Received Friday, November 14, 2008. - Perspective & Opinion
Planning to fire nanny today -- please help with last-minute advice!!!
We hired a nanny for our toddler son in September. I work part-time and also drop off and pick up our older daughter from school, so nanny's duties pertain mainly to our son.
For the first 3 weeks, she was very good. After that, we started noticing little things such as not following our requested nap schedule (DS was falling asleep in my lap in the afternoon), she got noticeably defiant after I signed DS up for a music class and was even late to the first class (it's a 5-minute walk from our place), she volunteered to wash the kid's laundry (not part of our original agreement) but then started sneaking her own laundry into our house in her oversized tote bag, etc etc. I had to ask her twice to make sure DS naps in the afternoon after lunch. She finally started doing it, but I think was annoyed because she preferred to be out all day instead of in the house.
The gist is we feel she's cunning and is just trying to get whatever she can from us. We pay her a very competitive salary, provide her with a subway pass, have an open kitchen policy, generous paid holidays and vacation etc. and she still wants more. She feels entitled to do her laundry, even though we have asked her not to run the dishwasher or the washer without full loads because it's wasteful. She continues to run these miniscule loads of laundry with just her things because she can only sneak in so much in her bag... The issue is not that she's washing, but that after only a few weeks on the job, took it upon herself that she could just do her laundry in our home without asking. She also pushes us to go out on dates so she can earn extra income. She asks me several times per week if we're going out on Friday and it's a bit much. She also doesn't want to leave and come back if we do go out, but I get home just after 3pm, so why would I pay her for the three hours I'm home? She also refuses our requests to go out on Saturday evenings because she knows it's more money if she just stays on Fridays...
Anyway, there are several more little, petty things that have occurred over the past several weeks, so we have decided that we just can't trust this nanny and are planning to fire her today. We are going to pay her for the week, but I am struggling with guilt because she has 2 kids of her own and is a single mother. I know for a fact that I have to fire her, but my question is should I give her any severance? My gut is saying "no way" since I now have to pay an agency to find another sitter in short-order, plus it is her own fault for behaving in such a manner. Looking for others' perspective here.
Thanks!
33 comments:
You never said how she was with your children? And I am confused. Is the issue with her doing laundry or her only doing small loads of it? Yes, I think you do owe her a least two weeks of severence pay. Did she come out and tell you that she wanted you to go out because she wanted more money? Do you have a contract with her? I think it is horrible that you are just going to spring it on her that she is fired, especially with this economy. If you are planning on not giving her any severence money, then at least give her two weeks notice so that she can find another job and support her kids, as you pointed out that she is a single mom!
I agree! Give her some notice. Have you tried to talk to her about these issues yet? She may not know that it has been a problem for you.
As far as the laundry is concerned - just confront her about it. Maybe she has more financial issues than you think, and she has limited options to do her laundry. I don't agree that it was ok for her to sneak it in, but if you confront her and give her the option to come clean it would be more fair.
I do have to say that you should always trust your gut. It makes me uneasy that you said "I had to ask her twice to make sure DS naps in the afternoon after lunch. She finally started doing it, but I think was annoyed because she preferred to be out all day instead of in the house." I have to wonder what is she doing outside of the house???????? No issue with going out, but all day with a 2 year old? Where is she going?
That being said, trust your gut. But give her severance pay or at least a couple weeks to find a new job.
Good luck!
You should wait on firing her. I would take a dump in the washing machine so that next time she goes to do her laundry they will smell like shit. What a shitty situation!
She's not a good fit and no, she really isn't entiteld to severance because most jobs won't give any sort of benefits package until you have been there at least 90 days.
I don't think talking ot her will help, she doesn't sound professional.
Also doing laundry in someone's home without permission is not nice and unprofessional. That said...
It is three weeks before Thanksgiving and the start of the holiday season, you are firing her without notice. If you can afford it, a week or two's severance would be very nice and generous of you. You don't HAVE to give it and she is not entiled to it but it would be an extremely nice gesture on your part.
