Monday

How In-depth Should Nanny Go Explaining In-Vitro?

OPINION
I am starting a new Nanny position with a great family in about a week. I also will be starting an In Vitro Fertilization cycle around the same time. My question - how descriptive do I need to be in explaining why I may need to be a couple minutes late here and there for doctor's appointments? - Anonymous

345 comments:

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missmary said...

I'd probably not tell tell them anything. Nobody wants to hire a nanny who's getting knocked up!

♥ Amy Darling ♥ said...

Yikes OP!

Honestly, if you are going to be a few minutes late here and there due to your Dr. appointments, you probably won't last too long in this new position.

Punctuality is very important in any job and by being late on a constant basis, your bosses just may can you early on.

Well look at the silver lining here....at least you won't have to disclose to them why.

Taleia said...

I hate to say this, but I agree with both of the posters above. :( Wrong or right, I imagine it'll take a very special employer who wants to 1) knowingly hire someone who intends to get pregnant imminently and 2) who will knowingly tolerate frequent tardiness. The only option I see is to be completely up-front with them about your plans, and take your chances.

Taleia said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Not Buying It said...

Its irresponsible to be late "here and there" regardless of the reason.

But I smell fish.

Wednesday said...

Being a nanny is about being reliable, on time and there right when they need you.

Before I start a job I try to tell them about any days that I can think of that I may not be available like for doctors appointments or going out of town. So I guess try to make your appointments around their schedule.

SeattleNanny said...

Have you thought about how your bosses will take the news? I am a nanny who unexpectedly got pregnant a little over a month after being hired. I just told my bosses last night (i am 12 weeks along) and they were amazing and offered to let me bring my baby (my ideal situation). However, I am well aware this is not the typical reaction. I know nannies who have lost their jobs or been let go after their 2nd trimester because their employers are either unhappy that they have a pregnant nanny or are worried about the energy their nanny will have in 3rd trimester.

I guess my point is, life happens, and it is wonderful that you are taking the step to have your own child, but I would recommend being upfront with employers about the fact that you are trying so that you can be sure that you will be supported. It was really stressful for me in my first trimester having no idea if I was about to lose my job.

infertilenanny said...

I'm in a similar boat but luckily one of the parents works from home so is able to be flexible on start and end times, if the family your working for is not then this job isn't for you. IVF is very time consuming and you need a flexible position in order to be able to make your appointments. I would ask if changing the schedule half an hour on certain days was an option. I haven't told the family I work for that we are doing fertility treatments because frankly I've been trying to get pregnant for 15 months and fertility treatments can have really low success rates and if it's another year until I'm pregnant I might as well be working during that time.

MissMannah said...

I would say, do not tell them. If you know you will be late quite often due to appointments, I agree with the PP who said try to rearrange your schedule so you can come in late on a specific day each week. I'm in the same boat as you (though I'm not doing IVF...yet) and I only work 4 days a week so my appts are always scheduled for my day off. If you can't make a similar arrangement, like if you work full time and your boss-parents need you there early everyday, you might have to rethink this position. Just tell them you have a lot of mandatory doctor's appts, which is exactly what I've told my boss. It is none of their business what you're doing at the doctor.

Side note, I wish you luck with IVF, and same to you, Infertile Nanny. Lots of baby dust coming your way! And congratulations to Seattle Nanny!

Also, just thought of something else...do you know exactly what you want to do when you get pregnant? That is something you and your significant other should decide now instead of later. I thought maybe I would want to bring my baby to work, but thought long and hard about it and decided I would rather be a SAHM. So I'm going to put in my notice pretty much as soon as I find out I'm pregnant.

bad news spreader said...

1/3 of all pregnancies end in misscarriage. Id wait until month four before I quit.

curious said...

If you want to be a mother and can't naturally why not adopt?

Penny said...

OP, this is a very brave post and I applaud you! To share your story shows nannies are people too with hopes & dreams that matter too. I mean we nannies spend our LIVES raising other people's children & caring for families why wouldn't you want the same for yourself! I have a great deal of empathy for you & your journey to parenthood. It's not easy and damn frustrating at times. I too am trying to get pregnant and it's a frightening thought what to say to your bosses. So after much thought & careful strategy I will not tell my bosses until I am in my second trimester of pregnancy when I am actually pregnant. For me & my husband this is the less stressful measure for my family. And in all honesty it's nobody's business what I go to the doctor for or what my reproductive plans are. Think of it this way if you worked in an office it would be crude to even ask or give that info. Let's face it everybody's job is high responsibility and demanding so you are allowed your privacy regardless of your profession.

My suggestion would be to keep mum about your reproductive plans and if they ask why you are going to the doctor so much I would say "with all do respect I would prefer not to discuss my doctor visits but please let me reasure you it will not affect my work or distract me so I hope you can respect my need for privacy on the matter."

OP I wish you all the best of luck and health on your IVF journey. Try to stay positive and I too am sending you happy pregnancy dust your way. May you have a happy and healthy pregnancy too!

And Mannah love your post and agree on all points!

baby dust to my isyn friends said...

When I was pregnant, I had to quit working. My very first pregnancy, I barely felt it, but lost the baby. The next pregnancy I would throw up with almost no warning. The third I was fine, but I lost the baby at the start of month four. The fourth I had a migraine that lasted the whole time, so I had to quit working. I went back to work but my child caught RSV & I again had to quit bc he was in the hospital for a month & was too weak to be around other kids once he was released. I guess pregnancy & working don't always mix, lol. I was a sahm but decided to work a while. I am paying off a debt & growing some more savings before we get pregnant again bc I know I probably won't be working. But I will if I can. We would like to have two more kids before we get too old. Our oldest is 18 years old. Baby dust for those soon to be mommas. Never give up hope. Sometimes the journey to motherhood isn't quite how we planned. But in the end, its worth it. <3

Wednesday said...

It's also natural to want a child that has that biological connection to you.

There's nothing wrong with exploring all options before pursuing adoption. That happens a lot.

Just because a doctor has to help you get pregnant doesn't mean the pregnancy is any less natural. It's still egg+sperm. Doesn't matter how it happens as long as it happens.

curious said...

If you need to take drugs or have your child conceived in a petri dish that isn't getting pregnant naturally. I didn't say that the pregnancy is any less natural. I said getting pregnant naturally as in without the help of a doctor or medication. I don't see how this is anything to be ashamed of. No need to defend it.

Lyn said...

Two things:
1) I am apparently a dirty person because whenever I read "baby dust" on this thread I just thought of dried semen. And giggled.

2) I think everyone by now knows what a huge part of my life the adoption process is (read: my ENTIRE life, haha). But I have to say; while I am thrilled with my families decision on how to expand, adoption isn't for everyone. It takes a very particular kind of person to *know* that they will have that same birth connection with a child who isn't born to her. It's also a very natural normal desire to want to "feel" pregnant. To want to "be" pregnant. To have that sort of immediate connection to someone who will be with your family forever.

I don't believe their is any wrong way to grow your family. A family is made whole by love, not by test tubes, sperm or paperwork. And thankfully we live in a place where these decision aren't made for us, they're made by us.

Now, I also have to add that choosing IVF may have reasons other than "biological need to reproduce". The cost of adoption is outrageous. An international adoption won't cost you less than 40 grand (higher if you have special circumstances that need to be taken into consideration, such as age or location of adoption or preference on sex).
A domestic adoption seems like a good choice, but the cost is still around 25 grand if you go through an agency and have any sort of genetic testing done (which is required for most domestic adoptions by state laws). And sadly, in almost every case of domestic adoption you have to deal with knowing that the birth mother was drinking, smoking, doing drugs during her pregnancy. When my Hubs and I were exploring this option for ourselves the 3 agencies we went to all said it wasn't a matter of "if" the birth mother was, it was "how badly" the birth mother was. In other countries there are birth caps and preference over sex that contribute to the amount of children in orphanages.


It's a lot to decide. But you just have to do what feels right.

Melanie Raye Castor said...

I personally would not tell them why you were going to the doctor, but of course you need to do feels right for you.

Good luck with falling pregnant, I wish you all the best.

domestic adoption said...

Domestic adoption can be very low cost: www.adoptuskids.org

There are thousands of legally free to adopt children waiting for families. In some cases, the fees are waived.

Lyn said...

It's true that if you are interested in adopting an older (than 6) child the price drops dramatically.
You can be a foster parent too and adopt a child who is placed with you that way. Assuming of course that the child is "open" for adoption.

american adoption is dirty said...

Speaking of adoption. I would never adopt a newborn. I refuse to grow my family on the pain of another. The Amerian adoption industry is DIRTY & highly manipulative. Its turned into poor young women giving their babies to rich infertile couples. Problem is, nobody bothers to tell these poor young women they won't always be poor & they don't owe their baby to anyone. But their "matched" with a family before they've given birth. They're also given gifts-cell phone, laptop, expenses paid, etc. (This makes the mother feel obligatd to give up their baby) Having a couple at the birth is like having vultures surround the baby. Also, the mother is called "BIRTH mother" before she has given birth & gone through with the adoption. That's so manipulative-the decision can't be made until she has given birth-yet she is already being called a birth mother. They have NO one on their side to advocate for them. Just an adoption counselor who gets paid to seperate mother from child. Most of these adoption agencies are Utah based. They have local numbers that route to Utah. There is a very sneaky law in Utah, which requires the father to obtain a lawyer & put himself on the putative fathers registry within twenty days of being notified the mother(regardless of where she lives) will be in Utah. And Utah is very careful to make sure there is no information online on how for a father to file. And its the only state which requires a father to obtain a lawyer. No lawyer? No filing within twenty days? He loses his child forever. Adoption just begets more adoption. An adopted child is seven times more likely to give their own child up for adoption. And if you've ever wondered where "up for adoption" came from, its because children used to be placed up on boxes, for people to be able to see them. Hence the term "giving up a baby for adoption." American adoption is a dirty, dirty businessm

miss obvious said...

