Thursday

Nanny in Northern NJ Asks for Your Advice

Received Thursday, January 3, 2007-Perspective & Opinion

Hello, I'm a well seasoned nanny that works for a pretty well off family. Well, I was just reviewing the site, and wondered if I can have a few of the families here--who have nannies--help.

I've been working for a family for a little more than three years. I bring home $885 a week , and work 12 hours or more a day. While I can't stand the father because he's freaking nuts, I love the mom, the moms family, and the kids. I can't take the dads family, they're just as nuts.

Anyway, I don't get medical coverage, and I'm not on the books (I have the option, but they don't push it. As I understand, they will have to pay more money if I get taxes taken out of my pay, and they will pay a portion of my medical insurance). I drive all of the time--in my own car--taking the kids where they need to go. I also get $25 a week for gas--that's tallied into my $885, btw. I do about 60-100 miles a week in my car. I bought a new car at the end of October, 2006. To date, my car is just a little over a year old, with 31,169 miles on it. I will have to give it up by the time it's paid, or before time. I talked to my boss about this this past August. I still don't have a car from them. I just wrote her an e-mail about it again today. No word, yet.

Here is my issue. For he past 3 years I've taken maybe 3 days off...and that's when I'm deathly ill. I always get sick from the kids, I only go on vacation when they do. They are messy, pigs. They have way too much of everything for their kids. I cook dinner, do chores I'm not supposed to like clean out the fridge, take the garbage out, feed and tend to the cat, purge the kids clothes of all of their summer, or too small clothes, take messages, wait for some sort of fix it man, grocery shop, and get rid of broken toys...plus I clean up after them. They'll run their dishwasher over the weekend with tons of company dishes, and leave them to me to put away. Please keep in mind I help the school aged child with her homework, and am desperately trying to potty train the younger child!
When my birthday comes, I get a stupid gift, or maybe 100 dollars. At the end of the year, I get 100 dollars,ONLY! No other gifts, no bonus!
I've never complained because I thought I get good money, because I can come and go as I please, and use their washing machine, but in reality, I'm a teacher, and a trained professional nanny. I'm not someone off of the freakin' street.
The family adores me, appreciates me, praises me, and calls me the kids second mommy. If this is true, why treat me like shyt?!

To the parents that have nannies, tell me, what do you think of my situation, and how to I let this mom know I'm hurt?

PS: One day, I picked up the older child from summer camp. She had a red slap mark --with the fingers-- planted on her cheek. I asked her what happened, she told me. I went to the director and alerted her to the goings on of my charge's class. The director took care of it. When we got home, I hugged her, and placed an ice pack on her face. I then told her the next time he hits you, let me know, jokingly, I said, "I'll get him." Later, I told the mom what happened, she was appalled, and thanked me. When I saw the father, the child told him what happened, he looked at me for more information, and I told him. Do you know what he said to me? "That was nice, S, but next time, just leave it alone, I mean, you gotta go home, right, it's none of your business." I can cry right now thinking of this. For F*&^ sakes,I care for your kids throughout the day more than you, and you can't appreciate me defending your child?!!!! Are you f'ing kidding me?! So, I said to myself, maybe I'll let the little boy rape her next time (not really, just anger speaking, trust me...really, I'll kill first), and then he'll still tell me to mind my business. That's the smart a&&ed comments I have to deal with everyday...w/ no bonus.
Oh, and, can you stay late? This, after an 11 hour day.

137 comments:

erics mom said...

First of all, get out of that house. Second, with all your experience, and college education, go to a family that appreciates you. I can't believe you use your car to transport these children! Do you know what a liablity this could be to you. If something should happen. Besides, giving you $25.00 a week is shit for all the abuse put on YOUR CAR. And in reality your not getting paid $885.00 take off the gas money, that doesn't count.

You say that they respect you. It doesn't sound like it to me. They ignore your request for a car to use to transport the kids around since the end of the summer. They don't want to pay you on the books. Thats a really bad idea on your part and theirs. Plus, the government will catch on in time if you are not declaring any wages.

So if your a professional nanny, why are you doing things your not supposed to be doing? Stick up for yourself. Get some self esteem. They really need to get a cleaner in once a week. They are messy and slobs because they know they can get away with it. They figure once you come in to work you will clean it. Next time leave their crap around. Dishes left from the weekend in the dishwaher, don't put them away. Feed the kids that day on paper plates. When they open it and say something, respond back. That you are not cleaning up their mess from the weekend.

I think you really need to also take some personal time for yourself. Go away, get your hair done. You will feel better about yourself. And have more self confidence. Let them see you have a life outside of theirs. I understand you want to be close to the family. Of course thats normal. You can be part of their life (while working) but don't be their life. So many nannies get so attached to the families. I was a nanny when I was younger before getting married with my son. The family I thought was the greatest. In reality they just used me as much as they could. As long as they called me "a part of the family" I felt happy. And they know that. Its like those stupid nanny ads: We are looking for a nanny to watch our kids, transport them to school and bring them to activities. Also, while they are doing activities, clean the house, run errands, cook dinner and give baths and put them down to bed. Oh yeah by the way: we are looking for someone to be with us for the long haul a part of the family.

If you learn anything go to another family or change careers.

Anonymous said...

P.S. ever think of changing jobs and becoming a postpartum doula? They make really good money, and not alot of school. It sounds like you love children. Its never dull. You are always working with different families. Some doulas even get benefits thru the hospital

talkermom said...

Hi,
It does sound like you are not getting a good deal, but I don't think just walking out is the right way to respond. How will they ever learn how to treat people? I would request a meeting with them to talk about how things are going. Make an agenda and give them a chance to address any issues they are having, too. Try to frame things constructively, such as suggesting a part-time housekeeper instead of just complaining about housework. Talk to the dad about how his comment made you feel and try to find out what his concern was in reprimanding you.

You sound like someone who cares about these kids. Maybe everyone could benefit. Of course, if you explain to them what is not going well and what you should be paid and they just dig in their heels, too bad for them, you should leave.

erics mom said...

It doesn't sound like the father would be nice to her, if she did address her concerns. I am sure he is very intimidating to her. Even if the mom is nice, shes going to side with her husband.

I think she should get another job and give her notice.

Tx Nanny said...

First of all if you are using your own car you should be getting at least 48.5 cents per mile, that's what the IRS rate is I believe.
Honestly I think you've given this family 3 years and it sounds like you're ready to move on. I know you love the children and mom but you have to do what's best for you, they will be fine. Just be sure to tell them honestly why you're leaving if you decide to.
If you decide to stay you need to have a sit down with them and ask for some changes. Stick up for yourself.

Anonymous said...

I think it would be great if you could just sit down with the mom and just explain that the job is much harder at this point in time, and that more compensation would be suitable. Good luck. It does sound like the family really loves you, and I hope you can work something out.

paula said...

Um, I come from a different direction. This nanny comes across as bitter, hateful and disgruntled. To even joke in jest or say in anger, "next time I'll let her get raped". A normal person doesn't let their mind go there-not when it involves a child you REALLY care about. I say this nanny should go apply at JC Penney and take a break from working as a nanny. Maybe she is burnt out. I don't know, but her attitude is frightful.

Anonymous said...

OP here.

Paula, stop being so uptight, it's a freakin' joke. The other day the mom told me she planned on putting her non stop screaming 2 year old out into the 4 seasons room if he wouldn't stop screaming. It's 19 degrees here. It was a joke, you're allowed to do it, try it. Second of all, I'm college educated, a teacher, and have been a nanny for quite some time (more than 3 years) why would I need to go to JC PENNY? I hate sarcasm bsed on specualtion.

Anyway, thanks for the advice. To the people that responded, do you have nannies? Just looking for the best advice.

