Saturday

CL - WTF?

Photobucket Saturday, February 21, 2009
.... What?!

Professional Non Smoking Nanny Needed Immediately! (Charlotte)
Couple seeks dedicated, reliable, non smoking, educated, very clean nanny for our toddler. This ideal nanny is needed immediately. Rate of pay is $9.50 per hour, and you are paid via paycheck twice a month, on the 15th & 30th. Must have references, a clean, reliable vehicle, and proof insurance/valid drivers license. We want our child to be kept active with creative things to do every day such as reading, art, trips to the park/museum, etc. TV is OK as long as it is Noggin or another kid associated channel. We don't prefer stay at home moms unless you are certain you can handle your child and ours with equal attention. You must be very clean, with a warm demeanor and genuine liking for children. We are not looking for a BABYSITTER, we are looking for a DEDICATED, Loving, NANNY, there is a big difference. You must be at least 18 years of age. Our child would be kept in your home, until we've had 90 days to make sure all is well to be trusted in our home alone and a steady connection with our child has been established. We perform raise reviews every 3 months, and benefits are offered after 120 days. This position is taxed regarding your paycheck, and a contract will be put in place specifying all of our terms. We desire to have two trial days with you to make sure you are a good fit, and proceed from there. My ours(the mom #1) are from 9:30-6:30 M-F. Our child would need to be kept during these hours, and occasionally on some Saturdays/Sundays for "couple time" as one of us is in the Marines, so our time is limited and sparse together. This is an example of the regimen we'd need to be followed: 9:00am- Pick up of our child from my office Breakfast, breakfast snack upon arrival at your home(though our child would be fed something light before coming to you), interactive learning activities Noon/1:00pm- Lunch, more interactive activities, possible light nap not to exceed an hour and twenty minutes 4/5PM-Generous snack, as our child eats dinner at home. If you prepare dinner around this time, that would be fine if you feed them dinner, just preferably a snack and a small amount of dinner so they can eat at home with us. 6:30pm- Drop off of our child at my office. We are not paying over this rate per hour, and will not be covering any additional expenses. Leading child care centers charge $213.00 per week for 12 hour care, meals, pickup, and interactive activities and more for toddlers our child's age, so we are compensating well above the pay range. Our office is located in the Business district of University, so if the distance is too far for you, please do NOT reply. If interested, and qualified, please contact us immediately by replying to this ad with a valid phone number, and availability for an interview as we do need someone immediately. We are not interested in daycare centers, stay at home mothers incapable of handling more than one child, or people without their own home and transportation. We do not mean to sound difficult, we have just found we're having to spell every detail out as many people on this site are uncertain about their work capabilties, accepting our terms, and actualy possessing the traits we seek. Thanks a lot!
Original URL: http://charlotte.craigslist.org/kid/1042998829.html

Response from angry CL reader:

Re: Professional Non Smoking Nanny Needed Immediately!
"Our child would be kept in your home, until we've had 90 days to make sure all is well to be trusted in our home alone and a steady connection with our child has been established."

SO YOUR VALUABLES AT YOUR HOME ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAT THE WELFARE OF YOUR CHILD IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. YOU WOULD TRUST SOMEONE TO KEEP YOUR CHILD IN THEIR HOME BEFORE KEEPING YOUR CHILD IN YOUR HOME?? STRANGE

"If you prepare dinner around this time, that would be fine if you feed them dinner."

YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL IF THE NANNY WANTS TO PROVIDE DINNER, "THAT WOULD BE FINE" - HOW KIND OF YOU TO LET SOMEONE ELSE FEED YOUR CHILD

"Pick up our child from the office and Drop off of our child at my office."

YOU CAN'T EVEN LEAVE THE OFFICE TO DROP OFF AND PICK UP YOUR CHILD? OR TRYING TO SAVE EXTRA TRAVEL TIME, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY OVER THAT HUGE $9.50

"Possible light nap not to exceed an hour and twenty minutes."

POOR CHILD HAS LIMITS ON HOW LONG SHE CAN TAKE A NAP. WOW. CONTRACT, YOUR TERMS, ETC. YOU DON'T MEAN TO SOUND "DIFFICULT"?? YOU SOUND LIKE YOUR CHILD IS A BUSINESS DEAL -- VERY SAD IF THE PAY WAS SO GREAT AT $9.50 AN HOUR YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO TAKE THE TIME TO JUSTIFY IT IN COMPARISON TO DAYCARE, WHICH HOUSES MANY MORE THAN ONE CHILD AT A TIME, SO IN ACTUALITY YOU ARE CERTAINLY NOT PAYING ABOVE AVERAGE. YOU ARE ACTUALLY PAYING BELOW AVERAGE WHICH IS $10/HR, NOT INCLUDE PICK UP AND DELIVERY OF YOUR CHILD IN NEED OF A NANNY IMMEDIATELY -- IMMEDIATELY? GOOD LUCK FINDING SOMEONE AT ALL. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOUR LITTLE ONE.
Original URL: http://charlotte.craigslist.org/kid/1044079233.html
____________________________________________________________
Special Thanks to the following Readers for their Submissions: SF, MissDee, Fawn, Wendytww, northjerseynanny and cdhere25... all of you did a great job! Remember: CL-WTF will be Posted every Saturday... please send next weeks Ads HERE.

TO READ THE REST OF THIS WEEKS SUBMISSIONS: PLEASE CLICK HERE!

75 comments:

Marypoppin'pills said...