Its less expensive than fertility treatments.

Lyn said...

That depends how many treatments you need, your insurance,and other health factors. Adoption is rarely cheaper.

Lyn said...

This just makes me sad. Myths, social stigmas and misinformation on domestic adoption is rampant. It breaks my heart.

american adoption of newborns is dirty said...

I should state what I said applies to newborns only.


I think adopting a child is wonderful. Just not a newborn. You don't get the "clean slate" you hope for with a newborn. They often grow up feeling like they do not fit in & longing for their first family. Adoption often breaks the first mothers heart and she never ever recovers.
This is a topic I am obviously vry passionate about. So I had to speak up.

mom said...

It would've been MUCH cheaper for us to adopt throught adoptuskids.org than for us to have our daughter naturally. We paid $5,000 for her birth. $10,000 for her hospital stay. Another $3,000 for prental. And YES, we had insurance. Supposidly "good" insurance. Its only a couple thousand for MOST of those kids. You're adopting legally free kids through the county. One of the myths about adoption is that its extremely expensive. If you want to parent, you can adopt for a few thousand dollars.

free said...

Most adoptions are through adoptuskids.org are FREE or have have minimal costs which are reimbursable. Because these kids are in foster care & are legally free to be adopted. It says so right on their web site.

That's cheaper than most fertility treatments, for sure.

Lyn said...

I have been working towards our adoption for 3 years. We've met with 4 adoption agencies, had all the home studies and paperwork done and are FINALLY waiting on our "match".

Adoption is expensive. It can be very expensive. The cheapest ways to go about it are by adopting legally "free" children from a foster care match, or adopting an older (than 6) child domestically. If your age range is under 2 then you'll be paying no less than $15-18 grand for that child. And that's on the low end. Most new born adoption will ring in at around $25 grand.
You can also consider a special needs child and then be paying no more than $7 grand (after your agency and attorney fees) and have a much quicker placement. But it is absolutely NOT true that adopting a child will cost you just "a couple grand". I wish that were true. So many kids need loving families that just can't sink a 20 grand expense. And that's were fost-adopt comes into play. I wish more good loving homes opened themselves up for these placements!

Lyn said...

This is also untrue. Free to be adopted and free of cost are different things entirely. And the child over 6 (it may be 5 now, I'll check when I get in) are the most "affordable". Fortunately, if you adopt domestically you do receive a large tax break. So thank goodness they have done something to offset the expense. But you will never be able to adopt a child for free. Even if it's a relative signing over rights to their child to you themselves. You will STILL have several thousand in attorney fees to legalize the placement. It's heart breaking to me.

Lyn said...

Also, here is a link to a great average price chart from this year that has accurate information: http://www.theadoptionguide.com/cost/articles/how-much-does-adoption-cost I strongly encourage anyone interested in adoption to check out this site.

me said...



I pray whoever is pregnant that youve been "matched with" will have the resources and support she will need so that she can KEEP her own child. That would be the best case scenario.

Hmmm said...

I would NEVER be able to live with myself if I built my family on the pain of another. You should looking into what mothers who give their children up for adoption go through. Why not adopt a child who is waiting? You can no longer use money as an excuse.

http://adoptuskids.org/for-families/how-to-adopt/common-myths-about-adoption#money

Reality: You don’t need to own your own home, be wealthy, have children already, or be a stay-at-home parent to adopt. Most adoptions from U.S. foster care are free and any minimal costs associated with them are often reimbursable. In addition, there are many different types of post-adoption resources, such as medical assistance and financial adoption assistance, based on the special needs of a child to help support and sustain adoptions from the U.S. foster care system.

Lyn said...

Bottom line, there is NO wrong way to grow your family. Good luck OP and anyone else in the same boat as her or myself.

ugh said...

Growing your family on the pain of another.

What could be more wrong?

"There is no wrong way to grow a family" is another myth.

Along with the myth that God gives children to the wrong womb. @@

Good luck to the pregnant women & the fathers who have adoption agencies on them like white on rice trying to steal their child out from under them. Adoption breaks a mothers heart-forever. And the child is traumatized by being ripped from their first family. They KNOW when their real mother isn't holding them. From birth, its been proven. They long for their family. I would never be able to live with myself if I participated in any way to assist these dirty adoption agencies. They take pride in severing fathers rights, when the father wants the child!! And they manipulate the mother from the first contact. Telling her what a "wonderful" thing she is doing & showering her with gifts. Telling her how SAD & DEVISTATED the "parents" will be if they "lose the child!" When its the REAL mother who is losing a child. Adoption propaganda makes me ill.

How Sad For The Real Mothers & Fathers said...

That reminds me. If you look in your phone book (if u have them, lol) you'll see how these adoption agencies are. They all try to be first in the listings. Its all about $$$$. So pathetic.

You'll see, "Aaaan Angel Adoption Agency" "AAA Adoptions" "AAAA Family Adoptions" "AAA BETTER WAY ADOPTIONS" "AAABC Adoptions"

Its pretty telling.

good luck alright said...

You forgot about the pregnant mothers & the childrens fathers. You forgot to wish them good luck. Don't you want them to be able to stay together? Don't you wish the best for them, too? Don't you want them to be able to stay together?


I guess that would empede your goal.

thats pathetic said...

$15-25K for a child under two? Bullshit. Adoptuskids.org has NO kids that cost that much to adopt. Lies. I think you're trying to justify why you're ripping a newborn away from his or her mother.

I agree that american newborn adoptions are evil said...

Have you taken the time to look into what it means to adopt a newborn I the USA? I wouldn't pay a penny to these adoption agencies that sell newborns. If your child wasn't kidnapped from its father, you've funded the kidnapping of someone elses child. You would know this if you cared about where the children come from.

hmmmm said...

ALL of the children on adoptuskids.org ARE in foster care & legally fee for adoption.

You act like its hard to find.

hmmm said...

100% of the kids on adoptuskids.org ARE IN foster care & are LEGALLY free to be adopted. You act like that's a hard thing to find.

Bethany is the Worst offender said...

Ohhhhh that reminds me of that adoption show. They would flash "5 weeks until ADOPTION" accross the screen. That's propaganda. Its "5 weeks until the BIRTH, NOT the possible adoption. That further perpatrates two lies:

1.)The mother automatically WILL go through with the adoption. She hasn't given birth or met her child. How could she know yet? She isn't sure yet. So the language is HIGHLY inappropriate.

2.)The adoption is made & final before or at birth. Don't remind the mother she has the right to change her mind.

Dr. Juris said...

I know people who were adopted at birth and they didn't suffer pain of being "jerked" from their original family. This is an absolutely ridiculous and over-broad generalization that is SICK. Plenty of young women WANT to give up their children for adoption because they are not ready to be mothers, and for you to assert that these children would be better off with someone who doesn't want them is abhorrent to me. Just like anything, there are rotten apples that may get involved in adoption. But there are plenty of wonderful people involved in the adoption process, and plenty of women who were glad to have these resources available when making this difficult decision.

Sarah said...

You guys who think adoption is evil need to watch the 16 and Pregnant Catelynn episodes. She knew she couldn't provide a good home for her child and because she knew her child deserved the best, gave her to a wonderful couple who were able to love her and provide her with a safe, happy home.

teen mom fan said...

Ugh, I saw the adoption show on oxygen. Women who have given children up for adoption were busy on the message boards talking about how Bethany Christian Services is the leader in adoption propaganda. They used Caitlin from teen mom & her boyfriend Tylers fears of parenting to get little Carlie from them. Now they use Caitlin to recruit young mothers into adoption. She is being paid to promote Bethany and adoption. They've feed Caitlyn & Tyler with just enough bs to get them to perpetuate the lies,"If we had kept her, we would've broke up. We wouldn't have graduated. She has a better life." Really? They don't know that. She is missing out on her real family, based on fears and worst case senario.

yet another myth said...

That's another myth. Thank you for reminding me!! These mothers DO want their children. Same myth applies to abortion. These are not unwanted children.

nycmom said...

What an odd crusade this anti-adoption poster is on! I can only assume there is a strong personal backstory and express my empathy for whatever you have suffered.

Yes, there are shady adoptions and bad adoption agencies, but they are not the norm. Most domestic adoptions are open now and the birth mom has some period of time, which varies by state, to change her mind after birth. No one is "ripping a newborn away from his/her mother." If it is important to the birth mom, she can also negotiate a contract that gives her ongoing updates on the child as part of the adoption agreement.

As someone who does these consults in the hospital, I can tell you the many birth moms I have met have not felt they were having their child taken against their will. They have felt guilt, anger, regret, sadness and many other normal emotions. But they very rarely change their mind. If they have any doubts about adoption, they can have the baby put in foster care, enter a program, and turn their life around. Then parent their child when they are prepared.

The bottomline is that some people get pregnant and do NOT want to be a parent to that child. That is a simple fact. Some pregnancies are unwanted and I applaud the women who have the strength to recognize they are not ready/able to be parents. It is patently ridiculous to state that ALL pregnant women secretly want to be a mom to the unborn baby, but give the child up for adoption solely due to lack of resources or education. If that were true, there would be very few or no abortions because these secretly longing women would simply keep their babies and find a way to raise them.

Do you know many adults adopted as infants? I do and not a single one pines away for their birth mother or wishes they had not been adopted. Certainly there are psychological and emotional issues which the adopted child will deal with as he/she grows up, and they may want contact with their biological parents for a variety of reasons. But that does not mean the adoption was inherently wrong or exploitative. I think trying to paint adoptive parents as evil, opportunistic thieves is shameful.

hmmm said...

