I bet my problem will be a first for this blog. I hired my nanny about 3 months ago. She's great with my kids, and they really like her a lot. I have 3 kids: 9, 7 and 5. She's really athletic and has no problem keeping up with them. I just recently found out why. My nanny is gay. It never occured to me that she could be, I just assumed she was "tomboy-ish".My neighbor pointed out to me a rainbow sticker on her truck. I didn't know what it meant until my neighbor told me. So, I started paying more attention to her and now feel so naive for letting this slip past me. I finally asked her yesterday, and she confirmed it for me, saying that she hoped it wouldn't get in the way of her job.
Here's my dilemma: I don't really mind so much, except I worry about what kind of influence it might be on my 9 year old daughter. The other thing I'm worried about is my husband. He's a little more conservative than me and I'm not too sure he'd be ok with this. As a matter of fact, it may upset him greatly. So, what should I do? I don't think I can keep this from him, especially now that at least one of my neighbors know! I would like to think that he would want to keep her on just because she does such a great job. Lastly, what should I tell my kids? If my husband somehow ends up accepting this, what do I say to them? I just wonder if they're too young for such a dose of reality! Please help!
106 comments:
You said yourself you didn't notice and that she takes great care of your kids. What is the big deal?
If you are so concerned, why don't you mention it to her and say while you respect her decision, you don't want your kids to know cause they will ask a million questions.
Tell your husband bigotry is SO last century. It is almost 2009!
honestly, this isn't YOUR dilemma. the only problem you have is that your are too closed minded to realize that there is nothing wrong with her being gay and that it's none of your business. unless you sense a threat towards one of your kids, keep it to yourself. who cares if your neighbor knows? or your husband for that matter. if she is as good of a nanny as you claim she is, stop worrying about it and move on.
Well, that's a non-problem if I ever read one. Gay people are part of the world. They aren't something to shield your kids from! No reason you need to discuss the nanny's sexuality with the kids, if that is what you were talking about, any more than you'd need to talk about the nanny's sexuality if she were straight.
If she mentions her girlfriend and the kids ask questions, a simple 'most women date and get married to men but some women date and partner up with other women' seems like it would suffice.
My parents had a close gay friend when I was growing up, back in the closeted 70's, and they never had to mention anything special - when I was 9 something came up that was confusing (he mentioned something about a boyfriend perhaps?)and I asked a question and got an answer similar to the one I suggested above. I didn't give it a second thought.
If your husband is such a bigot that he would fire a nanny due solely to her being gay, you actually do have a problem, but it has nothing to do with the nanny.
Seriously, though, I wonder why you are so concerned about this. I thought we were way past the times when being gay was cause for suspicion or discrimination for educated, thoughtful people...I mean, even my fundamentalist Christian relatives have come to understand that they can be against gay marriage for their own reasons and still respect and interact with gay people and not see those people as having some sly, sordid agenda to rip asunder the moral fabric of America.
Hope you come to terms with this before you lose a great nanny and regret it!
YOU didn't notice.
Why do your children need to be informed of her sexuality?
Although you'd be better off teaching your children about gay people and to be respectful of other's choices even when you disagree. They will learn from others much quicker than you expect about sexuality.
A gay nanny should present no problems. I live in Boston and there are many diverse, "alternative"-style families and childcare providers. Considering your own feelings, tell her not to discuss her sexuality, or any sex-related issues, with your children. She should not let girlfriends (lovers) visit her while she is in your home, or with the children. You may want to discuss her lesbian orientation more with her so you are comfortable when you bring it up with your husband.
Clara
I think you gave some very sensible advice! Good post!
Um....I don't understand the comment that you realized the reason your nanny is athletic is because she is gay... hmmm...
My mother-in-law is gay and it never caused anyone's kids in the family to "want" to be gay or get ideas, or anything like that nature. Or cause the kids to be influenced or suggested, it teaches kids to accept and not judge. If you shelter your kids they may end up closed minded like their dad.
I think she is a geat influence in your life.. take the opportunity to learn to appreciate everyone for who they are.
If you have someone that is good with your kids and you trust with your kids what does her dating preferences have to do with you?
I would let her go immediately so she can find a family who is not judgemental and will appreciate her for who she is with her charges and within the family.
She and the next family will thank you for the rest of their time together.
Your children can ask you in 20 years time what happened to that great nanny they had and you can proudly state, well, it was her s-e-x-u-a-l-i-t-y. We had to let her G-O, you understand, right?
Hmmmm, I am pretty conservative myself, and although I have a "to each his own" attitude about other people's lives...I also have the attitude that I don't want my kids thinking its just one more viable option for a life choice. And I also do not want them to be judgmental or hateful towards others based on their choices. I have gay friends and love them just as much as anybody else...but I do resent the media so strongly pushing that its just another form of normal. So...maybe I understand how your husband feels to a degree...although it sounds like he may actually not like gay people? If that's the case, he, may not go for what I suggest.)
If your kids are very young, I would not tell them about the love life of anybody, gay or straight...because they don't understand, care, or need to know who's doing whom. If your nanny is good, then keep her on and let her keep doing a good job. I would ask her not to discuss her love life with the kiddos or bring girlfriends to the house, especially if they need ot be affectionate and raise uncomfortable questions. (My dad's wife has some lesbian friends near where we live and once while babysitting they took my young kids out to eat with them...which would have been fine with me...except apparently they felt the need to make out at the table...which invited a lot of uncomfortable discussion...and I was pissed....and so was my dad, who was there and yet felt too awkward to say anything to them.) So, in other words, discretion is always good when caring for children, whether nanny is gay or straight.
If your kids are older and can get (or already understand) the concept, or are likely to find out...then explain to them as best you can what it means to be gay and that it is only one part of her and that she is still a nice person and a good nanny, and it is not necessary for them to feel any differently about her than they did before they knew. Believe me, you are ging to encounter this sooner or later anyway when a good friend comes out or a family member's child comes out, etc. When they eventually find out, when the time is right, already knowing and liking her will put a friendly face to the whole concept and help them to learn tolerance for other people's choices.
I hope that when you fire her she takes you to court.
You can not fire someone because of their sexual orientation.
I ALSO hope that your kids turn out gay, maybe that will open your eyes up a bit.
Ugh, OP, this is 2008!
Do you think she is going to take your daughter to a secret gay recruitment camp and turn her into a lesbian?
How sad for you that you have lived such a sheltered life.
I think some of you are being too harsh. OP did say "I don't really mind so much."
I think she's more concerned about her kids. I would also tell the nanny just what others here are saying though... ask her not to be affectionate with other women around your children, that way it won't invite any uncomfortable questions.
Anonymous said...
Your neighboor has a problem with gay people and so do you.
That's discrimination and I hope your nanny sue you if you fire her because of her sexual option.
Your children aren't retarded, that's not wrong if one day they learn that she is gay. But I don't think there's any need to tell them that. That's her personal life, none of yours or your children's business. They are not being molested and she isn't trying to teach them to be gay.
What next?You won't hire Jews, Arabians and Blacks too?!
6:56 PM
RE-POST for ANONYMOUS!
You need a MONIKER!!
Oh no, I hope you are able to insulate your daughter from reality! What if she finds out people come in different colors! And income brackets! Dear God the humanity!