Good luck!
I feel differently. OP has said nanny is "cunning".. that means she's doing things she knows she isn't supposed to be doing.
I wouldn't want someone like that caring for my child!
However, if she's otherwise done a good job with your child (I wonder how you could know for sure?).. I would give her 2 weeks pay (because she's a single mom and it's harsh out there) and let her go.. why should you have to be penalized financially because she feels entitled?
I agree with metro and park slope. I would give her 2 wks., but only because she is a single mom - although that isn't your problem - and like metronanny said, it is the holidays and you would feel like a heel. This will make you feel better.
OP also said there were several petty things. I am wondering how much this woman makes that she is offering to constantly work more to earn more? And yes, I do think the woman is entitled to something, either more time working to be able to find a new job or monetary compensation for not being able to line something up! That is just common courtesy! How would you feel if your nanny up and quit on you suddenly?? You probably wouldnt appreciate it and then you would probably be the kind to come on here bitching that your nanny quit without giving any notice!
Letitsnow
I don't think OP would because she's already inconveniencing herself, and it will probably cost a fortune to go to an agency last minute.
noticeably defiant? what do you mean by that? did she cop an attitude?? that's definitely disrespectful and she needs to be shown the door pronto. slap a $20 in her hand for a cab and say adios.
I just think that this doesn't sound like that bad of a nanny, but thats probably because the OP doesnt go into great detail on anything aside from the laundry and child's nap. It sounds like things could be easily solved if she just sat the nanny down, and told her what she expects! I just think giving someone that days notice is just unprofessional.
OP, if you can afford it at all, please give her severance money and be generous, even if you are really unhappy with her. If only for good karma.
Its not your fault that shes doing things behind your back. I don't think you should feel guilty about not giving her severance pay.
You asked her not to do her laundry in your house and she is still sneaking in small amounts. I wouldn't just be worried about small amounts of laundry. I would be worried about what she might be bringing in your house with that laundry.
No lie, I know someone that was living in the city. And her mother would tell her don't bring your laundry to my house. Go to the laundry mats. I am worried about bugs. Well sure enough this person didn't listen, and still snuck laundry when she would visit her mom. Small amounts too. Well her mom ended up with a roach problem. And had to get the exterminators in.
And I agree with what Jenna said. Why does she want to be out of the house all day? Is she taking care of her own children then? Does she have a boyfriend she is hanging out with. Is she bringing the baby to her house?
Take care
wish you the best in whatever you decide.
If you feel bad because she has two kids, give her a few days pay.
well!!
I am looking for a job if you fired her, call me!!
I promise I won`t do the laundry!!!
lol!!!!!
Holy crap, ericsmom! The same thing happened to me! I had a friend come from out of town and she was staying at a nearby Hotel. She asked to wash a load of clothes.. I thought, no big deal. I swear to God, as soon as she pulled her clothes out of the bags, roaches ran out!! I started stomping like you wouldn't believe! Thank God I got them all, but I had to tell her to leave immediately and go to a laundromat to do her clothes.
I can handle just about anything in the world BUT roaches. They give me the heebie-geebies!
OP-
Your nanny sounds shady. I don't think she needs severance pay. I wouldn't give it to her. I'm all for good Karma but it sounds like she has already been skimming from the top.
No, you do not owe her severance if firing for cause, especially given her limited employement. Of course, if you have the resources it would be kind to give her a week's pay, but she is certainly not entitled to it. I disagree with some earlier posters that OP is "horrible" or unkind because she is firing a bad employee. The nanny is caring for her children - of course she should fire her if she is doing a bad job and is dishonest. And it is standard policy NOT to give notice when firing ANY employee. You do not want a fired nanny caring for your children for one minute, let alone one week.
That aside, there a couple of confusing issues with this post. How can a nanny repeatedly make you feel pressured to go out on a Friday night? Just state what days you wish to go out and tell her "No" if you don't want to go out on a day she asks about. If she asks in a way that makes you feel uncomfortable, directly tell her that you will *never* be able to give her extra hours on a Friday and be done with it.