Sorry it took so long to get this up today, I've been having some problems with my computer and it's been really chaotic around here, so thanks to those that e-mailed asking where CL-WTF was for being so patient.

On another note, I was thinking of changing the format just a bit. Since so many people are having a rough time out there and we don't want to seem insensitive to that, what I was thinking of doing for the "How Much?" section was: I would prefer to Publish the Ads that are offering just the really obnoxiously low wage. I would also love to see more of the hilarious, crazy and weird Ads being Submitted. I know they're out there!

Thank you to those that have been so supportive and for those that haven't been so fond of this Feature, I'm hoping this slight change will spark your interest in the future! :)

Nanny Taxi said...

The country is going to hell in a hand basket if $3 an hour is the only thing someone can pay for childcare! The economy is so bad someone will probably take that position just to have a paycheck!

Where are all these wacked out nannies coming from?

honest nanny said...

#17: she's only willing to pay $50/week for full time?! that's like $1-$2/hour!!! wow. that's incredible.

#11 & #12 were just as shocking!

this weeks posts seem to have the lowest rates i've seen so far!

Lindsey said...

Here is the thing. We all know times are tough right now. Hell we are having Mac and cheese with hot dogs, because things are so tight.
I feel for these families that are struggling to make ends meet, but this is exactly why I stay home with my kids, I am not willing to offer someone $5/hr to watch my 3 kids under the age of six. While you may be able to find someone who is genuine and caring for that cheap, the odds of finding someone good enough to leave my children with for that price are gonna be pretty slim. So am I willing to risk my childrens well being, no. If I worked I would ony be making $10-12 an hour most of my pay would be going to the nanny and it wouldn't even be good pay for her. So I save my self having to insult someone with the low pay, and I also get to take care of my own children.

It's simple. If you can't afford a real nanny, this includes someone who comes to your home and spends 8+ hours of quality one on one time with your child, then you should look into a daycare, no it may not be what you want but we can't always have what we want out of life. Or don't work at all, make a budget, make it work. It about priorities and doing without and doing what you have to do to make it.

a goodmommy said...

Please stop posting this stuff. please.

Crazy People said...

Wow, that first ad was so...illogical. They prefer someone who is not a SAHM, but they want the person to go to the effort of fully equipping their home for a toddler for the 90 day trial period? And why would you trust someone with your child but not in your home?

I could be wrong said...

I have to agree with Lindsey. If you cannot afford a nanny/babysitter, you have many options. A)stay home with your kids, B)look into home daycares, C)find a childcare swap with another struggling mom, D)ask family and friends to provide free or low-cost childcare.
But do you really think your child will be getting good care from someone who is trying to support herself on $3 per hour? That person would probably be too stressed out about her own survival to really worry about your child.

Momma Bear said...

About #17: Even an in-home daycare will need more than $50/week full time! I am Des Moines, 9 miles south of Ankeny, and I charge $125 a week for full time care for an in-home daycare!

a sad nanny said...

Lindsey,

I want to hug you so hard right now. The pay game is such a point of frustration for me right now.

*hugs*

a reader said...

Forgive me, I don't understand what the deal is with #6?

"You must post a background check (your expense, not ours)" is the only possible negative I located.

a. Yes, sittercity's background check is not as thorough as it should be and isn't really worth anything in my opinion.

However, I can't imagine that that was why this was submitted. I imagine the point was the expense but:

b. A sittercity background check costs $8 and lasts forever.

Otherwise, the "AM" v. "PM" thing appears a simple error.

SitterSarah said...

Hm...I posted this, but I don't know where it went...reposting. Sorry if it duplicates.

Some crazy stuff this week. It always surprises me how little some people are willing to pay for childcare. $3 an hour? That is the most ridiculous thing! And that one woman looking to pay only $50 a week for full time childcare for an infant!?! 2 months old!

People, who will trust a nanny who only takes $50 a week to care full time for an infant?

That, in my opinion, is the worst post on here. It just scares me.

The only case I see when that is even remotely acceptable is if you have a very nice family member caring for the baby. Who else accepts such a low rate?

As to the woman who wants a nanny to work in their own home for months before being allowed in the child's own home. That's so weird. Most nannies I know of don't have a great home. That's kinda one reason we work outside of it. And are they placing their valuables higher than their child's comfort? Kids are ten times more comfortable in their own home than in a strange one. And that is far from the only thing that this particular post has wrong.

As always, I find these postings entertaining, as to how crazy some parents are, but man are they disturbing!

TiredGirl said...

Great response someone posted to that rediculous CL ad. I love how that person thinks they are generous for paying a person more for ONE child than a daycare, which handles many children.

TC said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
TC said...

I emailed number 4. I pretty much said I hoped I wasn't out of line but asked if her add was a joke or if her son had a disability and needed help. This is her response:

no its not--and your not out of line, i understand wondering why. My son has asperger's syndrome and he is very immature in that i guess I babied him when he was growing up. I just dont feel comfortable leaving him alone.

unapologetic said...

Wait, #4 is an Aspie?

That is just sad.

I won't bother with details, but let's just say I know a thing or two about people with Asperger's Syndrome. Yeah, some social situations can be a little more difficult because the social protocols aren't as obvious to those afflicted with this condition, but they're not crippled.

Nowhere near in fact. They remain capable human beings, more often than not exhibiting considerable prowess in a few valuable skills and/or specialization in one.

Einstein is believed to have potentially had Asperger's Syndrome, as is Thomas Jefferson. The social situation mess can be overcome, even without the help of a therapist, if the Aspie focuses their energy on it.

