Wednesday

Overheard at the Drugstore....

Wednesday, January 28, 2009
Perspective and Opinion on ISYN I observed this incident and I am not sure how to proceed. I am a mother with my own nanny in the small town of Rye, NY. Last evening I was at the drugstore when I noticed some employees gathering and whispering. Their intended target was the nanny of one of my children's friends; the mother of whom I know only casually. The employees were recollecting the nanny's previous visits to the store, empty wrappers she left behind, merchandise she had stolen, and they spread out to observe her in the store. They stated, 'this time we're calling the police'. They weren't very quiet about it and I think the nanny was spooked. She bought a magazine and a pack of chewing gum and left, (under the watchful eye of several employees). The made several references to the bag she was carrying as being the 'infamous' bag. I noted the bag was like a large messenger bag in a soft green leather material. The bag was very large and looked to be empty as she left the store. One of the employees said, "oh she's good, that's for sure, but without the kids, I think her and her big bag are too obvious". This nanny is not married. She is a live-in nanny. I have met her and she seems very normal, pleasant, usually on the ball with the children she works with. In my position, how many of you would contact the mother of this nanny? My husband is of the school of the thought that this is clearly a case of MYOB.

139 comments:

SFC said...

I would say something. If this was your nanny, wouldn't you want to know?

Green Tea Mom said...

MYOB.

You have no way of knowing whether it's true. If it IS, it sounds like the employees are on it and the situation will resolve itself. If it's NOT true, then you've created a pretty crummy situation for the nanny and put the employer in the position of having to take action (or not) because of information that got to them third hand.

It's not your business.

the worlds best nanny said...

This is such a bunch of BS! There is no way the store employees let you in on their conversation! So you are LYING about hearing anything! My husband works in loss prevention and laughed his A$$ off at this post. Stop making up crap so you can see stuff you did online and let the people who actually are concerned about reality have the space!
Go pour yourself another glass of wine and pretend your life is fine!

narcotic nanny said...

The worlds best nanny
How impossible is it to overhear something? I do it all the time! Give OP a break. Maybe she's just nosy (kind of sounds like it too, no offense!) -- but I'm curious, have you been around the blog long? You and I were the only ones that admitted taking meds from our boss, lol.

oh well said...

Stay out of it. This is an easy one.

oh well said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
aml said...

Narcotic-
That's Because you two are the only ones low enough to do that on this board. It's quite scummy.

Kaitlyn and Daniel said...

I have to agree with your husband. MYOB. I second everything Green Tea Mom said.

narcotic nanny said...

aml
Do ya think I really give a crap what you have to say about me? When you have someone taking full advantage of you and using you, so then you decide to pick your own "perks" then come back, until then, ptffff! Besides, I had to catch a buzz some way in order to make it through a work day. Mom was always on my ass, and the dad was always trying to get some ass.

the worlds best nanny said...

LOL Narcotic Nanny!

Don't these people realize that their kids are WORK to us, and nothing goes better with work than a nice buzz! No, sorry ladies, your kids are not sweetfaced little angels you think they all are!

aml said...

Narcotic-

I'm usually not this mean but I have to say, you are a gross person.

If you feel used then take responsibility for your life and go out and get another job. Wal*Mart is always hiring.

I could say more tings but you are obviously the type of person that although very dense, hard headed.

DenverNanny said...

Just a thought, but if you need a buzz to make through your workday, maybe you should choose another line of work...

DenverNanny said...

Narcotic Nanny and World's Best:
As a nanny, I'm both embarrassed that you call yourselves childcare providers and outraged that you think it's acceptable to "pick your own perks"...if it wasn't for "nannies" like you, we wouldn't have to fight for respect and decent job benefits.

aml said...

Amen Denvernanny!

worlds best nanny said...

Oh please! I would need a buzz to get through any kind of work. I'm not worried about making things bad for the "good" nannies. Outside I am %100 "good" nanny. I have sparkling letters of recommendation from several prominent families. I speak 3 languages, I took at course at Johnson and Wales and can cook with the best of them! My charges love me because I am always thinking of fun things to do! I've heard my employer describe me as a "lifesaver" "Wonder Woman" and her "right hand!" On the outside I am everything your nanny hunting butt desires, the inside is another story. Oh and BTW I make $850 a week, cash. I have use of the family minivan, paid wireless, a gas card and not 1 but 2 charge cards! So don't you worry
DenverNanny I am not making things hard for anyone!

aml said...

Being a good scammer/nanny does not excuse you for being pathetic.

narcotic nanny said...

Denver nanny and others:
Chill out already. I've never been caught, and everyone thinks I'm just the cats meow! So your thoughtful comment (ha!) about us making it hard for others is pure drivel. If you are having a difficult time, that is YOUR problem and fault. Just as it was mine for putting up with a crappy employer at one time.

Phoenix said...

to the worlds best nanny...

the OP could have heard this conversation. She didn't say she was apart of it. I have been in many stores where employees discuss business that should be behind closed doors. One example: I over heard a manager and supervios discuss who they were going to fire at the end of the day.
Another example: Employees discussing the fact that there was a customer that was dressed like a giant man baby --- no joke saw him with my own eyes, binki and diaper. I now wish I could erase the image.
Point being not all employees of retail stores are so discreet, they will have conversation among eachother. If this was happening while OP was at the store, along with the shoplifting nanny they would converse outside the manger office to try and catch her in the act.

Don't call OP a liar you werent there!

DenverNanny said...

I think you missed my whole point: the fact that you are taking advantage of the family for which you work. There are dozens of REAL nannies who are good both inside and out who would appreciate you work family and benefits so much more than you do.
Also, you may seem a "life-saver" until you get arrested for child endangerment, reckless driving, possession of a controlled substance, or any other of the various laws you choose to break on a regular basis...
btw, didn't you justify your theft by saying you were taken advantage of and had to pick your own perks? Sounds like you have a very reasonable benefits package.
I stand by my previous statement: if you need a buzz--get a different job! Preferrably one where you won't be near anyone's children

DenverNanny said...

Really? You never got caught so that makes it okay? And you're caring for children, instilling values, etc? Wonderful...

narcotic nanny said...

Denver nanny, don't hate because I've got it better than you! As for the kids, sure, maybe I can teach them some street smarts while I'm around, who knows!

DenverNanny said...

Street smarts...Like which pills to steal? And I'm pretty sure you know nothing about my position...

what a Joke said...

To the drug stealing nannies. I think you're both a couple of liars trying to get a flame out of people. If not I hope that someday you don't hurt the children you care for. What a couple of idiots. Just goes to show trash is everywhere.
To the OP I would just MYOB. Who knows what was going on. What this girl does is not your concern. If she gets arrested, she'll be out of a job and then that will be the end of that.
Maybe she and the med stealing dynamic duo should get together and form their own suburban "crew".

Phoenix said...

I will say this narcotic nanny... I have taken meds from many people, my family, my bosses, my friends. I had a huge addiction problem. Sounds like you need help. I was not able to function without a vicodin, a percocet, or an oxycontin.... I was in a fog for three years! If you are stealing meds to take them, you are a drug addict. I know what being an addict is, I am still a cigarette smoker and a heavy coffee drinker. You sound like you need serious help and should not be around children and stealing is wrong (especially if you think you are owed it) So the parents of you charges owed you, so you got high? WTF is the matter with you... I finally admitted the problem now it's your turn to see that your way of thinking is wrong and damaging. And if you think I was just a prescription drug user then you would be wrong too... I am a recovering adict and I know what it means to think you are owed something in life--- it's the cycle.

You need help and if you don't want it then I suggest you get away from children so you don't poison them too!

What a Joke said...

Oh and as for the person who said she couldn't possibly have overheard this at a store. Wake the hell up! I don't think it's possible to go into any store and not hear the employees discussing inappropriate things in front of customers. Do you live in a bubble?

Phoenix said...

I was reading through the thread again and I got so angry at these two retards.

It's not funny to joke about stealing from people and stealing their medication....!!!???

I am just outraged! What the hell is wrong with you two? don't you realize that it's just plain ass wrong? But what ever... joke all you want. I know that road girls and you will have a rude awakening one day... but you don't seem that strong so as God wills it, you will pull yourself out of it.

