Received Monday, February 25, 2008
This may or may not be anything. A nanny or sitter took a boy of about 2.5-3. into the bathroom at Ancient playground at about 1PM today, (2/25). The boy had apparently messed his pants. The babysitter asked him if he went number 1 or number 2. The boy said "2" and the nanny said, "then you know that is two spanks". I was washing my hands and she was in there with him and I heard her thwack him twice, over his pants as I heard fabric. The boy started crying, not outrageously, just normally. The babysitter called the boy, "Benny". At one point she said, "Benny, why"? She was not mad or out of control with the child, more so she simply informed him of the punishment and dispensed that punishment. I would never want such for my child but she may be doing what the parents asked. Right? That is what I somewhat convinced myself.
The babysitter was black, about 45-50 years of age, medium build, with a bun in her hair, dressed very neatly. The boy was wearing a green jacket, army green color specifically and I think blue jeans. He had brown hair that was cut short on the sides, but somewhat longer on the top.
39 comments:
I don't know....that sounds like a tricky situation. The child I watched was four and always went in her pants and my bosses told me to let her sit in it when it happened so maybe she would stop doing it. I never did of course because that's just gross so it is possible the parents told the nanny to punish the child. But, i think it's rare that parents actually give permission for thier child to be spanked.
Unbelievable.
I would NEVER allow anyone to dole out physical punishment to my son.
This is the kind of crap that can really make a child feel shameful. I find it degrading and it is 10 different kinds of wrong.
I would never lay my hands on anyone's child even if they told me to!
here, here!
smack the nanny and parents up side the head!
poor kid.
oh, puke! that's terrible. even if the nanny was told to do that by the parents, it's still wrong to spank a toddler for potty training accidents. i hope someday when these people are old and go in their depends, someone smacks then on the ass. morons!
Unfortunately it sounds like something the parents told the nanny to do. Since the child was so young and a boy (since they potty train later) I don't think that is the way to get him to potty train. That is so sad that is his punishment. I hope the parents and nanny realize that is not how to get a child to potty train.
Why would you punish a child for having an accident. Potty training takes time. Would you punish a child learning how to walk?
SICK. SICK. SICK. SICK. I agree with all the comments. Smack that nanny and both parents when they start needing their old folks diapers.
If you believe in Karma like I do ... when those Parents & that Nanny end up in a nursing home, they will get smacked around for going #2.
Well, I guess all in agreement here. Even if the parents told her to do it, the nanny should not have spanked him.
You would hope nanny was experienced enough with children to have been able to tell the parents what a big mistake that is to potty train that way...if they told her to do it...or that she knew better herself if it was her own stupid idea.
I hope she atleast changed the poor kid afterwards.
Ew, I hope she changed him before spanking him! Can you imagine the nasty mess she made on his bottom by spanking him with a diaper full of poo?
I agree all here! However, I am almost sure that the parents did not give permission for their son to be physically disciplined, and if so, I am highly surprised. If not, I wish there was some way for them to know what is happening, could you imagine what goes on behind closed doors? Since the nanny has no problem beating someone's son in public?? Its an awful question...Think people, THINK!!!
I am a mother of a 3 children, and I have given my nanny permission to give the children a swat or 2 on the bottom when needed. In the 5 years that she's been with us its been maybe a handful of times that she has actually done it, and has always told us about it afterwards (as do our children). We use spanking as one method of punishment, and believe it is important that the same rewards/punishments be carried over no matter who is in charge. We feel it gives our kids stability, and they know that if they are out of line, any of the 3 of the adults in their life will handle it. When we interviewed nannies we made this very clear, and many weren't comfortable with that, which is fine. But maybe the parents of this child did instruct the nanny to carry out that form of disclipline, and she is simply doing as told. (Although I agree spanking for accidents while potty training is WRONG).
I couldn't work for a family, that expected me to spank their child for an accident they had in their pants.
I don't think its wrong to spank, if it is really needed. An out of control child. One being fresh at the mouth. But like the above poster mentioned, not to use that method all the time. There are other ways to discipline, as well.
1:40, don't be so sure. I have worked for two different families that gave me permission to spank their child according to my judgement. I would NEVER,EVER do it for an accident of any sort. Be it potty training or spilling something. I also would never do so unless permitted by the parents and only on the backside with an open hand. But spanking is not the evil people now make it out to be. Generations of kids were spanked and turned out just fine. And please, no BS about the abusers it produced. There are far more cases now of teens and 20 somethings who grew up spanking free who are abusing their kids and worse.
If a parent wants to spank his or her child, that is one thing. I think it is wrong and deplorable but it is distinctly different from allowing someone who is paid to spank and beat your children. It's practically setting them up for a lifetime of paying someone to spank them in a dungeon setting in the village. Gross.
