Saturday

"Help me understand the "methodology"

Received Saturday, October 6, 2007-Perspective & Opinion

Found this ad on Craiglist. Just wondered what everyone thinks about this:

We are exploring the option of having someone come to our home full-time for care-giving or place our 20month old in a home-based daycare. We only want aNanny/Caregiver to provide childcare, not run personal errands for us, not pick up any children @ school, not clean our house etc...strictly childcare. We are encountering that what a Nanny/Caregiver expect for pay in our home, is more money than allot of people make per week after paying their taxes at their corporate job. Can someone explain the rational behind Nanny/Caregiver's (college students/young mother's)that want to bring their child along, expecting a pay range of $450-$600 cash, (not reporting earnings-which BTW displays total dishonesty to any hiring family)and in addition to the above asking pay range want Tobe paid for gas to travel to our home and travel back to their home when their day is done. (Ummm...not to sound mean, but when my husband and I travel to working the morning and leave in the evening, our employer does not pay for our gas) Guess, I'm just trying to understand why a person that will have their child in our home, have free food/beverage, free diapers/wipes/creams, free telephone/TV/DVD's, free use of all the educational toys/books, etc...basically, anything we offer to our baby, then we offer FREE to the Nanny/Caregiver and her child. The years of experience, CPR/First Aid training, and educations are pretty much the same between the two care-providers, so what is soooo amazingly different that a Nanny/Caregiver can provide then what Asama/Caregiver provides in the range of $150-$200 +/-a week with meals, beverages, snacks, field-trips,one-on-one interaction etc. provided from their home? Help me understand – you come to our house, have basically FREE anything that you and your child could ever want and then expect to be paid top dollar and not report your earnings??? I'm not trying to put anyone down here, just trying to figure out the methodology and mathematics being used. I'm sure I'll get "hate mail" for asking these questions, but I just don't get it??

submitted by MB

137 comments:

Anonymous said...

the difference is that your child will have the comfort of their own home and crib. They won't have to be dragged out at 6 in the morning to get to daycare. A (good) nanny does all the laundry and dishes, and makes sure your house is clean each day when you come home. You say now she will not be performing errands, but trust me, this ALWAYS changes. As a nanny, we are always hired under certain job expectations, and as the job goes on, more and more is added. Think of how wonderful it would be to be able to spend all evenings and weekends solely with your child, instead of doing laundry, changing sheets, planning dinners, etc, etc.
As far as gas money for to and from work, that is ridiculous, I have no idea what nannies are thinking when they ask for this.
Also, a (good) nanny that is allowed to bring their own child to work would put your child first during work hours, bring their own diapers/wipes/food, etc for their own child, and is providing early peer interaction for your child.
Well, that's what I have to say about it, hope that helps!

Anonymous said...

Dude,
this woman sounds wound too tight.
And who in the world would hire a nanny with a kid? I understand hiring a nanny who has a child after a lengthy and mutually beneficial period of employment and accomodating her and the child. I mean if you are lucky to have the same nanny for more than two years and still like her, she is doing something right.
Even said that, why would she be using your baby wipes? And could she really drink whatever she wants? Really?

And for the last time, nannies do not make decisions. Employers do. The decision to work on or off the books should not be a decision at all but something that all employers do. So many employers hire off the books illegal immigrants and pay them $15 an hour that there is a lot of bitterness in the nanny community. Some of the salaries don't make sense.

But if you are paying good wages, bitch better have a degree, not a child and be able to drive on the Major Deegan while listening to a screaming baby.

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Anonymous said...

The OP acts like a nanny hanging out in your house all day is the epitome of a comfortable, relaxed day. It's not. It's work.

And even when the baby is sleeping, it's not as though she would feel all that comfortable just kicking back and relaxing. It's not her house, after all. Relaxing in your own home and relaxing at work are too totally different animals.

With that said, these nannies should be reporting their earnings to the IRS. If the employer is paying a decent wage, they should get the benefit of the tax write-off.

Anonymous said...

Yes, people these crying illegal immigrants are putting a drain on our schools and our healthcare system. They want free medical treatment. In Seattle, they want to teach the Mexican School curriculum in high school because it is "more relatable for the immigrants". This madness has to stop. Have you picked up an illegal immigrant lately and asked him to do work? They don't climb in the back of your truck for less than $10 an hour. They don't pay taxes on that. It's free and clear. And wifey is demanding $20 an hour to clean a house or $15 an hour to nanny, all free and clear. Meanwhile what of the American lower middle class? Busting their balls and backs in retail jobs across the country? They make 8 dollars an hour and pay a ton of taxes. And what do they get in return for all their taxes? They sure haven't gotten a GD fence on the border.

All you horrible, horrible people who are not paying your nannies on the books need to be tossed on the train tracks. Anti-American bastards.

Anonymous said...

op, do the world a favor and stay home and raise your own children. and i dont say that from the perspective of save the children let their mommy's have them but save the nanny that might end up working for you.

Anonymous said...

Holy Crap People...really...Holy Crap. I have many thoughts mostly because your jumping all over in the comments...
1. I find mostly that when someone is asking to be paid under the table it's because they like/want the job, it's just that with your million dollar house, dual Lexus SUV's and mutliple vacations you can squeak 15.00 an hour outta your ass for your supposed " deeply loved child". Keeping in mind that nanny must live within a reasonable commute and so if your stationed high and proper in a mutli-million dollar neighborhood chances are rent, let alone buying a roof over her head within a 30 minute commute will well remove at least one paycheck a month.
2. You want somone childless, which means she doubtfully has someone living with her which further backs the fact that one paycheck goes to rent solely. Now you need her to cart "deeply loved baby A" so that requires a car, complete with car payment and insurance, not to mention gas and maintainance....there goes one more check...In in 2 years you add "deeply loved baby b" with no raise...cause that's how 90% of you nanny families are.
3. I know and understand that the above is all "life" and that everyone has bills..yadda yadda etc..etc...But when you ask for the cream of the crop ...certified professional nanny, childless and dedicated to your life you can't pay her shit for a 55 hour work week when it boils down to the fact that you (employers) couldn't live, let alone wouldn't get your ass outta bed for the money they take home weekly...
If you have a 2,000 house payment and dual 800.00 lexus payments and priceless vacations and squatting out 600 week for baby ...whacks you out..then please call social services now and tell them to take your child, because your priorities are way outta align and the best nanny in the world won't keep your kid outta therapy for the worthless parenting they recieved as a child....

sd said...

I don't understand your comments. I am a nanny in NY and my rent is 2k per month.

Did you mean to say 20,000 house payment?

Anonymous said...

yeah...sorry

Anonymous said...

$450-$600?! Consider yourself lucky! All about supply and demand...

Anonymous said...

If a nanny is bringing their child to work with them, they can't expect the same pay, as a nanny that doesn't bring their own child.

Any other job you would have to find someone to watch your child. So a nanny should give a break with the price. Instead of $15 maybe, $8-9 per hour. Depending, on where you live for wages. Yes, I think food should be provided for the caregiver and her child while their.

I don't agree with her using supplies, as diapers, wipes, ointments, etc. Also, I don't think you are responsible for her gas to come and go from your house. Now if you expect her to drive your child around thats a different story.

Thanks

sam said...

NO NO NO NO NO
You are all wrong.
Almost all.

Yes, employers should pay taxes. If every employer paid taxes, nannies would have no power except to take jobs on the books and the illegals would be exterminated.

And regarding paying a sitter with a child $9 or $10 an hour, no no no. A nanny who wants to bring a child to work is not a candidate you need to deal with at all. Unless you know her through a friend who is reccomending her, for example, "Jo used to babysit for us, but she just had a child of her own. She is looking for a nanny job where she can bring her child".

FOr a nanny to interview and ask to bring a child to work; that is just poor etiquette.

And if your nanny ever brings any of her children to your home, she should show up with food, treats and drinks for them. It is up to you to offer something to them, but she should not expect anything.

OP has a great point. The nerve of some of these nannies. Yes, they are often asking to be paid off the books so they can have their $15 an hour free and clear. If you calculate that and you have a great nanny, that is one thing- but look at the disgusting nannies everywhere. And they are making $15 an hour and not paying taxes.

Memo to US Immigration Service and I Saw Your Nanny, how about an I SAW YOUR ILLEGAL NANNY working? You post it on the blog and immigration sweeps in and picks up the illegal. Buh-bye.

Anonymous said...

Hi Sam

This site is all about opinions, no right or wrong for the most part. I was stating my opinion. It sounds to me the O.P. is exploring the option of a mom bringing her child. But not to pay extravagant wages.

Anonymous said...

There will be some nannies who make outrageous demands, just as there are employers who make ridiculous offers. It is simple. It is up to you to decide what you are willing to pay, if you want to pay on the books (as you should), or hire someone who will bring her child. It is the nanny's choice if she wants to accept your conditions.
The reason a nanny is more expensive than daycare is because you are responsible for her whole income. In a daycare in which there are say four children, you are only paying 1/4 of her income.
The advantage of a (good professional) nanny is: schedule, activities, and meals customized to the needs of the child, and wishes of the parents, and one on one attention. Less exposure to illness, and if the child is ill, the nanny will care for him, whereas he would have to stay home from daycare. The nanny will stay late if necessary. Not to mention not having to drop off and pick up.

Anonymous said...

Well said 10:32. And just coming home to your child baking cookies with the nanny, curled up in a chair reading a book or doing an art project is so worth it. Not too mention it takes me 15 minuted to get dd bundled up in the winter time. And when you come home in the evening with a child from daycare, you have to settle the child, get the child dressed or undressed. A good nanny will maximize the quality time a mother has with her child. Also, remember you get what you pay for. For us, quality childcare is our number one priority, ahead of cars and vacations. Our nanny makes a competitive salary, gets 3 weeks paid vacation and has health insurance. She is treated like a professional and knows she is appreciated. She hasn't let us down in two years. Not once.

Anonymous said...

Wow, 10:36

Your nanny is fortunate to have you and vice versa I am sure. I wonder what the stats are on being offered health insurance on a nanny job. I had people that loved me too, but when I mentioned health insurance even to split the cost they turned a deaf ear. And I am talking about working for doctors and lawyers!!

chick said...

So much to address here:

Nannies ask for the world on a platter because parents don't say "No." "No, we will NOT pay off the books." is a good place to start.

Nannies ask for whatever they can get because so many employers try to avoid paying mileage, paying bonuses if deserved, giveing raises if deserved, offering standard benefits, etc.

A nanny with a child can bring a playmate for your kid into your home. You don't have to get baby up and out the door. You set the rules, you get to have your child stay at home, sleep in his crib, etc.

A family day care does NOT provide one on one attention. In order to make a profit, the owner has 3, 4, or more kids in their home at $150 per week. 1 to 4 is not one on one care.

A family daycare will make the rules, and the parents will have to follow them, or they will drop you as a client.

Ultimately, parents AND nannies have the power to refuse to offer/take a job. Don't want to have a nanny+child? Say just that in your ad. Don't want to work for $8 per hour, say just what you expect to earn in the ad or the interviews.

Act, don't complain.

