Friday

Chinese Woman Forced to Abort 8-month-old Fetus

reader submission A pregnant woman in south China was detained, beaten and forced to have an abortion just a month before her due date because the baby would have violated the country's one-child limit, her husband said Thursday.

Construction worker Luo Yanquan said his wife was taken kicking and screaming from their home by more than a dozen people on Oct. 10 and detained in a clinic for three days by family planning officials, then taken to a hospital and injected with a drug that killed her baby.

Family planning officials told the couple they weren't allowed to have the child because they already have a 9-year-old daughter, Luo said.

For the last 30 years, China has limited most urban couples to just one child in a bid to curb population growth and conserve its limited resources. China has the world's largest population, with more than 1.3 billion people. Couples that flout the rules face hefty fines, seizure of their property and loss of their jobs.

The case is an extreme example of the coercive measures Chinese officials sometimes use to comply with the strict family planning regulations. Though illegal, police and judicial authorities often look the other way when forced abortion cases are reported and the heavily censored state media shy away from such news.

But in recent years, victims have begun to speak out about their ordeals with the help of the Internet and text messaging. Aiding them are social campaigners and lawyers who have documented cases of forced late-term abortions. Similar abuses have been reported in Hebei and Shandong provinces and in the Guangxi region.

An official with the Siming district family planning commission, which oversees Luo's neighborhood, confirmed there was a record of Luo's wife, Xiao Aiying, undergoing an abortion recently but said the procedure was voluntary and that she was about six months instead of eight months pregnant at the time. Like many Chinese bureaucrats, he refused to give his name.

China bans forced abortions, but doesn't prohibit or clearly define late-term abortion.

The Siming official said Xiao's husband had approved the abortion, a claim Luo denied.

"I never signed anything. No one in our family did," he said by telephone from Xiamen. "I called the police but they said family planning issues weren't their responsibility. I want to sue, but lawyers I've asked here say they can't help me and the media won't report on our case."

Luo set up a blog last week to let people know what had happened to his wife, and satellite broadcaster Al-Jazeera posted a report about the couple's case on its website Wednesday.

Photos on the blog show a pained-looking, and clearly pregnant, Xiao sitting on a hospital bed after the injection but before the baby was stillborn 40 hours later. Other images show a large purple bruise on her arm and scratches on her leg, which Luo said were caused when family planning officials hit and kicked her as she struggled to get away.

Ordinary Chinese reacted with anger and disgust to Luo's online account, posting comments that called the family planning officials cruel and inhuman.

Xiao delivered the dead baby on Oct. 14 but remains hospitalized and may require emergency surgery to remove pieces of placenta still in her uterus, Luo said. The couple, both 36, were not informed of the sex of the aborted baby, Luo said.

A man who answered the phone at the obstetrics ward of the Siming No. 1 Hospital confirmed that Xiao was still a patient there. He refused to provide more details or give his name.

Telephone calls to the press office of the National Population and Family Planning Commission in Beijing rang unanswered Thursday.

Interview with Luo Yanquan


Xiao Aiying's injuries
Photobucket
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A very special Thank you to Chquita for Submitting this News Article.

66 comments:

MissMannah said...

Alrighty, you guys are not going to like what I have to say.

They have a one-child policy in China. If you have a child, you do not get pregnant again. It is as simple as that. This is not the first instance of a forced abortion, it is just the first time the parents have gone public about it (to my knowledge). So what is going to happen to his family when the Chinese government sees this video? Corruption is prevalent on every level and the sort of things you can say here, you cannot get away with saying over there.

So of course I don't agree with forced abortions. It is inhumane and ought to be completely illegal. But it happens, and the Chinese citizens are aware of it, so they really shouldn't put themselves into a potentially horrific position.

OK, now you all can tell me how heartless I am.

LovingNanny said...

@MissMannah
I don't think you are heartless. You just see it the way it is.

It is very sad and inhumane. But if you know what can happen to you and your unborn baby, you don't get pregnant.
I don't want to know how the women is keeping up and what kind of psychological help she needs now.
China is not a country that treads their citizens well. That is one reason why I will never go there for vacation and support it.
I wish I could refrain from using anything made in China, but that is impossible.