Just hopefully the kids wont' be with you.

narcotic nanny said...

Phoenix
Thanks for the reality check, phoenix. Yeah, I feel bad a little bit. But only because of the kids, but I really did hate the parents. I know those kids didn't get 100% from me when I was high, so that part I do regret.

Phoenix said...

If you regret it, then don't do it again.
When you are in your off time do whatever you want. I won't ever touch them again because of my past behaviors. Your off time is for you and if you need something to make you relax a cocktail isn't illegal and neither is getting Xanax from your doctor.
Thanks for the sincerity, I am sorry i yelled but being a recovering adict I can't find the humor or the proper exscuse to justify the behavior.

narcotic nanny said...

Phoenix
When you have posters calling you pathetic and whatever, yeah, I'm going to make a joke out of it. But I appreciate your story. Thanks.

lauren said...

To the world's best nanny,
I live in Rye and I'm familiar with the handful of drugstores in the area. The drugstores are operated by a combination of gothic teenagers, jilted alcoholics and social deviants. I've overheard two clerks and a stocker laughing and having a very R rated conversation over a vibrating egg toy. My six year old daughter was right next to me.

Phoenix said...

how old are you narcotic nanny... you type like you're around my age

Kiki said...

STOP DERAILING THIS THREAD.

Narcotic Nanny, I wouldn't be caught dead in a mini van. I don't need a buzz to get through my day, but I enjoy my Volvo XC90

narcotic nanny said...

24. why, how old are you?

To Kiki- dumbass, I don't drive the minivan! Worlds best nanny does! idiot!

Park Slope Nanny said...

If the nanny were my friend I would be caught in a bind as to how to approach her, but I would do so. If I were a parent and this nanny were a friend of my friends nanny or were my friends nanny herself, I would definitely tell my friend. She deserves to be told what kind of nanny she has working for her especially since other people have observed her doing things that are obviously unworthy... There are children here to be considered, and kids do learn from the habits of adults..

This being said this is a difficult topic to broach to someone, but the problem here is not whether it should be, but instead how it should be done.

Good luck OP. My advice is go with your conscience, that inner voice that tells us to do the right thing...

Phoenix said...

23...

narcotic nanny said...

Damn, you're good! lol. We're really close in age. So, what got you off drugs?

Phoenix said...

It was a really expensive habit, my first addiction was to E and then it changed into the prescription meds.
When I started stealing from my sister that was the breaking point.
i remember she came home from the hospital. She asked me to fill her pain killers for her... I did and never went back. It was then I realized I had a huge problem. i hid my addiction from my entire family, my husband was the only one who knew I was taking them but he didn't think it was that extreme. He was my support through the whole thing. I was addicted to something since I was 12. Now it's just coffee and cigs.

narcotic nanny said...

Phoenix
I never did anything like E, too scared. I smoked a little, but I did like taking pills the most. I broke my arm a few years ago and they gave me vicodin. I liked the way they numbed me out. I don't take pills all the time, but I don't think I would turn one down if offered, though. I don't know if what I have would be considered an addiction, or maybe I'm just kidding myself?

Best Seller said...

Yep. Gotta go with Green Tea Mom on this one. Good post!

Phoenix said...

I think the possibility of addiction exists with everything. Everyone is addicted to something in some form or another. It is a human quality. It is just being addicted to the wrong thing is what is bad. Like my hubby is addicted to working out. He compulsivly works out and if he doesn't he gets depressed, angry and lethargic. Much like the symptoms of drug addicts.

It doesn't sound like you are addicted to them. When I was taking vicodins I HAD to have them. I woke up with one and went to sleep with one and took them throughout the day. If you are not allowing your mind to say that you have an addiction then chances are you are under control. However, the way you get lost is you have the illusion of control when in fact it doesn't really exist and the addiction has become you.
I am addicted to lots of things. I have that kind of personality so I altered my addiction to something that is legal (it will still kill me eventually) none the less.
I would assume never assume you're safe as long as you are aware you can stop anything before it snow balls out of control.

And E man that was the hardest thing in the world to get over. I still struggle with that one, everyday I struggle with it. But my hubby keeps my spirits up. As long as I tell him I am getting the craving he talks me through it and it eventually passes.

narcotic nanny said...

I have to admit I don't know much about E. The one time I was tempted to take it (my friend had swallowed one about 10-15 min beforehand) she started throwing up all over the place, I thought she was going to die! Then someone told me that a lot of people throw up, especially when it is really good stuff. My friend was fine and went on to have a killer time. I chickened out, and I'm glad I did! I didn't know you could be addicted to E.

Thanks for everything, phoenix, you've been a real inspiration to me tonite!

Phoenix said...

No prob. I am usually around here.

Austin Nanny said...

OP, this is a tough call. While the nanny truly may be a shoplifter, it is possible that the employees are mistaken.

In high school, my best friend and I discovered that a department store had been tailing us for 3 months because they they thought we were master thieves. We had never stolen a thing. My friend was a bit spoiled and got a weekly clothing allowance, so we were at the mall quite a bit, but I don't think we ever did anything suspicious.

We found out after running into a classmate in the store. Her brother was head of loss prevention and told her he didnt' want her to hang around with criminals.

WTF? said...

I'd tell the mom in a heartbeat.

CT Mom said...

I would tell the mom what you overheard. Make it clear you did not witness the nanny stealing anything. I would DEFINITELY want to know! She can check it out for herself. She need not (probably should not) bring a picture of the nanny to the store, but could bring one of her kids to see if they are recognized. If the nanny is caught stealing while with the kids, the kids could be with the police or DCF until things are straightened out and she is contacted. Obviously, witnessing this type of incident would be very scary for the kids and THEY come first.

the worlds best nanny said...

Kiki-

I watch 5 kids under 10 so a mini van is best. I wish they would let me use their Saabs but it wouldn't be practical.

Narcotic-
I just found these boards the other day after the man in Belgium attacked a daycare. Yes, I admitted to the swiping of the vicodin, but that doesn't make us bad people. I am not an addict, I took those vicodin like 2 years ago and haven't had any since.

Phoenix-
God Bless You! I have a friend who is addict and it is so hard to watch her and her struggle.

narcotic nanny said...

Worlds best nanny - what a devastation that was, the Daycare murders. It's been cool having you as my "compadre" tonite! Hope you stick around for awhile.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
get a moniker said...

Anonymous said...
I've been to so many stores and heard so much out of unprofessional employees that I believe the OP. But just because she heard it doesn't make it true..I say if its really true let the police work it out but it prob isn't so MYOB

10:55 PM

honest nanny said...

OP,

Tough call but I'd mention it to your friend, just as you have us here. Make sure you emphasize to her, as CT MOM suggested, that you DID NOT witness anything being stolen, but that they should keep an eye out. I would recommend that the parents investigate the situation to assess if it is dangerous to their children or a liability to their household.

bunch of B.S. said...

to the FAKE druggies:

you guys are full of shit! i agree with what a Joke that you are all just trying to get us riled up. psh. i guess that's the nice thing about blogging. anonymity. you can be an idiot online and a normal person on the street.

honest nanny said...

oh i forgot to mention. i've worked retail and believe me when i say, we talked when we should have all the time! we would forget someone was in the store or just not give a damn. was it right? no, but it happens.

and i worked in the 2nd largest *** (clothing retail) store in the U.S. so it can happen anywhere.

PinkNanny said...

OP,

looks like somehow the topic turned to drugs. but regarding you question, i don't see why you would say anything.

think about it - the children aren't endangered and it's all speculation.

vector said...

Um, what about the shoplifting nanny.

And anyone who gets addicted to E is just pathetic. That's creepy.

cali mom said...

To the 2 drug addicted lazy thieving lying babysitters: get off your worthless slug butts and fill out an application at Burger King if you can't handle the real world.

To OP: you have nothing o go on here but hearsay. Stay out of it.

Kay said...

Damn cali mom, your self-righteousness is peeking through. You have no compassion for homeless people or drug addicts. You are just perfect, aren't you?

cali mom said...

