On Sunday September 5, 2010, I went to the park in Pacific Palisades, CA -- located next to the library. There were 2 boys, named Michael (age 4) and Johnny (age 5) with their nanny Irma. Irma was sitting at the picnic table while the boys played with my son Alex.Michael climbed onto one of the jungle gyms and was not able to get down by himself. He yelled to his nanny, "Irma, I cannot get down. Help me! Help me get down!" Michael repeated these cries of help at least 5 times. I was watching Irma to see what she would do. I expected her to get up and help him get down from the jungle gym structure (which he was on the 2nd story). She looked at him and then waved her arm with disgust and acted really annoyed and ignored his cries for help.
Again, Michael repeatedly asked for help. Finally, my son asked Johnny, "Why don't you get your mother to help your brother." My son didn't realize that it was the nanny Irma who was watching the kids.
Finally, after giving Irma many chances to do the right thing, I stand up and say, "The boy needs help. Will you help him?"
Irma comes to help Michael down from the jungle gym. But, as she passes me, she looks very annoyed and says to me, "He always does this and this will be the last time I help him. ".
Then she tells Michael, " This is the last time I will help you down.".
I was shocked that she had a hands-off approach to their care at the park and when Michael needed help, then she berated him.
When we were leaving the park, my son wanted to have a play date with the 2 boys later. I asked Johnny for his mother phone number. Johnny did not know the phone number.
Irma said that the family did not live in pacific palisades. I asked where the family lived. Irma stated Las Flores and PCH. I told her that I live in Malibu too. Irma seemed shocked. I asked Irma for the mother's number and she stated that she can arrange the playdate with me. I told her that I want to arrange the playdate with the mom and not through her. She did not want to provide me with the mother's number.
I asked to speak to Johnny . I told Johnny that I was not pleased with how Irma had ignored Michael's cries for help as he was stuck on the 2nd floor of the fire engine jungle structure. I told Johnny that I wanted to let his mother know what happened at the park. Johnny stated he did not know the number to his mother. I gave Johnny a piece of paper with my name, and phone number, and it also read, " please call me so I can tell you about your nanny.".
I told Johnny who was standing next to Irma that I wanted him to give the note to his mother. I said, "I am sure that Irma will try to take the piece of paper from you, but please try not to give it to her as the paper is for your mother."
Of note, there was another nanny there who was caring for Michael and Johnny's twin siblings who were 16 months. The other nanny for the twins did not take out either of the twins from the stroller for the entire 90 minutes that we were at the park. The 2nd nanny stated that it was Irma's first day of work, but there is no way that it was Irma first day at work based on the manner that Irma was talking to Michael.
I really wanted to let the mother know that Irma was not watching her boy's safety at the park and then blatantly ignored him when he was not able to get down safely on his own.
I did not get the name of the nanny taking care of the twins. The only reason why I know the name of the nanny Irma is that Michael was yelling her name and asking for her help and she ignored him.
69 comments:
Sorry, but I would not have given you the phone number either...you took that way too far (IMO). The nanny should not have ignored the child but for you to get all stalkerish on her was creepy and good for her for standing her ground and not giving you the information. She has no idea who you are or what you are upto-you should not be asking for stranger home info-ESP. not from the children! What kind of message are you teaching them-that it's OK to give a complete stranger your home phone number. I would be LIVID if someone asked my children for their phone number or where they lived, we try to teach our kids not to talk to strangers and you are undermining that all over a kid (not even a baby) that could not get down from a play structure. While I agree the nanny should have helped, his life was not in danger.
if it were my child i would want someone to give a darn about them. any OP in the field has the right to make decisions in the field in the best interests of a child
there sure are alot of angry and harsh posters on this site sometimes - i'm glad the OPs seem to be able to ignore most of them
I don't agree with the way you spoke to the four year old about how you were not pleased with the way his nanny was caring for him. I think that was not helpful and certainly not appropriate. It could only cause the child anxiety.
Regarding helping/not helping the child down off the climber: I don't believe a four year old who is not special needs should need help getting down from a climber that he has climbed up on. It sounds like the nanny was used to this behavior and sometimes young children do say they need help when they do not. It is a tough call especially if you don't know this child.
I don't mean to be harsh: it is great that your heart went out to this little boy. But never, never speak to a child about adult issues: if a nanny is neglecting a child (in your opinion) that is an adult issue that should not be discussed with a four year old.
I would not be happy if my child gave out a number to a stranger. You should have known better than to ask him.
I hate when people on here bash the op but I think I'll take an exception in this case.
I can not believe you had the gall to talk to the child like you did. What an idiot. You don't say shit like that to a 4yr old and I really feel sorry for your child. Do you have no concept of child development and what is appropriate to say in front of and to a child?
The nanny should have gone over and helped the child but YOU took it way to far. What happened did not require your choice of action and I applaud the nanny for not giving you the number. If I had a moron like you come up to me I certainly wouldn't give you the number and I wouldn't have allowed you to talk to my charge. I would have picked up my charge and walked away while laughing at your stupidity.
Get a life and if you're looking for drama go join a play group.
Jeez, these OP's can't win for losing. You people make me so mad!
Should the OP have said something to the child about the Nanny's behavior? Probably not. Should she have asked the child for the phone number? Again, probably not.
BUT, here we have someone who actually gives a crap trying to help a child obviously in distress. Whether the kid was really needing help or not, the Nanny should have gotten up off of her fat ass and gone over to the child and coaxed him down.
AND, all of you seem to have completely forgotten the part of OP's post that mentions 2 children STUCK in a stroller for 90 minutes! I think that is outrageous.
