Thursday

Mom Needs the 411 on Nanny's 420

opinion 1
What would you do if you suspected your nanny was smoking marijuana? I cannot be sure, but I am sure if you know what I mean. It's happened 3-4 times where she comes home and smells heavily and in my opinion clearly looks stoned. We asked her to take a drug test before employment, and she passed that. If she is indeed smoking, she is doing it on her own time. Not that it makes it any better, but we live in an area on the country (Pacific NW) where it is pretty socially acceptable. I am at a total loss. She is doing a great job, we love her to death, but I don't want to be clueless either. I also don't want to make a false accusation and end up ruining a good thing and becoming a total ass. Please help!

129 comments:

workingMom said...

I have a zero-tolerance for this. I would fire her immediately, and get her out of my house. (she sounds like a live-in?) And I wouldn't feel bad about it for a minute.

In my opinion, someone who engages in this kind of behavior is too irresponsible to care for my child.

Go ahead an call me a snob, but I find it very stupid, rude and immature to use recreational drugs, pot, or abuse alcohol during one's personal time - no matter WHO you are. I certainly would not tolerate my nanny doing it!

nashville nanny said...

What I do on my "off time", is quite frankly, no one's business. If I want to drink a bottle of wine every night, that's my business. If I want to smoke pot on the weekends, again, my business. (Btw... before you vultures swoop down to attack me... I don't drink, smoke OR use recreational drugs). As long as my personal life never crosses over to my professional life, its none of my boss' beeswax what I do. That being said, if your nanny comes to work hungover, or smelling like pot... and you're SURE it is pot... I would ask her to submit to a random drug testing. When I worked in corporate, they didn't drug test me when they hired me, but at my 6 month review (for no other reason but they could) they did. It came back clean. I wasn't offended. They had a strict "no tolerance" policy (I worked in human services). I wouldn't fly off the handle and fire her like the PP said... that's soooo dramatic. But I would ask her to take a routine drug test. How long has she been working for you?

MissDee said...

I agree with WorkingMom. Drug and alcohol use during work, no matter what kind of work you are in is unacceptable. When one engages in this kind of behavior with children, the consequences can be deadly.

I also agree with Nashville Nanny: our lives are personal, and what we do during our off time is our business. However, like WorkingMom said, someone who engages in this behavior is irresponsible. Really? I love Moscato (wine), and I like to go out with my best friend and go dancing. I drink 4-6 times per year (mainly holidays). If I had a glass of wine every night after work, does that mean I am irresponsible? No. If I went out every weekend and consumed alcohol, does that mean I am irresponsible? Hardly.

An easy way to tell if she is high: look at her eyes. If they look glassy, I would say yes. To a trained nose, one can smell 420. If possible, can you work from home for a few days? If yes, observe her movements from a distance. If she appears to have glassy eyes and rather slow movements, I would say there is a possibility she is high, and even though you love her, you have to do what is best for your child.

Good luck and let us know what happens!

UmassSlytherin said...

Fire her. I would not pay a sitter to watch my child stoned. It is disrespectful of her to come to work high. If you smell pot on her, you don't need to take this any further. You know what it looks like when someone is stoned.

Let her go. Tell her it's not a good match. And then find someone more clean cut to watch your kids.

Lyn said...

There is no way in heck thats okay. She sounds like a live in from your description and if I were her employer i would be nervous about what she was bringing into my home and by proxy around my child. Personally, i am a nanny who in interviews always tells the family that i fully support and will always comply with random drug testing and i, in fact, encourage the interviewers that they should work 1 or 2 random drug tests a year into the contract they and the Nanny they choose draft/sign.
Do i think that drinking/smoking makes a person irresponsible? (And this is coming from a career nanny of over 5 years who has NEVER even tried pot or been drunk before) Absolutely not if done in moderation, on their own time and on/in their own property (not my charges home even if its "my" room). But if it were my children i would rather be safe than sorry.
Sorry for all my spelling and grammatical errors! Phone typing! :)

unicornsparkleprincess said...

Who cares what people do outside of their job? How would you feel if your employer was wondering where or what you were doing when you came home from YOUR job? If you're worried that it's affecting her job and is high while working, then sure...you have reason to be upset. Otherwise, it's not your business, especially since she's doing it of the house (which I presume is the case). Nothing against alcohol, but being a nanny who smokes AFTER work is better than one who drinks a ton after work because then you have a hangover issue, which does bleed into work the next day.

unicornsparkleprincess said...

@WorkingMom
How is it rude? That's poor word choice. Sounds like someone needs to toke up themselves....

Rosalie said...

a lot of these commenters have sadly bought into the bullshit war on drugs line on marijuana. if MB wants to follow their advice, she'll be needlessly getting rid of a nanny that she says is doing a great job.

it's not any of her business what her nanny does on her own time. if she is smoking and/or stoned when she is with your children, this is a totally different thing, and definitely grounds for firing. and if she were a live out, this would not even be an issue.

case in point: i nannied for a year and i smoked pot regularly during that time (still do). NEVER in a million years would i dream of coming into worked stoned. that's stupid and unprofessional and quite frankly dangerous.

does smoking pot make me a bad person? no. for those of you who have in your head the idea of a stoner, i run my own business and i have a master's degree. and i smoke pot. and the world doesn't explode. get over yourselves. nannies don't get to forfeit their private lives because of their line of work.

Ellen said...

@Rosalie

Thank you for this comment! Couldn't agree more.

Phoenix said...

OP would you think bad about your nanny if she drank alcohol on her own time? No? It is worse than weed. Way worse. So bad that I honestly think that alcohol should be illegal. But its not because the gov't likes their money.

Also what your nanny does in her house on her own time is none of your business. Do you live in a state that allows medical marijuana cards? Your nanny may have one. As long as she isn't smoking on the job it is none of your concern. Just like people can't drink on the job she can't smoke on the job. You need to get real. And butt out of her personal life. Just because you think its wrong doesn't mean that you have the right to tell other people how to live or what to do.

Phoenix said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Phoenix said...

and btw I have a medical marijuana card but I do not smoke. I have one because my husband who also holds a medical card is a smoker. I have one so that I can legally be around it although I don't like to smoke it. My husband has been smoking pot since he was 12 years old. He has his own business and is VERY responsible. It is not a bad thing in the least. People need to get over it

UmassSlytherin said...

Rosalie,

It does not make you a bad person if you smoke pot. But I would not hire a stoner nanny or babysitter. Pot makes you lazy. It makes you slow. It effects your judgement and reflexes. For all these reasons, I would not want my nanny, pediatrician, child's bus driver, teacher, etc. to be stoned while with my child.

If you were my computer technician and were de-bugging my PC, that would be a different story. But when it comes to our kids, we have the right to be picky.

No potheads for me, please.

Dr. Juris said...

I'm of the mindset that if you don't have a medical card (or obtained said card for fraudulent reasons), it's illegal and that's the end of it.

Phoenix said...

ummm... pot doesn't make you slow. it affects everyone differnt and there are higher grades of pot now that are more "uppers" my husband runs 10 miles a day and hes a boxer. He is not slow or lazy by any means. That is a very big misconception and everyone who smokes pot isn't "stoned" After a while the person isn't affected as strongly as they were when they first started. They do get used to the affects. so if you don't know what you are talking about, don't say anything

UmassSlytherin said...

I know what I'm talking about. lol. I went to UMass. And when you smoke pot, you get slow and lazy. You have been selling this argument for as long as I have been reading this blog, Phoenix, and we're not buying it. :)

Anonymous said...

OP here -

Thank you all for your comments. Just for clarification:

1. Our nanny lives in. The instances where this has happened have "technically" been on her off hours, for example, she comes home at the end of the day with the kids, leaves for a while, then returns with a friend, and it's pretty obvious.

2. I have no desire to monitor her personal life. On the other hand, if she is using, no matter how nosy I don't want to be, if she is unsafe or makes a poor choice, it might end up overflowing into our lives.

3. I have never used, so I really have no comparison. I do drink socially.

4. As I mentioned in my post, a lot of people smoke in the area, my husband's company will not even do random drug tests (and they are a large, worldwide co) because they fear losing a good chunk of staff.

5. I guess I cannot be sure, but @ her age, I am pretty sure she doesn't have a medical card.

It's more of an inner turmoil situation for me. Do what you need to do on your own time. But in fairness to us, she does spend some time hanging out with us and with our social network, which she is welcome to and we enjoy, however I need to make sure that I am not creating an environment where she feels like pretty much anything is fair game because we are pretty easy going, does that make sense? Is there a way to casually address it, or make it clear that I don't want it happening in my house without being a total ass? She came back to babysit on Tues night (we pay hourly for extra, but still super cool of her) and part of me wanted to text her something along the lines of "No stoned babysitters please." But that seems crazy too!!! UGH

UmassSlytherin said...

OP, you are not being crazy. Do you think you deserve the best for your children? Do you think you are capable in deciding what is best for them? Let this girl go. Find another nanny and when you are interviewing nannies be up front about how you don't want them coming to work stoned or being stoned in YOUR home.