Kay, if YOU think it's fine and dandy for caregivers of kids to steal from their employers and get high on the job, AND brag about it, then YOU have some serious problems.

And 99.99% of "homelessness" is due to stupid people not taking responsibility for themselves and demanding that someone else wipe their butt for them because they can't be bothered to do it themselves. The remainder is due to mental and/or substance abuse problems, which OP of the illegal squatters thread seems convinced her friends do not have.

NannyInCharge said...

Pretty much just going to agree with Cali Mom on this one. On the druggies/nannies, the MYOB, and the ever growing, annoying, creepy, tapping on my windows at a stop sign homeless people.

GET AWAY FROM MY CAR AND GO GET A JOB!!!

Jacqui said...

Look how riled up worldsbest and narcotic got you guys.
Relax...You really think they're serious?

...It's actually pretty funny.

Phoenix said...

To all the people that think you are superior is some shape or form and that you are not addicted to something... as the nanny in the story obviously has a problem with shop lifting -- another addiction btw. --- you need to get a reality check.
Like I said being addicted to anything was hard to admit and one can be addicted to E... not physically but I had a psychological addiction to it. It was very hard to stop, and for someone to come forward who has been through recovery and made it to the other side, I don't like to hear that it is creepy or any other nonesense. If you knew the sturggle i don't think you would say mean things about those people.

I made bad choices as a child. i accepted my responsibility and accepted my mistakes... which in turn makes me a more aware adult. So please before you say anything about what you don't know... then be kind and try to have some empathy. Don't you see that I shed some light and revelation on all your lives? But there is no use in arguing. Those are my final comments on the topic.

EFG said...

calimom,I would like to take a moment to tell you how offensive you are.ALL the TIME!!
Whats with implying that the druggies should go work at BK?
There is abosulutely nothing demeaning about Taking a job at BK.It's hard work,on your feet,dealing with the public,it's hot and tiresome but it helps pay the bills. Your remark was low and uncalled for. Want a dose of reality? Get your happy little spoiled ass up at 5 am to flip burgers for 6-8 hrs before picking your kids up from school and heading off to your night time job once your hubby gets home. That is reality !
Being paycheck to paycheck..that is reality for may!
Losing your job or home..that is reality for many!
The recession..a reality for Many!!
"99.99% of homlessness due to stupid people not taking responsibility for themselves"that is NOT relity...That is Calimoms Ignorance showing through!

As for your cold hearted,true colors showing..AGAIN,homeless remark. You are wrong and you are ignorant. I feel for you lady. You have no heart. I pray to God that your child has another influence in his life like a daddy or grandma who can teach him some compassion.I don't care what all the regulars say. While they find you interesting and loyal beacuse you keep coming back..I find you truly THE MOST PATHETIC poster on this board.
You are just a cold hearted,pompous,think you are superior to everyone spoiled brat with no concept of any kind of reality but your own.

You don't work,you are taken care of by someone else and you are just a damn,spoiled snot!
Get your damn ass out to a shelter and take in a big gulp of reality sister.You will find the following:

wives who lost their husbands to war the past few years.

Elderly who lost their jobs this past year just months before retiring who will now get no pension and who now have no health insurance.

Parents who lost their job as well as health ins and now are in debt due to huge medical bills for their sick children. Due to that debt,they have lost their homes and have no where else to turn!!

(Yes, there are druggies and lazy people who want someone else to foot the bill but your info is WRONG and your 99.99% is BS!! UNless you want to show some factual Documents regarding that I invite you to close it!!)

Single parents & Families who have been evicted from rentals because owners forclosed and while they could make their monthly rental payment,trying to come up with a 1st.last and cleaning deposit is impossible!

Thats how many have become homeless in the last two years!

!! Grow up and come out from behind your rose colored glasses lady!! There is a real world out there and trust me based on some of your comments regarding homeless people or addicts,you are so far removed from the real world that it is astounding!

You don't know what the hell you are talking about!!

K said...

Phoenix,
I hate to burst your bubble,but yes,even knowing how hard overcoming an addiction can be,certain posters would still"say mean things about those people".

"they are simply convinced of ones own righteousness"

I am sorry you went through what you did but am happy you have found your way out!You sound like a strong,young woman.

K said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
K said...

MPP & Jane,sorry for the double post! Pls remove for me!

cali mom said...

LOL EFG, pull that stick out of your nether regions. (Unless that's the only thing that makes you happy, that is).

There is nothing wrong with a job at BK. But if the druggie-thief nannies have to resort to popping stolen pills because they can't handle working with kids, they'd be better off working there.

BTW, I might be putting in an app there if nothing else turns up (despite how much YOU obviously hate working there) because I've been a SAHM mom for a few years now and my hubby got laid off as of yesterday. I mention this not because I give a poop what you or anyone thinks about that fact, but just to make sure everyone gets to laugh as hard as I am at what a complete ass you are managing to make of yourself every time your fingers hit the keyboard.

Oh, and no pickles on that. Thanks hon.

BB said...

Hey cali mom, looks like the shoe's on the other foot now then. I sure hope you don't end up homeless! You've got plenty of time to do something about that, remember?

cali mom said...

Yep, I sure do. We've got a long way to go and many resources to help us avoid that. Funny how that works.

Also funny how you and "EFG" seem to ASSume that I have always been some silver spoon trust-fund baby who never had to think for a second about how to pay my bills. As mom has pointed out, if you don't know how to manage your money, you never end up with any to manage. Connect the dots.

EFG said...

calimom,it's not so much an ass-umption as how you come across in every thread with a snotty attitude towards everyone down on there luck or those who unlike you,have problems that they cannot seem to get a grasp on.

I used to be a lot like you,looking my nose down at people who were addicts or just simply not able to take care of their families for one reason or another. I too was a real know it all.
But a harsh dose of reality woke me up.
And I soon had the ability to see things outside of my own,little safe world. I hope you do to someday.
I am sorry about your husband getting laid-ff. I truly wish that on no-one.

aa said...

you can't even be humble without sounding self-important..
"yep,we've got a long way to go and many resourses to help us avoid that"

You are fortunate. Not everyone has those things though.Can you for one second imagine if you did not have those things and your husband got laid off? What would you do then?

justsaying said...

*SIGH* EFG when are you going to stop tearing into Calimom? You seem to have appeared out of no where but you,and I,both,know,whats,up.

Calimom, sorry to hear about your husband..

LOL said...

Justsaying
I,caught,your,drift,too.

cali mom said...

Well, thanks for the positive thoughts. We are both now in full-fledged job hunt mode, and figuring out where we can cut back. Catastrophic health plan w/huge deductible and high copay, beans and potatoes. Sigh.

EFG said...

justsaying,you are a joke and if you don't like my posts may I respectfully suggest you MYODB!

CM gives as good as she gets,if not more so . She tears into people EVERYDAY that she posts!!And for you to defend her cold hearted remark about homelessness(which is exactly what you are doing) shows that you too lack any care or concern..or knowledge..of the real world!

Now that she,unfortunately,is down on her luck, she "sighs at beans & potatoes.".well guess what,I am sure it is NOT because she and her husband are "stupid" that they are in this position..it is called a recession and it has and IS affecting everyone,so yes,her pompous remarks piss me off.

Its cold and mean not to mention untruthful to imply 99%percent of homless people are there because they are stupid & lazy!What a horrible thing to say!!

AS I said early which you conveniently forgot to acknowledge,is "I too am sorry this happened to her husband as I do not wish this on anyone"

Few places to cut back..
Cable&Internet(use the public Library computer or a friends for job hunuting)should be the first to go..they are luxuries!

To anyone feeling the recession..I hear ya and hope you stay afloat!especially those that have lost or are just a pacheck away from losing thier homes.

BTW,LOL..everyone got her same old lame Drift..feel special do ya?
Just foolishness!!!

cali mom said...

Yes,exactly. I, was't goingto,say, it but,BINGO.

We haven't had cable in 5 years. And our unlimited internet is on our phone line. Any other brilliant ideas Sherlock?

Sherlock said...

Yes.
Get off the internet and get a job.

justsaying said...