Hopefully you live in a gated community and homeschool your kids so they will never ever have to learn that there is diversity in the world and they can grow up distrusting everyone that doesn't look exactly like them.
Anonymous said...
And what's with people putting their children in a bubble?You guys are going to die before your children and what are they going to do in this oh-so-scary-world?!give me a break! I take care of children whom moved from NYC to L.A. and the 11 years old had no problems or questions while she was reading the magazine about that girl who became a guy and gave birth!
6:59 PM
RE-POST for ANONYMOUS!
You need a MONIKER!
Shame on you. Her sexual preferences has nothing to do with how well she does her job. And how exactly will this affect your daughter? The only thing your daughter is learning is intolerance from YOU.
Would you address a straight nanny's sex life with your kids? Probably not. There is no reason to address your gay nanny's sex life either. What she does out of your home is none of your business. I'd be ashamed of my husbands feelings on gays if I were you. Gay isn't catching - grow up, and your husband as well.
Be very cautious and check your state laws. While sexual orientation is not a protected status federally it is under many states Human Rights Acts. You could be sued for compensatory damages (her humiliation, pain and suffering), punitive damages (to punish you for breaking the law), as well as back pay and front pay. Now most states have laws about how many employees you have to fall under this but in my state it is ONE employee. So tread carefully.
If there are anti-discrimination laws in your state on sexual preference, I hope your nanny is aware of them. If there aren't, I hope she reads this and informs you that she cannot continue to work with such bigoted ignorant a-holes as you and your husband and leaves you high and dry tomorrow.
OK, not really. The better solution would be for her to help you understand better than you do that being gay is not a lifestyle choice as some dimwits seem to think, but part of a person's genetic makeup, as much as their hair color, and that it is just plain silly to think it would affect her job performance (or that is ANY of your BUSINESS!) in any way. Especially since you have suddenly decided AFTER observing her fantastic job performance up till now, that it "might".
Some of you are so damn dramatic! OP never said she was going to fire the nanny. She WANTS her husband to accept her, and she is trying to find the best way to field any questions her kids might have.
Chill out a little!
OP, I can hardly believe that in this day and age, with the ages of your children, that you and your husband are having this kind of reaction. Your kids are 9, 7, and 5! Come on.
My older son has had a friend with two mommies every since he was in the four year olds' class at nursery school. (He was three years old when he met her.) This is just part of life. Some people want to spend their lives with someone of the same sex, and most want to spend their lives with someone of the opposite sex.
It is bizarre that you are avoiding this issue with your children. It would be a great loss for your kids and your family if you get rid of this sitter because she is a fun "tomboyish" type with whom your kids have so much fun, because she happens to also be a lesbian. Ridiculous! This is 2008!
And in case you all haven't heard, Obama chose an evangelist who discriminates against gays & lesbians to do his inauguration! Shameful.
As a nanny, I prefer to observe certain standards regarding my private life. That means I am unlikely to discuss my dating life or sexual partners in depth with my employers, and I would DEFINITELY not do so with my charges.
I would also not bring a date over to my place of work, nor would I make out with a SO at work. Now, if I were in a committed relationship, I might ask my employers if my SO could meet them and the kids, but I would respect their wishes on the matter.
I bet your nanny might have the same standards. It sounds like she is comfortable enough with you to discuss her sexual orientation, so now you have to discuss your house rules with her.
Set limits, establish boundaries, and don't act as if her sexual orientation is the MAIN reason for the discussion. Be matter of fact, say you should have had this discussion with her months ago, and explain your "house rules" to her.
Of course, this assumes your DH will not decide to fire a good nanny because she kisses girls instead of boys. If he does insist on letting her go, be prepared for your kids to be very upset.
If and when your children ask you, you DH, or your nanny if she has "a boyfriend", simply say, "No, but she does have a girlfriend." Keep any discussion simple and to the point, without extra details the kids aren't asking about.
HTH!
um snob, get over it! she shouldnt be discussing her sexuality with the kids (straight or gay) and you and your husband cannot fire her for being gay, thats discrimination sweetie BIG no no. tell your neighbor to mind her own business.
OP sounds like Bozo the Ass Clown and her husband sounds like Farty the Dumb f@ck.
oh yea, just because someones athletic doesnt make them gay. are you retarded?
Finally, I see a comment that actually addresses the OP's question. Excellent post, chick. You pretty much said all I wanted to say.
um, lola, could we please not use that word? it's just as offensive as OPs comment about athletic gays.
Trust me -- in this day in age I guarantee you your 9-year-old and your 7-year-old know what gay is. Most likely your 5 year old does too.
What a great life lesson if they, for the rest of their lives, equate "gay" with a great nanny and a person they loved and was an integral part of their childhood.
Think about it.
One more thing - just because has a rainbow sticker doesn't make her gay. She may just be a gay rights advocate or friends with a lot of people that are gay.
Being active and athletic doesn't correlate to being gay... sounds like she is great with your kids and your family, and if she is adamant about not letting it become an issue at work, chances are your kids have no idea and won't know unless somebody tells them. She sounds professional and great otherwise, so I'd say let it be what it is, and as long as you keep her personal life out of work, sounds like that's where it will stay.
Think about it
Seriously, maybe you should think about it. Did you even read the post?
"My neighbor pointed out to me a rainbow sticker on her truck. I didn't know what it meant until my neighbor told me. So, I started paying more attention to her and now feel so naive for letting this slip past me. I finally asked her yesterday, and she confirmed it for me, saying that she hoped it wouldn't get in the way of her job."
She ASKED her if she was gay! Sheesh, don't you people even read these things?
You can't catch 'gay' like you catch cooties. So don't worry about your child turning gay.
Just when I think this world is changing for the better I see stuff like this. There is no room for hatred in our world be it over the color of someone's skin, their religion or their sexuality.
If your nanny is wonderful with the kids then that is all that should matter. If you do fire her because she is gay I hope she sues the pants of off you guys.
Ugh. Everyone needs to grow up.
Some people don't feel how you do. Get over it. How can you judge someone, for judging someone?
Anyone has ANY right to fire someone who cares for their children for ANY reason. A simple "I don't want my kids raised that way" is reason enough, and there will be no law suit.
Honestly. Must we sue everyone for EVERYTHING? Do you not think courts have better things to think about?
I hope, OP, that somewhere in there (I couldn't read all the posts, as most of them are repeated idiocy) is some advice for you that will actually help instead of making you feel bad for asking this.
And personally, if I thought there was a huge chance of my kids finding out, I'd fire her. It's up to ME when homosexuality is introduced so personally to my children. I never even knew there was a possibility of girls being with girls until I was 12, and here I am, completely fine with gays/bis.
You can't shield your children from the way life really is these days. People are gay and straight. Regardless of their orientation, they are still people and it shouldn't matter. As long as she is doing her job and doing it well, that's the priority.
If you need to, be open with her and talk about your concerns. While it doesn't bother you about her orientation, you aren't sure how you should approach it if your kids ask.
I can assure you, your daughter will not "catch gay" while having this nanny care for her.
There is so so so much more that I would like to voice my opinion over but it's been an absolutely horrid day for me and my four ambien are finally kicking in so I can escape this day.
Also, most anything I would respond with would match the disgust and disbelief most other commenter's are feeling.
"I have gay friends and love them just as much as anybody else...but I do resent the media so strongly pushing that its just another form of normal."