Take charge, mama. Do the right thing for your kids.

UmassSlytherin said...

Also, do you really want someone in charge of your children, transporting them and living in your home who may possibly be in possession of illegal substances? It is a huge liability for you, in my opinion.

You want pot in your home or anywhere near your kids?

420 Friendly said...

What are the liabilities of having illegal activities going on in your home?

Pot is mind-altering -- do you want to risk that your Nanny could be caring for your children while in an altered state?

Those would be my only two concerns.

BTW I smoked pot for years and have no problem with it; in fact I strongly believe it should be perfectly legal. It is certainly less destructive than alcohol.

Calhoun said...

For those of you who keep wanting tobring up the tired pot alcohol argument I would have just as much of an issue if my nanny showed up to work looking drunk.

Maybe I'm uptight but I think the rules are a bit different when you're a live in nanny as far as personal time goes.


OP if you have a problem with the pot that is your right as has been mentioned even if your state is pretty pot friendly you could still end up in legal trouble by association if that's not a risk you want let her go. You can even tell her why. Hire a new nanny and make your stance clear doesn't need to be dramatic.

calcuLATER said...

Honestly, if she weren't a live in you probably never would have noticed this, and thus never would have had an issue with it.

And UMass, pot doesn't make you slow and lazy and affect your judgment ALL THE TIME. Do you know how marijuana works? Smoking weed once or twice a week does not put you into a permanent state of being stoned. It makes you have those qualities WHILE YOU SMOKE.

Honestly, I don't see the issue with this. If your nanny wants to smoke on her free time, when she is not in charge of your kids, then look the other way. She is a great nanny.

Just because she hits a joint with her friends 3-4 times after work doesn't mean shes transporting bags of drugs, or dealing drugs with your children around or any other ludicrous example people have given here. Chances are, she is going to a friends house and smoking a bit of their weed.

Would you prefer she come home stumbling drunk at night? And then wake up cranky and exhausted, with a huge headache, maybe even still a little drunk, and reeking of old liquor to spend the day with your kids?

Or would you rather she come home after your kids are asleep, maybe looking a little stoned and smelling a bit like weed, and then going to bed. The next day when she wakes up early to take care of your children she is alert and energetic and a great nanny.

Weed is socially acceptable. Some of the most wonderful and talented people in the world smoke it. Just look the other way.

MissMannah said...

I'll start this off with the disclaimer that I am completely 420 friendly and I think weed should be legal in all forms. But the fact of the matter is: it is not. In some states it is legal for medicinal purposes but it does not sound like this nanny is using medicinal. So she is breaking the law, plain and simple. If she was a live-out, it would be a different story, OP would have no idea, it would be no problem. But this nanny lives in, and as a result the children may see her stoned at some point. That is no ok in my book. The nanny is supposed to be a role model at all times and exemplifying the parents' ideals, and I doubt this is one of them. In my opinion, if nanny wants to use, she needs to live-out. And if she is bringing any weed into their home, she needs to be fired. OP, I suggest having a frank discussion with your nanny.

Phoenix said...

UmassSlytherin Pot doesnt make someone anything unless they are already that way. I have been around people who smoke my entire life. And never have they ever been slow or lazy. That is the worst misconception and only idiots view it as such. You don't know what you are talking about. I don't know where you get your information from

Phoenix said...

also you can't just assume she doesn't have a medical card because of her age. Doctors give the cards to people who have depression or pain. so she could have either one and that is also not any of your business. The only time you should have a problem with it is if its getting in the way of her job or she is smoking on the job or smoking in your house. You have every right to say she can't smoke near your home. But if she is doing it away from the house on her own time and not bringing it into the home and it is not around your kids, then you shouldn't have a problem with it. As long as it is not hurting her job, your kids, or endagnering your kids or home then don't worry about it. When it becomes a problem you will know it. Also lots of people smoke to wind down and sometimes people need it to be calm. She may be an anxious person by nature and without it she could be unpleasant to be around. I have seen people like this as well.

Come on! said...

I understand the deilema here however I don't feel that what a nanny does in her free time is of an employers concern period! This is the exact reason I keep my marriage and my personal life VERY private from my employers. Now I have never smoked pot or done drugs but I can see how even the slightest misunderstanding can be taken the wrong way by the employers. For instance their son saw my tattoo on my bottom when we were using the bathroom at the museum and he asked what bit was, I told him it was a bruise. My fear was it would get back to his parents who are pretty uptight and I was worried they would be appalled. I'm so tired of families being able to do what they want when they want but heaven forbid a nanny be human and have a personal life! I once saw my boss drive around her complex with her kid on her lap and that was okay but if I did that (I would never of course,) I would be arrested for child endangerment!

Bottom line is, since she lives in Mayberry clarify "home" rules, meaning where and when she leaves on HER time is her business and if while she lives in your home no drugs or alcohol in her possession since it's your home you can tell her she cannot have drugs or alcohol in your home period. But if she wants to hit up the bars and smoke weed till 12am fine, but as long as she comes to work ready to take on the day. As long as she stays professional and does her job well and how you ask that's all she is required to do. Her life is her business. Let me ask you this OP if you and your hubby decide to have another child are you going to consult your nanny first? Of course not! You are not the only one who gets to live a life on your terms!

Come on! said...

Sorry my iPhone has auto correct I meant "in your home you should clarify some rules with her."

nycmom said...

Posted with the links, but it keeps getting deleted. So I'll have to leave them out or try posting them creatively later.

I would never continue to employ a caregiver who was chronically using any drugs, even (if I was somehow informed) prescription pain meds. This is an area of interest for me and one I have researched and treated a lot.

Also, I have tried most substances and used pot heavily in college. I do not think it is benign and the literature supports my views. I do think it should be legal and that risks are no worse than alcohol. But I don't think daily pot use is healthy or without consequences.

It has been well-established by now that chronic MJ use causes both short term memory and attentional deficits AND long-term problems that persist when people are no longer intoxicated. It doubles the risk of traffic accidents.

I'll try to post an abstract or two for each point from a reputable journal. Yes, there have been the occasional contradictory study, but the information I am presenting is the majority, though it is definitely an area needing more studies.

Using during adolescence is even more concerning due to the developing brain. Recent concerns and data supports that using adolescent MJ use (but not adolescent alcohol use actually) causes cognitive deficits similar to heavy, long-term adult use.

Even scarier to me is that more and more studies are showing that early cannabis use can not only hasten onset of Schizophrenia (and other psychotic illnesses), but possible increase the risk of developing them at all. Several good studies have controlled for the knee jerk response that those with predisposition to mental illness are self-medicating.

Same goes for both early and long-term cannabis use increasing risk for depression (controlling for self-med hypothesis):

We certainly know cannabis affects sleep patterns and that there IS a withdrawal phase with significant sleep disruption (among other symptoms).

Lots of data that the response to cannabis varies significantly between individuals. I know for me, using daily meant poor sleep, irritability if I could not smoke when I wanted to, definite memory impairment, increased appetite, decreased motivation, low energy, etc. This is true for many, though certainly not everyone.

Nonetheless, the nanny who is smoking heavily enough that OP is smelling it on her and Nanny is not even careful enough to make reasonable attempts to hide it, is not a nanny I want around my kids.

This isn't about pot vs alcohol. This isn't about me being anti-drugs. It's about me being experienced personally and clinically and knowing that social use of alcohol and pot are fine and none of my business in an employee. But I strongly suspect this nanny is beyond social use, but if not she is certainly not bright enough to keep it discreet.

I wouldn't want the legal risks. But first and foremost, I would not want to take any chance that this nanny would smoke "just a little" while caring for or driving around my kids. Everyone who actively smokes minimizes its effects, bar none, as seen on this thread. They have poor insight into thread.

OP, if you love her, have a no holds barred talk. Say you know she has been using and you have a zero tolerance policy for her coming home intoxicated as a live-in. It is certainly her right to do as she chooses on her free time (legal risks aside), but as the mother you also have the right to set limits on what you want your kids to see. Does she also have the right to bring home random men on her nights off? After all, it is her free time and her private room. Are you okay with her getting falling down drunk to the point of falling over and vomiting? Again, her time, her rights. But your kids will see all this and they will know.

StrawberryShortKakes said...

I don't care if anyone thinks I have a stick up my butt but I personally think smoking of any kind isn't acceptable. All the people who say their clothes "don't smell" or they "only smoke outside," give me a break. I know we aren't talking about cigarettes here but I definitely judge the responsibility of someone who smokes, given that it is obvious that your risks of cancer, second hand smoke, etc are sky high. Is it really worth it? As far as pot goes, it is illegal (unless laws have changed that I don't know about) and I would definitely question someone's responsibility if they are willingly doing something illegal.