LMAO! Calm down EFG.

You know what else is a "joke" EFG? Nannies who neglect their charges why they lurk all day on I saw your nanny.

cali mom said...

EFG, lmao. Enter the 21st century sweetie. Job hunting IS done online these days. Did you think people still go and stand in a long line at the "unemployment office"?

EFG said...

I personally thought "sherlocks" answer was quite funny and I am sad to say,I cannot take credit for that one! But he/she is right on!!!!You are not going to find a job blogging on ISYN!
Pretty sure I suggested job hunting on the computer at the public library but once again in your hurry to so cleverly insult me you missed that part!! Go back and read it again sweetie!

AND.....justsaying,I am a night nanny..on call for the resorts in my area. I choose when I work! I am blessed to have a job and to have a flexible schedule. And often,while the baby sleeps in the hotel room,I can sit right next to him/her and get attacked by bitter,know it alls like you & calimom!!
But hey,since you know it all,why not post my hours worked? Go ahead!
Oh,wait you can't because YOU DON"T KNOW THEM!!
I noticed you both changed the subject though,,CM..where is that factual document showing us that 99.99 percent of homelessness is due to "stupid,lazy people" and has nothing to do with the recession!!??
Maybe you could get a job writing fiction somewhere?

And Sherlock..again,Kudos...that really was funny as hell!!

eieio said...

EFG or K or LMNO or whatever. Why is what sherlock said so funny? They made a statement and I didn't find any humor to it whatsoever. You're just really happy you had one poster say something against cali mom and your going into a silly stupor over it.

Calm down already.

cali mom said...

Well EFG, I tell you what. You show me your documentation about "abortions" of 8 and 9 month old babies and I'll continue discussing homelessness with you.

EFG said...

calimom, WTF are you talking about?

My statement on abortion was simply that "supporting it at 3 months or 8 months is sickening"
It's an opinion..mine!
I never got into any details on abortions being performed at 8 or 9 months!????????
D&X abortions are performed on viable babies,that is a fact,not an opinion.
If you want documentation,I suggest you go back and argue with one of the many others you did there!

So go back,re-read the blog,after you get you head out of ass,and if you still want to be a bitch and argue,fine but atleast get iyour shit right!
Fantastic for someone throwing around so many insults and referring to brain-cells and rocket scientist! Not coming across too bright yourself there toots!
and once again you changed the subject.
Got anything on the 99.99 homelessness remark?? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Why not just admit that statement was conjured up out of pure anger and fantasy??

the whole damn alphabet said...

oh yes eieiooooo..sherlock was brilliantly funny!!!!!And quick!
you must be pretty dried up if you didn't laugh at that one!
I myself peed!!

Incognito said...

EFG-I'm with you. Calimom has been an obnoxious, derisive snob from the start. I haven't read her posts in ages because I learned early on she negates anything of value she might offer with her bile. She's a very bitter woman-best to completely ignore those types

Team Cali said...

I have been a reader for some time here and have noticed that Cali mom does well handling her own. There's always going to be someone trying to challenge her because she's not afraid to say what she thinks. I've seen others stoop much lower in their language and misbehavior than Cali mom, so as far as I'm concerned, anything of value that they would have to offer should also be considered bile.

Incognito said...

Team Cali-I agree 100%. But most of those others no longer post-or post infrequently-a boon for the blog, I think. I am also a longtime regular using a different moniker-as I suspect you are.

This is a subject that gets revisited every so often. I just wanted to make it known that not all of us here think Cali-mom's nasty tone is appreciated by all.

One of the things I love about this blog is Jane and MPP allow most people to express their opinions, and Cali-mom has the same rights as everyone else here-she is free to express her opinions-just as I am free to ignore them.

cali mom said...

Just pointing out that I was not arguing with anyone on this thread, simply echoing the general opinion stated by many before me that the nannies who were stealing drugs from their employers and getting high on the jobs should be in a different line of work, until "Kay" took issue with MY expression of that opinion (no one else's) and then "EFG" flew right up my ass after "Kay" disappeared and has been jumping up and down on her keyboard pounding out angry nonsense at me ever since. Call it bile if you want. I call it response.

the whole damn alphabet said...

well cali from we have have heard,on more than one occasion, it's a nice ass maybe EFG just wanted to get a closer look!

mom said...

Oh my gosh ladies! I have thus far managed to keep from reading this whole thread...but I see you've been busy!

Calimom, I am so sorry to hear about your husband's job. I know it will be hard in the short run, but I have every confidence that oyu and oyur husband will make it through this with oyur heads held high, and come out nicely on the other end when the economy picks up again. You know who USUALLY turns out OK when these things happen? Those people who are willing to roll their sleeves up and take any job they can to keep their families afloat,as opposed to those who immediately go jump in line somewhere and expect somebody else to shoulder the responsibilities for the families they havemade. The people who are not afraid of a hard day's work and who realize that in times like this ANY job is a GOOD job. An executive form our church was summarily fired (cutbacks) from a long term (decades), high salaried, prestigious position several years back. You know what he did to support his family? Took the first job he could possibly get...cleaning toilets at a department store. The family cut back on everything, made it through, and today that man is back at a fantastic job making a mint and living in a gorgeous home. And he is grateful daily. My own parents accidentally had me when they were teenagers. They immediately both got jobs (while my father also went to college and law school...which he refused to let his parents continue to pay the tuition for once he was married with a child.) They did what they had to do to meet their own responsibilities and he eventually became an incredibly successful attorney. It ouwl dhave never occurred to either of them to get in a line and let anybody take responsibility for their actions or decisions. Those are the people who make it. And the same people who are never snooty to those who have less, or never ungrateful for what they do have, instead of looking at what they still want.

Yeah, I think Cali will be fine. She doesn't strike me as a hypocrite, so I assume she has that same work ethic I am speaking about here.

EFG said...

calimom,just a couple of things..I highly doubt Kay "dissapeared". It was 2 am and she probably had the goodsense not to argue with you at that point!. (wish I did)
Second,I did not fly right up your ass after Kay dissapeared. I showed up over 12 hrs later and happened to agree with her whole heartedly!So it seems do several posters!
Stop back peddling... your remark translated"if you can't handle the real world then go work at BK" was offensive to anyone holding down a job there or at any fast food business..as was your IGNORANT homlessness remark which BTW you have avoided now since I asked you for details or documents.
Why not just admit it was stupid,cold,mean thing to say based on absolutely nothing factual at all!??

although you are a blazing bitch,I still wish both you and your husband luck finding a job and fast!!

Hope these help:
Call
1.) Barry Duffy 510-563-5292
US Census Bureau
***Feb.5TH****9-NOON & 1-3PM
Oakland Career Center East
675 Hegenberger RD. 3rd floor
Oakland they are testing for new employees throughout the state of Ca.

2.) Bill Mueller 817-283-9842
He is with Career Fairs
and can answer any questions you have about the following career fairs:
San Jose*** Feb.6th
11am-3pm
Holiday Inn SJ
1740 North First St
SJ Ca
SJ 408-793-3300

3)SF Career Fair
***Feb.10TH** 11AM-3PM
Holliday Inn
1500 Van Ness Ave
SF CA 94109

4.) Sacramento Career Fair
***March 10TH****11AM-3PM
University Of Phoenix Sacramento
2860 Gateway Oaks Dr.
Sac.Ca 95833

WTF? said...

I don't always agree with CaliMom, but some of you dumbasses will jump on her for any old thing.

cali mom said...

Thanks. I may check out some of the local ones. I'd always thought career fairs were pretty much tailored to people who have never actually had a career and need help figuring out what sort of career they'd like to pursue? We'll give it a short while and see what we have to resort to.

cali mom said...

Oh, and of course because he was always employed on the books and has NEVER collected unemployment, we have applied for that. I have no idea how much we will be eligible for.

EFG said...

