I was just walking by 85th and York on the UES. A big (6 feet 250 pounds) Jamaican (heavy accent) looking woman with her small child was walking 2 girls, about 9 or 10 years old, either to or from school. Well, the young boy (about 5 or 6) saw a group of pigeon, run and started kicking them! I told him in loud voice (not screaming on purpose) not to do that. Well the big woman turned around in anger stating "He's just playing" "Don't tell my son what to do". I replied "kicking animals is not playing but it is cruel behavior". She ran towards the birds herself, leaving behind the boy and the 2 girls under her care, the children looked scared by now. I yelled "Are you going to kick the birds too?" She stopped and just made hand movements and noises to scare the birds. I told her "You should not be teaching hate to the children", "People with morals do not condone that kind of behavior in a child" "Ugly and hateful people abuse a small animal that has done nothing to them". She got even more pissed off, with flames coming out of her eyes. She walked fast ahead of me cursing under her breath. Then she crossed the street, towards East End Ave, talking to the kids and looking back and pointing at me. Some people might not think it is a big deal for a young child to kick a distracted pigeon (which indicates the child is already full of rage and hate and lacks respect for animals), but I would never let an angry, abusive person like this woman look over my children.
Tuesday
85th and York on the UES - NY
Received Tuesday, September 30, 2008.
I was just walking by 85th and York on the UES. A big (6 feet 250 pounds) Jamaican (heavy accent) looking woman with her small child was walking 2 girls, about 9 or 10 years old, either to or from school. Well, the young boy (about 5 or 6) saw a group of pigeon, run and started kicking them! I told him in loud voice (not screaming on purpose) not to do that. Well the big woman turned around in anger stating "He's just playing" "Don't tell my son what to do". I replied "kicking animals is not playing but it is cruel behavior". She ran towards the birds herself, leaving behind the boy and the 2 girls under her care, the children looked scared by now. I yelled "Are you going to kick the birds too?" She stopped and just made hand movements and noises to scare the birds. I told her "You should not be teaching hate to the children", "People with morals do not condone that kind of behavior in a child" "Ugly and hateful people abuse a small animal that has done nothing to them". She got even more pissed off, with flames coming out of her eyes. She walked fast ahead of me cursing under her breath. Then she crossed the street, towards East End Ave, talking to the kids and looking back and pointing at me. Some people might not think it is a big deal for a young child to kick a distracted pigeon (which indicates the child is already full of rage and hate and lacks respect for animals), but I would never let an angry, abusive person like this woman look over my children.
I was just walking by 85th and York on the UES. A big (6 feet 250 pounds) Jamaican (heavy accent) looking woman with her small child was walking 2 girls, about 9 or 10 years old, either to or from school. Well, the young boy (about 5 or 6) saw a group of pigeon, run and started kicking them! I told him in loud voice (not screaming on purpose) not to do that. Well the big woman turned around in anger stating "He's just playing" "Don't tell my son what to do". I replied "kicking animals is not playing but it is cruel behavior". She ran towards the birds herself, leaving behind the boy and the 2 girls under her care, the children looked scared by now. I yelled "Are you going to kick the birds too?" She stopped and just made hand movements and noises to scare the birds. I told her "You should not be teaching hate to the children", "People with morals do not condone that kind of behavior in a child" "Ugly and hateful people abuse a small animal that has done nothing to them". She got even more pissed off, with flames coming out of her eyes. She walked fast ahead of me cursing under her breath. Then she crossed the street, towards East End Ave, talking to the kids and looking back and pointing at me. Some people might not think it is a big deal for a young child to kick a distracted pigeon (which indicates the child is already full of rage and hate and lacks respect for animals), but I would never let an angry, abusive person like this woman look over my children.
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66 comments:
dumbest post ever.
Oh my... Clearly you never had boys. They are not "full of rage" for kicking at pigeons. Did he step on the neck of one and hold it down while plucking its feathers? That would show a level of hate.
While I do not condone animal abuse, I would have reacted the same way this Nanny did. Do you have have children- specifically boys? If so, you should know that this is normal behavior.
The children were probably scared of the crazy lady yelling at them on the street, not their nanny making gestures and trying to shoo the birds off.
Lighten up.
ALSO, this woman told you not to yell at her SON. You have provided absolutely no information on the children. How do you know it was a nanny?