I would hate to just leave-the 3 year old acts out when I'm not around, so I know he'll miss me dearly.
I'm not burnt out, I was just lost. I didn't get upset until I requested a car, got no response, and then saw all of the bonus information posted here.
The father is quite intimidating. I'm extremely interested in weather and global warming. He happens to be a geoscientist thats often featured on the History chanel(those "How was the world created" shows, or shows on global warming). Well, I like talking to him about it, or I might bring up something I read or watched, and he just gets so nasty, ask me do I know what I'm talking about, gets really smart allecy, and is just a pure a-hole about it. Mind you he's disgusting, eats food that's been in the oven overnight, and leaves literal pieces of shyt all over, and around the toilet( places humans shouldn't be able to reach)---he doesn't f'ing clean it. The cleaning lady is a friend of mine, and I feel for her, I swear. How dare he be such a prick?! So, yes, he scares me a bit, I'll say good morning, he says nothing, but I've come to realize, no matter how brain smart he is, he's still freakin' slow, and lacks all sorts of common sense and social skills.

I guess I'll have a talk with her...kind of scary since she made me feel so comfy., but F that, I deserve a car, and more.

Is it fair that I take vacations when they do? It's about 3 a year.

Is it fair that when they go on vacation, they only pay me for 9 hours days (everyday, I get paid 12)?

Is it fair that I don't get a Christmas bonus?

You'll love this one. Since I was working so many hours a day, they paid me OT. When it was my raise time, they paid me an extra dollar, but took away the OT, however, my hours are still the same! when I work OT, that's when they pay me the extra whatever it is. Is this even legal?
And yes, I know I should be getting taxes taken away. My story is set, however, there's isn't.

BTW,are they saving money, by not doing taxes with me?

Since I have no ben. coming my way, should I be paid more?

Opinions, please.

Thank you

cali mom said...

Holy shit, where to begin.

First off, "Paula" has some issues. They need not be YOUR issues, OP.

I don't have a nanny but have had enough a$$hole bosses who did not appreciate me or the good job I was doing that I'll speak up.

It IS illegal for them not to pay you OT. And yes, they are saving boatloads of money by paying you off the books. If you get unjured on the job, tough shit. No workman's comp for you. In fact, they can claimn they've never seen you before in their life, and who's to say different? Driving THEIR kids in YOUR car and have an accident? THEY could claim you had no business driving their kids in your car and sue YOU for the medical bills, if they were slimy enough which it sounds like they might be.

Why have you put up with this for so long? Stop cleaning up after them and their pets immediately! It might be worth having a talk with them about some necessary changes to your work arrangement but you should put EVERYTHING in writing, get on the books, and if they are obstinate, move on without letting them know your plans.

mom said...

Well, I don't have a nanny, but I did have some dear babysitters who were very important to me over the years. I would have been horrified to know they were unhappy with any of our arrangements and would have bent over backwards to kaap them happy because I very much valued them as people and as people I could absolutely trust to take good care fo my children.

I would have hoped that they would have felt comfortable coming to me with any grievance so that we could work it out satisfactorily. I wouldn't have allowed them to take advantage of me, but I also would have wanted to be perfectly fair with them.

Perhaps the mom here feels the same way. (The car thing is not the bset sign, I must admit.) But talk to her before you just quit. Tell her all of this and see what she says. If she truly does value you, she will make the necessary changes to keep you happy and working for her. If she turns a deaf ear, you will know for sure that she does not value you as she claims to and you won't feel guilty about leraving them for a more fair working situation.

And one very strong word of advice: Start getting paid on the books immedidately, either at this job or your next. I know several IRS attorneys and also many tax attorneys who defend people against the IRS. I can tell you that you never want to mess with the IRS. You may get away with it for years...but once they are on to you, you'll wish you hadn't. And yes, they are saving money by paying you off the books. They should be paying taxes and social security on you.

Anonymous said...

S, let me tell you I worked for a horrible family like that not too long ago for a year. They were so fake infront of me and so nasty behind my back. The kids would say things to me when they talk about me.

You need to go. They are stingy and inconsiderate first of all. You can do better. I found a great family who lets me run the show when they are gone. No list in the morning- nothing. And we do great.

The dad sounds as awful as Ed use to sound. Rude arrogant pr***. I was embaressed for that man everytime he opened his mouth.

Find a job somewhere else with better pay and better people. I know you love the kids but I love myself too and I was HATING going in to work after 3 months. Move on into a healthy environment. good luck.

erics mom said...

It sounds like you work either in Ridgewood, Woodcliff Lake or Franklin Lakes area. You should go apply at their schools. I am sure they pay well, and good benefits.

Anonymous said...

If you truely want to be taken as a profession, you need to have a written/signed nanny/family work agreement. That will be a good ice breaker and help everyone clearly see what duties you are willing to do.
Also now would be a good time to start getting paid on the books-
if a nanny is doing things illegally, how can they expect to have other areas covered legally?
(i.e. overtime- live-out nannies are entitled by law to be paid time and half for any hours worked over 40 hours per week.
Also law entitles you to be re-imbursed 48.5 cents per mile, if you are using your car for job related purposes.)

I suggest you join an area Nanny Support Group- there is one in your area, as well as a National Nanny Group too- I suggest NANC-
National Assocation for Nanny Care, they can give you great advise, support and resources.

Remeber, only you can stand up for yourself- and allow someone to NOT take advantage of you. Good luck!

Anonymous said...

If you don't like the pay and the way they treat you, then leave.

Anonymous said...

OP, here
erics mom, we're all located in Mercer County. :)

8:29, great advice, thank you. I am now getting on the books. However, legal or not, if they're supposed to be paying me certain wages, and know they're getting over, then that's just wrong. BTW, where did you get your information from about the legal rites? Also, once I approach this situation, would they owe me back wages? Their choice, right?

8:33, thanks for the obvious advice.

Anonymous said...

8:29 here...
Search the internet...
google is a good search engine.
Just type in:
"Nannies and Fair Labor Standards Act" and you'll come up with a few websites.

Also look up:
"Nanny Gas Re-imbursement"

It will also be very helpful for you to visit the website of your local Nanny Support Group- www.nannyalliancenyandnj.com

E-mail them- they can give you countless resources and links to print out and present to your employers to back up your request to be paid fairly and legally.

If the law allows it- why would you settle for anything less?

I would not blame your employers for their lack of knowledge into the nanny profession.
Most families don't know the laws- and it's up to those that do know them to educate the families.

YOU are your best advocate....
research and help spread the knowledge.

BTW..how did you find your job?
if thru an agency, maybe you can get them to mediate on your behalf.

Anonymous said...

If you are really a professional and educated, you did not convey that in your post. I understand you were venting, but the manner in which you did it and the words you chose to use makes me not have any sympathy for you.

Being paid off the books and saying what you did in the way you did- (even if it was being sarcastic/a joke) is very telling and showcases you in very bad light.
When nannies come on here and vent/post message in the manner you have- you really bring down the nanny profession.

Anonymous said...

9:42, I disagree with you, but that's my opinion, and you're entitled to yours. I didn't realize there was a certain way for a nanny--who is a human, not working for you, is not working right now, and is on a free message board-- to vent, or ask questions. Are there verbiage rules? Should I have used 500 dollar words? I mean, really?
BTW, I'm not looking for anyones sympathy, I do believe I asked for opinions. So by all means, have no sympathy, because your "sympathy" will not make me feel better, or pay my bills. :) Have a fab one. Oh, and I don't represent the entire nanny proffesion, I represent myself. Comment on nannies with engraved teeth, and the ones that sit on their assees all day, or text endlessly at the playground. Maybe I should feel bead because they "represent" me. 'Shrugs'

Anonymous said...

