.... WHAT?!
Feature:
1) BDSM Lifestyle Couple seeking Babysitter (New York)
BDSM couple living in Manhattan seeks kinky babysitter. We may be looking for someone to travel with the mom or both of us in the future as well. We really want someone who is into the BDSM lifestyle. CHILD WILL NEVER BE EXPOSED TO ADULT ACTIVITY. If interested, please write at least a couple of sentences about yourself and we can arrange for an interview.
URL: http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/kid/1857824222.html
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49 comments:
I don't know what the true WTF was this week, so I may need help:
The picture of the old guy in the thong
The ad that said she worked in the school district and couldn't spell
The ad that pays $0.25 per hour
All three of these things
MPP: Now I know why we waited so long-again! Great job!!!
my favorite is most absolutely the job where you have to bring your own food. seriously? has the person ever even had a babysitter?
I had to post a CL reply to the one who offered "lunch and a good reference" to whoever was willing to care for her kids for 40+ hours a week for FREE.
cali mom- there were numerous ads this week that wanted "live-ins" with no pay. One even said that the job didn't make enough money to save any. Ridiculous!
The $0.25 an hour one was priceless. I have four kids and couldn't imagine offering my sitter a quarter an hour AND expecting her to do heavy housekeeping (ironing, bathrooms, etc!).
The one with the little boy who expected her nanny to bring her own lunch and expected her to do heavy duty cleaning on downtime was absolutely ridiculous.
All in all, I know times are hard, but everyone has to make sacrifices. The last thing my husband and I would skimp on is our babysitter's pay (we only use a sitter for date nights and we, admittedly, have cut back on the number of those we go on, but she still makes her regular $14 an hour when we do go out). It's just astounding how many people think it's OK to only pay someone $2 an hour or $20 a day because it's "such easy work!" Yes, it's "easy work" when the child is sleeping, but what happens in an emergency? Typically, the people who are willing to work for such small amounts of money are the ones who wouldn't know what to do when an emergency did arise.
Ugh, there were some dandy ones this week MPP!!
I admit it is a hell of a job putting these together but I enjoy doing it each and every week!
Thanks to everyone for all of the great comments and to those that take the time to send in those crazy Ads!
I'd give money to know the story behind that picture...
On the "bring your own food" issue: I actually have worked (and still do) for a family that requested I bring my own food. The parents are both school teachers and therefore have a limited income. They choose to invest wisely in a good nanny and cut back elsewhere like we so often suggest!
If I babysit, I'm welcome to anything, since I'm usually there until late in the night. I don't see a problem with this considering the federally mandated 30 minute lunch break isn't enough time to go get food & eat so without specifically stating it, most jobs require you pack a lunch or order in.
Just a thought. :)
The 2nd ad from Fresno offering lunch and a reference was posted again today I believe on craigslist. I can't imagine why she hasn't been able to find anyone a week later, lol.
I can actually understand why the BDSM couple would want a nanny who also enjoyed the lifestyle. People are extremely judgmental. A friend of mine lost custody of her son in a nasty divorce because her ex-husband brought up the fact she was in a consensual BDSM relationship. Her child had never, ever been exposed to anything inappropriate. Just the fact she was in the relationship at all was enough. And this is not an isolated incident. It happens more than I care to say.
So, yeah, I can totally understand that one.
Nevermind the childcare (which I would NEVER even WANT someone to do for a quarter an hour) but, geesh, if someone can actually get housekeeping for a quarter an hour please sign me up!! I cannot imagine putting an ad out there for even ONE of those tasks offering .25 an hour and expecting a single reply. My house would be SOOO much cleaner if this was a reality! Just kidding, of course, I would never DO that. It just seems to me that no one would ever even think that was gonna work out...sorry it's really blowing my mind!! Lol! On a more serious note, these people should really consider the fact that the only people who may find these offers inticing are perverts and criminals/burglers. Anyone that's gonna come into your home for 12 hours of work (and hard work at that!) a day to bring home $3.00 (!) a day will without a shadow of a doubt be planning on getting something else out of it. Scary!
