Received Tuesday, December 30, 2008.
I have a problem that isn't really a problem, just something that I did or partook in that came out of nowhere and is completely not representative of my character.
Let me say that I am a good nanny. I won't say how many children or their ages, but I love them and they me. I am in my mid twenties and have about 40 lbs to lose. I work for a couple that is really great to me, to each other and to the children. The mother is a knockout and is very succesful at her job. She also manages to be a great mother even though she works a whole lot. The father is about 9 years older than the mother, he is average looking and looks like a Berkley professor.
I spend a lot of time with the father and the children when the mother isn't around. Don't worry, it isn't like we are playing house. He may be near us but he is usually on the phone. I am the one tending to the children so it is always clear that he is with his nanny. We get along fine. He has a sharp sense of humor and loves to discuss current events and politics, even religion. Not much is off limits.
The other day we were talking about a cooking show that feautured rare delicacies. He was suggesting that he would enjoy trying such things and I said it would never interest me. We started talking about Korean delicacies. Then he asked me if I had ever heard of a korean tongue massage. I said no, I had not. I hadn't. I wasn't sure if he was joking or not. He said it is a massage for really wealthy women where the woman lies on her stomach and the servant drinks from different cups of hot teas and iced beverages and kneads the woman's back with his tongue. No hands, just tongue. He then told me it wasn't at all sexual and went on in more detail. As it happened I was wearing a T back tank top so my shoulder blades were exposed. He looked at my shoulder and I knew what he was thinking. He walked over and began licking my shoulder. He didn't put a hand on me. There were no drinks or anything, he just started licking my shoulder blade. And then the other. I was shocked, embarassed and could not deny that it felt incredible. This lasted no more than four minutes, maybe 5. I don't know what would have happened, I don't think anything because of the timing. The housekeeper was due to arrive, we both knew it and indeed she did. I don't for one minute think he was trying to start anything or had even though about anything.
I think it was just a random and odd thing to have happened. That was this morning. I didn't see him for the rest of the afternoon and the next time I saw him, he was making a packing list with his wife in the kitchen. He greeted me just like he always does, friendly. And his wife immediately thanked me for something I had done for her that day. I went out for coffee tonight and came back in and I could see my female boss in the office and my male boss was in the den watching television. He immediately called out to me and told me about charges being filed on casey anthony's brother and asked me what I thought they were for. We had a five minute discussion about accessory after the fact and the possibilities. During the time, his wife went in the kitchen, retrieved something and returned to the office. All of this went on as usual.
I am beginning to think I dreamed the whole thing. Maybe I am naive but can people do something like that and just not think another thing of it? I have been replaying the incident in my head all day. It's not that I am attracted to him or like him more or like him less or even feel guilty. I just feel so strange. ???????????
81 comments:
No employee should come into your personal space. If you feel uncomfortable in any way- get out. Scary Scary. It may had just been a 1 time thing- but that is scary. TAKE IT FROM SOMEONE WHO TRUSTED AN EMPLOYER AND THEN WAS HURT BY THE SAME PERSON. don't let your employer do that or anything like that again- if he does and you feel uncomfortable- get out don't wait for something bad to happen.
LOL. I don't think OP was uncomfortable. She said it felt "incredible". I hope this incident doesn't open the door for something to possibly happen later, OP. This was wrong of the Dad to do, and quite frankly, as soon as his tongue touched your shoulder, you should have backed away... maybe a little smile and "I'm ticklish" would have kept the moment from feeling awkward, but this shouldn't have happened.
Wow I was even uncomfortable reading the licking part!! I think it's all kind of icky. If one of the Dad's in my program did that to me or one of the other teachers we would definitely freak out! But...if you're OK with it - and nothing more happened then I guess just let it go. Hopefully it doesn't open the door for other "closeness"
I was curious to see if this trend really existed, or if he was just a little kinky. Anyway, I googled korean tongue massage, and found nothing that indicated it was really a trend for the wealthy. Only ice cream for rich people, not where they were licked themselves in any way. So, I think he was inappropriate. Be much more careful with your boundaries in the future, if you want to stay at the job, and be content. Otherwise, you're in for a world of discomfort. Good luck.
um, yes. that was distasteful!