Mom, the reason it is GOOD that the media portrays gay as being normal is that people who are BORN gay (as they all are) won't feel ashamed of themselves and hide it all their lives making their "wives" and children miserable and being miserable themselves. The media may just portray gay as normal because IT IS!!
I agree that it is a delicate subject with a 9 year old child. If the child were younger, perhaps under three I would not say anything, but since your child is 9, I would have a discussion with her.
I would say that some people love boys, some love girls, and some love both. So your 9-yr. old is probably used to mostly seeing male/female couples and may not even be aware that there are couples who are the same gender. You can explain to her that the nanny is someone who loves girls and that should not be a factor in how your child views her. Then leave it up to your child how she will deal with it from there.
I disagree with people saying this is discrimination. In hiring a nanny, some people prefer to hire a male while others prefer a female. Some prefer to hire a young college student while others prefer an experienced mother or grandmother. I see ads requesting Spanish-speaking nannies, Christian nannies, etc. OP, your husband as well as yourself have the right to not want a gay person to be around your child if that is against your beliefs. For example, the bible does say being homosexual is a sin and if you are strict Christians, then having a lesbian nanny may not go well with what your daughter is learning in Sunday School.
If I were you, I would not have a problem with my nanny if she were a lesbian or bi. Maybe if she were a transvestite I would since that would be even harder to explain. As long as she treats your child well and is reliable, trustworthy and punctual...then her sexual orientation is not an issue. However, if your daughter is exposed to seeing her with her girlfriend, then again, like I mentioned before...a little pep talk should be in order.
Just caught up on this whole thread and mom, the dimwits label was not directed at you, because you are NOT a dimwit, but the uneducated belief that being attracted to one's own gender instead of the opposite one is something that a person chooses, instead of something that a person is born with, is absolutely ignorant and untrue. Unless you are trying to argue as some Christians do that if a person is gay, the simple and only acceptablle solution is to remain 100% celibate their entire life, or pretend to be straight.
Nobody is perfect and now we know that sentiment also applies to Mom, who has otherwise always been so evenly balanced, fair and reasonable.
Surprised
I wasn't too surprised by Moms comment. She's always struck me as kind of on the conservative side anyway. But that's ok. Everyone's allowed an opinion, and even better if they're not mean when giving it. I can still appreciate what she has to say, even though I disagree with her on this one.
Wow there goes another gay person that is just going to destroy an american family. Note the sarcasm.
You know what she will teach your daughter? To respect people of different backgrounds and beliefs. To be kind and considerate and perhaps she'll encourage her to be open minded to things she might not practice.
It is none of your bussiness. It does not affect her job.
If you fire her, you will set nothing but a bad example for your children.
By the way, being gay is not contagious. But being ignorant can be.
Perhaps this clip describes it best- watch it until the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unAVMqRmUNw
This is in response to the posters who feel like we are attacking the OP:
I just want to point out that children LEARN discrimination, not the other way around. If you behave as though everyone different from you is some kind of exotic scary zoo animal that is too dangerous to interact with, your kids WILL pick up on it.
I'm really grateful to my parents for raising me to be open minded.
I saw a KKK rally on the news when I was in 2nd grade and my dad had to explain racism to me because I simply didn't understand it. I did not know it existed.
I see these posts, and I think Wow, am I lucky. I've never missed out on friendships with people because they were gay or black or Jewish or Buddist. I hope the OP takes these posts to heart. Your nanny sounds great, and years from now, when your kids have gay classmates (and they will) I hope your kids will show them the same empathy and kindness your nanny showed them.
OK, let me explain further to be clear. I realize that some will never give any slack for other than their own opinions, and have no doubt this will be picked apart, but I see a lot of gray area on this one.
First, let me say that people who lump all Christians (or the dreaded "Conservative Christian") into one vocal, rabid, hate mongering group are no less mean or ignorant than those who lump into one group all jamaican nannies, blacks, muslims, or any other group that is saddled with a very vocal public minority that pretends to represent the entire group but only serves to give whatever group they belong to a bad name with their ignorant and irresponsible behavior.
So, as many may have guessed anyway by now, I am of the Christian faith...and take it very seriously. This subject (gayness) is one that I have struggled with understanding, and also as to what I am supposed to "think" for a long time. The bible can be (and is) interpreted by different people in thousands of different ways...even when it comes to the exact same passages...people just don't agree. So, what I have come to think on that is that it is up to each of us to read and decide what we think we are supposed to think and do and try to live up to that.
Some issues still leave me confused...and on those I make no solid claims or judgments.
The things I believe to be concretely true from my own reading are that
1) My main responsibility is to show other people love...no matter what they do or whether I agree with it (this is not always easy...as I am sitting here thinking of how I feel about Casey Anthony)
2) It is not my job (in fact, it is strictly forbidden) for me to judge other peoples behavior, or to even try to figure out who may and may not be going to heaven (except myself)...and especially not my place to ever predict to anybody whether their own behavior qualifies or disqualifies them from heaven. That's God's job and I leave it entirely to him. (I personally like to think that everybody will be given a chance at the end to choose God and have all forgiven...but I also realize it is not my job to put a PC lovey lovey spin on the bible in order to serve my desires, or to paint a pretty picture. What I want or think in no way changes the truth of what God will do...and, as I said, I have no idea whatsoever what that will be.
Now, with that said, I have a concern, that, along with a myriad of other things (many of which I myself do, because none of us is perfect)it may not be OK with God. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't (as I said before, it's not my job to choose, and I really do not know for sure)...but when I don't know concretely that something is true, I could never, in good conscience, say to somebody (people who I am, as I said, supposed to love and want the best for) "Go ahead and do *anything at all that the bible specifically mentions that we shouldn't*...God doesn't care." I wouldn't do it because...what if I do that and I'm wrong and I steer somebody wrong? I won't say anything to anybody about God that I don't know to be absolutely true. That's important to me. This does not apply only to being gay. It applies to everything I do not know or do not completely understand. For me personally, I have enough concern that, if it were me and I was attracted to women, it might give me pause...so how can I say to another..."Go ahead. It'll be fine?" That seems really selfish to me.(Oh, and I also believe that all sin is equal to God...so that none of us is better than another because our own sins are somehow less.) I would freely say to anybody "God loves you" because I know that's true, no matter what they do. (Yup...I'd even say that to Casey Anthony.) But I would never presume to put my own spin on something I don't fully understand...and this is one of those things. (With Casey, I would tell her God loves her...but I would never presume to tell her that He forgives her...or, on the other hand, that He condems her. His grace and forgiveness is His to give, not mine.)