Excuse me, feel *bad

melanie said...

nutter nanny,
You do not sound educated at all. You sound angry and misguided and resentful. I so loathe resentful people. And fyi,you aren't entitled to jack shit unless you negotiated it up front. My advice- grow a pair and go look for a new job, and speak up in a respectable way from the get go. Negotiate for yourself based on your experience. It doesn't matter what Mrs. X pays Mary or Mr. D pays Donna, you need to just worry about yourself. And when you settle for something, it's on you.

I feel that all of the nannies defending this numnut really make nannies look bad.

As a nanny employer, I am apalled.

Nanny B said...

OP-I agree, I think you have the power to stand up for yourself in your job. We as nannies can either stand up for ourselves or live with what we got. You need to stand up for what you deserve, and think about getting a contract. I actually used to live in mercer co, and still live close by OP, so if you ever want to get together, let me know, I can introduce you to other nannies in the area, help you meet people who can give you advice or just be support. Also, I agree with 930, I think you should find nanny support groups in your area, nannyalliancenyandnj is a great group, so is njnannies@yahoogroups.com. check out both groups, the support you receive is amazing. And message me if your ever looking for someone to hang out with.

Anonymous said...

Oh, God, Melanie, shut-up! This person asked for an opinion, not a put down from a loser nanny employer like you. With a mouth like that, I feel bad for your nanny, and your probably too spoiled, kids. She may be misguided, and who wouldn't be resentful in a situation like that?! Just because a person is educated, they're supposed to have a properly written thesis when they vent, here?
Are all nannies supposed to know the nanny game?
There is something called a learning process in life.
I swear you people that can say nothing nice needs to just shut the fuck up.

About growing a pair. it's easy to pretend to have some while behind a computer screen, hisisng, hopeing hubbie isn't going gay, lmalwao!!!


To the OP, Erics mom, and 8:29 are right on the money. Do some research, talk to your agency if you're with one, and have a talk with our employer. Your situation isn't that bad, and can be fixed. No worries.
I'm Lisa so you won't have to use a number.

Anonymous said...

Have a talk with your employer, rather.

Anonymous said...

Hello, Nanny b, I would love to message you. I'm new to this,however, can you tell me how, lol?

10:22, thank you for defending me against, The Melanie. No need, however. I hear all kinds of remorse and resentment in her tone. Her words don't bother me, but yours were too funny, :).

Anonymous said...

you all know there is a chatboard, right? why don't you put it to use.

message to the nanny who wrote this- as an employer, I would be very disappointed if I hired a nanny who turned out to be a hissing snake like you. You sound passive agressive, perhaps you should try counseling? Do they have group therapy for resentful/disgruntled nannies? Perhaps the INA should offer such. There is most definitely a need.

gloria said...

Lisa,
why don't you sign your posts as Lisa instead of anonymous? And welcome. The more opinions the merrier.

Cheers,

tree said...

OP, you gave three good years to this family. I wouldn't be able to handle the dad. That alone would make my find a new job. Tell the mother why you are considering a new job and maybe she'll work in the car for you.
The family I worked for gave me my own mini van to use and a gas credit card and they payed the bill for me. I never missed used it. The family would of dirty dishes from the weekend in their sink and clean ones in the dishwasher. I would empty the dishwasher but I never touched the dirty dishes because I didn't make the mess.
Good luck to you and keep us posted on your decision.

EN said...

Nanny, is it possible you made your own bed? Are you overweight or do you otherwise suffer from low self esteem? Why weren't you able to simply say, "the amount you are reimbursing me for gasoline is not correct. This is the correct amount".

Why would you ever once agree to work late for people who were not kind or generous to you? You falsely give the impression that you are satisfied with what is going on. If you are an experienced and educated nanny, it is your market. You should be able to name your price. Our last nanny left over a salary dispute and resurfaced in our area three months later working for twice the salary. Twice. (Here I should say that we hired a nanny at X dollars per week, X per overtime, X per travel and stuck to it, but the nanny began freely associating with nanny types from Greenwich and came to learn that it isn't at all unusual for nannies to take home 1K per week with perks. My husband doesn't work at a hedge fund. We don't have the superfluous wealth that many people have, but we did hire her in good faith and retain her services for $750 per week.

I do believe I went off on a tangent, but my end point is that I don't understand why a qualified nanny would tolerate shoddy treatment. I just cannot comprehend the mentality of the nanny involved. I can certainly understand that there are greedy employers out there looking to hire and exploit a work horse, but you set the rules.

One final note, nanny- clean up that potty mouth. Or maybe that's the norm for south (gasp) jersey.

sally said...

Ah crikey. The family doesn't adore you. You are being used. But then, you know that- so why are you still there?

NYC Mom said...

I have to agree with a couple of the posters above who say OP does not sound particularly educated or kind. This is not someone I would want caring for my children.

Further, despite what ISYN would have you believe $885/week is excellent money for a nanny position. I recently interviewed many nannies in NYC which runs at the top of the pay scale and $550-$650 were very standard asking salaries. I have reviewed comments and posts on here over months, and there is clearly a hugely disproportionate number of nannies on here. Thus, nanny posts always receive huge support and salary inflation is rampant. I would review the bonus surveys with a healthy amount of skepticism. Further, should you choose to go on the books both your employer AND you will pay extra. Your takehome will likely reduce by 15% or more and the can expect to pay an additional $100/weekly. They have no legal obligation to provide you with health insurance, on or off the books.

Moderate housework is also a common part of nanny position, especially if kids are in school and/or napping for part of the day. I consider: garbage, dishwasher, and feeding a cat pretty light. Basic household assistance is also common for nannies including: grocery shopping, letting in repair or delivery men. Everything related to the kids is also standard for a nanny and it is ridiculous that you think cleaning up after the kids, sorting toys, or organizing seasonal/outgrown clothes are exceptional duties.

Certainly, there are issues with this family that sound difficult particularly your relationship with the father and using your own vehicle (though this is something you clearly agreed to at some point). I also agree that $100 is a small holiday bonus, but there are no absolutes at bonus time and as even the ISYN skewed salary showed you - the range is huge and often reflects what the family thinks is normal, not what they think you are worth.

Bottom line: you are clearly unhappy and I firmly believe that when the nanny/employer relationship reaches this level of bitterness, it is best for both sides if they agree to mutually part ways. Why don't you consider a return to teaching which should offer you better hours, wages (if on the books), benefits, and less interpersonal conflict.

chick said...

Wow. Where to start?

Being paid off the books is illegal. Yes, you will lose money when taxes are taken out of your actual salary, and yes, they will pay about 10% in taxes above and beyond your salary. On the plus side, you will have verifiable income, and the IRS won't penalize you or your employers for tax evasion. How did you buy a car without verifiable income?

Your actual hourly rate may reflect OT, or it may not. That's why a work agreement is ALWAYS neccessary, because it defines salary and benefits. If you don't have a WA, it's time for a sit-down meeting so that you all can write one up.

The current IRS rate for mileage re-imbursement is 50.5 cents per mile. That should also be in your WA. Was use of a family vehicle in any WA you signed? If not, again, it's time to re-negotiate that WA, rather than just ask for a car to use.

All required duties should be outlined in the WA as well. A true full-charge nanny (i.e., one worth a salary such as you earn) is responsible for ALL child related duties, including toy and clothing sorting, laundry, etc. Other household duties should, again, be listed in the WA. You can certainly negotiate on these, but light general tidying and groceries/errands are not uncommon duties. Taking the trash out is, in my mind, preferable to letting it pile up on the floor, but that's just me. :-)

The WA should also cover benefits such as vacation time, bonuses, raises, health insurance, etc. No one is "entitled" to anything - if you feel you have earned XYZ, you need to make your case and ask for those items in your new WA. 3 weeks paid vacation is more than most people receive.