That is wildly, wildly inappropriate. I hate the trend of calling all OP's liars or questioning their sanity, but OP, seriously, 5 minutes is a pretty long time. I can understand being taken by suprise by the first one or two licks, but to stand there and allow your employer, and a married man, to, in essence, kiss and caress you for 5 minutes? Come on! You really didn't realize this was a seduction, and a completely queasy-making one at that?
If I was his wife and found out that my hubby did that to the nanny...uh...that would be a deal-breaker to me. I would not want to spend my life with a man who would do that to our nanny!! That is cheating in my rulebook.
So, I think he crossed the line and you should not let this happen again. Maybe even discuss with him by admitting that things may have got out of hand the other day, and that both of you should just keep things platonic from now on or you cannot stay.
Men can do stuff like that and act normal afterward, while us women cannot. I think he knows it was wrong, but it is easier for him to act like it was no big deal.
I feel sorry for his wife in the long run. If not you, she will eventually find out her husband is a pervert. I feel for the children.
Weirded Out Nanny... your comment about men vs women is a wild generalization that's really not true.
To the OP, that's just weird and inappropriate in a professional relationship. It may be that he felt comfortable sharing that random bit of weird trivia with you, because you're open about other topics and seem to have a friendly working relationship.
If you are otherwise comfortable with your situation, then do stay. It may be a good idea - and certainly appropriate - to mention to him (privately) that you were uncomfortable with the tongue thing. You don't have to make a huge dramatic deal about it, but clearing the air might be helpful for you in terms of reinforcing your boundaries. Then move on.
"Weirded Out Nanny... your comment about men vs women is a wild generalization that's really not true."
It might be a wide generalization, but I happen to think it's true more often than not.
Women are emotional creatures, while (most) men are physical.
They work off of their testosterone and women work off of their estrogen. You may not like to hear that, but that's the way that it is, so deal with it.
I'm a massage therapist and a regular at Korean spas in L.A's Korea Town. Ummm, does anyone really believe that massage therapists use their tongues on clients? In Europe and Asia, massage therapists are regarded as medical professionals, so I am honestly baffled that anyone would take this man seriously.
I won't argue that women tend to be more emotional than men, but what I was responding to was weirded out nanny's comment, "Men can do stuff like that and act normal afterward, while us women cannot."
The way people feel and the way they act are two different things and are individual to each person.
As someone who's been on this planet many years, I promise you this is true, regardless of gender.
Anwyay, whatever. This little conversation isn't at all helpful to the OP, so perhaps we should just let it rest. I apologize for even saying anything... it was just a quick reaction and wasn't intended to be offensive.
Mamma
Don't apologize for your comment. There was nothing wrong with it. I also agree that women can be more emotional, but there are just as many females out there capable of doing something like this, and not giving it another thought, as there are men.
It goes BOTH ways.
Sorry OP, I think I was a bit hard on you. You wrote in that you were really confused and I didn't stop to think that you were perhaps very young and niave or unaware of appropriate boundaries.
Unfortunately, I think this situation will probably escalate into another encounter unless you put the kibosh on it now, in no uncertain terms.
Not sure if I am right or wrong on this. But I agree with the posters. That he is trying to feel you out. What caught my attention was the part where you mentioned you have 40lbs to lose. And you work for a very attractive, successful woman. I think your feeling down.
Maybe, this is a self-esteem issue. He probably sees you like the attention he gives you. Even if its just talking about world events and cracking jokes with you.
Guys like this prey on women with low self-esteem. Don't be suprised like what others mentioned hes going to try and take it to the next level.
I have korean friends. and this is something her mother did to people, its perfectly normal to them.
A quick Google search shows that this is common in Korean "massage parlors", i.e., the ones that use massage as a cover up for prostitution. While I think it was wildly inappropriate, as he is neither Korean nor a prostitute, I did find some viable resources that state it is the norm there, including one massage therapy website.
Now, "Step away from the computer." I just did a google search using "korean tongue massage" in quotations, and the only site listed was this one!
But the nanny WAS NOT uncomfortable. So you advise her to lie to the employer and tell him she was?
Did he clean his tongue first?
In regards to "me's" comment, if you do the search sans quotes, you will find the pages I'm referencing. The quotations make the search too specific.