I think that what people do on their time away from work is their business. The key is... keep it your business! When people start doing "risky" things, I think it is justified that the employers get a little worried. I am not an angel, I do drink occasionally but it is legal and I don't talk about my drinking at work. If I went to work (I'm not a nanny) and started talking about my drinking to my coworkers, although it was on my time off, it is just not appropriate. Drinking on my time is completely fine but obviously my employers would be worried if I talked about it. It would make it appear that I am not responsible. Bottom line, don't do it or don't let your employers find out :)

Phoenix said...

I don't see how anyone can drink. with all the research out there today. Women who drink have a 30% increase of getting breast cancer because alcohol acts directly on estrogen. So i view anyone who drinks as a bad example, and not to mention someone who wants to demolish their body and mind. DUI is the leading cause of traffic accidents and death. The only reason pot isn't legal federally is because Nixon went on a spree about being "anit-drug" for his campaign regardless of the research that weed was safe. It's safer than drinking its safer than cigarettes its safer than prescription pain meds. Doctors wouldn't advocate smoking weed if they felt is was unhealthy. I've never found a doctor who said it was bad.
I would be 10 times happier to know an employee of mine was smoking pot rather than drinking on their off time. as long as its done off the clock.

MM nanny said...

I'm sure I'm going to scare a lot of moms but I feel my story needs to be told. I'm a nanny and have been for 15 years. I have a degree in child development and have built up an amazing reputation. I also smoke medical marijuana on a daily basis. I have a medical marijuana license so it is completely legal. I only smoke when I get home from work and right before bed. I've had chronic pain most of my life and multiple back surgeries. My bosses know that I smoke and are completely fine with it. They know I love their children and would NEVER do anything to hurt them. Plus, as the mom brought up, she would totally be able to tell if I was stoned when I came to work.

workingMom said...

"I find it very stupid, rude and immature to use recreational drugs, pot, or abuse alcohol during one's personal time - no matter WHO you are."

The nanny is a live-in; it is rude for her to come stoned to the MB's home, where the MB's children are, in that state.

And there is a difference between having a drink or two every weekend (at your own house), and getting drunk every weekend. The latter is alcohol abuse.

I have seen the long-term effects of pot, drug, and alcohol abuse and how it destroys lives first-hand. While I generally agree that what one does on one's own time, in one's own house, is nobody's business, I just cannot extend that outlook to this topic - especially when the user is responsible for children. The behavior has just too much potential for destruction.

Anonymous said...

OP Here -

I brought it up to her, about as casually and non confrontational as I could, pretty much said "Hey, what you do on your own time is totally your deal, but I can't have you coming home baked, and it's pretty obvious that when you." And she kind of freaked, denied it, and said her feelings were hurt and that she feels like we don't trust her. :(

I told her it wasn't meant as an accusation so much as a heads up of, what you do is up to you, we love you, we think you are doing a great job, but if you are choosing to do that, these are the boundaries we need you to respect.

Hopefully she understands.

UmassSlytherin said...

It is so funny how people who smoke pot don't think it effects their behavior or that people can totally tell when you are high.

I also believe that people who smoke pot regularly are self-medicating, which usually indicates problems with depression, anxiety, socialization, etc.

Some people just cannot be alone with themselves without drugs and it's sad to me.

Dr. Juris said...

I'd have to run stats, Phoenix, but the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has reported that 31% of driving fatalities were the result of alcohol impairment. Additionally, I haven't found anything suggesting a 30% increase in breast cancer due to alcohol consumption, although there have been recent studies that suggest a link between the two.

Dingo said...

As a nanny who occasionally partakes in recreational smoking, I say just bring it up casually and ask.
If she's -coming home- this way, on her own time, that's her business, but you're 100% right to want to be in the loop if she lives in your house! Hell, even if she doesn't.
I have a really close open honest communication relationship with my MB and DB and they both know that I smoke every now and again, but that I'd NEVER come to work impaired in the slightest.

Funny little story said...

I used to work for a family and the dad would smoke weed..well one day one of the other nannies was starving and she noticed some muffins in the freezer..she eats half of one and realizes there's something wrong with it..it had weed in it..the poor nanny only worked there 1 night a week and was worried she would be drug tested at her real job...not to mention that she was really sick and out of it that night. Also what if someone fed a muffin to the kids?

Just in case said...

I don't know if anyone brought this up yet (too many comments), but when you go to acupuncture places where they make herbal medicine, it smells like marijuana. I know this because when I was in high school, I used to go get acupuncture done about once a week and I always came out smelling like marijuana.

nycmom said...

MM Nanny,

It was brave of you to share your story.

However, your actions remain illegal under federal law which supersedes any state laws. What you are doing is not "completely legal" and you should know this. This issue has been addressed and clarified at the Supreme Court level. Federal law enforcement can prosecute you for any amount of possession or use for any reason.

In reality, the federal admin under Obama has been fairly open that they will turn a blind eye. But that doesn't change the law or what will happen under the next president.

Finally, your situation is different from OP's as you are not a live-in and do not arrive in front of the children intoxicated.

Phoenix,

Your argument is simplistic and flawed on many levels. This is not a debate about alcohol vs tobacco vs MJ. Being intoxicated at work is wrong. Period. I agree that MJ is not an evil drug. However, it is not benign. It absolutely has health consequences. It increases rates of airway disease esp bronchitis. Several studies have also shown increased rates of lung, head and neck cancers though RCS are hard given the frequent co-occurence of tobacco use. In my last post, I detailed the clear long-term cognitive risks and the likely risk of increased mental health illness also. Even more scary is some preliminary data showing that use of MJ while pregnant may cause increased rates of childhood cancers and leukemia (more research needed).

Finally, yes, alcohol increases risk of breast cancer. However, rare use or even one drink/day only increase the risk by 4%. Actually, heavy alcohol use can increase BC risk by as much as 40-50% in addition to significant risk increases in a whole host of other cancers too! However, I don't get the logic of trying to prove MJ is good by showing something else is worse. Armed robbery is bad, but murder is worse. That doesn't make armed robbery any better.

Many doctors will tell you chronic MJ use is bad. Some are staunchly opposed to any recreational substance use. Certainly, very few advocate regular MJ use except in situations such as MMNannys (which we can safely assume is not OP's nanny's situation).

MJ is most certainly NOT safer than ALL prescription meds. That is way, way too broad and inaccurate a generalization. It is safer than many, less safe than some, much less safe than many abused prescription meds such as benzos (death) or opiates.

MissMannah said...

Nycmom, I believe you've said on here before that you are a doctor. If I'm correct, do you mind telling us what kind you are? Because the claim you have made here that marijuana can increase the risk of mental illness can be considered very offensive to those of us in the mental illness community, not to mention that claim sounds very ignorant. Will you please post a link to this study? I would very much like to read it. Sure, any mind-altering substance can leave you vulnerable to mental illness, but the defining factor is going to be if you were predisposed to it to begin with. Many mentally ill people can use pot to help themselves deal with their illness, "self-medicating", if you will, and have been very successful in doing so.

UmassSlytherin said...

Miss Mannah,
No doctor would ever prescribe pot for depression or mental illness because it is a DEPRESSANT.
If you are self-medicating yourself with pot, it is not going to help you at all.
I am offended by your constantly being offended.

Wendi said...

I agree that pot is less destructive vs. alcohol, however I would not want a drunk to watch my child either.

If she was not a live-in, I wouldn't care what she did in her off time, however since she lives with you, she should not be doing that. She should respect your home. If she were to get high, she could at least use some Visine drops or something. Sheesh....

Just My Two Cents Just Now said...

If she was living out, it would be a whole different story. However since she is living in YOUR house, under YOUR rules..then I think she should not be smoking dope. I personally think she is clueless to be doing it considering she knows you will see her when she comes home.

I agree that she is entitled to do whatever she wants when she is off duty, however she lives with you and needs to respect your rules. Bottom line.

It's a personal choice, but me personally would not want someone who smokes weed to watch my kids. I wouldn't want to take the chance that she would ever use or be blazed during her shift.

Just my opinion....

too early to want to vomit.... said...

to the comment @ MM "I'm offended by your constantly being offended".. all I can say is BUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA I LOVEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IT!!!! Will Phoenix and MM puh-lease shut the hell up?!?! Between the two of you, there isn't a complete brain.

Christine said...

I don't have time to read the previous comments right now, but wanted to throw my opinion into the pot. I am neither for or against weed. I have smoked a handful of times, each ending on negative results. I also don't like alcohol.. But I have a lot of good friends who partake in the use of both. It doesn't affect or offend me. However, weed is illegal and I don't believe it should be tolerated in a professional setting. If she wasn't live in, it would be different. By choosing to be such an interested part of your household I believe she should act in a non offensive manor. There are so many boundaries that are easily crossed when sharing your private quarters for both employers and employees. I think you handle te situation well and if she wants to go out for a weekend and stay with a friend and spend the entire one flying, go for it. The second it is notable to you or brought around her place of employment is when it has crossed one of the all too delicate boundaries, in my opinion. Sorry about all the typos, stupid iPhone!

UmassSlytherin said...