OP, thank you for reporting this and please ignore the negativity. I'm sure you knew when you sent this in you would be given a load of crap no matter what you did.
P.S.
You guys suck!
OP- it's really nice that you were looking out for this child, and I applaud you for directly asking the nanny to go help him when he kept calling.
I will just say that it wouldn't surprise me if the parents don't care one bit what happened at the playground- they just wanted the kids out of the house for a bit. Say what you will, but it's hard for me to imagine that parents who employ 2 weekend nannies really want to be bothered with these trivial details.
About Irma:
1. So let me get this straight, you yelled at her unnecessarily and then are somehow surprised that she didn't want to give you her employer's phone number?
2. You can't seem to comprehend that her approach may not be as cruel as you see it? The boy was stuck, not dangling. My heavens! He was in no danger. Do you really think she won't assist when it is time to go? You think she'll leave him?
RE: The other nanny
Any chance the 16-month-olds were sleeping, sleepy, eating, etc.
Had this other nanny been reading a magazine, texting, or wandering about away from the stroller, I'd see potential for something, but just because the kids were still in the stroller doesn't necessarily mean there was anything wrong.
ALL OPS - try to ignore the bitter trolls when you care about a kid and try your best, even if you are not perfect - the trolls do not matter - the child does. Please keep trying OPS, the trolls mean zilch,your actions though not perfect in a bad situation can help a child - the trolls care nothing for the child but you do!
Sharon,
Thank you for saying that! I know I for one admire anyone that has the guts to post a sighting here especially with the way some of these readers behave picking apart everything you do.
Keep sending in the sightings people, you are doing a good thing and are to be commended! These trolls that sit back and do nothing aren't worth your time, otherwise they would be sending in their sightings: showing us what is supposed to be the right way of doing it! lol
I used to tell my charges if you can get up something than you can get down. This will keep the kids challenged they will know if they get into a sticky wicket they're on their own.
I'm getting sick of people getting all hot and bothered for people "bashing" the OP. My God people: this is not fairy tale land, it's a blog. Why can we not express our opinion? Why is there a need to focus on what other people have said in order to get your point across? If you think OP did the right thing, then say it! You really don't need to bitch and moan and whine about others who do not agree with what OP said.
The idea that any negative comment on here will deter people from sending in sitings is absolutely ridiculous. It is just plain stupid and it doesn't make sense. If anything, the controversy keeps people coming back.
In my opinion, most of the negativity and swearing come from the people who are just so angry that some people don't agree with them or accept something at face value without taking it and examining it. We are not droids. We are people and we all have opinions.
It's starting to seem more and more like the majority of people who post on this site do so solely to attack the OPs. --> "You did TOO Much!!" "You did TOO Little!" Does anything please the ISYN peanut gallery? I'm sorry, but it's honestly getting to a level of ridiculousness, and I'm sure if you keep up the judgmental behavior long enough ISYN will eventually become a graveyard. It's getting to the point where potential postings will require a warning: "Danger, must posses a LARGE set of balls to post on this site. Prepare to be attacked, ridiculed and possibly mocked."
Now that the above is off of my chest, to address the issue at hand. I don't agree with the poster who stated if you can climb up onto something you can get back down. This is not necessarily true, I've known plenty of children who were capable of climbing a structure, but not entirely capable of getting back down on their own. I've also witnessed a few young children fall off of structures when attempting to climb back down. For some children it's simply easier to climb up a ladder than to turn your back and "blindly" climb back down (I've seen plenty of little feet miss the next rung on the ladder causing young children to fall the rest of the way to the ground).
Further more, an attentive *decent* nanny or childcare provider does not (under any circumstance) ignore a child they are in charge of caring for pleas for help. If this little boy was in fact capable of climbing down this structure by himself, even a mediocre nanny should get off of her (lazy) arse and verbally reassure and coach him down the structure.
Most children ask for help for a REASON (whether it be *most commonly* that they actually require help, or less commonly that they are starved for attention).
My nephew has a tendency to feel afraid coming down equipment he's capable of getting down by himself. How do I get him down when he's in my care? I certainly don't sit on my ass and sigh. I become his "cheerleader". "Come on S. you can do it. Put your hand here and your foot there" etc this builds confidence, allows the child to still climb down the structure unassisted and shows that I am reliable.
This woman's job is NOT to relax on the bench. It's to watch (and, *gasp*, interact with these children). That is entirely what she is being paid for.
Further more, I don't think she refused to give the phone number due to thinking this "oh so scary mother of another kindergartner" was stalking her; I feel she refused to give it because she realized having to be ASKED by a STRANGER to TAKE CARE of your charge isn't going to reflect too terribly well with your employers. Common sense.
Lastly, I don't honestly think the fact that the OP told the little boy that she wasn't happy with the nanny's care was a big deal either. It's not going to "scare him" (are you joking, that's absurd) but it might cause him to speak up and tell mommy! Sometimes all young children need is a little prompting to realize that something isn't right and this might have done just that. When my sister worked as a preschool teacher prior to having children one of her students only told her she was being pinched by her babysitter after a woman witnessed it in the park and told her to tell an adult! Maybe tonight when mom says "what'd you do at the park" Johnny will finally mention that his nanny enjoys the bench a hell of a lot more than she enjoys helping his brother.
