Monday

Another Watergate?

Received Sunday, April 19, 2009
Perspective and Opinion on ISYN I have a very disturbing problem. I assure you that this is not submitted for any reason but to get advice from other parents. I am worried about the legal and moral implications. We have had a nanny for three months. We use a nanny camera. My husband reviews random nanny camera footage, since she is new. I am guessing that many people have found off things on their nanny cameras, anything from cheating spouses to robberies, but I think our situation takes the cake. We have two nanny cameras, one in the playroom and one in the kitchen which is the hub of the house. Our nanny is currently attending a wedding that she told us she needed to attend when she accepted our position back in January. My husband was making sure the nanny cameras are working because we are using a fairly new sitter. Upon reviewing the tapes, he came across something disturbing. I don't know how essential the exact details are, you may edit them as you choose. Here is what we saw.

The nanny comes into the kitchen with a water pick machine. She plugs it into a kitchen outlet and now the water pick machine is setting on the counter. She goes to the coffee machine and removes the caraffe. She pours the coffee in the water pick machine. She disappears from the room. She comes back two minutes or so later. She pulls down her pants, bends over the counter and inserts the water pick into what appears to be her "bottom". She makes some strange faces. She turns the machine off. Now she is standing, somewhat cupping her bottom, dancing back and fourth on her feet like she has to go to the bathroom. I am not sure what she is exactly doing. She disappears from the room, returns five minutes later. She breaks apart the water pick. I can't see how through she washes it because her back blocks out the camera. Then she turns, puts the plastic part of the water pick machine on the counter, the tip on the counter and then dries them off with a paper towel. Then she disappears from the room again. She returns about 15 minutes later and is cutting up fruits and vegetables. Our nanny camera is digital and can be monitored via computer. The images are very clear. What do we do with this? My husband thinks we should make a copy to keep for ourselves and then a copy for an acquaintance of ours who the nanny babysits for on Saturday nights. I think that would possibly cause us legal problems.

My husband and I are shocked, revolted and disgusted, but most of all we are very disturbed. The nanny is a very sweet, shy, Mormon girl, originally from Utah. She doesn't go out drinking, she doesn't seem to have a boyfriend and she has a few like-minded friends that she pals around with on her off time. As disgusted as I am, I don't see a reason to ruin her life or embarrass her, but we are both certain that we wish to terminate her. I think we should give her two weeks severance upon her return and let her go immediately. My husband thinks that we shouldn't give her anything. She has only been with us for three months, but she has in that time gone above and beyond her duties, been incredibly responsible and hardworking and kind to all of us.

The timing on the tape was during the children's mid winter break, and it does not appear that there were any children present in the home while she was "occupying herself". I would appreciate real suggestions and advice. Our nanny will return from the wedding on Tuesday afternoon. We placed an ad in the local paper that ran today advertising the nanny job and I have been flooded with responses. There seem to be a lot of well qualified nannies out there looking for work. This works to our advantage, obviously. I am planning to take tomorrow off and I have several interviews scheduled throughout the day. One question I have is, what do I tell the nannies when they ask about our current nanny? What is a satisfactory response that isn't too revealing? Given the quality of nannies that seem to be out there, I do want to make sure that our job looks appealing to a prospective nanny.

102 comments:

hmmm said...

I just want to know why she didn't do this in the bathroom?

lala said...

It's a coffee enema. Some believe they are beneficial for detoxification and health. It's not a sexual thing. And I'm sure she thought she was alone in the private house where she is a live-in nanny, and therefore wouldn't be seen on secret cameras.

Starbucks today? No thanks! said...

Wow. I may never drink coffee again. Regardless of if it was a coffee enema or not, what is she doing, doing it in the kitchen? Gross. I'm sure she has a bedroom, and use of a bathroom. This is an activity that seems suited to a private location. Kitchen, whether she is a live in or not, is not a private area. I wouldn't share it with anyone. If the other family asks you why you let her go, I would just say you found out some personal things that didn't match well with your family beliefs, and although at this point your children weren't compromised that you felt the live in situation with her wasn't in everyone's best interest. I wouldn't embarrass her to the other family. Aside from potential legal issues, going into specifics with other people that know her is really embarrassing. I would tell her honestly what you found, or allow her to watch herself. I'm sure she'd think twice about waterpicking her butt with coffee in someone's kitchen again!

Good luck.. there are good nannies out there!

Coffee Enemas Are Healthy said...

Here is a site that explains coffee enemas: http://www.ineedcoffee.com/01/enema/

I'm not sure why she was doing it in the kitchen ... but it's not necessarily something to fire someone over, is it? Especially since she appears to be an otherwise fantastic nanny. That is your decision to make.

If you decide to keep her: Ask her to do this in the bathroom in the future?

If you decide to let her go: You are not legally able to tell the other family. I liked Starbuck's suggestion on what to say.

lisa said...

I'm hoping it was her waterpick. Other than that, it seems she brought the stuff to the kitchen because that is where the coffee was. Would you rather she bring your coffee pot in her bathroom?

She's probably really energetic.

mom said...

Don't show the tapes to any of her other employers! How embarrassing...and potentially illegal. If necessary, the statement, "She gave herself a coffee enema in our kitchen" ought to suffice. (To your friend...NOT to people calling for a reference. To them say what was suggested above.)

I'm not sure whether I'd fire her or not for this...although the fact that she did it and washed the aftermath in your kitchen shows a lack of something...
How completely gross and unsanitary!

However OP, IMO you still don't win the prize for the most disgusting nanny cam revelation I've seen here...although you are definitely in the top three. Grand prize still goes to the nanny who masturbated with the dog in the living room. You and the woman who found her nanny using her pedi egg at the kitchen table and then dumping the contents into the parmesan cheese container share second prize. What is wrong with some people?

nono califa said...

I say there is never a reason for your nanny to pull down her pants in your kitchen. I mean, it's your kitchen! The enema site makes it seem healthy and not sexual, but it sounds sexual to me. This is where the family eats!

I would fire her and send her packing with a DVD of her kitchen event.

TX Mommy said...

This is why you tell a nanny if she will be video taped. You can still keep an eye on her and know your children are safe and she knows that there is no privacy for her in your home.

Nanny in San Diego said...

I do not know what a coffee enema is and after reading this, I do not think I want to! I am only half-joking. Regardless, she did it in your kitchen and rinsed something in the sink...eeeek....how gross!! I would bleach out my sink if I were you!! I hope you did!! (Sorry, I am a bit of a clean freak, but even if I wasn't...oh well)...anyways, just tell her you had a nanny cam on her (maybe you should have told her before she started working), and that you think it is best if you let her go. Tell her you appreciated the great care she provided the children and that you wish her well. Whether you give her pay is up to you. Maybe a week's worth since she didn't actually have the children in the kitchen and the children were not actually being harmed in any way, shape or form. Then with your next nanny, inform her that there will be a nanny cam. I don't think it is illegal to use nanny cams, I mean if it were then it would be illegal to sell them and use them too. I am not sure if you should show a copy to the other family. You can just say you caught something on tape that was not very sanitary and leave it at that. If the nanny finds out you showed it to another family, she may use legal action if she is entitled, it depends on your state I suppose.
I would fire her, but try not to burn any bridges w/her since it could have been much worse.