One confusion I have is that I do believe that some people are just born gay...and I wonder why that would be allowed to happen if they're not supposed to be that way...because I also believe that God makes us as we are and that He is pleased with what He makes. And yeah, expecting somebody to be celebate for a lifetine seems fairly cruel...so who am I to presume to try to impose that on somebody...especially when I am so unsure as to what this all means? So, my personal choice is to try my best just to love people (That's a full time job sometimes), try my best not to judge people, and try my best not to lead anybody in the wrong direction when it comes to God...because how terrible would I feel when the day comes if God is sitting there looking at somebody with His hand on his hips and saying "What the heck?" And that person said to Him, "I'm so sorry. Mom says she speaks for you, and she told me it was OK or normal, or whatever." Or, how would I feel if the person was apologizing all over the place and God said, "What are you apologizing for? I made you the way you are and I am proud of you"...and the person said "OH. Mom says she speaks for you and she said I was wrong to do *whatever.*"
As for the people who hold rallies with ugly slogans on signs, I don't beleive that represents God, any more than it represents a real Christian. So, while everybody else is signing up for tolerance, how about just a smidgen also for those Christians who are trying to walk that fine line between total acceptance of everything and everything and doing what they believe God wants them to do too...as long as we aren't hurting anybody else with our beliefs? I just don't believe it's my place to say that "everything and anything is OK." As much as I might like to, I also want to try to honor what I believe God wants me to do, and not everything is my own personal choice in that regard. Again, real Christians don't hate...so don't judge us by those vocal few idiots who do.
If you were to fire her for this she could sue you. You said she is great with your kids and great with keeping up with them, so whats the problem?
People cannot turn people gay, so I don't think it would have any affect on your daughter. Especially because your children probably won't know she is gay unless you tell them. You didn't even know.
Unless the nanny is being unprofessional and meeting girls with your children, you really shouldn't have any worries.
I guess you could say something to her about how you don't want her talking or even mentioning or talking on the phone or anything like that around your children about anything with regard to that lifestyle.
But to fire her for being a great nanny just because she is gay is not right. She was not hiding anything because she admitted it and she has the sticker on her car.
Anonymous said...
If it isn't appropriate for a lesbian to nanny a 9 year old girl, then it isn't appropriate for a straight woman to nanny a 9 year old boy, either. Also, being gay is not the reason she is really athletic. She is athletic. And she is a lesbian. Those two characteristics don't relate to each other.
In other words, quick, send me your nanny's cell number, because I would love an athletic nanny who likes to romp around and have fun with my kids, and who I could trust to help my kids see that the world is made up of all sorts of different people, and that my kids need to learn to cherish and respect the differences in us all.
5:06 PM
RE-POST for Anonymous!
You need to pick a moniker!
I agree with "grow up," if you want people to be accepting of peoples differences you can't go around bashing people for how they feel. Try education the OP instead of calling her a bigot.
That was an absolutely beautiful post, Mom. You may not be perfect, but you are a true class act. This board is lucky to have you as a regular poster.
Thank you so much for your very thougtful response; I'm sure it took a lot of time and energy out of your Saturday.
Blessings to you!
Awww...thank you surprised. You are very sweet ;)
I have lived long enough and had it happen just enough times that somebody I truly have loved since childhood has turned out to be gay. (Twice for sure anyway.) And I would never want anybody to judge or hurt those people that I love...and I don't ever want to do that to anybody else either.
And as for my being imperfect...I'll gladly take that! The last perfect guy that lived...well, let's just say I don't begin to have what it would take to walk in the sandals He filled!
Eff this crap. So stupid. OP, how would you like you for your everyday reality to be considered something that children must be 'shielded' from?
Effing hell, even well meaning people who 'have gay friends' don't realize how patronizing they sound.
I just cannot even believe this is an issue that needs to be discussed.
sick of idiots,
for a person screaming for tolerance...you're not exhibiting much of it, or love, yourself.
If OP has very young children, she does have every right to present this issue to them in a way of her choosing and at a time she feels is right...which I think is all she's asking for here...advice about how to do that. Just like with sex, war, prejudice and Santa Claus...mybe she wants to do it right and herself, rather than have misconceptions or fears introduced to them. Ever think of that? She's not looking for a good way to introduce prejudice on this subject into ther children. She never said she wanted to fire her nanny. In fact, she likes her nanny and is trying to find the best way to work this out for all concerned, taking into account that her husband may have different ideas than her. "Screaming" at her is not helpful, appropriate, or productive.
Maybe people wouldn't feel so inclined to feel that they have to mention having gay friends if they did feel so immediately put on the defensive as potential "gay bashers" any time they want to offer anything other than the very narrow standard PC party line opinion on the subject. Ever think of that?
Mom,
I urge you to have more faith in God - the God who makes gay babies - than in the Bible.
We can see God in every thing around us, every day. Sunsets, thunderstorms, birds taking flight, kittens n puppies, and bats n naked molerats, - an earthworm cut in half can miraculously become 2 individual beings - and babies - gay and straight - that is the stuff that is the work of God. The Bible is the work of man.
Where will you put your faith?
Well, well, well
It's really amazing how interpretations can sometimes get 'lost in translation'
Take for example the comment made by 'fox in the socks' about our president elect regarding Rick Warren.
What some people call discrimination is simply Christian principle to others.
Is it Rick Warren's intention to be discriminative towards gays? I highly doubt that; what he's upholding is christian principle.
The fact is that most Christians struggle with what to do with the 'gay issue' as MOM expressed (didn't read all of it yet).
On the one hand, they know that the Bible says the practice is wrong, but on the other hand they know they need to love everybody.
The phobia is almost universal in the christian community, yet the interpretations of what is morally sound is diverse.
Many people believe (as was stated in this forum) that people are born gay; most christians will disagree with that, again as mom said that how could God make somebody that way etc.
Well, it has taken some time for me to understand this, and a little spiritual maturity to figure it out somewhat.
If you are a christian it may be easier to follow my train of thought.
We are all born in sin, and with that comes sinful tendencies, one may admit that what is a struggle for one person may not be one for them.
For some people food is their nemesis, as all Christians know that greed is a sin, and is just as bad as the practice of homosexuality, as is pride and a plethora of other things.
The person who is a glutton struggles to be temperate in eating; the person who is proud struggles to be humble.
Now those are Biblical examples above but look at people who are schizophrenic, who have voices telling them to kill people. One could say they were born with that tendency, but it doesn't matter, whether you're born with it, or you develop it, it is still wrong. Fortunately society agrees with this, otherwise there would be a lot of dead bodies lying around.
What of a kleptomaniac? some people have this struggle that they have to fight, because they have a tendency towards doing it.
Again this is frowned upon in society, and reasonably so.
Now, the 'gay issue' is a little different yet the same.
You can be born with a tendency towards it, and it would be a struggle to keep it under control.
You may say well this does not destroy society as the others do, but Christians believe it destroys the moral fiber of society.
Whether this is true or not is again personal and interpreted as such.
Frankly, we are all equal despite our varied shortcomings, and accepting a gay person does not mean that you condone their lifestyle, similarly saying that you are not comfortable with them in your employ doesn't mean you love them any less, it just means that you have not yet become the christian you strive to be (if you're a christian).
God gives us free choice, and with that comes good news and bad news; the good news is that God gives us free will to do as we choose, the bad news is there are consequencies to every action, so pretty much do what you will but be prepared to live with the consequencies.
The most important thing to understand is that true christians love everybody, and though it may be difficult to fraternize with gays (some have a real struggle) it is the Christlike thing to do.
By the way, being gay is not synonymous to being black or Jewish.
You are either black or a Jew, and there's absolutely nothing you can do to change that.
Being black is not considered sinful in the Bible neither is being Jewish.
You can however stop being gay, muslim r christian which many have done.
What happened with blacks and Jews in history was wrong and inhumane, because they are people that were discriminated against based on something that cannot be changed.
You can however change the lifestyle of a Muslim, gay, or Christian, as many have done in the past.