Sick, I don't agree. I saw your nanny has definitely gotten more hostile throughout the years, and it used to have more sightings and more 'regulars' prior to the bitchy turn it's taken. There are times I honestly don't come on the site just to avoid the drama. I have enough excitement in my life. I also wouldn't send in a sighting unless totally necessary because I don't enjoy being attacked and judged by strangers. If you want mind numbing, brain cell executing drama go watch reality tv. I come on this site to read the sightings (as a mom who employs a nanny) and laugh at the WTF series.
wrtv:
and yet here you are, even with all the "excitement" in your life. strange.
I have been on this site for years as well. It is no different than it ever was. I think many "regulars" have stopped posting with their monikers because of people who attack them for their opinion. They are still here, as are you, as am I.
The hostility has definitely gone down since the rule of no anon postings.
The nanny is lazy and the OP is creepy. Good sighting, odd approach. The end.
The OP was appalled at the lack of care for the children, and didn't know exactly what to do. If she had calmly thought it through, she could have helped the child down, and then pretended to befriend the nanny for a play date to gain access to the Mom. Well, it's not a perfect world, and the OP was scared for the children. That could have been quite a fall, and the nanny was less than disinterested in helping, something I doubt the parents would approve. I hope they see this, and realize they are paying the nanny for very little.
I work with similarly aged boys and their parents and I are working very hard to help them be more responsible and independent.
While she could have given him some encouragement, it is not 'unsafe' to let a 4 year old climb off a play structure designed for children, I'm assuming even padded underneath with foam or sand.
A dangerous, neglectful or confrontational nanny sighting is one thing, but sometimes I think posters see anyone not providing their level of helicopter parenting as 'neglectful'.
If you ever see me at the park holding my 4-yo's hand as he climbs a tree, call my MB and DB and report me, because that's not the kind of supervision they've asked for.
What OP did was wrong. There is no evidence in the post of anything we should be concerned about.
As for Sharon:
Ever thought of addressing content directly instead of dismissing it all as trollish?
As for "Team Sharon & mom_of_one":
I am not interested in arguing with sock puppets. Take a child development class some day.
repost for anonymous:
I have to say that even though people on this site don't always handle things perfectly and some of the situations are "questionable" about what's going on I do still think this is great. It is an opportunity to get info out. If the parents of these kids do hear these stories (except for the really awful ones) I hope they do take it with a grain of salt communicate with their nanny and maybe keep a closer eye on things. I want bad nannies to stop watching children but I also would hate for a great nanny to loose a job over a misunderstanding. Just some thoughts!
sock puppets?
repost for anonymous:
you should post this to peachhead website. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/peachhead2/
i would want to know if that was my nanny
I don't think that you handled that very well at all. You basically told that little boy to not listen to his nanny, go behind his nanny's back, and then talk bad about her.
Your kids must have great morals.
repost for anonymous:
Interesting comments but If I pay someone to care for my children I want them to get off the park bench and go help my child get down or up or in and out ! That is what she is getting paid for ,not to tell him to get down himself. Period. I am glad you people are not getting paid to watch kids. Who the hell is this woman that sits on the park bench with 2 kid for 90 minutes and they don't get out to play?? Make excuses all you want for these lazy people, they are to be taking care of your kids , playing with them at the park and making sure they are safe and if they are too lazy to help a kid off a 2nd floor climbing structure then they have NO business to watch kids. I don't need my kids coming home with broken bones because "he does this all the time" crap. think more people who spot these neglegent people need to call the cops on them. Forget asking for phone numers or talking to the neglected kids, call the cops. Take pictures and post them around to see if anyone knows the parents. Some of these MOMS in here don't want you to ask the kid for a phone number because they don't care if their kid is being abused or negelected they just want to run their mouths at the OP's. Maybe those parkbecnh nannies are just acting like the parents do at home??
A kid life is in daner when they have climbed up on something and cannot get down. That why we see kids in wheelchairs, from neck injuries. Broken bones . I would not be livid if someone asked my kid for our phone number since they don't answer the phone, at least I would want to know why they wanted it and not berate someone who was trying to tell me my kid was being ignored by the person I pay big $$ to every week.
Try paying attention to what the posters are saying instead of hopping up amd blasting them .
yes thanks! i will be on the TEAM that advocates activism in the field on behalf of a child and while discussion is great, taking a fine tooth comb while attacking the OPs every move is not going to be my agenda.
ya know, this reminds me of something - relevant or not i don't know. i have a friend who was neglected with questionable caregivers when we were kids in the 70's. She is very well adjusted but receiving therapy - her therapist asked her to call all her friends including me and my parents and ask if we remembered any incidents in which she was treated inappropriately and we came up with numerous incidents and emailed them to her - she called me and my family "heroes" for at least NOTICING something was wrong.
In the 70's you were not allowed to respond when you saw a kid being treated wrong, it was none of your business -(my dad did respond for this friend) but today, we are allowed to be heroes - and we need all the heroes we can get on this site even if the nay sayers nit pick at them - OPS - you are still heroes at least for trying!!
I am all for learning independence, but the least the nanny could do was to engage the child and to reassure him. She was obviously annoyed about having to do something that was part of her job. Does that make her a terrible nanny? Well, I am not so sure.
I am also all for respect and tolerance and I realize that most posters mean well, but it does not sound very wise to me to berate a nanny to her five-year-old charge and to ask for the mother's phone number.
Well said, Sharon. I'm so glad we have you to speak up in favor of the OP's because it seems that most of them rarely post back after putting up their sighting. Maybe they are afraid that if they respond it will be "feeding the trolls." I just don't understand why everyone has to be so nasty. Having an opinion and giving it is one thing but to attack the OP's for trying to do the right thing just smacks of immature nastiness.
