Kidz Bounce-Seattle/East
Weds. 10 AM
Nanny-Hispanic, older, wearing a scarf on her head, tan slacks, nursing style shoes, carrying a large canvas tote with knitting equipment.
Her charge-a boy of about 3, blondish straight hair, freckles, wearing a blue and red rugby style shirt and blue jeans.
The problem- the child was out of control and disruptive to several other children including my own. I had to track down who he was with because it was not immediately apparent. Nanny was in another area sitting and knitting. The child hit my child in the head after pretending to cock a gun, the child also made a shotgun sound and said, 'you're dead in the head'. I said to him, "this is not appropriate, who are you here with". He took me to his nanny. I told her about his behavior. At first she looked bored to be bothered, than she grabbed him by the earlobe and brought his face very close to hers and said some very harsh things to him in a whisper. After she let go of his ear, she turned him around roughly and pushed him, pushed him hard so he had to catch his step. His behavior changed after that, but I think his behavior would have been better from the get go if he had some intermittent supervision from lazy knitting nanny.
*The mother who submitted this sighting has elected to leave commenting available on this post.
93 comments:
Wow. Nanny needs to take some child development classes.
To me, the issue in this sighting is that the nanny was abusive, not that the child didn't behave or wasn't being supervised. I actually know this place (for once) and it is not typical for adults to follow the kids on to all the bouncy things.
As far as gun play, my preschooler and his friends often play like that and I don't have a problem with it, although I respect the right of anyone being "shot" at to object and to have that be honored. I don't think a total stranger should get to decide what type of imaginative play is "appropriate" or "inappropriate" for another family.
I agree with wtf. Although I think that Nanny should be within eye shot? So she can at least keep an eye on him.
Yep. If OP was merely objecting to the kid hitting her kid, fine, but I hope she wasn't saying "that's not appropriate" to another kid pretending to fire a gun. That's for the parents to decide. If you want to say "We don't play guns in our family" that's fine, but not "that's inappropriate."
Some of you are really missing the big picture here! Maybe OP saying "that's inappropriate" meaning "DON'T HIT MY CHILD". And aside from this Nanny being negligent, she GRABBED this child by his ear!
OP, good post, thank you!
I'm a mom
Hard Ear pulling is a HUGE and very common thing in the Mexican culture.In many large cities with a Mexican population,you can walk into any Wal-Mart and witness this ten times in an hour!Pulling braids also plays a factor.
It is a shame. I am sure this nanny was raised in a culture that did the same.
The child couldn't have been too bad , when you asked him who he was with he took you right to his nanny.
A lot of 3 yr olds hit, it seems to me all kids hit at sometime or another, but usually they have a reason for smacking another kid.
AS far as the gun play goes which seems to me to be the complaint of this story, it is no ones business but the family if they let the kids play with make believe guns or just use their hands as a gun, many kids are still able to play cops and robbers like they have done for a hundred or more years until people got on this silly band wagon .
Should the nanny have tackeled his ear? Well maybe ,maybe not. It depends if the parents also pull his ear to get his attention. Personally I dont like stretching kids ears as it makes them look strange as they get older to have these big ears from a nanny pulling on them or a parent. Maybe this is the way they let this child know they mean business by grabbing his ear,or smacking his rear? I remember having my ear pulled and being escorted home with my mother hanging onto that ear, and telling me what was going to happen to my rear when I got home, all because I didnt take body home right after school. I wonder what harsh things she said to this out of control child that made him stop? Because if the nanny whispered these things how do you know if they were harsh?
If she pushed this child that hard, did you say anything to her about pushing him that hard?? Like, "that child could have fallen and gotten hurt, how dare you push a child like that??"
Just wondering.
The culture you're raised in is no excuse for being abusive, particularly when it's not your child. I'd think the parents would want to know.
Jane,these are the kinds of conversations I find interesting and what keep me coming back to the blog. I'd finf it a shame if the comments were not enabled on sightings like this.
This child is probably treated this way all the time. Either his parents do it too, or they have no idea. Result- out of control kid. It's not rocket science that will be the result. But for some reason this way of treating kids just goes on and on, generation after generation.
I'm not going to comment on the gun issue because like a lot of people have mentioned it is personal decision.
The nanny should have been watching the child and she shouldn't pull the child's ear to 'discipline' him.
When my charge pushed a child I made her come down off the play equipment and told her that we had to leave because she couldn't keep her hands to herself. We left much to her protest and tears and she learned by just that one little incident not to put her hands on another child.
There are many other ways to discipline a child without actually putting your hands on the child and the nanny needs to learn them.
WTF,
It will remain the choice of the person submitting the sighting whether or not the comments should remain open. I feel that a fair compromise.
Down to Earth,
I think the fact that the child took the parent to his nanny only demonstrates a respect of authority and the possibility that had he been supervised, his behavior would not have been quite so atrocious.
ohwhynot,
If someone were to point a pretend gun at my child's head, make a gunshot sound and tell her she was dead, that would most definitely be inappropriate. The child is in a public venue, not at home. I don't think it's a "personal issue", especially when the "gunshot" is followed by a blow to the head.