Wow. A quarter an hour. My parents paid me more than that to do chores around the house when I was 10!
These are the most amazing ads I've seen so far! Good job everybody. Thanks MPP!
I was so sure #2 was going to have a final sentence stating "This job would be ideal for a homeless person." 10 hours of air conditioning and a free lunch. And since it basically states if you don't need a reference, you don't have to do a good job, there's no pressure, really.
Do you think the 25 cent ad was real? It seemed a little over-the-top, and a quarter an hour to boot. That's even LESS than a free lunch.
I'm sorry but after reading #2, I got physically ill and had to stop. :( What is wrong with these people?????????? "If you do a good job I'll give you food and a reference"????????
Someone needs to dope slap that woman. :( Imagine!!!
Gracefire,
that behavior is really unacceptable to be doing in a home where there is children. Your friend should have lost custody and I'm glad she did. Sheesh. sicko.
I always bring my own food to my job. I refuse to let my bosses be responsible for my lunch and snacks.
Since my MB is a WAHM we sometimes go out for lunch together, but usually I pack a lunch in the morning. I don't understand why people think this is terrible. It was my idea, and I'm glad I do it because my bosses? Really suck at buying groceries. Some days I'm lucky there's anything in the house the baby can eat, I'd hate to have to feed myself from that fridge as well, especially since I like to eat healthy.
perverts- what is done behind closed doors in a person's home is their business and if their children are NOT aware or involved then why should you worry? You probably think that gay couples are the work of the devil too and that children should never be subjected to that also. It's people like you that make this world a sick place.
no moniker:
so if a parent is smoking crack, it is ok as long as their children do not see it?
and no, I am not homophobic. I just call a spade a spade and if you get off by someone whipping you, hurting you, and treating you with disrespect, you should wait until your kids are out of the house to engage in such sick acts.
if you get off on that stuff, there is something wrong with you. I'm as liberal as the next person, but that stuff is perverted and you should not be doing it in a house with children.
you're the sicko if you think that is ok. grow up.
I can actually understand why the BDSM couple would want a nanny who also enjoyed the lifestyle. People are extremely judgmental. A friend of mine lost custody of her son in a nasty divorce because her ex-husband brought up the fact she was in a consensual BDSM relationship.
Why on earth would a nanny have to have ANY idea of what a BDSM couple is doing in private behind their closed bedroom doors? There is no reason for a couple to require that their nanny approve of or share their sadistic sexual practices. And why did your friend's ex know that she was in a BDSM relationship -- wasn't that private between just the two of them?
obviously it was not private because the "friend" blabbed to everyone, not realizing that if you don't conform to some of society's rules, or at least have too big of a mouth to keep your own secrets, you sometimes lose your kids. again, I'm glad she lost custody. she should have.
To perverts and djembe:
Wow, what arguments! How am I ever going to respond to such intellectual discourse? Oh, wait, I know. I will use logic!
Smoking crack and getting off on some one spanking you are two totally different things. Smoking crack impairs your ability to parent effectively. BDSM does not. What happens in the bedroom stays in the bedroom. Do you honestly think that when the kid misbehaved, the mom tied him up and flogged him?
And it was private. The child was never exposed to anything adult. Would you tell a couple who bragged about "normal" sexual activity that they should have their children taken away? Or is it just that you fear something you don't understand?
Also, way to assume that the mother "bragged" about her sexual activity in the first place. The only reason the husband knew about the activity in the first place is because (*gasp*) he had participated in the activities with his wife!
Good for you for using logic. Seems that this thread is lacking that.
Gracefire:
If he had *gasp* participated in the activities with his wife, she didn't lose her children over them. How's that logic for ya?
Your sarcasm is not deserving of being called discourse, let alone intelligent discourse.
Where does one draw the line? If the parents enjoyed cutting themselves, would we not be concerned for the child? Why is tying up and wiping not as bad in your eyes? Do wounds not result?