And I ADMIRE each and every one of the OP's that are BRAVE enough to post on this Blog and I hope they keep them coming! At least we have them looking out for the best interest of the children.
And as I said before, you know what I would like to see? Any one of these people on here that have butchered an OP's sighting to put up one of their own, showing us exactly how it is supposed to be done! Come on guys, I challenge you! Tell us the right way to report, approach the nanny or the kids, the description, everything that was said and done, etc.
I don't think it would be so easy.
Ironically, people posting on this board don't view a nanny as your employee who is being employed to take care of their children and not sit on their ass.
Nanny's in Los Angeles make $2500 month net, that isn't what you pay a 13 y/o to babysit. For that amount, I expect close supervision.
We have fired one nanny after finding her open emails on our computer and her hostility towards children. A friend fired his nanny for incidents that "didn't endanger the child." The nanny cam caught her sitting in front of the TV all day and ignoring the child.
Sure he wasn't in danger, but WTF, that person is being paid well to take good care of the children.
If one of my friends saw my nanny behaving in this manner, would I want to know about it?? Hell yes.
Calling an OP BRAVE is like calling that JETBLUE guy a hero. Let's not minimize the meaning of bravery.
It's a blog on the internet...not the front line in Iraq.
I think the OP was way out of line attacking the nanny. Unless you are a nanny who has worked 50+hours a week you have no right to attack that nanny. I'm sure I'll get bashed for this but whatever. A nanny needs a break every once in awhile. If the children are not of napping age which these kids are not the nanny needs a break. As with any other job you get a break. He wasn't going to die on the jungle gym. I have cared for children more than capable of navigating a jungle gym at a much younger age than 4. The park is often a break for these nannies and if the children arent in danger I think its a great place to get a break. Better than putting them in front of the tv right? Maybe all you people applauding the OP have encouraged nannies to do is to plop them in front of the tv for fear of getting written up by people like the OP.
Wow!I had no idea that posting this incident would be like this. I had never visited this site up until yesterday.
I just thought this would be a good website to report my observations on Irma and the other nanny in hopes that the mother of Johnny, Michael and twin boys would somehow find this post.
What the parent would do with this information would be up to the parents of these 4 children.
I stand by what I did and would do it again. I am a physician and I feel confident in being able to assess a potentially dangerous situation with a 4 yo Michael feeling that he could not get down safely and Irma blatantly ignored him and his cries for help.
Bottom line for me: I would want to know about this behaviour if Irma or the other nanny was being employed by me.
This post was for the benefit of the parent or parent's friend to see it. Shocking that people would rather criticize my method rather than focus on the fact that there is a safety issue and lack of attention or wanting to help a child who is feeling scared.
The situation still stands that I do not approve of the fact that Irma was negligent regarding the safety of a 4 yo who was calling for help multiple times.
The litmus test for me taking the time to post this incident on this website is "would I want to know about it?".
I do think that the parents of these children would not be annoyed or think I was a stalker to inform them of the fact that Irma couldn't be bothered to help her charge get down safely from the 2nd floor fire truck structure.
I am sure the parents would want to know thrilled to know that the 16 month old twins (who were not sleeping or eating) were brought to a park, only to sit in their strollers while Irma and the other nanny socialized in Spanish with to 2 other nannies at the park bench.
Probably OP. I'm sure they'd be grateful to know about it...but I'm also sure they'd be slightly taken aback by your aggressive approach with their son. In my opinion, this was clearly a legit sighting, exactly what this website is here for, but again, your approach was strange and a little inappropriate.
And to the poster who was defending this nanny's behavior claiming "we all need a break," you're making the rest of us look bad. Don't use that defense again.
Oh I forgot physicians know everything. Well that made me change my mind. I fully trust your judgment because you are a physician. WOW - what a crass statement. Seriously that was really tacky.
I stand by my opinion you shouldn't have said that stuff to the kid. Just left it alone and reported it here.
Physician... LMFAO
I was once a nanny to a couple and they were both doctors. They were so stupid that I was embarrassed to work for them. The only reason why they were physicians was that their mummies and daddies paid for them to go to school for a million and a half years.
Anybody could be a doctor. They get paid like a celebrity to stand around and do nothing.
Orangegrape - let me guess, you're a park bench nanny, right?
How the hell do you know this nanny worked 50+ hours a week? Maybe she was just PT, and still a lazy bitch?
First, let me apologize for the lengthiness of my reply. I can be wordy, but not usually THIS wordy! Just don't know how to shorten this one.
I have always refrained from posting general laments about ISYN, but the responses to this posting just go too far. I truly do not understand the reasoning behind the CONSTANT unrelenting attacks on pretty much every OP. Perhaps it is because I am a parent and not a nanny. I see a true divide in these responses and all similar ones between parents and nannies. No need to reply with all the exceptions. I am not claiming an absolute divide, just a general pattern. There are certainly some great nannies on here that impress me with their thoughtfulness and ability to see the situation objectively (Village, Jacqui, Tales from the Nanny Hood jump to mind). The parents reading these OPs generally think, "If this were my child and my caregiver, would I want to know?" If the answer is yes, that's it (as father of 3 and OP also said). Siting appreciated, regardless of potential disagreements about method. The benefits of identifying a bad nanny FAR outweigh any issues I might have with an OP's approach.