Different cultures have different views and beliefs in child development, however abuse is abuse, no matter what country you live in.
I agree with WTF on the commenting... it's the best part of reading here!!
I am always stunned by the lack of interaction by some of the nannies posted on here! Are there any parents on here that have people "drop in" on places that the nanny is at with the kids? I'm curious, because I know if I had a nanny, I would be randomly checking up on him/her at least once in awhile, because you just never know.
1. The ear thing is especially awful.
2. Also knowing Kidz Bounce, I agree with WTF?, the issue is not that the nanny wasn't hovering. However I also agree with Lindsey, within an eye shot should always be the aim.
I hope the parents of this child are reading. This woman shouldn't be watching that boy, and I could use another "nanny needed" posting in the Seattle childcare section. :D
Jane,
How about having comments be the default? Comments are enabled *unless* the mother or nanny sending in the sighting requests otherwise?
NVMom said...
"This child is probably treated this way all the time. Either his parents do it too, or they have no idea. Result- out of control kid."
I couldn't agree with you more, NVMom. Tonight I took my son to the Playplace at Lynnhaven Mall. I was surprised to see so many aggressive young children. One in particular, a little 4 yo redhead, walked right up to a baby about 15 mo old, and pushed her down, deliberately. The baby started crying and the Mom, who was on the phone the whole time she was there, just walked over, picked up the baby like a football, and put her in the stroller, never skipping a beat with that phone call. The little redheaded girl's Mom was standing next to me and I told her that her daughter pushed the baby down and she said, "Oh, it must have been an accident". I said, "No it wasn't, she did it on purpose."
She was too busy talking to her friend to know what her kid was doing... she was a little bully.
When her Mom called her over to leave she got extremely upset and started to have a tantrum... I then realized why her daughter was so aggressive... her Mom jerked her up by her arm and screamed within an inch of her face, making a huge echo in the Mall, "I said it was time to go now!! If you don't stop crying I will throw you in a corner right here!!"
I was stunned. Usually people are at least attempting to look like a decent Parent while out in Public. All I could do was imagine what kind of Mother she must be at home in private.
Jane,
No. This was a child, not "someone" like an adult and a child will play as they're used to. There is no harm in pointing and making a gunshot sound. The harm was the blow to the head. That was the inappropriate part.
If it was only the pointing and gunshot sound, telling the child that that was inappropriate, when the child was neither your own or your charge, would be the inappropriate act.
Any reaction that would illicit would be your fault.
Are you kidding? I agree with Jane, if some unsupervised kid is pretending to kill my child, you damn bet I am going to say something.
jo jo,
You're wrong, as is she. You both would cross a terrible line that quite frankly you have absolutely no business crossing, whatever the reason. I should clarify what I mean.
Had it been just the gunshot noise and pointing, telling the child that that was inappropriate would be impressing upon them a value judgment. You would be effectively pushing your own beliefs on the child of another. Thus why it becomes inappropriate.
However, telling the child to, "Please stop doing that" is perfectly fine. It accomplishes your goal of having the action stop around your child, while not trying to push a belief system.
Again, this is if it had only been the noise and pointing. The hitting in this case, well, that's universally accepted as a no no.
* Alternatively, "I don't like you doing that." or "We don't like you doing that."
There are good alternatives.
I'm going to have to agree with Nope.
I have had some family tragedies involving guns and I refuse to allow them into my home even though my husband is in the military. I don't buy toy guns for my son but if he makes it out of legos or blocks or even his fingers then I play along with him. I don't scold him for it and I would be upset if another parent scolded my son for playing guns.
It is my personal right to raise my child how I see fit. I respect other peoples right to raise their children how they see fit and I like Nope's suggestions of what you can say if you don't like what a child is doing around or to your child.
I'm shocked at some of you. Raise your children like animals if you wish, but I will definitely call something inappropriate if it INVOLVES my child.
My children jump on their beds and climb on their furniture. They don't do that when they go to their friend's homes and if they did, I certainly would hope someone would tell them that it is INAPPROPRIATE!
However, since this child was unsupervised and since this child accompanied an unknown person off from where he was pretending to kill other children, I would think that any sane or right minded person would be more concerned about the lack of supervision and even more concerned that the mother involved could very well have been a seedy predator.
Let's keep the discussion real. Instead of acting like complete idiots about the use of the word appropriate. Because guess what, if the kid would have pulled that crap in a school, his teacher most definitely would have judged those actions as WRONG.
adah you lost it when you called children animals simply because you don't believe in the way they are being raised and calling other people idiots. Catty behavior like this is one of the reasons people don't post on here and one of the reasons comments on nanny sightings will be closed.
If you want to discuss something there are other ways to do it rather than attacking someone for their beliefs. Notice how I disagreed with Jane and a few others yet I didn't call them names or try to make jabs about their children? Your much more likely to get a response if debate/discuss rather than insult.
TC,
Well I think it's infuriating when someone goes off on a tangent to do what---- find a way critisize the OP, because that is exactly what you were doing. You have to find something negative to say about the OP, right? How is that even important or relative to the situation of the child being abused by the nanny? So keep it to yourself and address the nanny who is being reported. This is not a perspective and opinion question.