WTF,
Calling good hard working people who have lost their jobs,homes and everything else due to a recession affecting the whole nation,a bunch of
"stupid people not taking responsibility for themselves and demanding that someone else wipe their butts because they can't be bothered to do it themselves"
is hardly JUST "any old thing".
In fact it was a nasty,cold hearted statement very rebuttle worthy!!
This country is in dire straights right now. Good people who have worked all their lives and supported themselves and their families are having to turn to food stamps and government aid and Unemployment just to survive. In fact CM herself has said she and her husband will be applying for Unemployment.. Do I think they are stupid people for needing assistance? Hell no,I think she is a lot of things but stupid for needing help because her husband was affected by this recession is not one of them!Homes are being forclosed on at an alarming rate and the homeless percentage is soaring! I don't wish that on anyone,even people I don't like. Loosing a home is a terrible thing and being homeless even more terrible!
Some states are not even able to pay their own bills and sending out IOU's in place of state tax refunds!! Good hard working people are finding themselves with no where to turn(because many of their friends and families,who would normally help,are finding themselves in the same boat),not just lazy,stupid people as calimom implied. Shelters and foodbanks are closing. So,yes I thought her statement was rude and cold and I voiced that. If you don't like it I respectfully invite you to Skip my posts next time.
CM brings it on herself with her attitude and often derogatory remarks towards others. That is her style,she chooses that but along with that will often come posters who don't agree and will speak up and I am one,however,I still wish her and her husband the best of luck finding employment as soon as possible so they do not end up blowing through their resourses that they have no doubt worked hard for!
For that matter I send good wishes to all of those out there looking for a job,as they are hard to come by right now!

WTF? said...

Oh, brother. I respectfully invite you to kiss my ass. I'll comment on whichever posts I choose. I've noticed a trend. You'd bitch at CaliMom if she said the sky was blue. If you dislike her so, why don't you take your own advice and find something else to comment on. You're not fooling anyone.

Thanks for your little lecture on the economy. My husband was laid off six months ago and we're currently living off his unemployment and receiving food stamps. We're not even close to being homeless because we spent over 20 years "saving for a rainy day" as they say. We never bought a McMansion or tried to keep up with the Joneses. We lived within our means and only bought what we could afford. We have no credit card debt and one of our vehicles is 13 years old. Hell, yes. I want some credit for that! It's not my fault people lived outside their means and no, I don't feel sorry for them when their homes are forclosed upon. I save my compassion for the needy. The plain old entitled don't get it.

Personally, I believe that the causes of most homelessness are addiction and mental illness. That doesn't keep me from observing that you follow CaliMom around like a dog in heat trying to hump her leg every chance you get. Your vendetta is showing.

EFG said...

WTF,I really don't care about your financial situation and as I can recall..no-one else asked either!??? Go ahead and pat yourself on the back all you want..with an attitude like yours,I am sure no-one else will or does.
You lack compassion sister. Nice that you have had 20 years to save but no all of us are as old as hell like you and have not had nearly as many years of saving as you have. Not everyone lives outside of their means and not everyone tries to keep up with the Jones's. You are one mis-informed,ignorant female if you believe that garbage you are spewing applies to all the homeless. You need to get the facts!And your welcome for the lesson..sounds as if you could use a few more,my dear!!What you believe and what is fact are two VERY different things!!!As for your tale of woe Don't really believe it.I think you just wanted to have a legit reason to get in on the conversation and bitch at me!
Maybe instead of collecting foodstamps you could write fiction for a living,cuase sister,you are good at it!
Want to continue to read my posts..go ahead..LMAO..I hope they piss you off something fierce..you deserve it for being SO smug!

OH & And as for your saggy old,20 years of saving,ass.. um..no thanks..the thought makes my tummy curl!! EEEWWW!!

"personally I think the causes of homelessness are..blah blah blah..let me make some shit up cause I am so much better than everyone else on my block who drives a car younger than 10 yrs old,well damn it,they deserve to lose their homes..they just do"_-WTF

You think MY VEDETTA is showing??"
(whatever the hell that means?!)

I know your ignorance is showing.

GET THE FACTS LADY..then share them with your friend calimom! PLEASE!!!

EFG said...

Brecht has a good article out. All facts! No "I personally believe" crap!

justsaying said...

EFG-

I thought you would be done by now BUTT it LOOKS like you're still at it BIG time. Let it die, everyone else has. Sheesh!

here is another article on homelessness said...

Hope this comes through.

EFG said...

Ya know,Just saying the.. same old lame shit all the damn time..if you have something to say..say it but your lame old"this is BUTT LOOKS BIG" in disguise is as old as WTF's saggy ass .We all know you thingk every blogger that even peeps at cali is Butt looks Big...cause you have said it no less than a dozen times..do me a favor,take your delirious ass to bed already!
You don't know shit..trust me on this one..hate to tell you not every one is a fan of cali's..and not every one is a fan of yours either sleepy time bear!!!night-night now!
OH and read the articles..it will do you some good!

true american said...

Speaking of food stamps, I have a proposal I would like to see acted upon. This is based on spending 2 years in retail watching people by frozen gourmet pizzas and dr. pepper with their foodstamps and haircolor and valentine cards with their EBF cash cards. I propose that when a person is using EBF cash or food stamps, every purchase they make should be stamped with permanent ink. It should read something by "Purchased off the back of hard working American people". When someone is making a purchase with foostamps or using EBF cash, I think bells and whistles should sound and a large, neone arrow should flash and direct down at the customer. I think all food purchases must contain 20 percent fruit and vegetables and 20 percent of the products purchased must have accompanying coupons. Because we all know how easy it is to recklessly spend free money. Also, all food stamp purchases and purchases made with EBF cash should be bagged in fluorescent orange paper bags or plastic sacks that declare "FOOD STAMP PURCHASE".

justsaying said...

I love how worked up you get plus sized penny!

EFG said...

hey just saying,if I throw a stick,will you leave??

WTF? said...

WTBloodyFk?!?!?

Was I supposed to be able to follow that? Good grief. The unibomber's manifesto was more coherant and less wordy. ;)

EFG said...

true american while i think some of your ideas are just out of plain anger that so many abuse the system, I do have to agree with you on a few others. Fruit and veggies should be required. I am not sure of the limitations but Ihad no idea one could buy a greeting card with food stamps or EBT Cash? I have always felt that there should be a government run store available and that the foodstamps must be used there and there only and that based on who is in the familt..food should be doled out in proper food groups!!

EFG said...

WTF,save you breath honey,no doubt with a mug like yours you will need it to blow up your date later!!
Could ya follow that or was it TOO wordy too??

WTF? said...

Ta ta. Enjoy arguing with your multiple personalities. I'm sure I'll encounter you on another thread where you're sure to be making an ass of yourself, as usual.

cali mom said...

WTF, you've really hit the nai8l ion the head.

And in case anyone missed the iron,I'll repost:

"EFG" said:

"WTF,I really don't care about your financial situation and as I can recall..no-one else asked either!???"

Then, after spewing incoherently for a couple more sentences, she actually said:

"You lack compassion sister. "

So, as I recall last time, it was "K" for "Kettle".

Her psychosis is becoming mmore apparent as she continues waving her cyber-hatchet, so I'll follow your example and cross the street, so to speak. Just as I do whenever I encounter one of those multitudes of stinky, crazy, druggy, alcoholic, raving and screaming to themselves homeless people who panhandle for spare change on every block in my city and leave piles of excrement for everone else to step over.

cali mom said...

What is EBF?

cali mom said...

And most of these foreclosure sob stories are just absolute bullshit tales of numbnuts people who either used their houses as ATM's or bought into mortgages that they didn't even begin to understand, and were horrified when their negative amortization loan that was already costing them 60% of their monthly income adjusted after 2 years just like it said it would on the paperwork. It's as dumb as people who make $7 hr accidentally getting pregnant 4 or 5 or 6 times and people who put a freaking candy bar and pack of cigarettes on a credit card. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

EFG said...

find that job yet cali?

cali mom said...

Yeah. I'm the new CEO of Disneyland.

You missed some dribbles on the seat there, better step on it toots or you're fired.

EFG said...

Thought not!! But you sure have so much to say about everyone else on aid!
Sure miss lindalou..justsaying -WTF to everybody all the time!!
Oh see that works both ways!!
Talk about multiple personalities!! Gimme abreak while you are at it!!

cali mom said...