You really cannot trust someone who smokes weed regularly (and is most likely purchasing it) to care for your kids or live in your home. They would, at some point, be holding. What if, for instance, the nanny were transporting the children and got pulled over and the cop smelled weed and found some on her? I believe it would be at the worst traumatizing for the children and at the very least scary for them to have their nanny arrested and have to go to the police station.

It just doesn't make sense. OP: you did the right thing. I would just go ahead and find another nanny. You don't have to explain yourself to anybody on this one.

workingMom said...

missmannah,

(in laymen's terms, because I am NOT a doctor:) Mental illness is due to chemical imbalance and electrical 'misfiring' in the brain. Smoking pot chemically alters the brain and damages key 'connections'. Permanently.

Smoking pot will affect some people more seriously than others, depending on their DNA and other biological factors. This is also why some medications work, work better, or don't work at all on different individuals.

How is stating logical, medical information offensive?

I believe in previous posts nycmom has indicated that she is a surgeon. Calling her recitation of noted medical information 'ignorant' is offensive. She was especially gracious in sharing her own history of pot use as well, and I think she knows what she's talking about.

NannyKate said...

UMassSlytherin:

Please stop talking about things you have NO idea about. My husband is prescribed medical marijuana for depression and anxiety and I have had doctors try to prescribe it to me before as well but I do not like to smoke. You are ridiculous and it's honestly offensive to everyone who smokes that you think you know what you're talking about. You don't and are a classic example of government propaganda about drug use.

Phoenix, I love you. Just an FYI.

MaryPoppin'Pills said...

nycmom,

Your links were posted in both e-mails. I am not sure why they didn't show up in your comments... but I have re-posted them here for you.

Thank you for your research.

-----------------------------

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11879109

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11879109

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20621421

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17662880

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14616175

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19012815

e04aac94-0132-11e1-870a-000f20980440 said...

My husband got crushed by a truck 7 years ago and broke 7 bones in his rib cage and had compound fractures in his shoulder, paranoid suffering from nightmares because of the accident and depressed and in pain all of the time. He is allergic to opiets and allergic to most chemicals so he can't go on pain meds He smokes pot (we live in NJ) and pot has Helped him significantly.
I am a mothers helper for 3 children and I have a slipped disc in my back and most pain killers do not help me. I smoke pot to (as a medical useage) and I can go on with my day.
Pot depending on situations can be bad or good. I have seen a lot of people who should not be smoking because they act like stonads! but at the same point if you smoke it because you need it and don't abuse it (like how you shouldn't abuse alchol) then its alright. It's just like the old question which came first the chicken or the egg. Yeah we will always have people who are for or against and some people who are caught up in propoganda.

MM nanny said...

UMass: You really think someone who smokes marijuana always has it on them? I smoke daily yet I never take it anywhere with me. Maybe a stoner/pothead would, but most people who smoke are not like that! I in no way put my charges in danger by smoking in the evenings when I get home. Please stop starting your opinion as if it's fact. You really are ignorant!

Tales from the (Nanny)Hood said...

Op, I am sorry to hear that your discussion with your LI nanny didn't go well. FTR, I think that as a LI, she needs to respect your house rules about drinking and drug use.

If you have another chance to talk with her, I would apologize for making assumptions (which will hopefully soothe her hurt feelings) and then just say you realized you had never covered this issue with her when she started with you, and that you want her to know the "house rules".

Of course, you have to decide what the rules are, and only you and your DH can do that. FWIW, my inclination would be to say that possessing pot at your home is absolutely not allowed, for legal reasons. That leaves her the leeway to use whatever she wishes to use (booze/pot) outside of your home, but lets her know she will be gone if she keeps pot in the house. And the obvious, "Caring for the kids while under the influence of anything is not acceptable."

Manhattan Nanny said...

OP,
You state that you live in an area where smoking is wide spread and fairly acceptable. As a young single person, your nanny probably finds it difficult to have any kind of social life without joining in the joint passing so to speak. I know when I was in college smokers could be downright hostile when you passed it up.

If you do decide to let her go over this, I think you're best bet for a smoke free nanny is an older live out nanny with teenage kids whom she does not want smoking.

Dingo said...

"You really cannot trust someone who smokes weed regularly (and is most likely purchasing it) to care for your kids or live in your home. They would, at some point, be holding. What if, for instance, the nanny were transporting the children and got pulled over and the cop smelled weed and found some on her?"

Pardon the language, but fuck that noise. I understand the stoner stereotype, but seriously? The more I read the commentary on this blog the more disgusted I get with people as a whole. I dunno how a lot of you can be nannies, you have such ignorant close-minded standpoints about so many things, and if anyone disagrees, you run circles catching your own tail saying the same thing over and over again even though you weren't any more right the first time you said it. Sometimes these blog comments are a little too much like high school drama all over again.

nycmom said...

Miss Mannah,

Glad to share and thanks to MPP for reposting the links above. I'll put all links now at the bottom with labels so MPP can kindly repost if needed. If I can access full text, I will. If not abstract.

I am actually a psychiatrist and have at var1ious times worked extensively in homeless outreach, substance abuse clinics, geri clinics, private practice and ERs. My love is community based psychiatry (i.e. more severe mental illness, not therapy).

workingMom,
Good memory! Actually it is my husband that is the surgeon, though not practicing in that area now (TMI about my personal life, apologies).

I honestly cannot conceive of how presenting current theories, increasingly supported by evidence regarding mental illness as "offensive." It may be unfounded and you certainly can/should expect some evidence. You can disagree. You can find opposing studies. But it is certainly not offensive to suggest substance abuse contributes to mental illness!

The role of cannabis in the development of psychotic disorders, specifically schizophrenia is not a new theory, but it has been gaining increasing respect as there is a fair amount of supportive data. As in much of psychiatry, it is not conclusive. We can't do randomized controlled studies on this! I doubt we will ever be 100% sure, but it is certainly something we can try to control and limit for in vulnerable populations. Recent studies have done well in controlling for the idea I raised and you echoed -- that patients are self-medicating. It is clear now this cannot explain the correlations away.

Schizophrenia is a a complicated illness and consensus is the causes are multifactorial: a combination of genetics and life events (everything from prenatal infections to hypoxia to head injury to cannabis use). The diathesis-stress model is generally used these days. I in no way believe cannabis use alone causes schizophrenia. I believe it is one of many factors that may increase risk of developing schizophrenia in an already vulnerable individual with several of the other factors above. You absolutely have to have other predisposing factors, and I never claimed otherwise.

Concordance for schizophrenia among monozygotic twins has been found to be 40-50%; dizygotic twins 5-10%. Thus, it is clear there IS a genetic component, but also clear that other factors MUST be involved.

MM you wrote: "Sure, any mind-altering substance can leave you vulnerable to mental illness, but the defining factor is going to be if you were predisposed to it to begin with." Well, yes, of course. Again, I have never said "if you smoke pot, you will get schizophrenia/depression." I said MJ increases the risk of developing schizophrenia/depression, esp if used in adolescence or heavily.

You said: "Many mentally ill people can use pot to help themselves deal with their illness, 'self-medicating', if you will, and have been very successful in doing so." Yes, they do. The comorbidity of substance abuse and other mental illness is HUGE. For many, many years we have used the self-medicating hypothesis. I have no doubt that is true for some patients. I also have no doubt that for the vast majority, using drugs is bad for their prognosis. It increases symptom severity, duration, relapses and decreases med compliance. There is the rare person with significant mental illness who "benefits" from using MJ, but actual data suggests it is a bad choice for most. My personal experience in outpatient, day treatment, and ER supports this. Patients' illnesses are exacerbated when they use drugs or alcohol. I can't realistically post a link for every drug with every mental illness, but I'll post a few.

tbc (cause I talk too much :)

nycmom said...

Now for depression. The evidence here is more controversial and less robust, but still there is good data to support that early, late and regular MJ use increases later risk of depression. It is likely dose dependent though studies have varied on this.

I have been unable to find convincing data to support the idea that cannabis use increases risk of anxiety disorders.

To summarize, I personally don't think smoking MJ occasionally in the right setting is a big deal. I do think heavy daily use is problematic medically and psychiatrically barring true medical needs (appetite stimulation and pain coming to mind), but I would say the same for all mind-altering substances legal or not. I also think people are kidding themselves if they think MJ is a benign drug; that no one can tell when they are stoned; that they function the same stoned or sober; or that it's okay to do this around kids.

And next will be links if they post, if not hopefully MPP can repost.

seeareuh said...

Marijuana is not actually a depressant proper, as it does a mix of things. It's also a stimulant and a hallucinogen.

"If you do decide to let her go over this, I think you're best bet for a smoke free nanny is an older live out nanny with teenage kids whom she does not want smoking."
Would like to say that my mom, who is fifty two, smokes occasionally because she has a bad back. It helps her more than Vicodin because she's built a tolerance after twenty years of being prescribed the drug.