Anonymous said...

you can get health insurance working at walmart, the BEAST of America. You can get health insurance to work at mcdonalds. These asshole employers that don't offer health insurance to the nannies who take good care of and wipe their kid's snotty noses deserve to be screwed over by the nannies. Steal. Steal. Steal. Steal enough to pay your own insurance every week.

WE WILL PREVAIL!

Anonymous said...

chick at 11:21

Who the hell are you to say that children in home daycare do not recieve one on one attention? I OWN a home based daycare with my SIX state permitted children. I can tell you your "FACTS" are off. I give one on one attention to every single child, every single day...and I stand behind that!!! I single out each child and enssure I spend one on one time with them..I rotate constantly thru the day. Everyone gets undivided time with me..EVERYDAY. I WAS a nanny, I was plaqued by thousands of tasks other than one on one time for my charge everyday. Answer the phone, put the dog out, do her laundry, tidy her room, bring her down for lunch with me at my break, run to the grocery store, take her to the doctor....You know what home daycare is..It's 12 truly dedicated hours to your children..I don't answer the phone (unless its a parent) I dont do grocery shopping, laundry, playroom straighting, putting the dog out.....I HAVE much more time with the children in my care now, then with the one child I nannied for. Everyone needs to speak from personal experience Nannies speak as nannies, SAHM speak for SAHM, and home based daycare speak for home based daycare. Chick needs not to speak for others.

Anonymous said...

oh an P.S. chick...I make rules on payments and hours. Any "rules" that involve children..such as what they can and can't do..what they can or can't eat, where they can go...etc...is soley determined by the parents...I have had 5 sets of parents agree to an outing and one set not and the trip is cancelled. I will not "drop" a family for failure to comply to my rules on raising their child...they make the rules!

Anonymous said...

and your going home daycare rate is wrong as well..so apparently you talk out of your ass..chick!

cali mom said...

To Ignorant Thief at 11:30: there are MANY employers in many industries who do NOT offer medical insurance, and of the ones who do, in this country, it is practically unheard of for ANY employer to cover the cost of it 100% for employees. I have worked in corporate positions for 20 years and not one employer EVER paid the full cost of the insurance. In the construction industry, it's extremely rare for contractors to even offer a group plan to their employees, so please stop talking out of your ass. (No, I am not the home daycare owner but the experession applies here as well).

OP, I would NEVER pay someone off the books. If something goes wrong and your child comes to harm, the person you hired could deny ever having met you. And you might be hesitant to report any crimes they commit, since you'd be outing yourself as a criminal and would suddenly find you owed a shitload of unpaid taxes.

It's not unreasonable at all for a prospective employer to simply sqay they don't want a nanny to bring her own child, as that equates to a nanny-share, which you may have already decided against since you are interviewing for a nanny to care for YOUR child.

That said, if a nanny is highly qualified, professional, experienced and capable, and her salary requirement is within the range of the going rate for the profession in your neighborhood, you sound like a cheapskate to complain about it, and should consider other options than hiring a nanny. It's the same with anything you need done. You either hire a professional and pay them a professional wage, or you do it yourself.

Anonymous said...

But if she does hire someone to work in the home, I hope she informs them that there living area is subject to being searched anytime, as to protect herself from these criminals that are posing as nannies.

Anonymous said...

Geez people! Look at how bitter so many of these nannies are towards the families that hire them. They do not feel that they are getting a fair deal. How much love and care do you think they are giving to your precious children while seeming to be so bitter about their jobs and resentful towards their employers? raising a child is a heck of a lot of work...are they going to go that extra mile to do it right when they feel like this about their jobs? Some of them express great disdain towards white people and/or rich people. Do you think they are adoring your rich, white children the same way you would...if your children were enough of a priority in your lives for you to make the "sacrifice" to spend your days raising them yourselves, that is? Here is the scoop...the vast majority of children raised by nannies are NOT loved and cared for the way they should be. These are not pets, people. How about being a little less self absorbed and a little more responsible? The time to be selfish and immature is BEFORE you bring innocent children a universe where you are perpetually at the very center. You are doing everlasting harm to your "precious" children by leaving them day after day in the care of people who do not love them. Don't try to fool yourselves. You know it's true.

Anonymous said...

who wouldn't be bitter? Low wages, long hours, little appreciation, treated like dogs (also look like dogs much of the time, but that's a different matter), not trusted, not respected..... I could go on and on but, bitter you say? Hell yes

Anonymous said...

Does anyone else hear the music? Sounds like the new Britney song. Background music here?

Anonymous said...

np here and every person I know with a nanny is obscenely wealthy. And I just wonder how many of them pay for their nanny to have healthcare?

It is no wonder nannies are always talking about how awful the parents are, how cheap, what poor parental units they are- I do feel for the way some of the nannies are treated. I am a stay at home mother and deal with some of the nannies 1 on 1 and have gotten to know them over a period of time. Some, not all; but some of these women are so wonderful, they tend to the children's each and every need and the way they are treated is obscene. This is of specific concern because these same employers pay their personal trainers more in one hour than the nanny makes in 2 days. Priorities?

Anonymous said...

I run a nanny agency/ been a nanny/ and now am a mom who has a nanny for my twins.
First of all you do not pay the same for a nanny who is bringing her own child. When a famliy wants in home child care but cannot afford a nanny's salary they often hire a nanny with a child as a next best scenerio to fit their income.
I would say 75% of my families who hire a nanny (this is in the the Chicago burbs) live in a house that cost under 500,000. (most even being below that) There are those exteremly weathly that often comes to mind when you think of hired help, but most of my famlies are accountants, lawyers, teachers, nurses (you get my drift). I have spent $ marketing to the wealthy and still get most my business from the above!
To pay the same when a nanny is bringing a child is inaccurate. Not to say there are nannies out there who disagree.

Anonymous said...

I dont get it either. Especially considering the caliber of nannies we read about on here.

Linda (of the daycare revolution) said...

The branch of nannification that best defines the principles and procedures of existence in the particular discipline of nannying colligate to a grotesque percentage of nannies that possess an alarming degree of entitlement. In exchange for their mere, bland and often irascible presence in your home, you are expected to bathe them in generous salary, unmerited bonuses, vacations, holidays and gifts. Dare you supplicate and you shall face their wrath for they cannot be impeded up, challenged, summoned or even briefed without demonstrating tremendous attitude.

Good luck.

Anonymous said...

I have a part time childcare position and a small child of my own. I bring my child with me while working, and subsequently, I do charge slightly less than the average hourly rate in my area.

At the same time, however, I chafe under the assumption that a nanny should accept less pay because she has access to FREE EVERYTHING while in your home. My employers are very generous, and encourage me to offer my child helpings of the snacks they buy for their child. (These snacks are set aside in a designated cabinet.) However, even if it was offered, I would prefer to bring my own baby supplies for my child. I would never presume to use my employer's phone except to call them, and do not use my cellphone to make personal calls while working. I can't remember an occasion, even when both children were napping, that I've ever sat down and watched television or a DVD.

Having an individual childcare provider is different than choosing a group setting. I do not have to balance the needs of many children, and can tailor my decisions around the two in my care. If my charge wants me to read his library book 10 times in a row, I can do so. If he is exhausted, we can cancel an outing. If he wants to go to a particular park, we do. Not to mention, I have much more of an ability to accomodate schedule changes and delays than a daycare provider could. You are getting a different, more individually tailored service. It is not unreasonable to expect to pay a higher price.

From your post, I get the sense that you feel much more positive about in-home daycare. Perhaps a nanny isn't the right childcare option for your family.

And to the poster who is so positive about the great insurance packages offered at Wal-Mart? Research into how many of the corporation's workers must rely on Medicaid.

Anonymous said...

6:21 made a comment about a white person, a similar comment was made about black people a couple weeks ago and was removed very quickly, doesn't seem very fair to me...

chick said...

To the pissy 12:17/12:20/12:24 annoymous poster:

"Who the hell are you to say that children in home daycare do not recieve one on one attention?"

I am someone who can do math - 1 is not equal to 6. 1 is equal to 1.

"I OWN a home based daycare with my SIX state permitted children."

Good for you.

"I can tell you your "FACTS" are off."

Since I have no idea who you are or what your care standards are, I am sure I wasn't accurate. I was generalizing. Something everyone here does.

"I give one on one attention to every single child, every single day...and I stand behind that!!! I single out each child and enssure I spend one on one time with them..I rotate constantly thru the day. Everyone gets undivided time with me..EVERYDAY."

So you give a few minutes of 1 to 1 attention to each child each hour. Great. Still doesn't equal what a parent with a nanny calls "one-to-one attention". It is impossible to manage that with 1 adult to 6 kids. Period.

"I WAS a nanny, >snip< run to the grocery store, take her to the doctor."

Yep, and you spent about as muich time with your charge then as you do with each of your daycare kids now.

"You know what home daycare is..It's 12 truly dedicated hours to your children...>snip<....I HAVE much more time with the children in my care now, then with the one child I nannied for."

Does your dog just pee on the floor, since you don't put it out for 12 hours? How icky!

"Everyone needs to speak from personal experience Nannies speak as nannies, SAHM speak for SAHM, and home based daycare speak for home based daycare. Chick needs not to speak for others."

I can express my opinions, and you can express your disagreement. I KNOW what I can do as a nanny with 2 kids, and my experience there tells me trying to care for 6 kids would mean little or no personal attention. If your experience is different, congrats to you for being uberdaycare lady!

"I make rules on payments and hours. Any "rules" that involve children..such as what they can and can't do..what they can or can't eat, where they can go...etc...is soley determined by the parents."

I was focusing on pay issues in my post. So I stand by my statement. YOU make the rules about how much you charge. And if you have no control over what the kids do/eat/etc., you have LESS control than a nanny, and I think you're bitter.

"I have had 5 sets of parents agree to an outing and one set not and the trip is cancelled. I will not "drop" a family for failure to comply to my rules on raising their child...they make the rules!"

Definitely bitter, and no wonder - stuck in a house all day long due to the whims of 1 of 6 employers.

"and your going home daycare rate is wrong as well..so apparently you talk out of your ass..chick!"

I used the $ amount for daycare that was mentioned in the original post. As I already said, I do not know you, and cannot logically be expected to know what YOU charge. Nor do I really care.

And I think I'd hesitiate to leave a child with you, since you seem to be a little angry and have a touch of potty mouth.

Cheers!

P.S. Why not stand up and be counted as a brave poster by using an actual ID? That would make it easier to respond to you - I find the use of posting times so cold and impersonal...

Anonymous said...

A nanny is a babysitter...full time in the event a parent does not have the desire/time in their personal schedule to actually be bothered to raise their own child...but nevertheless a babysitter. Many posting here seem to be afflicted with a sense of entitlement far beyond reason, given the level of education required for the job. But whatever the reason for the overall disdain and bitterness toward their jobs and employers, why are parents willing to subject their children to being at the mercy of such bitter people on a daily basis? Do they somehow posess the values and qualities that you hope will be passed on to your child? Do you want your children to grow up with a general disdain for the wealthy and a sense that anybody who has earned a substantial paycheck is cheap and selfish if they do not overpay an employee, just because they can "afford to"? Do you want them to learn that the world owes them a living beyond what they might actually earn? Or is it simply unimportant to you that oyur children spend their days in the company and at the mercy of caregivers who are bitter, resentful, and do not love them as a parent would/or should anyway?

ceo said...