Original Lisa said...

Don't embarass her by telling anybody else or by showing anybody else. Why would you need to do that? All you have to tell other people is that you had personal differences that had nothing to do with her work performance.

Village said...

This is bent. I would replace her immediately. As for the other family for whom she sits, a great deal can be said with a lifted eyebrow.

Aren't Waterpicks supposed to go in your mouth? A psychologist could have a field day with this.

I'd tell the applicants the nanny needed to move, and you assisted her with that.

mama b said...

Sounds like a coffee enema to me and I actually learned about these from my mormon friend (not my Scientologist friend) years ago. Never heard of using a water pick - that is pretty creative. Have to agree in the kitchen is pretty bizarre - WHY?
EW! Yuck! Blah! I am assuming it is your water pick. I don't think there is enough bleach in the world to make that transition sanitary...

Phoenix said...

I have an idea... if she is mormon they are not allowed to drink coffee. medicine inserted rectally is absorbed best than any other mean even oral. So she may have used this as a way to not necessarily ingest the caffine (strange thought I know)
Coffee is also a stimulant, she could have used it as a type of enema but warm water works just as good. Other than that i can't think of any other reason to do this.... I wonder if coffee is good for hemroids ? There has to be a medical reason behind this.. I can't imagine that it felt good at all.

mom said...

Ummm. May I ask what the purpose of a nanny cam if it is not to detect the care your nanny gives your children WHEN SHE THINKS NOBODY IS WATCHING? That is a refelction of her true character and the best indicator of what kind of nanny she is. If oyu tell her there's a camera and she is abusive, she'll just find a way to do it out of view of the camera. The point is to KNOW how she is with the kids. Duh. If you tell her you have one, don't even bother having one IMO.

Jacqui said...

Employees in ANY profession have a right to know if they are being videotaped, period. End of story.

The only reason I think this nanny should be fired is because it would obviously be incredibly awkward for both you and your husband to be around her. And I do not blame you. That's quite a thing to catch someone doing.
Her lack of judgement in choosing a location though, is just that. A lack of judgement. As you have mentioned, she's a terrific nanny. It's a shame she was foolish enough to do this in such a public part of the house. Very bizarre but it doesn't warrant saying anything negative about her to potential future employers. I would do as another poster suggested and simply bring up the fact that after reviewing nanny cam footage, it would be best if she found another place of employment. You don't even have to mention what you saw (unless she inquires further). I'm sure she could figure it out and it would save both of you the embarrassment.
That's just an all around WEIRD situation OP. I feel bad for both you AND your nanny.

Nanny in San Diego said...

Mom, I agreed w/you on a prior post, but have to disagree on this one. I believe that a person should be told if they are being filmed. It's a matter of respect to someone who is providing your children w/what you cannot since you cannot be there. If I were the parent, I would tell the nanny prior to hire, then only hire those who agree. As a nanny, I would want to know. I would NEVER harm a child at all, however I would want to be told just so I know I am being watched...what normal person wouldn't?
To put a different perspective on your opinion of not telling someone that she is being filmed...wouldn't that mean that you do not trust her to begin w/if you are going to film her AND not tell her? If you really trusted her w/your children and your home, you would not be installing a hidden camera w/out her knowledge. That act alone can erode the trust your nanny would have for you.
Just my opinion....

organic said...

Coffee enemas have been used by people with certain medical conditions, specifcally ulcerative colitis. I can't remember why and I have personally never gone that route to treat mine. However, so long as the kids weren't involved or present I don't think this is really that big of a deal.

PS: I also know people that treat yeast infections my shooting some organic plain yogurt up there w/ a turkey baster. I just hope they use their own and not their employers. Mull that one over at thanksgiving.

lovesthegirls said...

I think people should be told ofbeing videotaped. As for the "being on the best beahvior" assertion Mom posited, I have to say that while I get where you are coming from, after a while people's true natures show through eventually regardless. In the heat of the momment or just over time and habit the real peron will show.

just a thought said...

Now knowing that it's a coffee enema - for whatever reason she's doing it - why would you fire her? If she was in the restroom, it wouldn't matter and she wouldn't be fired. Yes, she should have chosen another place to do it. If this was your water pick, she shouldn't have used it, but if she takes care of your children and she does a wonderful job at it, this shouldn't matter. I'm not saying she made the wisest of decisions, but had she known of the camera, she could have done this in the restroom. You don't have to tell the nanny where the camera/s are, just that you have them in the house. I don't feel it's right that you didn't tell her. I understand that it would make you uncomfortable, but you should probably think about what is going on (now that you know the facts) before jumping into firing her.

Clover said...

Personally, I don't care WHAT she was doing.

How dense does someone have to be to do that in the kitchen? Even if I were in my own home, I wouldn't be doing that in the kitchen! It's something for the bathroom.

And how gross to have that stuff put on your counter afterward. Did the counter get washed? Did the sink get washed? Did her HANDS get washed?

This is not a small lack of judgment. It's pretty big. And I wouldn't want someone who could make such a large mistake in charge of my children.


(Also, whenever I enter a home as a nanny or a babysitter, I assume I'm being watched by a nanny cam. To me, it just seems like common sense these days to realize you have no privacy when you are out of your own home, and even then you probably don't.)

mom said...

Clover,
Exactly! The general use of nannycams is no secret. I would automatically assume I was being watched if I was a nanny. And would not expect automatic trust from somebody who I didn't know and had just hired me. I really don't get all these people saying "you ought to trust your nanny more than to spy on her." How exactly are we to trust strangers? Having hired them does not automatically make them close family friends that you have known for decades and have the ability to legitimately trust implicitly. And whn it comes to kids, there is NO room for errors.

Additionally, when in other people's homes I try not to do things I wouldn't do if they were standing right with me. This would include using their kitchen as a rectal cleansing arena...but hey, maybe that's just me.

To each his own said...

So many issues here...
A) Was it her water pik? If not, that presents the whole other issue of her using yours (for an unintended purpose) without permission. That would be unacceptable.
B) If she is a live-in nanny, I strongly object to you having a nanny cam in the kitchen (which should be space shared with her) and not telling her- then she is being watched unknowingly, even in her off-time.
C) It's kind of disgusting that she did this in the kitchen, and not the bathroom, but as someone else said, that's where the coffee was. Nobody else was home, and she had no way of knowing she was being watched.
D) Do NOT show the tape to anyone else or even mention the incident. Just say she provided great care to your children but she wasn't the right person to live with your family due to different living habits (true enough, right?)

Not specifically to OP, but I think nanny cams give a false sense of security. You should have basic trust of a nanny based on her education, experience, references, demeanor, and your basic judge of character. However, all it takes is one incident for your child to be killed or permanently injured (e.g. one time shaking a baby). If your child is being abused, you will start to see changes in their mood & behavior, as well as physical signs. A nanny cam can only show you so much- are you going to watch 45-60 hours a week of footage?

Emily said...

Figures she's Mormon! Haha.

ThatGreatNanny said...