The "kid" is not a bum because of the condition. He gives good people a bad name. He doesn't need a sitter, he needs to be thrown out or at least forced to get a job and become a productive member of society.

unapologetic said...

Addendum:

I emailed and asked. Her son is 34.

If anyone's brain resets on this, I don't blame you.

worlds best nanny said...

#4 is what happens when you mollycoddle your youngster instead of showing them who's boss. You will need a nanny to care for your adult child.

unapologetic said...

worlds best nanny,

That is baseless and absolute nonsense. Extremities and balance. You can't take and simplify something so complex as child rearing with a statement as simple as that.

In fact, recent research is indicative of quite the opposite in play. Perhaps you should try picking up a book or scientific journal sometime, or take a class, instead of repeating the same tired misinformed stereotypes over and over, ay?

Is the world flat and the Sun orbit the Earth for you as well? She had to have screwed up elsewhere.

You really are a troll. Worlds best troll, I'm terrified that you call yourself a nanny.

Go back under your bridge, I think I hear a billy goat crossing.

Village said...

WOW That #1. Could we be more rigid? Thank goodness for #2, the response. Smart editing. I hope #1 finds a saint for that child, because if a child ever needed divine intervention . . . It is improper to say #1 shouldn't have anymore children? If it is, please accept my apologies.

Great WTF this week, but those poor kids.

worlds best nanny said...

Dear unapologetic,

I may have mentioned it in a few of my posts. On the outside I am everything a family would want. I have over 10 years nanny experience, I have glowing letters of recommendation from prominent families (one a world wide known doctor who works at Mass General Hospital. Another one was a minor sports figure.) I am a thin, willowy woman who is near 6 feet tall. I am soft spoken. All my charges from past and present adore me, because I keep things light and fun.
The parents love me because I make the kids seem happy, the house is in order, and their lives just run smoother when I am around.
On the inside I am a different story. If an opportunity arises, I will steal from my employer (you know about the Vicodin, but there are other things, ie: money, wine glasses, food, CDs,shampoo,garbage bags, an indoor grill, bottles of wine, a 6 pack of beer...to name just a few.) I bad mouth my employers whenever I get a chance. I don't do any housework all day but at the last 20 minutes before a parent gets home I will whip out the vacuum cleaner.
I do not hurt my charges, I do not ignore or neglect them either. I have never had to spank them...yet.
I am making $850 a week, cash. They give me a credit card and a gas card which I never abuse. I get use of their minivan. I cannot be the only nanny who is like this in the world, but it's not like any parent has taken the time to find out. Troll?? Hardly! I am a woman who knows a good thing when she sees it and I will do what I have to do to keep it.

Philly Nanny said...

World's best:

If any of that were true, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be posting it here because giving a physical description, references, salary and the kind of car you use would make it terribly easy for your current or past employers to identify you.

You should definitely try your hand at writing fiction, but take it somewhere else.

worlds best nanny said...

Perhaps you are right! My current employers do not know about this website. With my past employers, what are they going to do now? It's my word against theirs.

Gimme a break, not all potential nanny families are nearly as paranoid as you. Some are pretty stupid!

Philly Nanny said...

WBN:

Well your word is printed here for anyone to see, and you've just admitted to stealing. If your current employer called any of your references they'd know how to get in contact with the family. Not that I believe any of the crap you've written (it sounds like an after-school special from the early 90s) but if it's the truth, i find it hard to believe you're any smarter than the stupid families you've worked for. No one commits a crime thinking that they'll get caught. Some get away with it, but those who don't are usually found out because they do something stupid like bragging about it on the internet.

cali mom said...

Amen Philly Nanny and unapologetic.

WBN may or may not be as much of a criminal as she brags about here, but we know for certain that she is dumb as a banana slug, a complete asshole, and definitely a troll with nothing of value to add to any topic she yaps about. Scary indeed that there are parents dumb enough to keep stuffing money down the toilet of childcare she represents just because they must not be paying close enough attention to realize there is MUCH better available, and that their children deserve it. Maybe one of the really good nannies on this board who is looking for a better job will replace her soon.

ohwhynot said...

The first CL posters submitted a new ad on CL, considerably toned down. I couldn't help it-I HAD to post a response to the $3 an hour people (I'm in Madison, too).

Oh, and for the record: I think World's Best if full of crap.

worlds best nanny said...

I AM a nanny and this is where we go to laugh or complain about all of you!

Try to figure out my moniker there, you'll be hard pressed because there are many like me.

http://www.nannynetwork.com/Naniboard/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi

Village said...

RE: #1. They want two (2) trial days.

What you bet they want those 'trial' days to be free?

unapologetic said...

worlds best troll,

Apparently you didn't get this the first time around. I am a nanny, in fact I think most of us are nannies here.

You give good people like me a bad name and hurt the profession. You are not a nanny, you're a little girl who is playing make-believe nanny.

Real nannies care.

cali mom said...

It's both funny and sad that she thinks anyone here would care enough about her to waste some time reading the entitled whinings of a handful of ignorant, overpaid babysitters like her and her imaginary friends.

Kate in PA said...

Okay, WBN, I'm on NannyNetwork too and I don't know who you are, but I agree with unapologetic. You give good nannies a bad name. And I don't know why you're bringing NN into it, because most of the nannies on there are professional and sound nothing at all like you.

I will leave it at that because you're already getting too much attention (which is obviously what you wanted).

chick said...