Most companies won’t pay 100% of health insurance, but some do. My brother is a Harley Davidson technician and they cover 100% of his health insurance. I think most nannies are asking for some coverage of insurance, not necessarily 100% coverage, in fact one posted that she wanted to split it and was ignored completely.

As for day care rates, to the daycare owner at 12:17, I believe rates vary based on where you live. I have heard from several daycare owners that weekly rates in the area are based on a weekly rent in the area, so it would vary from my small town daycare to a NYC daycare. So it is kind of hard to say chick is wrong about rates… unless you know where she is, which maybe I missed.

Although I must say I also enjoyed chick's follow up very much!

ro said...

re: "A nanny is a babysitter...full time"

no a fulltime babysitter is a full time babysitter. You are unable to make the distinction because you have never met a professional nanny. Your impression of nannies has been muddied by all of the uneducated full time babysitters you have met.

There exists such a thing as a professional nanny. Look past the demons, bitter one.

Anonymous said...

I would feel more comfortable leaving my toddler in
a family day-care that I liked than in my home
with a nanny and her child, but this is just my opinion. Also, I do not understand how it is possible
for one individual to go through daily life (doctor's appointments, grocery shopping when kid has a fever, etc...) without ever leaving their own child?
All parents need some kind of help. Some of them are lucky to have family or friends or an available spouse to rely on, but this is not always the case.

Sue Doe-Nim said...

The math doesn't work well for many families and that's why you end up taking a few years (5 perhaps?) to get your child launched off to school age.

Quality child care costs and it costs a lot.

I hear women who have to wake infant children at 5 am to get them to daycare.

Maybe the combo of econ and love will tip the scales and you'll toss the pantyhose and trade them for jeans for a few years?

Anonymous said...

I second that 1:30.

Anonymous said...

chick said...
To the pissy 12:17/12:20/12:24 annoymous poster:
*the name is Mimi and if I cared to comment more on this site, I would take time to log in, but seeing as a I have a life, the brief couple minutes I spend reading on here didn't warrant creating an account-like I said to much of a life to be bothered before this*

"Who the hell are you to say that children in home daycare do not recieve one on one attention?"

I am someone who can do math - 1 is not equal to 6. 1 is equal to 1.

*So in essence you deem it impossible for me to spend one on one time because, you say..1 doesn't equal 6. Well you state you have 2 charges and last I checked 1 didn't equal 2 so that means you, a nanny, cannot also provide any one on one care...huh..interesting. what do they pay you for then?

"I OWN a home based daycare with my SIX state permitted children."

Good for you.
*Thank You*

"I give one on one attention to every single child, every single day...and I stand behind that!!! I single out each child and enssure I spend one on one time with them..I rotate constantly thru the day. Everyone gets undivided time with me..EVERYDAY."

So you give a few minutes of 1 to 1 attention to each child each hour. Great. Still doesn't equal what a parent with a nanny calls "one-to-one attention". It is impossible to manage that with 1 adult to 6 kids. Period.

*Right, because mathmatically as you stated...you cannot provide one on one care either due to your breakdown that 1 doesn't equal 2. And furthermore if YOU were honest and tracked the amount of time you spent driving your charges, answering the home phone, tending to their pets, running numerous small errands (and don't say you don't there isn't a nanny out there that doesn't)cleaning the playroom, tending to the laundry...subtract that out of your work day to see how much one on one time you provide, and I can whole heartedly tell you, I could kick your ass in the amount of one on one time spent with each child in your care. Because I have no time taken away from children for daily driving, errands, laundry, phones,pets,and playroom cleanup.*


Does your dog just pee on the floor, since you don't put it out for 12 hours? How icky!
*who said I had a dog? I didn't..*


I can express my opinions, and you can express your disagreement. I KNOW what I can do as a nanny with 2 kids, and my experience there tells me trying to care for 6 kids would mean little or no personal attention. If your experience is different, congrats to you for being uberdaycare lady!

*apparently then some people are better than others in this field. and maybe I should use the screen name uberdaycare lady, so as to make it easier for you to identify me. Must suck knowing your skills as a nanny max you out at 2 kids...guess I will never be able to call you supernanny, thank goodness you already picked chick as your screen name*

And if you have no control over what the kids do/eat/etc., you have LESS control than a nanny, and I think you're bitter.

*I think the word is BETTER, not bitter. These afterall are not my children, I am paid to be a care provider while their parents cannot be there, so if mom and dad give the okay for skipping a nap, having fruit loops for all meals...although I may not agree with that I MUST concure because they do not BELONG to me. Mom and Dad set the rules. And sorry Chick if you think you have control over your nanny charges your wrong, on any given day you could walk in and your employers could say to you, baby isn't going to nap anymore in the morning and she gets fruit loops for lunch...and no matter what you think, your going to do as they say, because they pay you, and you are not the parent who makes the rules, sorry to shove you off your high and mighty "I make the rules, cause I am the nanny" kick..but it boils down to the fact you are an employee.PERIOD

Definitely bitter, and no wonder - stuck in a house all day long due to the whims of 1 of 6 employers.

*again better not bitter. Not stuck in a house as you might expect ,because we have fab. parks and walking trails, so contray to your belief, stuck in the house..no.*

And I think I'd hesitiate to leave a child with you, since you seem to be a little angry and have a touch of potty mouth.
*I wouldn't dream of leaving any of my future children in the care of a nanny with the mind set as you. You believe you are in charge? It's my child. You believe you make the rules? It's my child. You believe you provide one on one care..between all the other daily tasks you preform..you don't. I think you might have thought the title of your position as "nanny" was CEO of the child, sorry that still belongs to mom and dad. You, as you shouldn't forget can be replaced.*

P.S. Why not stand up and be counted as a brave poster by using an actual ID? That would make it easier to respond to you - I find the use of posting times so cold and impersonal...

*Mimi..you can call me ..MiMi. I have done alot in my life and damn I never thought of how BRAVE I could be by creating a screen name. I mean why are cancer patients being brave fighting cancer , when all you have to do to be brave is create a screen name. Chick can I please have my sticker now...I was BRAVE!!!

-CHEERS! Mimi

P.S. did you really post at 3:06 am??? You really must not have a life, with a screen name and a 3 am post...good god child get out once and awhile!

t.r. said...

re "*the name is Mimi and if I cared to comment more on this site, I would take time to log in, but seeing as a I have a life, the brief couple minutes I spend reading on here didn't warrant creating an account-like I said to much of a life to be bothered before this*"

YOu do not have to log in. You just click OTHER and type in Mimi. How hard is that? Is that why there are so many anonymous commenting people? It is so annoying. The blog owner made it as easy as pie for people to comment and all of these "anonymous""anonymous""anonymous""anonymous""anonymous""anonymous""anonymous""anonymous""anonymous""anonymous" are just a sea of ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

Ro is spot on. Many posters who complain about bitter overpaid, uneducated nannies are not talking about real professional nannies.
I love my job. I have a degree in ECE, years of experience, and I am worth my very good salary.
I am very selective about the families I work for. I am not bitter or resentful because I will only work for a family that treats me with respect and appreciates the hard work and enthusiasm I bring to the job.

chick said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
chick said...

Mimi, love, for someone who "has a life" you just spent a LONG time responding to my post. Thanks for the attention!

And I would respond to your diatribe, but I don't really care to continue this discussion beyond the following point:

If you are SO defensive about what you do and how you do it that you have to come on here to declare yourself to be wonderful, so be it.

I am not that insecure, and I don't really care to go into great detail about how well I do my job, and how I work with my employers as a partner, and have the freedom to make decisions because they trust me, so I'll just let my general comments about the OP stand, and you can stew over the rest.

After all, you could be a 12 year old boy, and I could live anywhere in the world, so time isn't really as much of an issue as believability, and since I admit to being incapable of giving 6 kids one to one attention, I think I'm pretty darn believable.

chick said...

10:15,

Well the vast majority of "nannies" employed by the middle class parents who choose childcare based on how INexpensive it is are actually babysitters. Not Nannies.

So, because people below a certain income level can't truly afford to hire an actual nanny (i.e., someone educated and experienced, with actual great references, unwilling to work under the table, and determined to work with her employers to help their children blossom into terrific people), they've taken the term and caused it to twist totally out of context.

As an actual nanny, that really kind of ticks me off. It's unfortunate that those of us who see childcare as our profession have to constantly battle the sterotypical media images of "nannies" as lazy, inarticulate, and cruel.

It's equally unfortunate that many, many women who are STELLAR babysitters are lumped together with the human refuse whose misdeeds are collected here.

Anonymous said...

So, inform me please, Ro...what is the difference between a full time babysitter and a nanny? What do you do differently with the children because of your professional title that warrants all of this extra money, paid vacation, bonuses,healthcare...and superior attitude over other mere "babysitters?" Do you not watch children, according to their parents wishes and instructons while their parents are away or otherwise occupied? I have watched nannies and babysitters at parks for years and years, as I took my own children to play. There were a few very caring and apparently good babysitters/nannies....but the VAST majority of what I have witnessed first hand over many, many, many years is that the children who are with other than parent caregivers are at best completely ignored or treated as nuisances when they dare to interrupt the nanny/babysitter's conversation, book, or nap. At worst, they get yanked around by the arms, yelled at and berated on a consistent basis...and this is the out in public behavior. Yes, there are some very caring, wonderful sitters/nannies who care for children because they love them. But nobody loves your child like you do (or should), and I think the vast majority of parents have no idea how their children are treated when the caregiver thinks they are not being watched. Nanny/Baybysitter..isn't that like the difference between a Housewife and a Domestic Goddess? Same job...but one with an attitude and sense of entitlement.

Moms PLEASE, do as Sue Doe-nim suggests above...trade in the pantyhose for some mom jeans and do right by your children! Hurry, the formative years are very short, and once they are over, there is no going back to correct the damage that may have been done! You will never be sorry for giving oyur children the best of you now. It's not always glamorous...but it's well worth it...and it's the RIGHT thing to do!

Anonymous said...

Yes, I have worked in schools for many years, both public and private. It is ALWAYS evident immediately, right from the beginning of a school year, beginning with the kindergarteners and working up to the higher grades, which children have been raised by their own parents and which have been in daycare or with a nanny. They can be identified with nearly 100% accuracy, and the effects are heartbreaking.It is not possible to cast your child off onto another caregiver and have them develop the same sense of self esteem, compassion, and moral compass as children who are valued enough to be raised by their own loving parents. So, what do you really want for your children? Do you love them enough to take the time to raise them yourself? Or are you more interested in pleasing yourself?

anonymous1 said...

5:47 I think you are daft. And a liar. Have you done "documented and verified" studies on this? In some cases, poor day care centers may have produced some alumni with sketchy scruples, but I have seen some parents, all on their own, turn out some real pain in the asses.

Anonymous said...

To Mimi-
Just go away. For someone with a life, you spend a whole lot of time clogging up this blog with nonsense.

ro said...

anonymous at 5:36,
why would you take all of that time to write your opinion and not sign it. Let me pick a moniker for you. I shall call you bitter, angry sahm. Please sign future posts- yes click on OTHER and type in B.A.S.