Marypoppin'pills said...

Only if you are poor, MissMannah. If your Family has money you can easily skirt the Laws to this Policy. That is classism and the poor are suffering by it from forced abortions, having the baby then selling it on the black market to avoid being caught, paying heavy fines or giving birth and abandoning the baby in a field to die. Some women are then sterilized to prevent them from becoming pregnant again. Where are their rights?

It is a socio-economic nightmare because the female child is not held in as high regard as the male and over the past 30 years since the invent of this policy the men far outnumber the women in population.

The rumors are that China will abolish this Law in 2011-2012, and yes they need to have another plan in place... but forcing a woman to abort an 8-month old fetus is murder, and that is unacceptable in any culture.

Observer said...

8 months!? The brain is developed and the baby is able to survive outside the womb. This is disgusting. China has murdered a baby and what reaction will the world have beyond shrugging their arms?

babyruth said...

I agree with MPP's comment...I currently work in a boarding school in the UK, where we have a lot of Chinese students. Most of them are only children (all boys), but several have siblings - and the parents of these kids are all employed by the Chinese government. Coincidence? Don't think so.

j said...

I find it appalling that anyone could have a "to each their own" approach to this egregious human rights violation, even if it is "just China's culture" or if citizens are "on notice and should know better." While I believe 95% women in the US who got pregnant "accidentally, in spite of one or more forms of perfectly used birth control" are lying, there ARE freak cases of pregnancies happening in spite of seemingly adequate protection taken. What of those women?

horrible. said...

What a horrible story. What a horrible, horrible country to let this happen. I feel ashamed to share a planet with China.

TC said...

I promise I'm not trying to stir the pot but I'm wondering just what this story has to do with nannies.

This is a story about abortion..which most people have a strong opinion on. This story is about the oppression of Chinese people..which again most people have a strong opinion on. Are you trying to turn this into a political blog because that's basically what this story boils down too. Do you really want the political fights to start on this blog?

Marypoppin'pills said...

TC
Fair question. This was originally submitted by a reader and after researching the article I decided to run it for several reasons, some personal. But the bottom line is: ISYN is all about the children, not nannies... and a perfectly viable 8-month-old fetus was murdered 14 days ago and people should be outraged.

TC said...

Thanks for the reply MPP

I won't comment here, I do frequent political sites and I've commented on things like this before....this is not something that has just come to light because of these people. I've been aware of things like this for a while.

cali mom said...

Thank you for publicizing this Jane and MPP. This makes me sick to read. How is this different from dragging a newborn baby out of the mother's arms and hacking its head off with a machete? 8 months is a FULL-TERM BABY, it just hasn't exited the womb yet. Babies are born healthy at 6 1/2 months, so this has nothing to do with "abortion rights".

I think the one-child policy is reasonable but enforcement should be in the form of high fines or some other financial sanction, NOT murder. And it should either apply or not, not be based on who can bribe who or get a special exemption due to their political connections.

TC, I guess the only people who would see this as starting a "political fight" are those who feel it's fine to murder healthy, full term babies? This site is essentially devoted to the topic of children's well-being, otherwise why would anyone bother to write in about a bad nanny?

cali mom said...

Sorry MPP, I see my post went up right after yours where you already addressed the political question.

TC said...