While it is true that being gay is largely innate, there is something such as learned behavior. Kids copy things and if you're a christian i could see how you could become uncomfortable with that. This is a pickle I personally would not want to be in, but I would never ever fire anybody because they happen to be gay. That is just plain wrong.
I am aware that my view may be unpopular, but I must say I do not write for popularity, I write merely to give my point of view and hopefully clarify things along the way. even though at this hour I wonder how clear I really have been
Em, we disagree on some of these points...but I want to comment on only one.
Maybe you didn't get what i was saying, or maybe I misunderstood your point...but I the way you paraphrased ne of my points gives the opposite impression of what I meant. (In other words, I'm not trying to fight with you.)
But this part: "as mom said that how could God make somebody that way etc." really made me cringe.
(Maybe I just misinterpreted and am overly sensitive because of the volatile nature of this subject?)
Oh, one more thing...if you were referring to my comments in explaining the difference between blacks and muslims and gay, etc....I was not trying to equate them as the same TYPES of groups...well, not in any other way than that they have vocal minorities that people sometimes think are speaking for the entire population. No big deal either...but I'd like to avoid 300 additional comments on the thread about unfairly comparing one group to another if possible.
Dear Em,
I just wanted to respond to your comment since you referred to something I said.
Em said, "It's really amazing how interpretations can sometimes get 'lost in translation.' Take for example the comment made by 'fox in the socks' about our president elect regarding Rick Warren.
What some people call discrimination is simply Christian principle to others.
Is it Rick Warren's intention to be discriminative towards gays? I highly doubt that; what he's upholding is christian principle."
I just wanted to clarify something about my viewpoint. What I find objectionable about Obama's choice of who should swear him in at his inauguration is that, according to what I read, the man he chose allows gays to attend his church services but does not allow them to be members of his church. It does seem quite discriminatory to disallow some people from being members of his church. While I do not necessarily think that this man intends to discriminate, or sees himself as doing so, by disallowing some people to be members, he is in fact discriminating by "upholding his Christian principles," as you put it.
The thing that I found shameful is that the next president of the United States has no qualms about selecting this person as an exemplary choice, that someone who disallows a certain group from being members at his own church is a model, or an ideal, according to our next president.
Anyway, there you have my two cents.
Wouldn't life be so much better if we had less opinions about other peoples lifestyles?
As long as you don't hurt me "or thy neighbour" you can be as weird as you like, dress as you like, pierce everything you want, worship a tree for all I care.
At the end of the day, basic human compasion, kindness and good morality is taught in every religion. I yearn for the day we could all coexist in a peaceful way. I know it won't ever happen in my life time but I can do the best to teach my children the same and if they want to apply that to a religion when they are older- great. If not great too.
Religious books are there to guide us, if you are incapable of living a life without one and without going nuts and killing someone then you might be one of those human "samples" who don't know how to grow with evolution. That's my opinion. Sadly there are many people who NEED their books to be normal and function. Who need to be: "this is the right way". Don't get me wrong, I admire believers and holy books. They are a great foundation and I believe growing up with that has taught me to be a good human being, at least according to my standards.
Jewish people, christians, blacks and gays have never hurt me. Let's love them all and don't judge!
Happy Hanukkah and happy holidays.
PS. I have to say how proud I am of all the people on here who are clearly demonstrating such respect for the gay community. It makes me so happy to see that.
faithful one said something key: the universe is God, the bible is man. 'Man' being the operative word. Later patriarchs with vested interests and their own agendas trying to systematize an egalitarian and lovely tradition for their own ends.
So Em is one of those who advocates gay people being 100% celibate their entire lives because SHE thinks it's the "moral" thing to do. Just eww.
Mom, I did not mean to imply in my second comment that being Christian is a bad thing or that I think all Chrsitians are represented by some of the vocal minority axxholes that DO give Christianity a bad name. It's a religion, and beliefe in a God or Gods should NOT be a negative thing, though it sometimes becomes one when certain groups do atrocious things and declare that they are acting on behalf of THEIR notion of a deity.
I just wanted to echo Janet English and say that I'm really impressed by all of the tolerance I see on the issue of being gay.
I know I shouldn't be surprised in this day and age, but it seems it really hasn't been that long that most people have come to accept that being gay isn't a choice.
This just in:
All Christians are sinners- what a shocker.
Are we looking for perfection in mere mortal souls? Shame on you!
And what of morality? Hmm, it's now a bad thing? Interesting.
I believe it's the Bible that indicates what is moral and what isn't, not Em, but I'll have to check again
Um, yes, it's the Bible and it does say the practice of homosexuality is immoral, what do you know.
The great thing is that God loves every sinner, but He calls each of us (not just gays) to repentance.
Plain and simple, and you won't get it any other way from me.
I understand non-Christians won't see it that way, and that is their/your prerogative, but the one thing I will not do is sugarcoat the truth, now let's move on, shall we?
Move on? You're welcome to try. Just like the supporters of Prop 8 thought they could vote away the rights of a section of the population and just tell everyone to "move on" and the deal would be done. They're still trying, too.
Well don't move on, who cares? This is a subject I clearly know about and will be more than happy to refute your false claims anytime, so keep clicking away.
ahh..pretty sure prop 8 and the huge amount of support it got came across loud and clear.
Em, ROFLMAO! You "know" about your own opinion. Congratulations. If you were trying to say you "know" about the bible, then you apparently DON'T know that it was written by mere humans, who spoke many different languages and didn't write much down, so it is nothing more than a very old game of telephone based on the word of a handful of people who for all we know could have accidentally gotten hold of the wrong sort of mushrooms. It's brainless bible thumping homophobes like you who give Christians a bad image as much as zealots like Osama Bin Laden who give Muslims a bad image. I realize you may still be too confused to be able to understand much of this, but it's worth a try, seeing as how people like you believe that your OPINIONS should dictate the LIVES of other humans.
I'm just curious what you'd do if you reached the age of puberty and realized you had zero intimate attraction to anyone but those of your own gender. Stay celibate, I guess, but at least we'd have the benefit of knowing you wouldn't reproduce.
Sad thing, it's still getting attention from the California Supreme Court. I'm sure you will have moved on by the time they render their decision on its constitutionality.
Calimom, you are an idiot plain and simple.
An ingrate like you can't possibly understand scripture, though there is hope for you as Jesus came and died to save all.
I'm not even sure this is worth addressing, because what does one say to an ingrate, hmmm, it's almost like the fool who says there is no God, because to assume that God has no control over inspired writing is to question God's omnipotence.
I wonder who you got your little opinion about the Bible from. It sounds like something you heard, and decided it sounded plausible, and have adapted it as your own.
You know what it sounds like to me? mumbo jumbo, seriously just a nonsensical string of words, that you probably use when talking to your equally idiotic friends.
You know some people actually say they don't believe in God, yet they have never read the Word; how can one know they don't believe or what they believe until they actually read,
What can I say to you really, it is sad that you don't know Christ, and with your attitude probably never will, because I can tell you that reading the Bible with an attitude to learn with the guidance of the Holy Spirit changes you in ways I cannot begin to describe to you.
...and no, that does not mean perfection as only Christ is perfect, but you certainly would not be talking about Christ as if He were a mere man.
'brainless Bible thumping' classic, lol. In your dreams.