However, it seems nannies approach this from a more personal, and for lack of a less provocative word, defensive POV. I am admittedly making some assumptions since I am not currently a nanny, though did work as a pt nanny and did lots of sitting in college. However, it seems the nanny approach seems to be less child-centered and more focused on:
-trying to envision possible benign explanations for the siting nanny's behavior
-drawing correlates to their own experience as a nanny and using these as excuses for siting nanny's behavior
-removing focus from siting nanny onto OP and attacking the OP, while making a vague dismissive comment about possible siting nanny's bad behavior
-using each OP as an opportunity to lament all the busybody parents, bad employers, and misunderstood nanny experiences had in your own work experience (and, again, completely taking focus off the siting nanny's behavior)
How about a completely different focus for these nanny sitings? Perhaps everyone could identify where they live and try to help the child in the siting. Put the kids first, and your own issues much further behind. If you live in an area nearby, make an effort to at least examine the possibility that the siting is legit. Print out a copy of all siting in your area. Take them with you whenever you go out. Keep an eye out for caregivers in ISYN sitings. Then, follow-up! If you see the caregivers in a siting, pay extra attention. Watch closely. Gather information. And try to help. Post follow-up info on ISYN and try to connect to original OPs. Work together to help the kids, instead of fighting or being defensive. Yes, I already do this. No, I have not yet seen a f/u, but I'll keep looking. I imagine it might be a better chance of getting a f/u in a smaller area outside of NYC. Anyway, I am not claiming this is the end-all perfect solution. Just trying to suggest a different approach and provoke some thought about the bigger picture. I think we've lost sight of the goal.
To be cont . . .
. . . cont
Also, I simply don't get how people can vehemently attack ANY OP about the details of the witnessed event. We were not there. OP was. I have posted one or two sitings on here before and can say that it is A LOT of effort to make a good report. You have to do a lot of observing and, for me, I had to write down a lot of details so I didn't forget. Then go home and write it all up. It took a significant amount of time and effort, not a 5-minute affair. Also, in the write-up you are really forced to re-examine the situation and make sure you think it warrants a report. So, barring some sort of personal vendetta, I think OPs post a siting out of genuine concern and good intentions. I don't think people are purposely manufacturing details or exaggerating events.
OP was there. She saw the kid on the structure. She obviously felt the 4yo had climbed too high, was scared, and needed help. She also observed the nanny to completely ignore the child in a way that struck her (the person actually there!) as uncaring, uninvolved, and unkind. Next, she observed 16mo twins strapped into strollers at a park for 90mins, not sleeping or eating (though, of course, everyone felt the need to pipe in with possible excuses for the nanny's negligence). I just don't get how these common bad nanny behaviors are so difficult to accept: ignoring a child; not interacting with them when the child needs or wants help; using park time as an opportunity for personal group nanny talk sessions; stroller training toddlers. I mean, who hasn't seen this garbage time and time again? Why on earth would OP manufacture it? And WHY do some many respondents feel a need to make excuses for the nannies or try to explain it away as parental choice? Even if it IS parental choice (i.e. the parents of these kids have asked nanny to encourage independence and leave them stranded on top of the jungle gym because the repeated climbing up is in fact a problem) - wouldn't it be better for an OP to report it and let the parents in question make that determination?
I do think there is legitimacy to some of the concerns over how OP handled the situation in speaking with the children. I personally think she did the best she could under the circumstances. Ideally, she would have stealthily befriended the bad nannies, played along and gotten parent contact info. But life rarely works that easily and I think she did just fine. However, I absolutely respect the alternative opinions and think that expressing them is reasonable. But NOT to the point of completely obliterating the purpose of the OP and NOT to the point of somehow turning OP into the villain in this story.
That is the heart of the problem with ISYN postings lately. OPs should be appreciated for the effort and their report should be accepted as a valid observation since they were the ONLY person there. Then, critique of their actions should be secondary, NOT the primary focus which is pretty much what things have deteriorated to lately. To point, read the first 4 replies and see that the 3 attacking OP barely acknowledge the concerns over the bad nannys. One even goes so far as to applaud the bad nanny and OF COURSE, the or puts herself in the bad nanny's shoes (my point about the nannies here who over-personalize and defend every siting) and tells OP just how she would have taken OP down if OP ever tried to do such a horrid thing to her.
to be cont . . .
the end (finally!) . . .
However, "sick" is correct. It's the controversy that keeps people coming back, especially the not-so-nice ones who thrive on it. So, sadly, "Team Sharon," the place won't become a graveyard. It will just keep morphing as it has been. It's now rarely a place where parents come to legitimately review sitings. It's mostly a place where the occasional truly outraged OP posts a siting. The regulars keep hanging on, though with less frequency. I think the only group increasing is the subpar nannies worried that they will be the subject of a siting - thus the increase in defensiveness and the rabid "defend the bad nanny and attack the OP" at all cost mentality. Sigh, rant over. JD and MPP, I still think you guys are doing a great job and really respect the hard work and dedication you put in! I'll still be here and promise to limit any future long, boring rants of my own.
(why do ppl continue to post anonymous?)
Geez bashers. This person was doing her very best to protect these children since the person hired to care for them was clearly not doing her job. You weren't there and you don't know exactly what happened. Obviously the situation warranted the need to contact the parent and if asking the children required that, then so be it. If this nanny was so uncaring in a public place, just imagine how she is behind closed doors. What if that was your nanny? Wouldn't you want to know about the neglect and the blatant disregard of your child? Sure the child wasn't dangling but why would you wait until that happened. Head injuries can happen in an instant and when you ignore a child who is calling for help, you are telling them that they are safe when they clearly may not be. He trusted that nany enough to ask for her help and she gave no reassurance. That might send a message that it was ok to jump down. He could have had a fatal injury and what then? That could have been avoided. I sure as heck applaud her for doing the right thing. This nanny showed no love or reassurance and didn't even help this child to problem-solve. I definitely would want to know if the person I hired was not caring for my child properly. The child's safety is first and foremost. Shame on you haters for your comments. You weren't there and you didn't witness for yourself what happened. Why wait until the child gets hurt. Prevention is everything.
nycmom,
Long, boring rant? Hardly! Thank you so much for putting into words at least how I feel sometimes.