Brief nanny-cam story to share from a nanny perspective. A woman I worked for a few years ago tried to fire me because she thought I was dropping her toddler. She sat me down and showed me the footage (which did not have sound). The video she showed me coming into the room with the child in my arms and me "dropping" him on the sofa. She had this taped on several occasions. What she didn't see was that this was a part of a game the toddler and I often played when coming in from outside. I would "drop" him on the sofa and fall on the floor next to him. He would giggle and this would usually lead to tickling and then, being exhausted, nap time.

In reality, my "dropping" of her child was from less than a foot above the sofa, and he had never once been injured. She also didn't seem to notice that after "dropping" him, he giggled and played with me. All she saw was what she perceived as violence. I fought her on it and she understood. I stopped our "dropping" game, but I quit shortly after because I just couldn't deal with the mother.

Anyway, I at least had a chance to explain myself and she showed me the footage. OP, you might want to consider that. Granted, this is a very different situation and one that I think is downright weird, but I always think an explanation is at least courteous.
(Sorry if my story wasn't all that brief!)

OP said...

I am the OP of this post. If the nanny had used my waterpick, I think I would have called the police. That would be beyond the pale!

Neither my husband nor I have a waterpick device.

I agree with Mom on the issue of nanny cameras. I do not think that a nanny should be told that a nanny camera is in use. And based on what I witnessed on videotape and because I think it shows a disgusting lack of judgment, I would encourage all employers who use nanny cameras to review the footage as often as possible!

A great many people have nanny cameras for a feeling of safety but who has the time to review the tapes or footage? The average mother and father do not have that spare time to sit around watching 8-10 hours of raw footage per day.

If anyone has a better idea, please let me know. This is why you must be concerned when someone submits a nanny sighting on the blog and you think, "well that isn't a big deal". If they are doing x in public, I would be concerned about what they do in private. Also, many of the things on here just demonstrate a lack of judgment.

sara marsh said...

I've done this with alcohol. You have to be really careful because you can get drunk too fast and even die. I think the nanny might have done this for a caffeine high. Either that or she might be bulimic.

Mormon Nanny from Utah said...

I'm a Mormon/LDS nanny from Utah, and I've never heard of this practice. I never lived a shelter life, in fact, you'd never know I was LDS if I didn't admit to, however I still stand up for people of the same religion.

Please don't judge her because she's LDS/Mormon. Judge her because what she did was sick and unsanitary!

darcy said...

I have a friend who is getting married next month and she has had her teeth whitened. As a result, she will not drink tea or coffee and she was formerly a coffee junkie. I can totally see her doing something like this because she is so vain and wouldn't want to stain her white teeth.

Nanny in San Diego said...

I am still in the position that you MUST trust the person 100% who is taking care of your child...NO EXCEPTIONS!! I am a mother and I could never walk out the door and leave my child alone w/someone if I didn't trust that person 100%. For some to say that you cannot trust a stranger, that is true, however I cannot agree w/Mom's comment...it sounds very contradictory to me when she says that she cannot trust someone explicitly, then she remarks that there is no room for errors! Well, if you do not trust the person explicitly and you truly believe there is no room for errors w/children (I could not agree more on that Mom!) then you have no business leaving your child w/that person!! As for nanny cams, they cannot be too helpful if you allow your nanny to take the child on day outings and such. Even though the nanny is in public view, things can happen....have you read some of the nanny sightings on this website?!
Anyway, again...just my opinion...I truly believe that when it comes to our kids, if we cannot find anyone out there we can trust 120%, then we should just stay home w/them and live more frugally.

world's best nanny said...

Where are these wackos coming from? Please tell me it was her waterpick. If not, tell her it is her severence and send her and it packing.

You think coffee enemas are healthy? Fine, do them in your room, on your time off, with your waterpick. Hell, even make sure she uses her coffee.

nannyneedsanap said...

Oh who cares? She shot some coffee up her rear. Not the end of the world. As long as it was her own waterpik and she cleaned up after herself, I don't think it's anything to get your knickers in a knot over. I mean really, her rear end, is probably cleaner than your kid's hands, or any kid's hands for that matter.

still not right said...

If she is a live-in nanny, she should be able to live in her home without fear of being constantly observed. It's one thing to have the cams in your child's room or the playroom, but in the kitchen? Why not put one in her bedroom, too, to see what she's doing in there?

oh well said...

I understand why you feel uncomfortable and consider firing her. However, if you look at the hard facts, there is not much you can pin down on her. Lack of hygiene, maybe, but you don't really know (and probably don't want to know) what was going on.
I bet everyone of us has been at some point in their life in an embarrassing situation, which we would not want to see on videotape. Is there any chance you and your husband could just pretend it never happened, if she is really that great with your children?

princessduck said...

This is for 'mom'- Oh my... what are you talking about? Where did you read those things? It is completly disgusting! I can't believe some people are just...idiots...

princessduck said...

For Nanny in San Diego- I agree with you, altough I wouldn't harm the children and the only way I punish the kids I nanny for is when I take them to their room (they are 3 yrs old triplets)and they stay there for 5 mins (I agreed this with the parents) , plus I go outside with them in the park and people can see what I am doing with them, of course is not that good when the nanny is not outside in a park or library and other people can't see her. The point is that I would want to know, I am being filmed! Otherwise if i find out, I can sue those people..right? Is my right to sue them. The thing is that I have worked for 3 families until now and I always had the impression I was watched...but I never found anything, or even to search. But is my right regarding my person to be told I will be on cam.

mom said...

Nanny in San Diego,
I couldn't agree more with the following that you wrote!

"Anyway, again...just my opinion...I truly believe that when it comes to our kids, if we cannot find anyone out there we can trust 120%, then we should just stay home w/them and live more frugally."

And yet I've seen just one too many nanny cam videos on the news of some horrible nanny shaking a baby, tossing a baby repeatedly and forcefully into a crib, and even repeatedly striking a baby in the head with a closed fist, etc., etc., etc. And the parents claim, time and time again, to have had no idea that nanny had such a ugly streak to her. And these are so often defenseless babies that have no opportunity to speak for themselves. Can you really say that your first thought (or, really, any thought that crosses your mind during ANY point, for that matter) in those instances is anything to the effect of, "How dare they tape that nanny without her knowledge?!"

Trust somebody implicitly? That's IMPOSSIBLE until you build up some time and exerience with a person, no matter what their resume says. I started out slowly with any new babysitter...leaving for short periods at first and making sure the kids had nice things to say about her afterwards.

Babies...for the most part nobody but family babysat my babies...and only certain family members at that. I didn't want to risk leaving a child who couldn't tell me about his or her experiences with somebody I didn't have a LOT of experience with.(I had one trusted sitter I had used for a few years by the time my daughter was born and I let her watch my infant daughter at times...although I breastfed, so my babies went pretty much everywhere with me for the first year anyway.) If I couldn't get who I wanted to babysit, I didn't go out...period. HOWEVER, I realize that I was lucky in that I didn't have to work and that not everybody is afforded that luxury. If I had found myself in a position where I had to leave my small child with a new person, no matter what their resume was, you can bet there would have been secret cameras.