Well said teen mom fan.

Ha omg said...

Mothers are not forced to give up their babies. They chose the adoption route no one told them they had to give away their children. You people sound so ignorant. Who wants a borderline ptsd 6 year old?

Not me.

Lyn said...

This will be my last comment. I realize I don't have the ability to change your mind on the adoption process. Everyone has different thoughts and beliefs and that's totally okay. It's part of what makes life interesting.

I have had 1 failed domestic adoption. My Husband and I were matched with a birth mother who read over our profile and loved us. She wanted an open adoption, which is something that was important to us as well, as we have a strong desire for our children to know where they came from and how we made the journey to each other. We kept our lips tight, sharing only with very close family and friends until we could take our sweet baby home. We drove to OH for the birth and we never even got the chance to hold the baby. The child's mother changed her mind. And we wept. It was the most painful night of my life. But as heart broken as I was, I am thankful that the child's mother held her and was able to reassess her situation. I am thankful that the sweet little girl will grow up knowing and loving her Mom as her Mom. I wish nothing but the best for the parents, the child and EVERY aspect of their future together.

I will not try to convince you that their are good, kind loving men and women who want nothing more than to adopt and love those children in ways you cannot imagine. Many of them, myself included, already love their children as though they have them. I pray for my kids each and every day. I pray for their birth mothers, I pray for their fathers, I pray for their health, I pray for their happiness and I pray that our journey to each other will be bump free. I truly love them like I already have them. I know that may sound crazy to you, but I have dreamed about them for as long as I've had dreams. To imply that an adoptive mother is any less of a mom than someone who physically pushes the child out is uncalled for and untrue.

On another note: I am sorry for your negative experience with the adoption process. Truly and deeply sorry. It brings tears to my eyes as I type this because I know that giving up your child is the most selfless and loving thing you can do if it is what is best for your situation. I hope that somewhere down the road your heart softens and you are able to see all of the good things adoption and those involved with it (from the birth mom to the agencies to the child her/his self) are able to do.

There is good and bad in every aspect of life. Of course there are agencies who are dishonest and pressure the birth mothers, clearly, we did not use one of them. And I am thankful that was not our situation.

Additionally, as many of you know, my sweet Husband and I have completed all of our paperwork and home studies and are to be matched with a child again by Christmas of NEXT year (assuming all goes well).

shrug said...

Thank u NYMOM for reminding me of yet another MYTH the adoption agencies spread to recruit more women into giving up their babies. The OPEN adoption myth.

Are first mothers promised contact? Photos? Updates? Sure. All the time. And once the adoption is finalized many of these adoptions will become CLOSED. Thre are thousands of horror stories online if you care. But I know you don't want to know the truth. Only two, just two states legally enforce open adoption.



And are you unaware of the PAIN an adopted child goes through when they get to witness their siblings growing up with their mother? Always being the one she gave away? You think open adoption makes adoption less painful????? More propaganda.

wake up said...

So you're prepetuating the open adoption myth in your profession. Oh my god!!!! DoesNYC enforce open adoption agreements????? I dont think so. Modern adoption in our country is highly corrupt & women are often manipulated into it. To say they rarely change their minds is bs.

ugh said...

Had the mother in OH had a "better" adoption agent, she would've been able to seperatte the mother & child. That's her job. What she is paid to do.

That was never your child. If you cared about the mother you would reliaze her giving up her child would've been the worst day of her life.

Its so selfish to be waiting for someone elses child. Yuck.m I hope this mother is able to keep her child. I hope the father isn't tricked out of his rights. So many newborns are being kidnapped-legally. One quick look @ an adoption web site a second ago & it says you can live away from family & friends who may want to influence you-WOW!!!!! Isolate the mother so u have a higher chance of getting her baby. Lovely tactic! God forbid she receive family & friends support & decide to keep her child..then what $$$$ would be made? Dirty business.

dirrty said...

Lyn....if all goes well? What does that mean? If a mother isn't able to keep her child? That sounds awful. I bet you buy the myth that these are unwanted babies. Very very rarely does a mother have an unwanted child. Aborted babies are also very rarely unwanted. Unplanned does not mean unwanted.

The lies people believe. It doesn't take much digging to uncover the dirty business of modern adoption of newborns in our country.

Farrah said...

I was adopted as an infant and it was a closed adoption so I will NEVER be able to find my biological parents. It also was an international adoption (Korea to U.S.)

It is unfair that because I was adopted, I have no medical knowledge to fall back on. When a Dr. asks me about my family background and I respond I was adopted, he always puts a long line through my chart in the family history section which is so humiliating to me.

I also have no identity since when I look in the mirror it freaks me out because I have no idea what my parents look like.

I know adoption is socially acceptable in the U.S., but I will never forgive my biological parents for thrusting me into this type of life with no choice whatsoever.

If I ever need a bone marrow transplant, I will probably just die.

Utah said...

So many women who have given babies up for adoption will have another baby right after & keep it. A sign of regret & wanting to make it right. Please stop buying the propaganda. These adoption agencies are in it for the money. They use Utah laws to legally steal babies away from their fathers.

Dr. Juris said...

This is sick. Seventeen monikers (same person) doesn't make it true.

hugs for farrah said...

Farrah, I believe the US adoption industry is SICKNING!!!!!!! If I have a baby & am manipulated into adoption, here in California the baby will receive a birth certificate that lists the adoptive mother as the birth mother!!! Effectively erasing the childs true past & that is LYING about their medical information. It is disgusting what is done. And I am so sorry for you. It goes to prove.....you can not erase a childs past no matter how hard you try!!!!!! (((((Hugs)))))))

make that 18 said...

Why don't you use google??????? It verifys every single thing I've said. You buy the lies. I don't. I research & think for myself. It doesn't take much to uncover the dirty secrets of american newborn adoption. The manipulative tacticts-the manipulative language & gifts. Using an obsecure Utah law to trick fathers into losing their children. Shocking none of that bothers you.

nycmom said...

shrug,

Since this is obviously a very personal and painful topic for you, I have no doubt you are up-to-the-minute on the latest legal issues more than I am. I have researched this several times for cases, but the last was last year. At that time, a lot more than two states had legally enforceable OA agreements, with varying provisions, but did require these agreements be submitted to the court during the adoption process, not just created separately.

I would suggest any birth and adoptive parents for whom this is a significant issue should choose to give birth and adopt in a state that meets their needs.

Perhaps you could explain in more detail why you feel women have abortions? Why do you feel women choose adoption? Do you think every single women then regrets it? How do you feel about international adoption of infants -- do you think that process is more respectful of birth parents and less exploitative of class/poverty?

I have no desire to be uninformed so I appreciate you enlightening me in a constructive manner. If you have references to reputable studies about the damages of adoption vs staying with an unfit/unwanting birth mom, that would also be quite interesting and helpful.

obsecure UT law said...

You think adopting a newborn means a clean slate & no issues. More propaganda. The adopted child will always have issues and feel rejected by their birth parents on some level. Mothers are sometimes forced. Don't be niave. but more often they are manipulated. The fathers are more often forced. Look into these agencies. They have local nu?bers but route to UT. Because in UT it is VERY easy to legally take a child from its father, forever. By the use of a very obsecure law. Requiring the father to obtain a lawyer & file papers within 20 days of being informed the mother will be in Utah. Its the only state requring a fatherf obtain a lawyer. Its. Obviously done bc tghat means more $$$$ and more babies for the agency.

nycmom said...

I don't think anyone believes adoption means a clean slate and no issues. I don't think anyone believes or wrote that the adoption industry is squeaky clean. I accept your premise that UT laws are unfair to fathers (which I assume you are).

Now could you please address the questions I asked above so we can have a meaningful, educational discussion rather than a soapbox?

nycmom said...

It is clear you are not capable or desirous of having an actual discussion. You just wanted an outlet for your frustrations and I hope this has sufficed.

I have had BMs directly tell me they do not want to be a parent to their newborn and that they are not fit to do so, usually due to active drug dependence.

As you kindly suggested, I did google and here is the link I found supporting that OA agreements, when done properly are enforceable in more than two states:

http://www.childwelfare.gov/systemwide/laws_policies/statutes/cooperative.pdf#Page=2&view=XYZ

Regardless, I have a rule of not continuing to engage with someone who is not capable or interested in a respectful, educated exchange of ideas. Since you have proven yourself such, I am done, and I hope you find a better forum for the support you need.

caring mom said...

You might want to get things straight before we talk. Adoption isn't painful. I have nothing to do with adoption. I've never had one. I considered adopting but I refuse to build my family on the pain of another. I have children with my husband. I'm married. I'm not a father. Hhow sad hyou assume caring about fathers rights means I must be a man. @@ and no, my husband has nothing to do with adoption either. All of our kids are together. Gasp! What did u want to know? I'm cooking. One question @ a time.

caring mom said...

Okay nyc...you stick with what's real in your mind. Even if its extrememly off base. You have that right and that is your choice. Have a lovely day. :)

caring mom said...

@ha omg.....actually if you're Mormon, if you keep your child he or she will not get into the highest level of heaven. Only a Mormon family sealed in the temple can save your child from such fate. That's why Mormon adoptions are so popular. Forced? Maybe if you're the father. For mothers, its a hell of a lot of manipulation.

Dr. Juris said...

I agree with NYC. You're obviously suffering under some grand delusion that there is a huge conspiracy out there due to some experience in your past. There is no reasoning with you.

ny adoption facts said...

Open adoption agreements in NY are useless. If the adoptive parents decide its not good for the child and the judge agrees, its not enforceable. I doubt anyone shares this with the mother of the baby.