Also, I don't understand the agency comment. Did you hire this nanny via an agency? If so, they should have a policy of re matching you with a new nanny if one does not work out, as part of the original placement fee. If not, why do you feel you will have to use an agency this time? I don't believe your current nanny's severance or lack thereof should be affected in any way by your costs of finding a replacement (though I still don't feel she is entiteld to severance if firing for cause).
Fire her. She sounds shady.
As a nanny you need to inspire trust with the people you work with. Sneaking in laundry, emphasis on sneaky is not trustworthiness.
I would fire her immediately, give her maybe one extra week.
As a parent you are without doubt entitled to set the rules and limits, after all it is your child. If the nanny does not want to adhere to these rules, she should leave the job.
I am a nanny and I always do what the parents say within reason. For if I disagree, I speak with the parents in an amicable manner and we all come to mutual agreements.
I dont push for overtime, in fact I want them to come home early. Nannying can be hard sometimes. If I am asked to do overtime, its therefore my decision to say yes or no.
As for the other little things she has done, you have to go with your gut feelings. It is your house, and most importantly your child. Do what feels right to you, but also what is morally right.
Whether she is a single parent or not cannot be the issue. THe only issue is your displeasure with the nanny and her doings.
Being a single mom does not get you special treatment!
Hmm, OP what did you do? I would say that she is basically just a bad fit for your family, at least her shortcomings have not been spectacular enough to show her the door without a penny, BUT I'd keep the severance minimal. And yes, shouldn't the agency have a window for replacing an employee that didn't work out? Also, I have to ask, if she was "sneaking" laundry in in her purse, how do you know she was bringing it in? Wouldn't you have to search her purse?
It is probably too ate for this now-- given it is already 8pm on WEST coast time, but is IS food for thought. Here is goes. I am a planner (and a pleaser) to a fault. Therefore, I ALWAYS ask people about plans as far in advance as I can. For example, just today, I alsed a mother about plans for the first week in December. Two weeks ago, I asked her about the first Saturday in December, if they would need me or not. From your nanny's perspective, or perhaps EX nanny's, mabe SHE wants to please you by seeming ready and willing to work on a Fri night... OR she needs to plan for her own kids. Just a thought. As for the naps.. n=bad, yes. But be thankful she WANTS to spend time with your awake child... instead of sitting on her arse letting him nap as long as possible. The music class... maybe an accident?
ALL that being said, trust your gut. But please, it is almost Christmas... give her something. If you don't thinks she deserves it, perhaps think of it as giving it to her children?
Good Luck :P
I would go with your gut. She seems like she is not trustworthy, which in this business is a must. If I were you, I would not want her in my home after giving her notice based on her behavior while employed. I would cut my losses, terminate her employment, get back your housekey, as a professional, give her at least one week's severence and say goodbye.
Op, I understand your misgivings about your nanny. If she is good to your children and you are secure in your feelings that she always keeps your children safe while you are not home, then maybe a one-on-one talk could iron out some of these issues. Maybe she just dosen't realize how much these things bother you. Try to see if you can work it out. It might be worth the effort if your children truly adore her.
If she has a bad attitude or refuses to compromise, then yes you should just fire her. The fact that she is being "sneaky" may be a personality characteristic that may someday manifest itself in other ways.
I would maybe give only a week's severence pay, but w/her being a single mom and it being so close to the holidays, if you can afford more, that would be great. It is up to you though.
OP
Please give us an update on how things went, and what you decided to do!
Sounds like someone I would not want as an employee. She has regularly disregarded specific instructions about your child (naps), is washing/drying/folding her own laundry regularly in your home on your time, and without asking permission, has made it known that she doesn't agree with your choices for your child (music class) and has done other things that she isn't supposed to (is cunning). Where's the hesitation to get rid of her? Any money that you decide to give to her as she departs is a kind thing to do and is up to you and your own judgment.