The dad sounds like a jerk. If you decide to stay with this family, you have chosen to work for a jerk. If you like the rest of the job, then you need to choose whether it's worth putting up with a jerk or not.

marypoppin'pills☼ said...

I'm afraid OP has been working in this situation for 3 yrs., and I seriously doubt the Family (especially the Father) will be open to any changes.
However, I would start with the Mother. Tell her everything you're dissatisfied with, keeping in mind some of the previous posters, and what construes 'normal' duties for a Nanny, and try to be diplomatic about it.
I'm not sure they will be happy going 'on the books', but all of you need peace of mind. The IRS coming at you is definately not someone you want to wrangle with. It is true, once they get ahold of you, it is hard to get them off your back and can take years ... I've seen it first-hand, over seemingly innocent things.
Secondly, the deal about driving your own car ... bad idea. I agree with all the above: the liability if there's an accident, the wear and tear on your car. But again, is this something they would be willing to bend on after 3 yrs.?
You have quite a bit of negotiating ahead of you ... good luck. And if they won't do it, get out. And next time ... get a work agreement/contract, and review it every year with the Family.

Anonymous said...

As a former employer, I can just say that you should NOT take the passive aggressive approach and start doing things in their house in an angry way.
You will learn more from the experience if you just talk to the mom face to face and state your case. It will be difficult and you will be nervous, but you will be so glad you approached the situation in an adult way and it will be good practice for the next job. And you know in the next job, you will deal with things as they arise and not let them accumulate and fester over time.

I agree that the rape comment was scary and uncalled for but I understand that you are angry. Let that be a sign that you need to get a fresh start in another job if you cannot find resolution with your current employer.
Good luck...

I'm Just Saying said...

OP: You really have no one to blame but yourself. You seem to be in a bad situation but it is one of your own creation. People will take advantage of you if you let them and you are letting them. Do your circumstances sound unlivable? Not really but if the situation doesn't work for you, you need to get out. If you do so in an appropriate way (adequate notice, assistance with the interview process, etc) I would imagine you could still have a loving relationship with their children. In your next position, make your requirements known up front and, for goodness sake, get paid on the books - cash under the table is the dangerous for you and your future and I don't care if that sounds paranoid. By agreeing to work on the books you demonstrate that you see your position as a real job and a responsibility, not a cash based perk.

I do have to agree with some of the previous posters, however, that the overall tone of your post is disturbing. I am a fairly sarcastic person with (IMHO) a good sense of humor - threatening to rape someone (especially coming from a childcare provider) is disturbing, not amusing.

Anonymous said...

Op, as many here have said you are making a very high wage. I think that the job definately sounds less than ideal. You need to decide if you want to look for another family. Just realize that you are not likely to get the same wage somewhere new.

Anonymous said...

Great advice, everyone. I do agree that I made my own bed and I should deal with it. The job isn't that bad. I enjoy it and the kids. I wouln't dare take out my issues on my job or the children, however, I would love to take them out on the dad :). As I said before, I'm going on the books, this morning she told me I'm getting a mini-van, and we've scheduled a meeting to talk about my concerns.
The only reason I was upset and lost in wonder was because of my personal car mileage, and my christmas gift, not a bonus, never got one from them, And the fact that I have 0 benifits.

I'm sorry you all don't agree with my so called potty mouth, lol, I can be worse, and trust me, your nannies are just as awful or worse--you just don't see it, hear it or want to believe it. Oh, and it's not a South Jersey thing, it's a human thing, not everyone is cookie cutter or blind. Oh, yes, and I never said I would rape someone, I said maybe I'll let the little boy rape her, and then he'll still tell me to mind my business. Sounds just as bad as a mom, or dad saying they'll hand their child from the rafters, or it's not as bad as being physically abused. I nannied for a child who's parents are extremely uptight and too over attentive like some of you are letting on, and now this kid has no friends, social skills, and is on all sorts of meds. Lighten up, there are worse things in the world, I SWEAR!

For those of you saying that I sound uneducated, tell me, what does education on a message board sound like? I've asked this previously and never got a reply. I'm sure most of you are college educated, and about 90% of these replies sound just as "uneducated" as I do.
try being helpul in this burning, murderous, greedy, hateful world. All of your negative energy when someone is asking for help does nothing to help me, you, your family, your money, your health, or the environment. Remember, I don't work for you, so you have no worries.

Thanks for all of the replies (helpful and negative), and I promise to tell you how it all went.


PS, to those of you saying I'm a crappy nanny. I'm the one who posted the Princeton story about the nanny calling her child a nigger, smoking in the babies face and I called the cops because of the abuse...as in, I took action, more than I can say for most of you moms seeing awful atrocities during the day between a child and their care taker.

Don't be so bitter.

Anonymous said...

NYC Mom-
The salaries you list of $550 to $600 may only be good if the nanny is just starting out, a live-in, and the hours are not more than 40 hours per week, the duties are limited to the children and the family only has one child, and other benefits are given.

The OP said she earns $865 cash-
for 60 hours. She should be earning over-time for 20 hours.
So actually the salary is a bit off.

I think what is sending the nanny overboard is working so many hours.
You sound burnt out.
But I am happy to hear that you are trying to work things out with your nanny/family and are moving toward being paid on the books.
There are several nanny payroll services out there- I suggest you visit the site of www.homeworksoltions.com - they can take care of everthing for your empoloyer and even set up direct deposit for you each payday, so you never have to ask your employers for your paycheck.

I would also suggest you visit www.legallynanny.com - they list great info. about being paid on the books and the benefits/tax credits families are able to take by doing everything legally.
Nannies are household employees and their are laws that protect nannies.

If you want to stay in this job, I think you need to have a heart-to-heart with the dad. If you can't/don't want to do it in person, write a letter, and let him know how you feel- hopefully it will open up his eyes and treat you better- if not, at least you made him aware of your feelings.

If you do decide to leave this job-
please be mindful that-that you were there for 3 years- you are going to need them as a reference.
And when someone gives a reference they basically base what they say on the last few weeks of your preformance.
I would suggest you get a written evaluation done. (if you google nanny evaluation- you will find a form). If things so bad- at least you will have a written evaulation to show you were an employee who went above and beyond.

To answer the OP's post regarding what an educated person sounds like? IMO, it's someone who can vent in a way that does not use profanity. Since we all here only have your posts to go by- and the vocabulary you chose to use- that is what we have to base our opionions on.
Choose your words carefully,
people judge others as they do the outside of a book. Just my two cents- since you asked....

Anonymous said...

NYC Mom-
The salaries you list of $550 to $600 may only be good if the nanny is just starting out, a live-in, and the hours are not more than 40 hours per week, the duties are limited to the children and the family only has one child, and other benefits are given.

The OP said she earns $865 cash-
for 60 hours. She should be earning over-time for 20 hours.
So actually the salary is a bit off.

I think what is sending the nanny overboard is working so many hours.
You sound burnt out.
But I am happy to hear that you are trying to work things out with your nanny/family and are moving toward being paid on the books.
There are several nanny payroll services out there- I suggest you visit the site of www.homeworksoltions.com - they can take care of everthing for your empoloyer and even set up direct deposit for you each payday, so you never have to ask your employers for your paycheck.

I would also suggest you visit www.legallynanny.com - they list great info. about being paid on the books and the benefits/tax credits families are able to take by doing everything legally.
Nannies are household employees and their are laws that protect nannies.

If you want to stay in this job, I think you need to have a heart-to-heart with the dad. If you can't/don't want to do it in person, write a letter, and let him know how you feel- hopefully it will open up his eyes and treat you better- if not, at least you made him aware of your feelings.

If you do decide to leave this job-
please be mindful that-that you were there for 3 years- you are going to need them as a reference.
And when someone gives a reference they basically base what they say on the last few weeks of your preformance.
I would suggest you get a written evaluation done. (if you google nanny evaluation- you will find a form). If things so bad- at least you will have a written evaulation to show you were an employee who went above and beyond.