Frustration is the word. I am so frustrated with these nanny types and the way the dissect these posts. It truly sickens me. And by nanny types, I don't mean all nannies, I mean you low caliber nannies. You know who you are.
"We don't play with guns in our family" Are you joking? How about, "Don't you dare lay a hand on my child, you little rat bastard." Would that be better?
Back to what the other poster says. You can allow your children to phis in the bathtub and jump on the sofas in your home, but a responsible parent also teaches them, so that they don't have to be told, just what is and is not appropriate outside of home. And if you as a parent fail that mission, I for one will most definitely fill you, your child, your nanny and your cousin Stewie in on just what is and is not acceptable behavior in public.
LOL Lauren go back and re-read what I posed before the comment where I was agreeing with Nope.
I wasn't criticizing the OP in any way shape or form. I was simply continuing the conversation that Nope, Jane and a few others were discussing.
adah I'm not going to continue a conversation with you.
Have a nice night.
My son plays "guns" with his friends at preschool. There are no actual guns there. They make them out of pieces of leggo track. That's what boys do. It's imaginative play. If you don't want me to tell your preschool aged daughter to stop playing dolls and princesses to go get a job, don't interfere with my son's way of playing.
Like I originally said, my child and I both respect your right not to play that way.
You better believe I would set any raving monster out of control brat straight if they pointed ANYTHING at my son's head, made gun noises, pretending to shoot him, and told him he was "dead in the head". For at least 2 reasons: a child CAN be old enough to understand "dead", but can still be young enough to get a bit confused about fantasy vs. reality. So it could be very disturbing to them to have a kid do that, and I'd not tolerate it being done to my child, with or without a physical blow accompanying the "game". And 2, kids mimic what other kids do, and I sure as hell amd not going to allow someone else's bad manners to teach my son to mimic behavior that I'd want to discourage.
Sure, some parents may allow their 3 year olds to use the F word, B word, threaten other kids,and all kinds of ridiculous unacceptable bullshit. Because some people are just dumb that way. But that doesn't mean that total strangers who are being annoyed by the kids'atrocious habits should be expected to smile politely and look the other way if the child screams a string of cuss words at and threatens to punch a baby, just because his parents have taught him that he should be "tough", so it's fine to intimidate people smaller than him just to show that he can.
Yes, in many trailer parks that sort of play is still permitted. It is not permitted at my child's preschool or at the private school my daughter attends. So you and your little inbreds are welcome to do as you wish. I sincerely doubt, unless we have cause to be included in a chucky cheese party in your area, that we will ever, ever cross paths. Of course, should we, and should your mismanaged child be pretending to cock and fire a gun at my child's head and tell her she's dead, I will open my mouth.
And you will listen.
Just Guess, very well stated.
MPP, nice to see you posting again! :)
LOL. So much for the respectful exchange of ideas. I'm not going to continue to converse with people who are being ridiculous. There has been plenty of research on that sort of imaginative play and the benefits of it, particularly for boys. Books have been written on the topic of gun and superhero play. I'm sure you can research the topic if you're actually interested. It's hardly cut and dry. My boys are the nicest kids you'll ever meet. Neither of them has an actual violent, mean bone in their bodies: for example, they'd never actually touch another person without permission and they definitely are not hitters. They include anyone who asks in their play and they'd both be mortified at the very idea of doing anything that would get them in trouble at school. But hey, if you try to hijack the Millenium Falcon, you're going to be lightsabered or shot with some kind of laser.
I also wanted to add that banning particular types of play just makes them more appealing. I'm reminded of a story that our preschool director told at a board meeting a while back. She'd visited a local montessori school, where weapon play was banned, to observe and that she watched all the little boys hiding behind chairs and quietly shooting each other with their fingers when they thought no one was looking.
You guys seriously can't distinguish between a develpomentally typical type of imaginative play that preschool aged boys gravitate towards, and swearing like a sailor? Really?
I have junior high schooler and as far as language goes, I've tried to teach her to know her audience. Parents and teachers don't want to hear you talk like that. But I'm not under some grand illusion that the child doesn't swear when she's alone with her peers, nor do I especially care.
As the saying goes, your "rights" end at the tip of your nose.
Sure, if 2 kids who were friends were pretending to blast each other's brains out and dance in the puddles of blood, I wouldn't go up to their parents and lecture them on the "inappropriate" way their kids were playing. Nor would I tell a parent whose daughter was playing "bride" that her game was inappropriate just because it wasn't gender neutral. But if one of them tried the gun game on any other child in my charge, designating him as the victim, I would most definitely have the right to tell them they may NOT play that game with my child. It's the kind of game that you might explain to kids is okay AS LONG AS everyone involved agrees that they want to play it. It's NOT okay to let a kid designate someone else as the murder victim, bad guy, abandoned child or poopoo head if they don't want to play that character.
Swear words are obviously forbidden in most cases as well, but does that mean we should just say it's fine for kids to call each other "fuckhead" because if we try to forbid it, they'll just want to do it more?