I couldn't help myself. I emailed #1 the following:

"In response to the rate of pay you are offering, you need to remember that in daycare your child would be one of 8 - 12 kids, depending on his age.

So really, you should be offering 8 to 12 times what you'd pay for daycare to a nanny who will be providing one on one attention to your child.

Of course, a weekly salary of ~2K is over the top, but you could at least offer to pay $12 - 15 per hour, and supply food for your child. No nanny is going to be willing to pay out of her pocket to feed your kid!

And what's up with sending your child to a stranger's house for 90 days? You trust a person with your kid, but not in your house?

Good luck, you'll need it!"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, not very tactful. I know!

I received the following in response:

"In regards to your reply, it is very frustrating that already when this process is hard enough, people have an opinion about something which doesnt concern them or either they havent taken the time to inquire more about.

the $9.50 per hour is a BASE rate. WE would of COURSE cover fuel, food, and money for our child's activities, so it would actually exceed $17.00 per hour. We are new at this, and only are giving a GENERAL idea for the right sitter who would appease us to be a good fit for our child, and proceed from there. Finding care for your child is not an easy task by far, and it is always safe to ASK QUESTIONS, rather than assume the worst about someone. I think your rpely was very unfair, with a pre disposition that we would try to short change someone when you dont even know us! I think it would have been more respectful for you to simply ask "would i have to pay for food, etc", aka asking questions!

in addition, we did not post a rough draft itinerary to say "this is how we have to have things ran", we jsut described a general idea of how we would expect a day to go as many people on craigslist ask families"what would you expect a day for your child to go like". regarding the child being at someone's home, personally my mother ran a licensed in home daycare for 25 years and i know there are good people in this world who love kids, that dont require invasive measures such as nanny cams. your child can be susceptible to harms way (unfortunately) in any enviroment, i feel best decisions are made with your gut feeling, asking questions, and just common sense. in addition our child is at the age where he relays any issues he has and has a close relationship with my partner and i so that eases the fear, vs if he was an infant incapable of expressing his dissatisfaction, hurt, etc.

we did not take anything you said the wrong way, because all we are concerned about is our family and the well being of our child. the right sitter for us will reply, and take the time to elaborate of somethign they might need clarification on before they assume and tell us what they think they know, and have no idea as to what we really need. the way you reply to something when you dont take the time to inquire, so you wont assume the wrong thing, is not a very attractive look for someone to trust with your child as well.... so perhaps there is somethign to be learned both ways.

best regards."

I then read their new ad which can be found here:

http://charlotte.craigslist.org/kid/1045076767.html

and responded as folllows:

"I apologize for the tone in my initial response. Having read your reply, I see that your intentions are good, and that you simply didn't convey your plans in full to CL readers.

That said, I would like to offer a few suggestions. I hope you take them in the spirit they are intended. As a professional nanny, I have a vested interest in helping people find a terrific caregiver, and ads like yours prompt me to offer my help.

I'm including your original ad here, because I think most of the issues you may be having come from the ad itself. I'm sure you have the best of intentions, and want the best for your child, but I believe you could find that special person you want with a better, clearer, less confusing ad. I promise to be succinct!

****Professional nanny needed! You must be a non-smoker, and have the following: Solid references, a valid drivers license, proof of insurance, and a safe reliable vehicle. We need you to be neat, organized, and willing to provide our child with active and creative play opportunities. We encourage visits to museums and other educational activities, and will, of course, pay for those outings as well as paying the IRS mandated mileage rate for all trips made relating to our child.

Because we are working to sell our current home, we need a nanny who is willing to care for our child in HER home for the next 3 months. We will provide ALL needed equipment, including childproofing materials. We will also provide a supply of diapers, changes of clothes for our child, a weekly food allowance, and a bonus at the end of this time in recognition of your willingness to start working for us under such unusual circumstances.

Your typical day would begin at 9 am, when you pick our child, who is a boy/girl aged X, up at our workplace. We have a general schedule in mind for our child's days, and we are also eager to hear how you would schedule days with our child. Your day would end at 6:30, when you drop our child off at our office.

We are offering $450 per week in salary for a 47.5 hour work week. We would also like to be able to schedule regular weekend "babysitting" hours for additional pay, and we will, of course, pay standard OT rates for hours worked in excess of 47.5 per week. We offer raise reviews every 90 days, and will add benefits to your package after 120 days. We pay legally, meaning we withhold taxes. If you are not willing to be paid legally, please do not respond to our ad.

If you would like to have the chance to interview for this position, and you live within a short distance of the Business district of University, please email us your contact information, your resume, and your cover letter. We will contact you for a phone interview ASAP, and will schedule in-person interviews with select candidates. After an in-person interview, we will need to contact your references if you seem like a good fit, and then we would like to have a 2 day trial period for each of the final candidates before we make our decision.

Thank you for your time!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I will let you know if I hear back from them! :-)

Now we're telling people how to write cl ads? said...

Chick, that would have pissed me off if you sent me that... let people write their ads... people will either respond or not.

chick said...

Well, a poorly written ad will get responses from less employable people, IMO. So, why not try to make an ad readable and comprehensible?

If they don't like it, they can always delete. And if they're deeply offended, they can tell me to buzz off.

chick said...

WBN, I am on to your game! You are performing a massive fakeout operation here, aren't you? You think that we are so intrigued by your petty thievery and bad attitude that we are all cruising every nanny related site we can find to try to ID you!

Very clever of you to misdirect us by posting your "description". However, we are not as clueless as you would like to believe!

