Thursday, 2/5 in BrooklynA nanny, big, black 300 plus pounds, long braids in a ponytail down her back, dk blue jeans, black shirt, plaid shirt over black was caring for young white boy with curly hair. Boy needed to be changed or checked and was running and playing happy and precociously. She grabbed him by one arm and spanked his bottom five times. He was wearing jeans and was shocked because he was playing around and I think he thought she was too. He was wearing jeans and a pull up and diaper, so I dont think she really hurt him but I dont think nannies should be grabbing on kids like this or spanking them like that.
The little boy had a long sleeved green shirt on with a stick figure cartoon on it. He also had a silver bracelet on his hand and I assumed it was a medic alert bracelet, but it could have just been a bracelet. He was 2-3 years old. Big head, small body, lots of curly hair, runny nose.
98 comments:
Dumb sighting, the fact that you don't think children should be spanked doesn't warrant your posting on here.
Shades of Grey? You're dumb.
A nanny should NEVER EVER put her hands on a child, not even if the parents say its ok. If a nanny or babysitter ever put her hands on one of my children, it would be the last thing she ever touched. This is why I stay home with my kids, I just can't handle the thought of someone hurting them, and what I would do to that person in return.
As a nanny I would NEVER lay my hands on any child. I have witnessed many a parent do so, but what's good for the goose is not good for the gander!
I 2nd that, Lindsey.
I personally had a horrible experience with an abusive Daycare when I was about 4 yo and swore when I got older that if I ever had kids, I just wouldn't be able to put them in one.
One of the workers at that Daycare was so mean, I remember very clearly several incidents that took place where kids were spanked, smacked in the face, force-fed food.... and those kinds of abuses were just swept under the carpet back then.
Moreover, what on earth could a 2-3 year old do that would deserve being hit? This is a disgusting sighting and I hope the parents see this!
i agree with the daycare things. I have worked in daycare before. let me tell you hardly anyone there has any kind of degree..they are grossly underpaid and over worked..not to mentioned even with state regulations, they still go out of ratio( teacher to child).. IT creates a lot stress. NONE of which warrants abusing a child. but put the factors together..under qualified,under paid and over worked...something bad is bound to happen. As for this incident, whether the nanny had permission or not, she should have NEVER done it, for one hurting the child and creating a mistrust in their relationship..but at ANY TIME the parent could sue you for it and you would have no defense what-so-ever. It's just not wise
To the child abuser in the first response:
What did the child do to deserve a spanking??? Didn't you notice the child was having fun playing? And he was even shocked that she spanked his butt.
For some reason she was taking her anger out on him. Maybe, she was hungry. And should be put out in the field to graze.
I don't think a nanny should hit a child, either. Unless, it's something really severe. And that's the only way to get them to straighten up. I think one nanny on this site mentioned giving a swat to her charge that tried to run out in the street. That's understandable. And wasn't listening to her. If its for safety reasons okay.
Hitting a child and SPANKING a child (with diapers to provide padding, no less) are two very different things.
So Kickline
Why was the child spanked or hit?? Did you see a good reason for it in this posting????
And thats the thing...what did this child do?
Guess what guys.
Some parnets believe spanking is OK and some of us even allow our nannies to do it as well. Go ahead and flame away, because we are the parents whose kids know how to behave.
My teen has a healthy fear of me, yes I said fear. Just as I had a healthy fear of my mother. That fear kept me from trying drugs, getting into a car with drunken friends and involving myself in all sorts of dangerous situations or giving into peer pressure that may have resulted in far worse than a spanking should I have gotten in over my head.
And to stave off all you ignorant people who think spanking is abuse, spanking is not the same as hitting. Period.
So once again I invite you to go ahead and flame away.
I don't think the issue needs to be "to spank or not to spank", rather, the OP thought this situation looked off, and the OP thinks that spanking in this situation, with a kid just playing around, was wrong. If the parent sees it, the parent can make the decision whether spanking in this instance (or ever, as I think) was warranted. If the OP didn't write it, the parent (if they se it) couldn't judge it. Now they have the opportunity to do so.
Spanking is a form of hitting. Facts are facts. Someone should kick that b*tch's ass and tell her to pick on someone her own size. Definitely grounds for immediate firing.
My kids have never been spanked and they are model students. They excel at academics and sports and my daughter was recently elected to student government. We are a very tight knit family and no one is afraid of anyone else.
Sorry, but I don't know why anyone would want to live like that. It sounds highly unpleasant for everyone involved.
Even if parents chose to strike their children in the name of discipline, I can't imagine anyone thinking it's okay for the nanny to do it.
Thanks for the Spanks
The point is what did the child do to deserve the SPANKS!!!
It's really not about spanking or not spanking, its about the NANNY SPANKING. It is not her right, not at all, not even if the parents are ok with it, (which I doubt they are ok with someone "spanking" their 2 yr old) I have a 6, 4, and 2 yr old all boys, and the older two have all done something at one point that has warranted a spanking. A simple change of direction for my 2 yr old is all it takes and he quickly forgets he was even misbehaving.
But don't kid your seld thanks for the spanks, spanking is hitting, not matter how you look at it. I can live with that.
If the nanny feels that a spanking is in order then she should wait til the parents get home and ask them to do it. I don't even let my kids' grandparents spank them. So I would never let a nanny do it.