I admit I have concern over OP's no longer posting their sightings for fear of being attacked.
I hope it never comes to that.
Jumping ahead here. Sorry, but there is a lot to read and I just have to say that it's very practical advice to remind a young child to be very careful when climbing UP something if you're not sure you can climb back DOWN. A four year old who repeatedly scampers to the top of something and then makes a game of demanding that someone run over to "help" them get down is a very tiresome thing.
Just piping up again to say HOLY CRAP! If it's "brave" to post on a blog where someone might be so evil, soul-crushing, mean, hostile, and downright belligerent enough to disagree with you then...you must be 3 months old. Go suck on your blankie and go back to sleep. I thought only grownups were allowed to post sightings?!
calimom,
you must be blind as a bitch if you think that all who post here are grown-ups, yourself included!
I think that the nannies in this forum feel like it is a personal attack on them when one is witnessed doing a subpar performance in THEIR JOB. If you are taking care of a child, you need to be on your A-Game 100 percent of the time, not 80 percent. When I lived in AZ, we had a drowning a week of small children because the responsible adult would have a momentary lapse in judgement. If you feel like you can slack of and let the child under YOUR responsibiity do whatever he wants because you are tired, get another job. The good nannies that I have met take care of the children like a family member, i.e. nephew, brother, etc...the one's that aren't worth a crap are the ones who see it as only a job. Hmm, sounds just like the criticism that you guys would give a physician. No difference, you are caring for an individual who needs YOUR help. No more, no less. When someone does less than their job, physicians get hammered with lawsuits, complaints against their medical license, bad business rep. When a nanny does a less than stellar job, she gets another job where another child is endangered.
As I said before, if this were my child, I would want to know about it, regardless of who the caretaker was, i.e. grandparent, older sibling, nanny or friend, because I would never want to entrust my children to this individual again.
"...sometimes I think posters see anyone not providing their level of helicopter parenting as 'neglectful'."
AMEN!
There are nannies that really are more like teachers than a nanny/baby-sitter/child companion. Some do actual work with the children to help them grow and learn. There is NO tv, and nearly constant stimulating activity, with appropriate breaks for children, which are not breaks for a nanny. They can't take a break and sit down while a kid plays on equipment that is meant for children, not adults?
Not to mention, the kid may have done the same thing a hundred times, for days and weeks before the final straw. You may have missed the part/day/minute where the nanny said 'you keep on doing this, and then you cannot get down, if you cannot get down on your own, then do not keep doing it-I am not going to come every time you freak out when you know what is going to happen. Enough'. Then the kid does it again, because that's what kids do, and she lets him hang to realize she means business. Kids need lessons in life, too.
Children are precious, delightful, sweetness and light, fine. They can also be spoiled, annoying, and demanding and exhausting. ANY parent will agree to that, and if they don't, they are lying.
It's not any different than when a parent wants to leave a park and the kid won't leave, won't leave, won't leave, and the parent goes 'okay bye, then, cause I am leaving' and waves and makes it look like they are actually going. OMG call the abuse hotline, I guess, right?
Father of 3, your kids will clearly never learn anything of value, and will be entitled, spoiled brats. Congrats on that.
Actually I have 3 well rounded straight A students who also participate in daily extracurricular team sports. Let's not get too personal with the attacks.
Who do I have to credit my children's behavior? The adult role models in their lives including: nannies, other family members, coaches and friends. To think a child's success or failures are all from the Mother and Father is laughable, at best.
I am about watching out for those who can't protect themselves. Isn't that what this forum is for??
no sickness and no thanks ! ;0) Heroes are welcome on this site ! All you have to do is NOTICE when a little one is being treated wrong! As the other posters said - take the time and effort to be offended, even scared, take notes and take the time to document it, just do your best. If you are super-brave - intervene with caution - but then expect the monday morning quarterbacks in their comfortable chairs to rage and rant. But - ignore the negative - you stood up for a child !! I will keep reading!!
It's one thing to worry about a pattern of senseless attacks on the posters of sightings, it's quite another to senselessly attack people bringing honest criticism because it happens to be criticism.
Many of you rushed to defend OP because you felt Irma stayed put for 90 minutes, but OP didn't say that. OP said the other nanny, of the 16-month-olds, stayed put for 90 minutes. I dare to say there may be perfectly reasonable explanations for her behavior given what few details we have.
OP included a lot about her conversations with Johnny, but so little about what led her to believe the other nanny was being neglectful. Were the children awake, struggling to get out of the stroller and kicked with an iron boot? Or were they sleeping with an attentive nanny who just happened to be sitting on a bench?
Skimming and anger, these are the worrying trends of ISYN. OP, talking to the child in the fashion you did was just wrong. That isn't you kid, you don't tell him to disobey his nanny. As for the gym, if the child was in danger, why didn't you mention his dangling or something that would make it clearer that he was in danger and not just stuck? Why can't you see why we'd wonder if it could be nothing at all?
