Where: Shorewood, WI Starbucks on the corner of Oakland and OliveTime: 3ish on Thursday, 3/13
Caregiver: 20's, brown hair, black fleece, brown Coach shoes, jeans, Coach key chain and tan leather wallet drives an older, 4 door black Nissan Altima or Maxima.
What happened: She left two kids, both in car seats with winter hats on, in the back seat of her car while she went in and got herself a coffee. I had my 2 charges with me but did not say anything because I didn't notice the kids until we both walked out.
35 comments:
Why didn't you take down the license plate numner?!
I live near a Dunkin Donuts and cannot tell you how many times I see this day after day. Sometimes, the child is in the car and the mom is sitting in the DD eating! I have often called the police and waited. Usually the police verbally give it to the mom who did it but that's about all they can do. My favorite is when they do this AND leave the car running!
And this is why I love that there's a drive through starbucks less than a mile from where I work...
I always wondered what was acceptable when this type of situation arises. I couldn't imagine leaving a child small enough to be in a carseat, in the car alone...but when is it ok to leave a kid in the car when you say, run into the post office or like this girl did, run to get coffee? I have memories of waiting in the car for my mother when she ran into a store quickly...I highly doubt my mother was being at ALL negligent though (she was the best mom ever :-))....so I guess it's a matter of age? Or maybe times are different now?
Please pardon my ignorance regarding this...
And don't worry, I have never left my charge in the car alone :-)She's a little thing.
I'd say they are old enough to stay in the car alone when they are old enough to drive. And yes, times have changed. Maye we just hear more now days about car jackings, kidnappings etc.
^^^^maybe!
And I have to say it, sorry. How do you know it isn't the mom?
When they're old enough to drive? That's a bit extreme...
do you leave your kids alone at home when they're ready to own their own house?
What about when your child is old enough to start going places on her own (malls, movies etc)?
Times definitely have changed (or, like you said maybe we're just more aware of it due to our fear mongering media), but you gotta give your kids a little independence or they're going to end up nutty as hell.
At a previous position, my charges were 8 and 3, and I know their parents would let them wait in the car (together -- never the 3-year-old on his own) while they ran into get coffee or drop of mail, etc. I'm sure they would have been fine with me doing it as well, but I could never do it even though the 8-year-old begged. It's just too big of a risk.
I definitely remember doing the same thing as a child, and having it be very common. But times have changed and I just couldn't live with myself if something were to happen because I couldn't be bothered to bring them into the post office with me. My policy: if it's THAT big of an inconvenience to do it with kids, the errand/coffee can wait.
So what! I am sure she locked the car as I have seen many parents do when they run in for a brief moment. I am assuming she could see them out the window, right? There is no sense in pulling the kids out for a couple minutes, only to put them back in the car again. This happens all the time in Colorado and no one reports people as if they were neglecting their child.
it is illegal in some states
it is illegal in some states
So I just did a little tiny bit of research regarding this...in a few states it IS in fact illegal to leave your child in a parked car (also an idling car in certain jurisdictions) if they are under 6-8 years old (again, depending on the state). In one article, it stated that it's illegal to leave your child in a parked car for more than 2 hours if they are under 6.
Why would anyone leave their child in a car alone for more 2 hours? minutes? anyway, I disgress...
Aside from the law, it's pretty apparent that this is a personal decision. Some people are comfortable doing it, some aren't.
While you'd think the law was passed to protect kids from kidnappers, I got the impression that it was more about climate within the car..heat and cold and the child's safety pertaining to that.
It's never a good idea.
I once left my infant son in the car for literally less than a minute to run into a mail boxes store to get mail out of a PO Box. The door to the store was propped open, I was no more than 50 feet from my car ever and I could see the car the entire time. I mentioned it to my husband and he blew his stack. I never did it again.
A friend had the police show up at a Blockbuster store and find her becauise she left her infant in the car and somebody called the police. My friend was offended at the intrusion into her personal decisions, but all I could think was that the child was alone in there long enough for somebody to spot him, find a pay phone and call the police (this was in the days before cell phones were common...or smaller than bricks), have the police drive over and inspect the car and come into the store to question everybody inside as to who was responsible for the baby...all of this without her even noticing all of the commotion taking place around her car. I thought that was beyond irresponsible. She didn't even get a ticket, despite the fact that she let the officer know she thought it was ridiculous that they were bothering her.
My sister and I used to sit in the car while my mom did an entire grocery shop for the week, or go into the mall. Times have definitely changed.
And there is the weather issue too. Here in Texas we have several children die each summer from being left in hot cars. Just don't do it.