Yep, here's the old "smack them hard to show them who's boss and they'll be so afraid of you they'll never make a bad judgement call in their whole life" crowd.
I'd rather have my kids understand that they should never drink and drive because they could get killed in a car accident than to think they shouldn't drink and drive because their mother would beat them for it. But that's just me.
And yes, spanking IS hitting. And why teach a 2 year old that playing and having fun is something they deserve to get hit for?
She grabbed him and spanked him for no reason at all. What a witch this "nanny" sounds like.
Even though I have been given permission to spank some of my charges, I never would. Although I don't believe spanking is child abuse, I also don't believe that it's my place to lay my hand on someone else's child.
I do agree that spanking and hitting are only the same thing by definition. As someone who was spanked by my mom on rare occasions, and someone who was also hit once by the tough girl in high school, I can assure you the two are definitely NOT the same.
Whle statistics show abused children often grow up to be abusers, history proves that the vast amount of children who were spanked grew up just fine. Remember spanking has only become taboo the last two decades or so. Up until then children were often disciplined with spanks.
I think that spanking is ok, but i don't understand why this nanny did it. As far as I could tell he was being a kid, playing around. she grabbed him and spanked him? The nanny should have given some kind of reason
I spank, so do the parents!
Damn straight, children need a healthy fear of parents and/or guardian.
When I was growing up I kept myself out of trouble not for keeping out of trouble sake, but for what my mom would do when she found out!
Kids today are a pile of whimps! We protect them from every little thing under the sun, then we push'em out of the nest and say ok, go be an adult now, when half of them have no clue how to! Then we all complain to the gals at bingo that out 52 year old son is back living with us!
Just as the late George Carlin said "The kid who ate too many marbles grew up to have no kids of his own!"
If the kid thought the nanny as joking around, it couldn't have been that bad.
And the OP has no idea what transpired before the "beating".
SPANKING IS NOT HITTING. It is illegal to HIT a child, it is not illegal to SPANK a child.
I was a child who was spanked, and it resulted in an unhealthy fear of my father. I remember once my granny bought me a guitar when I was a child which I cherished. My teacher sent a note home to my father about my homework, and my father went into rage, breaking my guitar. As I write this post, I have memories of him screaming and taking my guitar and smashing it against the wall. When I was 18, he found out my stepmother let me go to a friend's house, and he threw me up against a wall because I wouldn't look him in the eye. My stepmother tried to stick up for me, and he told her to shut up or leave. He was very strict, and I was scared of him. It was very strange, because although I didn't know my mother, her spirit lived in the attic above my room. Her wedding dress, hanging on a lone beam with a coat hanger was in the attic in it's own spot. I remember my brother unfolding the attic stairs and I went up there. I spotted the dress and asked my granny who the dress belonged to, and she told me it was my mother's wedding dress. I literally saw my mother in that dress, staring at me. I was so scared, I couldn't go up there ever again.
OK, so I am not one to question the validity of posts, yet OP stated a few things that were questionable, like that the child needed to be changed, and that he was wearing a Pull Up and diaper. OP, how exactly do you know that he needed to be changed or checked, and that he was wearing not one but two things underneath his pants? This post seems rather off on those two statements alone, yet the spanking issue is just plain wrong.
I agree with worlds best nanny. I have took care of a child whom I am 100% sure was never spanked in his life. He wasn't an agressive kids, never called other kids names, hit or kick anybody but one day, the other boy didn't want to play with him and he told the boy "I'll beat you up!". I told him it wasn't nice and he said he was joking but he wasn't apologizing, so I knew that he had no idea it wasn't okay to say it.His parents probably spoil him (only child) and let him do whatever he wants, but since he wasn't getting his way with me, he just ran away screaming at the park saying all kind of things like "why does the world hates me?why?why?". And he is only 4. A kid like that deserves a GOOD spanking to learn a lesson.He was being awful.He wanted everybody to go to him and caress his head and apologize for not paying attention to him and forget about what he did.I ignored him,told the other boy's parent to ignore him too and after 15-20 minutes he calmed down and just sat and watched the boy.After a while, they were playing and he apologized for what he said.If I had just said to him "apologize for what you said" he would have done without understanding what he did wrong.I see a lot of parents doing that here in Los Angeles, especially Santa Monica's park and in Pacific Palisades, and I don't think is the right thing to do.
About the post, the nanny was wrong to hit the kid just because he was running away.He wasn't being bad as the awful kid I took care of, he thought he was playing.In that case, she could have used WORDS to let the boy know it wasn't playtime.
When I was a Nanny I NEVER spanked the children! They are somebody elses children, and I would not have had the right! (There were times when they needed a good spanking, but I never did it;)
I do spank my own children maybe twice a month at most. Never in anger or frustration. My children KNOW what is expected of them, they KNOW they are loved, they KNOW they are wanted, they KNOW they are safe. It's a Parents personal choice to spank....NOT a Nanny's!!
Actually, spanking is hitting. It's incoherently ignorant to pretend otherwise. :(
Gawd ppl u need to learn the difference beteen spanking and hitting, ones legal and one isn't. I never got spankeed once in my life and i didn't turn into a spoiled brat
Just as it's ignorant to insist spanking is abuse, all parents who spank are abusers, and all kids who get spanked will grow up damaged.
Miss Dee, your father was not strict, he was abusive and that's sad.