And no, nanny can't sue over cameras...unless they're in some unusual place where a person reasonably has every expectation of privacy...like a bathroom or her personal bedroom, etc.

Princessduck, Those gross stories came from right here on ISYN. Now, if your nanny was putting her dead skin from off the bottom of her feet in your parmesan cheese jar, wouldn't you want to have that camera to catch it so you could eat as little of her foot scrapings as possible on your spaghetti? And if your dog was your nanny's masturbation implement, wouldn't you want to know? (Although I believe the dog involved int that story was probably enjoying the whole thing, as he was getting a nice peanut butter snack in the process. Granted, he had to lick it off the nanny's feet to get at it...but I don't think dogs care all that much where it's been as long as its yummy.)

mom said...

PS One more point to make...BTK and the woman who just killed the little girl and stuffed her into a suitcase were Sunday School Teachers! Everybody had "good reason" to trust them both. Too bad all those dead people were so trusting.
All it takes is ONCE.
My cousin left her newborn with her husband one afternoon. He became frustrated at her crying and shook her. First time...but she barely survived, after having to be rushed from the local hospital where they took her to the Mayo Clinic for emergency treatment. She was hospitalized for quite some time. Once is all it takes. If you start waiting to see repeated signs that your child is being abused, you may not get the chance to watch him grow up.

Nanny in San Diego said...

Mom, yes I have seen those videos on the news of nannies being filmed while caring for children. Some of them are disturbing to watch, such as when a nanny throws the child on the couch in a forceful manner, etc. What surprises me about these videos the most is that usually the police will say that there is not sufficient evidence the child is actually being "abused" to warrant prosecution. I have seen this in many cases.
I still believe that a person should be told they are being filmed. I can't help it, I stand by my word. If you film someone and do not tell them, sure it may be legal...but is it ethical? What is legal may not always be ethical. If I was being filmed w/out my consent, and I found out, that would be a major deal breaker for me. I would have appreciated the respect of being informed. Isn't that the basis of a good relationship..mutual respect? Plus, even w/a nanny cam, you can never know 100% what is happening to the child. Unless you had one installed in your child which would be impossible, who would know what went on in the car, at the park, in his or her bed/crib, etc.?
I think unless you trust someone 100%, then do not ever walk out that door and leave them alone w/the most precious thing in your life. You're right, it only takes one time.

mom said...

NannyinSanDiego,

OMG! They say there isn't enough evidence to prosecute those nannies in the videos? That stinks!! What more could they want as evidence?

I think this issue of the cameras may just be one that is generally, but not always, divided between nannies and moms. I absolutely understand where you're coming from in wanting to know if you're being filmed. I prefer not to be secretly filmed myself. I am just SO MUCH MORE on the side of seeing that any possible child that can be saved form abuse is saved than I am about personal privacy violations that I'm willing to look the other way on this one. As long as it's legal, I'm all for secret nanny cams. And enough nannies know that it is possible they are being filmed by now that NOT doing nasty things in the kitchen, sexual things anywhere outside their bedrooms, or anything they don't want witnessed anywhere but in a private place should be a no brainer. Just pretend the parents are home while you're working and it should be no problem. People who work in offices manage to survive all day long without running around in their underwear, picking their nose and eating it in the reception area, singing and dancing with wild abandon, or shooting coffe up their bums in the break room. Compromise is necessary, but that's the price of living is SOMEBODY ELSE'S house.

hollygolightly said...

Well of course YOU don't think nannies should be informed that they're being taped, YOU partake in that practice. I'm pretty sure most people have done something pretty embarrassing in the privacy of their house. The situation's is a bad one, don't make her life miserable when you fire her. If she was good with your kids then thats what counts regarding her as a nanny. I think you might mention it to her so she rethinks how/when/where she does this enema thing.
BTW OP, you kind of suck as a person, please consider daycare as an alternative to the injurious spying on of nannies.

mom said...

Oh good grief.

chick said...

A point to make here. First, as a nanny I have a firm position on nanny cams. If I am interviewing for a job, and the parents tell me they will be occasionally taping, then I can say yes or no to the job based on that knowledge.

I can understand wanting to occasionally check in on your nanny, although I think a better method is the "drop-in", the neighbor/relative "drop-in", and the accidental meeting at the playground.

If they tape without any upfront discussion and I find out, I will quit, because the surreptitious taping proves they don't trust me at all.

And OP, Fire her if you want, but do not discuss why. The generic "We felt someone else would be a better fit." is your new mantra.

I'd rather not say said...

Dear Nannies,
It isn't up to you to have a "firm position" on nanny cameras. You don't get to make that call, not at all. I find it laughable that you would think that you did.

Secondly, the whole point of a nanny camera is to see how the nanny truly behaves. Don't forget, nannies generally work unsupervised and often their charges are too little to speak up for themselves. What point would there be to installing a nanny camera in the playroom and telling the nanny? So she can go down the hallway and shake the baby? As an employer of nannies, I have dealt with my share of actresses. Yes, they all say the right thing during their interview. None of them smoke, they all use time outs as punishments, no one yells at children or spanks and everyone is patient and, of course, anti-TV.

My nanny camera footage has revealed to me plenty. And for a nanny camera to give you a true grasp of what goes on in your home, you need to have at least three. The kitchen is a must since it is often the center of the home, a playroom or family room is also essential. Even the child's room if the child is an infant.

I sincerely doubt that the OP of this post thinks she has done anything illegal in taping a nanny in her home. I think her question had to do more with distributing the footage of the incident. That, I would probably advise against, unless I had a $$ buyer. I kid.

In all seriousness, I rarely watch the nanny camera footage these days because my nanny has been with us two months and she is wonderful. In person and on camera.

NENanny said...

Dear I'd rather not say,

It is up to me to have a firm stance on any matter of my choosing, thank you very much. It is not, however, up to YOU to tell me whether or not I am entitled to my own opinion on a subject. Your opening remarks discredited your entire post, IMO.

As a part of the group effected by the nanny cam (parents, kids and nannies) I reserve the right to have my own thoughts, even though I may not have a say in the grand scheme.

Probably an employer of a meek, shy nanny who allows you to play queen, yes?

A Nanny.

PS If the family I nanny for has a nanny cam, I would not be surprised, but thankfully I do my job right and haven't heard any complaints.

still not saying said...

It really is not up to you to have afirm and valid stance. I mean, you can have an opinion, but if you were interviewing for a position with me and I rather liked your qualifications, and you dared to ask about a nanny camera, I would absolutely lie to your face.

Stance denied.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
NENanny said...

Not Saying,

I'm not going to sit here and argue semantics. Good luck with your dishonesty, and you sound like a control freak.

I understand why one would choose to install a nanny cam, but not why someone would want to base their employment of a caregiver on an already broken expectation of trust. Your willingness to lie speaks volumes. Why not just choose to hire someone else?

Nothing I can say will sway your opinion, so just carry on with your telling others when they are allowed to think for themselves.

S said...

I think a waterpick on high could damage rectal tissue. I don't know. I'm now curious though. What an interesting way to deliver an enema. As we know, colon cleansing is all the rage, high colonics and what have you. I am definitely curious. I am heading to Rite Aid now and will price Water Piks!