You guys miss the point entirely. Kids will be kids. There are some things that are for the most part universally 'wrong' like cussing or hitting. And then there are some things that are 'questionable' like allowing a child to play guns, or drink soda, or eat junk food. Some parents allow it while others don't. I respect your right to raise your child as you see fit just like I expect you to respect my right to raise my child as I see fit.
It has nothing to do with trailer parks and it's sad that some of you guys can not actually debate and must resort to antics like that.
Sadly instead of actually debating this thread has turned into making jabs at others so I'm done with this conversation. We all could have learned from each other but instead it turned into yet another squabble and I don't want to be a part of it.
I am Portuguese and the ear pulling thing is huge! I get so freaked out when I see people do it because I remember it being done to me as a child! I WILL NOT do it to my child and will not allow other to do it.
Didn't some classical composer or something lose his hearing after their parents either pulled or picked them up by the ears.
With the gun thing. My son never had a toy gun in his life yet he'd pick up a hockey stick and cock it like a shot gun and yell boom! I think it's just the way boys are hard wired.
I took car of a boy once for 3 years and he was scary! He had ADHD and ODD. Such a patience trying child! He would "kidnap" his sister's Barbies, tie them up and hang them by the necks off the drawer pulls on his dresser! he would make my skin crawl!
Thank you, tip of my nose. I posted that last night but I gues it showed up anon by accident.
WTF again, no one is advocating marching up to a prent and telling them what games their kids should be allowed to do in their own home or with their own friends. But no child should be allowed to intimidate or bully another, and pretending to shoot other kids, declaring them dead, or assigning them the part that no one wants to play, is exactly that. You seriously can't disntinguish between 2 friends playing a weird game and one kid acting aggressively toward another?
WTF, I think you are getting lost in the semantics of the whole thing. And I agree, if two children unknown to me were pretending to blow each others brains out, I would just have to look away. But when my child is involved, I can and will say what I choose to say. Whether I choose to say, "stop that this instant" or "That is not appropriate" or "This kind of play needs to stop this instant", does it matter?
Now back to the sighting at hand, regardless of what country she came from, irrelevant. That's not the correct way to treat or supervise a child. Thank you for the post, OP.
On the pulling ear part, NO, it was not OK, because it was not her child. I work with three different families and I never ever hit or pull ears. But.........I honestly don't think it is a big deal, if it is your child (I can see the flaming coming :-) Sorry, but I was raised in a country, where smacking and ear pulling is common. The thing was, I knew I damn well deserved it, when I got hit. Somebody said the ear pulling was abuse (not because it was somebody else's child, but in general) and I have a big problem with that. I will try to explain why. Recently, I witnessed a very disturbing accident with a friend of mine. His teenage daughter wanted to go to a party and he felt it was not safe or something like that. So, the girl got all enraged and told him: "Well, then I will call the police and tell them you are abusing me, cause they told us at school that abuse can be even grabbing me by the arm without leaving any marks, so you can not prove you didn't hit me, and ha, see I have a big weapon against you!" WHAT IN HELL DO YOU DO THEN? See, that's my problem. There is no clear boundary between losing your patience and smacking a kid on the butt and outright beating your child senseless. Everything is deemed abuse. My parents would have killed me, if I had ever said anything like that.
Now, on to the nanny's behavior: not paying attention to the boy - unacceptable; pushing him hard in the back - very bad idea; not talking to him about bullying other children - plain stupid.
All in all, I love this site and I hope all the parents with bad nannies find out about them. I just needed to give my opinion on the "abuse" calling issue is all.
The ear pulling and hitting and smacking upside the head, and cussing and bopping in the mouth is all aparent in the Mexican culture. But this is not HER child. She can't treat someone elses kid like that. I married into a mexican family, my step-sons mother treats him like that. All the aunt's and uncles treat their kids like that, I won't because they are not my kids.
Culture difference is aparent but like I said it is not HER kid. And if this is how she disciplines then she needs to disclose that with the parents.
Phoenix, I am not Mexican, I am European, but yes, it's the same smacking and ear-pulling routine there too. The whole point is, like you said, you smack your own kids, not the ones you take care of.
Oh etereia!
My step-son said that to his dad one day. He didn't want to clean his room or something, his dad said he had to... ect ect. So the kid said "I don't have to, and I will tell my teacher that you hit me!" So his dad hit him really hard on the lower back (he meant to get his rear but missed), and then he said "since I told you to always tell the truth, now you don't have to lie at the same time." Man my step-son was shocked, he started to clean his room and that was the end of it. He knew he messed up, and this strange thing they are saying to kids in school is weird. abuse has always happened, but now they are saying you can't even put your hands on a child. We should just let them do whatever they want all the time, that way they can learn for themselves? That is BS.
I remember when I was three on my way to preschool and my dad lit a match held it in his hand and said look how pretty. I touched the flame and cried out in pain. My dad looked at me and said that is why we don't play with matches. I will tell you that I was scarred of using matches till I turned 16. I was always afraid of things being lit on fire. Now that is how you teach a kid not to play with fire. Lesson learned -- today that would be known as abuse.
Hitting for no reason is wrong, spanking a naughty child lets them know they messed up and that is the punishment.