I find it interesting that the nanny did not act angrily or aggressively toward the child. When she told him, "You know that is two spanks" that sounds like she is enforcing the parents rule rather than her own. Obviously the parents would be told by the child (even a 2 year old) if the nanny were spanking without their permission. The little girl I watch is 2 and she tells her mom all about our day as soon as she gets home ;)
Obviously, spanking for an accident is sad, but I don't think this nanny is a bad one. She is certainly not going to refuse to do what the parents ask her to if she wants to keep her job. I do things that I do not necessarily agree with because they are the rules that my employers have made for their children. These parents will eventually realize that shaming their child into potty training won't work. Hopefully soon, before they do too much damage.
2:14, all I can say is :::puke::: Stuff like this really makes me ill.
Well, ewwwwwwww. I'm going to have to bow out of this thread. hitting other people is wrong, period, and I feel sorry for the kids of adults who can't grasp this. Ugh.
LindaLou, agreed. If you can't make your point without resorting to physical agression, YOU need to work on YOUR communication tactics.
My daughter is the product of spanking when warranted. Not hard, and certainly not beating. I think I spanked her maybe 6 times in her life and she deserved each one. She is now 14. A High Honors student and receiving a scholarship to a private high school. She is a peer counciler at her school. She is constantly complimented on her good behavior, diction and poise. We have a great relationship. A boy French kissed her at a party and she asked if she could tall me secret and then proceeded to relate the entire incident. We talk about everything and are best friends, but there is that line of parent/child between us and she does not test it. CaliMom and Lindalous, I must respectfully disagree with your views. Vive Le Differance!
98 percent of prisoners are the result of spankings or physical punishment. your daughter is a fluke of nature. thank your luck stars she doesnt realize what you did to her and go all menendez brothers on you.
Jody I didn't know that statistics that you pulled out of your arse were credible? If that is the case 98% of people named Jody are complete lunatics. Guess you weren't a fluke or nature, sorry.
As a nanny, I've had parents instruct me to spank their children.
I've never done it, but there are definitely parents who would instruct a nanny to do so.
I agree that spanking for a potty training accident is mean, insensitive, and inappropriate.
Jody -- Rock on, girl. You are 100% right!
Whether you agree with light spanking or not, it's clearly wrong to spank any child for a bathroom accident. It's also stupid, since it will only increase anxiety over something a child (especially a 2-3 yo) may barely be able to control.
Toilet training is about autonomy, not parental convenience. It's teaching children to have mastery over their most basic functions. Done in a relaxed and matter-of-fact way, it promotes genuine self-esteem and confidence. Smacking, shaming or belittling a child for toilet accidents does the opposite.
This is an idiotic way to handle toilet accidents, and isn't going to help this little guy mature, or feel good about his ability to control his own body. On the other hand, it will almost certainly create a lot of anxiety in the child, and may also lead to years of night accidents, which I'm sure will be handled just as intelligently.
Poor little guy. It will take him years to get over this. Something which ought to be as ordinary as breathing will always fill him with shame.
I don't intend to make this an argument about spanking, but I feel I should say this. Those statistics, Jody, are ludicrous. If you have a source for that information I would love to see it. I think the problem is the misunderstanding of what spanking actually is. Perhaps 98% (even though I still think that is an exaggeration) of prisoners experienced abuse. But spanking is not abuse.
My brothers and sisters were all spanked, and we spank our children. So far, no one in my family has ever gone to prison. In fact, most of my family are police officers. Whoever spanked us (usually my mom) would tell us to get the spanking paddle and go wait in her bedroom. She would take ten or fifteen minutes to make sure she was not angry. She would then come in and talk to us about what we'd done. She would explain that by choosing to disobey, we were choosing our punishment. She told us that she loved us very much and that it hurt her to have to spank us. We would bend over her knee, receive one or two swats, and then she would hug us and tell us again how much she loved us. This is not abuse, this is instruction. Instruction that I, as an adult, am grateful I received. I'm so sick of seeing parents who are too afraid to spank their children. So they give time-outs (which experts agree do nothing to correct the child) and they raise children who do not know how to submit to authority. I am a hard-working adult. I've never had problems in school or the workplace because my parents taught me to respect authority. They taught me this respect by spanking me when it was necessary.
A little off-topic, I know, but I just needed to say that. ;)
Remember, Judge Herman Thomas -the Alabama state court judge who allegedly enjoyed spanking male prisoners, of course he also traded favorable treatment for sexual favors-why? People who enjoy spanking people are sexual deviants. I don't care if you were spanked or you spanked your own child, you are a freak or you created a freak. "In San Francisco we have lots of people who pay $200 a session for that kind of treatment. Perhaps this judge has a bright future in Bay Area."
More details -- including a description of the secret six-by-eight room that allegedly served as the judge's S-and-M dungeon -- are available here.
Authorities investigating paddling allegations against Judge Thomas
Judge Accused Of Paddling Inmates
So you may not be in jail, but you are probably a deviant. Is there a Hallmark card to thank mom & pops for that?
Go wait in her bedroom?
Dude @ 3:57- this gets sicker by the second.