Oh, I just figured it out. No wonder Every F*cking Goober is so defensive about all this. She WAS scrubbing toilets for $7/hr and she accidentally DID get pregnant 6 times but doesn't believe in abortion so she spent her 22nd birthday blowing all her food stamps on cupcakes at the dollar store. And then couldn't pay her rrent so she and her litter are sleeping on benches at the Greyhound station. Must be charging the internet time on her credit card.

EFG said...

yeah well while you are off in Fantasy Land collecting welfare or unemployment or whatever it is I will be working my job that some of us are smart enough to have stayed with for 20 years just in case we ever got caught in a rainy day recession!!
Hey ,maybe you & WTF can pull your food stamps and unemployment together and live in a commune praising all the smart people in the world with 13 yr old cars and huge resourses to fall back on???
Smug asses..you go ahead and sit there feeling smug, I know both of you feel like shit collecting foodstamps! It sucks to be in that posistion but ya know what,maybe thats what it will take for both of you to get rid of that nasty bitchy,attitude towards all the others that your case workers are helping beside you,oh and by the way..your welcome for the food that my tax payers money is putting on your tables!!

EFG said...

yeah but I bet that 7 dollars an hr is looking good to your broke ass right about now!
Come on cali..what are you or your husband making an hr???..uh..yeah thats right..NADA!!!!

cali mom said...

oh, I forgot that you're the rocket scientist. You never realized that unemployment benefits come out of your very own paycheck for YOU? Like, every single paycheck you've ever earned? You seem to think it's some sort of a handout, paid for by somebody else. If you had ever worked legally, you'd know that, so you've revealed yourself as a criminal as well as a moron.

cali mom said...

And actually, his unemployment benefit is worth much more than $7/hr. Sorry to burst your little smug bubble.

But I digress....... said...

Exactly what is the intent of ISYN?
What is the point of Overheard at the Drugstore? I employ a Nanny and every now and again I log onto this site to check in and what I find is a ridiculous catfight with the same posters over and over again. Why do you do this? Seriously, there are many chat boards you can go to and park yourselves daily----I just don't think the original point of ISYN was one of them...
To the OP at the drugstore--you're probably long gone but I hope you resolved your situation. All the best to nannies and their employers, good grief.

mom said...

Gee, I went to be early last night and missed all the fireworks!

I think we're in a really unique time right now, and it's very sad that a lot of people who have worked hard for years, paid taxes, and done what we have all been taught are the responsible things we need to do to protect our families' security are having to bear the stigma that has been created over the last several decades by the multitudes of people in our country who have MISUSED and TAKEN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE of these aid programs, originally designed to be SAFETY NETS for EMERGENCY SITUATIONS, as a "career option" instead of actually making an atttempt to get out and get jobs. I suspect we all know of people who have baby after baby and collect ever increasing amounts of government aid as they continue to reproduce irresponsibly...knowing that every new mouth is another free paycheck from Uncle Sam. (Just look at the unwed moron welfare mom in California who just pooped out eight new babies to go along with the six she already had...and we are paying for that! How does our system allow that...and who the hell paid for the in vitro?) I'm sure we all know of people who use disability but don't actually need it. (It you can sit and play on a computer at home all day long, you can certainly manage to earn a living typing on one at a job.) But you get the point.

I think that instead of embarrassing people who NEED help in a dire situation, through no fault of their own, we should have revamped the whole system a long time ago and made it all but impossible for people to take advantage the way they have been allowed to for so long. That way there would be no shame...and we would also have enough stashed away that we could actually help the ones who need it to a decent degree. I just hate the abuse of the system. I think that's where the anger and shame come in for so many of us...the abuse...not the people who need a hand UP.

As for the mortgage crisis..it may sound cold...but yeah, I believe a lot of the poeple who lost out on their homes in the recent mortgage industry debacle did so because their eyes got a little bigger than their wallets. I believe many of them were led along by their nose rings by greedy lenders...which doesn't absolve them of responsibility for their own situations, but makes it a little bit more understandable anyway. I remember when we bought our first home and were applying for loans. We researched everything we could about loans first off. Then we made sure to ask for a loan with no negative amortization. Then we calculated what the payments would be at the top interest rate , and how many years it might possibly take to reach that level, to be sure his slated income would sustain that house payment at that point. We used that information to buy a house in a very specific price range. It worked out very well for us, but part of it was luck too, because in the year after we bought the house it went up in value by $100,000.00 (Claifornia, ya know)and the economy went nuts so that it seemed to be raining money on everybody. Admittedly, had the economy done what it has just done and he had been laid off or severely reduced in pay, we may have had a real problem keeping our house...so I know absolutely that there are also some very responsible, hard working people who got burned in all of this too. But yeah, a lot of greed contributed to all of these homes that are being foreclosed right now too. Again, the responsible people are bearing the brunt of the stigma right alongside the greedy ones. It's really too bad.

Phoenix said...

I think that everyone on food stamps should have to prove citizenship, and get drug tested. This was the Americans aren't supporting habits and illegals. (My opinion tho)

Heres a question: What about the people that couldn't save money? My husband couldn't work and I am the sole provider. I haven't been working long enough to save for potential disasters. I am still paying off student loans and trying to feed a family of 3. Was i stupid? Were all the single moms living paycheck to paycheck stupid for not saving any money? What about the people who were mislead by the loan officers and were put in a place they couldn't escape. Most Americans can't save for disasters because they don't have the excess money to do so. And now they go to the state for help who doesn't have the funds to really help anyone anyway, thus throwing the country into a deeper deficit.
We are all in the same boat it seems, whether you have money saved or not.

And as far as the argument over Cali Mom... that is the stupidest thing I have ever witnessed. i have absolutly no problem with any of the posters here. I have problems with some of the statements that are made by such posters, but to be angry at the person when in fact you are angry at the action is dumb. Telling someone that they are a bitch or what not isn't nice at all... A few of you need to learn that a persons opinion doesn't make them any less of a person than you.

freaka-nemonics said...

EBF funds is like a welfare check in the form of a debit card or credit card. you can use it at the store. must be nice.

fucking losers.

get jobs.

mom said...

Phoenix,
You are so right that most of us are/were quite vulnerable in those early years when we are just trying to make ends meet, let alone save anything extra. And sometimes bad things like this do happen. When disasters such as this current economic situation happen, there are definitely some innocent people trying to do all the right things who are left out in the cold. That's what our government aid system of safety nets was SUPPOSED to be about. Now too many people just make welfare, or whatever system they choose to cheat and abuse, their "career choice" just because they can. That's a shame, IMO. And no, it doesn't leave enough in the coffers to really help the ones who need and deserve it.

As far as the loans go though, I still think that the people who let the loan officers "lead them down the garden path" were mostly victims of either their own greed, or not taking the time to educate themselves about what they were undertaking before they signed all of those loan papers. In life, one cannot just float along, oblivious, make uninformed decisions without doing the proper research, and then blame the guy who sold them the Brooklyn Bridge for "taking advantage." Sure the salesman is a creep...but he was just doing his job. Caveat Emptor.

Another problem that has sunk a lot of people recently is this notion that seems so prevalent that everybody must have everything everybody else has, RIGHT NOW, no matter whether they have any money or not to pay for all of it. So many young and starting our people nowadays have credit debt up the yin yang...all brand new furniture, new cars, giant televisions, whatever...and they are still at that place in life where you are speaking of Phoenix...just making ends meet and not yet in a position to put anything aside. And with all of the credit debt, it will be all the longer when that day arrives when they can even start to save for emergencies. And if something happens with the economy like we have just seen, they are so mired in debt that any pay cut at all is a major league disaster and they face losing everything...instead of prehaps just picking up their second hand, but fully paid for, furniture and moving their debt free selves to a smaller apartment until the crisis passes.

The day for having nice things comes for most everybody who patiently puts aside. It's fun when that day comes...but you know what? In the end they're just things and you eventually realize that they didn't actually change your HAPPINESS quotient much, if any, at all. Really, I don't know how our society has gotten so focused on owning so much crap. And now people are literally suffering for it.

drsalot said...