Thanks,

Anonymous said...

Reality is...she can charge what she wants because she has something YOU need. That does not mean that you have to pay her. To be honest...it gets me a little aggrivated that people want to work and have kids and pay their baby sitters almost nothing. Kids grow up too fast...stay home...work when your kids go to school. Show your kids that they are what's important NOT the new car in the driveway or the brand od clothes on your back.

gloria said...

If you cannot hire the best childcare, then you should stay home. I just spent a month looking for someone to take care of my dog while I travel next week. I am fairly confident that I spent more time (and money?) than half of the women in NY spend when looking for a nanny or babysitter.

You don't go bargain hunting when it comes to childcare.

Anonymous said...

Gloria and Anonymous 8:31 have the right idea. Raise your own kids. Otherwise you might end up with a bitter, angry, chip-on-the-shoulder nanny like Ro. Some of these nannys are clearly not warm and loving types who should be attending to children...and yet...here they are...a sampling of what you might inadvertently end up with, despite oyur best interviewing skills. Do you think she admits to being bitter and nasty in her childcare interviews? Just something else to think about moms. Do you want a Ro teaching your kids about grace and manners?

ro said...

All of you anonymous commenters are so pathetic. How hard is it to use other and one initial?

Is that you at 930? I thought I assigned you a name.

I am not a nanny. I'm a working mother (OBGYN) with two school aged children.

chick said...

5:36, unfortunately, in the US, the term "nanny" has been weakened and twisted. In the UK, a nanny is someone who has graduated from one of the few recognized nanny schools, and anyone else is a sitter.

Knowing the dangers of generalization, I'll attempt to clarify the difference between sitters and nannies here in the US. First, please note there are fantastic sitters and crappy nannies, and vice versa, in the world at large. No one thing holds true for every sitter, every nanny, or every SAHP.

Education:

1)Often, a nanny has completed some or all of a college degree with a child-focused major. A sitter MAY not have formal education.

2) A nanny is usually interested in expanding her knowledge of shildcare and child development. They may take courses, attend workshops or conferences, etc. A sitter MAY not do those things.

Career Choice

A nanny has deliberately chosen to have a career caring for children. They do not see childcare as the best they can do, as a fallback job, or as a temporary thing until a "real" job comes along.

A sitter MAY be babysitting because that's what her skillset equips her to do. Or she might be a Ph.D. candidate who babysits to earn living money until she graduates.

Pay and Benefits

A nanny works on the books. Period. She will generally be offered paid vacation/holidays/sick days, mileage reimbursment if she uses her car for work or the use of a family car, health insurance is not uncommon, nor is matching IRA contributions, a cell phone, health club membership, and yearly raises/performance bonuses. Please note, nanny does not DEMAND these things, her employers OFFER them in order to make her feel appreciated. I have never worked for parents who would accept DEMANDS from a nanny, and I doubt many parents exist that would cheerfully fulfill a list of demands.

Sitters tend to work off the books. They may or may not get any benefits.

Job description

A nanny is responsible for the emotional, physical, and intellectual development of her charges. She may plan out weekly lessons, she may plan numerous outings, she may schedule playdates, research schools, take children to activities, and even do all the purchasing for the children in her care, buying everything from diapers to backpacks to shoes to toys.

A sitter is responsible for keeping her charges safe and happy, fed and watered, clean and entertained. She is not asked to go beyond those responsibilities.

There you go. Hope it was informative and helpful!

Anonymous said...

Ro, 9:30 is right. You are starting to sound like maybe you have an anger problem? Why so hostile? Do you presently work around children?

Anonymous said...

To 5:47pm, please tell us more. Tell us how you can tell certain children have been raised mainly by daycares or by poor quality "nannies"? Please tell us more about your observations. What have you seen in kids raised primarily by daycares and "nannies" and what have you noticed in kids raised primarily by their own parents? I would really like to know the specifics. Thank you very much. It sounds very interesting. Something that many people suspect but wonder if there is actual evidence.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Chick, for the informative answer. This makes clear the distinction between the two groups of caregivers, who seem to be quite at war here on this blog. I am quite taken aback by the level of hostility exhibited in so many of these posts. I, like the woman who innocently posted the origianl question, actually had no clear understanding that there was a distinction. So now we see, ladies, that there are definite disctinctions between the kinds of care one might expect from a traditional, educated-in-the-field, "English" nanny, and a babysitter who wants to claim a title and benefits that they might not otherwise be entitled to. Parents, perhaps this will give you a more clear indication of what so many people have said here...you get what you pay for (unless you are duped by some underqualified "nanny" into paying top dollar for a mere babysitter.) That said, it is also probably true that your goal should not be bargain priced childcare. Chick, where might one go to find a real, educated, highly qualified, and high quality nanny, since so many here seem to be questioning, but not getting satisfactory leads? I should think that no mother would want to hire second rate childcare and then be expected to pay her top nanny dollars with mega benefits? But I have to say that I do agree with the thread here that advocates parental care over paid childcare. Sure, there are some moms who have no choice but to go to work to support their children. But the people here, with the ability to pay top dollar for a well qualified nanny---clearly your children are not in danger of going hungry by any means. Most of you have choices and options. Why not just take a few years to devote the best possible care and love to the human beings that you brough into this world?

kelly said...

OP, interesting ad that you found on Craigslist. It is a very very long and somewhat bitter ad. The employer is doing more ranting than advertising. My two cents :)

Erics mom said...

Its 10:44

When I mentioned about health coverage, I didn't expect the employer to pay 100%. Its true you have to pay into health coverage on most jobs, anyway. Just stated when I mentioned splitting the cost, it was ignored.
How many times, I have gotten sick from the kids I watched in the past, when I was younger. I should have gave them the doctor bill.

Anonymous said...

I see things like this all the time: what bothers me most about this is parents who don't understand why daycare equals the cost of their paycheck "after taxes."
It is because childcare providers provide a service and that service costs money. It is all about choices: if you feel it is too much to pay, stay home with your child and take the pay cut. But the OP of this ad would never do this because she is a liar: her paycheck after taxes most likely equals three to five times the amount the nannies make before taxes are taken out.
As far as paying off the books, I was a nanny and am now a home childcare provider and I claim everything I make. Why complain about nannies who want to be payed off the books: simply tell them that is not an option. And good luck finding someone who wants to make 9 dollars an hour before taxes.
If you don't want a nanny with a child, don't hire one. It is a personal choice. And one poster here is right: home childcare is not a nanny: that is why I only charge 40.00 a day. Even if your nanny is bringing their child with them, your child is still allowed the luxuries of their own home. If you want to be a skinflint and not share your food, put it in the contract. I don't think any mom who was being payed good money to travel to your home every day wouldn't bring their own diaper bag with their own wipes. Of course if they are making peanuts, share your wipes, for god's sake.
OP is all kinds of crazy if you ask me. But sadly, she is similar to many many parents out there who want quality childcare for the price of a street-vendor weenie.

Anonymous said...

You have the advantage of having your children taken care of on a one on one basis all day! Also, do you put money into a 401K for your nanny? No! Are you prepared to give your nanny weeks of paid vacation, number of weeks going up each year? Hmmm... Do you expect your nanny to treat your child with love and respect and like one of her own? Most parents expect nannies to go above and beyond what they would even do for their own children. Remember, you always get what you pay for (unless you are getting ripped off because you are too blind to see it)

Anonymous 5:47 to Anonymous 10:24 said...

Hello. 5:47 here, replying to anonymous at 10:24pm. I will do my best to explain what I have seen. (But first, to the one person who was so upset by my observations--no,it is not scientific data, but I have been in classrooms on a regular basis for 16 years now. I have been on playgrounds and at the community swimming pool--probably thousands and thousands of hours worth of direct interaction and observation. And I have spoken with dozens of teachers about the subject. It was my oldest child's kindergarten teacher who first said to me that "teachers can always spot the difference between a daycare child and a parent raised child immediately." So, if what I have to say upsets you, go ahead and dismiss it because I have not conducted a "scientific" study." I offer my observations only because my heart hurts for some of these children I have known, who I know crave love and attention from their parents above all things, and suffer so when it is either denied, or in short supply. And if even one mom is sort of on the fence about her decision about whether or not to hire outside care and does not realize how valuable her daily presence is to the well being of her precious child, maybe her child will end up with a full time mom instead of a full time caregiver. I don't want to fight with anybody. I know there are also bad full time parents who cause the same kid of damage right from home. And I know there are wonderful babysitters and nannies out there. But NOTHING can replace mommy. And when people try, it shows on their chidren in very obvious and heartbreaking ways.)

Here are some of my observations.
Many of them are subtle, yet unmistakable (and sort of hard to put into words, so bear with me as I do my best to describe in a way that may help you to understand.)The first and most obvious difference is the the bright and eager and expectant look in the eyes of a kindergarten or first grade age child that has been raised by a loving parent. Those children seem to have an unwavering expectaiion that the world is a good place to be, and like they can't wait to see what is next to be learned, explored and discovered. They are eager to make observations and to engage in every activity. These children seem to have more of an inner peacefulness and confidence. They are content to be part of the group, and are more likely to sit quietly at times when the children are expected to be quiet listening. They are not as inclined to do things specifically designed to deliberately call attention to themselves, such as yelling out, disrupting the class, or crying for no particular reason. In the event that the teacher needs to correct their behavior, they are most likely to take direction quickly and return to acceptable behavior. They exhibit a higher degree of kindness and compassion toward the other children. And they tend to make new friends with the innocent expectation that people are nice. They approach school and new friendships with an innocent joy and confidence that is not present in the other group.

This is versus the more dull and detatched expression of a child in that same 5-7 year old range who has already learned to expect a little less joy and love from the world (yes, a crappy, selfish at home parent can produce the same tragic effect. But those also tend to be the moms who, although they do not have "full time" childcare, spend a lot of "me time," with the child left with a sitter an inordinate number of hours anyway while she enjoys mostly child free days.) The expression/look in the eyes of these is sort of like one would imagine on the face of a commuter on a bus or train...not emotional or engaged, but sort of blank and bored and detatched...observing, but not becoming too involved with their surroundings...just sort of going along... If they are prodded, they might become involved, but not with the same joy, eagerness and expectation of a person who expects that the world is full of happy surprises that they don't want to miss out on. They tend to cry much more easily. They tend to cause more disruption in the classroom, and are much harder to redirect when they get out of line...almost like that have no sense of consequences, or the severity of their behavior as they escalate instead of complying when the teacher reprimands them. It seems outwardly to be a lack of respect for authority, but I personally suspect it's something more than that. They are the ones most likely to call the other children names, hit, exclude others, and generally tend to bring negativity instead of joy. There is not a joyful nature to them, as there is to the others. Their schoolwork is very often inferior to the parent raised children--not for lack of intelligence, but for lack of trying, or caring. It's like they have already learned to sort of withdraw and expect the worst in people and in the world, instead of having a joy and anticipation of love and good things. Some of them so CRAVE simple affectionate touch that they literally beg to be held or hugged. Some have come sit with me and the other moms at the park or pool, rather than play with the chilren...I assume because they want a mom who will take the time to talk to them and just be with them, even if they have to beg it from another child's mommy. I don't know if their moms have any idea, or how they would feel if they knew how desperately needy thier children "wealthy" children are. I hope that any mom who reads this will do all she can to make sure her child is not one of those.