Metronanny, I liked your comparison to being spanked by a loving parent as opposed to being hit by the school bully. That's something many can relate to and you are right, there is a huge difference.
Meh. I don't think ALL spanking is abuse, but I certainly think that a NANNY angrily whacking a BABY five times on the street for no reason certainly qualifies.
I can't get too excited about parents swatting their own child in private. I just think it's sort of, well, stupid and useless, but hey, whatever floats your boat. Whatever euphemism you want to use, it' still a form of hitting. Denying that just makes you look like a DA. Or hey, maybe one of you geniuses would like to explain how you spank a child without hitting.
Also, parents doing it is one thing. Only a complete Fkn idiot would allow anyone else to strike their kid.
And on that note, I'm done on this one because it's one of my prickly topics.
Some facts about spanking.
98 percent of prisoners were spanked.
93 percent of those who live in trailer homes were/are spanked.
95.2 percent of those on welfare are/were spanked.
100 percent of bitches and hos "was" spanked.
Those least likely to spank (hit) a child are in fact the most evolved and intelligent.
If it is discipline you are looking for, there are so many more options and no arguable response or cause to inflict harm on a child.
PS If you're barely tapping the child, how do you explain that? Come on Mama, how hard to you have to hit your little brats for them to know you mean business?
Jo-Jo,
Show your work! Give me the link to the website where you got your information.
So, world's dumbest, you admit right here that you had no clue WHY various sorts of trouble were best left alone, you were just terrified of your mother so you never dared educate yourself. And your mother chose to hit you regularly rather than explain any facts of life to you. This explains a lot. How many quaaludes did you steal from your employers and pop on the job today?
And LA, you have just announced that you are a do-nothing, ignore the bad behavior because you don't know how to deal with it and can't verbalize coherently enough for a child to understand you babysitter. Congratulations.
This isn't a debate on spanking.
I don't care if a parent spanks a child. (In my opinion, a spank is NEVER out of anger.)
But a NANNY?
No.
With my first job, I was told to spank my charge under certain circumstances. I never EVER did. I never even considered it.
And if anyone ever spanked my children besides myself or their father, there would be HUGE legal issues.
Clover said....
"I don't care if a parent spanks a child. (In my opinion, a spank is NEVER out of anger.)"
That's just the problem, Clover. Too many parents spank their child "out of anger". They are very upset at that moment and are unable to rationalize, therefore taking the spanking to extremes. That's why it is NEVER ok to hit a child. There are too many other ways to discipline a child, you don't need to spank them.
Dear Cali Mom,
First off what is a quaalude?
Secondly, I was not terrified of my mother, I had a healthy respect for her power as a parent.
I knew right from wrong, my mother taught me well, but you know kids, they don't always make the best decisions no matter how well they are taught.
Just the idea of what kind of punishment my mother would dole out was always in the back of my mind. She didn't always spank me, sometimes I was banned from using the phone, or grounded, you know the drill.
I think she made me a strong adult with a proper sense of what's right or wrong.
"93 percent of those who live in trailer homes were/are spanked."
LMAO! As if living in a trailer park automatically makes you a horrible person.
As for the other stats, it would be nice if the source was produced, but I know at least two of them are true. However I also believe people in prison need to take responsibility for their own actions. Most people in prison today come from homes with single mothers or broken homes. Should we start comdemning single women with children, or saying people should remain in unhappy, unhealthy marriages so their kids aren't emotionally traumatized? If someone goes out and commits a crime, the responsibilty is on their shoulders, not the mom or dad who spanked them, or the mean teacher who failed them in Math in third grade, or because they saw their dog get run over when they were 12. They chose to commit a crime and did it. Our society would be a better place if we stopped blaming everything else and started laying blame on the shoulders of those who deserve it.
Cali-mom were you beaten as a child? Is that why you're so caustic? Or did your parents just pour derision upon you anytime you tried to voice an opinion? Because it seems to me you simply cannot make your case in a reasonable manner and must constantly resort to name-calling.
Well?...that was stated wonderfully and is oh so true.
The world is full of self-important idiots because their parents "reasoned" with them when they were toddlers. A bunch of whiney losers whose couldn't understand why suddenly, when they got out into the real world, they couldn't hack it when the going got a little tough. A good spanking and a show of "who's boss" would have solved this problem. I'm sorry but parents (and nannies) are the BOSS of children. Not friends, not buddies, not equals.
Winter Park,
Power tripping isn't part of being a parent. I think your basic argument, 'showing someone who's boss' was used in the Rodney King trial.
Having said that, this post is about a nanny "spanking" a child. Anyone who attempts to justify such a circumstance is really beyond hope.
As hard as it might be for you to believe Jane,some parents do hire nannies with the expectation that they too will spank as that is their form of dicsipline. While I understand that on this board,those of us that spank are in the minority,according to many,many surveys,over 50 percent of the US population do spank as a form of discipline.
Many parents,who spank,hire nannies or babysitters and have no problem with them spanking their child as they are reasonable people and acknowledge that there is clearly a difference between spanking a child and abusing a child.
While I respect the right of those who choose alternatives to spanking,I also believe that it is high time to acknowledge that spanking is NOT a crime and is an acceptable form of punishment here in the US.
I respect your right not to be a nanny or hire a nanny who spanks,however,If a parent hires a nanny with certain discipline expectations that is their business and no one else's.