I think everybody missed where OP responded, as well. You handled it well, just make sure she knows that you still love the work she's doing! The bottom line is that she lives in your home and if you don't want people under the influence of pot in your home at all, you definitely have the right to ask her to not be home while she is high, same goes for being drunk.

According to a study on whether or not marijuana contributes to the risk of developing lung cancer by Patricia A Weiss, RN (I'd link you to the article but it's an academic journal and not accessible unless you have a membership to EBSCOHOST or something like it, "biological evidence shows changes to lung tissue that could theoretically progress to lung cancer, however, an evidence base does not exist that directly links marijuana inhalation to to risk for lung cancer. ... No definitive link has been found at this time." There may be a correlation, but those who know anything about psychology know that correlation does not prove causation.

To be completely honest, I'm an excellent nanny and have zero doubts about abilities as a child care provider, but I have been known to smoke on occasion. Mostly for pain (I used to be in drumline and I carried a 40lb drum on my shoulders for four years in high school which led to wicked back problems) but when I do, it's after work, in my own home. The side effects last long enough to relax my muscles, alleviate some pain, and make it easier to pass out hard when the pain wouldn't let me before. Now, I have not smoked in five months (the last time I did was after my dad died and my cousins [and uncles, actually] and I all smoked to alleviate stress) so I would pass a drug test right now, but that isn't to say that I don't intend to occasionally smoke in the future.

I think it's rude to insist that those who smoke are irresponsible as a whole because they're doing something illegal. I don't think marijuana should be illegal, I think alcohol should, but I'm not irresponsible just because I drink. Many people break the law without even thinking about it. Ever driven without shoes? Illegal. Ever driven, turned right, but not gotten into the broken line bike lane to do so? Illegal. (Well, those two are illegal in California at least). And yes, these don't alter your state of mind, but my point is that people break the law sometimes. And I think marijuana is definitely different than driving laws, but if I want to break the law, when I'm not at work, when I'm with my family, when I have complete control over myself and my surroundings, with marijuana, that should be fine. I would never ever ever ever in a million years go to work under the influence of anything besides medication that does not affect my work.

seeareuh said...

^The point I was making about my mom: she has three children, me (twenty one), an eighteen year old, and a fourteen year old.

nycmom said...

seeareuh,

I appreciate you providing a reference, though it is hard to evaluate without even the abstract.

The area of cannabis' effects on lung function and cancers is also fairly new. The article you cited was from 2006. I can find several studies (not reviews) since then that show heavy cannabis does increase the risk of lung cancer. I am not going to post anymore links since I'm tired and they don't post right away. I agree with reviews that data is not yet sufficient to be definitive, but we will get there. It is very hard to study given confounding with tobacco. MJ is definitely less carcinogenic than tobacco. But it also definitely has carcinogens. I can't imagine how daily inhalation of smoke with carcinogens could NOT increase your risk of inflammation and cancer. Now if you are eating pot brownies, that is another story!

MaryPoppin'Pills said...

nycmom has left a new comment on your post "Mom Needs the 411 on Nanny's 420":

LINKS

Using MJ with schizophrenia worsens long-term prognosis:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20478874

Using MJ with Bipolar DO worsens long-term prognosis:
http://www.tijdschriftvoorpsychiatrie.nl/en/issues/425/articles/8154

One of the seminal studies linking cannabis use as a causal factor in Schizophrenia and its full text. It is a good article and interesting read as it fairly addresses the limitations:
http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/184/2/110.full

Cannabis use increases risk of depression:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915487/?tool=pubmed

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2915487/?tool=pubmed

http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=175214

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17624975

The Lancet's review (can't get full text here sorry):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17662880

The Lancet's summary of effects of MJ, again just an abstract:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19837255



Posted by nycmom to I saw your nanny at Apr 13, 2012 3:10:00 PM

Phoenix said...

ok. weed. lets see. i have a medical license though I don't smoke. i was prescribed the medication because i am a chornic pain patient and it is intended to helps with depression. It is a depressant yes but that is different than depression. if you are unaware depress is a term to mean relax or lower. It lowers your mood but it does not cause depression. If you think that you are a moron. That is not how it works and also there are many types of depression. Manic and bi-polar are two types that benefit significantly from marijuana. i have a license to grow it as well. And I do. Since my state doesn't allow dispenseries yet we have to grow our own medidcal grade marijuana. And we do. I am not sure where people are getting their information from regarding this subject but being that some are ignorant they don't quite understand how to absorb information if it goes against their own opinion. Science is science and I have seen pot treat people with significant issues. My father is one of them. He had an accident before I was born where he fell three stories and landed on a cement slab. he broke nearly every bone in his body. He can't be on pain pills so he has so smoke pot and it has helped him so much. My friend who has mental illness benefits from it as well as one of my friends who is severly epileptic. i had a doctor the other day state I should smoke but I can't get past that being too high feeling so i don't.
Pot does make me useless. i can't even talk if I smoke so i haven't touched the stuff in years. I have no desire to smoke it. my husband has been smoking since he was 12 and he isn't affected that strongly by it anymore. It treats everyone different and it is an amazing MEDICATION.
Just because I choose to not be closed off to what reality is doesn't make me wrong. If people would open their damn eyes and open up their damn brains they would be able to see past their fat ego. The Earth is filled with things that you just won't agree with but to inflict your judgment on people who do not agree with your assinine opinion doesnt make you queen of the know-it-alls. It makes you the jester of the court of stupid. Not everything is black and white and news flash we live in a society where your opinion does not matter. I hate judgmental people. I hate it that people look down on others because they believe something different. I do not judge people. I respect that other people are stupid and I shake my head that they for some reason can't seem to get a grip. You act like you are holier than thou just because you feel that when someone does something against your own desires that makes them bad. Also just because our fucked up gov't thinks weed is bad that doesn't mean that it is. They just can't profit it from it. That is it! Just comes down to money. Alcohol is a sin to this people. It destroys families and it destroys lives. it is absolute poison. But I don't care that people drink. I choose not to. but i won't sit there telling someone who does drink that its wrong. It is their life. It only becomes my problem if it affects my family directly.
If you don't agree with someones personal choices keep it to yourself. I don't know who the fuck you are trying to impress.

marijuana has been shown to yes increase lung cancer but it slows the growth of cancers and tumors. That is just like everything on the planet. It can give you cancer but also help it. The affects of this medication are beneficial for cancer patients because of the known facts it assists with an upset stomach and increases appetitie to they can eat during chemo treatments.
that 30% increase in breast cancer thing i read on a report from CNN. And I believe it. alcohol acts directly on estrogen which is a leading cause in breast cancer. That is why they say that taking birth control pills can increase your risk.

Phoenix said...

UMass, also you can't trust someone who smokes pot? that is really stupid and seriously offensive. what are your facts that people who smoke weed are untrustworthy? The worst thing they do is what? Eat your food? For the love of god woman you are clearly a moron. i've met a few morons in my day but you lady take the cake. i don't typically result to insulting anyone directly because it shows low class but you don't know your way out of your own ass. i can't even belive you would think that! That is like me saying something dumb like all hispanics are illegal. or all irish people are drunks. that is almost a racist comment that you made. Now I would give it to you if you said people who smoke meth or rock can't be trusted because they can't. That drug alters the way they think. But you don't know what you are talking about. i really hope that you think hard about all of this and realize that what you said is offensive and you are basically insulting someone's grandma who smokes to heal her pain. Or someone's sister who is dying of cancer. you mean to tell me you can't trust grandma?

For shame

nycmom said...

Phoenix,

I'll be positive and congratulate you on the one accurate piece of information in your post.

Yes, taking birth control pills can increase your risk of breast cancer.

Have a good day!

UmassSlytherin said...

NannyKate,
You have weed in your home. If OPs nanny smokes regularly, she may have (most likely has) weed in the home.
If OP does not want weed in her home, she should not hire a pot smoking nanny.

Phoenix,
I don't think pot smokers cannot be trusted. That is half of what I said. I said that I feel you cannot trust them to care for your children. I don't think pot smokers are bad people. I just would not want a pot smoker in my house with my kids or taking care of my kids. It is a personal choice.

I really don't understand why some of you are getting so emotional over it. It seems pretty cut and dry to me. If you are a nanny who likes to smoke weed, just find a family who is ok with that. I don't see all the controversy.

Phoenix said...

why is that? That is the same thing as saying they can't be trusted. If you can't trust them to take care of your kids then you can't trust them period.

Why can't you trust them?

UmassSlytherin said...

Oh, and Phoenix,
I would not trust my grandmother to care for my child if she was high. Regardless of the reason.

And if I have offended you, I am not surprised. You think I'm a moron? lol oh, wow, Phoenix thinks I'm a moron, I'd better go slit my wrists right now!
lmfao

Phoenix said...

see that is where your opinion is scewed people who smoke pot are not constantly high. How long do you think those affects last? I mean seriously. I bet you speak to tons of people who smoke and you don't even know it.

UmassSlytherin said...