We know that since you lie compulsively, you are most likely a short, chubby brunette with an abrasive accent who works for slave wages and is scared of each and every lowlife employer you have had.

You can't fool US!!!!!

{cue evil laughter}

a reader said...

chick,

#1 is a waste of time, of this I'm sure.

a reader said...

#14 - 16, do you have any idea the legal liability the nanny or sitter would have if something happened to the children while they were sleeping?

Holy crap no, you can't sleep.

a reader said...

* Re: 14-16. I'd also like to add that I looked up minimum wage law in her state, she's in clear violation of it. Household employee, $6.55 minimum.

wikiplugs said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Nanny Taxi said...

Why are we feeding trolls? Feed them and they will never go away.

Have a good week everyone.

worlds best nanny said...

Shut up, Nanny Taxi! Or should I say Nanny Nazi! I've seen some of your posts.
I am who I say I am believe it or not. I think I make the mommies uncomfortable because for all they know their nanny could be just like me.
I think I piss off the other nannies, because I can do what they can do, better and for more money.

bwa ha ha ha!

An employer said...

Chick--Will you write my next nanny ad? Hopefully I won't need one for awhile since just started with a new nanny this week and keeping my fingers crossed we chose wisely.

Mom in IL said...

Ah Lindsey if only life were that simple for everyone. I HAVE to work...not for the meager pay but for the health insurance coverage for myself and my child. I have no family in the state who can help out. No amount of budgeting will make my situation better. Things are rough out here in the real world and I am sick to death of SAHM's who act like mom's who work are indulging themselves. Do I think I should hire a nanny for $5 an hour - NO! But maybe instead of blaming the parents who are desperately looking for affordable childcare options because they HAVE to work, maybe instead people like you should be trying to fight for legislation that would provide affordable options for our families. (BTW...daycare in my area is at least $1100 a month...the good daycare where the workers weren't overwhelmed and being rough with the babies was $1400 a month.)

I would have done this job said...

Re #14

Of course nannies can sleep while working overnight shifts. There is no liability if you sleep when told it's okay to do so. The parents would be sleeping if they were with the kids too.

It's also normal to pay a lower flat rate for overnights of anywhere from $50-100 particularly if the kids are sleeping through the night 99% of the time, though that is usually in conjunction with regular pay for a daytime job. Still, assume the kids are sleeping for 10 hours of the 11. The nanny can make an extra $360/week, still be fully rested, and work a regular full time job or go to school. I don't think it's such a bad deal, personally.

cali mom said...

LOL, Nanny Taxi, you sure hit HER nerve. Well done!

a reader said...

I would have done this job,

1. You're not thinking this through entirely. In a live in situation, sure enough it'd be normal and were something to happen it'd be a difficult to use against you in court, but this isn't a live in situation.

In a live in, there is routine. In this situation, when the job ends at 8:30 am, what face time do you have with the children? You're a stranger to them.

If an emergency occurs during the night, or one of them gets hurt. Do you really think they'll turn to a stranger for help? No, they'll get the phone and try to find someone else, or simply break down. And you, the adult, will be held liable.

2. Whether agreeable to you or not, they remain in violation of minimum wage law.

It is not ok to break the law, whatever the excuse.

3. One should consider all factors:
a. No one gets someone like this for older children, these would undoubtedly be younger children.
b. This lady sounds like someone who would claim that sleeping wasn't part of the deal if it served her ends. Where do I get this idea? The question should be, where would one get the opposite idea because it is one heck of a risk to take.
c. I dared to email her to inform her of at least the minimum wage aspect. Apparently how she responded in #16 doesn't require the attacks of #15. That's just how she is, who wants to work for a bitch like that?

No, you're a parent not a nanny trying to minimize this, or a nanny who hasn't thought it through.

ericsmom said...

Where has MOM been? Hope everything is okay if you read this.

yellow ball said...

Mom in IL,

Lindsey did not make it sound simple, nor did she say anything about working mothers indulging themselves. I don't know where you got this awful impression, perhaps you projected another's attack on her, I don't know nor care.

Plenty who can afford it are using the economy as an excuse to pay less, just to pay less. Others who can't afford it do have alternatives available to them, too few ever consider a nanny share. Staying home is a very real idea to a great many.

The point she was trying to make was that no matter the circumstance, $5 an hour is indefensible and her post came after $1 and $3 mentions. I'd further add, that any amount that a nanny can't live on is indefensible.

Any legislation would take months to get passed, and months more to have in place and may not do a darn thing. It is also off topic.

Perhaps people like you should keep you mouth shut and learn to read in context before opening it again.

With respect of course.

Lindsey said...

Mom in IL, if you are in fact working for the insurance, and you are really only getting meager pay, then their are options. One is medicare. Which is completely free, a meager wage in my book is anything under $15/hr. We live off $40k a yr and we qualify, although we don't get it. Here in California there is a program called healthy families. It is subsidized by the govt. I pay $36 a month for my 3 boys, and $5 copay for office visits and $5 prescription. Not sure if you have a program like this, but if you are working for pennies then you do qualify for state medicare. I have never heard of any daycare costing that much. But I am not in IL, her for the pricey ones (Sacramento) its about $150-$200 a week. The cheaper ones are about $100-$125. People seem to be lowering their prices these days.

I am not picking on working moms, I am simply saying that if you can't afford a nanny, then get daycare. A full time nanny gets her pay only from one child (usually) She deserves a decent wage of $10-$15 an hour at least. If you are working for $10-$20 an hour how can you afford that? I was speaking of nannies in general, and how parents should have the decency not to insult a nanny with low pay, and instead seek out daycare.

yellow ball said...