Some that I found:
http://www.pokermagazine.com/cgi-bin/news/gforum.cgi?do=post_view_threaded;post=139900
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1926299&displaytype=printable&lastnode_id=0
http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=10438
I believe that this could be a Korean thing... even if it is not available on google. It may be a strange thing but I do think it exists.
I saw this one program a long time ago, that this woman would get things out of people's eye with her tongue. And she charged money for it. So lets say that you have a grain of sand in your eye you can't seem to get out. You go this lady's house and she wipes out her tongue says open you eye wide and she takes her tongue slimes it around your eye and extracts the peice of sand! I about threw up all over.... but it happened.
Since other cultures find something acceptable that is ok. Americans have different boundaries and we would find this type of interaction uncomfortable. He should have known that. But talk to him and let him know that it did make you uncomfortable and that if you wanted a Korean tongue massage you will seek out a professional. That just seems wierd even me typing it.
RE-POST FOR ANONYMOUS:
Anonymous said...
He's feeling you out, I think, wondering what he can get away with regarding you. This is creepy and weird and not right. This is your job -- if it were in an office environment, it would be just as wrong. Just bec. it happens at his home and you are casual with each other, still doesn't make it right. May be time for you to vamanos!
2:18 PM
RE-POST FOR ANONYMOUS
I cannot fathom how this is at all desirable. When I think Berkeley professor, I think bespectacled, grey, bearded man. I shudder to imagine him with his tongue anywhere near me.
Please,step away from the computer
Thank you for those Links! Now..... where are my damn cigarettes!
OP, this man is for sure a predator. Regardless of whether this is common in Korea, he is testing to see what your boundaries are.
There's a reason he didn't hire a super assertive and confident feminist. He thinks he can manipulate you into sexual acts. Look how much he already has you doubting yourself. I think in pretty short order, you will find yourself in more and more sexual situations.
I hope you are able to navigate your way through this. This just seems like the perfect storm to me.
Hi Step-Away,
I clicked on the site http://www.massagetoday.com/mpacms/mt/article.php?id=10438 because Massage Today is a pretty legitimate magazine. If you read the article, it was about pulse and tongue diagnosis used by Korean acupuncturists and bodyworkers.
Even if this is something normal in Korea, we live in America and something like this is taken in a different manner than it is there. I stand by my original statement that what he did to you was crossing the line.
I apologize for my previous comment and I hope it didn't offend anyone on here. Re: that men can act a certain way as opposed to women. It's just in my experience in life (40 + yrs), I have seen how men can be more emotionally detached than women when it comes to inappropriate things such as this. But I CERTAINLY did not mean to categorize anyone, because in all generalizations, there are always exceptions to the rule.
Anyhow, OP I think you still should speak to the husband, this needs to be "nipped in the bud" before it gets out of hand and leads to other things that will hurt everyone, including the children.
Weirded out Nanny
It's all good. I appreciate some of the HONEST comments you've made.
There's always going to be somebody that's going to take something the wrong way or be offended on here. It's really hard to please everyone. The most important thing is that you have an opinion!
I don't know if you're new or old, but welcome aboard, I hope you stick around for awhile.
I think he is "grooming" you for more intense activity. He is seeing what he can get away with and how much you will fall for some strange story. Be aware and be careful.
did he mean to say it happens in brothels?
Wow!
I cannot begin to tell you how grossed out I was reading this story. Think about it...your employer putting his tongue on you. Yuck! That is inappropriate on so many levels.
The scariest part for me about this whole story is that OP said:
'I don't know what would have happened, I don't think anything because of the timing.'
This statement leaves all the power in the hands of this man. He can feel your vulnerability.
So, if the housekeeper were not due at that moment, you may have allowed him to do whatever he wanted?
I have to agree with many of the posters who think this may be grooming, and if you're not careful, you may find yourself doing things you ought not be doing.
You are going to have to give yourself a pep talk. The more you tell yourself you will not allow any inappropriateness, no matter how benign, the stronger you will fell about your resolve.
Right now this man has the power and he knows. He knows exactly what he is doing.
Therefore,
Be afraid, be very afraid on that job.
Hmm, I'm not sure why I can't use my regular moniker 'EM'
I am yet to figure this out, the the 'M' moniker is actually 'EM'. Every time you get used to something it changes...ugh!
Shouldn't there be a frequently asked page somewhere? lol.