Phoenix,
You remind me of a prison inmate. You just have that vibe about you, like when you were 15 you killed someone in cold blood and have spent your entire young adult life behind bars.
I never said that people who smoke are constantly high. I don't think I said that. If I did, I stand corrected. I don't think people who smoke pot are constantly high.
I don't want a childcare provider who smokes weed. I do see people who are stoned every day. People of all ages. And I would not trust one of them with my child.

UmassSlytherin said...

Furthermore, it would help your case (being a weed-smoker supporter) if you would just say, "It is your personal choice to not have your child cared for by a pot-smoker" instead of acting all self-rightous and snarky about stoners' rights. lol I thought stoners were supposed to be peaceful and accepting: obviously the ones on here are not!

Phoenix said...

LOL. Funny that is not the first time i have heard that. Not the prison thing, the killing part. What you are referring to isn't actually prison mentality. I know many people who were in and out of prison some understand and accept what they did and make it better. Others not so much. You are actually just picking up on my personality. My husband is way worse if you could believe that. People in Arizona generally are a little scary. We have a different code out here and if you are soft in any way you will get run over. I am rough around the edges and i'm a natural fighter. I don't BS and I tell you like it is. I do carry a gun with me all the time and i have been known to get into fist fights when I was younger. I am just that way. You either like it or you don't but I am true to myself. i just wish more people were straight up with themselves.

Too funny. stoners are starting to stand up for themselves. They are very accepting. what I see here is a group of people who are trying to get their point across that just because they smoke weed that doesn't mean they are not professional. I think you have had a bad reference and there are two types of people who smoke weed, just like there are two types of people who drink. This doesn't come down to whether or not someone who smokes weed is bad or good, it actually comes down to who is responsible and who isn't. That is it. You have responsible people and you have some that aren't. Some people who smoke weed are responsible and keep it in their home and are safe. Then you have the other kind who are very stupid and you see them in the news for getting their baby stoned or something stupid like that. I am sure that in some part of your life you've met someone who you would never thought was a smoker and they actually were. They were just being responsible. That being said you can have your opinion. But just know that you are stating you don't like irresponsible smokers not ALL smokers.

MissMannah said...

Nycmom, thank you for coming back and clarifying your point and for posting all those links. I'll admit I didn't read all of them but I did read a few and they said very much what I thought they would. Also, you and I seem to agree on this issue anyway. Being a psychiatrist, of course you know "mental illness" is a pretty big umbrella term, but a lot of people here seem to think it means depression. In no way would I condone a depressed person smoke pot unless prescribed by their doctor (in the case of one poster's husband). Just seems like a no-brainer than pot will worsen depression symptoms. Also, you made some interesting points about schizophrenia, which I have actually been thinking about today. After getting indignant about your post last night, I got to thinking about schizophrenia and yes, it makes plenty of sense that pot would worsen or potentially cause it.

I have not smoked in over 4 years--it made me feel lazy and was starting to make my mental state feel a little off. However, I still stand by my assertion that mentally ill patients can successfully self-medicate with it. But I am not talking about the severely mentally ill, nor am I talking about people who abuse the drug. I'm talking about responsible use, along with taking any other prescribed medications for their illness. (In the BP study, it didn't say if the patients were taking their regular meds. I can't help but wonder if they weren't and if that was a contributing factor to their worsening mental condition, rather than only smoking pot.)

LoveMyKids said...

Ew! My neighbors are losers who smoke pot, fight all the time, drink like it's going out of style, and they have a 5 week old baby! I would not allow a druggie to care for my children. Even if she doesn't smoke it around them, it's still a moral thing (I know! We're not suppose to care about morals anymore.....we only care about "feelings" now a days). I would flat out ask her, and make her take another drug test. Alot of people are saying that a Nanny's personal life doesn't matter. I COMPLETELY disagree!! IMO, people who hook, sell/do ANY illegal drugs, drink more then a glass of wine every night, sexually abuse children on the weekends, or are in the mafia, should not be aloud to Nanny! I do care care if you do these things outside of work.
Good luck to you! I Nanny in the Pacific NW, and you sound like an awesome family!

Phoenix said...

LoveMyKids...

you ever think its cuz of the alcohol not the pot? most likely its the alcohol. weed doesn't cause people to fight

another nanny said...

OP- as far as your dilemma, I don't think your nanny is a horrible person for smoking, but she needs to be respectful of you and your home. If I were you, I'd probably stress that you feel she's doing a good job, and what she does on her own time is her business. However, state you're just not comfortable with her coming home high, and ask her if she could stay overnight with a friend on evenings when she smokes. Also, you said this has happened 3-4 times- over what period of time? It makes a difference it it's 3-4 times in 2 weeks versus 3-4 times in a year.

nycmom- thanks for the links. I appreciate you sharing your research, experience, and (especially) your rationality.

rubbernecker said...

Phoenix, are you vying for the position of most hated person on this blog?

I gotta admit, your like a car wreck. You keep us coming back for more because we just have to see what you say next.

Lee said...

LMAO, damn you guys are mean as hell!

Now Phoenix, your comment: "weed doesn't cause people to fight" is really broad and quite frankly, full of shit.

Why the hell wouldn't two people smoking weed not fight? What if one of them forgets to pass the bong? That would definitely be cause for a knock in the chops!

LoveMyKids said...

Phoenix-

Every time I smell it coming through my vents, they start to fight shortly afterwards. Also, the baby starts to cry before they start fighting. I think the strong stench bothers the baby, and perhaps they start fighting because the baby is screaming his head off??

On a side note:
Why on earth would people want to smoke something that smells like a mixture of cat pee and chicken crap?! I had never smelled pot in my life before my new "wonderful" neighbors moved in. I was so mad because I thought my cat was peeing somewhere in the house! I spent a week searching for it. My friend came over one night, and I apologized for the hidious smell.....she said, "Uuummm, that's not cat pee, it's weed!" LOL! I was relieved, but shocked at the same time. I thought that weed would have a more relaxing sweet scent! I now know that I could never smoke something that reminds me of STRONG scented cat urine......different strokes for different folks I guess :-)

Meow said...

LMFAO!! Cat piss!

Amy said...

Ladies, the Poster doesn't give a rats ass if you smoke or WHY you smoke. She asked how to approach her LI nanny about her smoking.

OP, because she is a LI nanny I feel you have every right to broach the subject, and I'm glad you did. If she lives in your home and comes to YOUR home under the influence, even while "off-duty" and you are not comfortable with it, then you should set limits. She can do what she wants on her own time, outside of your house. She cannot bring it into your home or come home under the influence. I'd even go as far as to tell her to stay over at a friends if she's wasted because of alcohol use, because I wouldn't want MY son to be exposed to someone who is drunk or later hung-over.

If she were a live-out this would be a non-issue.

Dr. Juris said...

I seriously don't know how you made the jump from typifying stoners to racism, Phoenix, and I'm quite amused you did. Unlike race or sex (for the most part, anyway), you can CHOOSE whether to smoke pot. Additionally, you are only talking about pot for medicinal purposes. That's a world of difference between someone who does it recreationally to get high, and I don't know why you don't see the distinction.

UmassSlytherin said...

Amy,
This is an open forum.

And I disagree that it is a non-issue for live-outs. The issue here is regarding nannies who smoke pot. Like an asshole, we all have an opionion. I give a rat's ass for the others' opinions on this site: even Phoenix's (god help her.)

Any more questions?

Just wow to all this said...

@lovemykids - Weed smells skunky and a bit sweet. If the smoke smells like cat piss it's probably meth they're smoking. Call the police.

UmassSlytherin said...

I would call the police anyway: they shouldn't be all high with a baby around. That's just sad.

Topeka said...

Almost everyone on this thread has made me want to vomit.There are some real lame people out there.
Just remember folks,
alcohol is something you wear.

UmassSlytherin said...

I think it's lame when people have to be stoned in order to be happy.

Topeka said...

LOL No. Most people have to take
antidepressants to be happy these days. Who wants to have a look at side effects of Depakote?
Weed any day sweetie.

Boulder420 said...

I think if your nanny only gets stoned outside the house, you shouldn't say anything. You wouldn't have a problem with her having a drink with friends would you? Pot is much much safer than alcohol, I would rather have a nanny who smokes weed than a nanny who drinks. Alcohol impairs judement much more, leading to worse choices, and does much more damage to the body.

That being said, Of course no one should be stoned around a child. If she is smoking in your house, that is something for you to be concerned about. You have the right to refuse to allow pot in your house. But you do not have the right to tell her what she can and cannot do when she is off the clock and away from your house.

By the way, how many parents come home and have a glass of wine or two, right in front of their kids? This is dangerous as well, yet everyone thinks that is just fine. I have seen parents go out, get drunk, drive home, and come home and go to bed with the kids sleeping in the next room. Yet if a parent was stoned around their kids, people freak out. You should always be sober if you are responsible for children. It is a ridiculous double standard.

This country is very ignorant about pot. I suggest we educate ourselves before rushing to judgement about those who smoke.

Nanny J said...

I have to chip in because I'm from the NW, and probably the same state as OP, it sounds like.