TC, I guess the only people who would see this as starting a "political fight" are those who feel it's fine to murder healthy, full term babies? This site is essentially devoted to the topic of children's well-being, otherwise why would anyone bother to write in about a bad nanny?

~~~~~~
*sigh* and comments like this are why I asked why you would bring up a political story. Calimom please don't assume anything about me, feel free to ask questions but dont assume simply because I asked a question that you know what my beliefs are

Stella B. Mozzarella said...

In the embedded you tube video, the father of the unborn child states that he had city residency and his wife had country residency and being that the one-child policy applies only to urban Chinese they were unsure or thought the policy did not apply to them. I think this is why they chose to get pregnant a second time.

Marypoppin'pills said...

I am not sure how long this comment will stay up but I felt it needed to be said. I want everyone to know that despite this policy it has nothing to do with the Chinese as a whole. I do not want this to take a racist turn... this was very difficult for me to Publish because my BF is Chinese. He has been in the US for 3 years and was very supportive in helping me to write this article. He read the husbands Blog and deciphered it for me thinking it would not be up very long because of his speaking publicly about what happened to his wife. It basically contains the same information that was provided in the video.

cali mom said...

TC, I am not making any assumptions about your beliefs but I can say undoubtedly that the only people who would not be outraged by this would be those who think it's fine for this to happen because the couple (apparently) broke the law.

TC said...

Cali did I say anywhere that I was or was not outraged by what happened?

I simply asked a question and it was answered. I chose not to make my opinion known on this blog, I have and do on other sites but my opinion of what happened here will not be said here. That is my choice, it does not mean anything other than I chose to voice my opinion elsewhere

cold nanny said...

I agree with the always outspoken calimom, and thanks to Mpp for bringing this to our attention.

Do you think for one second this would have EVER happened here in the United States? This is a human-rights issue that is wrong on so many levels, and I'm shocked that in this day and age something like this can occur.

God bless this family.

cold nanny said...

TC, can I ask why you don't want to comment here? I swear I'm not trying to cause you any trouble but I'm just curious.

The only conclusion one could draw is that you think that maybe she shouldn't have gotten pregnant, yes, but I can't imagine you think that what was done was right? But do you think she should have been punished for it?

TC said...

See I answer questions :)

I simply don't want this place to turn into a fight. I've seen that happen on political sites and it gets pretty brutal, worse than anything I've seen on here and I just don't want to be a part of it.

I love to debate things like this as well as politics but at the same time I also love blogs like this. Blogs that have nothing to do with politics or the controversy of the day.

This site is my 'escape' when I've had enough of the crap spewed on political sites. This is a site I can come to and vent about my work, something I don't do on political sites.

I've learned throughout the years that when you debate politics that you shouldn't make it personal, that you shouldn't mention anything about your life because once you do you open yourself up for ridicule. Some people are just plain evil and will use something you consider so minor that you mentioned months ago to berate you and devalue your argument.

I've seen it happen many many times and I just don't want to see that happen here.

That's simply my reason for not giving my opinion on here. Now again that doesn't mean I agree or don't agree with what happened, it just means I don't wish to voice my opinion here.

cold nanny said...

ok, thanks TC. :)

Rocket Scientist said...

This is so sad. The human rights violations that the Chinese government carries out every day are tragic. The people of China do not deserve to be silenced, imprisoned, beaten, etc. etc. No one does. I can't understand why the world doesn't wake up and stop the injustice that over 1/6 of the human race faces as a way of life.
Thank you for posting this article.

Observer said...

calimom,

I think you're being unnecessarily harsh on TC. It makes sense that ISYN is an escape for her from political blogs. It is for me too.

I'm terrified that someone will try to make this late term Chinese murder about early term U.S. policy and that all hell will break loose.

This isn't the place for that or at least, in my opinion and hers, it shouldn't be.

jesus pleasus said...

My question is: how can you NOT hold this against Chinese people? I mean, Christ on a freaking cross, it's just messed up.

We need to go in there and take the hell over. Damn rights it is a human rights violation. The UN should completely disband the government in my opinion. They should take over and change the name of the country, call it United States II or something. Gosh.

please said...