Nanny from Fargo said...

lisa said...

"She's probably really energetic."

LOL :)



My take is that she was doing a coffee enema to flatten her tummy before the wedding. Its really not uncommon.

It was HER downtime, HER pick, HER "home" as a live-in, and ultimately- HER prerogative.


Unless I am missing something, I don't understand your mortification. She left the room several times, presumably to wash up. She should have probably done this in your bathroom, but I would assume that she wanted to be near the coffee and was just not thinking it through.

Again, coffee enemas are really common- people use them for quick weight loss, energy, and detoxification. She sounds like she has made your family very happy otherwise.

I think that you should tell her (And NO ONE else! No, NOT your neighbors or new hires) what you saw on the camera. Don't be accusatory, don't be judgmental- just be frank and honest. Ask her to explain what happened. You might be surprised.

I especially find it sad that you are already searching for new people before even hearing your current nanny out.

shannon said...

I have one thought on this. What if your boss at your job had video cameras in a place you wouldn't expect one to be and fired you based on something strange you did on there? This is if they didn't tell you. The company has security cameras in certain areas but you can be sure we know they are there but if they had one in a strange place and used one to fire me, I would be talking to a lawyer.

I'm not necessarily saying what she did was right, but you really need to let the person know about the cameras.

Swiss Nanny said...

I think you people have the right to know whether they are being filmed or not. However, having said that, I would never say in which rooms the cameras were in. I would only make it known that they are not in any private spaces that the nanny uses. And no, the kitchen does not count as a private space. I think in this case the OP will not be able to work with the nanny knowing what she knows. I do think, however, that the nanny does deserve severence because this was her off time that you are firing her for. You said she was a wonderful nanny to your children. Yes, she may do some strange things are her time off, but it is hers to do with what she likes. So to give her nothing purely because of that is wrong.

Jacqui said...

I'd rather not say, it is the nanny's decision whether or not she would work for someone using a nanny cam. Nannies aren't servants begging for work. YOU need US more than WE need YOU. We have many options and if we don't feel comfortable being filmed then that is our perogative. While I can't understand why a good, guilt-free nanny WOULD mind, there are many people out there who feel strongly about surveillance videos and whatnot.

And as far as lying to her face about having a nanny cam...WOW. I feel sorry for the woman who works for you. I'm not sure, but I have a feeling if someone asked upfront if they were going to be videotaped, were lied to about it and later found out they WERE in fact on camera, legal action could be pursued. I'm not a lawyer but it seems to make sense. That's not something you lie about. If you're going to go into a working relationship with a woman who will be taking care of your children, lying and being distrustful probably isn't the best approach. You expect your nanny to be completely truthful with you. Why shouldn't she expect the same from her employers? Unless you somehow deem her inferior to you...if that's so, you should probably stay home and watch your own kids. That's not a job for the HELP :-)

mom said...

Talk to your lawyers all you want...it'll just waste your money. Unless a camera is in a bathroom, or some other place that a person has a reasonable expectation of privacy, you can film employees all you want to...in an office or in your home.

Wicker Park Nanny said...

Nanny Cam Issue:

legal - yes

telling nanny - not necessary (although polite)

but just like i told the lady this morning who was asking me my opinion on nanny/employer relationships: if you don't trust your nanny, DON'T HIRE HER/HIM! i worked for a family who wouldn't allow me to take the baby outside of a 1 block radius of their apartment. i did them a favor and quit because they should have admitted they didn't trust me and found someone who better fit them.

i liked what Shannon said: how would you feel if there was a camera in your office watching you do everything from pulling your wedgies to picking your nose?

it's just polite to let the nanny know you will be periodically "watching" them. if you leave a bit of mystery as to when you will catch them in their true element - they can't fake it forever. we're nannies, not actresses.

sd said...

It would really really suck to live anywhere and be taped with or without knowledge. You are probably doing your nanny a favor by firing her, who wants to be watched in the home they live in? Lame!

Laura said...

First off being Mormon has NOTHING to do with anything. I'm Mormon and don't even see the need to say what religion she is. Who cares what she practices...does it change the situation in anyway? It did not matter that she was Mormon did not drink or hang out with bad friends when you decided to tape her.

She had every right to know she was getting taped when she was hired. I would feel betrayed if i found out I was being taped without being told first.

I think that it sounds like she was doing an enema. Yes we are not supposed to drink coffee but putting it in our butts for a caffeine rush would not be excepted either... Being a coffee drinker id rather "break the rule" or rather not follow the guideline then go through the trouble of putting it in my butt.

I think you should let her go for her sake. Yes she should wise up about the location of where she is doing this but she should not have to worry about someone like you.

And honestly...if you would have called the cops because she used your water pick what would that have done really? I don't see them arresting her for it...

YOU make taking a nanny job at your house suck...not the fact your nanny doesn't understand appropriate places to do an enema.

JerseyXJacqui said...

Wow, I don't think I've seen you even HINT at hostility, mom.
Like I said, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know how it works. It just seems to me like an issue could be brought up if a nanny asked an employer directly, prior to being hired, if she would be videotaped and was then blatantly LIED to, it could possibly be a legal issue. And even if it wasn't, it's still not a good way to start your working relationship with the person who will be not only caring for your children but living in your home.

Of course the idea of videotaping ANYONE would be to catch them doing something wrong. Of course it makes sense that you wouldn't want to tell the person being videotaped that they are on camera throughout the day...but in reality, they have a right to know, especially if they're being videotaped in the home they're living in.
The best way to go about finding a nanny you trust is to check references..A LOT of references. At least 5 relating to childcare. If they don't have 5 childcare references then maybe you should look for someone that does. Also, install the camera/s but let the nanny KNOW. Of course you don't have to tell her WHERE they are, but she has a right to know that they are in fact there. Schedule the unplanned drop-ins, either by you, family or neighbors. Make her aware, in a non-threatening way, that you are paying close to attention to the care your children are receiving. If you still feel uncomfortable then maybe a nanny isn't for you. The nature of a nanny IS usually unsupervised care of your kids. If you can't deal with that then maybe a daycare with constant video suveillance (you can watch from your computer) is your best bet. You might want to make other arrangements. I'm not judging anyone who feels that way, but you can't treat your nanny like she's always about to do something wrong. That's not fair to you, her or the kids.

Jacqui said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Jerseyxjacqui said...

That was weird. Jerseyxjacqui AND jacqui. Sorry for the repeat.

Marge said...

Jersey,
The nanny cannot control the decision she makes, because I have no intention of giving her the information she needs to make her decision, henceforth and ergo, the nanny does not get to choose whether or not she works in a home with nanny cameras. Unless of course, she interviews with the seven suckers who make certain to tell the nanny exactly where the nanny cameras are located!

JerseyXJacqui said...

Karma's a bitch, Marge.

Gotta love unethical, dishonest employers.

seemsodd said...

I want to know why the cameras are running and you're watching the footage when there are no children present in the home? Isn't the point of a nanny cam to protect the children?