Future Nurse :) said...

Okay. Whew I have tried to take a deep breath before responding because I personally believe topics like this should be addressed in a productive, educated way.

That being said, I'm not sure how calm I can remain with you "changing moniker" or multiple people, or whoever you, they are.

This topic could be addressed without comments like:
"I pray whoever is pregnant that youve been "matched with" will have the resources and support she will need so that she can KEEP her own child"
"That was never your child. If you cared about the mother you would reliaze her giving up her child would've been the worst day of her life. "

NO. I'm sorry I don't care what I believe that is absolutely not acceptable to say to a woman who is actively seeking adoption. Personally I can think of some words I want to say to you but I will try to refrain. At least be sensitive to HER.

Next, I'm going to assume based on what "you or all of you" have said that you are pro-life. So you don't want a woman to have an abortion or give the child up for adoption. Okay well in magical fantasy land this will work. What about mom's who are addicted to crack and don't want to quit. What makes you think they will be a fit mother? That is exactly how babies end up dying alone in trash cans, because mothers didn't abort or place for adoption. It is fantasy to think that pregnancy will change ALL women. They will just magically decide hey, lets cook, clean, and care for the child instead of booze and drug out every day. What is your argument towards that? Those mothers aren't "unfit" because that is propaganda correct? So what does that make those mothers? Or the little girl whose father just shook her almost to death in SC? Was he qualified to be a "fit" parent? Not everyone is ready or willing to be a parent. I can see that saying "unfit" would be offensive for people like that, but whatever they case they choose not to parent this child. AND THEY FIND PARENTS WHO DO WANT TO PARENT. Every situation is different, every child grows up with a different perception of it, but for every "failure" in adoption, I believe there are 100 success stories.

too funny said...

If you have nothing intelligent to add, parrot someone else. Great strategy, Juris!! LOL

Dr. Juris said...

And if you don't have anyone that will back up your arguments, post under 20+ monikers to make it sound like someone does! Good job, Ms. Moniker.

caring mom said...

Future Nuse. Aren't we all pro-life? How can anyone not be for life? If you're asking how I vote, I vote pro-choice. Your assumptions about me were wrong.


I think its sick, absolutely sick to pray a mother will give you her child. If you're praying for a mother, you should obviously be praying for the best for her and her child. Praying she has the support & resources to parent. Anything less is selfish. And evil.

You can deny that adoption agencies in america are largely manipulative. you can pretend their single focus isn't separating child from mother. But I would disagree.

WTF said...

What the f**k?? Caring mom, I truly feel bad for you and whatever personal issues you're dealing with but to attack someone based on how they choose to create a family is truly sickening. I hope you get the therapy you clearly need.

make it 19 haha said...

Didn't I readily admit I was using multiple handles under make that 18? That was a long while ago. Its not like I made any effort to hide that fact. Did u have anything about the topic to add???????????

MissMannah said...

This thread makes me so sad. It is no coincidence that all these people against adoption all have anonymous usernames. Grow some balls and register your account, otherwise it is difficult to take you seriously.

While you're at it, turn off Fox News and stop reading the conspiracy websites.

As for whomever asked why we're doing fertility treatments instead of just adopting: I have thought it over many times. I want to be a biological and an adoptive mother. It is none of your business where my children come from, whether my uterus or another woman's.

caring mom said...

I don't watch fox. I've researched adoption online. If you care about other women you would care about what's going on in American adoption agencies. Roll your eyes. You're probabaly buying the propaganda. Adoption saves a poor child from the life of a single parent and poverty into the arms of a rich white couple. A win win for everyone! Not.Find a forum(obviously not on an adoption agencies site or on any anti adoptioon sites either) of women who have given up their children for adoption. Ask how many were manipulated.

lol said...

How is registering a name growing balls? Is your real name Miss Mannah? I didn't think it was. How very brave of u!!!

caring mom said...

So how much time have u spent researching adoption agencies? If you think 1/100 adoption stories are negative, I would give an educated guess that you've never bothered to look into it.

Not hiding behind my computer like a pussy said...

Dear Rapid Moniker Changer,

You are a total Fuckwad who should have been aborted or drowned at birth.

That is all.

XO
Nashville Nanny

LMaO said...

So you're not hiding behind a computer? Really? Are we face to face? Your real name is "not hiding behind my computer like a pussy?" That's amazing, really. I'm impressed. Totally impressed.

ericsmom said...

I feel sorry for a mom that has to give her child away. It must be the hardest choice in her life. Maybe she is not ready to be a mom. Or she doesn't have the family/financial support. Who is to judge. I think its very loving of the parent to want a better life for their child. Maybe, a better life than they had. I really don't know.

I don't understand why everyone is bashing Lyn. I don't personally know her. What I get out of it is that she can't have biological children. Of her own. How awesome of her to want to open her heart to a child that needs a home. I am sure whatever child enters their lives will be a blessing all around

MissMannah said...

No, my real name is Amanda but a lot of my charges have called me Miss Mannah. Thanks for playing.

Nashville, I do not approve of your message. Never lower yourself to the masses when you can rise above them.

Lyn said...

Just to clarify, not that it makes any difference, but neither my Husband or myself have any reason to believe we cannot have biological children. This is just what we feel lead to do. :) Thank you all for your kind comments!

Nashville Nanny said...

Mannah... you're right. What I meant to say was.... Your Mom should have swallowed.


Better?

:)

Aletheia said...

This sad excuse for a thread has left me feeling physically ill. The heartless, hateful attacks againt Lyn and others are the most vicious things I have ever read on this site. Obviously adoption has success stories as well as sadder tales. Let's not forget that the same is true for biological families!! I'm very sorry for the sad experiences that some have had with adoption, but that does not negate the fact that adoption can also be an incredible thing. As I said above, the same things can be true for biological families--families are complicated things no matter how they come to be. The specifics will vary of course, but biological does not necessarily equal happy. I know I'm opening myself up to be the next target with this comment, but I don't care. This needs to be said. I also want to say that I spent time working in a children's home overseas where we cared for infants until their parents could come to take them home. While I was there, one birth mother changed her mind and took her baby back. The others had every right and chance to do the same, but they didn't want to. Even at the final court date, right before the baby's adoptive parents would come to get their children, the birth parents could change their minds. They didn't. They knew what they wanted and what was best for their babies. There is so much more that I could say, but it doesn't appear that anything will be able to get through to someone who posts such hateful words, so I'll stop. My heart goes out to those who have been hurt today.

Caring mom said...

I'm reading www.exiledmothers.com

I wonder if anyone else here cares about these women and the pain adoption has brought into their lives.

I'm not in any way related to the web site.

"Adoption isn't about unwanted babies. Its about unwanted mothers."

The truth must be scary. I've been falsely accused of being a man, being a fox news watcher and being crazy. Such a strong reaction for something you know nothing about.

often but not always said...

What country? I know why they didn't change their minds before u even answer.

curious said...

Lyn has no class.

Dr. Juris said...

So what do you know about it? You've told us you read message boards about adoptive mothers. Have you experienced it? Have you adopted? If not, then you cannot sit there and tell others they know nothing about it while professing to know it all (and being on the same plane as the rest of us). Put up or shut up.

miss obvious said...

Farrah shares her pain and you guys ignore her. That's pretty sad.

Aletheia said...

I'm not comfortable telling you which country. I would be remiss to open anyone else up to your vitriol. There were multiple reasons why the birth parents chose not to keep the babies, each as unique as the individuals involved. There is no formula. You can't know the reasons simply by learning the name of the country. How arrogant.

Aletheia said...

We did not ignore her. Several of us expressed our sympathy. I didn't mention her by name, but I was addressing her as well as anyone else when I said that I was sorry for those who have been hurt.

caring mom said...

I never wanted to hurt the lady who is adopting. I am sorryif I hurt you.

Aletheia said...

That is not the case. No doubt, indeed.

lol @ alethia said...

Sure. I believe you.

Open Adoption said...

The mother who chooses open adoption is only allowed photos or contact in just 20% of cases. The other 80% are CLOSED once the adoption is final. Open adoption is used as a reason for a woman to give away her child. But its usually not honored.

ericsmom said...

Sorry Lyn!! That I jumped the gun thinking you couldn't conceive.

Aletheia said...

You don't have to believe something to make it true. Please take your nastiness elsewhere.

miss obvious said...

Aletheia okay u didn't ignore her. Sorry.

lol said...


Why don't you take your own advice?

Aletheia said...

No worries, miss obvious. I hope she doesn't feel that she was ignored. Her story is valid. Some people do have this experience with adoption, and it is very sad when that happens. I think the hate spewing from a certain poster did capture most of the attention on this thread, unfortunately.

Farrah, I hope that you find peace.

Aletheia said...

Explain to me where I have been nasty, and if you are accurate, I will apologize. However, I do not believe you will find such an example. I have been holding my tongue quite a lot on this thread.

I dont really want to be involved said...

I have to chim in here.com I signed papers to have a tubal ligation right after giving birth. The pregnancy was a very difficult one. I was very sick for all of it. The labor was extra hard bc it was induced. And it lasted for a day and a half. I felt everything. The epidurals did not work, neither one of them. So after this horrific birth I signed papers & had a tubal. Once my hormones got back to normal I regretted the decision. It makes me wonder how women are allowed to sign legal papers post delivery. Some hospitals don't allow a woman to sign for a year post birth for a tubal. My point is that women are in no mental shape right after having given birth to sign any legal document. Studies have even shown our mental capacity is diminished while pregnant & after delivery. It makes me feel compassion for the mothers.

miss obvious said...

Farrah, I hope you find peace, too. Sorry again for missing your post the first time

not nice not at all said...

just because you don't agree with someone it doesn't mean they are being nasty. Who r u to dictate who posts here and what they can say?

bella said...