To answer the OP's post regarding what an educated person sounds like? IMO, it's someone who can vent in a way that does not use profanity. Since we all here only have your posts to go by- and the vocabulary you chose to use- that is what we have to base our opionions on.
Choose your words carefully,
people judge others as they do the outside of a book. Just my two cents- since you asked....

MissDee said...

NYCMom, Melanie and EN: All three of you sound like people I wouldn't want to work for. How dare you talk the OP down?!

OP: I know how pissed off you must be with everything going on, and I do agree with the other posters, not the three bitchy posters, about talking with the mom. The dad sounds like an asshole, and his comments are crossing the line. YOU are taking care of HIS children everyday, and because you spend so much time with them, YOU have become a second mom AND dad to them. YOU clean his house, drive his children everywhere, YOU do EVERYTHING a SAHM or SAHD would do, YOU go into work everyday and he can't say anything nice to you. HE has crossed the line. HE should be grateful and appreciative that someone like you is working for his ignorant ass. His telling you not to worry about his daughter being hurt at summer camp is downright cold and nasty, YOU, as their nanny, have every right to be concerned with what goes on at school. As for the mom, well, she might be one of those moms that has the backbone, then dad takes over, and she lets him. Lots of good advice to talk with her about the car situation. Having over 31,000 miles on a car that is already over a year old is not right. They should provide you with a car, and if they are that well off, enough to pay you over $800 a week, then they can afford a car.

The WA is something that you can negoiate between the three of you, or in this case, the two of you, since the dad sounds like an ass. After 3 years, you deserve more, and you deserve better. I'm curious as to WHERE you found this position, and what was the job/family like in the beginning?

And yes, you can get into trouble if you don't pay taxes, remember that. I had an interview recently where they didn't want to pay taxes, or they were going to have someone else do it after I recommended Breedlove, who specialize in nanny taxes. I'm glad I didn't get that job!

As for the posters that said you were uneducated, they probably just mad they can't afford you! Keep your head up and let us know what happens!

*warmest hugs to OP*

mom said...

I disagree with one thing above. I would not have a heart to heart with the dad. he sounds like one of those people who will not come around and will only use the occasion to further degrade you. He is obviously one of those men who finds himself to be superior intelectually, and probably in every other way...and therefore entitled to treat you like the lowly servant that he sees you as. Don't waste your time or breath on him anymore. Don't work to get into his good graces. It doesn't sound like he has any. And don't give him yet another opportunity to hurt your feelings. Just speak to him when necessary and otherwise regard him as the pathtic creature that he is. Oh, and be glad he's not your husband!

marypoppin'pills♥ said...

I'm curious OP,
How did you end up approaching the mom in all of this? Maybe you can help others ...
And has the mom discussed anything with you concerning how DAD will feel about going legit with the Taxes? ... and providing the car? What's his opinion there?
It sure seemed to go real smooth for you.

Nanny B said...

OP, I to would be interested in what comes of your meeting with the mom, as all of us nannies know, those little heart to hearts never go the way we plan, so it would be a great idea to have things written down and to take notes. When I have a meeting with my bosses, even if its for something as little as a day off in the future, I make sure I write it down and have them sign it, because memory can fade and most of the time they forget. I to agree that this is the time to have a WA put into place, it is never to late, you can google Nanny work agreement and come up with some good ones, I also have a copy of the one I use for my family if you should want it. I think the more detail the better. If you want, you can contact me through yahoo, I'll give you my email address. babymonkeysnanny@yahoo.com.

bk said...

NYC mom-
I don't know what you are talking about. "Moderate" housework is never a part of a nanny job. Never. And when you hire and educated professional to nanny, she doesn't do housework at all.

You are probably interviewing people in that salary range because that is what you can afford. Yes, they are out there.

I live in Harrison, NY and the Jamaicans and Hispanics who are illegal all command over $600. Very rare to find one of those to work for under $600. But kudos to you and your bargain basement nanny search. I hope it works as well for your children as it does your pocket book.

It is my understanding that the average nanny salary is now around $650 per week in the NYC area. Upwards of course for more experience, education and skill.

lauren said...

Miss Dee,
My standards are quite high. This OP sounds like so much riff raff. Maybe it took her three years to realize that she wasn't really making $885 a week. Nannies salaries are rarely based on 40 hours (although my nannies is) but never a sixty hour work week. The people you are working for seem like ignorant opportunist. If you shape you up your attitude and clean up your mouth, perhaps you can reach out to a better class of family. Although I will warn you, a better class of family requires a better class of nanny. Good luck.

Anonymous said...

I am a Northern NJ nanny and right off the bat I must say there is no humor whatsoever in saying next time you would let the child be raped. And your snippy response to Paula only validates what she said.

A fact of life is...no matter how nice someone you work for is, if you allow yourself to be taken advantage of, you will be. This is true in the corporate world as well as domestic service. You should seriously consider sitting down, writing down your requests, which ones are absolutely non-negotiable as well as which ones make up a wish list as well as a list of things you are willing to do above and beyond childcare. I was hired to care for my charges and nothing else. However, I will, on occasion, do dishes and straighten up. I will usually do these extra chores on nights when the parents are working late as a nice little surprise for them. It is never asked or expected of me.

You make a decent wage, not a great one but I don't think you are grossly underpaid (let's face it, children are priceless and no one could afford to pay us what we are truly worth) 25 per week is not enough for gas, and the way to prove this is to fill your tank on the start of your week, set your tripometer, and see how many miles you actually put on your car for the family and how many times you must fill up. Present the evidence (gas receipts and millage totals along with the list)

Most imnportantly, be prepared to give notice and walk away if they can't meet your minimal requirements. You do sound very stressed and to the point of turning bitter and once that happens it will reflect in your work and the children will begin to suffer.

As for the father, it sound slike he may have a form of autism called Asperger's Syndrome. As a teacher, you should know what that is but briefly people who have it are usually extremely bright and focused (many of them become scientists, lawyers, engineers) but they have zero social graces or common sense. They also are extremely opinionated and tend to scoff at people who disagree with them. They are either extremely neat or extremely messy. If this is the case there is little to nothing you can do but deal with him as he is or again, walk away. He is unlikely to ever change.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

get real said...

What is it with saying a nanny should do absolutely no housework what so ever? Should she leave a trail of toys around and dirty lunch dishes on the table? Yes, families have maids, but not to follow the nanny around picking up behind her and the kids!! That is outrageous, unreasonable and entirely unrealistic. Get Over Yourself.

erics mom said...

Get real

I agree if you are a nanny or babysitter you should clean up after the kids. But I don't think its right for her to come in after a weekend, and Monday morning have to clean up their dishes from the weekend. Or empty the dishwasher. Or pick up all their trash. Common courtesy on their part would be to make sure the dishes are put away.

I worked for a family before that would do that. I would come in Monday morning and their would be toys all over. Dishes piled in the sink and dishwasher needed to be emptied. They wanted me to keep the house clean on the weekday, but on the weekend you could tell they didn't do any clean up themselves. I did it because I was young and stupid. And I don't mind going out of my way to help, but not always being taken advatage of.

Anonymous said...

OP, again

, I can't help you all that say I should clean up my mouth, and that I should be a better class of nanny. As far as I'm concerned, you don't know me, and as long as the children (my boss told me to do shrooms for God's sake, she doesn't care, but I still don't use bad language with her)I work for are happy, maintained, and not exposed to my so called "potty mouth", it doesn't matter, and what kind of people are you to care? I must secretly work for you. And again, you don't know me, therefore, it's not your place to judge my class. The family I work for makes over $600,000 a year, they are well educated, and classy (for the most part)... what the HEEEELLLLL does class have to do with my issues, and them? Come on, you guys offer good advice, but being high strung, and focusing on my bad language makes you look even worse. I'm sure your local complaint department is more than open to hearing your complaints about me and my "poor use of words",use them! Lol, funny.