I guess I'll figure it out eventually
Oh, I finally saw the tab to write my moniker, but I noticed something...blogs now have to be approved?
I remember some sites like that, I have stayed away from them.
If I have to censor what I say, or worse write something that does not get 'approval' then I would have wasted my time writing? hmm, interesting.
So how does this work, when does this 'approval' take place.
I don't like this one bit, but it's not my site, so...
Here's a thought, this might not get 'approved'
If it doesn't, this will truly be a 'nanny' site, pun intended.
I have to say though, that if it does not get posted, I will not post here again (at least, not to the general public), because I really do believe in freedom of speech, and apparently I'm the only one who has a problem with this?
Well, I still haven't seen my first 2 comments posted yet, so we shall see
I Hate Junk Mail....that is true, you cannot please every one and it's nice to get solid opinions on here whether or not we agree with them or not. That is what makes this website so interesting, all the different angles we look at stuff on here.
To all you nannies and families...Happy 2009!! Can't wait to hear all the new stories that are coming our way!
Em,
I was on your side until you went batshit crazy over the temporary approval process. It has nothing to do with you, but rather a spam attack that occurred in the dead of the night. From time to time, we have to turn comment moderation on to get the spammers to go away.
Weirded Out Nanny, I don't hink your comments were offensive.
I think the comment section is a place for everyone to voice their different opinions.
Batshit, lol, Jane
I know a lot of people here want me gone, so I thought they had gotten you to change the format.
Like I said, I don't post on sites where people are censored, because what's the point really.
How can one blame me for jumping to this particular conclusion.
Anyway, my apologies of course, and thanks for working through the night to fix the problem.
...and thanks for posting my last comment.
Glad to know we are back to normal, and Em can be 'in the house!'
Now excuse me why I remove my gigantic foot from my mouth.
That's bullshit, Em. Not everyone wants you gone. You're an asshole, and some people people like that!
Make that ONE people, my computer hiccupped! I should cut her off... she's had one too many.
Park slope girl.
What's your point?
Me: a 'lot' of people here want me gone.
You: Not 'everyone' wants you gone.
I could go in many directions with this, but I'll just say that it might be wise to mind your business.
Haha! See what I mean? You're an asshole. I was just cracking a joke.
Why so serious?
Why don't you put on a looser pair of panties, Em.
Well park slope I can take a joke, but it's hard when a word such as ***hole is in it.
I laughed at Jane's 'batshit' because frankly, It's a word I'm not familiar with, but it seemed to be used to quantify how 'crazy' my post was.
The word you used I have heard it before, and quite frankly as forceful as I can be, there are some words I simply cannot use.
I know I'm not an ***.
I know I'm pretty smart and very intelligent, so when you use a name to describe me, please make sure it fits.
When I call someone a name, it always fits even if it stings, and it's never a curse word.
Say what you wish about me, but the one thing I will never tolerate is disrespect.
People who try to disrespect me usually gets an apt response from me.
get
Fair enough, Em.
You're ok in my book parkslope!
Happy New Year!
Well Em, despite your delusions, you ARE not only an asshole, but a batshit crazy paranoid, ignorant one. But you get to have your say here in spite of all that, so party on.
calimom
please tell us how your last comment was in anyway beneficial to this site or why you had to once again start in on a poster you dislike? You have done this to several posters in the past.
There was no mention of you to you or aimed at you anywhere between PS & EM.
You do this ALL the time and everyone acts like they dont see it.It just starts crap or ads to the fire.You just can't help yourself,can you?
I am glad you are a beauty on the outside. Hold onto that
cause you are really ugly on the inside,no matter how many posters you have fooled on this site.
You claim to be a lot of things a good mom
a looker
smarter than most of us
and superior to those who disagree with your child rearing ways
but all I see when you open your mouth like you did above and like you always
do is just a BITCH.
Happy New Year!
Olive Oyle
You must be blind as a bat. Em is the purported "know-it-all". She has said on quite a few threads that she knew a lot about that subject, or it was her area of expertise, or whatever the hell it was in each post. I don't see anywhere where Calimom has said she was "smart and intelligent", or anything else to toot her own horn. I guess if Em doesn't compliment herself, no one will, so I guess I understand why she does it.
Why can't Calimom write what she feels. Because she states her opinion(s) shes a Bitch???