Please, PLEASE delete that last comment.

Husband_of_a_Nanny said...

I am 34 and I learned that China had this rule of one child per household when I was in grade school. So, it is kind of ironic that nothing has been done to stop this if it has been common knowledge.

BUT to the idiot that said the US should go in there and do something... well, then we would have a nuclear World War III on our hands.

Invading a communist country would put us at stakes with Korea, the Soviet Union and a few other countries.

The correct thing to do would be have the UN and high ranking EU representatives bring this up for debate.

War and invasion do not solve anything. We already look like stupid Americans for going to the Middle East!

cali mom said...

Observer, you, TC and anyone else who does not want to read about this topic are free to skip the post and all its responses. It's pretty clear from the headline what it's about, so what's the issue? if you don't want to be involved in the discussion, good news: you don't have to be. If you don't want to share your opinion on it, more good news: you don't have to. If you don't want to read what other people think of it, guess what...more good news! That's right, you don't have to.

I haven't demanded that TC give any opinion on it whatsoever. I have stated mine and given my opinion of anyone who is not angered by it. So, what's the issue?

If you don't want to read what I have to say...skip over it.

let's get a map from this century... said...

Ummm, Husband of a Nanny...?? Korea and the Soviet Union are not countries. North Korea and Russia are (and South Korea, but I don't think you are talking about them).

Marypoppin'pills said...

jesus pleasus
Please tell me how every man, woman and child, that just happen to be Chinese, are responsible for this? The answer is: they are not. This is the Government's Policy, so they are the one's that need to be held accountable, not them.


You wrote:
jesus pleasus said...

My question is: how can you NOT hold this against Chinese people? I mean, Christ on a freaking cross, it's just messed up.

MissMannah said...

MPP, how could you possibly take someone who said "They should take over and change the name of the country, call it United States II or something" seriously? This person is either a troll or VERY out of touch with reality.

You asked me where are the woman's rights and I just can't answer that. For one thing, I don't claim to know much about Chinese culture or government. For another, they most likely don't have any.

It is interesting you brought up classism. You're right, of course. Classism is a problem in every society (even American, as we nannies can attest to) and the Chinese seem to be really suffering as a result. But it just strikes me as ironic, because isn't the point of Communism to eliminate classism completely? (Again, I don't know much, this is just what I thought.)

Another thing is, what can we do about it? If it was America or a country in the UN, we could complain and be heard. But how many complaints are the Chinese government going to listen to? They don't care what we think.

Marypoppin'pills said...

MissMannah,
You are right, but I had 2 choices. Delete the comment, which some readers have asked me to do, or answer back with an opinion of my own hoping to derail it.

The entire comment disturbed me but the part of it that I responded to was what ruffled me the most.

And if you haven't noticed, yes, I am trying to be delicate. I don't want this to become a free-for-all.

please said...

MPP, I understand your reasoning. It's probably better to address it than delete it...it's just that the entire comment, both the language used as well as the thoughts behind it, is so awful. Thanks for discrediting the commenter. I too hope things remain civil!

TC said...

Calimom you've missed the point completely. Where did I say I didn't like your comments or want to read them? Where did I say that I didn't want to read anyones comments? I just asked a question and it was answered. Then you decided to give your opinion and accuse me of thinking one way because I refused to state my opinion on a matter. You read what to much into my question, thankfully MPP did not and answered my question.

Is that your retort whenever you don't get the answer you want? Well you don't have to read it? You can just skip over my comments?

cali mom said...

What's your beef?

You complained about the article even being here. Yet you are still reading the thread and arguing about it after bemoaning the fact that it might cause people to argue?????????

You seem to think someone is demanding you give your opinion on it. Not me, so give it or don't. Whatever.

You don't like my opinion on this apparently, which you have made clear despite your assertion that no one here should be forced to discuss the topic because God forbid, people might disagree and that would make you uncomfortable????????????

You are apparently upset at being reminded that you are not obligated to read or respond to anything posted here. Would you be happier if someone ordered you to read everything and respond to everything?

I thought you said you came to this site to relax and not argue? If you say so...

TC said...

LOL Calimom continue on your rants it just makes you look even more sillier