Someone who beats a child and tries to justify it..that is beyond hope. A loving parent/nanny enforcing rules and discouraging dangerous or extremely impolite behavior is very hopeful..afterall we have plenty of children who's only form of supervision is a TV and some junk food while mom,dad and the cell phone nanny do their own thing. So,perhaps we should continue to focus on Nannies who are abusing/neglecting children instead of those who use a form of discipline that you yourself and many others simply disagree with.
for some reason that posted anonymous. I am the author. The whole Damn Alphabet
(when I try to utilize the Name/URL button it will not allow me to lv a name)
First, we don't know if the parent authorized the nanny to hit the child.
Second, any parent who would authorize such a thing is absolutely sick in the head.
Third, the idea that children are in relationships that involve loving and trusting spanking- well it's also sick. Sick, I say.
Perhaps your children's children will be more evolved. Although, I do have much sympathy for parents or nannies that are unable to match wits with their toddlers and have to rely on brute force. (Or any force at all).
Jane,I respect your opinion but am shocked at the derogatory remark,not to mention dissapointed that you chose that route to make your point as no doubt many posters will follow your lead.Respectfully,The whole damn alphabet.
(Again,the name/URL is white and I am unable to leave my moniker there)
And I think parents who think they can reason with a 4 year old about the dangers of running in the street and the dire consequences after the umpteenth time the child has done it is sick sick sick.
Jane, give me a break with your Rodney King comment. I mean... REALLY.
Being the boss of your children is SOLELY for their benefit and protection, as children cannot govern themselves.
I, quite frankly, am shocked by your analogy. What has happened to you? Have you lost your mind?
I have to say, my husband and I have not taken spanking off the table when it comes to the methods of discipline we feel are permissable for us to use. We agree that if we agree that spanking is the only way to make our children understand that something serious, meaning life endangering, should never be done, we would go there. However, we have never had to resort to that to date. Redirection, time outs, removing privileges, discussing appropriate behaviors and rewarding good behavior has worked for us. We would never have spanking on the table as an appropriate discipline method for our nanny to use. This does not sound like a reasoned response to severe behavior, just and irrational and violent bad nanny siting.
World's dumbest said: "I think she made me a strong adult with a proper sense of what's right or wrong."
Yes, like stealing preescription drugs from your BOSSES (who you refuse to acknowledge as your biosses because you are older than them), and popping the pills while being paid to care for children, and then bragging about it? Yes, you certainly do have a proper sense of what's right and wrong. In your own little alternate reality, and since all those voices in your head agree with you, you must be right!
Jane, I agree with you completely, and you said it VERY well. It's much easier to stick out your hand and hit someone much smaller than you than it is to take more educational and effective approaches.
oh, and glad,too,see,your,back.
Forgive me, I am so bored by the same argument. Arguing with ignorant people, (even multi- monikered ignorant people) is well- a bit like trying to saddle a cow, you work like hell; but what's the point.
jane,I usually respect your position even when we don't agree,however,your snide comments and out right name calling today,shocks me.
Even more so,Your multi monikered remark shows a lack of respect for those who support this blog(and have for some time)weather they support your position on this subject or not. That info is private and you should respect that,not use it against someone simply because the two of you disagree.Very dissapointing. Very unprofessional. I could see using it if the blog took a threatening or foul turn but that was not the case here.When others make such claims,we know they are guessing but the fact that you actually have the info and are willing to try and embarass someone or shame them with it..well..thats bad business!
Even more dissapointing,Look who your biggest fan is now!??
This is your blog. You have aright to do as you wish. I hope you will reconsider the name calling and use of privellaged info though,
Sincerely.
I will respect your wishes now and not BORE you with any more responses.
Jane Doe said...
"Although, I do have much sympathy for parents or nannies that are unable to match wits with their toddlers and have to rely on brute force. (Or any force at all)."
Thank you. I remember when I was a child my father spanking all of us - with switches, belts, spoons... Is spanking ONLY appropriate when dealt with an open hand? There are some people that would argue that even corporate punishment is acceptable. So, where are we supposed to draw the line?
When I had children, I told myself that I would do my very best not to spank. I didn't want my kids to feel the humiliation and shame I felt when I was a child. Being an inexperienced parent, I knew there had to be other ways to discipline my child and I tried to educate myself the best way I could and find alternative methods.
My children are now 5, 7 and 10 and I can honestly say that I have never put my hands on them to punish them physically. They are all A/B students, very well-behaved and are the sweetest, most affectionate children. I figured out the most powerful tool for us was structure, as long as I kept my children busy and they knew what to expect and what was expected of them, I never found it necessary to spank them.
I personally feel that spanking is a cop-out, and only utilized by lazy parents that don't want to take the time to sit down with their children and figure out another solution to the problem.
I know there are some die-hards out there that truly believe in spanking, and there's nothing I can say to convince them that it's just the wrong thing to do, all I can say is I know what worked for us.
The Whole Damn Alphabet, I heartily agree.
This ignorant cow will no longer bore Jane or anyone else with my opinions on any matter, since it's clear that if we disagree with Jane we will be insulted.
I can understand a person might feel strongly against the use of spanking, but repeated polls consistantly show that the better part of Americans feel spanking is an acceptable form of discipline. Furthermore, if people can't understand that it is possible to spank without it being abuse; that is works well for some parents, and that some kids, like myself, were apreciative of how I was disciplined which included reasoning, explanations, grounding, loss of privilidges and spanking, then calling others ignorant is simply a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
BTW Jane, your inability to have a reasonable debate and get your point across without insults doesn't say much for your abilty to match wits with anyone, including toddlers.