In fact, I'd dare to point out that Lindsey didn't mention mothers at all.

SAHD?

honest nanny said...

Mom in IL,

You are correct that childcare in this state/Chicago is EXPENSIVE! and your rates listed are accurate...

I'm not sure what your situation is, but as Lindsey suggested, what about a nanny share? That way you are getting one on one attention for approx. the same price as daycare.

And I disagree that "people like you" (whomever you were referring to) should be fighting for legislation for cheaper childcare. Parents who are looking for affordable childcare should be fighting for this! People who are offering $1, $3, $5/hour should be fighting for legislation for more affordable childcare. Why would a caregiver who makes a good pay want to fight for such a thing?

yellow ball said...

honest nanny,

I think she was talking about parents fighting for cheaper childcare.

Problem is, it's off topic, would likely take years and would be fought by idiots as a form of welfare.

Lindsey's point I think is that you can't insult a person simply because you can't afford them. The mere attempt is wrong.

And with that I agree.

As for the SAHM, nanny share, daycare, etc. thing, I think she was just trying to illustrate alternatives.

cali mom said...

Oh Lindsey. Please, wake up. Healthy families is ONLY for children. What about mom? And what if mom is uninsurable because she has a "preexisting condition"? ie asthma, precsription meds, etc. I remember being 20 years old and working for $6/hr, paying rent and all utilities and being turned down for Medicare because I was not under 18, over 65, pregnant, blind or disabled. You don't seriously believe that just not being able to afford to pay for an individual health insurance policy qualifies you for Medicare or Medi-Cal? Are you the one who thought that county hospitals were "free"? They're not. They just bill you later.

And, how do you know this mom works during times that daycares are even open and available? Maybe she's a nurse.

yellow ball said...

"Why would a caregiver who makes a good pay want to fight for such a thing?"

Because such a thing may be reasonable subsidies rather than token subsidies that allow a parent to more easily afford daycare or a nanny share, at least giving them a rate they can live on, thus providing a greater demand for the caregivers.

Again however, it is entirely off topic. A whole other tangent dare I say. Mom in IL shouldn't have brought up when responding to Lindsey.

More to the point, it didn't really seem like she knew what Lindsey at all but instead was just going off on her own little thing.

yellow ball said...

cali mom,

That is entirely beside the point. Mom in IL went off on a tangent in response to but nowhere related to Lindsey's original comment.

Also:
* She can't be "uninsurable" if she's insured.
* Lindsey said she used healthy families for her boys, not for herself.

Let's review another point of Mom in IL, "I have no family in the state who can help out."

You know what I call this part?

The need to move provision.

I'm tired of folks who declare an emergency but fail to act like it is.

yellow ball said...

In 3:45 post:

"what Lindsey at all"

should be

"what Lindsey said at all"

sad about them athletes said...

Some people never learn:
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/73-year-old-Ken-Mink-is-just-another-apathetic-c?urn=ncaab,143362

"Where are the parents?"

Well, what do you think ISYN?

Lindsey said...

Yellow Ball, thank you very much.

Cali mom, like Yellow pointed out, she is not uninsurable, and I never said I had healthy families for my self. I am in fact NOT insured. If you have a child who qualifies for medicare/medi-cal the parent is also included as long as the child stays on. I had Medi-cal until my youngest turned one and I added him on the healthy families because his dr. did not take medi-cal. So for my child's benifit I went off the medi-cal so he could have the doctor he needed. Believe me I know the cost of being insured. I hadto have emergency surgery last Oct. to havemy Gallbladdar removed. I spent 12 hours at home vomiting and curled up in a ball because I was in so much pain, but did not want to go to the hospital. I did not have a choice as I was taken to the emergency room and almost immediately taken back for surgery. I am now paying monthly on a $39,000 bill I owe the hospital. So don't be to quick to assume I don't know what I am talking about.

And like Yellow said you all got off the point. But here it is again.

Under no circumstances, should you try to pay a NANNY pennies to care for your child. I don't care what the situation, or how you got into it. You should not expect a nanny to work for you for so little, when you wouldn't work for so little yourself. As I said before GET DAYCARE. My post was never about working moms, it was about not insulting a professional who would care for you child like their own, by expecting, or offering them $5/hr.

Lindsey said...

I meant to type, "Believe me I know the cost of NOT being insured.

cali mom said...

A basic point about the mom who works for the insurance coverage: employers offer GROUP plans, therefore people are not refused THAT coverage due to preexisting conditions. It's INDIVIDUAL plans that are either almost impossible to get or outlandishly expensive in those cases. So again, if the mom's kids do not qualify for Medicare, only for Healthy Families, how is mom supposed to get health insurance?

Don't tell me this is all OT so stop talking about it, threads always go OT on here and I'm responding to what the Mom in Il said as well as what Yellow ball and Lindsey are saying.

Chronically Ill said...

Hey Lindsey - just adding to the others to explain "uninsurable." I have crohns disease which requires expensive medication. As long as I am employed (or my husband) with a group insurer I am a-ok. If I have any gap in coverage my crohns would not be covered if I switched jobs. (Unless the gap was less than the COBRA election period). If I tried to get an individual plan I would be denied as I am uninsurable. If my husband lost his job before I finished school I would work part time at Starbucks or Petco for health insurance. My meds are thousands of dollars a month without it. I would work for free, just to keep that insurance. It is gold - until this country does something about its health care situation.