Of course these differences are generally more subtle in the bulk of the children than they seem as
I write them here for the purpose of defining the differences, altough there are always a few shockingly tragic extremes in every class. But, while most of the children are at least decently behaved, the differences in the two groups are, nevertheless, obvious to anybody who spends time with children, and they can, with great accuracy be separated into parent care and hired care by simple observation in a very short space of time. A teacher first pointed out to me that it was "always" possible for teachers to spot the differences almost immediately, and I have "tested" this myself ever since--and I can almost see the difference, and very often by just an intital look into the eyes. It is so heartwrenching ever to see a tiny and beautiful little person who has already begun to give up.

To be honest, I don't know that I have ever seen a child who has been cared for by a professional nanny, as dscribed by Chick. What I have witnessed is pimarily group or in home daycare children or full time babysitters (calling themselves "nannies", but with no specific training or special qualifications.) In fact they mostly appear to be uneducated and probably "nannying" for lack of any other bankable skills, and not particularly caring toward the children. (These observations about the "nannies" comes from public observation only...in parks, dropping off/picking up from school, etc.

While a well qualified nanny might be a whole different situation, I still can't help thinking that a child is best off with a loving mommy. I wish everybody could understand and believe in the importance of making our children our first priority.

As far as older children..I don't think any of us need any description to see the difference between a well loved teenager and one who is bitter and has little to no self worth. Sure, there are no guarantees when we raise our children. And some seemingly great parents end up with some really rotten teenagers. But that's not the norm. So we can at least make the effort to give our children the best possible chance and the best possible start in life, can't we? If teachers can see it in the eyes of a five year old with such accuracy, it's real folks! I beg you, don't let this happen to your child!

5:47 again...with a correction said...

Oops! It's me, 5:47 again. I read my post and see that I left out a critical word. When I said that I have been testing the teachers statement that parent raised children can always be distinguished quickly, through observation, from hired caregiver raised children, I said I can "almost" tell the difference. I thought I had typed, I can Almost ALWAYS tell the difference." It is truly shocking, folks, with what accuracy the children can be told apart...and again, very often by a simple look into the eyes.

Anonymous said...

What of the children of emotionally unavailable, alcoholic, drug addicted and mentally ill parents? If these parents have means, their ailments are hidden. The children rely on their nannies and daycares to hold them when they need to be held, to teach them what they need to be taught and to provide them with the consistant guidance one needs to develop into a stable young adult.

kidsadvocate said...

Yes, and do you not think that these same children grow into those with the glazed over expressions by age five? It is a tragedy that any person brings a child into the world and neglects or abuses it. Perhaps a child of such tragically neglectfully and abusive parents is better off in daycare, but is it better off than it would be with a loving mom or dad? NO. And thankfully that is not the norm for children placed in full time childcare. But is that any sort of excuse (because some OTHER parents are WORSE) for a sane and healthy parent with a choice to abdicate responsibility for raising their own children? That does not seem like a rational comparison at all. After all, it's not that we need to quell our own guilt by feeling like we're just a little bit better as a mom than somebody else. You seem to be missing the point. We need to give our children our BEST. And that starts with giving them OURSELVES.

TX Nanny said...

Why is it that when a nanny comes on here and defends her career she is called bitter abd angry. After reading most of the comments it makes me angry. I am one of the professional nannies and I hate when people call me a babysitter. If someone was attacking your career you might sound bitter too.

Just curious said...

To tx nanny. Look back at the posts. There is one by Chick that explains just what a real nanny is. I think most people probably didn't know. And there are a lot of babysitters out there calling themselves nannies, and that makes the real nannies look bad, because there are a lot of bad caregivers visible to the public on a regular basis (hence the need for this website in the first place.) Almost all of them call themselves nannies.
There were a couple of nannies that was writing a couple of days ago that were making a lof of excessively angry hostile posts, and people responded strongly. (I think they were named Ro and Mimi.) If you stay clear of their posts and the immediate responses, you will find that most people are truly just trying to figure things out. Read what Chick had to say. You will probably feel somewhat vindicated.

Anonymous said...

kidsadvocate,
i am not certain i understand what you have stated. there are people at every income level that have had children and are not emotionally equipped to deal with them, or become incapacitated due to mental illness or addiction. At every income level. Unfortunately, not evey parent has a 'best' inside him or herself. so we must embrace everyone who provides a viable contribution to these very tragic childhoods. every nanny, sitter, teacher and aunt.

mom isn't always best.

mom said...

I am sort of shocked by the conversation taking place here. Why are some people grasping at such thin straws in order to justify not taking responsibility for their own children?
Obviously a nutjob of a parent is not best. Or maybe I have wandered onto the wrong site? Is this a site for nutjobs, incapable of taking decent care of a child, and therefore doing the noble thing by getting the child into better hands? Or is it a site for responsible parents looking to do the best for their children?
I was lead to believe it was the latter.
Obviously the children of mentally ill or abusive parents need to be cared for by somebody else. But, that's such an obvious thing that your motive for suggesting it cannot possibly be what it seems.
It seems more like just you want to find a reason, ANY excuse you can grasp at, to justify leaving your child so that you can go on doing whatever it is you like to do and not be bothered, either by your child, or by the guilt that you onviously are trying to escape. Why else make such a ridiculous argument?
Did you know that sometimes people are attacked by sharks when they visit the beach? May family is planning a trip to Florida next summer. My children plan to swim in the ocean. There is a remote chance that a shark will attack and kill one of them. Should I go ahead and murder one of them now? Same difference in the end anyway.

Anonymous said...

No, long winded dipshit- I think she is saying, some nannies save children. some daycares provide the only stability in a child's life. that is sad. it is sad when a child wants comfort the child would know to go to someone besides his or her parent, but don't be naive. it happens all of the time. so i am not buying your whole 'mom is best' type thing. mom is best if:
1) she is not an addict
2) she is mentally stable
3) she wants to be at home with her children
4) she knows how to parent and has some sort of maternal instinct.

lots of women dont have that instinct and the child who grow up around them have cold, dead eyes and broken hearts.

mom said...

You are being defensive and closed minded. The following people should NOT even have children:

1) she is an addict
2) she is mentally unstable
3) she does not to be at home with her children
4) she does how to parent and has no maternal instinct.

The children of the above people, including those under category 3, who should be ashamed of themselves for essentially giving birth to "pets," are all the ones with the cold dead eyes. When any of those things above happens to a child, its chance of growing up with "sparkling, eager eyes" is slim to none.
God bless the people who step in in these instances and do their best to rescue a child. I give them all the respect in the world. They richly deserve it. But the damage is already done in the vast majority of cases.
I don't know why you are so defensive anyway. This is only for the best interest of the children. That is the purpose of this site. To protect children from substandard childcare. I would think moms would want to know the truth. If you are feeling angry and defensive, you need to ask yourself why, not attack the blog.

I don't know you. You have nothing to prove to me. All I have said is that a loving parent is the best situation for a child. That is true. I did not say an alcoholic parent is best. I did not say an abusive parent is best. I did not say an addicted parent is best. I said a loving parent. Do you honestly disagree with that?
I am giving the moms here the benefit of the doubt and assuming they are here because they love their children and want to do the best by them. People were asking for the best childcare option for their kids. I want to make sure that we all understand how very valuable we are to the children we have been blessed to have. That's all.

Anonymous said...

No, dipshit, the shouldn't have children. But they do.

Wise up.

And I am not speaking to you as someone that is pro or against a nanny but as someone who grew up with an alcoholic-narcissitic-borderline mother. If only she had gotten me a sitter, dropped me at a daycare. A nanny? Sounds like a dream to me.

mom said...

Yes, I understand now why you are so hurt, and you have every right to be!
Bad moms are such a tragedy. And sadly they usually end up keeping and hurting their children for a lifetime. There is no excuse for how your were treated as a child, and you certainly owuld have been better off in the care of another.

As I said earlier, I have infinite admiration for somebody who steps in to try to rescue an abused or neglected child.

I am not trying to reach the moms who have no business caring for a child because of addiction, abusiveness, or whatever else may make them unfit.

I am emploring the moms who have a choice financially (even if they have to live in a smaller place, drive a crummy car, whatever), and have the mental capacity to be a loving parent, to PLEASE understand that, by taking the time to show your child how loved and valuable he is, by taking the time to be his present and loving parent, you are putting tast light into his eyes. That's all.

I'm sorry about your mom 6:19.

ks said...

619,
I guess I never imagined that people with nannies have a life less than desirable. I do resent the women who have nannies, who have no interest or connection to their children are always talking about jewelry, sushi and spas and can't hold a ten second conversation on Darfur, Burma or Pelosi. (Who?)

I never considered that a good percentage of them suffer from the same ailments that plague the lower class. Only thing is if you are lower class, you get your kids taken away from you.

"If only wise women had children, the world would be a beautiful place"

Anonymous said...

I don't get it either. Some people have nerve. What B.S. Anyway, I think its fair to treat someone with respect and pay them fairly. My boss doesn't pay for my lunch.... nor does my boss pay for my commute to work... and forget it if I brought my daughter to work.

You have to draw the line somewhere, but I would eliminate any candidate that wanted to bring her daughter to work on a regular basis. An emergency, I can understand, but give me a break.

Anonymous said...

What about "bring your daughter (or son) to work day?

chick said...

10:32 PM

First, I don't see any evidence of battles between nannies and babysitters here, except for the fact that actual nannies do (understandably) get upset when uninformed people constantly refer to sitters as nannies. Since this seems to occur most frequently when a sitter has done something heinous and is refered to as a nanny by posters and the media, it does tend to rub nannies the wrong way.

Now...how do you find a nanny? Well, exactly the way you would find a new executive for your division in your company.

1)You find a terrific headhunter (nanny agency) that you know via references and referrals has done a great job for other companies (families) in the past.

2) You set out a clear and precise definition of the job requirements and the sort of experience/education the executive (nanny) needs to have, and present that to the headhunter (agency).

3) You meet with the headhunter (agency) to clarify and solidify your needs.

4) You determine a timeframe for your search.

5) You pre-interview, interview, and re-interview candidates. You check references yourself, asking in all parts of the process in-depth questions that cannot be answered with a yes or a no. You narrow the field to a single outstanding candidate.

6) You have your executive (nanny) work for a short trial period, so that you can determine if the person is a good fit within your company (family).

7) If the fit is good, you make an offer for a permanent position, after discussing and completing a contract (work agreement) that clearly spells out job responsibilities, expectations, and salary/benefits.

8) You review how the person is doing on a weekly, monthly, and yearly basis. If the initial job description changes, with the addition of more accounts (children), you raise pay accordingly. If your employee's performance is outstanding, you give raises and performance bonuses.

9) You ask your executive (nanny) regularly how things are going from his/her side of the table - listen to any issues that are raised, and work together to resolve any problems.