So many irresponsible people living beyond their means have caused this banking and credit collapse. The sleezier narcissists look out for themselves. They "buy" in better neighborhoods than they can afford and jump ship right before their mortgage crashes. I've seen some sheisters end up in 10 million dollar homes, having nailed their mark. Face it, chicas; the only people getting ahead these days are those who wipe their asses with other people's heads (and children).

WTF? said...

i agree with everything you said, mom. when we were just starting out, we lived in a tiny, cheap apartment with furniture from goodwill and never ate out. our television was a tiny black and white number inherited from my parents. we still saved money from each paycheck, even though it might only be $50. i feel like people today feel so entitled and i just don't get it. if you don't have 3 months of expenses and 20% down payemnt saved up, then you can't really AFFORD a house, even if some broker has cnvinced you otherwise. that used to be just plain common sense.

lauren said...

Speaking of Rye, I found this gem in the police blotter:

1/13: Young Mamaroneck woman was seen walking north in southbound lane of Boston Post Road near Rye Road. Meanwhile, a driver in a Nissan with hazard lights on was keeping track with her in northbound lane. Pedestrian said she did not trust her babysitter, the Nissan driver, and wanted to hurt herself. Taken by ambulance to Greenwich Hospital

lauren said...

Oh wait, there's one more nanny gem in the Rye Record this week...

1/20: Dearborn Avenue resident reported she had hired a new nanny and, when the woman “didn’t work out,” drove her to train station. Discovered wedding and engagement rings gone from end table. Statement taken

Phoenix said...

I do think that most people do live beyond their means. But I will tell you that it is really not the college kids or people my age just starting out. Everyone I know lives in one bedroom apartments with room mates and whatever. They eat only fast food (cheapest) and they have a TV. But the rent for a one bedroom apartment can still be at 800.00 per month if you don't want to live in a bad neighborhood. Healthy food equals expensive food. I try to buy fuits and veggies but they are always so expensive (it could also be my state). It seems that the country has now made it nearly impossible for people just starting out to really make it. And if the go to college it is so expensive (costs about as much as a mortgage now) when they do enter the workforce they are already in debt, and now that the work force is dwindling how are these educated people going to find jobs? It is a cycle that I have seen time and time again. While I know most young people TRY to save it is really not that easy.
I also think that elderly people are getting the raw end of the deal too. I was raised to always respect your elders and take care of them. But this country has lost sight of that. I knew a lady who was 98 years old. When she was 75 the bank gave her a reverse mortgage. Well she outlived the mortgage and they kicked her to the curb. She died in a homeless shelter. What kind of greedy bastard can take advantage of an old lady like that? I often wonder where all the morals went. Elderly getting robbed.
We had an incident in Phoenix where an elderly man was hit by a car, as he was laying on the side of the raod people passed by him and a couple of men took his shoes and his wallet, then another lady took his groceries. As he lay their in critical condition no one even called the police!!! I feel sad when I look at what has become of people, no one helping one another and no one really wanting to anymore.
I understand that people with the bad loans should have done research and they themselves are partly to blame, but it is natural for people to reach for the stars. Other people are supposed to tell them you can't have it all yet and wait, but no one did. We are all creatures of greed (That's the American dream) I think that I am going to move to Europe one day, where they still value family time and they don't think that you are supposed to married to your job. I would move to the beach but being Irish with white white skin and red hair... I would not make it too long. So Amsterdam it is!!!

mom said...

Phoenix,
You make very good points...all of them.
I am now wondering where were all of these people who should have warned the younger generation about how to be responsible. As you correctly say, " but it is natural for people to reach for the stars. Other people are supposed to tell them you can't have it all yet and wait, but no one did."
I guess we as parents need to all learn from this and teach our kids better than what society is teaching them. It seems maybe an entire generation has largely been failed. When my husband and I got married, it was a no brainer for us that we bought nothing we couldn't afford with cash (which remains our policy to this day...NOTHING on credit, except the house), got the cheapest apartment we could find between our two schools (not fancy at all, but we loved it because it was OUR home), and used old furniture we had scavanged from our parents' garages. We used my childhood bedroom furniture, which I painted a more "adult" color, and I sewed slipcovers myself for the truly ugly furniture we had inherited (and I went to a fabric warehouse and bought really cheap second quality fabric to do that.) And we had it far better than most because our parents had paid entirely for our educations and sent us each on our way with brand new cars...but it was still a struggle. We allowed ourselves ONE trip to a fast food restaurant per month, and I cooked most meals from scratch (cheaper to buy raw ingredients than cans.) We packed lunches to take to school because we couldn't afford to eat at the cafeterias. I clipped coupons and then on Thursdays I would buy TWO newspapers because that was the day they had the double coupons in them. You could only use one newspaper's worth of coupons per trip to the grocery, so I would buy the nonperishables with the first set of coupons and then load them into the car and go back in and use the second set of coupons. MY average weekly grocery bill was $30.00...would have been $60.00 but I saved just about half of that with all of the coupon nonsense. We did not put meat in our spaghetti sauce, but added broccoli instead (cheaper.) And we were JUST AS HAPPY then as we are now in our big house (which we purposely bought in a price range that was less than 1/3 of what the bank would have qualified us to borrow)and eating at nice restaurants whenever the mood strikes. So no, not everybody has that feeling of having to have it all. But I think my husband and I were very blessed in that it was a "No brainer for us to conduct our finances that way because we had each been raised by very responsible parents who modeled responsible spending and moderation in the need for material posessions all of our lives...both sets went from rags to riches, literally, just as we have now done. And we are grateful for everything we have because we waited for it and earned everythimg bit by bit. I often wonder how much satisfaction there is for couples who start out with "having it all." Sure it's lovely to have a beautiful home on day one....but do they know the pleasure of having just one piece of beautiful furniture...maybe "their" first sofa...arrive at the door after having used somebody elses used sofa for seven years?
I think we owe it to our kids to work to wash away that sense of entitlement and reintroduce the old fashioned concepts of patience, hard work, responsibility and gratitude. As we are now seeing, "having it all" isn't at all the good thing that people erroneously have believed it to be. Posessions have thaken the place of good old fashioned values and pride in a job well done.
Hang in there Phoenix. You'll turn that corner one day and it will feel so good...because you have worked and EARNED it. It took us years and years to finally feel that cushion of safety...but we didn't let it stop us from enjoying our lives and our kids to the fullest. (In fact, we kind of had fun with the process...made sort of a sport of trying to make everything work.) Pack some sandwiches and head to the beach...it's free. So many ways to enjoy life if we just live it instead of chasing the bigger house or the next posession.

So yeah, a lot of people got greedy, but maybe they really didn't have the kinds of role models they needed to teach them better. Let's do better for our kids so they don't end up suffering too.

mom said...

See WTFs comments above. She must have had parents like my husband and I did. And I'll bet she'll also admit that money or lack of it did not affect her overall happiness level.

Phoenix said...

I agree mom... what I am seeing now is that kids are taught that money is everything. Money makes you who you are. It lets other people know what you are.
I have a little cousin who is about 17 and he has flashy clothes, car and chains. when he comes to my house he looks around and says that my modest looking house is "ghetto" Now he has never seen a ghetto nor what the word really means, but to him having a 5 year old couch is bad and it looks bad on us. i feel for him that his mother only taught him money. the sad part is his mother has money but she is now finding out that it can't buy a good, loyal, honest person to spend her life with.

I hope that parents will start to bring back the old ways, I was lucky enough to be taught how to work and struggle is a part of life. Maybe the recession was needed to get people back on track to what really matters.

WTF? said...

how old are you, mom? my dh and i are in our mid-forties.

at any rate, i so agree with you. money does not buy happiness. i look back fondly at those early days. i never really considered them a struggle because we had each other. still do. :)

mom said...