cali mom said...

Sigh. TC, I'd ask you again what your point is, but you've been babbling on for days without managing to make one, so I'll just say...never mind. maybe you'll feel better after a nice little nap?

Observer said...

cali mom,

The headline is about a situation that is a world away from what I fear this thread devolving into. That you would insist that I or any other should just skip this thread is an uncharacteristically childish attitude on your part. It overlooks the fact that my concern over where this topic will go, or any other concern voiced here, is just as much a contribution to the discussion of the topic as anything you have to say, however more direct it may or may not be. It is a reaction to the topic just the same.

TC had a fair question about whether such a horrendous topic as this was relevant to ISYN and MPP addressed it. That should have been it. Instead you made claims you couldn't possibly know about TC's points of view. Most insulting of all is that you accused TC of no less than the full on support of murderers. Since then, at least from my humble perspective, TC has been in a defensive mode and you've been in denial that you made such a foolish pronouncement. I mean, perhaps not other posters, but certainly you're smart enough to know how foolish you've been. Please, give up the ego and do right.

I don't know what has happened in the last week that has made you this way and I hope whatever it is clears up soon, but you need to take a deep breath and think for a moment. I look to your words for good sense and reason. I've seen some incredible thought in your past work and I ordinarily look forward to the comments you post, in any thread. I rush through to seek them out, I kid you not.

This thread is a terrible exception. Please, review what you've done here.

Phoenix said...

Well she shouldn't have let the pregnancy get that far. It is sad but I they should have known better. The other situations would have caused them to lose their property or worse. Then what would have become of their nine year old daughter. Abortion to me really isn't a big deal. Forced abortion is though. What they should have done was let her have the baby then give it away. Then it would have at least lived. Still they should have known better.

costanza said...

Jeez Phoenix, does that cold heart of yours have a hard time beating covered in so much ice? I'm shocked by every word of your post. And if I remember correctly you aren't so fond of children anyway so why should I be surprised. Do you use abortion as a method of birth control?

Phoenix said...

Nope. I never needed to as I have chronic miscarriages. After I realized that I can't keep pregnancies I chose the best method of bc for myself. I went and got my tubes tied. There is nothing cold in my post is was merely factual. But if you'd like I can be cold. Why don't you berate me again about abortions and see where it gets you. If you remember that I am not fond of children you should also remember the pregnancy I lost - who's the cold one?

costanza said...

Phoenix,
I'm not trying to be a bitch but it just seems like you are missing a sensitivity chip and the reason I say that is mainly the way you have spoken in the past about your step-son and then some of your comments. Sorry you can't have kids but sometimes it's for the best. I can't have them either so don't think I'm picking on you about that. But yeah, I still find your post shocking. It's my opinion and nobody elses.

Hungrycollegestudent said...

Phoenix, I am also a proponent of abortion, but I agree with the others on this one. You were quite insensitive and seem to be missing the point as to why they forced her to have an abortion in the first place. They have the one child rule in place because of overcrowding. They weren't worried about her pregnancy, but rather, the consequences of another life brought into the world (specifically, brought into China). Other posters have also mentioned that the parents were not aware that the one child rule applied to them, since she lived in the country and the rules are not in play in that area. People choose to not have abortions for a number of reasons, including morals, actually wanting another child, or considering the mother's reproductive health. In this case, it seems like the mother's life is NOW in danger, as she will likely have to have further surgery to remove placenta still in her uterus. Yes, your comment was quite insensitive, and I still fail to see how forcing a woman to have a child then give it up is a better alternative to forced abortion. Both are reprehensible. I know nothing about your miscarriages or your personal view of abortion (and do believe the other person was out of line when asking if you believe whether abortion should be used as a form of BC), but as a completely objective reader with no knowledge of this information, I maintain your comment was insensitive and unnecessary.

Phoenix said...

I don't understand how I am being in sensetive. I said I agree with abortion but not forced abortion. Then I said they should have let her have the kid and put it up for adoption.

I don't see where the cold is?

Hungrycollegestudent said...