I don't know how many times I've had to step in and tell other peoples kids not to hit/kick/throw rocks at, geese/pigeons/dogs.
And for everyone who is saying this is how boys are- it very well IS NOT if you teach them right. My brother would have never dreamed of this. As a matter of fact, when we were little he got beat up trying to make kids stop abusing animals.
This isn't a "boys will be boys" situation. This is a, get up and be a damn parent and take some damn responsibility situation.
Good job OP!
Normal boys may not intentionally abuse animals, and I do agree that kicking a small animal is for sure a sign of aggression and possible future mental problems, however, children do enjoy running AT and kicking IN THE DIRECTION OF birds, in order to cause them to fly in a frenzy around. I have seen this in almost every small child I have ever been involved with. It's not abuse, it's not cruel. It's a game that children play.
Unless these are some sort of nonchalant, Prozac-using pigeons, I hardly find it possible that this child could have made any sort of physical contact with the pigeon. More likely, he was kicking in the direction of the pigeons, and the poster misunderstood the actions of the child. Now, if he had been holding one down, slitting it's throat or breaking a wing, that would be abuse. Birds don't tolerate things like this. They FLY AWAY.
Lighten up people. The only person who can intervene in this is CPS, and I doubt they would bat an eyelash. There are worse things happening in the world.
If an adult saw one of my children engaging in dangerous behavior I would hope he or she would say something to me, but it's inappropriate for you to admonish someone else's child. I've seen kids run after birds hundreds of times but i don't think I've ever seen any catch one.
I don't understand how you can "not scream on purpose." Perhaps you need to learn some self control. I'm sure those children were scared because some crazy lady was yelling at them.
I must be getting old, because back in my time, it was next to impossible to get close to a pigeon, except for my friend Hugo from third grade, who liked to boast that he could catch them in his bare hands...anyway. I do not approve of violence towards small animals, but neither screaming (not on purpose) at small children and bad-mouthing them is not exactly big in my book.
I am sorry OP but I have to tell you that you seem awfully unfamiliar with common childhood behavior. Children chase birds all the time. They know if they get close enough the birds will fly and this intrigues them.
Unless you ran into a flock of "ill" birds I do not believe for one second that the little boy actually made contact.
Had you said something to the effect"the boy actually clipped ONE bird or kicked A bird..A bird" I might have fallen for it But started "kicking THEM"?? I don't think so.
I know some birds in populated areas do let people get close but never in 20 years have I seen ANYONE,adult or child actually make contact.And I have seen plenty of people at plenty of parks chase birds.
I think the lady had every right to put you in your place. You were over reacting and way out of line!
This child was not showing signs of aggression, he was showing signs of a happy ,carefree child.
Well, to play devil's advocate for a minute... I have two boys. We spent an extended time in London when they were young. Their all time favorite daily activity was to visit Trafalgar square on the way back to our hotel in the evenings and play with the pidgeons. We got them little cups of food from vendors and the kids did enjoy running about and seeing the birds scatter. But mostly they liked trying to coax them near with food so they could "pet" them. And nobody ever once tried to kick one. If they had kicked the birds, or looked like they were trying to kick the birds, I would not have felt that was normal appropriate boy behavior and that boy would have been holding my hand for the rest of that day's visit and watching his brother and sister enjoy the birds without him. Curelty to animals is never OK.
I guess we have to take OPs word for it that the boy was behaving in a mean way and not a playing way with the birds.
OP sounds insane. You clearly stated that this woman was with her SON. Why would you assume she's a nanny. Not all Jamaican women in NY are nannies. sheesh.
This mother probably wouldn't have gone on the defensive like she did if you didn't start preaching your self righteous babble about morals. While I agree that it IS wrong to kick an animal and can POSSIBLY be indicative of violent behavior later in life, there was definitely a better way for you to handle it.
Flame were coming out of her eyes? Lady, relax.
I completely disagree with the poster who said this is normal boy behavior! That is crazy! Kicking animals is not normal boy behavior, and I would have been upset as well if I saw that. The mom or nanny or whoever she was sounds unstable so it's no wonder her son or charge would be acting like this. I'm glad the poster said something to her.