The mindset involved for BDSM activities is one that does impair parental judgment. Any mindset where any type of violence is alright can spill over. You can deny it all you want, you can scream from the hill tops how wrong you think I am or how little you think I understand, but your friend is a deviant and wrong.
Gracefire, you didn't answer my very calm and reasonable question: Why would a nanny have to know about and approve of somethng her employees keep strictly private behind closed doors?
And you are lying about your friend; if she really lost custody for being BDSM with her ex, her ex wouldn't have gotten custody either.
Gracefire:
I don't have a problem with anyone's private sexual activities, but I think your inerpretation is off.
I can understand a couple with an unusual lifestyle wanting the nanny aware of that, but the ad specifies that they are also seeking a "kinky nanny." The implication being the nanny is also going to join in their activities. It's really not acceptable to seek a combined sexual plaything for parents and sitter for kids. Also, even if you practice BDSM, you really *should* keep it to the bedroom and the nanny (as Djembe said) should not NEED to be aware of it or comfortable with it. If you are into a BDSM lifestyle (basically BDSM in all parts of life beyond sex), you should put that on hiatus while you raise dc. I can see a nanny needing to be aware a family is vegan, into attachment parenting, even a lifestyle choice such as no TV - but no nanny needs to be aware of the parents' sexual proclivities or else the parents aren't being discreet enough.
On another topic, someone mentioned homeless people and this reminded me of something. I work with the homeless and we often review their income from recycling or panhandling. Via recycling (scrap metal and cans/bottles) they have told me they can earn $20-50/day. From panhandling I've heard anywhere from $50-100/day, depending on location, tactic, and appearance of the person! I've heard much higher numbers too, but this is the common range. I'd truly rather recycle trash (maybe not panhandle though!) before I'd babysit for $3.00/day! When you are offering income below what someone can earn as a homeless person with no formal skills, then I think that's a good metric you are pricing things too low.
You know, there are some people who think that oral sex is deviant and wrong. But I would hazard a guess that for most people it is a normal sexual practice. Consensual sexual acts between parents that occur where the child is not exposed can hardly be considered bad parenting.
Smoking crack is entirely different as it impairs judgment both while high and while craving the high, leading to neglect. To compare the two (BDSM and crack) is ignorant and prejudicial.
That having been said, there is no reason the nanny should need to be aware of the parents' sexual practices, and involving your child's paid caregiver in your sexual exploits (regardless of what they are) is crossing a boundary, imo.
Gracefire,
you have no logic to speak of. As someone else just mentioned, violence is not an ok thing to teach a child. and BDSM is much more involved than just "spanking." Something I know nothing about? I have read a great deal on the topic, and most people who are into it are sexual degenerates. Many serial killers and rapists are into that shit. You really want to set that example for your daughter? That getting tied up and forced to have sex is hot? A turn-on?
Sorry, gracefire. You are wrong on this one. God help us if you have kids. I'm starting to think you are your "friend" who lost her kids. If that is the case, they are better off without someone who lacks such logic, as well as morals and values.
Yeah, I'd love to see someone email something like this to #2 (free lunch for a 12 year old homeless person) or the 25¢/hr person:
"Hi. I'd love to hang out with your kids. Kids really like me cuz I know exactly what they like and I usually have candy for them. I like the littlest ones best, so if you still want someone to take care of them I'll do it for a free lunch.
I should tell you that I do have one conviction but since I'm in the database now and my parols officer knows where to find me, you can take my word for it that I'll be fine around your kids. When can I start?"
Now pervert, do you think it's also your business to judge people who like to eat a whole mouthful of pop-rocks at once? I mean, it's kind of strange and potentially dangerous, so their kids should defintely be taken away.
FYI, do some more reading, (since you apparently get off on your little voyeurism practice)...BDSM does not generally involve injury (it would get to be a pretty expensive and short-lived practice if it did), and if someone ENJOYS being tied up to have sex, then it's CONSENSUAL, which is the opposite of forced. I know you're too hysterical and anally blocked to understand that, but try for a minute or two before you start in again if you want to make any sense at all.
whatever, cali mom. I am not a voyeur. I have read quite a bit on the topic and it is a lifestyle that in my opinion should not go hand in hand with children in the house. If you want to have a babysitter babysit your kid while you go away to a hotel or something and do it, fine. But it should not be done in the house when the kids are residing in that same home. It's just not responsible. I'm not tight-assed, I just think it shouldn't be done in the home.