Spankings are administered in particular to children by their educators, i.e. mostly (biological, step-, adoptive- or foster-) parent or guardian and school -, orphanage etc. staff. Race and gender have a significant influence on child spanking. Black children and male children are more likely to be hit at home and school,[1] and spanking of boys tends to be more frequent than spanking of girls.[2] Many countries in Europe, as well as New Zealand, have outlawed the domestic spanking of children. In 2007 the Australian government spent 2.5 million dollars on a campaign to persuade Australian parents not to spank their children.[3] The legal status of parental discipline in the US is determined on a state level, and is increasingly in flux, with some states, such as California, considering outright bans (these moves have so far failed), and others detailing guidelines within which spanking remains legal.
Spankings were however also, especially in the past, administered to other persons considered as legal (and/or moral) minors (sometimes illegally still treated as such), including;
Wives and Servants (especially domestics; the British Lord Chief Justice declared their corporal punishment, like children's, justified in 1795)
Often copied from domestic discipline, as in fraternities and sororities (originally living units where seniors and/or staff wielded the paddle rather like parents at home), and sports and other teams (though now usually only as 'play' in hazing and rarely as actual coercive sanction) and other initiation context, as with recruits (in military, police and some other professions).
Informal spankings in the domestic context can also occur in an institutional environment, parallel to the more formal punishments, when administered by the victim's peers.
Yes, just as one used to be able to spank one's wife before that was outlawed, the US will catch up with the rest of the MORAL world and outlaw the abuse that hides under the term spanking and continues to exist in America.
Shame on all of you who have ever "spanked" a child. Shame on you.
3:57, I'd say your brothers needed an outlet for their control issues and they enjoy being in a position of authority, doling out physical punishment as they see fit, and manipulating people's emotions. Same as any dominatrix for hire, but they have managed to get themselves hired with their local law enforcement agencies.
Calimon, your statement is idiotic, I'm surprised at you!
Ro, you are ususally an ass so no surprise there.
What exactly are you taking exception to in ro's comment? the very last line? every thing else is factual. google it.
Yay! Ro, Cali mom and thank you Dora.
An interesting article regarding some recent studies on the effects of spanking:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/02/29/national/w171546S97.DTL&tsp=1
Oh my word! Let me just say that there is a huge difference between a spanking given out of rage or anger and a spanking given out of love to discipline.
I am the oldest of seven children, and at one point, was given the responsibility of disciplining my younger sister while my mother was working.
My little sister was going through a very defiant stage and there were times where I spanked her in order to discipline her. I made sure that I was not angry and even left the room to cool down if I felt that I was getting frustrated with her. She was only spanked for things that she had been told repeatedly not to do.
As in- "Suzie, do not kick the wall, it leaves marks on the wall. Suzie, do not kick the wall. Suzie, if you kick the wall again I will have to spank you for being disobedient."
If she persisted, she was swatted a couple of times on the bottom.
Not only that, but EVERY TIME she kicked the wall, she was firmly reminded not to kick the wall and EVERY TIME she did not obey she receive a swat.
I mean COME ON PEOPLE!!!
I am a firm believer that children should NEVER be hit and/or spanked because you are angry with them. However, I'm also a firm believer that disciplining (note that I DIDN'T say punishing) your child is essential.
All these parents who do not discipline their children in a consistent way are raising disrespectful hellions!
Children should not think that it is okay to whine, complain, grumble, demand, disobey, talk back, be intentional destructive, and curse...among other things!
I babysat a three year old one time who hit me, bit me, and told me I was "A fucking bitch"...that is just sad!
Yes, kids have bad days. I know I do! However, hellions seem to rule the day. I know kids that rarely need physical discipline, and that is great! But, in my experience, the parents that don't believe in spanking tend to have kids who NEED to be spanked. They are headstrong, wild, disobedient little creatures!!!
And as for saying 98% of prisoners are there because they were spanked...give me a break! They are there because they BROKE THE LAW!
That's like saying "98% of coke abusers are druggies because they were given shots as a child"
No, I could possibly find a link there...your statement is even MORE preposterous!
I'm done ranting.
Just...use some logic and realize that just because someone does some study and tells you something doesn't mean it is true, okay?
~DebaterGirl
are you serious?? your MOM had you spank your sister?? that seems so wrong to me!! how fucked up is your sister now??
Children have been disciplined by people other than their parents, at their parents request for ages.
For example, the public school district where my cousin went to high school still allows the principle to spank children for certain things. All the parents sign off on the policy.
It is an extension of the parent's authority, not an undermining of their authority.
And she is not "fucked up" at all. She is a happy little girl who is friendly, polite, and a joy to be around.
Maybe I wasn't clear. I am about thirteen years older than my sister and have been involved in her care and raising since she was first born. It wasn't as though I was beating the poor child either. I used time-outs, re-direction, and other methods as well.
My mom was/is a SAHM and is very involved, but decided to work part time for about a year.
Don't worry, all is not lost...nor does everything have to be a tragedy 6:49 ;)
~DebaterGirl
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