I think the poster probably meant that the young boy was her son and that the older girls were her charges. Some nannies do take their children to work with them. As to what OP saw I have to agree that the little boy was probably just chasing the birds and not harming them, but maybe he was trying to stomp on them and it disturbed OP. I don't think it was right to say anything if he didn't actually hurt a bird.
This is a weird post. Weird story and very weird way of reporting it. Yes - the flames out the eyes, way melodramatic. I certainly don't condone any kind of bird kickery, and I DO think its modification-worthy behaviour but OP was out of line. Its sounds like you really p*ssed that lady off and I don't blame her, what with your high horse and preachiness: 'hateful! immoral!' - was thgat really necessary? OP sounds like a haughty busybody.
Hey Lindalou, where are you - we need you to give someone a good tellin' off! Come back!!!!!!!!!!!!
Kathleencares: Yes, kicking animals isn't right or normal behavior for children or anyone. But come on guys, have you spend time around kids and pigeons? The kids run at them, kicking their legs as they do, and the birds fly away. You'd have to be pretty quick (much quicker than a 5-year-old having fun) to actually make contact with swift city pigeons.
This, to me, sounds like the meeting of two very confrontational people--neither really in the right. The OP had no reason to speak to the child, he wasn't in danger and it was nearly impossible that he'd be able to hurt a bird. The nanny/mom should have tempered her response to the stranger. She could have said, "Please don't address my child. I condone his behavior." (Ok, I know, no one talks like that, but you get my idea.)
Hey anonymous, aren't you leaving out JAMAICAN, with FIRE in her eyes????
Give me a freaking break.
By the way anonymous, she also said she was the child's MOM, not nanny, did you not read THAT part?
Anonymous said...
victoria anne and emsquared, you are two ignorant,sadistic people.
Normal and well adjusted boys do not go around abusing animals. Future sociopaths display that kind of behavior. Just wait untill your boys grow up and become out of control teen-agers, they will kick you!
4:23 PM
RE-POST FOR YET ANOTHER ANONYMOUS POSTER!
Anonymous said...
Some posters need to READ more carefully what OP said before jumping for the throat and insulting the person.
Many seem to miss the point: a really angry 6 feet 250 pounds woman running to kick pigeons should not be charge of children. Do you people agree with HER behavior?
Isn't this I SAW YOUR NANNY?
Mom, as usually is right, as well as kathleen who really cares. Running to make pigeons fly is part of being a child, KICKING them is not, got it?
5:55 PM
RE-POST FOR ANONYMOUS!!!!!
Paper bag princess,
"bird kickery"?
That made me laugh.
well. I live in a city with a lot of pigeons. They are disgusting. They're gross. They are flying rats. However: if my child ever kicked one there would be hell to pay. That is not normal to hurt animals. But I also know that pigeons are pretty quick when kids are running at them. I find it hard to believe that the child could have kicked the pigeon. But I wasn't there, so I give OP the benefit of the doubt.
Additionaly, if I may put my own two cents in to OP:
OP, you should really be careful who you talk to in NYC and how you talk to them. That is just a fact of life. I mean, come now: are you fond of getting your ass kicked? My goodness. I realize you were angry and I would have been too: I can't stand to see kids be cruel to animals. But if I had been you, I would not have said a damn thing.
Yeah paperbag..that made me laugh too..I love some of the quirky phrases on this site! I always find myself repeating them to my girlfriends who laugh their butts off!! They are going to love this one!!
concerned mother,
your post sounds scary and hate filled.
I have a bad feeling about you.
OP mind your own business and lighten up. Chasing pigeons is not a hate crime.
Wow concerned mother, just wow..
kicking a pigeon vs. chasing a pigeon= two different actions. one is wrong, the other normal for a child.
I think someone misunderstood my post. And many others.
NORMAL boy behavior would be chasing the birds to make them fly. Like I, and several others, have stated. FUTURE SOCIOPATH/ MENTAL ILLNESS warning behavior, which many, including myself, stated, is the intentional harm. I don't believe the child could have actually made contact. Maybe Chuck Norris or Jackie Chan, but not a kindergardner.
I agree, umass, people should watch who they yell at. That woman could have had a gun, been mentally ill, or, given her height and weight description, kicked the bejeezus out of the OP. Of course, then we would have seen the story on the news, not on this blog. ;)
Chuck Norris could for sure.