I would say that when a child is old enough to not need a carseat, old enough to walk and talk without stumbling, and old enough to know where you are and about how long you'll be, they can be left alone. But never in a running car. And always with the doors locked. And for god's sake, why would anyone leave them alone for two hours?? I wouldn't leave them for more than MAYBE ten minutes, depending on age.
really, because at the San Clemente campground a few years back a woman left her child in a car (not running), and while she was not looking, he pulled the emergency brake and the car rolled down a hill, hit a post and decapitated a small girl, right in front of her helpless family. If the car, by some mercy, had missed the post, it would have proceeded off a very steep cliff and the child inside would be dead instead.
My sister once pulled the emergency brake while waiting alone in the car at the mall and rolled into another vehicle.
Sometimes children play with the automatic windows and strangle themselves in them.
There are better places for kids to hang out than in the car. Plus, they do get a kick out of doing errands when they are small if you take the time to include them. I know it takes longer, but you can have a lot of fun with your kids on these little "nothing" outings if you make a game of it. I still always miss mine a little when I am getting apples and there is nobody small there to get a huge kick out of counting them and putting them in the bag ;)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23594474/
Parents who leave their kids in the car are the definition of LAZY.
Wow. I read the story. While I don't advocate leaving kids in cars at all, I would not have considered what this particular mom did bad at all. She was outside, the child was outside, the car was within her sight at all times. It seems no different to me than letting your child wander 30 feet away at the playground...as long as they are watched at all times. In fact I believe the child was probably safer in the car in this instance because the ground can get slippery in sleet and maybe the mom could have sliped and dropped her.
I think this is aggrivating because when law enforcement decides to finally take action and they pick out such a silly case in which to set an example it really causes so much legitimate debate. If they had chosen to arrest a mom who actually went inside to shop (which people actually do)there would be no debate as to her negligence and maybe it would get people seriously thinking about this as a legitimate problem.
Makes me wonder if it was a passive agressive move by the officers who are irritated at having to get such calls? This really makes no logical sense.
Op here-
Sorry I didn't get the license number, I had two kids with me and Starbucks in on a busy street. I know it is the nanny, I have seen her around the neighborhood before. It pisses me off that some of you don't think this is wrong. I take my 2 charges, 3 yo and 8 mo, out of the car EVERY TIME, even when it is a huge pain in the ass for me. What if something bad would have happened? Then what would you say? That is a risk, I am not willing to take. And no, she could not see her car from the register, there is a wall completely blocking the view.
On a very cold Christmas eve (snowing, 20 degrees) I was shopping and noticed a baby, strapped in a carseat in the car parked in front of me. He was in some kind of furry snowsuit. I was irritated at first. I waited and visually scanned the storefronts for her parent, no one.
I waited a few minutes (5-10) and in that time my car had gotten very cold. I sent my friend into the closest stores and had them page for the parent. No one came.
I started to freak out, 20 minutes had passed, the baby was sleeping? Not moving anyway. I called the police, they called the mall security. 25 minutes passed in total and just before the police arrived a woman came out of one of the stores we had paged in, and walked up to the car. I confronted her. She was clueless and insisted she was only in the store for a minute and could see the car the whole time.
She took off in a huff and I gave her plate # to the cops.
I do not think kids should be left in the car period. If they are small enough they could be kidnapped and older can be coaxed to or just might decide to unlock the door and get out. In addition in the summer/winter it's just plain dangerous.
OP, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was commenting on the story in the link somebody provide a few posts up.
IT IS NEVER NEVER NEVER OK TO LEAVE A CHILD UNDER THE AGE OF 10-12 IN THE CARE ALONE. There are just too many things that can happen in this day and time. Is is really worth the risk to do something as unecessary as get a cup of coffee or a video?!! A child is a huge responsibility - don't put them at risk. I watched a child being kidnapped in the process of a carjacking because the mother left the car running and ran into a sandwich shop to get a takeout sandwich!! Ask her if it was really worth that risk to her child - all for a sandwich?? The man dragged her several blocks down the street while she was trying to undo his car seat.
Well, sometimes, it is not about a cup of coffee or a video, more like getting a prescription for your sick and cranky child who balks at getting out of the car, while you are already late for school. It is clearly never a good idea, and in theory there is always a way around it, but theory does not always account for circumstances. However leaving a child in an idling car is nonsense, so is leaving an infant who can be lugged around in their car seat. Then it is a matter of evaluating the risk, how safe the area is, how mature the child is, how long and how far you will be away from the car. However, nannies cannot afford to take risks with their charges so that settles the question.
interesting comment, waycross48 ...
you WATCHED a kidnapping and a carjacking? you WATCHED a woman being dragged for several blocks while trying to unlatch her child from its car seat?
i agree that a child is a huge responsibility, and i would hope that if any crime ever befell myself or my charge, other responsible adults in the vicinity would do more than simply watch and then use my story as fodder for discussion.