It's legal here medically. It only takes $200 bucks to get a medical card, and there are MANY conditions you may not even know your nanny has because she is smart enough not to complain of pain constantly, etc.

I would say, unless she is 18 and fresh off the boat from another country, chances are she has her card. Especially if you're from Oregon, since it's not hard to get at all. Most pain conditions, even MIGRAINES are acceptable currently in OR.

I can understand not wanting her stoned around your kids, and I definitely don't smoke around the kids I work with or in my work environment. If I were you, I'd find an acceptable way to bring it into conversation and mention that while you don't care what she does on her own time, you'd appreciate her not bringing it into your home, or ever doing it around your children.

Chances are, if she's as good a nanny as you say, the thoughts had never crossed her mind. And legally, if she has a card, you cannot get into ANY trouble- regardless of having children in the home.

I have friends who legally grow for a sibling, and they have 2 little girls of their own. It is 100% legal in the state, though of course not federally. But the chances of the feds knocking on YOUR door, for your nanny's ten sack of weed? Slim to none.

UmassSlytherin said...

Chances are, chances are.
I wouldn't take that chance on my child or my family. People who put their kids first (before their almighty weed) would not take that chance, ever.

Dr. Juris said...

Can I just say that I HATE the smell of pot, and if my nanny chose to do it, I'd fire her just because of the smell alone? Lord have mercy, does that stuff stink! (Literally, it makes me throw up a little every time I smell it--I realize everyone is different and doesn't necessarily respond physiologically like I do, but that's one thing I cannot stand to be around and would not allow EVER in my home.)

stinkystuff said...

Lets just be honest. Weed smells like somebody ate candy corn and grass and then had diarrhea. My friends in high school use to smoke it, and I vomited twice from the smell alone. Just awful!! If you don't want your child or your home to smell like that, fire your Nanny. Make it clear to the next Nanny that you will not tolerate her smoking weed even while off the clock simply because the smell will be on her clothes and ruin/expose your home and child. Nobody should be forced to put up with something so gross!!

Beezus said...

The side effects of your common antidepressant are far more dangerous than that of your average bong rip.
Chances are that many of the posters on this thread alone are taking one if not two different mood stabilizers.Check out the side effects. Are you Ok with your nanny taking Paxil and operating heavy machinery aka lugging your kids around in her car; possibly your car? I suppose no one here would be so incredulous to ask their nanny if they were on these types of medication,as it would be terribly rude and unfounded, but dangerous to your children none the less.
As for how weed smells, it does have a certain reek. Most pills and vitamins reek too. Farts smell also, so do your kids poop filled diapers- Get over it. Throwing up from the smell? Take an acting class, you're obviously outrageously dramatic. People are so very sensitive and easily offended.
Alcohol is not something cute. I'm not sure why so many people are so comfortable with it. It causes birth defects and DUIS and kills people all around the world everyday,but because it's legal all of the 'holier than thous' come out and support it.Social drinking? Why? Because you hate what your doing and who you're with so much that your going to ingest something to make it all a little easier and more fun? Unfortunately when you're drunk you lose the ability to make good choices. People get knocked up, drive cars and kill people or themselves or simply become total fools.
Weed makes you want snacks.
I feel that if MJ smelled like flowers and strawberry ice cream, NO ONE would have an issue with it, at least on here.

MissMannah said...

"The side effects of your common antidepressant are far more dangerous"

You neglected to mention those side effects are also extremely rare.

Let's take a moment... said...

So when you buy your weed, you know exactly what's in it, right?

Phoenix said...

no some weed smells like cat piss. that is the really strong shit and it depends on the type. kush strands smell like sweet pine sol. THe cat piss smell comes from disel brands which is a type of kush too (I think) don't quote me on that one. My husband would know more about it.
Meth, I don't know what that smells like as I have never been around it. But i have never heard that it smells like cat piss.

And no weed doesn't make people fight. It could if they are both NOT smoking and they have a little anxiety but while they are using it. Nope, its what people are calling a depressant.

And I don't need to try to make people hate me. It comes naturally. LOL

Chronic isn't usually laced with anything that is what mersh is for. And that comes up through Mexico and it is NOT medical grade. Chronic is a highly specialized art and it takes people a long time to grow it right. It is quite amazing what people are doing these days. They are even able to make a type of weed that doesn't make you high. YOu just get the medicinal benefits without the euphoria.

Beezus said...

Doesn't matter if they are "rare". They are still side effects and they are listed because they exist. A lot more people take antidepressants than smoke weed. And lets face it, at the very least they will most likely make you sleepy especially when you first begin to take them. SO no I didn't "neglect" anything.
Also are you sure what you're filling your body with and altering your brain with is safe? Whatever though, it's just your BRAIN.

Phoenix said...

anti-depressants hurt your body a lot more than weed. the ssri meds are absolutly horrible for women. It makes your body gain weight, have trouble have orgasms, and make your libido not existant. THey do a lot more but I think those are the most important side effects. Wellbutrin is a good one. Depakote is not an antidepressant. It is used mostly for eliptic seizures and it can be used for manic depressants as well as bi-polar but I don't see it that often. It also smells like vanilla. Yummy. But one patient we saw was losing his teeth because of this medication. Then you have the idiot women who take them during pregnancy when it says pregnant catagory X and then they try to sue the pharmaceutical company. She should sue her doctor. THe doctor was the one who made the call that he was going to hopefully make the benefits are going to out-weigh the risks.

But honestly. Alcohol is so much worse than weed. And people who do drugs are not people to trust. Weed is not a drug in my opinion. Meth is a nasty drug and i've lost 2 friends to that drug. They are both out of their god dang mind. Literally insane.

PotForTeacher said...

I've smoked weed regularly since I was 13. During that time, I've received top honors in high school, a private 4 year college liberal arts degree, and a 4.0 in two Masters programs. I've had fourteen years of babysitting experience, eight years of professional nanny experience, and three years of classroom teaching at the elementary level. Never once have I been 'high' while watching children, driving, or teaching. Marijuana affects me directly after I smoke it, and I do so only after all of my professional commitments for the day have been honored. At work, I am creative, energetic, quick-thinking, and loving towards my students. My classes every year have made top gains in the school for standardized testing, and all students and parents report that I am a dedicated and wonderful teacher. My nanny jobs were all wonderful and the kids thrived with their sober, fully involved, happy (NOT high) nanny. Of course, I would never live in...I value my privacy, personal life, and a separation between work and home. You were entitled to ask your nanny about her stench given that she lives in your house. I think you forfeit some privacy as a live in nanny. I would never smoke recreationally outside the house (or in, of course!) as a live in, because I wouldn't want my boss to become irrational about it - how it affects my ability to do my job, fearing that I might be stoned while watching the children - as it seems that a lot of posters on this thread have mentioned. Get real, folks! Plenty of functional people in this world smoke, and, furthermore, are responsible about never bringing it into their workplace!

Phoenix said...

PotForTeacher

Thank you for saying what you did. I spoke to my husband last night about responsible weed smokers and he said the same thing you did. Once all professional commitments are met then smoking is ok. It is just like people who like to drink. They don't do it at work. At least the ones who are responsible.

MissMannah said...

"Also are you sure what you're filling your body with and altering your brain with is safe? Whatever though, it's just your BRAIN."

Yes, and sometimes a person's brain doesn't work properly and needs a little help. This is why a patient takes a mind-altering substance, because they know leaving their brain as-is would be much more dangerous.

Beezus said...

Or they just don't feel "happy" enough. Stop being so brain washed. I suppose you're also in favor of lobotomies as well?

Phoenix said...

do you not know what depression means? it is a chemical imbalance in your brain. Its called science. anti-depressants assist in correcting these problems but if someone can't take them for whatever reason and they smoke instead it does make them happier and calmer. The imbalance is still there but it is under control. And I don't see where lobotomies comes into play?

Beezus said...

Doctors toss a lot of people onto antidepressants for little to no reason these days, and if you don't believe that, you're sorely mistaken. Chemical imbalance or not, don't tell me it's OK for teenagers to be taking these pills much less adults. Children's and teens brains are still forming and sometimes we all have a bad day here and there. Go google JANIS Journey and get back to me. Also the documentary The Medicated Child.
I just feel that antidepressants should be avoided at all costs.Especially in children and young people. And I find it very sad when people begin to see them used and prescribed as being a norm.

UmassSlytherin said...

To the poster who went on and on about her academic achievements: I am not impressed.

If you are a teacher, you cannot tell me that you would not care if the parents of your students knew, and that it would not effect how they view you. What would that do to your career?

You're a loser. Sorry but it's true. The only thing your story makes me want to do is homeschool my child. That's all I get from your story.

MissMannah said...

Beezus, I usually a really respect your opinions and look forward to whatever you have to say. But now you are being utterly ridiculous. Nowhere did anybody even hint that children or teenagers should be medicated. Where did you even get that? All I've been saying is from my own personal experience with drugs...both legal and illegal. I didn't start taking mood stabilizers until I was 25...well after adolescence...and they have literally saved my life. Of course they are not for everybody, nor is any other drug. And yes, I've seen The Medicated Child and found it fascinating.