Hehe, Phoenix, this is becoming a really funny thread. I did not actually disclose the end of the drama with my friend's daughter. When she said that to her dad, he said: "OK, go ahead and call the cops, but while you are at it you might as well call yourself an ambulance, too, cause now I am going to beat the hell out of you!"
I remember one time, when I was a kid, I said something very rude to my mom in front of some people...well, a lightning quick smack across my mouth (honestly, it did not hurt at all, but startled the bejesus out of me) taught me to never ever be disrespectful to my parents, ESPECIALLY in front of other people.
Ear pulling is very common in many cultures,not mine,but many that live in my area.Sometimes I cringe as a child is raised up off the ground....
The gun issue is personal and for everyone wanting to "tell a child what is or is not appropriate behavior" well, that is not your place..at all! The besy wat to handle it is to address your own child..especially if you are claiming that the reason you are adressing the other child is" to discourage bad manners from being mimmicked"
Try this"Max,we don't play guns,lets find something else to do" or"I am sorry that little boy hit you.That was not a nice thing to do"
This allows you to continue to teach your child and gives you the opportunity to teach them according to your beliefs.
Telling a child gunplay is inappropriate simply because you do not believe in it is out of line.
The nanny obviously needed to pay closer attention,no question about that.As for her charge hitting your child. Yes, you have every right to address her..NOT THE CHILD!Again,not your place.
As for the posts,it was a fabulous debate until the same old posters had to start name calling and making derogatory statements.As usual.
Jane,here is your oopportunity to clean things up.The writing is on the wall.Why let them continue to behave this way? They ran off a few very sensible and reasonable posters (on this thread alone), who were capable of debating like adults...that is what most of us stick around for.You don't have to censor them but a good old fashion ass-chewing & warning might be in order.
Nope,TC & WTF..classy posters..along with a few others made this an enjoyable thread!!Thanks! It was fun while it lasted.
To the name callers....ya ruined a good thread!
phoenix & etereia,funny stories. Spanking was part of my child hood too. I was smacked once and once only. I too was disrespectful,verbally,to my mom,I got it across the mouth. What hurt me more than the smack though was the realization that I must have really upset & hurt my mom to have ilicited that reaction from her. The look on her face killed me! I never spoke that way to her again.As an adult, I know I deserved what I got.
Your stories sound like a line from a Medea Movie..
"call the popo,I still got 8 minutes to beat your ass for they get here" or something to that affect.One of my own children once said to me during a casual conversation"yeah, if you ever hit me I would call the police" I informed them,well,kiddo,pack your bags then too because you will be going with them,as you will need a new place to live"
I was informed my point was made!
Too many parents want to be their kids friends..kids have friends..they need parents!!
Yes and of course the only way you can make it known that you are the parent or in charge is by hitting your children. Kudos to you.
My children know I am the boss because I have rules, I am consistent and I have expectations of them that I never waver on. I have never laid a hand on my children.
I hope some big, fat, pool player with a port wine stain beats on your ass just to show you who's boss.
That's what it is... kids are now so disrespectful. I don't understand how this happened. I just don't understand it.
See, Phoenix, EFG and myself, we just poked a stick in a hornet's nest :-) So tired of..., sorry, but I do not believe you. The kids I take care of really listen to me, cause I, too, have rules and mean business, but they also listen to me, BECAUSE I AM NOT MOMMY. You would not believe the crap my little angels pull with their parents.So, yea, let the name calling begin anew!
I don't consider spanking abuse. I never did. My mom wasn't a hitter... she was a kicker. I disrespected her one time (as all teenagers do) and she warned me twice, I still did it. So she kicked my shin (that was her thing) and it hurt and embarrassed the crap outa me. She said "now you know how I feel when you embarass me in public"
Or what are you supposed to do, when the kids now a days are abusing their parents? I know of one family who was getting abused by the teenage boy, he was hitting is mom! Was she supposed to stand their and take it? She defended herself.
Oh, and I was on my college track and swim teams back in my country, so, the regular fat, pool players do not stand a chance of catching me! :-)
My God- some of you people are so ignorant. It's perfectly okay to kick a child? You all are trapped in some sort of sadistic allegiance to your abusive parents. Break the fuck free.
Are you all the same dipshits who are defaulting on your mortgages?
Man in charge, thank you so much for enlightening me. I realize I would have rather had a father like you, who uses the f word at other people, who just happen to express a different opinion. Give me a break!
I'm so curious as to why a certain way a child is disciplined (ear pulling, etc) would be so rampant in one particular culture? I find it outrageous that anyone would think this is ok.
Some of you are just revolting and your "funny" stories about child abuse are just that. Interesting that the children involved are so "disrespectful". My kids don't have anyone hitting and they'd never in a million years talk to their father or me like that. This thread has become too disgusting to even read. Some of you need help!
Bella, I really find it hard to explain why I think ear-pulling is OK. I know I stirred the pot with my comments, but I was just trying to say that the simple fact of knowing I would get it, if I behaved like a little monster, prevented me from doing the said mischief...in the most cases. What I don't understand is why I can see your point of view, even if I don't agree with it, and you people call me a fuck and a dipshit. Yes, I love this country, because I chose to come and live in the US for many reasons, but I do disagree with a few things around here and one of them is the parenting. I have never seen such disrespectful and tantrum-throwing kids; I have never talked to my teachers the way US American children do; and I have never been called rude names for thinking my parents did an excellent job raising me.