It sure sounds like she has been taking major advantage of you and has been trying to run the show. It hardly seems worthwhile to keep her and she doesn't deserve additional pay, but it would be nice to give her some.
OP Update: We sat down with our nanny and explained that we feel we cannot trust her because of her various actions and therefore could not have her working in our home or with our children. She said she understood and apologized for doing these things. She did not ask to keep her job, but asked us for forgiveness, which we gave.
She agreed when we hired her that the most important things in the nanny-family relationship are communication and trust. She was great for the first few weeks and then these odd and sneaky things started happening. She seemed fine with our son, but we got the impression that she was more interested in meeting up with her other nanny friends than she was with our son's schedule and well-being. Our son cannot yet talk, and after almost 2 months he still didn't go to her, but we figured that was because we were there. The bottom line is we don't really know what went on when we weren't around, which is why trust is so important!
I cannot answer all the questions some of you had, but suffice it to say, she knew full well what we were talking about when we said she breached our trust. We gave her extra money, as we have every week since she's worked with us, but nothing near a full week's pay. It was a stretch for us to afford her salary, but we made the sacrifice so our child could have good care. In return for offering her a very good job where she would always be treated with respect, we got slapped in the face.
I was anxious before we sat down with her, but now I feel relieved, so I know in my heart we made the right decision. We did not feel as though we could address the things she was doing and continue working with her because calling out someone's sneakiness only makes them sneakier...it's a character issue, not a work style issue.
Thanks for your feedback!
Miserly bastard
"She's quite clearly in the "trial period" of her employment, and with such little mileage, I think you owe her nothing."
You are hilarious! ..."with such little mileage"?? ...do you think of your wife as a concubine? hee-hee.
If you fire her for cause then she is not entitled to severance. But that still doesn't alleviate any sort of guilt that you may or may not have with not providing any severance. I've been through it before and it's not fun. We gave an ex nanny 2 weeks pay even though it was for cause and she happily cashed the check. When it was safely in her account, she then ripped into me for not giving her more notice and how it was unfair to her, etc. As a parent, you don't want someone you want to fire watching your child after you've let them go.
Anonymous said...
Sometimes as a nanny we have extra clothing that we change into during the working day so we dont ruin our stuff that we came to work in. I would throw those in on laundry day (now I wonder what my boss may think if she see's them?) Also we try to go the extra mile most of the times by making sure there are no dirty dishes in the dishwasher, thinking this is what they will like. Sometimes we really dont know what to do! I also have 2 small kids at home and need to know way in advance if I will be working late so that I can make sure someone is there to take care of them. I will let them ask me first though, and if it wasnt enough notice just say 'sorry I cant do it'. Its hard out there especially for a single mom and I think if this was all she did you should have sat down and discuss this with her.Most nanny's and employers' dont see eye to eye at first but after a few weeks things get better. I hope you didnt miss out on a wonderful nanny, they are so hard to come by....
2:59 PM
RE-POST FOR ANONYMOUS!
PICK A MONIKER!
Okay, sorry but right away I am suspicious of anyone who lists having an open kitchen policy as a benefit.
You say you pay her so well, then why does she need extra babysitting income? Wouldn't she rather be home with her own children?
Why shouldn't she work Friday instead of Saturday, if she is already there. She is trying to make money in an honest, hardworking manner. Do you not want to help her out if she needs the income?
Of course you should pay her the three hours you are home! You want her to leave and come back?
One last thing - the napping! You want her to force the child to sleep at a certain time? I understand not wanting the child to sleep past a certain time because it may keep him up too late. But how can you expect the nanny to control the napping schedule so exactly? At my current job, the two year old sleeps at all different naptimes, if at all!
By the way, it IS nice to be out of the house in the afternoon sometimes too!
The only thing I would agree on is the laundry. That's pretty tacky of her. I think her washer and dryer must not have very nice settings. But I do think she is in the wrong with that issue.
This is why I will never again work for a family that can barely afford me. It just doesn't work out.
Post a Comment