To the folks that asked me to take notes and share, I will. I will have to come back to answer questions later, however, I'm still working.

I made a mistake, I don't work 60 hours a week, I work 55, and as for knowing what Aspergers disease is, I do, I had a student that has it ( My God, that was so difficult, but he was so bright, wonderfully intellegent).

As for saying I sound like I have no education because of the language I use, all I can do is smile and nod, for that's your opinion, and surely not mine. I think thats the largest crock of BULLSHIT, EVER! You think all of the teachers and nannies in the world don't curse? You've got to be fucking, shitting me, lol...chew on that, babes. Bad Language= no education, and no class. Exactly what world do you all reside in to believe such a thing. As someone said, it must be jealousy.

The mom is actually coming home early today so that we can cht, she was so nervous this morning when I told her we have to chat. BTW, I do have a WA, we're reviewing it and renegotiating tonight.

About the rape comment...please refer to your local complaint department. High strung people is just not my forte'.


About how I spoke to, Paula regarding my bad language. I do believe we're all adults and she can defend herself. Tell me what happens when someone tells you to go work at JC PENNY.

erics mom said...

Wow, I felt sorry for you (OP) at first. But you come off as a very nasty person, in your last rant. Maybe, its not all them......

Anonymous said...

erics mom, you seem to have a good head on your shoulders as well. what do you think about my responsibilities?

. I load the dishwasher, empty, and run it every other day.
. I take out the garbage all of the time...it can be overflowing and smelly, and I'm emptying it.
.The cats feeding bowl can be growing a forest, I'm the one that cleans it and feeds him. They don't care because I can come in in the morning and find the cat locked in the garage--a mistake, of course.
. I pick up the 7 year old from school, and I take her to 2 activities. I also help her with her homework.
. I grocery shop, and I cook 3 times a week. I'm also the diaper, and sock picker-upper, or gloves :).
. I take the 3 year old to 1 activity, but I've had him since he was born, we're always doing activities that requires travel.
. When they come home from vacation, they ask me to put the kids clothes away.
. I wash the kids clothes.
This house is run by way too many toys, too many. Toys that aren't even age appropriate. I clean them up, and little misc. items lying around.
. They don't sweep, so I sweep the floor.
. Sometime I feed the kids and give them baths on late nights.
.I'll be asked to cut down the forrest in the fridge (both of them).
.Sometimes I'll be asked to go shopping for particulars, likefor their parties.
.When an Ill relative (mentally) had to stay with them, he was there with me all day bugging me, they decided to up my pay the week she left, so I never saw it.

. Sometime I'll be asked to hang with the kids on the weekends, but can I watch a few others as well... I don't mind doing that, it's extra cash.
. The toys and clothes purging, and while doing all of this, being the main source of entertainment, love and education for my main 3 year old.
What do you think?

Keep in mind, I do most of these things because they don't or won't. As I said, I'm friends with their cleaning lady and she said it was like this way before I came. I can't sit her and watch muck overtake the house.

luvin every minuute of it said...

A professional nanny does NO housekeeping. That isn't to say she doesn't clean up after herself and help the children to clean up after themselves. The nanny is usually involved in the arrangement and storage of toys and the like.

Who are the bitter people who are so afraid that there are nannies out there who don't have to clean? Angry Sahms who want to make sure that the nanny does everything their pathetic selves do. Get a job, SAHMS. You bore me.

By the by, I am a professional nanny to two children of a professional athlete who is very well known. We have more than one housekeeper in the house and the meals are prepared for by a cook. I know this is really going to be hard for you to take, but I don't have to clean up after them in the kitchen. Ever.

If we play a game of connect 4, yes I put the game back in the box and put it back on the shelf. And you don't even want to know what I make!

Neither does NY Mom. (I am in the NYC area).

Anonymous said...

erics mom, don't feel sorry for me, I don't feel sorry for me.:) I can't sit back and read people lashing out on me based on specualtion, and guesses(ie, you sound uneducated, and you have no class, come on). So I purposely pushed buttons (by sounding ignorant and using profanity) to prove a point. However, I really can't care what they think, right? I just needed advice, and I'm thankful for it, truly....plus, trust me, my rant wasn't towards you. So take no offense.

Anonymous said...

luveneveryminute...I would love to know what you make...plus your arrangement is "special"...please tell, I want to be jealous, lol.

cali mom said...

So, "Asperger's Syndrome" is basically a clinical-sounding euphemism for asshole. Maybe it's really spelled Assburger's?

Anonymous said...

OP here,
Cali mom, that is def. the funniest thing I've heard all week, and yes, people with this syndrome do come across as assholes. They can't help it, though.

Cali mom, be careful, folks might think you're classless and uneducated for using profanity ;).

erics mom said...

my 5 year old nephew has Asperger's Syndrome. I don't think he comes across as an a---. Thats really offensive

Anonymous said...

OK, guys, I just looked over my WA from 3 years ago, and OOOO BOY, LOL. None of what I listed above as my responsibilities are written in. Boy, this was a tremendous learning experience.

nyc mom said...

I do hate getting drawn into these silly arguments, but I will respond once to comments about housework and salary. As I said in my original post, this board is clearly dominated by nannies and salary inflation is common. I don't blame them - if I had a way to affect the general belief of what I should be paid for my job by simply posting on a blog or message board I would do it do. Kudos to them for being so resourceful.

But, BK mom, my numbers are not inaccurate and since I pay over $1200 a week in childcare (due to both of us working 60+ hrs and travel and thus needing to employ more than one person), I can guarantee you it is an not an issue of what I can afford. I do believe from speaking with friends in Westchester area and NYC, that salaries tend to be higher in your area because there are a smaller number of nannies living and/or willing to commute to that area. Again, I base this on real world, very recent experience.

After our nanny of 5 years completed school and moved on six months ago, we went through an extensive nanny search. I interviewed approx seven nannies. Five were professional nannies, coming from a minimum of two years with their prior employer (incidentally one in Scarsdale, one in Rye). I was offering $700 weekly for 45-50hrs. The two in Westchester county were getting $550 and $600 after 2 and 3 yrs, respectively, with their prior employers/11 and 12 hr days/ and, yes, moderate housework. Of the seven, I was the best offer for 100% of them. Obviously there were other factors involved for both us and the nanny in finding a good match, but I can say with certainty that in NYC my numbers are accurate. Of course, you will always be able to find nannies making (deservedly and not) much more or less, but these are exceptions. As an aside, I also considered hiring two part-time people and the asking price was almost universally $13-15/hour. I had one woman ask for $18, but she was the least experienced and certainly could not command that number (tho there were a couple of people I would have considered at a higher range had I decided to hire a part-time nanny).