WTF?, congratulations for being the best mom in the world.
i personally think the big difference is that Americans are raising these kids to be monsters. I have never hit a child, nor do i need to. i have enough going for me that they listen. But if my kid behaved like I see some of these kids out there behaving, I would knock him upside the head so fast you couldn't blink. It's rude. i had a little kid call me a bitch because I told her to put her toys away, I've had some kid hitting me in line at the grocery store while his dad went, NO NO you're going to get a time out!
Just because we feel that certain kinds of discipline our our choice, we are not dumb or ignorant. Shame on you people for using such foul language to strangers. Obviously you were never taught how to behave! you should be bopped in the mouth for that.
Like I will say again. Spanking a kid is not abuse. If someone beats there kid that causes bruising (abuse). Making a kid have a red mark for 30 seconds is not abuse. I beleive that a child shouldn't be hit in the face because that's wrong. Spanking, slapping hands, using two fingers to bop the mouth---that's okay.
Oh and NEVER strike a child with a closed fist...
etereia
I certainly don't have to agree with someone else's disciplinary methods, but I wouldn't call them names because of it. That's just foul.
Oh Christ, Phoenix! Were you the one who said they never wanted children? I sure hope so. You sound like you would be a very cruel mother!
Oh, Phoenix, you stole my last thought :-) I just wanted to ask WTF? and Man in Charge if their techniques of child-rearing include telling their children that it is OK to call people horrible names when they express a radically different opinion; and also agreeing that, because of the differences in their opinions, it is safe to assume that the mentioned people are ignorant (have you heard the joke that says:"When you assume something - you make an ASS of U and ME").Cause you really don't know how educated I am - it's all assumptions.
Soooo let me get this straight, you complain that the kid was acting "disruptive and rude" and that nanny did nothing but the nanny disciplines him and its wrong. Also how is it the nanny's fault blame the parents. There are some kids that need a harsh talking to. I know kids that are Damien in real life and if the parents gave them a quick smack they would be fine. I dont get it.....
It's NOT ok!!!
Yes I was the one who said that I didn't want children. I would not be a cruel mother, just a strict one. you have to understand my point is that I do know child psychology and how children react to certain types of discipline. Some children would not be able to handle getting spanked, and talking to them can do the trick. Other kids will not listen and they will not behave and spanking them may be the only way to get them to understand their actions are wrong.
if children are not told they are wrong and they think that there are no consequences to their actions they are going to be horrifying adults. I really hope that our country will not be run by people who think everyone deserves a trpohy no matter what, and people that have no regard for others but themselves....oh wait isnt' that already happening?
Dear God, was I right to participate in these comments. Some of the bloggers are showing their true colors and I tremendously enjoy it. I just texted one of the moms I work for and she is having the time of her life, too, reading all the stuff in this thread.
I am trying to be as nice as possible to everyone, and so far I have been called cruel, ignorant, and a dipshit.... all because I think different than someone else.
i truely have to wonder who the real ignorant ones are. i have never ever said that anyone was bad because of their opinion. It is your opinion and you have rights to it. No one can ever take that away from you. Being your own person and standing up for your own beliefs is wonderful. don't ever stop doing it. But don't criticize someone for being different. Wouldn't the presidential debate be wonderful to watch if they called eachother dipshits, and ignorant mother f#%@#
don't judge, you don't have to accept just listen and be on your way. The world is filled with anger, hostility, and hate... be better than that. No name calling
i try to understand you, Phx, I really do, but I don't see how you can be so flip about such awful things. If I ever saw a child being KICKED or HIT REALLY HARD IN THE LOWER BACK I would call the police not be talking about how hilarious it was. And I certainly wouldn't stay married to someone who would act like that. I think you've got a lot of nerve telling others not "name call" or "be filled with anger and hate" when you condone really horrendous things.
Oh, and etereia, it's pretty easy to be The Best Mom In The World when you set the bar so low. Apparently all I have to do is refraining from actually ASSAULTING the children! I wouldn't be so quick to brag about how well I was raised if I were you. Your ideas about what's acceptable are pretty bizarre. Please tell me you don't have or work with children.
I want to point out that I am not talking about spanking here. I'm talking about all the "hilarious" kicking, hitting on the back, hitting in the face, popping in the mouth, ear pulling etc... I cannot believe we're not all civilized enough to understand that sort of behavior is wrong, if not downright criminal.
See, WTF?, obviously you did not read my comments carefully. I said I am a nanny for three different families and I never eeeever hit, pull ears or kick the kids. I have been with one of these families since their youngest one was 4 months old and now she is 5 years old. Do you think all these people would have kept me in their employ if I was beating on their children? None of them believe in smacking or ear pulling and that's fine with me, even though I do not agree with them. I don't have to agree with the parents on everything to be a good nanny. I just follow their rules and parenting guidelines and try to do my best. And speaking of wrong behavior, you did not answer my direct question from the previous comment - do you teach your kids ugly name calling as part of your parenting? You know, you actually do blow my mind by attacking not only me, but my parents as well. You take the cake, lady!