One cannot have a reasonable debate with deviants who get off on spanking children.
Now we have nutter nannies celebrating spanking other people's children? If I ever saw a nanny putting her hands on a child, I would throw her across the playground.
PS My nanny is an educated, professional. Hire educated, professional nannies and you won't have to deal with these backwoods, inbred lunatics!
Jane,
You are completely on target with your comment. Spanking is the last resort of parents who have failed to establish their true authority as adults, which is rooted not in their physical superiority but rather in their emotional maturity, wisdom and self-confidence.
Spanking raises chances of deviant behavior
My self esteem is easily wounded, probably because of all the spankin'
I wasn't able to address this earlier because I had to get my kids up and off to school, but I have to interject here on "the whole alphabets" comment.
You said:
"Your multi monikered remark shows a lack of respect for those who support this blog(and have for some time)weather they support your position on this subject or not. That info is private and you should respect that,not use it against someone simply because the two of you disagree."
I very seriously doubt her intention is to "out" anyone. If I were to surmise what she meant, the other day someone made a comment about you using multiple monikers, hence your picking the name "the whole alphabet". I think you are getting a little bent out of shape here because I have never seen anyone get their info broadcasted unless they were extremely abusive to someone else or the blog. I see a woman who cares very deeply about children and just doesn't want to imagine any of them getting hit, and quite frankly, that's how I feel, too.
We can't tell others how to raise their children, obviously, but this board gives us the opportunity to see both sides of a debate and I've always known Jane to be a fair and just person. We all have differing opinions here and sometimes we can enrich others with them, and other times, well, we can just manage to piss someone off!
Anyway, I just had to stick my two cents in because I felt that the comment you made about Jane concerning the monikers was uncalled for because I noticed what happened the other day with the multi-monikered debacle between posters.
Wow whole damn alphabet, you just got your plus sized penny butt schooled! EEK!
Looks to me as if calimom isn't jane's only "fan".
Hurrah.
just saying,I am not quite sure what you are referring too? I have not called names nor have I sunk to the level of some posters who do so,all I have done was adress jane(and not you) and voiced my opinion,something I have yet to ever see you do. Must be awfuLLy cozy dragging along on the shirt tails of others. You might want to come up for air though and wipe that brown stuff off your nose!Some of us choose to have our own voice..come to think of it,I have never seen that from you. You always agree with all the "popular" regulars. Jump in with your ass kissing"oh I agree","here let me defend someone so I can score some brownie pts". But,what have you ever stood for? Nothing that I can think of? Certainly nothing memorable.
When you find your own voice you might become abit more memorable..perhaps that is why you so often refer to Butt looks Big?? See,she has made alot of her owm statements and you seem to have her on your mind alot.That is what people who think for themselves do,they make an impression,good or bad,they make an impression. I doubt highly you have made an impression anywhere.
So,you just keep jumping in here and there,clinging on to the coat tails of those you envy the most and someday,dear,when you are able,you might grow up think for yourself. Best of luck with that. I am sure Butt Looks Big loves that you can't seem to get her off your mind! It's a weird fixation ( pretty creepy actually)but you help to keep her alive .
Lauren,Nor do educated people turn to name calling to get their points across. Since your nanny is so highly educated,perhaps she can give you a few pointers on how to debate without stooping to such a level.
As far as the playground remark,yeah,whatever!!
Besides,I doubt highly since you pay someone to mother your children,that you would be at the playground to see such a thing anyhow.
I'm a mom..your father beat you and humiliated you. I am sorry that happened. Please know that there is a vast difference between a spanking and a beating with a spoon.No child should ever feel the way you did. I was spanked as a child but never felt humiliated nor did I ever fear eitehr of my parents or my grandma who also swatted our butts. And,to answer your remark"In the past I have used an alias,but on this thread,NO,I did not"
I chose the WDA because there are so many initials used for monikers and I thought it was fun.
Funny,I bet all of you non-spankers are pro abortion. So,you won't swat a two yr oldon the butt but you support the killing of an unwanted baby. How on earth do you people follow your own rules,they all seem to be applied when they fit your own needs.
hhmmm. I was not implying cm was Janes only fan. I am sorry you missed my point.
I myself am a fan though I disagree with her delivery method.
The Whole Damn Alphabet types her responses like a sociopath. Look closely and you will see what I mean. Is "awfuLLy" a homage to LL Bean or Linda Lou?
Do you realize that the government has to make so many laws because of the number of stupid people in this country? Unfortunately, we had to make it a law that you can't have sex with your neighbor's sheep. I loathe that because of idiots like you, the governement is actually considering making a law against spanking children.
I have worked with mentally retarded children and they never attempted to run in the street "umpteen" times. What kind of lunatic children are you raising and just how unable are you to set boundaries and rules?
When a child is going to touch something hot, you GRAB the childs hand QUICKLY. You get down to the child's level and look in the child's eyes and you very deliberately say "No, HOT, DANGER" in a low voice.
"When a child is going to touch something hot, you GRAB the childs hand QUICKLY. You get down to the child's level and look in the child's eyes and you very deliberately say "No, HOT, DANGER" in a low voice."