Concerned mother, you sound like the definition of a troll. And internet stalking? Grow up.
checklist for nanny
-rotund
-huge
-angry
check check check
Way to go employer of this nanny monster.
For me, the point would not be whether my child could make contact with the pidgeon or not...it would be that he wanted to.
I wouldn't be concerned for the pidgeon, per se...but I would be very concerned for the mental well being of my child...so he would be taught immediately on the spot that we do not harm any living thing. And, although a pidgeon may be able to get away in time...a puppy, kitten, hamster, or other creature may not.
As for OP...I also shy away from correcting people's kids. The times I have felt it necessary, I have used a very friendly, sing songey voice to say something mild. Like, for instance, in this situation I might have said to him, "Oh sweetie, you don't want to hurt that nice birdie. Look, he wants to be your friend." That way the mom/nanny is alerted in a nonconfrontational way...and maybe you have gotten just a hint of a message through to the child that animals have feelings. If the other parent/nanny thinks you are working together instead of at odds, she will be more likely to respond the way you want her to.
Before the hate mail starts...the reason I wouldn't be concerned for the pidgeon is that I think it could probably get away in time...not because I don't care about the pidgeon.
I am sorry but there is a MAJOR difference between chasing birds (annoying but normal) and KICKING them (totally not ok!)
I agree there is no way that a small child could actually manage to KICK a bird, but kicking AT them would be considered tormenting them, and I'd teach my kids NOT to do it. I'd be annoyed at seeing someone else's kid do it but I think Mom's approach would be much more sensible and effective than OP's.
But I have to ask Mom, do bugs count as "living things" and what do you do to flies in your kitchen or an ant trail developing? We do make exceptions for pests in our household, and he does understand that many people EAT animals, which unfortunatly means the animals have to be killed. As I overheard him once explaining to a friend at school "animals are made out of steak".
These birds are being fed by humans everyday and they start to not fear these people. I am sure they do ot expect some kid to come up and kick them.They are just little birds wanting food,I don't care if the are flying rats or hnot, they still bleed and feel pain when some moron hurts them and if adults think this is ok then I wonder about the adults! Kids most certainly can kick a bird that has been hand fed most of their lives by humans.I am not fond of pidgeons BUT THEY are breathing little animals that have a right to live without being hurt by people
I personally draw no distiction between running at them and kicking at them. If it's ok for the little guy to run at them to make them fly (which it is) why not expect him to get REALLY animated and make kicking motions to see if they fly harder or higher? Maybe make some louder startled garbles? I no more believe the child had any intentions of kicking the birds than a child would have intentions of running OVER the birds while running at them. Malicious intent violent behavior is rare in young children, and would not be manifested in public.
On a funny note I still like to discreetly dash at pigeons now and then so I love it when I'm with kids that give me an excuse to do so! Haha.
Yeah, hubby and I were in NYC this summer and watched a little girl pick up a pigeon, they must be pretty slow, I guess.
This is a sad post :( I love animals.
And this nanny is not a good role model, oy!
If the OP had approached the situation in a way that didn't come across as so self-righteous and annoying, telling the boy not to kick the pigeon would have been ok, and probably would have went over better. I.e., if she approached it like mom suggested - in a nice and non-judgey way. Otherwise, who doesn't get steamed when a total stranger admonishes her kids? My impression of the OP isn't very good. She comes across like a prissy ol' dowager.
hee hee, moniker and mom, I think my fave ISYN nanny expression is still ass clown.
I am happy that the OP stood up for the animals. Finally someone can do that! I would have done the same thing. If it had been an adult hurting them I wouldv'e kicked them as hard as I could to show them what they are doing to the animals. Birds or not.
I don't beleive in animal abuse of any kind, even running after the bird and scaring them is a form of abuse because it stesses them out.
I once caught my stepson oustide trying to chase down a lizard and when he finally got to him I bent over and went Ahhhh how cute! and then he stomped on him and killed him. I was nearly in tears and I had to calmly explain that people don't hurt animals because they trust us and they love us and they have feelings too. I then had to have a mock funeral for the lizard because my step-son felt bad for it.