Times definitely have changed. Growing up my parents used to take us out to dinner once a week. Not a kids place, but a nice dinner. We were expected to use good manners, keep our voices at a normal level and if we did not, the offender was taken out to the car to sit and wait in the parking lot with our seatbelts on until the family was done eating (we had to sit in our seats--we were not allowed to remove the seatbelt and move about the car to play or we would be in BIG trouble when we got home). Nowadays that would be considered abuse and my parents were great parents and definitely not abusive--they just expected us to behave and enjoy our dinner. Some of my fondest memories were of those family dinners out. And I do agree, you can NEVER leave a child alone in a car today, but it is ashame how the world has changed. I used to have so much fun playing with the neighborhood kids in my yard and run back and forth between my neighbors' yards and I would never consider letting my own kids in the yard unsupervised either.
Times have definitely changed...the world isn't more dangerous, the kids are more immature. When I was 6, my parents could leave me in a car for 10 minutes if they had to run in the store (in fact I would request it sometimes so i didn't have to get out of the car!) and I was mature enough to sit in my seat, keep the doors locked, and read a book/play a game/whatever. These days kids are so coddled and sheltered that at the age of 6 they have the maturity of a 3 year old. So no I wouldn't leave any charges in the car. But I think parents are capable of determining their own children's maturity and can make that decision. I definitely don't see this as wrong if its the parents decision.
So the parent's maturity is never to be questioned?
23 years ago, in a basically zero-crime area, mid-day, I left my eight-month or so old daughter in her car seat while I paid for the gas I'd just put in the car. (No way to swipe a card; you had to walk into the office to pay.) She was securely strapped in the back seat, and all the doors were locked. I could see her the whole time, and did keep my eye on the car except for the couple of seconds it took to hand over the cash and get my change.
When I got back to the car, a woman in another vehicle cruised past as I opened my door. "You shouldn't leave your baby in the car," she said. "Someone might take it." For about two minutes, I thought she was nuts, but then I realized that this woman had waited for me to come out (the car had been there when I went into the office), and she had clearly had a strong interest in that baby.
Maybe this woman was just trying to be helpful; maybe she was out looking for a baby. Who knows? But I never felt the same way about leaving the baby in the car again -- even when she was too young to get out of the car seat, and was locked up, and I was keeping a close eye on her from only a few feet away.
10:16, exactly..the kids aren't "mature" enough because everyone has become so damn neurotic...
you hit the nail on the head.
I am extremely cautious even COMMENTING on this, considering I do not have kids of my own...I do however have a lot of childcare experience...and I know know know know that a gazillion years of experience with other people's children isn't worth a damn when judging your actions with your own child, but hear me out...I know I sound like an insane conspiracy theorist (and I'm actually the opposite, believe it or not) but I DO believe that society is always being conditioned by our surroundings (i.e. the media/government) to keep us IN CONSTANT FEAR...and the children being raised now, are being raised within that fear..I know it's all relative and you can argue that every generation deals with something new (in order to adapt to change, which is happening at such a fast pace, in terms of technological advances and specifically globalization...faster than our society can really keep up with in my opinion), but we are really controlled, as a whole, by fear tactics. We're not consciously aware of it, for the most part, but I really believe it to be true. That being said, it's easy to see why children aren't "mature" enough to be left alone..why children are constantly coddled and sheltered until it's borderline absurd...a lot of it is post 9/11...a lot of it, like I mentioned, is the fast paced globalization we're experiencing and our inablity to adapt (which is completely understandable)...set definitions and standards are altered DAILY...
I'm only 26 years old and the changes in child rearing between then and now are immense...even when I started in childcare in 1996...big difference...and it's been over a very short period of time...
And I have watched, first hand as an observer, these changes take place...
Fast paced world...leaves people very separated in ideas regarding right and wrong...the "OLD SCHOOL" frame of mind vs. the new school, are so close together now, that we're often right on the crux.
My point is, what may have been considered normal and safe even just 10 years ago, is now frowned upon by many because of the bad news we're fed everyday, and our means to get this news with a click of a button.
It's a catch 22...it's great to be aware and inquisitive, but when does it become too much?