That seems like an invasion of privacy, even if it is legal.

Legal Eagle said...

Employers may film employees at the place or business all they want without informing them. However if the place of business is also the nannies primary residence that's a grey area.

Bottom line (no pun intended) it's a judgement call you need to make as far as retaining her services.

Sharing the video with anyone else could open you up to a civil lawsuit as well as possible criminal action against you. Please don't do it.

HERE HERE FOR YOU said...

Well that seems like a nice, healthy and trusting way to start a relationship with your nanny, lie to her face!

How brilliant

SAHM said...

I am shocked there are people on here posting it's no big deal what this girl did! She gave her self an ENEMA in the KITCHEN!!! How disgusting-no one in their right mind could think that was ok to do-especially not in your EMPLOYERS house!!!

If you think this is OK to do-what could possible be off limits for you? I understand she is a great nanny with the kids, but there are other great nannies that won't shoot coffee up their butt in your kitchen. You have to wonder about her lack of judgement and if she does something as stupid as this-what else may she do with the kids?

I also think the OP should tell the other family she is babysitting for (I don't think she should show her the video though). If this was someone I was trusting to care for my children I would want to know about it. If the OP just says it was a difference of opinion or something-the other family may keep her on thinking it was a personal matter that doesn't concern them and keep her on.

really?! said...

"So she can go down the hallway and shake the baby?"

This is funny. People don't usually PLAN to shake a baby. It happens spur-of-the-moment when they are overwhelmed and impatient- camera or no.

"If the OP just says it was a difference of opinion or something-the other family may keep her on thinking it was a personal matter that doesn't concern them and keep her on"

This is funny too. Because, you know, it IS a personal matter that doesn't concern them- it didn't happen in THEIR house (which is also not the nanny's HOME.

mom said...

jersey,
I have no idea about whether it is legal to actually lie to the nanny about the existence of surveillance devices and then tape her anyway. I'm just saying it is perfectly legal to tape in the common areas of a home or business without the consent of the employees. It's done all the time. When I worked at McDonalds in high school they even taped us there. (Wouldn't want any hot apple pies to go missing, I guess.) It's just a fact of life these days.
And my personal opinion is that telling a nanny she is being taped COMPLETELY negates the purpose of a nanny cam.
If I was hiring a nanny and she asked if I used a nanny cam, I would never lie to her. I would simply not hire her and go on to the next candidate. (Hypothetically anyway, since I do not actually have a nanny or a nanny cam.)

Portlander said...

I think what bothers me about nanny cams is that with them there seems to be an assumption that nannies are inherently bad. The videos that are shown on the news of nannies abusing children are exceptional; most nannies do not harm or neglect their charges. Most abuse, as we all know, happens at the hand of a relative.

I understand the natural anxieties of placing your child in the care of another, but I think the kernel of that relationship has to be trust. The vast majority of the world's childcare givers are not evil. If you are unable to leave your child with someone without having a nagging fear that that person may "snap" and harm your child then you need to rethink your childcare situation. I am much more worried about tired, new parents snapping and shaking their babies than I am professional nannies.

CarefreeInSD said...

i think it's hilarious that people pretend that they don't do these kind of things - maybe not this EXACT thing, but very intimate things they wouldn't want someone to see - in privacy when no one is supposed to be watching.

of course, you don't usually do it in the kitchen.

Legal Eagle said...

Mom filming employees on the job in McDonld's and filming your live-in nanny in a common use area of the residence without her consent is not the same! There is a huge legal question raised by that and they should definitely consult an attorney especially if they plan to discharge her for this.

Under no circumstances should they share the video with anyone. And depending on state law where they live, they should be careful what they tell the other family, should they choose let her go.

Good luck OP!

CTMom said...

I would think most nannies or other household employees should assume, at least in the beginning, they are being or could be at some point taped, obviously not in a bathroom, or their bedroom, but main areas like the kitchen or playroom, or kids/parents room. Of course people are not going to tell the nanny- what would be the point? If you do not like it, find another place to work or line of work, as is your right. Other places of employment do it as well. You would not do a coffee enema in your office kitchen and the nanny should not do it in her employers kitchen either (even if she lives there), it is filthy and disgusting. Again, if she did it in her own bathroom, fine, whatever, but the place where everyone eats?? It shows a lack of judgement. That said, I would not show anyone else the video though. It would be humiliating. (as far as illegal- have to ask a lawyer)

Finally, in regard to why she was taped if kids were not there, I know some are set up to tape when there is movement, so it is easy to forget to turn them off, or if you set it up in the morning and are gone for the day, it keeps running all day until it is turned off.

SLAMStheCAMS said...

I've been providing childcare services for nearly 20 years.
When I start in a new home, the first thing I look for is hidden nanny cams. As soon as I find them, I call the parents and tell them they can come home now I am done watching their kids. Let them play I Spy with someone else.

judy in disguise said...

SlamtheCams,
DOUBTful! Yea right. Hysterical. Haha. Funny.

FYI most cameras are motion activated. So if the repairman is working on the stove, you get him to. I don't think the family really had any interest in what the nanny was doing sans the kids, until she set about the anal games.

Enema kit said...

Oh my. I just did some research on this and it is very popular. You can even buy coffee specifically designed for an enema. They say you should NOT use just any old coffee. You can buy a total coffee enema kit for $18.

I suggest you do it in the privacy of your bathroom.

want more? said...

These steps are funny!

Choose your equipment. Next you need a device to deliver the coffee to your bum. (If you got this far without knowing what was going to happen in the end, I’m sorry for the shock.) The most highly recommended device is the common reusable enema or douche bag. It looks a lot like a hot water bottle with about a two-quart capacity. One end has a wide-mouthed opening and a stopper. The stopper has a hole in it to insert the provided tube. The other end has a strongly fortified hole to aid in hanging it to a shower rod, canopy bed frame, or a hook on the wall. The tube has a shutoff clamp to start and stop the flow of liquid. The business end is a thin plastic tubular tip.
A word about the tip. This is probably your most important purchase decision. Make sure it is one you can be comfortable with. And, if you are using a recipe with ground coffee in it, the tip may have to be larger to guard against clogging.

Other alternatives to the enema bag are enema buckets and fountain, bulb and pump style syringes. The enema bag can be found at your neighborhood drug store. The more exotic devices are available from a number of online sources. You shouldn’t spend too much money on these items at the outset. If you aren’t pleased with the outcome, these products aren’t returnable.


Gather up a few other necessary and optional supplies. A KY Jelly type lubricant will ease inserting the enema tip into your bum and guard against tearing of the rectal wall. Towels are handy. A thermometer, useful. Rubber gloves, sponges, and bleach for policing the area afterward are mandatory.
Find your spot. If this is your first time, finding just the right place for this experience is more important than you might guess. On the floor? On your bed? In the bathtub? On the toilet? All have their advocates and detractors.
The toilet seems like a pretty likely choice for a first timer, but the sitting/crouching position used there can open the bowels up in such a way that all the goods might not travel as far as you desire, or stay in as long as you want. The bathtub sounds uncomfortable, the floor undignified, and your bed…well you might want to try it out on the john before doing it on the comfort of your bed. Perhaps you should add plastic sheeting to your list. Regardless, you need a place to hang the enema bag a couple feet above where your bottom will be, and you need quick access to the john for when you want to complete the enema process.