I had a cousin who was entirely capable of climbing down those sort of things but she'd call for help because the part she enjoyed was climbing up. You'd have thought my uncle a monster for forcing her to climb down herself the third or forth time. He isn't by any means.
This is America. With every sighting an accusation is made, mother, nanny, friend, aunt, uncle or whatever, I believe in a presumption of innocence. I will always try to find the innocuous things that may be misinterpreted. Because we unfortunately do live in a society that misinterprets a lot, and blows a lot out of proportion.
This doesn't mean I don't appreciate the sighting, but rather let's face it, the chances that any nanny in any sighting will have a chance to defend themselves here is slim to nil.
Why do I have to be a troll, or an emotionally invested nanny, or a bad nanny, or an idiot, because I disagree with you?
It's something to think about.
Observer:
this is the best post ever. by far. Bravo!!!!
why is it such a big deal to the moderators that people use a moniker? What is wrong with posting anonymously? Is it so you can track people down if they don't agree to your point of view? What is the purpose of posting comments if you are to be known? Just curious!
Thank you, obsever! I am so sick of people calling anyone who dares to question and/or criticize the OP "bashers". I'm not even a nanny, and I think that the way OP handled the situation was totally wrong. If I saw a child who was truly in danger dangling off a jungle gym, I wouldn't wait around for his nanny to come get him, I would get him down myself, because it is instinctive to help others who are in immediate danger. Because OP was standing around watching and waiting for the kid's nanny to come help him down, I'm going to draw the conclusion that he was not actually in danger. And, as someone who has worked in childcare before, I know that kids definitely sometimes try and take the easy way out by having adults "help" them with something instead of challenging themselves by doing it alone. If you keep helping them do things they are perfectly capable of doing themselves, you are NOT really helping them, just spoiling them and preventing them from being independent. Also I found the way OP approached the child very aggressive and inappropriate.
There. My legitimate criticism of the OP. It has just as much of a right to be here as any other comment. MPP and Jane, if you don't want people disagreeing with the OP, disable the commenting feature. You can't demand that people only praise the OP. That totally defeats the point of a blog. I'm sure you can change the settings so that comments can no longer be added on posts. If people won't post sightings because they are afraid of what some people on the Internet might say to them, then those people don't really care about the welfare of the child, only their own feelings.
well said, let's get real.
better yet, perhaps the blog administrators should just moderate the comments and post only those praising the OP for their bravery and wonderful posts. I have read plenty of blogs and commented on them with my posts never appearing because the blog administrators want their blogs to appear fancy and amazing and in complete support of their ideas. It's a little thing called censorship.
However, from what I have seen of isawyournanny, the blog administrators were never like that. Perhaps the blog is going in a different direction. So sad.
I wonder if this post will get deleted....
The OP telling the kid that his nanny was bad is like a nanny telling his/her charge - "Your mom sucks 'cause she forgot to pay me this week..." - really, really wrong.
wow...
The hate in many of these comments in breathtaking!!
Thanks, nycmom, for taking the time to post--I agree completely!!
As a nanny, I do see many other nannies--most of them wonderful. If I saw a bad nanny, I would be much more likely to simply call the police or try to contact the family on my own--JUST because so many posters pick the OP apart. Even if I posted a *good* nanny sighting, I would probably be torn apart and likely accused of fabricating some story about myself.
It's very sad that people have turned this sight into such a bitchfest... Good luck MPP!!
Um, TheOriginalDenverNanny, you SHOULD call the police or try and contact the parents on your own if you see a bad/dangerous nanny. That is way more helpful than posting on a blog that they may or may not read. These sightings are posted as a sort of last ditch effort to get the parents to realize what is going on if there was no other way for the OP to get in touch with them. I would hope that waiting until you got home to post on ISYN wouldn't be your first reaction if the situation was serious enough to warrant police intervention.
There's a difference between attacking the OP and offering a different interpretation of events. As observer said, a sighting IS an accusation, so I think it warrants looking at the situation from all angles. I absolutely abhor the name-calling and derogatory remarks directed towards people who disagree with one another. Things are not always so black and white- OP doesn't have to be either right or wrong, the nanny doesn't have to be either good or bad, the situation doesn't have to be either safe or unsafe...all these things are somewhat open to interpretation, and I believe there should be space to (respectfully) voice all of these perspectives on this site.
What if the nanny told the boy not to go to the second level if he couldn't get down? What if he could get down but wanted attention?
I wouldn't have given my number to you. I wouldn't have allowed you to give that not to the child.
Asking for the child's number was kind of weird too. I would have thought maybe you were a molester or something.
The child was not in danger. I would have minded my own business.
Well said "another nanny" I think people look at it wayyy to black and white. I've been with my half sister who is 5 and she'll do a lot of things just to attention. Screaming fits, pretending she's helpless on the play ground etc. I've had my fair share of mean and nasty looks directed my way but my father and stepmother have told me to ignore her when she does this. They firmly don't believe in giving into that behavior because it only reinforces that if she does it, she'll get attention. The only part of this post that really makes me question if that was what the nanny was doing is her response. If someone approached me and accused me of neglect, I would certainly tell them that she was more than capable of going down the slide herself and I'd been instructed not to give in her to begging and crying. The fact that the nanny did not offer this information makes me think it was a bit more neglectful than following the parent's preferences.
God forbid I should ever run into you with my own child, whom I encourage to be self-reliant at the playground ALL THE TIME.
Let's get real,
"There. My legitimate criticism of the OP. It has just as much of a right to be here as any other comment. MPP and Jane, if you don't want people disagreeing with the OP, disable the commenting feature. You can't demand that people only praise the OP. That totally defeats the point of a blog. I'm sure you can change the settings so that comments can no longer be added on posts."