BRILLIANT, Ro!! It always blows my friggin' mind when I read that a poster will spank a child "only when danger presents itself". Haha! Unbelievable. For trying to step out into traffic, reaching for hot items on the stove, etc.... all you NEED to do is just grab the child by the wrist or hand and just like Ro said: "No, HOT, DANGER"... or DON'T or STOP or whatever the scene calls for. You do NOT NEED TO SPANK YOUR CHILD!!!!
I'm a Mom and Ro, exactly. If there has been a complete lack of effective parenting for the first 5 years of a child's life, then yes, it will be that much more difficult to START parenting effectively instead of just swatting randomly hoping to gain their attention. No chance at gaining their true respect, I'm afraid, at least not after they are old enough to reflect on how incapable their mom and dad really were.
And Metronanny, so what if a majority of Americans think it's OK to hit children as a form of "discipline"? Adolph Hitler was elected by a majority, does that mean his politics and agendas were good? A majority of men in certain countries think that female genital mutilation is not only acceptable but beneficial, does that mean they they are correct in their sick opinions?
maybe Jane Does is just getting fed up with the multi-monikered promotion of abuse and ignorance under the lie of being a whole group of people. It's her blog, she can comment and moderate as she sees fit, and anyone else is welcome to start their own of they don't like the way she runs hers. It's a benefit of being the blog owner.
Sorry for all the typos!
spank you very much, calimom! great post! ooops, I mean thank you!
Jane has no tolerance for those who spank children or think spanking is brilliant parenting. I don't understand why anyone would be confused why she wouldn't promote an anti spanking dialogue on her site. I get it.
I have to say that spanking another person's child is outright creepy. When I was interviewing for a nanny, I didn't even want to hire someone who was spanked as a child!
To the person who brought up the child running in the street umpteen times. Jane's modus operandi as a child care professional was to talk about things like street safety before the child was standing on the curb.
You might want to buy a book or something.
Jennifer LeCarlo,I am sure there are many that agree with you & Jane,that is obvious by the posts above. However as a blog moderator & owner,being objective is VERY important,especially when you invite bloggers to "challenge isyn.blogspot.com's blogs and features". I took the opportunity to,very respectively,do just that with the subject at hand and I did so without name calling or being nasty..(unlike,cm,ro,Lauren or Jane.)
Jane may feel passionately about it but if her invite is not sincere,perhaps she should rethink having it at the top of every post especially those dealing with spanking. I respect jane as the owner of this blog however calling names because a blogger does not agree with your opinions(and that is all they are,they are all OUR opinions)is hardly a professional way to act. I have come to expect it from many who have posted here but not the blog owner.
As well,I respect your right to not spank & to not hire anyone who was spanked as a child. That is your right and I am pretty sure we still have such freedoms in this country. Please respect mine as well. I would never dream of telling you how to raise or discipline your child.
ro,It's mutual dear,we don't like each other,however,when you can provide me with your degree giving you the right and the knowledge to diagnos me,I might give your posts the time of day.
In my experience it is angry,name-calling,uneducated people who are unable to join in a debate without acting like sophmoric teenager's who's only rebuttle is to call names.Perhaps you can learn to act as calm when responding to the bloggers you disagree with as you claim to do with the children in your life??!
Just grab their attention QUICKLY, get down to the bloggers level and say"no" I disagree and very deliberately make your statement. YOU DON'T HAVE TO NAME CALL!
In other words WDA and all her other monikers are way pissed at being busted and think it's just not fair.
WDA, excellent point about the abortion issue.
I find it laughable that so many on here decry the use of spanking and extol the virtues of calm reasoning and then are unable to practice it themselves. Hypocrites.
And no, I am not WDA using a different moniker. As hard as this may be to believe, more than one person supports the use of spanking as part of the disciplinary process.
Christ on a cracker, does that alphabet person actually believe that she "hasn't been nasty"? Excuse me while I pick my jaw up off the ground.
Rock on Jane!
Cali-Mom, no need to try to prove the majority is usually wrong, look who they put in white house this past election!
Suffice to say, the subject of spanking has been discussed ad nauseam on this blog. Feel free to challenge whatever content you like, but be clear that the position on this, my blog, will always remain that spanking is unnecessary, that those who believe in spanking lean toward the ignorant and that spanking is hitting.
ig-no-rant /ˈɪgnərənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ig-ner-uhnt] Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective 1. lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned:
2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: 3. uninformed; unaware.
4. due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.
It appeared to me that most on here that made the case for spanking did so in an intelligent manner. They seemed quite aware that spanking should be used as part of a larger plan for discipline, they seemed to understand the information regarding both the cons and pros of spanking. They all seemed informed and knowledgeable. Because they did not agree with you Jane, does not make them lean towards ignorance. That just means they don't share your opinion.
Also, it appeared to me that numbers of those posting both for and against spanking were just about even. So while your position on spanking might be against it, those who post here seem rather split for and against. Of course, this is your blog, as you felt the need to point out, but a blog like this matters only if people bother to read it and participate.
And I liked the spanking to abortion analogy as well. Excellent point. The same people who rail against a loving parent disciplining their child will likely condone the butchering of a baby in it's last trimester because it's the "mother's choice." Well then that argument condones spanking as that too, is the parents choice.