The "cold" is where you say they should have known better--almost as if they deserved what happened to them. NO ONE deserves such barbaric treatment, and in no way is it justified. Further, it's "cold" to suggest an option of coerced adoption as a reasonable alternative to forced abortion. Just my opinion, though.

Phoenix said...

Oh I see. No I don't think that's cold. They should have known better. But I did not say they deserved it, nor did I say it was right. And yes adoption would have been a better alternative to murder. but I can see how some people would think that's cold. I don't. If I were the mother I would have prefered to give my kid up for adoption instead of it being killed, they should have given her that option. Even though she didn't deserve it at all.

Does that clear it up?

MissMannah said...

I think the reason yall are thinking Phoenix is sounding "cold" is because you're going into mommy mode. That's the same reason why I said "you can tell me how heartless I am" in my reply. Go read it again, I said pretty much the same thing Phoenix did.

If there's a one-child rule, you don't get pregnant for a second time. And if you do "accidentally" get pregnant, you abort ASAP. If you don't take care of that early on, you have to know that there's a very good possibility of consequences. What would have happened if they decided to take the older daughter away? I'm guessing they probably still could, especially because the family has gone public and is bringing awareness to the issue. Doesn't it seem logical that the government is going to want to shut them up in some way or another?

Rocket Scientist said...

You guys just don't get it. The one-child rule in and of itself is a human rights violation!! Say what you will about overpopulation, but NO government has the right to tell people how many kids they can have. It is a HUGE abuse of power! The Chinese government bullies, coerces, and persecutes its own people in order to stay in power. This is another tragic example. Now this family has suffered because of this unjust law, and they suffered in a way that is illegal even by the standards of their government, and the worst part is that now they will be silenced and persecuted for doing something that every human being on this earth has a right to do: They spoke up for themselves! Governments do not have the right to persecute and abuse their people simply because they are powerful enough to do so!

Marypoppin'pills said...

Rocket Scientist,
You powerfully condensed many Readers feelings on this tragedy with your statement, mine included. Thank you.

Rocket Scientist said...

Actually, I believe the worst part is the murder of their child. But on top of the unjust law and the murder of their innocent child, they will be silenced and persecuted.

Just wanted to clarify that point.

Rocket Scientist said...

Thank you, MPP! I am passionate about this topic, as I can you and others are as well.

Rocket Scientist said...

*I can tell*

Terrible, but... said...

There are rules for a reason. She did not follow the rule, and there was a consequence. It's very sad, disgusting and horrible. But, rules are rules.

Hungrycollegestudent said...

Rocket scientist, unfortunately, they DON'T get it. :/ It is a human rights violation and even though these victims violated "rules" set forth that are completely at odds with basic fundamental rights, people apparently believe it's okay for the government to force a woman to abort and put her life in danger. These same people would probably argue for the sterilization of women that also results after accidental pregnancies, because "rules are rules." This is a disgusting mindset and diminishes my faith in the human race. How someone can have such little regard for a person's mental and physical health in the name of upholding disgusting "rules" is disheartening.

Also, if these people would read up on this, they would realize that these "consequences" (as they would call them) are actually illegal in China. In this case, "rules" ARE NOT "rules." My God, has it really come to this?

war said...

Someone mentioned that if we went in there and took over the government, it would mean WWIII. What else do you suggest we do in order to solve this problem? Is there a more just cause for war than this?

Hungrycollegestudent said...

Rocket Scientist are not proposing a solution. We are lamenting the lack of human empathy many people have regarding this flagrant disregard of human rights. We realize that this is the culture, but we are saying is that it doesn't make this okay.

Alternatively, I realize war is not the solution. The US has refused to fund the Population measures set forth by the UN in order to protest this inhumanity. Other than this, there is not much we CAN do--it must come from within China. Unfortunately.

Hungrycollegestudent said...

***Rocket Scientist and I (sorry)

Phoenix said...

Thank you MissMannah at least someone understood where I was coming from. I never once said the behavior was right nor did I say that I agreed with it.

anonymous regular reader said...

I am late to the game, but for me, TC's point is well-taken. Is this an egregious human rights violation? Of course. Does it have a place on a blog about nannies? I don't believe it does, with all due respect to the blog administrators. But if you are going to feature this because it's "so important," you should give equal coverage to female genital mutilation, child soldiers, and the like. Personally, I come here to read about nannies. If I want to read about the other stuff, I go to Amnesty International.