The OP of the ad in question is a perfect example of people who are into that: and they are putting an ad on CL for a kinky nanny.
And of course it involves injury: it involves tons of injury including scars, welts, and bruises. Not to mention that people are accidentally strangled during that kind of sex.
Pop rocks? What the hell are you talking about? You're really out there, hippie.
Come on:
You're being a little selective in what you're arguing about, for one thing I said that BDSM is deviant and wrong, another made the crack argument, to use parts of each as if it were the same argument is a little disingenuous. If I had to guess, I would imagine you're little more than a sock puppet. Oral sex is practiced by a large percentage of the population. It involves no violence and no elements of control. It involves no behavior that could spill into other elements of life.
On the other hand BDSM is about control. BDSM involves violence, it isn't BDSM without violence. If you develop a mindset that violence is alright in one setting, your brain won't always recognize that it isn't in another. It will spill over. This is an impairment of judgment. Humans don't handle violence well. You can pretend to have barriers in your head, but they aren't there. Face it, anyone practicing BDSM is deserving of a great deal of scrutiny if they have children.
cali mom:
BDSM does involve violence. Whether that always results in injury or not doesn't matter, it does involve violence. That is my objection to it.
perverts:
"You're really out there, hippie."
Was that really necessary?
Cali Mom-Love the pedophile conversation. Spot on!!
I think S&M is deviate behavior. That's one of it's attractions. You are doing something BAD. But it's bent. Something happened somewhere to make that sort of thing attractive, and I don't think it's a quality I would want in a child care provider.
Perverts -
I find it very interesting that u have read quite a bit on BDSM. If it is so offensive to u, etc., then why read a lot about it? Ex. Obviously, I find pedaphilia wrong, but don't go out of my way to research it. Kinda makes me wonder why you're sooo interested in reading sooo much about it...Just sayin'.
And as someone who actually knows quite a few people who practice BDSM, lemme share some real info with u. Also, I just for disclosure, I don't practice BDSM, but have convos about it b/c any type of culture or sub-culture different from me tends to interest me - perhaps due to my cultural anthropology background. (Note: This info does not pertain to any people who do not practice generally accepted BDSM "rules/guidelines" w/in their community. So it obviously doesn't apply to serial killers, etc.)
BDSM involves "safe," consensual sex play b/w 2 or more adults. Typically there is a safe word, which someone can say when they want to stop a particular act. There is a range from "light" BDSM which can include role playing (like doctor/nurse, etc.), blindfolds, light spanking/whipping (i.e. no marks), etc. to "heavier" BDSM which can include whipping or spanking (w/ marks, welts), intricate bondage, and tons of other stuff. Bear in mind that what constitutes heavy vs. light play varies among people, so there's usually multiple conversations of what each person wants. And again, people are free to use their safe word and it should be respected. Like all forms of sex, trust and knowing that your partner will stop if you're not into something is vital. Sooo, there's the "real scoop"...
Sorry to hijack this thread, but ignorance and prejudice riles me up.
Last thing - your friend's kids may not have been taken away b/c they were aware of their mom's sexual practices. There are still plenty of judges who determine custody based on personal biases - BDSM, homosexuality, etc...
Miss Dee,
My vote is the $.25/hr. Yes, things are cheaper in Fresno, but CA min wage is still $8/hr!
That one is one for the records! We should all email her and tell her she's making history on ISYN!
thinking about $.25/hr...
You know, as I read that ad I wondered if it was fake. I mean, even the cheapest people usually pay at least $2-$3/hr. Plus, she wanted all that full on cleaning on top.
Plenty of people are crazy and have no idea what nannies do, and think they can get a good nanny for less than daycare, but is anyone really that out to lunch?