10) You remember that a sincere "Thank you!" means a lot, and offer one up when it's appropriate.

Anonymous said...

I am the OP. Found another comment from another cheap person in Wisconsin who doesn't value nannies. I am getting really steamed about this!Why would you assume that people who pay a nanny make the most money and can afford to pay more? This makes no sense to me. Sometimes a nanny is cheaper than a daycare center when you have multiple children. And just b/c people complain about how much they pay, doesn't mean they don't appreciate their childcare situation. It could just be that people don't like dropping 20K and up for childcare every year. Yes, they made a choice to work, but lets face it, 20K and up for a nanny or any other service is a lot of money. Money well spent, probably and hopefully, but it's still a ton of money to most people.

And to say that there is too little respect to people doing childcare~ huh? That sounds like a broad statement. Who is giving all nannies little respect? Most important job in the world? Yes, it's a very important job, but who really can say what the most important job in the world is.

I have always understood the difference between nanny and babysitter. It appears this post is made to scold people here who have frustrations with their nannies or childcare situations

Anonymous said...

Sorry. OP here. Here is the comment:


Why would you assume that people who pay a nanny make the most money and can afford to pay more? This makes no sense to me. Sometimes a nanny is cheaper than a daycare center when you have multiple children. And just b/c people complain about how much they pay, doesn't mean they don't appreciate their childcare situation. It could just be that people don't like dropping 20K and up for childcare every year. Yes, they made a choice to work, but lets face it, 20K and up for a nanny or any other service is a lot of money. Money well spent, probably and hopefully, but it's still a ton of money to most people.

And to say that there is too little respect to people doing childcare~ huh? That sounds like a broad statement. Who is giving all nannies little respect? Most important job in the world? Yes, it's a very important job, but who really can say what the most important job in the world is.

I have always understood the difference between nanny and babysitter. It appears this post is made to scold people here who have frustrations with their nannies or childcare situations

Anonymous said...

It's not all glamorous by any means to be a mom.
And I don't think the stay at home moms posting here are trying to imply that they are better moms because they stay home. I think we are trying to say,"Your kids want and need YOU." We are trying to say that being with them more is much better than being with them less. YOU, with your child. Not one of us because we are some sort of superior mom...YOU because, to your child, YOU are irreplaceable. These are years you will never get back with your child. And both you and your child will be the worse off if they are thrown away.

I have heard so many moms who are working unnecessarily justify it by saying they are better moms if they are happy and contented people first. Well, that makes sense. But when your job gets stressful...how do you think your boss would react if you told him that you are a better employee when you are a relaxed and contented person first, and so you will, therefore, be working only between the hours of 6:00pm and 8:30pm from now on? You would be so fired. And why? Because you can't do anything well when you are willing to devote only a few non-prime hours to it at the end of the day. Your boss would see right away that your commitment to your job was a very low priority in your life.

And if you are voluntarily (some parents, God bless them, have NO choice, and this is not about them) choosing to give only a couple of end-of-the-day hours to your child...he will one day grow up and realize that he was a very low priority in your life.

Plain and simple.

housewife said...

I suspect that many employ nannies, daycare and/or childcare because it can be boring to be home with kids.

There I said it. It can get dull.

But so can a cubicle or a corner office.

Sue Doe-Nim said...

"And I don't think the stay at home moms posting here are trying to imply that they are better moms because they stay home."

You are too kind.

I am a better mother because I'm raising my kids.

Sorry, no debating that one.

Anonymous said...

My very best friend in the world was raised by a nanny. Mothers abandoning their children to the care of a domestic is not a new phenom. You can raise your children yourself, you can raise your children WITH a nanny, you can raise your children with a husband, you can raise your children with your mother. There are all types of families out there and anywhere that children are well cared for is a great place to be. What do you hope to do? Shame the incompetent mothers into firing their nannies? Who suffers then? The children. Yes, my very dear friend's nanny was fired and their very close bond was shattered. What's worse is that her parents were absolutely oblivious to her torment and how that forever changed her.

Life is a cesspool.

margaret said...

I'm a 20 year old mother of a 7 month old boy, i live in Australia, I have 3 years experience as a nanny including overseas work in Canada. Recently I have wanted to go back to work as a nanny as I see it as my chosen profession/career but it's really hard to find a family here in Australia that would take a nanny with her own child, what are we nannies supposed to do put our own children in daycare while we look after other people's children? That would work because daycare is more expensive than what nannies get paid, as I see nannying as my career I rely on it to pay other bills such as rent, food, nappies, etc. I ask for $250 AUD a week that includes housework as well as childcare in a 40 hour week. I would bring all my son's nappies, formula, bottles, food, wipes, etc.

Meme said...

Sue, I totally agree with you.

Margaret, I am a bit confused. Did you think this blog was for finding nanny jobs?

erics mom said...

Hi Housewife

Finally, someone thats honest! I love my son, but at times it gets really lonely or boring. I am a SAHM. When you don't have family that comes over to visit you it gets lonely.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 8:18,
Another excellent point! A child bonds to the primary caretaker. It may not be the biological mother... but the one who cares for it, feeds it, etc., is "mommy" in the heart of a child. Whether the nanny is a good nanny or a bad nanny, the child is going to bond and become emotionally attached. How many nannies are employed for the duration of an entire childhood? When the nanny goes, gets fired, or whatever, the child effectively loses its "mommy." Too many times and the child loses the ability to bond at all anymore...did everybody know that?

margaret said...

no i was just saying that people need to give nannies with their own children more of a go

margaret said...

correction to my 8:30 blog, it's supposed to say that nannies putting their own children into childcare WOULDN'T work not would.

cali mom said...

5:28, you summed it up perfectly.

Anonymous said...

Never look for bargains on Heart Surgery, Parachutes and childcare.
Once my charge had a full allergic reaction (throat closing, gasping for air, etc) Apparently he had developed a sudden allergy to peanuts (even though until then he had regularly eaten peanut butter)
My cool head and quick thinking saved his life. The ER doctor told the parents so and they relayed their tearful thanks to me (in addition to a nice cash bonus which I wanted to refuse and they insisted I accept) I get 750.00 per week for full time nanny service. I get that much so that I can take home a living wage after taxes. My employers understand that I need to pay my bills as they do. A living wage these days is at least TAKING HOME 500.00 per week. I don't do laundry or housekeeping but clean up after myself and the children. I am worth every penny as is any excellent nanny. IT can all go wrong in a second, and the person you choose to watch your children can mean the difference between life and death.

Anonymous said...

Interesting what some people want to pay their nannies considering what they expect. Spot cleaning? Give me a break. Work 7 days a week, days, nights, weekends? House cleaning, errands, etc.?

Type of candidate looking for: Upbeat, energetic, flexible, professional, sensible, hard working, honest, playful...someone who understands the demands of professional working parents.....mom needs flexibility----if running late, needs reassurance that nanny can stay with kids until she returns, without a problem....nanny must love "playing" with the kids----they are very imaginative and can keep you quite busy---that's how time flies!! Must be willing to play with kids outdoors. Outside play is a necessary, whether it's going for a walk, playing at home or at a park....They love the fresh air, even in the winter...
Job responsibilities: Children's happiness and well-being come first.....But must be able to multi-task in order to get other chores done such as dishes, laundry (SPOT CLEAN PLEASE!!!!!) and preparing for dinner. Hours will mostly likely change from week to week, including weekdays, nights and weekends. We do have other caretakers such as Grandma and a very special babysitter who is Grace's speech therapist -- to fill in----so you will not be overwhelmed and should not feel that you can't ask off for certain occasions. The Kids have school 3-4 mornings and additional after-school activities. Candidate should use this time for housecleaning duties, errands, etc. Our house is quite tidy and organized so cleaning is very manageable. Grace takes the bus to and from school but Robert needs to be driven to and picked up from preschool (very close to our house). Other light errands also need to be done, gas allowance not a problem...Make healthy meals for children, and help them learn to like them, encourage them and be positive, using the reward system....be sure to tidy up before you leave...All toys must be put away in their proper places (a place for everything and everything in it's place) Must be able to communicate openly should there be any problems---a simple conversation can clear up any misunderstanding.....Candidate must be responsible and willing to stay with the kids on weekends while mom and dad take short trips. There are always other responsibilities that arise out of a job, so let's just say that the above duties are the norm.

Anonymous said...

You know, I don't think any pregnant woman in the world WANTS to be a bad Mother. I think almost every pregnant woman envisions herself having heartwarming moments, baking cookies and singing songs with her precious, perfect children who fufill her in every way.

Then, the child comes and the reality sets in. The child cries, she doesn't understand why. The child throws a fit, she can't figure out the best way to handle it. She gets overwhelmed and she can't cope. The fact of the matter is not every woman in the world is cut out for motherhood. Some women just don't have much of a maternal instinct. Unfortunately, most women don't figure this out until AFTER the children are already in the picture.

So what is she to do? Raise her children anyway and do a shoddy job because she is simply not emotionally cut out for Motherhood? Or hire someone to help her?

You Stay at home Mom's might be good at what you do. But how dare you come her with her superior little attitudes just because someone has the audacity to LOVE HER CHILDREN ENOUGH TO ASK FOR HELP? I find it really hard to believe you are these loving, thoughtful, brilliant parents you say you are when you so obviously lack compassion and tolerance for other people unless they make the same choices you did.

Anyway, my Mother was one of those people who just didn't have much of a maternal instinct. She tried to raise my herself, because she had been told that's what a 'good mother' was supposed to do. Unfortunately, my Mother didn't really know what it took to be a 'good mother' and just leaned heavily on society for advice. She was advised to stay home with me. And I SUFFERED the consequences.

I do not blame my Mother for abusing me. She honestly didn't know any better. But I do lament a society that doesn't seem to want to give people like my Mother any help or understanding. Even worse, I grieve for the children like me who will never have a positive adult influence in their lives because judgemental, snide, stay at home Moms like to guilt people into making choices that they really shouldn't make.

Anonymous said...

Let's state the obvious so 10:53 won't be confused about the very controvecial topic of taking responsibility for raising our own children, as though they were important people ,worthy of our precious time.

IF YOU ARE AN ABUSIVE PARENT, GET HELP!!! DO NOT SUBJECT YOUR CHILD TO YOUR EMOTIIONAL INABILITY TO RESPONSIBLY PARENT. NOBODY WANTS YOU TO BE ALONE WITH YOUR CHILD, EVER!

That said, parenting is hard work. No doubt about it. And at times it is emotionally trying, and NOBODY is Supermom. However, it should be expected that a normal, responsible adult with any sense of decency and compassion should be able to have enough self control to keep from taking their frustrations out on their children through abuse. Sure, every mom loses her temper sometimes. And every mom yells sometime when she shouldn't. And then they feel bad, and then they apologize (hopefully.) And it is good to take little breaks from time to time to refresh--but not so many breaks that it requires having a full time hired caregiver on hand. That's just silly and selfish.

If you are feeling the need to scream at your kids all day and are too selfish and immature to realize that other people besides you have feelings, you're an abusive mom. Get help. If you are able to keep from screaming at other people in your life--people who are big enough to fight back or slap consequences on you, like a boss, your friends or your husband, but can't seem to stop screaming at your defenseless children--then you are just a bully. You need to grow up and/or get some professional help.