Get a buddy. Would you like some help with this? There is no need for a partner to help. However, you may like someone to assist you. They, in turn, may be willing to help you. I’m going to let this be your call.

Amused Nanny in Swelterting Hot SD said...

Wow...I am so amused at all the comments...this is my new favorite website...when I want a laugh or some entertainment, I go to isawyournanny.com and look what I get. I love the debate and the wild tales. I do not know what I would do w/out this forum. By the way, I have never seen 76 comments before for one post!! Awesome work y'all.

chick said...

Ayyiyi!

Employer: "Nanny, we really like you and would be interested in hiring you. We do feel it neccessary to let you know that we may choose to use a nanny cam when you are working. If that is acceptable to you, we can talk contract."

Note that at no point did employer say WHERE, WHEN, or HOW she would nanny cam. That makes it a little hard for nanny to pick and choose a time and a room or rooms to use to horribly abuse her charges.

And to those who feel a mere nanny has no right to have an opinion on nanny cams, I offer up that you don't have to like my opinion, but you do have to accept that I have a right to possess one. If a nanny who has a thought or ten of her own scares you so much, don't hire a nanny with a brain. Go for a bench slug instead, and much joy to you.

DenverNanny said...

So ASKING if the parents ever use nanny cams is sufficient grounds to not hire an otherwise highly-qualified candidate?

Are we forgetting that this is a real job just like anyone else's? They had cameras at McDonald's, but pretty sure all the employees knew where they were. And the was probably a big sign on the wall that read "smile: you're on camera"...

If I was a mom and had just hired a new nanny, yes-- I would prob use a nanny cam for at least a couple weeks since it is hard to develope a strong trust with someone you've only met a few times and there are some scary people out there. HOWEVER--I would inform ALL applicants that I would be occasionally taping and that the camera(s) is moved to a new location every few days.

Despite the firm stance of so many of you mom's, I'm pretty damn sure you'd feel violated and more than a lil pissed if found your employer had a camera in your office and was watching you adjust your hose...or listening to you argue with your DH...or ANY personal behaviors.

As far as the post itself: She should have done it in the privacy of her room or private bathroom and there would be no issue. That's assuming her bedroom and bathroom are actually private...

Elisabeth said...

If you TELL your nanny about the presence of a camera, she will be less likely to abuse or neglect your child or behave inappropriately in your home. What good is it to catch her after she has already done wrong???

And "I'd rather not say", you sound like the kind of woman who would love to catch your nanny giving herself a coffee enema just so you could humiliate her and screen the footage to all of your friends. I hope someone of authority in your life speaks to you in the same degrading and demeaning way that your views conveyed. Shame on you.

~A former nanny, now proud Mom.

mom said...

Oh brother.

No they didn't tell us about cameras at McDonalds. I saw the monitor one day when I happened to go downstairs to the boss' office. I did not feel violated. I felt happy that I had never done anything embarrassing or illegal at work.

As for cameras catching people fighting with their spouses at work. Is work really the place to be doing this? That sounds like wasting the employer's time to me. Maybe exactly the sort of thing they are looking for...just like when they monitor e-mail communications. Fight with your friends and family after work. (But I don't think the cameras capture sound anyway, so if you're prone to goofing off at work in this way you're probably still safe, unless, as I mentioned, you do it via e-mail.) If you're adjusting your hose, picking your nose, or whatever you want to keep private in a common area, you can presumably expect a coworker to walk by at any moment anyway. If you want privacy, use the bathroom. Did you realize you are even videotaped as you shop, walk down the street, etc? Do your private stuff in private places. It's really just that simple.

And yes, since so many nannies here are threatening legal action against employers who use cameras...even thought they are perfectly legal...I owuld simply steer clear of lying to anybody about their use if they should ask and go on to the next candidate. Thsi is because I'm not sure if it is actually legal to lie to somebody and then tape them anyway. If I tape a nanny and they sue me I will win...although I prefer to avoid the hassle and legal fees, so yeah....next candidate please.

Wicker Park Nanny said...

Elisabeth, that is such a good point! Wouldn't you rather have your nanny too worried about the cameras to shake your baby rather than watching the act take place before your eyes? Prevention is the key here folks, "hidden, secret" nanny cams are not effective pro-active tools.

Robert Synnott said...

"Like I said, I'm not a lawyer and I don't know how it works. It just seems to me like an issue could be brought up if a nanny asked an employer directly, prior to being hired, if she would be videotaped and was then blatantly LIED to, it could possibly be a legal issue." - Yes, that would surely at least be breach of contract.

mom said...

True enough...if all you're looking for is potentially fatal incidents of physical abuse.

Do you want the know the general demeanor of your nanny when she's interacting with your kids? Do you want to know if the kids are parked in front of the tv all day long...or if the nanny is? Do you want to know if she handles your infant lovingly, or like a sack of potatoes? Do you want to know if she really reads to them or plays with them...or if she shoes them away while she takes a nap or reads? Do you want to know if your baby sits in his swing all afternoon? Does nanny tickle him and play with him and coo at him? Or does she yell at him when he cries? Does she shove his shoes on and stuff him into his coay before they go out, or do they make a happy game of it? All of these little things go into making your child into the person he will ultimately become. I should hope you know enough about the person you hire that you have somewhat of a trust that they're not going to actually violently harm or kill your child on film (although many are still duped and this does still happen), rather than just setting up a camera, hiring the first warm, cheap body that applies, and hope for the best.

Me, I care how happy my kids are too...not just that they don't get murdered.

mom said...

Make that "shoos" OOPS!

mom said...

I would want the kind of nanny who treats my children well even when she thinks nobody is watching...not the kind who treats them well BECAUSE she thinks I am watching.
That way I would know I have a person of true good character (I believe that character is something that kids learn by example) who I know will be nice at the park and the zoo, and anywhere else she isn't being watched by me. I wouldn't wonder if she was dragging the kids outside to the yard, or into the bathroom, out of view of the cameras to discipline them in ways I wouldn't want.

I would want to prove for myself that the nanny I had carefully chosen, interviewed, checked references for, and believed to be a wonderful person was actually who I thought her to be.

It's not that moms are hoping to hire a slimebag that they think is bad and then catch her red handed hurting their kids! Good grief. Where do some of you get the idea we would EVER hire somebody we think is bad and then try to prove it on film? The point is definitely NOT that people think nannys are inherently bad. WE hire people we believe to be GOOD people, of the best character...only our kids are the most precious thing on the earth to us, and we want to be SURE that we made a good choice on who gets to be with them when we can't. That's all.

DenverNanny said...

Mom: I meant a private office--such as many moms and dads with nannies have...a closed door office so you CAN talk to your DH on the phone in private. But you're right--being taped by your employer when your workplace is also your HOME is MUCH better...

And again--this nanny was OFF the clock...meaning NOT working and merely relaxing at her residence. So, first--why was she still being taped? And second--why were the parents watching it?