Lyn, all my best to you. I hope everything works out the next time around for you and your beloved hubby.

Could you please tell me why it takes so long? You've completed all thats necessary so why do you have to wait until next Christmas? Are you getting a newborn? (if you already answered these questions, sorry!) Also, do you know the child you're getting yet? I believe you said the child was coming from China or Korea? Have you flown there yet to handle any business involved with this adoption?

I'm just super interested in your story, sorry if any of my questions are too personal!

bella said...

I'm so utterly, completely dumbfounded! DOZENS of anti-adoption comments, ALL under different anonymous monikers and everyone knows its all from ONE poster. I don't think I've EVER, EVER seen ONE poster use so many monikers in ONE thread to fight their cause or argue their stand. Its totally insane.

To the anonymous moniker maker-upper: you must've had something so tragic happen in your life to make you feel this way. You should share your story with everyone here so we can understand why you're doing this!

bella said...

One thing I think should be made into a law (and my empathy goes to Farrah here, hugs to you sweetheart!) but when a child is given up for adoption, a VERY detailed medical history of the mom AND dad (if possible) should be included ON or WITH the birth certificate. Its SO important a child has this information!

caring mom said...

Sorry to let u down bella but the only story I have is I considered adopting & changed my mind once I uncovered the manipulative, cooersive ways adoption agencies run. And how the UT law is used as a means to separate a child from its father. I'm sorry its not a very exciting story. I'm on bedrest so I have nothing to do but lay here. I never denied using multiple monikers. I've admitted it three times already. Bella, I doubt medical records will soon be added to birth certificates. Some babies have birth certificates that aren't even honest. It lists the adoptive mother as the birth mom. There is so much progress that needs to be made.

kitty said...

Honestly i feel every one against adoption has never had any seriouse tribulations. I am pro adoption because iv been in a similar situation. Im too young nd unfit to parent, and altho painful to think about it was the best option. Im still trying to get my life together and this happend a year ago. Everything was decided by me and my bf equally. And im happy i didnt ruin a childs life.

bella said...

Wow Kitty, my heart goes out to you! What a difficult and amazing thing you've done. Many blessings to you.

Caring mom, can I ask why you used so many monikers? Its so hard to follow a thread-- were you (honestly) leaving comments under multiple names to make it look like you had support? I mean, I can understand if thats truly the reason why, you're so passionate about this. You should stick with "caring mom" so we can follow you. And are you on bed rest for a surgery? I can't help asking, its the nosy in me. :) Hope you feel better.

Aria said...

Well said, Aletheia. There are obviously some people that come to this blog solely to stir up trouble and hurt people. There is nothing wrong with adoption in general - it's a very silly thing to be upset about. If there's something wrong with the adoption system in America, sure, take issue with that, but that by no means makes anyone who wants to take care of a child in a bad situation "evil." Focus on how to address the problem, not on assumptions about people you don't even know.

Aria said...

Oops! I agreed with a post Aletheia said a long time ago. I had the same window open for a long time before I responded so I didn't see any of the new comments. :)

caring mom said...

Lol Bella I don't have any need to make it look like I have support. I admitted using multiple handles the minute it was mentioned. I couldn't care less if anyone agrees with me. I know what the popular opinion is, IF I wanted to agree with everyone I would just say what's popular. Ill stick with caring mom because it seems to bother people if I use different ones.
I like how u didn't attack me and say nasty vulgar things just because we don't agree on everything. Thank u for that. I am on bedrest due to unexplained bleeding. I'm pregnant.

I hope you & your child both have wonderful lives, Kitty.

bella said...

I dont really want to be involved-
I agree 100% with you! I had a tubal ligation right after the birth of ONE child because it was so difficult. I almost lost the baby twice and he was the 5th one conceived. I lost 2 in my 3rd tri-mester and one was an ectopic and one a miscarriage at 19wks. I was devastated to be so far along, feeling the baby kick, hearing the heartbeat, then losing them. Two that I lost I actually had to go into labor to deliver, knowing they were already dead. It messed me up real bad. So after all that trying, I waited 2 yrs, got myself super healthy, my DR. got the autopsies to find out why I lost them and fixed the problem. By the time my last one came, although high risk, he came 3wks early but healthy, thank god. But I couldn't do it anymore, not emotionally or physically. So I had the tubal ligation done right after. And I've regretted it ever since. One of my tubes is badly scarred from the ectopic so a reversal most likely wouldn't take anyway, especially with my hardships. But my heart breaks when my son wishes he had a little brother or sister to play with. :(

bella said...

caring mom- I'm so very sorry. I hope you're ok. I know what you're going through, I've been there. My successful pregnancy entailed bedrest starting at just 4wks. I'd hoped to work til my 3rd tri-mester but the Dr. said no way if I wanted this baby to survive. I needed this one to live because I told myself I'd never be healthier and if I didn't make it I was never trying again. Thats part of the reason I'm so interested in Lyns story because we also considered adoption if the last baby didn't survive.

caring mom said...

Bella, I'm happy your baby made it. That's very very sad that you've lost your children. I can not imagine that pain. I am very sorry for your losses.
I am 22 weeks. I've been on bedrest since I was 18 weeks. I woke up in a pool of blood. I thought I was dying. I lost so much blood that we had to throw our bed in the garbage. It was probably a gallon. It was so much the paramedics thought someone was shot or stabbed. This has been a very uncomfortable pregnancy. I've had a bad headache almost the whole time. I have morning sickness morning afternoon and at nite. I feel like a cow. A fat and miserable cow. But its probably not worth complaining about. I'm actually lucky to be pregnant. I just feel like I've been stuck n this damned bed for a year already. I don't know how to make it to 40 weeks. Can't come soon enough.

bella said...

caring mom-
I hope you have plenty of friends and family to support and help you being on bedrest. I had one person, thankfully a good friend, who was a registered nurse. I was all alone. Hubby worked 60hrs a week most times. I had real bad diabetes, nausea and bleeding. They say nausea is actually a good sign the baby is thriving! I believe it because only with the last one did I have it. Hopefully that will subside in a few weeks. And good grief, don't feel like a miserable cow! You're carrying LIFE inside of you! You're allowed to gain weight, the baby needs it!

Thank you for giving me such empathy. I can't tell you how hard my life was back then but you know what? I look into my baby boys eyes and know it was all worth it and I'd do it all over again if I had to!

Btw, did you have a hard time conceiving and thats why you considered adoption?

bella said...

Btw caring mom-
warm ginger ale, saltines and a cool cloth and the head will help alleviate some of your symptoms. Also, I'm very seriously into alternative medicine: especially acupressure. For your headache, take your thumb and first finger and pinch very firmly the web of skin on your other hand between the thumb and first finger. I can't tell you how many headaches I have relieved for myself and friends with this method!

Heres a link:
http://www.chinese-holistic-health-exercises.com/acupressure-for-relieving-headaches.html

(OK, I just realized you're NOT supposed to do the hand accupressure during pregnancy so do the FIRST diagram- base of the skull!)

Lyn said...

Bella, thank you so much for your sensitivity in approaching what is obviously a very sensitive subject to all involved on this thread. I am SO beyond saddened to hear about your pregnancy experiences. My heart goes out to you.

To answer your earlier questions: I wish I knew why it takes so long. We've completed everything that needs to be done months ago. It's standard practice in South Korea to take up to 2 years for a "match" to be sent the adoptive parents after everything is finished. It's not unheard of to wait 3. Unfortunately their adoption system isn't as streamlined as China's is. The average age of a "matched" child is 15-18 months and then you have to wait about 3 months after receiving the paperwork to be able to finally go to the child's orphanage for your "gotcha day".
It's the most bizarre feeling in the world to know that your child has already been born and is waiting in an orphanage somewhere for you. And it's the worst feeling knowing that their is nothing you can do to speed up time to get to them.
We have not flown to S.Korea yet. Unfortunately, going there early wouldn't change the waiting times at all as everything would still have to go through the US adoptions agency to the S. Korean agency. We've been told by our agency that we will likely be matched BY next Christmas. But we are moving to another state in the spring and having to submit new home studies may push that back even more. It's heart breaking but there isn't much we can do but wait and prepare ourselves to be great parents.

I think I answered all of your questions but please let me know if I've missed anything! I'm glad to share every bit of my journey on the way to our little one! :)

bella said...

Thank you Lyn, you're one of my favorite posters here. I've been following you for a couple of weeks now.

One more question please- may I ask why you decided to adopt? I think I read that it wasn't because you had fertility issues but beyond that I'm so amazed that you've chosen to bring a child into your home that isn't biological. Not to dismiss the reasons for an infertile parent(s) desire to adopt but it really brings the passion to another level. I hope I'm coming across the right way as I wouldn't want to offend anyone!

Lyn said...

Bella, I know it sounds weird. I know their will always be people that say I'm crazy for saying this, and I accept that, but, I have literally ALWAYS wanted to adopt. I truly feel like this isn't an option for me, it's an absolute. I don't know how to explain why I know adoption is right for us. This bizarre feeling of knowing that someone out there has an enormous part of my universe tucked within them. Some stranger is protecting and growing a gift more precious than any other I could ever be given. They are protecting someone I love so dearly but am so helpless to comfort. Somewhere in the world is a woman who I have never met, someone I may never meet, but who I am eternally linked to and thankful for.
Some people grow up saying all they ever wanted to do in life was be a Doctor, a lawyer, a kick-butt Nanny, and in the same way ALL I have ever wanted and have known to be true is that I want to be a Mother to the motherless.
I don't know the circumstances of the birth mother that would lead to adoption. I don't pretend to know such things. But I truly mean it when I say we (my husband and I both, together, daily) pray for her good health and nourishment despite whatever circumstances she is in, kind and gentle hands during delivery, reassuring words that this child she cannot keep for whatever reason is already loved and has been for SUCH a long time. And most importantly, for the peace and strength she will be provided with.
I don't pretend to know her situation. I cannot possibly. But I do know that every day there are thousands of children who are placed for adoption. And I know all I want to do in my life is to help and love as many of them as I can.