But what about people who are not "sick" but simply too engrossed in making themselves the center of the universe to see that their children feel unloved and neglected by all of the long, unnecessary absences from their lives? If you are one of those, do you think it might be possible to realize that SOMETIMES mature adults do things that aren't necessarily always fun or pleasant FOR THE GOOD OF SOMEBODY ELSE? SOMETIMES, when people grow up and become mature adults, they realize that they have RESPONSIBILITIES that they must attend to--and they attend to those responsiblities because they realize that that is what RESPONSIBLE, MATURE, UNSELFISH people do. And did you know that SOMETIMES those same people get SATISFACTION out of what they give to others, even MORE than they do by being the center of their own narcissistic universe?

Just something to ponder...

mom said...

Everybody who employs a nanny or babysitter needs to visit childcaregonewrong.blogspot.com immediately.
I doubt any of these parents anticipated what happened to their children either.
After all, it always happens to "Somebody Else."

Anonymous said...

To 10:53:
abusive mothers are not the issue here. Get a clue: these moms with nannies are not hiring help because they beat their kids if they don't get any. They hire help because they can't or won't live up to the challenge of motherhood.
To the OP: you need more than an explanation. We just can't help you with your problem until you realize that you have one.

Meg's a Mommy said...

It's really embarassing to see grown women criticize each other for their own personal life style choices. I am a mom, a professional, and a realist - I have made what I feel are the best choices for my family and I feel no need to justify them to anyone. I love my child, I am fulfilled by my job, and I hope to God that by the time my daughter is an adult, the Mommy Wars have ended with a peaceful truce - make good choices, make responsible choices, and make damn sure that you don't live in a glass house before you start throwing stones.

Anonymous said...

Meg,
I hope your daughter gets a lot of satisfaction out of how fulfilled you are by your job. Is she awake when you get home so you can tell her all about your fabulous day? I would hate for her to miss all the fun.
You know in your heart that this was not "the best choice for your family." It is what you want and that is just a stock expression to explain, in a less offensive way, that you don't care to be saddled with raising your own child.

When she grows up, likely the biggest "mommy war" she will experience is with you...when she realizes how little value you placed on her during these years.

sleepy said...

Don't be quick to judge Meg. We don't know her circumstances. Maybe, she has a great job, where shes home at a reasonable hour. Not all working moms are out till 7p.m. Some have jobs where they can be home by 3 or 4 pm. I worked in a school in the past 9-2:30.

Maybe, if she didn't get out of the house she would feel depressed. If you don't have family around, or financial means to do alot of activities, or go places, it can get lonely. Now how would that be beneficial for her children??

meg's a mommy said...

Anonymous - no surprise you are unwilling to put a name to your hateful post. Any person, any woman, any mother who has an attitude like you is precisely the reason why my friends and I avoid playgrounds and parks where sanctimonious mommies congregate, whether these mommies choose to work or stay at home. The time I spend with my daughter is wonderful and fulfilling for both us - and should she not understand that when she is older, that will be my great failure - not pursuing my career but neglecting to let her know that she is the reason I work so hard. I would never attack your choices the way you seem to be so comfortable attacking mine - shame on you to assume that you know anything about my circumstances or my choices. But thank you so much for proving my point so brilliantly - that the insecure among us are always on the offensive and that it may not be personal, but it is a shame.

Anonymous said...

Meg,
How would your boss feel if you were to tell him that you are a better employee when you feel personally happy and fulfilled, and therefore, you have made a decision "for the good of the company" to come to work only at the end of the day each day, after you have finished doing the things that make you feel happy and fulfilled as a person?
Of course, you would explain to him that you are doing it all "for him and for the company." Because a happy and fulfilled employee not only brings more joy to the workplace, but is able to pack a whole day's worth of work into just a few hours of "quality" worktime at the end of the day. If he failed to understand this, it would not be because it makes no rational sense, but because you failed to to convey it properly to him.

Of course, you would need to avoid frequenting areas where the other employees who fulfill all of their daily responsibilities congregate--not because seeing them made you feel guilty for slacking,of course--but because you imagine that they might look askance at you for doing a halfassed job. (In reality, the other workers would actually be too busy concerning themselves with their own duties to even notice you, but your overwhelming guilt would cause your imagination to go into overdrive and force you to assume that all eyes were judging you. Of course, this is not all that surprising, since you already feel that the world revolves around you anyway.)
It always amazes me when people have kids and don't make the shift away from putting themselves first to putting the child first.

meg's a mommy said...

Again, too afraid to post your name, too ignorant to accept that people make their own personal choices. The concept that "staying at home" makes you a better mother is such a foreign and bizarre thought to me - I am capable of contributing in the workforce while managing my own home, quite well, thank you. I am fortunate that I have outstanding childcare, a fact that I have verified through surveillance, unexpected visits, second hand accounts, and - now - unconditional trust in my child care provider. I am confident enough in my ability as a professional and a parent that I don't criticize you or your choices - no one has it easy and I would not judge you for your choices, however much I may disagree with them. I am not accountable to you - or aquainted with you, I hope - and for that I am endlessly thankful. I'll continue going to the office and excelling, coming home and being an involved and caring parent, and steering clear of you and your ilk wherever I go - not because I am jealous or embarassed or ashamed, but because I graduated from high school over a decade ago and don't thrive on the drama of judging others.

Anonymous said...

Ignoring the hateful posts above -

To the OP - do not hire a candidate who has another child with her. Plain and simple. Or else, pay what you would pay for a "nanny share" situation in which a nanny is watching 2 children. To me, that would be untenable.

Anonymous said...

I have been much harsher with you than I should have been. I'm sorry.

I just feel so strongly that children need their moms AT HOME that I just wish I could shock a few of you into seeing how IMPORTANT YOU ARE TO YOUR CHILD.

As proud as your daughter may be of you, I guarantee that no accomplishment you may ever achieve will make her as happy as if you just made her peanut butter sandwich for her each day, sat with her to read a book and took a walk with her. If she knew that she could relax and play alone for a while or take a nap and know that you would always be there and have more time for her a little bit later. There is a security for a child to that..in not having to cram all of this quality time into the specific time that is alloted for you to be available to her. For her to know, without a doubt that there is nothing more important in your day, or in your life, than being her mommy. Does that make sense?

Our society has sort of forced women to try to have it all. But it's a myth that we can have and do everything. To add more things to our lives, compromise has to be made somewhere. Unfortunately, that sacrifice has been made by the children. And you can see it in the children.
And I think moms like you pay a price that you don't even realize. You may realize too late, or you may never realize at all what you have missed.

PS In all the days I have spent at various parks, I have never even recognized a working mother as distinguishable from a stay at home mom. It's not like one group of us has horns or something. Go to whatever park you want. I doubt anybody else can tell either. (Unless perhaps one were to show up in a wool suit and heels and be unavailable for play because they were afraid of soiling their work clothes, but I've never witnessed anythinglike that happen.)

Sue Doe-Nim said...

As to the "mommy wars".

If you're comfortable in the decision you've made they won't matter to you.

Send your kids an email and ask them. I'll ask my kids when I pick them up from school, I'll be waiting with a healthy snack for them.

If you're angry, bored or lonely go fix it with some other women in the neighborhood.

This is not a job you get to quit, this is a job you have to make work. Many women need to work, if it's for personal satisfaction then it's because you're too lazy and short sighted to take satisfaction from doing this right.

Sorry ladies. I'm not interested in the Mommy Wars, I'm not interested in making sure your feelings are hurt but I will say that you should be ashamed of taking a shortcut to satisfaction.

Your needs could have been met without putting your kids on the chopping block, you were just too selfish short sighted to make a better plan.

Anonymous said...

Good post 12:40
It was well spoken, valid, right to the point, and not ugly or malicious
It's NOT about saving Moms' feelings. It's about saving kids.

Anonymous said...

12:24
I am a mom with no nanny experience. But I guarantee I could nanny my child and another at the same time, being impartial and very loving to both children at the same time. I know I would be a real beneift to a family if I chose to do that. Thankfully I don't need to at this time. But I love kids and I treat every kid as I would if it were my own. I think there are others out there with the same values toward children as me. For that reason, I would consider a nanny with child even over a nanny wihtout. I would do a lot of observation at first, as I would with anybody. But I think the idea has real promise if you can find the right nanny for the job. And you would be doing a really good deed for a fellow mom in need.

Anonymous said...

Ok there appears to be a self-appointed sanctimommies who have nothing better to do but come onto this type of website and congratulate themselves as to how much better they are than everyone else who makes other choices. I mean, for what purpose are you here? I truly do not get it.

Missiechan said...

Having a mother who stays home is good for the child, but who says having a good nanny is worse? A nanny who has looked after a number of children of all ages and personalities might come to the job with a few tricks and techniques that a mother who has only looked after her own children wouldn't know about. I found out myself how useful this is when my employer had terrible trouble toilet training her youngest son. She confided on me that she'd had trouble training all three of her boys, and even her seven year old still has accidents. It took me two days to get the toddler going to the toilet like a big boy, since I've trained eleven other toddlers. I'm well used to it. She spends loads of time with her children and so do I. They get the best of both worlds.

Anyway, I don't believe raising children is just the job of the mother or a nanny; it's a community thing. When I was growing up, children were raised by mother, father, both sets of grandparents, aunts, uncles, friends of the family, teachers, the clergy, local pillars of the community, older friends and neighbours and pretty much anyone else you came into contact with. When I needed advice on losing weight, I asked my mother's best friend rather than my mother. I was taught how to apply make-up when I was twelve by my babysitter. And when my cousin needed to ask about sex, she came to me, not her mother.

Having a nanny, a GOOD nanny, is beneficial for the child. My employer's older children had no nanny, and they are both painfully shy and not used to discipline. Her youngest, who has had me as a nanny since he was nine months old, is incredibly social for his age and very well behaved. I don't think either way is better, nannies and parents should work together for the good of the child.

Anonymous said...

missiechan you sound like a great nanny. As somebody said, it takes a village to raise a child.

Anonymous said...

missiechan,
In the event childcare is a necessity, a good nanny is a godsend.
Or even if a mom just wants a mother's helper, but plans to be the primary caretaker and home most of the time, that's great.
It does take a village to raise a child, but notice that the village you mentioned in your post included your parents, grandparents and a lot of other people who LOVED you.
Nanny can provide the best of care and training and turn out a well behaved socialite. But where is the LOVE? Mom and dad should be giving that,in constant supply, every day.

cali mom (the real one) said...

Of course they should. And most of them do. But who says GOOD nannies don't also love their charges? Only people who've never seen a good nanny. Or who have convinced themselves that no such thing exists.

chick said...

3:42, I'm sorry you have never been able to see how much a nanny can truly love her charges. Lots of us exist, and we do much more than turn out "socialites".

I am also sorry that you can't understand that a parent still loves their child when they leave the house to go to work, and the child still loves the parent.

Presence does not = love. Support, concern, care, emotional attachment, etc. = love. A loving parent can be a WOH/WAH/SAH parent, or any combination of the above.

When you go out without your child, do you stop loving that child?