Deaf Nanny said...

I love WTF! The rediculously low-paying jobs and the wierd ones are the ones I like. It takes all kinds of people to make up this crazy world, that's for sure. CL is proof of that!

cali mom said...

Thank you Chronically Ill. I get really fed up with the "insurance isn't that expensive, just shop around or do without" reasoning encountered so frequently here. It's as tiresome as the old "if you can't afford a nanny then use a daycare or call Grandma". It just doesn't boil down quite so simply.

Lindsey said...

So yes, I will agree with you Cali mom, maybe the insurance bit is a bit more complicated.

I will not however agree with you about the nanny situation. It is just as simple as, "If you can't afford a nanny, then get daycare." It really is, plain and simple. A nanny is not a right or a need. It is a luxury and a want, a privlege. So I am sorry if you are fed up with the tiresome "If you can't get a nanny then get daycare." Because quite frankly thats exactly what it is.

Read this from a nanny who feels the same way.

http://sacramento.craigslist.org/com/1048028764.html

nyc mom said...

Lindsey,

I've posted this exact same thing before on another thread including a definition of luxury:`

1. Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort.
2. Something expensive or hard to obtain

A nanny, for some, is NOT a luxury but a necessity. You may not be able to envision a situation so I'll give you one.

We live in NYC and have 3 dc. Two older, one toddler. I work ER shifts which require long hours, weekends, and overnights. DH often travels for work and often unpredictably. We have no family nearby who can help in any significant way. Even if we moved closer to family, they are still too elderly and too ill to be able to help so that is not a solution. Not to mention the inability to leave nyc right now due to dh's job options especially in this economy. Although my older two are in school, I need someone who can help get them ready sometimes in mornings, stay late sometimes at night (well beyond the hours of any daycare), work occasional evenings and overnights. I need someone who can pick up my older two dc. I need someone who can watch a toddler during the daytime. Daycare for 3 dc would well exceed the cost of a nanny for us, even in our situation in which we have a nanny + additional help - daycare would still cost more. Plus they would certainly require extra costs, even if they were amenable to school dropoff/pickup (which isn't even obviously an option). So then people say, oh just arrange something with another mom - some kind of childcare exchange. I've tried this and it failed miserably. You simply cannot count on another mom who is presumably quite busy herself always being available to help as needed and I can't miss work or not leave the kids alone.

So a nanny is not a luxury - she is quite essential. I cannot conceive of another option that costs less or is even feasible. A nanny is LESS expensive than other childcare options for us. Nannies are not hard to obtain as there are plentiful applicants for the position, including many well-qualified and flexible applicants.

Can a nanny be a luxury for some families? Absolutely. But to assume a nanny is a luxury for everyone is ridiculous. EXACTLY as Cali mom said:

"It's as tiresome as the old 'if you can't afford a nanny then use a daycare or call Grandma'. It just doesn't boil down quite so simply."

Please try to look beyond your own experiences before assuming everyone who uses a nanny is choosing luxury childcare.

Austin Nanny said...

It is unfair to blame bad parenting on the man with Aspbergers. Back in my office days, one of my co-workers had Asbergers. (The owner of the company was friends with his parents, so he made certain acomodation, like converting the copy room into his office because the chatter and phone ringing at the cubicles were too upsetting for him and he couldn't concentrate.

He was a great employee, but his parents could not leave him alone because he was socially inappropriate and would get extremely upset when confronted with any sort of stressors. (He once threw a tantrum so extreme after getting a parking ticket that we had to call his parents and therapist) They also had to pack his lunch because if he had pocket money, he would buy 5 candy bars for lunch, much like a child would.

It's not fair to say someone with APspeberger's should be thrown into the street, but there are different levels of functioning, and honestly I can't imagine many companies making the same concessions we did. The office manager had to make a daily itenerary for him with scheduled time for each task, and it caused extra work for everyone.

honest nanny said...

nyc mom: while i get where you are coming from with the difficulties of scheduling, nannies still deserve to be paid reasonably. which is what all of this discussion really boils down to.

do you agree?

Lindsey said...

NYC, again someone who who this was not directed at has taken it like it was. Your husband and you are both employed. You can AFFORD a nanny. Never will a nanny be essential. You may feel like you NEED her, or that you HAVE to have her. But you don't. But this is not the case as you can obviously afford one.

nyc mom said...

Yes, I completely agree, Honest Nanny. I feel we pay our nanny a competitive wage and treat her well by observing scheduled hours, paying OT, vacation, personal, sick, holidays, etc. Most importantly I truly respect my nanny as a person, employee, and fellow parent and try to treat her the way I would want to be treated.

However, I do not have the same outrage as some toward low paying CL ads because I believe in a simple market economy. If an ad is offering ridiculously low wages, no one will take it, and the propsective employer will learn that she needs to increase wages. Or she will get someone substandard and learn that you need to pay more to get someone good. So when I see the silly ads, I just pass them over as ridiculous. Same as I have done when offered jobs in my field that pay too low to be competitive. I do not take it as a personal insult, just as a job that pays too low.

Lindsey, I don't get how you think I do anything other than NEED a nanny. Seriously, I NEED to work to support my family (as do most nannies presumably). My children NEED childcare. Other forms of childcare can not accomodate our schedules, thus I NEED a nanny. Moving would not solve this problem and neither would one of us being a SAH parent as we could not pay our bills.

mom of 7 said...