Thank you Bella for helping to diffuse the situation as wonderfully as you have. Thank you again for your kind words.

longtime lurker said...

Lyn, I truly do think you are awesome; and I wish you and your husband the absolute best of luck on your journey. :)

Adoptive mom said...

okay so people were wanting to jump on lyn for adopting.... All I have to say is thanks for sharing your story lyn. You were very honest about your feelings, and you are also very compassionate for the birth parents pain. I have also adopted, and I did have a failed adoption. As hard as it was to walk away, it is ultimately the mothers decision. We ended up adopting a beautiful little boy who is almost five. We have since been blessed with two more children. We keep in touch with the birth mother through letters and pictures, and if it was up to us would have had more contact but respect her decision. She was a wonderful, intelligent young woman with great support from her family. They would have accepted any decision she made. It was very heartbreaking for her to give him up for adoption but felt that was best for her and him. No one pushed her to make the decision, and we supported her one hundred percent. We grew to love her family as ours and hope one day our son can have a relationship with them. It would break our hearts if they chose to not want contact when he is older and would have to work through that. But adoption can be a beautiful thing. There are good and bad adoption stories but they can work out in the end. There is always alot of emotion and pain for the birth mom and fear from the adoptive parents. But with prayer and compassion both sides work through it. May god bless you in your journey lyn and thanks for sharing!

kitty said...

Thank you bella. and thank you lyn for makeing such an impact and adopting a child. Imagine it this way, if no one took a child at birth.there would.be.ao many children in the system seeing rhings they shouldnt, doing things they shouldnt. This way they have an earlier start to a better future. Lyn ppl like you just make me smile. Thanks.

Aletheia said...

Bella, I also want to thank you for joining the thread. Your words are very wise.

Caring Mom, I don't know if it was you who responded to my last comment, but I assume it was. I am sorry if anything I said hurt you. Of course I do not think I can dictate who posts and who does not, and that wasn't what I was doing. I was asking you not to post such rude, thoughtless comments. Granted, I did not ask as nicely as I could have. Before Bella came around, I believed you were just trolling, posting mean and incendiary things just to get people upset. I don't believe that anymore, and I truly am sorry if I hurt you with anything I said. I wish I had been able to speak with the grace that Bella and Lyn had. This post was extremely hard for me to read. I had to stop and take a break because it was actually making me sick to my stomach to read such attacks against Lyn and others who choose to adopt. No system is perfect --and yes, of course problems should be fixed-- but every single adoptive parent I know (and I know many) is a wonderful person who truly loves their children, and prays for their children's birth parents even still. I also want you to know that everything I said about the children's home where I worked, as well as the country where it is located, is absolutely true, I promise you. It was very frustrating to share something so important to me, about a wonderful, loving place in a great country where I hope one day to return and work again, only to be told that it was wrong, when you don't have the personal knowledge and experience with it that I do. And so I'm sorry, again, for not choosing my words more carefully. I do hope that you will be able to see the beautiful thing that adoption can be. I wish you health and every happiness, and a beautiful, healthy baby.

caring mom said...

I apologize for sharing my thoughts on private american adoption agencies that use manipulation tactics. It doesn't have anything to do with this thread. And I made people upset. That was never my goal & I am very sorry I upset you, Lyn, Aletheia & everyone else. Thank you very much Bella for the advice. I'm going to look at the link now. Again I am sorry for any bad feelings that I caused.

Farrah said...

Thank you for the hugs and kind words everyone.

I was expecting to get flamed for what I said and was pleasantly surprised!!

bella said...

Thank you Lyn, what a heart-warming story! It brought me to tears. The child you are blessed with will be the luckiest kid in the world to have a mom such as you.

Caring mom, you're very sweet to come back and apologize. I totally understand being so passionate about something and when you have opposing sides to such n important issue it can get away from you. I truly believe your heart is in the right place. I am pro-adoption but wish there were much stricter laws in place, specifically about releasing medical information. A child absolutely should know their medical background. There is definitely much to be debated with this subject, both positive and negative.

caring mom said...

Thanks Bella. I have no problem with adoption itself. I have a big problem with the propaganda. For the first time in history american adoption agencies are in the business of taking babies away from vulnerable women and giving them to infertile couples. Its not about unwanted babies. Its about unwanted mothers. Its a for profit business. The more girls they can isolate in their maternity apartments, away from family & friends who will influence & support them(the agencies readily admit the maternity housing is designed to keep them away from family & friends), the more gifts they can give them(cell phones, laptops, clothing, apartment, transportation), the faster they can introduce them to a couple(many many mothers report giving up their babies out of guilt, they feel they owe the couple their baby), the quicker they can use manipulative language like "birthmother" the more babies they get=the more money they make. Its makes me sick! Also UT based agencies use an obscure law to kidnap babies from fathers. these are wanted babies. Very very rarely is a child unwanted. The only counselor these isolated girls have access to is the adoption counselor, whose goal it is to seperate the child from its mother. The only attorney she has is the one paid by the agency. NOBODY is telling her about all of the resources for single moms. Instead they lie and say things like, if u keep the baby u will be in a custody battle with the father, u won't be able to graduate, you'll be poor, etc. Worst case senario. they even tell moms the sadness will go away, IF they choose adoption. I just read that on an adoption site last night. The sadness will go away?!

I'm shocked more people arent outraged.

I have no idea what agency Lyn uses. My statements are to be taken as general & not an attack on Lyn. I don't know anything about her situation. if Lyn doesn't work for one of these dirty agencies, if Lyn isn't using one of these agencies then she has nothing to do with what's going on. I thought that was obvious. So to anyone who was hurt by my words, I do apologize. I care about these parents & the baby who is seen as deserving a life with parents who have more money even if that means they sacrafice being with their real & natural family. Money money money. Its all about money & selling "the perfect family.." Adoptive familes can divorce, go bankrupt & become poor just like anyone else. But that's never mentioned. Worse case senario for the natural family & best case senario for the adoptive family.

I can't seem to stop talking about it. Lol I need some fresh air & a break .... :P

caring mom said...

Farrah, I am again very sad for what you are going through. Bethany "Christian" Services is against adoptive children receiving their unamended medical records in all situations. It should be criminal. Farrah, you should have the right to know your medical history. I am so sick of these adoption agencies acting like they can wipe the slate clean by witholding about a newborns history. Its so sad. I am so sorry for the pain adoption has caused you, Farrah. <3

You could NOT be any more selfish! said...

Goes well? That's how you describe a mother losing her child. Wow.

how selfish said...

As long as you get a baby in your possesion its none of my business where it comes from? Wow. That's very telling. You couldn't care less that a mothers heart is broken. You don't care how or why. As long as you get a baby. Infertility makes some people evil and selfish.

u r part of the problem said...

Your own link says open adoption agreements are useless in New York. All the adoptive mother has to say is that contact isn't good for the child. Judge agress and the mother loses contact. Open adoption is a myth. 80% of so called open adoptions close to the heartbreak of the mother. Parents say what they want to hear. Just to get the baby out of the mothers arms. How can you live with yourself perpetuating the lies and manipulation.

TxNanny said...

I am so sad to read the horrible things being said about adoption. It breaks my heart hearing the process that literally built my family put down so negatively. I am 25 years old, was adopted at birth, and I'm a perfectly happy, well adjusted adult woman. I have a wonderful relationship with my mother and father, and even have a pretty great relationship with my biological mother and birth siblings. As a matter of fact, my parents and I attended the wedding of my biological sister a few weeks ago, and my birth mother told them "She is still the best decision I ever made, giving her to you was my greatest gift, and I would always go back and make the exact decision again." My birthmother struggles (has always, since before my conception/birth) with drugs and alcohol. I have had conversations with the siblings she raised that would make your head spin. She comes from a culture of drug addicted parenting, and while I think in her mind she did the best she could, she was definitely an "unfit" parent to her kids. All three of my siblings, have told me that they wish that their mother had placed them for adoption too. My life is a different story, I have been blessed with a fantastic family, wonderful friends, and opportunities to attend college. It would be another story had I not been adopted.

In this world you can find people who take advantage of just about anything. It's true that there are adoption companies and corporations who manipulate and control situations for financial gain, but its not true that every adoption situation is like that. To condemn a system that has brought so much hope and happiness to so many families is cutting off the nose to spite the face. At times it is frustrating to have a limited knowledge of my medical history, yes, but if the alternative was growing up in a home with drug addicted parents and knowing everything about my genetics, I (and probably any logical person I would venture to guess) would choose growing up in a stable family. I think it is the adoptive parents job to do the homework on behalf of their child and find out what medical concerns the birth parents have if the opportunity is available, otherwise we do live in a day and age where almost anything can be discovered through scientific means.

I apologize to the OP for hijacking this and continuing the crazniess, but whoever it is posting about the "evils of adoption" hit a nerve, my family was built on adoption and we are a happy healthy loving family. No issues or emotional disturbances have resulted in the tragic separation of us and our bio parents.
I think you should be as open and honest with your new boss as you care to be. I am probably an over sharer, but I try to always make sure that my MB knows that my priority is with my job and her kids but that sometimes things come up, and usually, as long as I have a schedule in advance, she usually doesn't mind. Good luck and baby dust, and prayers for everyone trying to grow their families, I hope that God helps you to grow them in whatever way he has planned, and that you get your little miracles in however way they come to you!

just curious said...