I have no idea what you're talking about. Where have I call you any name?
Your parents abused you and consequently you have a very warped view of what behavior is appropriate. I have no problem stating the truth. If you want to call that "being attacked", so be it. It is MORALLY WRONG to hit a child in the face or drag then about by the ears. This is a lesson that your parents failed to teach you. None of your stories are funnyl they're just disturbing.
Well, WTF?, I will very gladly refresh your memory. At 3:38 PM you wrote: "Some of you are just revolting...", meaning all of us who did not agree with your opinion. A little bit later you said that Phoenix and myself are "flip" and then "we're not all civilized enough". Civilized people DO NOT DO UGLY NAME- CALLING. Anyway, it was nice debating parenting with you. I am sure we will get a chance to do it again soon. Have a good night.
LOLOL. Now just using adjectives you don't like qualifies as name calling? On what PLANET? That is seriously warped. Let me get this straight:
Kicking, hitting in the face, ear pulling, threatening to beat the children until they need an ambulance = GOOD/HILARIOUS.
Using the adjectives revolting, flip, and uncivilized to describe such lovely parent/child interactions = BAD/UGLY NAME CALLING.
Wow. I can only DREAM of being as civilized as you.
Man in Charge, thank you.
Of course, it is NEVER acceptable to use strong language or insults when speaking to someone who has a different view point from your own. You just kick them in the shins, smack them across the mouth and threaten to beat the crap out of them like any sensible adult would do.
And I'm willing to bet these psychotic teenagers who "needed" to be beaten had learned their violent and agressive tendencies from those who accidentally spawned them.
OK, I have had enough of this self-righteous nonsense. WTF?, I feel this uncontrollable urge to use some of your adjectives to describe what I think about you, but I will not stoop that low. Besides, you say it yourself, simple and clear, by using the f word in your moniker. And the gentleman who called me dipshit - that was a good one!
Oh, get over yourself! If you're not enjoying the conversation, bow out. If I want to say
FUCK
Fuck
fuck
fk
or f*ck
on an ADULT forum, I will. I don't swear on front of my kids and you're not my mommy (Thank God!)
Ts-ts, not paying attention again, WTF? I did say I enjoy the debate, so I will certainly not "bow out." And you are right, you can curse as much as you want.
okay, seriously. chill out, all of you.
there seem to be two extremes here:
those of you who completely disagree with laying a hand on a child as discipline (whether they are getting punched in the face or a light tap on the bottom)
and those of you who think it is okay in certain situations (again, either being punched in the face and losing some teeth or a light tap on the bottom)
now, there is a HUGE difference between KICKING a CHILD and giving them a few light spankings. if you can't recognize that difference, then i'm sorry i can't help you.
im not saying its okay, i am just saying there is a big difference.
WTF?: "LOLOL. Now just using adjectives you don't like qualifies as name calling? On what PLANET?"
fat is an adjective. if you called someone fat, you would probably hurt their feelings.
ugly is an adjective. if you called someone ugly, you would probably hurt their feelings.
if they dont think they are fat or ugly, you might not hurt their feelings. it really depends on the PERSON.
i think you can see where i am going with this, so i will let you draw your own conclusions.
"I think you've got a lot of nerve telling others not "name call" or "be filled with anger and hate" when you condone really horrendous things."
you know that saying beauty is in the eye of the beholder? well, i think that can be applied in this situation as well. of course there is a line that is drawn when it reaches 'abuse'. if you lightly spank your child, swat their hand, etc.. unless you leave bruises you will most likely not be arrested nor would it be considered abuse. but its really in the eye of the beholder to decide whether they would want to use that kind of tactic with their children. so while you may think it is horrendous, that is your OPINION.
and then like i said, if the line gets crossed, that is when it can be considered ACTUAL abuse.
but really, you guys should just relax. this is the internet :P no need to get all worked up.
I agree that enough is enough. By the way, after all this bantering, I just checked the California State Laws, and according to these laws child abuse is "greatly injuring a child or deliberately causing death..." I still don't think that a smack on the butt constitutes a great bodily injury, but, you know, I have presented my case and I am done arguing.
WTF?
Sometimes I agree with you, sometimes I don't. Most times I find you fairly harsh, however, when I see you debating subjects like spanking I know that I can just sit back and relax knowing that you've got the wheel and will handle it beautifully.
So, thank you.
WTF,
I really enjoyed your last comment.
Eteria,
I think you need to develop a little bit of a thicker skin because complaining about being called flip? Well, that's something to laugh at.
Hmmmm.
Spanking will be considered ACTUAL abuse when the laws get passed against it. And we will have to resort to fucking laws because there are so many of you self righteous, slap happy, "i wanna be known as the boss" parental units.
If we could reason with the likes of you, we wouldn't need so much government. But the time will come when the government will step in and prevent you from giving your children their "spankings".
**but this doesn't mean you get to place their hand on a burner to teach them the stove is hot.
Oh brother, do we have our work cut out for us!