I am new to this blog and I am not sure I want to get into an argument with my first post (which is why I've never posted before), but here's my thinking:

If you have children you are accepting a responsibility. If you cannot afford to have that responsibility do not have children. Parents have to make childcare work for them, whether it is daycare, nanny, relatives, etc. However, I agree that a nanny would be a higher end sort of childcare choice. If you don't have the money to pay at least minimum wage in that state or city then you need to find a different solution.

My mom started a foster care home! This is of course unconventional, and wanting to be able to SAH wasn't her only reason, but she made something work for her. Even though we had added children in the household I will never take for granted those years my mother was able to care for us herself.

Lindsey said...

Nicely said Mom of 7. Welcome to ISYN.

amy said...

I have some concerns about a add posted through Craigslist in NYC. It was for a Governess job in HI. I filled out the information for a company called Beacon Hill nannies. Before filling out all the info the women responded and told me I have great background and experience and to fill out the application. SO I did! After filling it out i have gotten no response. It has been close to to a week( the first email took 1 day after I responded to ad)! I have sent 2 emails to the women who orginally sent me an email and I also sent one to the so called president of the agency. I am just wondering if any has any experience in dealing with them? It is not like I am not qualified. I am a certified teacher with experience as a teacher and a live in governess. To me it seems it would be professional to at least respond and say no we do not want to work with you. Are they just info getters or what??? And what is up with these agencies..I have come across so many that are just rude. I just started talking to one agency and about the first thing she asked for was my SSN( and really nothing else). I kindly said to her that I did not feel comfortable at that point to give her that info. She then said well that is ok because you are really not even qualified for a position like this. We have this great cand. that is 19 and has a year of experience(it was to homeschool a special needs child and I am a cert. special education teacher). I guess what I am saying is, does anyone out there know of an agency out there that will be professional and help me get a job(which none have done)??. I have not had any luck just finding something off of craigslist. I am in the midwest but open to any location. Any help would be great.

alc0035@YAHOO.COM

*and in response to the women in DSM..very laughable. $50 a week?? who was watching them her mother? Some people are so clueless. I am in IA, and this is the kind of person I always run into..this is why I would have a hard time finding a job..people thinking that a nanny should be paid in peanuts..It is like they laugh in my face because I say I would like to make 12-14 an hour or $450-500 for a live in position. I even had a women who was a lawyer and her husband a dr. question if that was for the month or bi weekly. Is this really that outragous for me to ask for 500 a week when I made more in the past as a governess or for me to ask for 12-14 an hour(I live in a city that is home to a state college and has the highest cost of living in the state)?

Austin Nanny said...

MOm of 7, I agree. I'm baffled why people have kids when they can't pay their bills.

cali mom said...

Probably because their "faith" trumps all common sense and they don't believe in using birth control, or having abortions if their birth control fails.

And from this conversation, it can be concluded that:

Moms should never be doctors, nurses, EMT's, firefighters, police officers, or ANY profession that requires them to work outside of the standard 9-5 M-F slot.

People should never become parents if their own parents are elderly or infirm. (It's fine if they're just bad, clueless, irresponsible, unwilling caregivers, of course).

It's better to have 10% of people who have chosen Nanny as their profession to be paid $20/hr+, with full taxes and health benefits paid by their employers, and to leave the rest unemployed, rather than have them accept less than they are "worth".

Daycares SHOULD be open 24/7 so that bad, selfish, entitled mothers who insist on making irresponsible career choices for such frivolous reasons as supporting their families can actually support their families AND their caregivers' families.

JustAMommy said...

Um, aren't we losing sight of the priority here?

Isn't it the kids?

yes, that's right, I said... the kids.

Sure, some drugged out crack whore may tell you she'll watch your kid (or your car, or another drugged out whore doing something unmentionable to you) for $2.

But... shouldn't you think twice about letting someone so desperate be in charge of the thing you prize more than your life? The kids who supposedly are so important you must work crazy hours for little pay yourself just to support them?

The real issue, in my opinion, with people who want to pay so little for child care, is that they are leaving their children open to abuse or neglect.

Yes, there are SAHMs who will watch another child for somewhat less than you'd pay in other settings because they only need a little extra to keep themselves home with their kids- but that doesn't seem to be what some of these folks are looking for.

They want the world, and they want it cheap. The plain fact is that if you can't afford to pay the going rate, you are going to have to make compromises. You might have to drive farther to drop your kid off. You might have to share child care with someone else's kid. You also have the option of compromising quality of care and leaving your kid with someone soon to be featured on ISYN- but that doesn't sound too good, does it?

Sure, we'd all love to be able to hire a third parent for our kids for virtually nothing- but I know I'm the only one who's going to take care of my son for LOVE, not money. If I did have to leave him and return to work, I'd make darn sure I hired someone competent to watch him, and choose my compromises carefully.

babysitter said...

Um...why would a crack whore take a job watching a kid that pays $2 and hour, when she can find a john and make a lot more than than that in about ten minutes? (I admit, I have no idea what the going rate for prostitution is, but it's got to be a lot more than these cheap childcare jobs). And really, crack's expensive. If a normal person can't afford to live on that salary, there's no way the crackwhore can afford to buy drugs on it!

I just think all the arguments that dangerous people will take the jobs and hurt the kids is silly. Even dangerous people won't work for that little. Except maybe pedophiles with trust funds. But if the craigslist posters have an ounce of common sense, they'll avoid those types and find soemthing else, pay more, etc.

I just don't see what's worth getting worked up over. The WTF ads are a lot more funny than the How much ones