If nanny cams are "perfectly legal", then why would the threat of legal action have ANY affect of your choices?

"Where do some of you get the idea we would EVER hire somebody we think is bad and then try to prove it on film?"

Um...Parents may not intentionally hire someone they know is "bad", but maybe they should do THEIR job (research competitive pay/benefits, interviews, check multiple references, background checks, etc) and hire an actual professional childcare provider instead of trying to save money on what should be the most important part of their lives. I see ads all the time (both from individual familes and agency listings) where families are looking for full-time care for less than $300/week and live-ins for "room & board only".

Well, if I was under-paying and over-working my employees, I guess I'd wanna see what they were doing, too.

mom said...

Denver Nanny,

When trying to make a valid argument, it's important to remember to compare apples ro apples.
Taping somebody behind the closed door of their private office, where they have a reasonable expectation of privacy would be similar legally to taping a nanny in her bedroom or the bathroom.

I believe I have been very clear about the fact that it is legal to tape only in common areas.

I know it makes your case sound so much more dramatic to compare that to taping somebody's personal, closed door, office space...but it also starts to sound like you're grasping.
If you want to talk about that, come back and we'll talk when a nanny is unhappy about having been taped in the shower. Then I'll agree with you.

And why do I care to avoid lawsuits even when I know I'll win? There are lawsuits happening in this country every day. In almost every case, one side is the wronged party and the other is the offending party...but both are paying legal fees and sitting an a courtroom instead of beside the pool...that's why.

Marypoppin'pills said...

Denver Nanny makes an excellent point. Why WERE these Parents watching the Nanny in her OFF hours?

Maybe the camera needs a timer.

DenverNanny said...

Apples to apples? Didn't you compare taping minimum wage employees at McDonald's to taping a live-in professional childcare provider--when she's not on the clock?

And I would sincerly hope if a nanny found out she was being taped in the shower, that she would talking to the police instead of asking advice on this site.

mom said...

I was comparing the legality of taping employees in common areas of their work environments, whether it ba at home or in an office setting.

Anybody taped in a place where they have the reasonable expectation of privacy should be calling the police, because that is illegal, whether they are naked or not. Soooo, now I see you are finally getting my point.

I don't know about the legality of taping after work hours...but that does pose an interesting question. I'll ask my huisband later, unless one of our resident lawyers or law students wants to take a stab at answering that one. If the camera is motion activated, it probably just went off when she walked into the room. Maybe dad wasn't checking dates times when he was running through the footage they only scruitnized the dates once it was something weird because they wanted to know what their kids were up to when she was doing this. I imagine people skim footage, with a lot fo fast forwarding, because who wants to watch somebody else's whole day in real time?

twinkiesmom said...

It's OP's kitchen, and OP is justifiably grossed out by mixture of coffee and feces on her counter and/or floor. Who knows how many millions of bacteria nanny left behind performing this stunt in a place where food is prepared.

I would tell any future hirees that previous nanny had a personal hygiene issue you couldn't live with and refuse to provide any further details.

OP, cover your butt re: taping as the law varies from state to state.

same day same dollar said...

MPP,
Shouldn't you know more than your comment led on? Children have crazy schedules, school, appointments, playdates. Maybe grandma came and picked them up on a day they would usually be home. Most cameras run NON STOP or have MOTION SENSORS. Many people use nanny type cameras to monitor activity in their home, even if they don't have children. Housekeepers, repairmen, ect.

What this nanny did was disgusting. The parents did NOTHING wrong!

same day same dollar said...

Are you all that dense? No one is taping a nanny in the shower. You may not have a camera in any bathroom, the nanny's bathroom or in the nanny's room. That is the law!

Marypoppin'pills said...

same day same dollar
Doesn't matter. The Nanny was on her own time when this was done. Was it disgusting? Yes. Was it grounds for dismissal? To me, Yes. That kind of activity in the kitchen is just too dangerous. However, I'm talking about the big picture here. When the Nanny is not working, the cameras should be off.

same day same dollar said...

mary,
What? Just how do you propose the cameras magically turn off everytime a child is not around. That is an absurd suggestion.

Robert Synnott said...

"What? Just how do you propose the cameras magically turn off everytime a child is not around. That is an absurd suggestion." - Fortunately, the time-controlled switch was invented, a mere century or so ago.

Marypoppin'pills said...

same day same dollar
Let's not be dense, ok? Most people know about what hours their Nannies work... why not set the camera to film activity between just those hours?

This is silly, and I'm done.

same day same dollar said...

Mary Poppinz,
I know many people who have nanny camera. Some have to replace memory cards and they just run. I have a friend who still used VHS tapes and it will record 8 hours at a clip, so she doesn't get the whole day in because she is not home to switch the tapes. I have a nother friend who has cameras in her home that she watches from her office computer. She has a special computer with a six screen shot and she can see what is going on at any time. She can sign on to the internet in Spain and still see what is going on, even if there is no one in the house. There is no "stop" button. I don't know what this OP's set up is, but unless you have a high tech device that you can set just when the children are alone with the nanny, I don't see what the big deal is about taping the kitchen of YOUR HOME. I have a nanny four days a week for six hours a day, but I also have a babysitter that I use every Friday night and most Sunday afternoons. The safest bet is just to keep your cameras on, providing they are in common areas. Never put a camera in a bedroom or bathroom. That's common sense. You and Mr. Smynott seem not to be able to comprehend the varied schedules a nanny works, and you, shockingly MPP are very nearly insulting the OP, something I thought we were cautioned not to do. Yes, you are ascribing blame to the OP. Shame, shame on you.

cfg said...

Same day, Same dollar -
You are just trying to win an argument for arguments sake. Nowhere do I see MPP blaming the OP for her actions. She even says SHE WOULD HAVE FIRED THE NANNY, TOO!
And I happen to agree that nannies should be allowed to enjoy their privacy when they are off the clock. Most people can turn a camera on when they leave for the day, and turn it OFF when the come home. You don't even need a timer. Either way, you were incredibly insulting yourself to assume that she was jumping on the OP when that is clearly NOT the case.

Maybe she can douche there too said...

Doing what she did in the kitchen is disgusting!! Would the people who think it's ok still think it was okay if she douched or changed a maxi pad in the kitchen since she's a live in????

And for cameras, I am all for them, and don't think the Nannies need to know - there is way too much that goes on that parents don't know about!!!!!!!!!! Get a camera!

Solution said...

For the nanny cam problem - Lie to the Nanny - Tell her there ARE cameras all over the house but DON'T actually have cameras.

Shane Britton said...

There are undoubtedly many legal ramifications involved in your particular situation. However, the legal precedent largely depends on the state in which you live. In Kentucky, for example, you would be prosecuted for "video voyeurism," a Class D felony that carries one to five years' imprisonment. And rightfully so: you are retaining the footage ex post facto to the incident. Many people would see that as a perversity of some sort on your part. If you are so distrustful that you are constantly using a nanny can, and thus constantly reviewing footage, then you have an issue, not the nanny. I would hope that the nanny learns that you are retaining the footage and, if she were my client, you would be both criminally prosecuted and subsequently sued for substantial damages.