Beautiful post TxNanny! Thanks for putting a positive light on adoption.

And to the poster that is using multiple monikers again, really?

Come on, Caring mom. Stick with the choice you made and back up what you're saying by not changing your moniker every 5 seconds!

caring mom said...

Txmom. I'm happy adoption worked well for you. That's the kind of story I like to hear. Thank you also for recognizing that there are some bad agencies out there. From what I've seen, adoption agencies for profit are in it for the money. 90% of moms who contact them end up placing. Only 10% who contact agencies that offer moms adoption and ALSO support to keep their children, place. Women don't usually want an adoption. The babies are rarely unwanted. I just sent information in, as if I was interested in adoption. I got an email back filled with manipulative language "now that you have a baby growing in you, its very important you make a smart decision that is good for you and good for your baby" IN GIANT CAPS. As if to say, keeping your own child is NOT a smart decision that is good for you or your baby. How shameful!!!!!!!! Manipulative. Innaccurate in MOST situations! I am glad you have a happy adoption story txmom. I wish more were like yours.

I do take issue with the adoption propaganda "grow your child however god plans" GOD does NOT put babies in the wrong womb.

caring mom said...

Lyn u act like ur sad when u say u wish more people would foster to adopt. But you don't foster to adopt. You say adoption is low cost only if the child is in foster care AND legally free to be adopted. But all of the kids on adoptuskids.org are in foster care & legally free to be adopted. Its not hard to find. Like u made it sound. You whine about the money & the availability of adoptable kids. But I showed u a site & you're not interested. You must not feel that bad LOL!!
I'm wondering if you're like amanda G u don't care how u get a child as long as u get one. Or if you're going to take steps to make sure the mother has support to keep her child if that's what she wants over adoption. I doubt you'll do that. Just take the kid and go back home. Stripping it of its language, community, culture, religion, family & friends. There is nothing noble about that.



gawd ur bossy said...

Make me

I REALLY dont want to be involved said...

This is crazy. I really don't want to be involved. I am not taking sides. I just want to share my personal story. I do think the law that gives mothers 24 to decide is wrong. I had a tubal after I gave birth. After birth women are in no mental condition to be signing legal documents and making decisions that are irrevokable. A lot changes once yu step foot out of the hospital. Many hospitals will not due a tubal until 12 months post partum. Yet, adoption paper are signed & a mother is legally allowed to relinquish her child within 24 of giving birth. 24 hours. It used to be 90 days. 90 is still not enough, but 24 hours? As soon as my hormones regulated & I left the hospiital, I wanted another baby. In my right mind I never would have agreed to get a tubal. I could see how a vulnerable woman could be influenced, especially during pregnancy & right after. By the way, I'm getting my tubal undone. I should be pregnant by this time next year. I can fix my problem. I honestly have a soft spot for women who regret their adoption.

MissMannah said...

From what I've seen, most women who choose to put their child up for adoption make that decision LONG before delivery, often soon after conception. To say "babies are rarely unwanted" is very ignorant. If babies are so wanted 100% of the time, why are people still getting abortions? There are many instances where a woman does not want a baby or is unable to care for a baby. I have a friend who consulted a church to get help with raising her two toddlers and they ended up coercing her into adopting them out. Do I agree with the church's technique? Of course not. But in the end, I am glad my friend does not have her girls anymore, she was in no position to raise them. If I had the resources at the time, I would have adopted them myself, just because I knew my friend was unable to give them the life they deserve...and are now living.

Arwen Evenstar said...

You guys are really arguing to the extent of this? How lame all of you are being. Everyone has a different opinion...get over it.

Lyn said...

CM, best of luck and wishes for your pregnancy. Grow your family how you wish and I will do the same. :)

Aletheia said...

This is unbelievable. CM, a false apology is worse than no apology at all. I hope you'll find what's missing in your life that leads you to say such purposefully hurtful things. Until that time, I hope that you'll write your thoughts in a journal, instead of online where they hurt people.

i cant find it said...

What is amanda talking about 100%? Did someone say that?

UTNanny said...

Www.silentnomoreawareness.org


I used to believe that aborted babies were unwanted. But that is just not true. Unplanned & unwanted are not synonymous. Many aborted & adopted babies are & were wanted.

MissMannah said...

You cannot use religion to back up your argument, unless you are saying we are all religious and believe the same way you do. I assure you, I do not believe the same way nor can I see any benefit from that website. Yes, there are unwanted children in this world. Some are aborted, some are adopted out and some are kept at home. I would know, I'm in the third category. I think I can speak for all the unwanted children out there when I say that, at times, I would have rather been adopted.

ericsmom said...

Okay I will get flamed for sure. The website on adoptuskids, the kids all have major medical problems. It really does take a special person to take care of these kids.

talesfromthe(nanny)hood said...

I am honestly not sure what point "caring mom" (aka 30 other aliases) is trying to make, but I'll share my thoughts so she can kick me around a bit if she likes.

I think adoption is a fabulous way to grow a family. I think women who surrender their children for adoption are doing an amazing and brave thing. I think people who are willing to adopt kids from foster care who are older and have issues are very courageous to open their homes and hearts to a child who may NEVER love them back. I think people who choose to adopt younger kids are making the choice that is best for them. I think people who choose to adopt domestically OR internationally make their own best choice.

Certainly it would be very tough to surrender a child for adoption. No one who hasn't done just that can speak to the emotions a birth mother feels. "Caring Mom", are you a birth mother? Is that why you are so angry and bitter about adoption?

Absolutely any agency who operates in illegal or underhanded ways should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. "Caring Mom", if you have proof that agencies are doing all the horrible things you claim they do, have you contacted your state Attorney General, given him all the evidence you have collected, and agreed to testify against agencies who use coercion or perform criminal acts to get women to surrender their infants for adoption?

"Caring Mom", what do you do to help birth mothers injured by illegal and manipulative adoption agencies? Do you spend as much time advocating where you can actually do some good as you have spent here preaching about the evils of adoption and people who wish to adopt?

I certainly hope, "caring mom", that posting under multiple anonymous monikers here isn't the extent of your work against adoption, because that would be not only pathetic but pitiful and somewhat psychotic.

ericsmom said...

Tales

Great point. Caring mom (not) goes around bashing all our thoughts on the adoption topic. Explains all the evils and how the moms are victims. So Caring mom do you volunteer in shelters of abused women and children? Did you ever volunteer to make a difference? Did you adopt a child from the website you push down our throats?

Why is it your business what way a person grows their family?

UTNanny said...

I liked the wrong site. I meant to link a site full of abortion stories where all the moms wanted their babies but aborted for whatever reason and regret it. Has nothing to do with any religion.

Moniker #9,568,987,456 said...

Of course I volunteer & help others. do you? Just kidding. Don't care. You're not concerned about the manipulation. You're worried about how I spend my time. I'm not surprised.

my favorite poster said...

Exiledmothers.com is a good site for adoption stories that are well interesting.

just sayin said...

I checked & you're not right. There are healthy kids on there.

caring mom said...

I looked into it & its FREE to adopt the kids in foster care.

That is exactly what the site says. There may be a $500 fee for fostering & $100-$300 for classes. This applies to California.

I don't know whay lyn was talking about when she said several thousand dollars for all adoptions?

Adoptuskids.org has kids that are in foster care & adoptable. And no they don't all have health problemms.

caring mom said...

Ericsmoms why wouldn't it be my business that men have their children kidnapped from them & that many woman are manipulated into adoption? Its about human rights. That doesn't bother u. As long as some other woman gets a baby who cares how and why, right? I get it. I'm not pusing any site down anyones throats. I don't care if u go there or not. In fact don't go there. Thanks. :)

adoption stories said...

Adoption-truth.com


Thenation.com/article/shotgun-adoption

For anyone interested

innocent victims said...

Caring Mom, Whoa! I really take offene with this comment you made:

"I do take issue with the adoption propaganda "grow your child however god plans" GOD does NOT put babies in the wrong womb."

What the hell about in the case of rape? Or incest? Are you fucking kidding me?!

I was raped when I was 14yo but decided not to take my rage out against an innocent baby and chose to put it up for adoption.

How could you say something like that?

innocent victims said...

Missmannah, one of the few voices of reason here:

"To say "babies are rarely unwanted" is very ignorant. If babies are so wanted 100% of the time, why are people still getting abortions?"

THANK YOU!!

voice of reason said...

Who said babies are wanted 100% of the time? I know!!!! NOBODY did.

Thousands of women share stories of wanting their aborted & adopted babies. Unplanned doesn't mean unwanted. THANK YOU!!!!!!

bella said...

Caring mom, I truly thought this thread had calmed down. What happened to set you off again?

Btw, may I please ask what state you're from? Did you say you had personal knowledge of an adoption agency there that was sketchy?

A Rose By Any Other Name said...

Did an adoption counselor tell you that keeping your baby would mean taking your rage out on him? That's a weird thing to say.

Adoption can be a good experience. I've seen it work. My point is that coersion is alive and well in our adoption agencies. They are for profit & are making a lot of money. Anyone with financial interest shouldn't be influencing a pregnant mom. But often the agency and other pregnant women are the only contact the mom has. She is ripe for the brain washing. What kind of counseling is she receiving when her counselor stands to earn a big fat check by getting the mom to sign?

I said what I said because I think its stupid & not accurate. I don't believe GOD puts a child in the "wrong" womb. To me that sounds like propaganda.

"There is no wrong way to grow a family."
"Choosing adoption is brave."
"Now that u have a baby growing in u its important to make a smart decision for u and your baby."
"If you parent u WILL end up in a custody battle."
"If you don't sign the papers, we have to call CPS. Because were concerned about u having the services u need."