If parents would just teach their children that animals hurt, every different kind maybe they wouldn't act out their agression on them. Animals can't fight back and I am glad OP stood up for them. The boy may have just never been told that was the wrong thing to do
okay why do people post MOTHERS on this sight? who do you expect to read this and see, "oh there I am!"isn't this a NANNY sighting site. Clearly, this lady said "SON" and not "CHARGE". And there really isn't a way to prove if the girls were hers or not. Judging by her ethnicity is wrong.
I think that it is ridiculous to say that this lady was abusive in any way. That is a big thing to accuse someone of. and I think its really rude that you screamed at them and her. You can't catch the birds, so clearly you're exagerating.
jason castro,
the mother in question was a nanny. I think OP's hope was that the parents of the children she is nannying for will read this.
I agree OP should have been more tactful in her approach, and I don't know that I would call this woman "abusive" persay. But you should have more respect for the posters who write in, in my opinion. Furthermore, OP did not seem to be "judging" her by her ethnicity. She merely described her and her accent.
Yeah. What Umass said! :)
mothers should be outed too, but op should have said "bad mother sighted at...." or maybe you could have a mom icon for those nasty bitchy ues moms I see everywhere.
i think that this woman was a nanny and she just called the child her son. thats how they do those jamaicans.
Bitsy
I was actually going to say the same thing. I've heard the Jamaican nannies refer to their charges as sons & daughters.
Any Jamaican nannies care to comment about that?
"dcmetnanny said...
Malicious intent violent behavior is rare in young children, and would not be manifested in public."
You never saw my friend's son. malicious and viloent every minute of the day...in public and at home. It was a truly scary thing to witness. Although I do admit it is rare.
calimom,
I know what you mean about the bugs. Fortunately we have almost no bugs, except spiders and the occasional ant or mosquito in the house. This is especially lucky since I do not allow pesticide use in or around my home unless we have a real situation...which luckily has happened only a couple of times too. Why can't it be easier to exlain tings to our kids? Why are there so many exceptions and loopholes? My daughter recently announced that she wanted to be a a vegetarian. Knowing how difficult it is to get proper nutrition as a vegetarian (and before a bunch of people write to tell me how it can be done, I ought to point out that she's just not that dilligent or detail oriented...so trust me, she would suffer nutritionally), but not wanting to squelch her humanitarian efforts, I said to her, "OK, but why don't you just eat chicken, because they're not real animals." of course, we both knew that was ridiculous, and after she glared at me in complete shock and we had a good laugh, she agreed to eat chicken. WE compromized on her not eating anything fuzzy with a cute face. My son says that if God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of steak. Good point. Sounds like your son is headed in that direction also? hehehe
Mom
Looking for ways to become healthier, I became a Vegetarian several years ago.... and I quickly learned 2 things: 1. it ain't cheap to be one and 2. it's really difficult coming up with new and tasty recipes.
However, I've never felt better, and nowadays it's much easier to shop for the right foods than it was then.
I also went to my Dr. first and told her what I had planned to do and she gave me supplemental vitamins.
I've only recently began to slip and I can feel the effects of it. But if your daughter is really serious about it.... encourage her to research the internet for ideas and a really fantastic book for her would be, "A Teen's Guide to going Vegetarian" by Judy Krizmanic. Your local Library should carry it if she wants to check it out before buying.
Umass-I do have respect for most the people who write in, but was it really her place to scream at the childre? she could have handled it better. Which in turn, I didn't really have much respect for this poster, she seemed rude. and I thought we weren't sure she's a nanny or a mommy. I apologize for getting it wrong. All I was saying that isn't this site made for mothers to check if their nanny is spotted and treating their child badly? What is the point of posting about bad mothers? Who is coming on this site to check that? I just don't see the overall point of reporting moms. I know this girl was a nanny now that you've corrected me on this. But I was not sure before. Thank you.
MPP,
Thankfully, for now the moment has passed.
She is 14 and at that age where she is trying to find her own identity and trying on a lot of different personnas. (Thankfully, they are mostly mom-friendly personnas. We did go through the dark lines drawn around the eyes stage....which was a constant struggle, 'cause I was trying to let her experiment, but also trying to keep her from looking either trampy or scary in the process. Satisfactory compromise was finally accomplished by my giving her a light brown eyeliner pencil instead of a dark brown. Now she wears her eyeliner and still looks sweet and beautiful ;)
Oh, and she won't take vitamins because she says they make her choke. And she won't chew the childrens ones because they don't taste good. I think vegitarinism is for somebody who is really more willing to put the effort in to do it right. She just mostly just wants the title IMO. (Oh and God forbid her pizza doesn't have pepperoni and sausage on it. Teenagers!!!!)