Ericsmom
ericsmom so does that JUST apply to you N calimom cause all I did was give my opinion too! HHMMM???
you should learn the difference between an opinion and a down right just for the hell of it name calling shit stirrin fest? Ya think?
Love to sell ya some land since it appears your buyin!
even though ya like er' lets call a duck a duck ladies QUACK QUACK QUACK
GMAB that goes for you too! Quack!
Actually, I am selling some land. If anyone is interested. In upstate NY. Beautiful area great schools.
Thanks for the support ladies.
Oily, actually, what you might be trying to remember correctly is that I said that someone had posted in jest, *saying* that I was a knockout and a good dresser. I've never claimed to be gorgeous, but you sound pretty insecure. And a bit familiar. Nuff said.
I want to thank the OP for the mental image of a beardy rumpled Berkeley professor slobbering on her shoulder blade. Slurp.
There are a lot of crazy bitches on this site. They make things interesting, so live and let live.
This is a weird frigging story. Dude is trying to get the nanny into bed for sure. Whether she thinks so or not.
Profs are hot, btw. Just not this one.
You know, I wasn't sure if OP meant a Berkeley prof like Berkeley CA, or Berkley (sp?) which I think is an upscale area in NY? OP, which one did you mean? I pictured the prof as being like an Ivy League type, not an old hippy, lol! either way yes, the toungue contact WAS extremely distasteful, totally innapropriate, and unnacceptable. Yuck!
There is no upscale area in NY called Berkley.
In that case, people need to learn to properly spell Berkeley as in Berkeley, CA. I have seen a place referred to and spelled as OP spelled it, so maybe someone else knows where it is.
Berkley Mass?
lol lucy
Here is an idea for your new years resolution:
Stop pointing out what everyone else needs to do to improve("in that case people need to learn to properly spell") and try being less snarky all the damn time.
Why not just admit you made a small faux pas in the geography lesson you were giving us instead of blaming someone else for a spelling error? Or simply admit you don't know what you are talking about? Not a big deal!We all have plenty to learn from each other on this site.
You are always so damn quick to point out everyone elses' screw-ups,it really sucks!
Very predictable. Nuff Said???!!!
BTW...Berkley,Michigan is just one of many Berkley's in the country spelled with one less E than Berkeley,Ca. Which really does not matter either becasue it seems you were the only one wanting to play dictionary queen as it benefitted your needs and allowed you to shift blame of a very trivial thing in the first place..Nuff said???Nuff said?? Nuff said???So Petty!
BTW,Happy New Year!
"Ems my hero"..(give me a friggin' break!)
You are so obnoxious! I love how you come on here, changing monikers at will, just so you can join all of the slamfests.
I hate rude people... BITE ME..BTW Pot meet kettle..you change your moniker just as much as the rest of us!! See..you just did!
The whole lot are you are acting like crazy people. Why don't you just let this thread die and move on to something current? Honestly, I feel as if I'm listening to a gaggle of pubescent girls. And before anyone says the same of me moving on, I wouldn't even know this thread was being commented on were it not being mailed straight to my inbox.
hey step away..call up Mickey and MYOB!! If you have a blog sent directly to your inbox..you need to get a life!
I do not have a blog sent directly to my inbox. Seems that since I once commented on this entry, all replies are sent to my inbox for this entry only. However, I just noticed a link to unsubscribe, thank the heavens. Squabble amongst yourselves now that my inbox will be spared.
Wait step away....let me get my boots on cause its gettin mighty deep in here!Ciao bella
WRONG! I have the same moniker ALL the time. I only changed it for today because you're an a-hole and I don't wanna be STALKED by you..like you do Calimom!
Very cool, step away from your computer, how do you get isyn mailed to your box?
Seems like a great opportunity to remind people how to support our blog.
Sure, you could click on the paypal logo and buy Jane a cup of coffee, a potted plant or a Dell XPS M1730. Maybe that's not your thing, so here are some others:
-Comment on the posts.
-Favorite us on technorati.
-Comment on the posts.
-Check the box that says "email follow up comments" when you do comment.
-Twitter us
-Comment on the posts. (Really, as often as you'd like)
-Share the link to this blog with everyone you know
-If you are familiar with a location or city referenced in a post, include a link to an image in your comment.