BDSM is not all about violence.
BD = Bondage & Discipline
DS = Dominance & Submission
SM = SadoMasochism
Generally, only S&M involves the submissive actually receiving and enjoying pain. Sometimes Discipline involves spanking as "punishment," but not always. As the pp said, BDSM involves a safe word and the "sub" is generally quite in control of a mutually pleasurable experience.
I would actually say the pain aspect is the minority. More people enjoy things such as: obeying the other partner (being "told" how to perform oral sex, for example); wearing fetish clothing such as collars, leather, and latex; and being restrained with rope or soft scarves which are often easy to escape.
Fetishes are also a huge part of BDSM. From mild things like latex and shoes, to more unusual things like watersports. Role playing is quite common, and is about excitement and D&S rather than violence.
I find it odd to hear the few "experts" on here expound incorrectly about a practice they clearly know nothing about and totally misunderstand. If you have questions, I'm glad to answer. But the one thing I'm sure of is that true violence is very rare in BDSM. It's almost always consensual edge play in which any "pain" is interpreted as pleasure by the recipient, and the sub is fully in control to stop the events at any time.
Still, BDSM + nanny makes no sense. I think the posters of that ad were simply looking for a creative way to entice a new play partner and used poor judgment in connecting it with childcare.
I would agree with the people that if the couple were looking for their nanny to participate in their bedroom activities, it would be wrong. However, I didn't get that vibe from the ad. Maybe it's just me, but from what I read, I just saw a coupe looking for a nanny with a like-minded interests. And, to me, there is nothing wrong with that. People hire Christian nannies, liberal nannies, Republican nannies...it's only natural to want a person who is an integral part of your family to share the same interests as you.
@Meghan: Again, the difference comes back to motivation. Cutting is destructive. It is indicative of a mental disorder. Now, I am not saying cutters should have their children taken away, but "kinky" is not a diagnosis. Depression, anxiety or mania (which can all lead to self-injurious behavior) are. Also, to say that if you accept violence in one situation, then it becomes acceptable in other places is ludicrous. Do you watch sports? Some sports can get pretty violent. What about shows like "CSI" or "Law and Order" or action movies? Some of those are pretty violent, too. And yet, the adult brain is wonderful at differentiating between different situations and determining the appropriate response. And, as others have pointed out, not all BDSM is about violence. Control is also a large part of BDSM for many people.
@djembe: I believe I answered your question in the first paragraph of this reply, but I will answer it again. As I said, people hire nannies with similar interests/values all the time. The way I read the ad, this was no different. And, frankly, from some of the responses I have seen in this thread, it is no wonder.
@perverts: Oh, where do I even begin? Yeah, reading about something is totally like actually participating in it. Cuz, I don't know about you, but I always believe everything I read. Also, the assertation that only "serial killers" are into BDSM is just, plain ludicrous. I help organize one of the largest kink events of its type in the world and the people that attend (this year, over 600) are certainly not serial killers. They are lawyers, doctors, teachers, librarians, police officers, members of the armed forces, high-level executives and people you pass on the street every day. Some of them, you probably even know and respect! They serve you your food, protect you from bad guys and manage your money. WE ARE EVERYWHERE!
@BTDT: Thank you for your input. I also find it infuriating when people make judgments on topics they clearly know nothing about. Also, I agree that if they were looking for a play partner, they crossed a line in phrasing it as looking for a "nanny." A nanny is an employer and everyone knows that sleeping with your boss never turns out well. :-)
If people have questions, I, too, would be glad to answer them. But, seriously, people. I don't call for the kids of closed-minded bigots to be taken away. Why judge some one just because they happen to like a little pain with their pleasure? Can't we all agree that a child being taken away from a parent is generally a sad event and stop the mudslinging?
Sorry - my comment triple posted for some reason.
Gracefire, well said. Different strokes for difefent folks.