For the record, no one gives Christianity a bad name. Christianity stands on its own and will stand no matter what any christian does. It is an interesting excuse irresponsible people use to explain the reason they can't possibly be Christians, after all, if all you know are wicked Christians, then by golly you may become one too. I mean, does that sound intelligent to you, oh right, I forgot it's not about intelligence it's really about spiritual awareness versus spiritual blindness, and you are as blind as a bat my dear, and if you keep this up, it will be impossible for you to learn, but not to worry, there is a special place prepared for those like you who deny Christ.
Here is the good news about Christians, they understand they are a work in progress, but people like you feel like you are above God, well carry on my friend with your gallivanting, and frolicking, since you have no God.
Oh, and yes I'd still be celibate if I had that problem. It's not that hard, it's called having a moral compass.
By the way, it matters little what the supreme court decides
Em, your post reeks of irrationality. You're free to have your own religious views. When it comes to discussing things with other people, and I mean things in general on all sorts of topics and not just religion, you need to recognize that your religious beliefs are pure irrationality. These kinds of claims have no basis in verifiable fact. Therefore they are of the realm of irrationality. Therefore they don't make for a legitimate part of public discourse.
And based on your own religious beliefs, don't you think you should be a bit nicer to calimom and anyone else?
OK ladies,
For the record I believe the bible is the inspired word of God.
But I see a bigger issue brewing here: Whateve our individual beliefs on the subject...having a discussion about God and Christianity which involves name calling and accusations does nobody any good...particularly when the name calling comes from the person who is the Christian who is trying to help somebody else understand what is good about Christ.
I thought the same thing earlier in this thread pertaining to people in support of gay people. I saw some people here who I thought were just trying to learn and understand a little bit more about the whole topic...but the people who could have been the best teachers were acting so hateful that it shut down the possibility of anybdy actually wanting to learn anything from them.
Think about it ladies. The old saying "You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" applies pretty much across the board. So, if you have something you want to get across to people, your best chance to even have them listen to your point of view (whether they come to agree with you in the end or not) is to treat them like thinking people and have a respectful discussion. Name calling pretty much ends any possibility for any respectful, and therefore productive, discussion to occur...and it has the serious potential to make the entire group you represent look like a band of ignorant asses in the eyes of the person you have just slammed in their name.
Gay it up.
I think you mean "Julie Newmar".
And Mom, thank you for a really exceptional post.
Em, I had to skip most of your blather but got the high points of wat you were attempting to say. I never said there wasn't a God. I said the bible was written by PEOPLE. Not by God. If you have never realized this simple fact, then you are even more ignorant than you've made yourself sound so far on this board, which is scary considering you are left in charge of actual living, breathing children. But if it makes you feel you've proven your point, call me an idiot and an ingrate some more, and thern order me to mind my own business and shut up. It just makes you look stupider and angrier, and some will use you as an example of why Christianity, or all religions for that matter, are a bunch of bullchit.
And I pity poor Christ, dying to save something like you that he actually must have thought was worth "saving". No wonder you're so smug and clueless, LOL! But I wonder if he came to realize his mistake.
Oooh, big ouch, cali mom!
As expected Calimom, you made no sense, what is funny is that you said you got the high points of my 'blather' without actually reading everything, and perhaps that's your problem.
If you tried reading an entire post you might be able to make more sense. Otherwise, I suggest you leave the criticizing to people who actually are reading.
Do we need college lessons... I'm afraid discussing Christianity is not like just ANY other argument. sorry,
You may think it's irrational, but that does not make it a fact does it? I challenge any Christian to disagree with me, and I said Christian, because unfortunately a carnal mind cannot interpret spiritual things.
If you are looking for someone to compromise or make nice about this, you are looking in the wrong direction.
And Mom, you may feel like an 'ignorant ass', but I certainly do not. Fortunately you don't have to agree with anything I say, nor my way of saying it.
I also have to add that I do not need a referee, to guide me in the art of a discussion.
I didn't tell anybody that i was trying to win Calimom anywhere; I was simply telling it like it is in the Bible, and if anybody wants to know more they can go to the source, or open up their ears and listen, or in this case their eyes and read, afterall it's their salvation, not mine. I leave the trying to win others who are open to learning.
You may think that everybody has to act like you, or have your personality, (real or imagined) to call themselves Christians, but I have news for you; Christians come in varying styles.
One does not have to be saccharin to win people over, nor to be called a Christian.
I am a Christian plain and simple, and you know what makes me so? not my personality, but the fact that I have accepted Jesus Christ as my personal savior, and I believe Him and His word, and that I walk by faith and not by sight.
It is my experience that people who try to be 'everybody's friend, are usually the biggest hypocrites.
I'm sorry, but I don't know how to do that. I know how to stand- that's it.
I don't tell people what I think they want to hear, nor temper the truth in any way.
I wonder what method works best to get people thinking...a carefully thought out answer about what one believes that does not ruffle any feathers, or an answer that speaks the truth and gets people thinking?
It is true, that 'if at all possible we should live peaceably with all men' , but sometimes it is just not possible' that being said, I'm not angry, I was just stating a fact, and the descriptive words that I used described the person I was talking about.
If my memory serves me right, there are many personalities in the BIble:
Peter was impetuous and often did things without thinking
Paul was abrasive and had issues with one of the men he was preaching the gospel with, and was known for a sharp tongue
Jesus our only true example was meek and mild, yet did throw the Pharisees out of the temple, He also said if someone does not believe in God they are 'fools'.
Jesus was rarely found among the Pharisees, because they refused to understand and thought they knew it all, when in fact they didn't.
I know my last statement leaves open the door for someone to say that I think I know...well then let a christian answer that.
True Christians tell it like it is. I believe that in the NT Jesus said that he came to pit mother against father, against sister against brother. So His words would cause a separation, because good and evil does nto mix does it?
I believe He also said that people who believe as you do are your sisters and brothers in Christ.
Serving Christ is not a lukewarm deal, it is a standing up for the truth even 'if the heavens fall'.
Now Calimom, you may think it is a waste of time for Jesus to die for me, but thank God it is not up to you, plus it's a done deal. I'm a sinner who is saved by grace, but understand your ignorance in speaking, because when one does not know the truth they do sound like you do- ignorant.
Yes Calimom, the Bible was written by men- duh! These men were not writing on their own behalf, They were writing as led and inspired by the Holy Spirit, so it makes them instruments rather than authors. God is the only true author in the Bible.
You have, like I mentioned tried to discredit God, this must make you not know Him or not believe that He exists, if you think that He can't control what gets into the Bible.
There are several other books written that did not make it into the 66 books that we know as the Bible, you ask the Catholics.
We may not be living under Theocracy today, but God still rules Supreme.
Must I once again remind you that people cannot make Christianity 'look bad'.
Every tub has to sit on its own bottom come judgment day, so if your excuse for rejecting Him is going to be that Em did not act like the brand of Christian you like, then I'm afraid you're in for a 'hot' night.
Try being a Christian in spite of, what's the problem, you are not strong enough to stand on your own?
I suggest you grow a backbone before it's too late.
Em, it's funny how you state right off the bat that you are STILL confused and can't follow this thread or understand anything I've said, then you go on to accuse me of not paying enough attention, and THEN get my post confused with another, where someone said you sounded irrational. I agree with that but you're confused again. I know it's hard for you when your root problem is stupidity, but it gets really silly when the first thing you ever have to say for yourself is that you are confused again.