As for housework, I have *never* had a nanny I interviewed or hired refuse to do what I call moderate housework (others may call it light). When I was naive to the nanny/employer hiring, I did not even know what to ask for and our nanny did it automatically. Now I always specify it in the work agreement and no one, including the career nannies above, has even raised an eyebrow. Again, many of the wealthy families I know in the Westchester area choose to have a live-in housekeeper so nanny does have less basic pick-up duties, but this is rare in NYC. I also worked my way through college doing 15+hrs a week of childcare and *always* assumed I would keep the home in order. I would define light/moderate housework as folllows: filling/running/emptying dishwasher; taking out the full garbage and emptying smaller garabage cans around the home; wiping down kitchen counters and tables that are used (while nannny is there) for meal prep/meals for nanny and kids; returning everything to its proper place aka keeping house organized as it is when she arrives. Just about the only extra I consider debatable for housekeeping is making our bed in the home - some nannies I've had have done this and some have not. Since we use a simple down comforter you shake once and place it's not a big deal and takes approx 30 seconds. It's an extra I appreciate (since my husband gets up later than me and leaves ours undone), but do not expect. If I had a nanny who was unwilling to do the above housework (besides the bed), I would consider it a deal breaker. They are such basic things and many are directly generated by the children. Would you really be okay with your nanny leaving a sink full of dirty dishes, overflowing garbage can, or crumbs from the kids lunch all over the dining table? I highly doubt it. Of course as some above have mentioned, it is an issue of basic courtesy. She arrives to a home that is organized and clean and I expect her to leave it that way. I would not expect her to arrive on Monday to a disaster and clean it up. For things like dishwasher and garbage, I always run the dishwasher overnight and she often empties it in the morning. But if it fills up and she runs it before leaving, I empty it before going to bed.

To answer OP's question above about sounding educated I say the following as a general theme in a post (not trying to nitpick for the occasional error): good grammar, correct spelling, no use of profanities, organized, with a coherent thought process and a goal in mind.

I also wholeheartedly agree with everyone who said the joke about child rape is completely unacceptable, ever, even in anger. I honestly think it's a bit of a red flag into your personality that you would both have that thought and type it. I've been plenty angry with many people in my life, but wishing or imagining a child rape upon their children has never once crossed my mind (nor that of most posters here I'm guessing).

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your outlook and general opinion, nyc mom.
I would never wish rape on a child, either. Which is why I didn't wish rape on the child I was reffering to.
Also, thanks for answering my education question. I don't feel the need to be so particular in conveying a message everyone clearly understood (except for the rape comment)on a message board. I just don't, and I'm sorry to all of you that feel the need to be so particular.

I promise, the next time I vent,I'll be sure to use my "teacher skills".

chick said...

OP/Anon/4:12 pm

I've been a nanny for nearly 15 years. I do what I consider light housekeeping equal to or greater than what you listed, and it just doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. I care for a 3yo and 1 yo BTW, so I have more "high maintenance" charges simply because of their ages. I am a full charge nanny.

Here's MY list:

-Dishwasher at least 1x per day
-Garbage out when needed, usually 1x/day
-Keep kitchen, kids rooms, and living areas relatively tidy
-ALL kids laundry
-"Emergency" pet care, if no one has left food out, I feed the animals
-All grocery shopping, and cook all meals for kids and I when I am working.
-Pack and UN-Pack for trips
-ALL clothes and toy purging/sorting/storage
-Minimum 95% of all purchasing for kids: Clothes/diapers/formula/etc. If the kids need it, I buy it for them (Obviously, I am not spending MY money!)
-ALL kids doctor apointments
-Research things such as preschools/activities and present info to parents
-2 to 3 kid centered activities per week, generally lasting 3 hours each
-Ballet class for the 3 yo
-Playing, loving, educating, and enjoying the kids
-I'm sure there are more little things, but I can't remember them at the moment!

The point is, I do all this stuff because I consider helping the house run smoothly to be a part of my job. And I am a bit of a neat freak, so I would rather do a "housekeeping" chore than stare at dirty dishes or smelly trash all day.

Plus, I really truly LIKE my employers and my job. Maybe that's the main issue for you - your (understandable) dislike of the dad makes you feel resentful of everything.

I think my point here was that you aren't exactly overworked, but make of this post what you will!

maggie said...

nyc mom,
The very notion of asking the nanny to make our bed is revolting to me. Why would you ever wish for such a thing? Have you no boundaries? The nanny who came to work for me came from a house where there was a housekeeper so she only had to do pick up-after playing duties. For my job, I needed her to make my daughter's bed and do the child's laundry, make her lunch and clean up after her. I don't understand what emptying a dishwasher or taking out family garbage has to do with being a nanny. I recognize that those are housekeeping tasks and although I only have a housecleaner twice per week, whatever left over housekeeping needs to be done, either my husband and I will take care of it. Our nanny will sometimes go above and beyond, but I don't expect it. And I don't think this board is dominated by nannies. I do think the nannies who come to this board, excepting OP op of this post do for the most part tend to be professional nanies. Because of that, their salaries are obviously higher. My sister pays her nanny $1300. a week for two children, she lives in Greenwich and doesn't bat an eye.
For you, you suggest it isn't about having enough money as you claim that isn't the problem. Perhaps you just want more for your money. Who doesn't? I just don't think that mentality should extend to the way you pick and pay your nannies. I'm no sap, I'm tough as nails but I try to be fair with how I pay me nanny. Of all the people I rely on for transportation, hair, trainers, etc., who should be rewarded more richly than the person who takes care of my precious girl?

MissDee said...

Ummmm people, let's get back to the subject that the OP is unhappy in her current situation and stop arguing over who has what responsibilities.

Lauren: Was yer comment directed to me?

Anonymous said...

the salaries are not inflated here. park sitting benches, jamaicans, non english speaking nannies and the like- they just aren't represented here. like, duh.

mm said...

but the park sitting benches all make $12 an hour cash. or so i hear. that's a hefty paycheck.

mm said...

Chick,
I think it is disgusting that you buy all of the things for the kids and take them to all of their doctor's appointments. What do they even need their "parents" for?

Anonymous said...

NYC Mom hit on one of the key point I wanted to make when I first read your post (and took the heat for it). Anecdotal evidence on salary, bonuses and job responsibilities can be very misleading. OP, you are doing a disservice to yourself by benchmarking off of the numbers posted here or on other boards. There are always those who make more or less than you no matter what field you are in. For nannies, that is particularly true because of the variability of benefits, hours, on/off the books, and duties. The INA nanny salary survey is a more scientific approach than these random postings and reflects a large sampling of responses. You can find the results on the International Nanny Association site. You'll see the salaries are in line with the numbers NYC Mom cites. These numbers are also consistent with my experience as an employer in Westchester County who have spoken to many many neighbors about what is appropriate salary, benefits, etc., but don't take my word for it, look at the survey results.

Unfortunately, there are plenty of cases where very good nannies are not paid what they are worth and where sub-par nannies that care very little for their charges and do not treat them well at all are well compensated in my neighborhood. I've seen too many people settle for less than they deserve on either side of the nanny/family relationship either because they believe they can't do better anyway or because the relationship is so emotionally charged.

My other reaction when reading your post is that usually when a family does not give a good bonus, it means that they are not completely thrilled with their nanny and are not particularly worried about losing them. I think you should leave this family, take some time off and then find a family that appreciates you. You are well qualified and should be earning at the top range of salary and benefits, but you are resentful, bitter and angry towards your current employers. Realize you are burnt out from working in this stressful environment. You don't want to have your current bad experience taint your approach to a new family, or affect how you come across on an interview. I know that if I was interviewing a highly qualified candidate, but detected any of the underlying anger that comes across in your post (justified as it may be), I would pass.

On your updated comments, my reaction is just because the parents seemed receptive to changing your arrangements now, don't count on things changing. People are who they are and in the type of job you are in they can't hide who they are. There are plenty of good nanny employers out there who respect and value their nannies, and the family you have definitely are not one of them. I would not be surprised to hear that after all your discussions they were just leading you on while they searched for your replacement. Give adequate notice (don't let their bad behavior force you to be less than the professional you are), but you need to find a happier situation for yourself. When it comes to high quality nannies (not people who call themselves nannies who shouldn't), it is very much a nannies market.

chick said...

mm/6:03 pm

Out of everything I do, those 2 things upset you? Huh. Well, OK, I'll give this a shot.

Buying things does not make one a good parent. Going to Doctor appointments also does not make one a good parent.