WTF, I just turned 47. (I don't feel that old!) That explains a lot...sounds like we were both lucky enough to catch at least the tail end of that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" generation. Fortunately, my parents are from the midwest...grew up as farmers, actually...who are used to hard work and putting a little away at a time to get ahead in the end.
I feel especially fortunate because, through the hard work of my father, he became a very successful businessman and moved us to an area in California that was, even at that time (70's and 80s), already into gross materialism in its full glory. I went to high school with kids who drove high end model Mercedes, BMWs and the like, lived in mansions carved into cliffs above the ocean, and wore expensive designer clothes to school every day. Being that my parents were midwestern in their values, they refused to provide us with too much excess, even when it was being enjoyed by others all around us. (In fact, our living room had no furniture for some time, because they could not buy it outright after buying the home...which actually caused some of the kids at school to tease us. But, thankfully, my sister and I did not feel embarrassed for ourselves, but rather bewildered by why they even cared what we had in our house, or would bother to take the time to try and teasu us about it.) My parents did make sure my sister and I had a modest few of the nice clothes that the other girls had, but if we wanted to have extra things, we were welcome to earn the extra money for them ourselves...which I happily did without feeling sorry for myself, or slighted because others had more and had it handed to them. I purchased my first, cute but modest, car by myself...and then later as graduation approached, my parents did give me a new Toyota (for which I was very grateful, and which I drove for 8 years) to get me started in life with a good car. (Unfortunately, the materialistic, entitled attitude did not escape my sister...maybe because she was younger when we moved there, or maybe because that's just how she is...but it has done nothing but harm her all of her life...still to this day she cannot shake it and the bitterness it causes her.)

Oh my gosh, and some of the people who looked down on us for not being as rich as them...many of the kids turned out AWFUL. Maybe if some of those parents had been teaching their kids to be kind and look at people for who they are instead of what they have, they wouldn't be crying now.

That is why I have tried to emulate my parents' example for my children. It has been important for me all along to think I could give them a college education, as I received so gratefully (and which my father told me so many times as I was in college was his greatest joy in life to be able to provide for me), so I made provisions for that for all of them right from the start and saved whenever and wherever I could for their college funds. (And my dad was right, it is a great joy for me also. Although I don't think anybody should feel bad either if they can't do this for their kids because it costs an arm and a leg and its just not a possibility for everybody.) MY oldest is about to graduate from college, and he is going to start his life with just what I got...straight teeth (also important to me, as it was something my mom had always made a big deal of giving me that she never got as a child, and so it meant a lot to me), a decent car, and a college education. He knows this and is currently saving his money for the date, a few months from now, when he is 100% on his own. He expects nothing from us financially, as I have explained to all of my children for years that we have this financial plan in place for their own good, so that they will not grow up feeling entitled and that the world owes them anything that they do not earn. In fact, my husband and I, just last month took our son out to choose a decent car to replace his dying starter car and it was all we could do to convince him to even accept our offer to pay for it. (That made me feel all the better about doing it.) I am confident that he will not be coming to us for money, for anything...and I am confident that he realizes that his choices alone will affect the quality of life he enjoys from here on out. One down, two to go!

jada said...

repost: I accidently posted this in another thread, please delete the other one!

Phoenix, you are so full of wisdom lately. I don't mean that in a bad way, like you didn't before, but lately, I really look forward to reading your comments!

To Mom & WTF, I grew up with my parents always telling me that when they were just married how much of a daily struggle they had, and now that they have money, they kind of miss those days. Things seemed more simple and easy, despite not having much money. They only had each other and made it through the hardship together. I really enjoyed hearing the stories they'd tell us about what they'd do for fun because they were too broke to go out anywhere, and on the rare occasion they had a few dollars, what kinds of things they did with it. So, I can see exactly where the both of you are coming from! And Mom, I loved hearing your stories of sewing the slipcovers and things you had to "make do" with. They are real gems. Thank you both for your comments, too. :)

Feb 5, 2009 3:56:00 PM

mom said...

Howdy Jada! I just removed this response for the other thread to match up with your moved post!


mom said...
Jada,
Thank you so much. I do have the fondest memories of those days. I just finished writing a message to WTF about that on another thread.
I guess what we're trying to convey is that the journey is what makes life special and memorable...not arriving at the end on day one. (In fact, when you're at the end, what more is there to do? Look forward to more expensive versions of everything you already have? Big whoop!)My husband and I have the best time reminiscing about those early days. I think its so special to us because its sort of like we "grew up" together and everything we have we earned together...him by earning the money and me by doing everything on my end to contribute by making things nice as best I could while trying to be very modest in our spending...making and sewing whatever I could instead of buying. Our lives are 100% intertwined because of our working together, and you just can't walk into that. And, although I know my husband cares not a whit about curtains and such, I always saw the pride in his face when somebody would come over and compliment something in our house, not knowing I had made it, and ask where we got the really great curtains, or who painted the mural, or whatever. (I pictured him thinking to himself, "That's MY wife"...'cause that's how his face looked anyway.)
I think the pride of earning ones way and growing into who we eventually become cannot be replaced by any amount of money, lavish travel, or material success.
I can feel that same sense of accomplishment in every post where somebody talks about where they came from and how they sacrificed to get where they are now. (And Phoenix, in how you're going that same route. You are at a great place...enjoy it!) How can you compare that kind of pride with "look at my diamonds?"

Feb 5, 2009 4:39:00 PM

WTF? said...

mom, we had similar ubringings and similar early married years. one of the things that hs kept me frugal over the years was that i really wanted to be primarily a stay at hom mom once i had kids and we had to find ways to make that work on one salary. i do an occasional bit of contract work here and there, but mostly i've concentrated on our home life for the past 12 years, even though i have a master's degree. people can mock our 13 year old corolla all they want, but we haven't had to make a payment on it for the last 8years. we've also stayed in the same house we bought in 1993 (our first home) and don't regret that either. i've had the pleasure of close relationships with the people i love most. what could be better? yesterday, after hearing the horrid divorce stories of two close friends (both very well off), i was so happy to be able to snuggle up to my husband and drift off to sleep.

mom said...

WTF, you said:

"one of the things that has kept me frugal over the years was that i really wanted to be primarily a stay at hom mom once i had kids and we had to find ways to make that work on one salary."

BINGO! Why don't people seem to get that? WHY?

I can't tell you how many snotty comments I had to let slide off my back from snooty women of two-lawyer (or other professional women too..but man, women lawyers are a particularly brutally snotty bunch I hafta say! Whats with that?) couples about my small house or old cars in the early years. I remember one pointing out to me, on her first visit to my home, that my house was "not really a house" but what she would consider a "patio home." (It was a freestanding frickin house with a yard all around it, but too small for her to deem worthy of the lofty title of "house!") I just looked at her and thought,
"Really? You needed to bother to say something that rude out loud to my face, in my home? Do you feel superior now?"
Another had the audacity to poke her head into the window of my car as I got in after the valet parking guy (she always made sure to have valet and a bartender at all of her parites)at her party had brought it around for me and say loudly enough for others waiting for their cars to overhear...which was her intent, of course(of my husbands three year old Volvo, BTW), "God! Haven't you had this car for like three or four years now?! I swear you two act like you don't have two nickels to rub together!" And yet another had the nerve to say to me (apparently assuming I was too dumb to get the insult...or else not really caring) that she could NEVER stay at home and raise a child because her IQ was too high to endure such an unstimulating existence. She went on to explain to me that an intelligent mind needs continual stimulation. I had every reason in the world to believe that my IQ was actually higher that hers, BTW...which it took every ounce of my restraint to keep from telling her. (My parents also taught me strict manners...DANG!)

But every time somebody said something that stupid to me, I never felt bad about my choice to be a SAHM. In fact, I sometimes felt like I was getting away with something being so lucky to be able to be with my kiddos all day every day. LIke I had a hold of the world's best kept secret. So I was able to keep my head up and think to myself, "How do these people just NOT GET IT?"

mom said...

BTW WTF..There's one more reason I try to be nice to people on here as much as I can...

It has happened several times now where I started out seriously disagreeing with somebody here on some topic or another, only to find out later that we have more in common that I had originally imagined, and I end up really liking them. Then I'm glad I didn't make an enemy of them before gtting to "know" them a little better ;)

WTF? said...

I'd be hard pressed to make an enemy out of anyone who is decent and normal, Mom. I'm just like everyone else. A few topics get me feeling all prickly. :)

mom said...

yeah. me too ;)