I don't need you to make nice or comprommise. Why would you think that? Just as YOU are clearly more obsessed than I am with your other habits, I don't give a poop if you want to play Good Christian when it suits you and screw it when it doesn't. Again, it just makes you look stupid and ignorant, but if you get off on that sort of thing, let your freak flag fly (higher). But you aren't managing to prove ANY of the points you keep trying to make, (as Mom was politely attempting to help you understand) and I'd think you might get tired and put down your shovel while you can still manage to climb out of your hole. As for my "backbone", I have a strong enough one that I don't need to suck my thumb and squint at my translation of words possib;y written by some schizos who swore they were hearing voices to tell me what to think and do from moment to moment. If you need that crutch, you're allowed to use it, and amusingly enough, you are even allowed to feel proud about needing to use it. So good for you, you need to read your little book of fairy tales to feel safe and superior. I'm not impressed by you in any way. Just keep your OPINIONS out of other people's LIVES, and you will be free as a cockroach, to amuse yourself with your own thoughts whenever you please.
Gee Em,
I don't recall directing any of my comments specifically at you...but thanks for the nod anyway.
I supppose we do disagree somewhat on what our purposes are as Christians. Sure, I agree that it is important that we each work out our own salvation first...but then I think it is only right to look beyond our own selves and see if we might somehow bring something positive to the rest of the world as well. Christianity is definitely not meant to be an exclusive, or an "all about me" club. But who wants to join any club where the members seem smug, superior and sanctimonious anyway? I like to be with people who like me as I am...not people who judge me and think I will not be as good as they are until I come to think just like they do. So "telling it like it is" in this instance seems sort of unkind and judgmental...and potentially offputting. Just my opinion. But think about it for a bit. Maybe you will agree and maybe you won't. That's OK.
I'm fairly shy...and I also do not go for randomly preaching to people. (I also find that offputting, unless somebody has specificaly expresed an interest in my beliefs. Nobody likes to be accosted with somebody else's religion.) But I do hope that my being kind to people will be an example in some way and that they may see that I have a certain peace or happiness and maybe ask me about it...or not ask me about it but attribute it to my being a Christian and just file that away in their brains for a time when they are searching for something more.
It's funny because I almost never mention my religion in non religious settings (see above). I received an award a few years back at karate...and they had asked people to submit personal comments and observations about the person they voted for. Knock me over with a feather when multiple comments mentioned my being a Christian woman. First I wondered how they even knew. Then I was suddenly overcome with the realization that somehow people knew...and that they had been regarding me with that eye...and I realized that my actions, good and bad, reflected what those people saw as a Christian woman. We have a responsibility even when we don't even know it! Does that make sense?
Damn Em, what are you stalking cali mom in 3 different threads now?
I won't respond to Calimom, because again, she made little sense.
But 'MOM' one does not need to call one's name to make an inference about them.
I thought everyone knew that.
I guess you missed my many points, so it's fair to say you won't understand anything else I say, but I must say I didn't expect you to agree, oh no, I've gotten your 'number'. I know your type.
We are both different kinds of christians, and I'm sure you think your smugness qualifies you more than me.
Think what you wish.
You're shy, and so humble a great christian, yet you found the time to tell me about your award.
Well while we are on the subject let me tell you about mine. I have several. I didn't get them because I was a people pleaser.
I read time and again on these posts how shy you are, and how humble, yet you have a story to tell every time, and those stories somehow put you in a great light, humility my butt.
...and surprise, surprise, I'm also a kind person, whether this blog reflects that or not. I haven't seen you in your environment so I have no idea the kind of person you are. I could come off as sweet and genteel on this blog if I wanted to.
You mentioned people seeing you as a Christian by your actions, I suppose it was the 'shyness' at work, well people see me as a christian by the life I live. actions speak louder than words.
I am not impressed with your brand of christianity as you probably won't be with mine, but it doesn't really matter. It is God who judges the heart.
You seem proud of the fact that you don't talk about releigon in non religious settings, and it shows the kind of person you are.
What, afraid to stand of for God for fear of ruffling feathers are we?
Well now, God must be downright pleased as punch with you, because that's exactly what He's looking for right? Someone who looks out for themselves.
Well I'll tell you the kind of Christian I am; one that will stand of for God and Godly principles no matter the cost. Apparently you missed all those pharaphrased texts I mentioned earlier.
God calls us to love each other, no doubt, but he doesnt call us to be lackeys, nor to follow the traditions of men.
I read your comment about the whole gay issue and I watched you backstep to explain yourself when someone was disappointed in your post.
I know your type only too well, always the diplomat; well then, do it your way. Keep God out of your life until you can conveniently bring Him up.
It is almost pointless to argue with Calimom, because she is a fool. The Bible said so. I can understand her not understanding me, but the least one could expect of a Christian is to have some kind of understanding, but sadly, you are more about pleasing the crowd.
I bet if they had a situation where all those in support of a gay lifestyle and those not in favor, to stand on opposite sides, that you wouldn't know what to do, or if you stood on the opposing side, you would no doubt be hiding, hoping no one sees you. lol
By the way, Christianity is not a social club of some sort. I don't care how many snoots are in the church it would not stop me from going.
There are too many churches to have that as an excuse.
Everybody has an opportunity to know Christ if they choose.
If you want to argue with me, then why don't you pick apart the texts that I talked about, all you can harp on is that I am not being 'nice'. I don't remember a command to be 'nice' I do remember one to love my neighbor as myself. The the things that I dish out to others is the same I expect in return. I hate hypocrisy, which by the way , is one of the reasons people use to not go to church, so I doubt that they'd like you MOm if they only could see what you really thought.
Jesus stood up to the Pharisees, when questioned about the mission He was on. When being questioned during His trial, he ignored most questions (as I'm ignoring calimom on this one) and He answered the most important questions that defined who the Father was, that's right He never backed away from talking about God even when death was imminent, so my dear Mom, I am not at all impressed with you and your so called Christianity, and your pretend efforts at humility and peace.
This life is not about peace, it is about stirring up people to investigate about God.
But be happy (as I'm sure you are) on the popular side. I don't care to be on the popular side, I only care to be on the right side.
Now be the people pleaser that you are and see, that there is no point to arguing with me. Set your own example miss, you are not dealing with kids here.
If you want everyone to be quiet then you have to first be quiet.
Show your christian stance by simply shutting your own mouth, the only one you have control over.
That's right, sometimes the nicest thing you can do is just keep it closed.
Now, sshh!
Okay, I've kept my mouth shut for as long as I can stand it and NO em, I won't be quiet, because the last thing in the world YOU know how to do is to shut YOUR mouth.
You've been nothing but obnoxious for 3 days now, and if you ask me, I'd much rather listen to a "people pleaser" like mom, than an asshole like you.
I find you cruel and nasty and I seriously doubt that you are even a Christian!
You so crazy
I thought she was stalking me.
Everywhere I turn up there she goes.
Now if you really want to know who is stalking whom, you reread those posts.
She's a nut, and now I know she's a sad nut, lugging 300 pounds around.
Take a look at this particular blog; Calimom, responded to Op earlier on, later on I responded to OP, and then she basically responded to me in her opening statement.
quote from calimom
So Em is one of those who advocates gay people being 100% celibate their entire lives because SHE thinks it's the "moral" thing to do. Just eww.'