There is a big difference between constructive criticism/opinion and the complete bashing of an OP. The latter is what we do not welcome here.
See? Your comment has not been removed!
Russian girls/women also = stuck up, bitchy, snobby, entitled, spiteful, and mean spirited.
The only "sighting-worthy" event I see here was the nanny who left the twins in the stroller for 90 minutes, which OP seemed to just tack on as an afterthought. I tend to be in the school of thought that if children always ask for help, they'll never learn to do for themselves. I just couldn't believe OP asked the boy for his phone number! Stranger danger, anyone??
Someone here mentioned something about calling the police that made me LOL. "Officer come quick! There's a little boy stuck on the jungle gym and his nanny wants him to climb down by himself!"
MissMannah, my thoughts EXACTLY.
It is every bit as unacceptable to approach a small child and try to wheedle their phone number out of them as it is to offer them candy, telling them they must eat the candy in a secret place so their mommy doesn't get mad at them. C R E E P Y.
OP, how would you feel if some stranger tried to coax your 4 year old to give out their phone number because they saw you talking on your cell phone at the playground and judged your actions to be "neglectful"? It's great that you're concerned for the safety of a child but this is like handing a shotgun to a 2 year old so he can "defend himself from bad guys".
This is stupid. The OP saw this nanny ONE TIME. How can you know what a person is like by first appearances?
Jacqui...I love your views.
Sharon...don't dismiss things as trolls, its rude.
Everyone here has to realize that both the OP and the Nanny are human beings. We can't expect both to be super people.
about the babes in the stroller, perhaps it was nap time or they were eating, OP never mentioned the nanny strayed away or left the stroller unoccupied. Heck, maybe the 16 month year olds didn't want to leave their stroller. You don't know the situation so don't ever assume you do.
Furthermore, like I said before, we don't know anything factual about this nanny besides the fact that she didn't help her charge down. I think that would be okay in certain circumstances besides the fact that the OP said she gave him a look of disgust. I don't think the nanny was the perfect nanny, and if this was how she was everyday I would not hire her myself. Yet, I don't think OP handled this right.
The OP talking to the nanny's charge was NOT appropriate, you don't tell a child their nanny is bad and to hide things from their nanny. What kind of crap does that teach a child?
However, I do think this was a good sighting besides how the OP handled it. BTW I'M NOT A TROLL. I'm a human being too.
I am not coming back to this blog for a while. I have been posting here for 2 years or so, but lately this place has become twisted and crooked. People go off on tangents and it becomes quite nasty. I don't know if everyone has Auntie Flo visiting or what. If I wanted to deal with people shouting over each other I'll watch Bill O'Reily.
WBN
why all the op bashing? I honestly think people come on here just to bash the OP no matter what was said and it really makes for an annoying read. I take the same opinion as the OP, "If these were my kids would I want to know about it?" The nanny is getting paid to INTERACT with the kids, was she? No.
I think a note was a creative way and her son wanted a playdate so she asked for the phone number. Granted, there were other reasons but the son wanted a playdate.
Also, both of those nannies do not sound like good ones and if I were the parents I would want to know!
Yes, I understand that there are reasons Irma didn't want to get him down but ignoring him? She could have told him, "why don't you try to come down" or something nice. If she ignores him at the playground when else does she ignore him?
i think what some of us were trying to say is that instead of a discussion or different interpretation we have a significant number of posters attacking the op - actually any op- with a tone that can be interpreted as hostile and angry.
There was an op just recently that was physically attacked by a crazy nanny, the op ,shocked, backed away in fear and the hostile posters attacked the op for not doing enough
Now we've got this op who made decisions in the field which could be discussed/improved/changed but the op is being treated as crazy or a criminal by some posters, not all
those of us who love this site have noticed that some OPs are in fact afraid to post because of the "flamers". Of course a discusssion is reasonable,of course different views are reasonable, but to attack the character and judgement of someone who just tried to help a kid - that is just wrong
I dont agree with the way the nanny spoke with Michael. But she was right on not giving you the mom's phone number. As a nanny myself i would NEVER give my employers information to a stranger. Totally out of question. And the way you approached Michael with the note was PATHETIC. You should not talk to a 4 years old about adults stuff. I feel sorry for you son to have a mother like that. You should mind your own business. You are not the one who pays her salary.
It seemd to me that the nanny was used to the boys behavior. And you never know if she was having a bad day or whatever. The boy is 4 years old totally capable of getting down the climber. its so funny when i take my kids to the park and i see parents on the phone, reading a book not paying attention at all to their kids. And when one of my kids fall, because they were running or something... not a big deal... they come to me and think i am not doing a good job as a nanny when they dont even look at themselves and see that they are not even paying attention to their own kids. Its so easy to judge people. Specially when it is about other peoples kids.
Please, grow up!mind your business and stop trying to make a big deal of small stuff. I bet your not even close to become a perfect mother.
I agree that there is alot of bashing on these comments, but it seems to me that the OP defenders are the more spiteful of the two so-called groups, even though they claim the oppsite is true. Calling an entire group of people trolls is so rude I could not even believe I was reading it! The point of having a comment is page is so that people can comment on the issue at hand, not engage in name-calling and playground level arguments. As for the idea that someone would be scared to post a sighting, who are we trying to kid here? This is an anonymous forum. What mature adult is actually frightened of receiving anonymous criticism? None of the commenters have any idea who the OP is in real life. Please, let's just stick to the issues here.
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