The abortion-spanking analogy is as stupid and useless as you and your definition of ingnorant. We don't have to take it quite so literally, in my opinion, ignorant people also like to BEAT A DEAD HORSE.
Why don't you go visit one of your sikko chatrooms with your daddy spank fantasies, where on your knees you can say, Thanks for the spanks.
You sick pig.
2 people pretending to be more does not count as a majority, or even as an even split. And all that has been said by spank supporters in THIS thread is that adults SHOULD spank kids to make sure they know who's in charge. And World's Dumbest, after bragging in the other thread about stealing pills from her employers and popping them on the job, made the argument that she considers herself to be of good moral character because her mother spanked her a lot.
If you actually consider *those* to be intelligent arguments, then rational discussion with you on the topic is as useful as trying to teach a pig to sing.
Why do you do that calimom? why do you think there are only 2 people pretending to be more?Only two people of an entire blog of mommies,nannies and others who believe in spanking? That is crazy. Do some research girl..
You always go there,who cares if someone uses a different moniker at times? This is an anonymous blog. What don't you get about that?
I have used no other moniker on this thread to make my case about spanking or to voice an opinion about Jane at all!!
You are out of your ever living gourd and for you to claim that I have,as you did @752 yesterday,just proves what an ASS you can be and are at times!
If you want to challenge me,go for it. Show me a post where I have argued my case under another moniker on this thread and I will lv for good.
Your end of the bargain,when you can't..you will shut the hell up already with that whole damn stupid"different moniker" crap and not bring it up again!
If you decide not to take my challenge,I will gracefully accept that your post was incorrect.
I sure do enjoy me some Cali Mom comments. I don't know how many people are supporting spanking, but I am guessing it isn't many. The notion that someone chose the moniker "thanks for the spanks", it's so rooted in S&M folley, it makes me cringe.
Cali,
I am so flattered that you mention me in one of your posts about a topic I brought up a while back.
I need to know are you secretly the mommy from California with the 14 kids?
I am so done with this spanking topic.
So now I'm a pig. and stupid. Great to see the evolved, enlightened side is so eloquent with their arguments they have set the name-calling aside and begun to offer rational debate.
Since my father died of cancer when I was four, I really don't entertain fantasies regarding him other than to wish he had been there to see me graduate college, or dance with me at my wedding. The fact that someone mentioned having 'daddy spanking fantasies' shows where their mind is. And it's SICKO dear, not sikko. If you're going to attack someone and attempt to prove you are a more intelligent person, you might want to figure out how to spell check before you post. :)
I chose the moniker Thanks for the Spanks, because my mother, left a young widow with three children, did an excellent job raising me. I have wonderful memories of my birthdays, Christmases, Halloweens, all on a shoe string budget. I never remember her spanking me in anger. And I remember the spanks were few and far between, just as they have been with my own well-adjusted children. She made me the person I am today. I've two beautiful children and a loving husband of more than two decades. She taught me to be kind and courteous, even to those who cannot be, to have an open mind and to listen to everyone's opinion with respect. How sad that so many here were not taught the same valuable lessons.
Having spent a brief time chatting here, I can truly say "thanks for the spanks, and so much more mom"
TFTS, I am sorry to hear about your fathers passing at such a young age.
Is is obvious your mother did a wonderful job as you seem very level headed and are able to realize the difference between a spanking and child abuse.
I enjoy your posts.
Chachi,you bring nothing to the table but name calling. makes you sound as bright as I am sure you are!
both you & jojo should really think before you just open your mouths as neither of you has anything of value to say.
jojo it is no surprise that you enjoy cm. You are cut from the same cloth.
Thank you for your kind words, The Whole Damn Alphabet, although I am sure you will be further accused of having a conversation with yourself; at least we both know we are not one in the same person! :) I enjoy your posts as well.
I don't know who wrote the Comment Policy for this blog, but I suggest everyone here go and re-read it. I thought there was mention of not assuming to know who is posting and I think another part clearly makes a statement regarding personal attacks. Well being called "sick pig" or changing someone's moniker to "World's Stupidest" in response certainly seems personal to me. Perhaps personal attacks are permitted so long as the attackers views agree with the blog owner's.
Regardless, I think I have all but exhausted my desire to further debate the benefits of responsible spanking. The proof of which is evident in my mother's result:
Three successful, professional children, each of us in happy marriages that total 77 years combined and no likelihood of divorce. All of her adult grandchildren, who were all also spanked, successful in careers and relationships. My own teen-aged children do quite well in school. They have never been suspended, assigned detention or seen the inside of the principals office for any disciplinary reason. None of us are smokers, drug users or excessive drinkers. Thank God none of us are on Prozac, Zanac, Wellbutrin or the like. None of us have ever set foot in a therapist's office because we were malcontent, maladjusted, suicidal, or harboring resentful feelings towards anyone. Once again, thank God for that. But hey, perhaps we are the exception to the rule.
The pity you feel your mother causes you to whitewash the fact that she hit you to keep you in line. She's your mother, you don't want to admit that she had other options but out of laziness or lack of ability, she simply chose to use force on tiny children.
The point is not what ye spankees or the children of the spanked achieve but the hardcore fact that all of the greatness each of these precious children has achieved could have been just as easily achieved with intelligent guidance, limits and appropriate, non physical discipline.
See the light.
the whole damn alphabet & Thanks for the Spanks
The both of you spew nothing but nonsense and diarrhea.