Em responded
...I understand non-Christians won't see it that way, and that is their/your prerogative, but the one thing I will not do is sugarcoat the truth, now let's move on, shall we?
4:33 AM
From Calimom
Move on? You're welcome to try...
from Em
Well don't move on, who cares?...
From Calimom
Em, ROFLMAO! You "know" about your own opinion...
From Em
Calimom, you are an idiot plain and simple.
Calimom
Em, I had to skip most of your
blather
My last note below was I posted just after yours, but I was clearly writing before I saw your post
Em
I won't respond to Calimom, because again, she made little sense.
Now you tell me...who is stalking whom
So... she started it? Well, then I see that you are definitely trying to finish it. But I was speaking about the fact that you have arguments (discussions?) going on in three different threads, now including Mom and Chick. Are you truly this harsh in RL?
Em said (in all seriousness, apparently!)
"We are both different kinds of christians,"
Yes Em. Mom is an intelligent thinker, YOU are dumb as a stick. Mom is a patient, kind person who can carry on an interesting conversation, YOU are an a$$hole. Mom can make people think about her POV, YOU can only spew out insults without making any valid points. Mom exemplifies Christian values, you just lie and say you demonstrate them when we can't see you. And I forgot to mention your other favorite trick when you have lost your battle, which is to tell people to shut up. Do you imagine that you have some domain over posters here, and that they will follow your orders just because you are frustrated? And is this how you discipline the poor children you get hired to watch? Tell them to shut up when you are frustrated with them and cann't even understand what they are talking to you about?
You know what, em? I'm not saying cali mom is the nicest person in the world, although I do like most of her posts, but I have to agree with junk mail in that you went too far with Mom. Picking on her was going too far. I don't think I've ever seen her be mean to anyone on here and it's a good thing you don't care about popular opinion because I think you shot yourself down with that one.
Crazy, lol, actually I'm quite fun! Oh I can only hear the comments on that one,
anyway, what is the third blog? I just commented on the spoiled nanny, but i cant find the third, help! I really want to see if I am the one picking on her, so far, I am not the one.
Anyway, back to you crazy,I am a pretty straightforward person, but I guess it does come off harsh in print. I'm simply speaking my mind.
If you read several earlier blogs you will see.
I wouldn't say I have an argument going on with chick, as i probably responded to her twice or maybe 3 times, but she is not following me around.
As for mom the peacemaker, well enough said. sometimes making peace is about being quiet.
So go ahead and read exhibit 3 on the other thread I mentioned, and tell me.
Good grief, Em.
Why so incredibly angry?
And why do you think everybody is trying to fight with you?
And how can you accuse me of thinking anything other than what I have said I think? I can assure you that, based on your very clever description, you know not the first thing about me or my type. I hope you are not a forensic psychologist...heheheh!
You talk about me hiding somewhere when people are taking imaginary stances about gays before God, and then in the next breath say such hurtful, hateful things about overweight people? What kind of God appreciates that kind of hateful talk? THAT's what I'm talking about. You are going on and on about what a great Christian you are...and in the samwe post saying puprosely hateful things about people. Just don't mix the two is all I'm saying. If you want to be nasty to people, don't claim its because you are a Christian.
Call me any name you want because I choose to be nice to people. It doesn't bother me a bit. In my book it sure beats sending them to bed crying just because I'm PMSing and want to make somebody else feel as miserable as I do.
And that award I got...it was for displaying consistently good character and voted on by my peers...people for whom I have deep respect. I treasure it and it is on display in my family room. It's really pretty...a beautiful eagle with its wings spread. I have gotten numerous others as well, but I'll tell you about those later....perhaps when I can conveniently work them into some story about myself that makes me look really good ;)
Feel better soon.
PS It is completely wrong of you to say that the bible says rude things about people...like that calimom is a fool. It says no such thing. Please stop using it to back up you hateful insults...because it doesn't. You know what it does say? That people who know God have a greater responsibility to use His word wisely than those who don't. People don't have to believe just like you do to be valuable to God. And I'm quite sure, based on your angry hateful tone, that He has not appointed you judge and jury on His behalf.
You are trying my patience dear...but you will not goad me into a fight.
Good night.
Mom, I read a quarter if your post, but I've had it, so let me do, what you as the superior Christian wasn't able to do...
PS Em, you're completely off base about Cali mom. A while back (way before your time here) another poster saw her having coffee in the city and apparently she is quite the babe...pretty, stylish and, if I remember correctly, she has quite the perky ass.
(heheheh...anybody besides me remember that post?)
:)
I do, Mom!
Oh sorry, lol, as I was scrolling down I saw your PS.
Well now I know why I could not expect any better from you, you do not even know the Bible. I do, lol, ok, enough from me.
See you on a friendlier thread
LMAO!!! Even em couldn't do what she asked mom to do.
"Shhhh!"
Had to have that last word, huh!
Em, you are a trip, girl!
Mom, I do remember that post, and someone was joking about having met me. I don't even remember who it was or what the context was but I think it basically said I wore nice clothes and was a knockout :). I'm no supermodel (though I sometimes do art modeling), but I'm nowhere near 300 lbs either, and I focus on exercising regularly rather than obsessing about food of any kind. Everything in moderation, I say.
Cali,
heheheh. And speaking of the bible...how is that perky pet donkey of yours?
I hafta go now. I promised my hubby a ride on mine!
PS I may be a Chrstian...but I never claimed to be perfect...or said that I never have fun! Nighty night girls!
Em,
The bible doesn't actually say that homosexuality is evil. The often quoted passage in Leviticus is in response to a then common practise of soldiers raping the soldiers they defeated in battle.
And didn't Jesus befriend prositutes and sinners?
You know, FYI.
Mom, being uneducated on the words of the bible as I am, the donkey reference is going going straight over my head. Um, unless you just meant "ass", and then I would say YOWZA, you surprise me mom!! =:0 What the heck, happy new year!
Heehee!!
I have a rainbow tatoo on my left ass cheek. I'm a red nailpolish wearing, ballet flat donning, bible thumping lesbian.
Shhhhhhhhhh
Phuckin' A, Ann! Rock it, baby!
Hey Cali,
You must know more of the bible than you realize, because that's exactly what I meant! Hehehehe
But Cali, don't be too surprised at Mom. remember, I too own a neon orange thong!
I suspect my moniker and my age give a more matronly impression than is true...hehehehehe
Mom, heehee, I didn't know that! :)
Hey, Em, can you tell me where calimom is mentioned in the Bible?
You said, "It is almost pointless to argue with Calimom, because she is a fool. The Bible said so."
I would really like to know book, chapter and verse so I can look that up and have proof that the writers of the bible were not only inspired by go, but also knew calimom would exist eventually.
Thanks so very much!
inspired by "GOD"...not "go"!
sheesh!
Chick, she's back but of course she can't answer that. She claims she is ignoring us, hehe!
Nah-ah cali mom! Em said she was ignoring YOU! So, maybe she will answer Chick's question? lol
Actually,
Em said...
Um, excuse me, Old regular, I didn't say that I would not be back to post here. I was simply saying that I was finished with those two, and quite frankly I have scrolled over their posts.
I am one, so she is either ignoring Mom or Chick, along with me. Or so she claims, only time will tell...
LOL!! I missed that....
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