Looks like I am still not done after all. Jane Doe, I was honestly not complaining about anything. WTF? called me and a couple of other people ugly and uncalled for names and then she said she did not know what I was talking about, so, I reminded her. I don't really care what she calls me, the whole thing was about smacking and ear pulling, and not about what we think of each other.
Peace & Love
Peace & Love
Peace & Love
adah leah,
Your comments were uncalled for and completely OUT OF CONTEXT.
When I talked about a different way to go about expressing a distaste for gun play, I made sure to specifically say that I was not talking about the hitting in this sighting. I said it several times so no one would make the mistake you did. You however proceeded to attack. Again, I didn't say you had no right to speak out against something you did not like that involved your child, but there is sure as heck a wrong way to go about it.
You have no right to tell child that is not your own whether or not playing guns in inappropriate. It is not a universal value. A great many see it as harmless. And to call us idiots for pointing out that there is another way to go about it, a more diplomatic way is hardly becoming of a model parent. Raise your children as you wish, but don't bother trying to raise mine. You have NO right.
cali mom,
Again, reread what I said. I too would express some distaste in the behavior, the "dead in the head" part I'm not particularly fond of. However, there is a right way and a wrong way to express that. My child is not your child, you have no right to impress upon him a value system, nor do I have any right to tell your child, "God doesn't exist."
It's the same darn thing. You have to be diplomatic, even with a child, "Please don't do that." or "We don't like that." are good alternatives and accomplish the necessary goals. Think strategically.
As for your cuss word example, that was way out of line. A terrible strawman argument because that is essentially universally accepted as unacceptable, like hitting. Go ahead and impress that value the world over with "inappropriate" and every other word in your arsenal.
As for your agreeing with "just guess", indefensible.
just guess,
I live in a nice upper middle class neighborhood in Bellevue, Washington. Trailer park inbreds? Hardly respectful and not exactly model manners. You're not ISYN material. Please leave.
And if we do ever cross paths, understand, you say the word inappropriate in something as harmless as this and trust me, my voice is many times more powerful than your own. I've brought people to tears.
WTF?,
Well done my friend. We battle often, I behind too many monikers and we rarely agree, but you've done well this time.
tip of my nose,
That's a case where the alternatives "we don't like that" or "please don't do that" work wonderfully.
WTF?,
I'm sorry, I should clarify that with respect, by "well done" I didn't mean the swearing. With respect of course.
Although I do agree with what you're trying to communicate. Some are loosing sight of the ball, it's about the sentiment being communicated more than the words chosen.
A lot of awful things can be said without a single swear.
Jane,
Peace & Love is a wonderful message.
I would simply add Respect.
Peace, Love & Respect.
Hitting = Inappropriate
Gun play = Debatable
Because it is debatable, people should be willing to express their side, "I don't like that." "Please don't do that." "We don't like that."
Or even: "We don't do that." Borderline but in my opinion ok.
But at the same time, it is highly disrespectful towards the other parent to try to push your view on their child.
"That is inappropriate" is inappropriate and will always be inappropriate on values that are not universal.
Attempts to compare to swearing or hitting is nonsense too and lose sight of the ball, what's the goal?
The goal is to have the kid stop. "Please don't do that", "We don't like that" or "We don't do that" accomplishes the goal and is respectful of the other child's parents.
And what a wonderful thing that is!
* Again, just to emphasize - as I've said before, I'm not talking about the situation in this sighting.
I'm speaking about the pointing/noise alone, not the hitting. Hitting is universally accepted as inappropriate.
:)
** In a hypothetical situation. :)
It wasn't the pointing alone. It was the pointing, the making of the gunshot noise and telling another child he/she was DEAD.
I for the life of me don't understand how you are defending this. My boys love to wressle. We let them wrestle at home. They know very well they are never to attempt to wrestle anyone outside of our home.
Perhaps you should worry about teaching your own child how to behave in public, then you wouldn't have to be so freaked out by the fact that badly behaved children will get corrected in public by others IF there is no one else around to do it. Which is the point of this sighting, the nanny was NOT around.
Go take your meds.
Nope,
Respect = debatable
We don't do that could be seen by many as condescending and completely equivalent to "that's inappropriate". I can't believe you are still arguing this point. I don't believe the mother was specifically saying universal gunplay is inappropriate, but pointing a pretend gun at her daughters' head, cocking said pretend gun, making a firing sound and telling the little girl she was dead-I believe that is what she found inappropriate.
Move on.
I must have missed the announcement of "Nope" being made a board monitor here. Why does it think it has any right to order people to "please leave" because it disagrees with their opinions?
WTF?
I am sorry that you misunderstood my post, my hubby was trying to spank his son on the bottom, but he missed and ended up hitting his lower back. Children usually squirm when they are going to get spanked. I understand that you disagree with me, and I respect your opinion. I just don't want people to think that I found it humurous I was mirely making a statement about how children's behavior has become ridiculous to the point of no return.
Honestly my ss has only been spanked three times in his entire life. So that is hardly abuse, and there was no hand mark left except the time that he was slapped on the back on accident. But that subsided within 2 minutes.
I am happy to have this debate with many and I always love a good argument, it keeps us all honest.
sorry I missed the majority of this post.
It seemed a good case of the "hysteria" though,taking place today in our world.
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