cali mom said...

Jumping into the fray again at this late point...

Observer, nowhere did I "insist" that you, TC or ANYONE skip a thread OR post on it. My entire point is that each person can CHOOSE for themeslves what they want to read and discuss, as someone objected to it even being here for the reason that it "might" cause people to argue and they don't like reading arguments, and then went onto argue incessantly about it.

Um...if you donh't like to read arguments, don't. Is that really so difficult of a concept to wrap your mind around?

I did not say either that people who wondered why it was posted here were baby-killers, as you have suggested. I said that the only people who were not outraged by the occurrence of this particular incident must feel that way because the couple were in apparent violation of the law. As we can see, some here are basically saying exactly that...they broke the law therefore they should have expected the consequences...

MissMannah said...

Hungrycollegestudent, don't be a jerk. NOBODY on here has said is it ok for the government to do this. It is unacceptable is every way and I said in my first post that it was horrific.

Rocket Scientist, yes it might be a human-rights violation but I happen to believe that maybe humans shouldn't have so many "rights" because some abuse those rights. Look at the Duggar family and others like that. It is a fact that our planet is over-populated and our resources will eventually run out if we stay on the course we are on. If we allow families the "right" to have 20 kids, the resources are gone a lot quicker.

And yes, I am for sterilization. I would put that Duggar woman and all her female children at the top of my sterilization list. So go one, ladies, tell me again what a heinous person I am.

Rocket Scientist said...

Wow, MissMannah. We don't have to tell you. You just made our argument for us.

Phoenix said...

i agree with fixing people too. however the Dugger woman I wouldn't. She is actually taking care of her kids. They can afford it and they are actually surprisingly still happy. Now the people who push out kids and make the gov't take care of them. They should be fixed. I also agree that people abuse their rights and should have some taken away. I say that if we limit animals from making offspring we should do it to people too. I think that people should have to have a license. Proof they can support the kid, proof that they are sound in mind and genetically fit. We have retards producing more retards. (my relatives are great example of such retards) I may have gone over the top in my explanation but that is how I feel.

Phoenix said...

I am very delighted that MissMannah shares some my views. It is very hard to find someone that has a logical mind. I don't think your heinous but that's not saying much because I am 'cold'

Rocket Scientist said...

Do you hear yourselves?? "The Duggar woman"...Really? How condescending! And MissMannah, you would sterilize the daughters, but not the sons? At least be consistent in your human rights abuses, don't add discrimination against women on top of them! I can't even get into the "retard" comment! I guess some people just don't see the value and dignity of a human life.

costanza said...

Missmannah, wow, you think you know somebody. I have to agree with Rocket Scientist here, why should all of the female Duggar kids get sterilized? They may even chose to not have ANY kids after living in such a huge family, but even then how come you don't suggest the Duggar men get clipped? Seems to me it is their little buggars that keep getting woman pregnant! Jeez, and I thought Phoenix was cold? Yeah, I apologize for that remark, you have her beat! At least, and not that I agree, she believes the people living off the system and having multiple births should be fixed (but I DO think they should be offered some kind of incentive to do it, not forced).

You scare the hell out of me, the both of you. I wonder if you would be comfortable living as a communist?

MissMannah said...

Costanza...you "think you know somebody." Have we ever met? The only costanza I know of is George.

Look, I'm not trying to be nasty and mean. Condescending...probably, but I tend to get that way, especially when talking about people who are willingly destroying the planet. OK, have it your way guys, we can sterilize the entire Duggar family. I don't want to be sexist. For the record, I was using them as an example. I do agree that people who pop kids out only to put them on welfare are much worse. My cousin is one of them, and living in England, she gets a lot more free benefits than she would here in the US. She doesn't even have to work at all, just sits on her lazy butt while her son is in school.

And I'm rambling. Anyway, to answer your communist question...yes, I would. IF it were a true communist society which, of course, cannot exist. I don't believe a class system should exist in society. Everyone should pull an equal weight and everyone should have the needs met no matter what. But the human factor always gets involved and corruption is rampant. It's a darn shame.