Mom
Yes, it definitely takes a little bit of willpower and stick-to-it-iveness. :)
I did it because I just wanted to feel better.
i do not live in new york, but i am an ethical vegetarian and you had better believe that i've said something to EVERY adult and child i've seen behaving inappropriately towards an animal in the last five years. (i can remember waiting for my mother to say things to people when i was younger.)
anyone who knows me would say that i am the calmest person ever unless i am present when something doesn't sit well with me. i would not have screamed at the children, nor attempted to reason with someone so rough-natured as this nanny seemed to be, but i would definitely have spoken quickly and harshly to the kid for kicking at the pigeons and STOPPED him for sure. (really, i dare someone to come after me in new york if they didn't like me saving the pigeons: betcha i'd win the crazy contest between me and the nanny. =}) the last time i saw a teenager trying to kill a goose at the lake i pulled out my cell phone and told him that i was calling the cops. he quickly left.
good job, op.
You saw someone trying to kill a goose?? WTF is wrong with people?? Is it wrong to say I hate teenagers? [Kidding, but they do kind of scare me.]
Mom-
My absolute new favorite quote is from your son. "If God didn't want us to eat animals, he wouldn't have made them out of steak."
I'm dying over here. Literally, laughing so hard, I choked. Twice.
Thanks for the pick-me-up after a LONG day!
Viva carnivores!
Mom,
What I meant to say was "A malicious intent BEHIND violent behavior". I think I heard lil' lady stirring while I was typing, and I hadn't had my shower so I never proof read and reworded! 5:15 is God awful early.
Anyway, from what I understand children that exhibit this (rare as it is) are inately aware that it is subversive and usually do it in secret. I imagine the little guy OP was on about was having "good fun" that was unchecked.
Your friend's son intrigues me.... sounds like a different kind of issue. What became of him?
dcmetronanny,
I'm not sure entirely what became of him emotionally. His mom never admitted there was an issue so it was never discussed. I said something once, when he kept trying to hurt my son and described to him, in graphic detail, the long bloody process of how he was going to kill him...at age 4...and her response was, "I don't see a problem."
I remained friendly with her but sort of gracefully backed my son and myself out of our playgroup interactions with them. Then we moved to different states. Her Christmas letters make it sound like all is wonderful...but they were like that even I could see that things were NOT wonderful. He graduated from a great school and is very bright...but I often wonder if he is mentally balanced at this stage. I just can't imagine how he could be.
If I told you some of the stuff he did, even as a preschooler, you would be quite alarmed.
well all i can say is well done people like that lady deserve a scolding in front of large number of people so that they can feel the shame about what wrong they are teaching and doing........ keep up the gud work nanny naw i am your fan :)
Miserly, you're filling the hole that Lindalou left in my life. Actually, you are like Lindalou to the power of 10. Post more!!!
Thanks for standing up for the pigeons O.P. I'm a nanny and don't allow my charges to behave like that towards animals...
Hey, "Manhattan Nanny" at 9:23 PM, you stole my moniker! Apparently we do think alike, I too don't allow my charges to scare the pidgins. I tell them the park is their home, and we shouldn't bother them when they are eating. It is an opportunity to start teaching kindness and empathy. Although you are not supposed to feed them in the playground, my cares tend to "accidentally" drop cheerios for them, and then make sure everyone gets a fair share.
I would never say anything to someone else's child however.
I guess it is never a good idea to get mad at people in general in the street, however, sometimes things just get you (just happened to me today). Maybe the boy will think twice next time he feels like chasing the pigeons.
Victoria Anne is absolutely right.
My young son and his friend got yelled at by a "witch-looking woman" ILLEGALLY feeding flying rats on the UWS . They were running past her on the way to soccer practice so they could do some 'hateful kicking of soccer balls'. My son still sometimes dreams of the experience, especially since the woman who was full of hate and rage and lacked respect for human beings called them very unappropriate names.
kicking small animals is a sign of future trouble IMO.
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