Phoenix said...

Beezus

there are lots of people who have benefited from anti-depressants. Lots of people. A chemical imbalance is something very serious and it can make a person very dangerous to themselves and to others. If they aren't on their meds they are crazy and can hurt people. If you think no one should take them, wow that is very ignorant. You have no clue why someone is put on the drug to begin with. in fact that is very selfish of you and it is very insulting.

Zoloft Nanny said...

I am a Nanny who takes anti-depressants and has been for over ten years. The brain is part of the body too and gets sick just like all the other parts. Would you tell someone w/cancer not to take their meds? Or a diabetic? People take anti-depressants because their brain is sick and they need to get better.

It's opinions like yours Beezus that attach stigmas to mental illness.

Get an education.....

Lyn said...

*singsong voice* this is the thread that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friendsssss ;)

Zombienderated said...

Zoloft nanny!Someones obviously is a little overdue for her next dose! Take one,or two; hell make it three!

Beezus said...

Phoenix- No one said certain people shouldn't take them,I said not all who are, should. Insulting?Selfish? My mother put me on them at 15. I was typical 15 and slightly mopey. I hated her for it and quit them after about 2 months. I still feel like I am not totally the same person that I was before and not in a " my life is so mush greater kind of way". MissMannah I also had seizures when I was on them, so yes the side effects are real as they are with anything you may consume.
I just want people to understand that it's not always this fixer. AND yes weed is still safer; even though I no longer toke like I used to.
On my phone if there are a lot of types

Annoyed said...

Wow. Just wasted precious minutes of my life reading through this comment thread. You people crack me up. I don't think pot is the worst thing in the world you could be doing, but the fact of the matter is that IT IS ILLEGAL. I don't give a flying f* if any of you think it should be legalized. Have your opinion all you want, but IT ISN'T LEGAL. And any nanny engaging in illegal drug activities isn't welcome in my home...weather she is doing it on the clock or off. ESPECIALLY if she is a live in...she could have pot in her room in her employers house which automatically drags them into it whether she smokes it there or not.

Nanny J said...

Annoyed said...
Wow. Just wasted precious minutes of my life reading through this comment thread. You people crack me up. I don't think pot is the worst thing in the world you could be doing, but the fact of the matter is that IT IS ILLEGAL. I don't give a flying f* if any of you think it should be legalized. Have your opinion all you want, but IT ISN'T LEGAL. And any nanny engaging in illegal drug activities isn't welcome in my home...weather she is doing it on the clock or off. ESPECIALLY if she is a live in...she could have pot in her room in her employers house which automatically drags them into it whether she smokes it there or not.

Not if they live in the pacific NW, where it's medically legalized. All they'd have to do if anything DID go down is say 'I don't have access to that room, it is my nanny's and she rents it from us' since technically she forgoes part of her wage for the room surely.

Phoenix said...

it is legal in certain states under the states rights have separate powers from their gov't. Now this is an iffy concept. It is not recognized by the federal gov't but if your nanny is in a state and has the required documentation she is legal in the state. She will not be federally raded unless she has hundreds of pounds on her. Now in my state I have a license to grow.
The point is the OP can set the rules to her house as she wishes. it is her house. This is also something to know. If your nanny gets into a car accident and they drug test her and she shows positive for THC she will be charged with DUI. No matter if she wasn't high at the time. That is a loophole. Even if you have a license to smoke they can still charge you for DUI. And that is really scary. Even if you are taking pain meds and you wreck and hurt someone and they blood test you 90% of the time you will get a DUI charge.

If OP doesn't want it in her house that is her business. Whatever nanny does outside the home is her business and her liability

StrawberryShortKakes said...

All these loop holes and "ifs" and "maybes" are exactly why I wouldn't keep on a nanny that I know smokes pot. Totally not worth all the worry and risks.

Nanny Jenn said...

Bottom line y'all...the Nanny is engaging in ILLEGAL activity while caring for said child and living in MB's home. That is enough to fire her.

She sounds like she is young and naive to me. Hire an older/more mature Nanny (over 30) and you probably won't have to deal w/this nonsense.

Phoenix said...

Nanny Jen,

I will have to disagree that an older nanny would be a better fit. Age has no relevance on responsibility. My 12 year old is more responsible than most 50 year olds.

It is not illegal in every state. If she has a medical card she is allowed to be in possession. however, if OP doesn't want it in her house that is ok and she should enforce it. But if she lives in a state where it is legal and nanny has a card she is not breaking the law. unless a federal officer just happens to pull her over. LOL They have bigger fish to fry. The legality of the behavior is still up for debate because we don't know if she is legal or isn't.

All that matters is how OP feels about her nanny and what she feels about things in her house.

***See I'm learning to be nicer***

Village said...

Although I believe what people do on their own time is their own business, if one comes to work smelling of pot, it becomes a work issue. If you are a live in, then the house is your workplace. You can't come home stoned. It's not professional. JMO!!

Annoyed said...

Nanny J-
Whether it's my nanny's room that I don't go into or not, it's still my house and I will not condone illegal drugs being brought into it. Sorry for being responsible.
And enough of the medical talk. I highly doubt if she's going out with friends and coming home high she's doing it for medicinal purposes. Don't bother arguing with me. I don't care what you pot-friendly people have to say. It's not legal and I will not have it in my house.

PISSANT said...

NANNY J is the worst person on this blog...Sorry Phoenix.

Phoenix said...

honestly my home is 420 friendly but would i allow someone to watch my son high? No. If they were a live in. Nope they wouldnt be able to have it in their room. you see I don't trust anyone. I can hope that someone would come to work sober like most normal people do. If a nanny has pot in a house that is not hers. She must get rid of it. She is a liability to the house, especially if she doesn't have a card. And also if she has it in her room and the kids get it. It won't harm them but they will get sick and that is so freakin bad. Worst possible scenario.

The point was it is legal at a state level in some states. That is a fact. A person holding a medical is responsible... i will write what the back of my card says

" Warning marijuana can be addictive and can impair an individuals ability to drive a motor vehicle or operate heavy machinery. Marijuana smoke contains carcinogens and can lead to an increased risk of some cancers, tachycardia, hypertension, heart attack, and lung infection. KEEP MARIJUANA OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN AND ANY UNAUTHORIZED INDIVIDUAL" (the caps are really caps on my card.

Basically its saying that any person who has it on them and they have influenced anyone other themselves with their prescription they are prosecuted.

But as this isn't a blog about weed. I stand by the decision that says a live in nanny should not have weed in the house, come to work stoned, get stoned at work, or leave it in a place like the car. smokers are good with technicalities. "Hey you said not the house. You didn't say the car."

She can do what she wants on her own time. But she can't influence her job or her bosses. Even if it's off time. If I go out and my boss sees me with someone smoking weed. Even if I don't smoke that changes their perception even if it was in my off hours. He wouldn't be able to un-see that. She sounds immature and that is the issue. Not the drug. i used to work with a lady for 7 years. Then one day she died. Aparently she snorted coke the entire time and i had no clue because she was careful

Phoenix said...

and btw young kids are able to get medical cards. Some doctors are paid off. The kids the cards so they can be legal. Its just a group of pot heads who are card holders. They do not do it for medical purposes. But that is hard to regulate as i've said. Doctors get paid off. When i got mine I had to show my doctor 10 years of medical history because of my age. I am so screwed up that it was not a big deal to me. But I don't know how the kids find these doctors and why the state doesn't look into it more.

Oh well.

OMG said...

DOES PHOENIX LIVE ON THE GODDAMN INTERNET?
I am so sick of hearing your page long rants where you go off on everyone's opinion! Yes, you are entitled to yours as well but maybe think about limiting yourself to 4 posts a day or something! Good GRIEF. Wish I had the spare time you do!

craziness said...

I just tried to google 420, and it popped up that 420 is Hittler's Birthday! LOL!
But seriously, I do agree with people about the offensive smell. I also just watched the latest episode of "16 and pregnant"....wow! The Dad was high all the time, and from the looks of it, I would NEVER allow someone who smokes weed (medical purposes or not) to take care of my child! This guy was so out of it that he couldn't even function. Sad.

MissMannah said...

Because the people who appear on 16 and Pregnant are the ones you should make character judgments by.

Phoenix said...

it on;y takes me literally 5 minutes to type that long of a post. I'm not quite sure how long it would take some people to type but if you think that takes up all my spare time you are sorely mistaken.

Also you don't have to read what i write that is your choice.

420 time said...

Anonymous craziness said...
I just tried to google 420, and it popped up that 420 is Hittler's Birthday! LOL!

You gots to know where to look brudda!
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=420

Andrea said...

If it's on her own time, then that's not your business. If she smells like it when she walks into your home that is your business. Especially if she looks stoned. You should establish a routine drug test.

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Unknown said...

You're correct- you do sound like a snob.