Pervert, I could argue that it's injurious and abusive to kids to impart to them your own irrational paranoias and teach them to live in constant fear of the imaginary Big Sky Fairy and pound into their heads from an early age that if they don't believe those fairy tales as they are paraphrased interpretations of the 10 times translated from extinct and obscure languages, written down many generations later by people who were retold them by illiterates, that they will vanish into a hidden pit of fire and live in excruciating pain for all eternity.
But I wouldn't try to argue that anyone who buys into that delusional nonsense should have their kids taken away from them.
the bdsm couple is definitely not looking for a nanny that just happens to be ok with their lifestyle. i assume my mb and db have average heterosexual sex but i don't know because that is not an appropriate thing to discuss with your employees/employers. the couple is looking for a legal way to pay someone to join the fun thus the nanny position
The ad with the $.25 an hour is fake. I went on that city's Craig's List and the person wrote that ad down because he/she was trying to get a rise out of the childcare providers, and said that all they do is respond to parents' ads and neglect the children they are supposed to care for.
BTDT
Thank you for your comment. I am a Dominant female in a BDSM relationship and all too often this lifestyle is misinterpreted and misunderstood.
Megan-
I prefer to think of it as killing 2 birds with one stone (sorry for the violent metaphor).
One of the tenets of BDSM is mutual consent. That means both/all parties agree, and most of the time they'll have a safeword to be used if one party is no longer enjoying the experience.
There are so many examples I could think of where people practice "violence" in one area of their lives and are otherwise decent people. Soldier, police officer, slaughterhouse worker, boxer, video game player, hunter, to name a few. You can say what you will about any of those practices, or you can argue that it's not the same thing. In truth, sexual practices, being relatively unique in the realm of human interactions (by their very nature), are probably less likely to spill over into other areas.
To bring it back on topic, I would like to reassert that while I have no issue with consenting adults practicing BDSM, bringing your child's paid caregiver into your sexual relationship is not a good thing.
Elle said...
The ad with the $.25 an hour is fake. I went on that city's Craig's List and the person wrote that ad down because he/she was trying to get a rise out of the childcare providers, and said that all they do is respond to parents' ads and neglect the children they are supposed to care for.
I was the one who sent in the ad offering $0.25/hr. I saw a couple responses on the Fresno CL saying they thought it was a fake, but I'm pretty sure none of those were saying that they actually sent in the original. I agree, it could be someone just trying to get a rise out of people, but I've certainly heard of crazier things...many of them on Craigslist
NanGal - Excellent point. They're looking for a prostitute!
Come on - Two birds, one stone? Liar. Megan was right, you were forming a straw man argument.
Observer-
Straw man argument? Hardly. Megan stated that the woman engaged in BDSM was "deviant and wrong." I pointed out that different people can have different beliefs about what is wrong, and her believing that BDSM is wrong does not necessarily make it so (ie people can have different opinions of many sexual practices, including homosexual acts or oral sex). In a separate paragraph I addressed the argument comparing BDSM to a parent smoking crack, the two of which have nothing to do with each other, as crack is a mind-altering drug that measurably impairs a person's judgment.
Despite my previous comment about 2 birds (which was, admittedly, flippant), I actually was not attempting to meld the 2 arguments, hence the separate paragraphs. However, I do believe the first assumption (that BDSM is deviant and wrong) is inherent in the second analogy (that engaging in BDSM is akin to smoking crack), so imo the arguments are not mutually exclusive.
I'm sorry to keep rehashing a subject that has run its course, but I do feel the need to continue to stand up to intolerance when I see it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM
There are many different fetishes and BDSM is one of them. Should someone who practices infinatilism have their children taken away? Should someone who gets off over excrement have their children taken away?
As long as it's kept in the bedroom a person's sex life has no bearing on if they can be a fit parent.
Comparing smoking crack and bdsm is laughable, crack is illegal bdsm is not.
A pervert rarely recognizes their acts as perverted. BDSM is.
Gracefire - Those professions you name where violence is an element do have a well documented history of the spill over Megan was talking about. Police, soldiers, etc. are more prone to commiting acts of domestic abuse. The brain does not have the barriers you imagine, especially with violence.
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