While I agree that the fear of kidnappings and stranger abductions is probably a bit overblown, there are many other crimes and disasters happening that could harm a child left alone in a car. Carjacking, stray bullets from unrelated crimes, drunk drivers sideswiping parked cars, an earthquake where you could possibly protect your baby if you were near enough to do so, who knows what? Why take the chance?? I don't think it's paranoia or fear factor to be aware of fluke disasters and try to avoid putting your child in their path.
Yes, it's a hell of a lot more time consuming and difficult to run quick errands like buy gas or pick up a prescription with a child in a carseat, but are you really so lazy you'd endanger your child just to avoid having to take them out of their carseat and put them back in?? Totally NOT advisable.
jerseyxjacquie,
You may be right to some extent, but things are what they are now. If kids are less mature (and I think they are, for all of the reasons you mention)then they NEED the extra looking after. It is also true that the world has become a lot scarier of a place, and that's not a government conspiracy--it's just a simple FACT.
Watch your kids closely!
When I saw this post, I was surprised that a nanny in an upper class suburb of Milwaukee was spotted as a "bad nanny". I used to live in Milwaukee, and Shorewood is a "North Shore" suburb with college students and middle and upper class families. I know this location, and Oakland Ave. is a very busy street. I have not been in this particular Starbucks before, yet I believe OP when she says that the nanny's car couldn't be seen from inside the store. I am surprised, that with the doctors, lawyers, UW Milwaukee professors, and other high paying professions in this area that a family would hire someone who lacks common sense, leaving children in a car while she went to get coffee. ANYTHING could've happened to these children, and what this nanny did was not only immature, but unprofessional. I remember being left in the car while my grandma, brother, or sister went into the store to get something. I also remember riding my bike to the store as a kid. Things have changed, and leaving a child in a car, no matter how long you are gone is never a good idea.
OP: You said you have seen this nanny in the neighborhood before. Any idea who she works for? If you know the family, maybe you should say something about what you saw the other day. If you see her again, take a picture (if possible) and show the parents.
BTW: It's Miss Dee everyone. I missed everyone on here, and wasn't sure if people were still mad about my comments last time I was here. I do apologize for what I said. I was kinda stressed out before last time I was on here, due to my housing situation.
Welcome back, Miss Dee!
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I remember being left alone in the car MANY times when I was younger. I also remember at age 4/5 being allowed to play outside up and down my street ... and having to be home by the time the street lights came on!
When I was 10/11 yrs. old, I would walk a mile to the skating rink. It closed at 10:00 every night except weekends, and I walked home! However, on the weekends, if I stayed until midnight, my mom or dad would pick me up. Nothing EVER happened to me, thank God.
Were my parents neglectful? No, but they certainly felt it was safe enough AT THE TIME for me to have that kind of freedom.
You sure as hell can't do any of that now!
No offense, but an "earth quake", "stray bullets" and "side swiping my drunk drivers" does sound a little paranoid. YES, anything can happen, BUT If we live in such extreme fear every time we leave the house we'll never truly enjoy life. I mean come on, you could slip and break your neck in the house, or a fire could start, or you could get electrocuted by an appliance, or accidentally cut yourself chopping vegetables...you get the point. Danger is every where, and being aware of your surroundings (no matter where you are) is always a good thing, but paranoia and extreme fear is truly overwhelming and yes, a sign of a society attempting in little ways to control you.
I'm all for keeping our children safe, but statistically kidnapping rates have not changed enough to even comment on. This is not to say it's safe to leave small children in cars, but to say that maybe it NEVER truly was... Kids could always climb into the front seat and pull the emergency break, kids could always lack the knowledge and unlock the door for a stranger, kids could and were unfortunately kidnapped since the beginning of time. Things ARE blown out of proportion today, but that's not to say we shouldn't be smart. Teach your kids "stranger = danger", teach your kids what the emergency break is and not to pull it, teach your kids not to climb into the front seat and mess with the steering wheal at any time, teach your kids what WE were all taught. AND if they aren't mature enough or old enough to grasp all these facts and follow through with them than they are not old enough to sit in the car alone for any period of time.
Oops sorry, "Side swipings BY drunk drivers" ;)
OP here-
Thanks Miss Dee. Yes, I have seen her around before but no I do not know who the parents are. I told my boss to keep a look out too. I walk the neighborhood a lot with my charges and will now be looking for the black car.
Yes, Shorewood is an upper class neighborhood and I was surprised by this incident because most of the nannies that I have encountered are great with the kids and very responsible.
Hey Miss Dee,
I don't know about everybody else, but I have no idea about what you may have said befire that was so offensive. I'll bet its mostly, if not all, forgotten by now.
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