Damn, that Dell XPS sure is a sweet ride! Beautiful.
I hate rude people.....oh right,I stalk calimom!! You are out of your mind.You need to be VERY careful when making false accusations too!
First off..you don't know me or when I post.You don't know who I am and you most certainly are not paying attention if you think I am "stalking" anyone on this board.
CM fights and argues with no less than 1 or 2 posters a week and she is always the first to call names and point out peoples mistakes.How very naive of you to assume she has only one enemy on this board.
Second Calimom does her fair share of stalking to anyone who happens to disagree with her and it has become quite clear that she has made several foes in the last few months because she is just down right nasty...so pls..tell me who I am..??Come on.I am calling you out. Tell me who I am please!!
here,let me help,could I be..
BLB,EM,Terra Bite,Old fashioned nanny,Emily,"H",A Sad Woman,Not an advocate,More than 2 cents(fondly referred to as pennies by CM),sick of haters,or one of the many others she has contunually ridden,called names and argued with in the last 3 months??????? There are many legit choices.That was just 10 or 11 that I myself know of.
Oh but wait,we must ALL be the same poster right?? We are all the same person sitting at home making up new monikers and "making up crazy shit" did I get your quote right? Yeah,pretty sure I did.
You are truly delusional if you do not aknowledge that CM loves to agitate and start things on this thread. But for some reason when anyone gives it back to her,her fan club pipes up.
Open your eyes and shut your mouth,maybe you will learn something!
Stop trying to monitor the board, you cannot control everything.
Some here are not avid cm fans as you are and telling her how we feel does not constitute stalking.You might want to invest in a dictionary,you could use a little brush up on the meaning of a few words!
Hmmmm. Now, why would you say a sad woman? I don't think Calimom has ever had it out with you, Ummm, I mean HER.
BTW, speaking of dictionaries, check YOUR spelling. You can't even get my moniker right. It's IHRP!!!
sure she has and I believe she referred to her as "sad thing" Bite Me
You are so far off!!
...and yet ANOTHER moniker! Good for you! You are so freakin' creative.
Wow. A "Korean" tongue massage? I had one in the village back in the late nineties and it was called a Vietnamese Tongue Massage. Tea was used. Hot teas.
I also have a friend who tells of a tongue massage where by the massuese, in this case, her rapper boyfriend, dips his tongue in water and then in a bowl of sugar and rolls the sugar back and forth across your back. It is supposed to be out of this world. And pretty specific to the gangster rap community. It's like a South Bronx delicacy.
Meanwhile, the white boys are doing all this crazy stuff and having their tongues split. Have you seen this crazy stuff? I don't know why they do it. Maybe to convince themselves they are bad asses, but it's pretty freaking ridiculous.
Just the same I thought I would share that tongues definitely do have a place in massage.
OH, THIS IS ALL SO COMICAL oops.
Sorry about that.
This is quite comical, and guess what folks I love 'Em's my new Hero!' lol.
It's about time somebody else shook things up around here.
Who cares who wants to use different monikers, seriously, the things that bother you people amazes me.
Let it be known from henceforth that anybody can use any moniker they like, and they can change it daily.
Got that people?? I hope so, because no one cares about this lame non problem
It's hardly something to fuss about people.
Ihj blah blah blah, who checks their dictionary for the spelling of some unknown acronym? What is this? dumb and dumber?
Ems my hero could not be more accurate.
So...she has a fan club does she? lol. They should be fanned out of here for their less than stellar contributions. I mean seriously, have you ever read one of their posts?
I personally would suggest that if you don't have something coherent to say then you should perhaps leave the writing to others.
By the way, this is not about misspellings as some of you are intent on pointing out.
As for the person who wants this thread to die, why don't you just stop reading it, or better yet, just stop posting, you are helping to keep it open, which by the way is ok with most of us. Goodness me people, you don't have to post on any thread you don't like.
Don't blame us for threads getting in your inbox, delete it for crying out loud, or just don't read it.
You're ok in my book parkslope!
Happy New Year!
Thanks, Em. Back at ya!
OK, skipping ahead (sorry Em, put a band-aid on your ego)...
Did OP ever clarify whether she meant Ivy League Berkley Mass or Hippy-league Berkeley CA? Seeing as how the professor's appearance was mentioned in the original post, it's relevant.
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