Anonymous said...

NO, but I love them enough not to be gone all the time too.

And it is probably true that some nannies are good and caring enough to love their charges. I never doubted that. (It is hard to keep from generalizing in such a short space.) Chick, you sound like a fantastic nanny. Ther are some blessed children to have been with you, I'm sure.
But you are not the norm, I fear. It is those situations that are not so ideal as having you, or somebody like you, for which I fear.
There is also the concern for when a family changes nannies and a good,beloved nanny disappears from a child's life. If the mom was pretty available and active in the child's daily life and care, then the child probably undersatnds who the real mom is, has a sufficient bond to the mother, as oppose dot the nanny, and is able, although missing beloved nanny, to understand and cope when she goes away.
But what about loving nanny who takes primary care of a child from birth, or starting in the formative years, with mommy being mostly an evening "visitor?" When nanny goes, the child loses what it has bonded to as most children bond to their mommies. The person who cares for the daily needs of the child is the child's main security and the person who is "mommy" in that child's heart. You may think you are careful in drawing lines and destinctions between mommy and nanny, but to a child, those are concepts that are not possible to fully comprehend. When nanny goes, it's as if it would be if "mommy" died to another child. And if they have nanny after nanny, ability to bond whatsoever is erased from the child's psyche. It's a psychological self defense mechanism.

Missiechan said...

I think it depends on the child too. All children are individuals and cope with different things in different ways.

Example? My best friend.

She was raised by a stay at home mother for years with lots of love and care, when I had a mother who left the home to pursue her career when I was ten. I didn't have a nanny, we spent a few hours in a neighbour's house until my father got home from work. My friend's mother was always at home waiting for the kids up until she was eighteen.

My friend is one of the shyest girls you will ever meet. She can be terribly negative and is a touch agoraphobic and she has almost no concept of personal grooming. I can say she turned out this way because, despite having her mother home with her, she had no-one else besides her father and brother. She didn't make friends easily and she was bullied at school so she had no-one to relate to. There's a lot of damage that I'm trying to help her fix right now but it's hard to get over twenty-two years of isolation.

I turned out just fine, despite being a latchkey kid. So did my brother, who was only six when Mam got her job. He works in a hotel, makes a huge amount of money and has a great social life.

I don't think abandoning your children to the tender mercies of a nanny or a carer will cause them any long term damage, unless of course he nanny is one of the bad eggs. It may toughen them up a bit and teach them that people aren't always around whenever and wherever you need them.

As i say to my Mindee when he asks for his mother "Mummy's gone to talk to lots of people, so I can talk to you!"

chick said...

And let's not forget that there are influences beyond nurture at work here. Nature has a lot to do with how kids turn out - extroverted or introverted, anxious or carefree, tidy or messy, etc., etc., etc.

Do parents and nannies and grandparents and other adults and kids have an influence on how a child develops? Of course. But some stuff is dictated by genetics and brain chemistry.

2 former charges, sisters 2.5 years apart, are a terrific illustration of this. Mom and dad worked: older sister is painfully shy at times, generally sweet and kind as can be, and struggles with anxiety. Younger sister never met a stranger, has a bit of a temper, and struggles with self-control and a little anxiety too. They are TOTAL opposites, raised in the same environment. And guess what? They were BORN like that.

So, if it makes you feel better about your choice to SAH, feel free to believe that your presence is the only influence your child has. But reality shows that's not actually true.

Anonymous said...

I am a SAHM and my kids popped out of the womb exhibiting their own individualpersonalities!

I have learned through trial and error that you can only guide and try to mold...but you have to work with what's there already. Thats why both good and bad parents often end up with a baffling mix of good and bad kids. We're only guides.

Anonymous said...

Hey, what's happening to this blog?
missiechan and chick seem to be great, wise nannies.
11:15 seems to be a level-headed SAHM... thanks for making yourselves heard, I was getting tired of all the crazy talk!

Anonymous said...

I am the 11:15 SAHM. I have learned a lot on this site.

While I firmly believe that a child is best off in the care of a full time mom (unless she is unfit or terribly selfish and neglectful), I do recognize that there are also situations where loving and involved parents can and do work in conjunction with responsible, competent and caring childcare providers to raise confident, well rounded children.

I sincerely wish that was the norm, rather than the exception, but I have seen too many cases that have turned out badly to advocate working without reason when you have children younger than school age. Once they are in school for most of the day, a couple of hours of afterschool care is probably just fine. But when they are small and in the most formative years of their lives, please raise them yourselves mommy, whenever you have the opportunity to do so. Both you and your child will be better for it.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand the reason for your outrage. If you don't like the price, don't hire the nanny.

Anonymous said...

I don't know much about the situation, not having kids, but I'm guessing they ask for higher salaries if health care isn't provided. Corporate jobs generally provide health care. Even with the employee contribution, it's a lot cheaper than it would be to purchase health care on your own. It's been awhile since I changed jobs, but I remember COBRA being $300+ for one month of coverage. And I imagine buying it on your own would be even more expensive than that. If the person has dependents, that's even more of a factor.

Anonymous said...

I work in a childcare center, and many of the employees are college students and young mothers. This kind or work attracts this demographic, so for goodness sake, stop being shocked. Young mothers are especially attracted to childcare positions because of a particular fringe benefit: they can be with their children and earn money too. I agree with the parents about gas, however. Unless you are working in a major metropolitan area, asking for gas money is unacceptable.

One last comment: Stay at home and working mothers really need to stop nagging each other. Really, you make women look bad by fighting. It used to be that women were the teachers of morality and keepers of house and home. Today the image and responsibilities of mothers is changing. Apparently, at the current rate that men are attending college, the last man will graduate from college in the next thirty years. What will women do then? Who will support our families? Honestly, I came from a nuclear, conservative family. My mother stayed at home (and still does). But I will never be like her. I respect her decision, because it was the right thing for her to do. By understanding each others choices we can learn to respect them.

Anonymous said...

Not when they are damaging to children. Those decisions are not respectable.

Anonymous said...

Well, you must be the sanctimonious homemaker. How predictable that you would attack my post.

I respect your decision to stay at home, because you feel it is right for your children. However, I find a fallacy in your argument against working mothers. You have not considered all the possible reasons for their actions nor do you show verifiable implications that working mothers have on a child's development. Sadly, this is not surprising, given that stay at home mothers are prone to ignoring other views of child rearing. Of course, if you don't believe me you can visit: http://books.google.com/books?id=zhYeS6aAn-4C&dq=homemakers+are+not+good+at+raising+children&pg=PA51&ots=R1FgNjDz-U&sig=LaDeW3SsdFVFt_fwzekSUPEpUtU&prev=http://www.google.com/search%3Fhl%3Den%26q%3Dhomemakers%2Bare%2Bnot%2Bgood%2Bat%2Braising%2Bchildren%26btnG%3DGoogle%2BSearch&sa=X&oi=print&ct=result&cd=3&cad=legacy#PPA52,M1
Please feel free to ruminate this compelling study at your leisure.

There is at least one demonstrated quality that sanctimonious mothers cannot teach their children: respect for others.

Anonymous said...

The study is titled, "Work-Family Role Choices for Women in Their 20s and 30s: From College Plans to Life Experiences." The authors are Cherlyn Skromme Granrose and Eileen E.
Kaplan.

Anonymous said...

Don't need to read a study. I see the pathetic, unmistakable results of castaway children everyday.

You're just upset because you know inside that it's true, and you resent the moms here who care more about kids than we do about your fantabulous personal life.

It's called guilt, honey. It comes from knowing you are doing the wrong thing. Familiarize yourself with the concept.

Anonymous said...

So 12:37, were you a castaway child or was your mother just a drug addict?

Anonymous said...

1:28
You are suffering from guilt. let it help guide you to do the RIGHT thing. That's what guilt is for.

Missiechan said...

Well, if all parents decided to stay home and mind their children, I wouldn't have the job I love so much. I'd have to go back out into the nine-to-five retail world and take a job from someone else who needs it. I would feel a certain amount of sympathy for a mother who passes her child to a nanny so she can have personal time because she obviously has no idea how to be a mother, probably has some severe emotional baggage from her own childhood and thinks she is doing a good thing by passing her child on to someone who might do a better job.

How about the mothers who smother their children? I bring my youngest charge to a toddler group on a Monday (his mother hates them so she loves that I offered to do it instead) and there is a woman there, God love her, who has no idea what to do with her son. He is spoiled rotten and incredibly aggressive, he pushed and slapped three babies this week, screamed the house down and refused to apologize when his mother asked him to. Not told, asked. Poor thing cannot bring herself to be stricter with him and I feel so sorry for her. She was heavily pregnant when I first met her and when her son got angry he used to hit her bump! He's the same age as my charge, down to a week, but I would never let little D behave in such a way. What really blows my mind about this is that this woman is at least six years older than I am. I fear her her new baby, he's only two months old and I've already seen her leave him unattended on the couch to look after his brother.

Nobody should feel guilt over hiring a nanny. A child cannot be raised by one person.

Anonymous said...

If your nanny has a child and they can't bring the child with, they will obviously be seeking a higher salary since they must pay for childcare for their own child (or would you prefer the child be sent to the grandparents back in Jamaica). Why is it problematic for a nanny to be caring for two children instead of one. It probably is more interesting for both the children and the nanny that way.

Mom said...

I totally agree.
Although kids like attention from adults, the also really like to play with other kids. Your child owuld always have a playmate. It woul dbe good to get a nanny wiht a child of similar age and temperament, obviously, so your child's life does not become a living hell at the hands of a bully,or with a nanny who unfairly favors her own child. But with some research and thought, I think this sounds like a fantastic idea. And your nanny would likely have a vested interest in doing child centered activities, because she presumably wants the best for her own child as well.

Anonymous said...

There is nothing more devastating for a child than feeling that he is not loved as much as the other kid.
I'd choose daycare over the nanny with child any day.

Mom said...

NO, no no! I have seen a lot more daycare kids than I have nanny kids. Trust me, you don't want to do that unless oyu absolutely HAVE to.

Anonymous said...

More unerpaid nannies in Wisconsin! Another ad found on Craigslist Milwaukee. Posted by the original poster of this thread.

I have a nanny who comes to my home Monday thru Friday from about 7:30 to 5. But her hours are somewhat flexible. She watches my 18 month old daughter, and has for the past year. She has lots of experience as a nanny to infants / toddlers. She does lots of one on one activities with my daughter like drawings, reading, my daughter loves to read, playing with dolls, and cars, and singing. She the not the kind of person who watches tv, and ignores the kids. I know because I used to work from home. She speaks English and Spanish. She does speak more Spanish than English, but can communicate in English. She is college educated, and has studied child development.

My house is clean and I have plenty of toys. I have two playpens that can be used for sleeping or playing in. I also have a crib if your child prefers that(never used because my daughter didn't like cribs)

I think it would be ideal for a 1 year old+ however I know she would be willing to consider all ages. This is a nice alternative to day care. Because I only want her to take care of 1 more child. So there won't be a ton of children to one teacher.

I think price depends on the age of this child but I think somewhere aroound 100 to 150 a week.

email me if you are interested.




Location: Oconomowoc

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