Okay. First of all god makes no mistakes. People do. It is always wrong to grow ur family on the pain of another. All of those positive comments about adoption imply that parenting is a poor choice. Routinely threatening to call CPS when a mother is backing up should be illegal. The minute a woman contacts a private adoption agency, she is immedietely refered to as "birth mother." She is also showered with praises, assuming that adoption is best for her & also assuming that she will choose adoption. Isolating these women is a big part of the plan to increase the chance of getting the baby. They do their best to get women into their apartments so they will be away from the support of family & friends. Thus increasing her chance of keeping her child. Agencies openly admit the housing is to keep women away from "influentual family & friends." Its word for word on an adoption site. Also, on one of the web sites under FAQ, it asks if the sadness will ever go away. The agency said "YES" "the pain will go away when you choose adoption..."

Isolation, coersion, lies & manipulation of facts & adoption language is used to get babies transferred from the real mother to the adoptive mother with fees from $14,000-$30,000 these adoption agents have every reason to pressure women. These women are immedietely befriended by their adoption counselor. She is her counselor. Her job is to separate her from her child. Its not to find what's in the best interest of the mother. And not what's in the best interest of the child either. Its one goal: to take the baby from her & to collect the fees. In other countries it would be considered very unacceptable & coersive for a potential adoptive family to be in or around the hospital or hospital room. And it is.

Adoption in our country is synonymous with coersion.

If you really did get raped, pregnant and gave up your child then of course that's very sad and I am really sorry. Nobody should ever have to go through that kind of pain.

caring mom said...

I don't know bella. But I could use your calming presense. To find. Manipulative tactics, all you have to do is visit any private adoption web site. Letters from infertile women gushing over how "heroic" "amazing" "selfless" the "birthmoms" are. As if to say the mother is nothing more than a breeder, who WILL choose adoption. And that if she chooses to parent, then she is not heroic, amazing or brave. It all makes keeping a baby so much harder.

I am trying to calm down with my language.I really don't mean to be such a bitch. I'm just passionate about this subject.

caring mom said...

Adoption agencies like to give birthmoms a false sense of control. They use language like, "You get to chooe." "You pick the parents." "You make a unique plan." In reality the pregnant mom has no control over anything once she loses her baby. Nothing. Its just a way to give these mothers a false sense of control.. apparently it works. Kitty said"we got to choose everything." One mom said she was choosing adoption because she wanted to always know that her child was being cared for. A realistic mother responded"If you give up your child you won't know if he is eating, let alone being taken care of."Adoption never guarentees a better life. Just a different one.

JT said...

CM,
I echo Bella, where you from? Are you aware of any shady practices in your state?

CARING mom said...

Hello, JT. I am from Logan, Utah. Yes, I am. There are many shady agencis. Utah is known to have offices in many states. When people call them their routed to Utah. The laws here make it real easy for a fathers rights to be terminated. All it takes is for him not to do two things. 1.)Within 20 days of being informed his babys mom will be in Utah, he must retain a lawyer. 2.)put himself on the putative fathers registry Then he loses his rights forever. It doesnt matter where he or the mother lives.

innocent victims said...

To A Rose, caring mom and whomever the hell else you are! NO, an adoption agency did NOT say those things to me, it was my FEELINGS! It isn't weird! The emotional turmoil I was going through made me feel that way. Why must you think everything said negatively comes from an adoption agency? I think your really crazy. And you know what, why even register that name caring mom? What with the million other names you've used, whats the point? Nobody here seems to agree with what you have to say and making these monikers up doesn't help that struggle along, no matter how hard you wish it to be!

innocent victims said...

Wait, what?? I went back to reread your comment "If you really did get raped, pregnant and gave up your child then of course that's very sad and I am really sorry"

IF I got raped?? IF?? You think I'd make something like that up? For what purpose? This is an anonymous blog right? For what reason would I do such a thing? Your a real cruel person.

Lyn said...

EBN, (aka Caring mom, aka curious, aka crazy town banana pants) you are a sick person. Inventing all of those monikers and posting fake stories to try and prove your point. Insane. I hope you can take a break and go get the help you need.

just sayin' said...

I had a feeling that was east bay nanny! Too many coinkydinks!

caring mom said...

I've never posted a fake story. So I have no idea what you're talking about..

Lyn said...

Don't you just feel bad for her? Even lying about being in UT. You can find all sorts of things out about a poster with a little computer savvy. So sad.

caring mom said...

I'm amused that anyone here thinks me using multiple handles means anything. You obviously know its me. I have always readily admitted it. At least four times.

I don't think everything negative comes from an adoption agency. Its a weird thing to say. It doesn't sound like something anyone would say. Because you made it sound like keeping your baby would mean taking your rage out on him. But now I think you just worded it strangely.

Lyn said...

If you weren't just trying to stir the pot you would have stuck with your usual username EBN. So weird. Don't you WANT to find something productive to do with all the time you spend on here making crap up?

UTAHMOM AKA AKA UTMOM aka CARING MOM AKA said...

I never said I was IN UT. I am FROM UTAH. You're obviously not savvy at all bc u said u think I am east bay nanny. I just caught that. I don't like her. But I wouldn't let someone else take the heat for what I have said.

What fake stories? You're the one spreading lies about adoption. Which I've already pointed out. Re: the expense & whatever else I've had to correct u on.

just sayin' said...

caring mom said...
I've never posted a fake story. So I have no idea what you're talking about..


Now where have I heard those EXACT words before?

Lyn said...

Whatever makes you feel better EBN.

caring mom said...

Lyn u look crazy again. I already told u that I am NOT east bay nanny no matter how badly u want it to be true. Its not.

Lyn said...

I was polite to you because I thought you were a new poster, a poster who had different views than I do, which is always okay. But nope. Same old EBN being EBN. Man.

caring mom said...

Ask MPP. I am sure she could easily confirm it. You think I'm am her, that just makes u look stupid & crazy. Doesn't bother me.

Lyn said...

Okay, MPP, I have her written permission to ask you. Is this EBN? She specifically said I could ask you. :)

caring nanny said...

This is an epic fail on your part. But I'm enjoying I. I'm convinced that YOU must be East Bay Nanny attention whoring as usual!

Fake stories? Back that up.

Lyn said...

God bless your heart child.

caring mom all day said...

Good. I'm glad u asked her. You could've saved ur self the time. But u can think whatever u want. I could find documents to link anything I've said. I may be crazy but I am no liar.

Aletheia said...

LOL, only EBN could bring this level of crazy to the party! I believe Lyn. I am not nearly tech savvy enough to figure that out--kudos!

Rhiannon said...

Wow. Now this is getting hysterical. We all know who you are, EBN. Give it a rest already.

caring mom all day said...

GOD BLESS YOUR HEART CHILD :D have a niiiiiice life.

Lyn said...

i feel like a child on Christmas morning.

caring mom all day said...

Ill add u to the crazy list. You'll see. Just like when u were all sure RBTC posted that nasty post. You're all wrong. I'm not EBn. I don't even like her.

just sayin' said...

FOUND IT!


EastBayNanny said...
"None of my stories are invented. Not a single detail. I do realize many find it a stretch to believe what I have seen/ experienced."

And there are other comments on other threads where she claims all are "true stories"!

Now, lets see how many similarities we can all come up with to prove this multi-monikered lady is EBN!

Fess up now, EBN! How cool would it be to have fooled us for so long?! Hell, we may even think it was daringly brilliant of you!

Aletheia said...

I'm so glad to know that there's not this caustic person hating adoption out there somewhere... it's just silly old EBN saying anything to get at other people!

caring mom all day said...

I do too. Life is good, right?

Rhiannon said...

Yes, the way she words things is "very telling" indeed.

Lyn said...

I'm just amazed that we waited this long before calling her out on her lies.

if I pretend to be ebn will that make u :) ? said...

I'm sorry to dissapoint you. But I haven't made up any stories. How else do u want me to say that? If I were ebn Id say it. But like I said, not true. There are 7.5 million people in the bay. I don't think lyn is smart enough to realize that.

Aletheia said...

So you admit to being in "the bay"? LOL.

caring mom said...

I like it when you all make asses out of yourselves ASSuming. :) Keep it up. Call me EBN. I lol @ it. Its so off. MPP can tell u that I'm not her. I don't want my personal information out there but she is more than welcome to confirm that I am not ebn. Never used that handle, ever. :)

Ps Call me ebn just at least one more time? Pretty please? :)

Aletheia said...

"UTAHMOM AKA AKA UTMOM aka CARING MOM AKA said...

I never said I was IN UT. I am FROM UTAH. You're obviously not savvy at all bc u said u think I am east bay nanny. "

" Anonymous CARING mom said...

Hello, JT. I am from Logan, Utah. Yes, I am. There are many shady agencis. Utah is known to have offices in many states. When people call them their routed to Utah. The laws *****here***** make it real easy for a fathers rights to be terminated. "

And now for the kicker:

" Anonymous caring mom all day said...

... I may be crazy but I am no liar. "

lololol

Lyn said...

And EBN reacted the EXACT same way last time someone accused her of being a fox nes watcher, haha. This just gets better and better.


I am SO glad that there isn't really a person spewing hate and venom against the beautiful adoption process.

just sayin' said...

EBN/caring mom, when 2 posters asked what state you were from, why did you split hairs? What state are you in NOW?

Call me AL said...

Okay EBN. So what lies? You sound like a parrot. You keep saying I lied & made up stories. But u can't back that up. Lame.

Lyn said...

Oh, I'm sorry, am I "policing" the boards? That's your favorite thing to do isn't it? SO sorry ebn!

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