No one is listening to you.
SUA..well obviously we got YOUR attention.. just because people don't agree with our veiws does not mean they are not listening. Some are capable of doing it in an adult manner & with an opened mind is all. Something you are obviously NOT capable of.
And I really don't care weather I have an audience or not. An exchange between two posters is still allowed. So back off sparky!
sparky? lmao. you are such a dweeb!
whole damn, you obviously have NO life. you sit on your computer all day long trying to shove your nonsense down everyone's throat.
i guess you have no plans for valentine's day, lol.
The above post was mine not sure why it did not save my moniker!
-Manhattan Mamma
I have watched this thread with great interest and I have to say, regardless of whether you support spanking or not, you have to hand it to Thanks, she managed to make her point without insult. I hope you stick around. Your mom did a great job!
Mitchi, I see your point but it is impossible to say how Thanks and her siblings would have turned out if you changed any aspect of their lives, including the spanking. What she does prove is that children can be spanked and grow up with no lasting negative effects.
The abortion challenge was far from stupid. It raised a very good point. It is a bit hypocritical to advocate a woman's right to have a late term abortion in the 6th or 7th month of pregnancy when it is a known fact that many babies survive and thrive born in just the 5th month,, and then condemn another woman who swats her three year old on the butt.
For the record, I have spanked my own kids a handful of times. I don't dicipline them as I was, which was with a belt but I do many things differently from my parents. I don't pity my parents nor do I feel any animosity towards them. They did what they thought was best. They were less educated than I. I never truly believed they didn't love me.
I do think our society has gone a little hysterical lately over quite a few things, from global warming, to being overly PC, to awarding degrees of excellence in participation to every kid in a contest so no one's feelings get hurt, to calling anyone who dares raise their voice or put palm to bottom of their child an abuser.
Metronanny, I loved the comparison of being lovingly spanked to being hit by the mean girl. As someone who went to a rough high school I can totally relate! I hope you decide to come back and offer your opinions again, so many of the good posters have left.
I have noticed that often on this blog, when a debate becomes heated, many new monikers, on both sides pop up. I don't think one side or the other is exclusively guilty of making more than one post under different names. In fact, I think it rarely happens at all. I do think there are certain people on this blog who cannot fathom the idea that more than one or two people might actually disagree with them once and a while. I also believe these some people are unable to accept those opposing opinions graciously. However, spanking is an extremely touchy subject, and many people have strong feelings against it for their own personal reasons. Tolerance and understanding is key here.
Feb 13, 2009 4:15:00 PM
Oh jeez. I have been here from the get go and the abortion comparison is probably the stupidest thing I have ever read on this blog and in my life.
No one in their right mind advocates late term abortions.
Anyone who is a proponent of choice may be any combination of other things, from anarchist to pessimist to someone who tests shampoos on red tailed squirrels to anything. It isn't related, it has no impact and it makes no sense to bring it up. Hopping on your abortion soap dish any chance you get just makes you look like more of an idiot.
The only way someone can look like an idiot is if they rant and rave and no gives their nonsense the dignity of a direct response.
Ro, please educate yourself. Many people, presumably in their right mind, support late term abortion. So much so that several states, including New York, allow abortion through the 24th week. Even in many of the states where it is technically banned, it is still a simple enough matter to obtain one.
I didn't see anyone taking a stand on either side of the abortion issue. I saw one person make an analogy, others support it, and others attack it.
I've been around for quite some time as well, albeit as a rare and usually anonymous participant, and I have to say, I've noticed that "stupid" and "idiot" and their various forms are two of the most overused words by a certain small group of people on here. They use it indiscriminately, whenever they don't agree with someone. Good Lord people, if you must resort to name calling at least make use of the many free on line thesauruses and mix it up a little! At the very least add Na Na Na Na Hoo Hoo at the end to break up the monotony.
Okay, you cockered clapper-clawed nut-hook.
Better? ;)
worlds best nanny said...
"Cali,
...I need to know are you secretly the mommy from California with the 14 kids?"
Word's Dumbest, why do you need to know? Did you steal from her, also?
It seems that this discussion here has gone a bit past what the initial post was about. Not that I haven't enjoyed reading it.
To hit on the initial issue, I think that the nanny in question probably didn't have a good reason to be disciplining the child. I definitely think it is not right to spank a child in public.
That being said, I am now going to take the unfavorable side and say that in general, I am okay with spanking. It is obviously not the only means of discipline I use, and personally, I rarely spank my kids. However, I have no problem doing it if I feel the situation warrants it.
Now, I want to explain quickly why I think it is okay. First off, when kids are small, they don't understand things well. You can't sit and say to 2 year old Jimmy "don't touch the stove because it will burn you". It just doesn't seem to work. At that point I most certainly do not advocate flat out spanking their bottom. Personally, I prefer a slap on the hand with small kids. It stops them and does not hurt them, but they remember that.
I was spanked as a child, but if you asked me to call up one incident, I couldn't. That means I am clearly not traumatized. I just remember knowing it was a possible consequence if I hit my little brother, or did something bad.
I know that this is a serious hot-button issue with a lot of people. I definitely think it is a personal choice as a parent. I, as a nanny, have worked for families who have asked me to spank in certain situations and that is their right as the employer to ask me to discipline their child that way.
Now, hopefully no one is going to flat out insult me for this post. I think we are bigger than that.
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