I was going to scathingly defend my employers against your accusatory words, but I figure it's pointless to do so. You seem to have made up your mind that "good parents" buy all the items their children need and attend all medical appointments.

If that is your definition of good parenting, so be it. MY definition is a little more broad. Ready? Here goes...

A good parent is there no matter what. They deal with tantrums, tears, traumas, and tragedies. They love their kids unconditionally, even if they hate getting up in the middle of the night to put a little "owl" back to bed. They accept help with their chidren when they need it, and they prioritize and organize their lives to make the most of the time they have with their kids. They may choose to delegate some tasks, or they may choose to do everything themselves.

Good parents SAH, WAH, WOH, and employ all manners of childcare systems, based on what works for THEIR family. They don't judge other people too harshly based on their choices, and they teach their children to avoid leaping to judgement as well.

Good parents come in all shapes, sizes, and colors, and from all sorts of backgrounds, but the one thing I believe they all have in common is the desire to provide the best possible care for their kids. Everyone's entitled to their own definition of "best possible care", but I know my employers have found what works for them, and their kids are pretty darn happy too.

Anonymous said...

Maggie, you sound like a very judgmental sanctimommy and exactly what most women strive NOT to be. Some of us WOHM (yeah, yeah I'm sure you "work" too) and thus need our nannies to - gasp - empty the garbage if it is full. I agree with NYC Mom and have never had a nanny not do this or the dishwasher. You must be a SAHM or have a very flexible job that allows you to run home in the middle of the day if the gabage can is full. And I don't think making a bed is a big deal especially since NYC Mom made it clear it was not something she really cared about and greatly appreciated as an extra. But you know what? Even if she did ask the nanny to do that, if she specified it in the work agreement, paid the nanny fairly, and the nanny agreed then who is unhapppy (except you, of course)? I think the very fact that you reference your hair stylist and trainer in your comment tell us a lot about you. I WOHM, pay my nanny well, and don't think I've ever considered a trainer or getting my hair done to be such a big part of my life that I even factor them in when deciding what I can afford to pay our nanny.

Chick, you sound amazing and my nanny of 4 years does pretty much exactly what you list. Though I do all but emergency doctor appointments. Maggie you should take a look at Chick's list b/c this is what a high quality professional nanny does when they are paid fairly and have a good relationship with their employer. Perhaps you are so bitter because you were not smart enough to establish a work agreement or hire such a great, resourceful nanny as some of did. So now you want to convince yourself that your non-dishwasher emptying nanny is the norm. Good luck with that!

I'm also in New York and if Maggie's sister in CT wants to pay $1300 weekly, congrats to her, but if she "doesn't bat an eye" then she is either stupid or much wealthier than 99.9% of the wealthy people I know in NY.

Anonymous said...

They don't care about you OP, what they care about is keeping a nanny who saves them a LOT of $. I HIGHLY suggest you look for another job and schedule some time off to do interviews. Tell them you need a letter of reccomendation to get into a new school program so you have your ref if you need it. Then when you find a new job, give these people 2 weeks notice and get the hell out of there. I suggest you have a contract with your next family and set boundries. Also look for a family you will get along with, spend time with them on the weekend before you acceot the position. Good luck!

Anonymous said...

Thanks all.

Chick, why doesn't the parents do the daycare research, and why don't they take their child to the Dr.? Just wondering.

Anonymous said...

OP, here.

I had a long talk with my boss. I trust her, she explained everything to me perfectly, and now that she kows how I feel, I will see a change, if I don't, hey, we'll have another talk. BTW, do the families with nannies pay their nannies when they go on vacation? If you would like details, please let me know. I think I've put enough personal info. on here.

cali mom said...

Eric's mom, obviously there is a lot more to Asberger's than what was mentioned here. A 5 year old is still developing their social skills and can not really ever be considered an asshole because...they are only 5 years old.

7:31, do you seriously sit there at your job and bite your nails and freak out at the thought that your trash can at home might be almost full? Like you or your spouse can't just put it out when you come home from work??? Oh that's right, no need to because you know you're getting your money's worth out of your nanny. And why can't your husband simply pull up the blanket when he gets out of bed? You have to PAY someone to do that for you as well? Do you pay someone to tear off as many squares as you feel you need when you're done using the toilet?

Anonymous said...

I'm a professional nanny and I take personal offence at the comments by Maggie. As part of my job (which I agreed to when I was hired) I make the parents bed and tidy up their room daily. Does this make me "revolting" or mean I have no self respect? Because that's how you make it sound.

It sounds like you have a great babysitter, but not a professional nanny. I was a babysitter when I was 15 and I know the difference. As a babysitter, I would show up, play with the kids, maybe feed them, then put them to bed and watch tv. It was no big deal and not that hard. Now I am a professional nanny and it is a very different job. I work very hard and get paid well. But that's because a true nanny's job involves a lot more than babysitting your kids. A good nanny makes the house a home, keeps the place in order, does chores, and runs errands. Sure the exact duties may be different from one nanny to the next, but it is a heck of a lot more than just babysitting. I make beds and tidy the mom and dad's room, but I don't ever take out a vacuum. I never cook for the parents, but I do lots of grocery shopping. I know other nannies who do the opposite to me, but the thing in common is that we knew the job description when we were hired and agreed to it. It's pretty insulting and condescending of you to say that just because I make the beds as part of my job that my employers (who are wonderful!) are revolting. You are so clearly clueless about professional nannies, but I'm glad you are happy with your babysitter. I just hope you aren't paying her nanny wages because that's insulting to those of us who do the work of a real nanny.

I also think Chick did a wonderful job of giving a summary of nanny duties, though also think 7:18 made a good point that you can't compare the specifics of any one job to another. OPs job sounds like there are a ton of problems, but the biggest (which she said at 4:33) is that she never agreed to MOST of the things she is now being expected to do. That is the problem here, not the specific things she is being asked to do. OP, it does sound like you are being taken advantage of. I agree with 7:18, you should leave. Do it gracefully, but get out of there. Find a family that appreciates you and is a good match and write everything out up front! Good luck.

Anonymous said...

Everytime Maggie posts, she has to piss off at least a dozen people.

To luvin every minuute of it - I think your an ass.

As for the Op, bawdy language and all - I think you'd be a blast to have a beer with!
Cheers, honey!

Anonymous said...

OP, here.
Thanks 9:44, it's good to know people exist with senses of humor and understand that humans--not robots--exist.

And since I'm off the clock, I'm a freakin' blast to have fun with. I wish you were here, :).

k said...

I love how employers such as those complaining on here always cite low paying employers as justification and they always want to pretend that high paying employers don't exist. Ludicrous.
We exist. And while my nanny may pitch in here and there and mop up spilled juice or empty the garbage, the very thought of her handling my bedding or personal laundry is disturbing. I have boundaries and respect for not only my nanny, but for my personal space.

ct nanny said...

Cali Mom continues to rock. Any employer who has their nanny coming in to their bedroom to make their bed is lazier than fuck, lacking in class or just an opportunistic slug.

MAKING YOUR EMPLOYER's BED and dealing with their drooled on pillowcases and "wet spots" is nothing to do with being a nanny.

And even if I was paid to do it, I wouldn't touch that shit without three pairs of latex and one pair of yellow kitchen gloves. I'm a nanny in New Canaan with 2 years experience, 1 year of college and my friends tend to be about the same skill level and none of us are running around messing with our employer's bedding. That's pretty sick if you ask me. If I had an employer that asked me such stuff (and why stop there, why not have the nanny trim the hedges and clean the ducts?), I would certainly photograph their nasty ass sheets and everything in their nightstand. I certainly wouldn't respect someone who carried on like that. Make your own damn bed or hire a housekeeper, you freaks. Or maybe you just get off on having the nanny see that your husband can still get it up for your wrinkled old flabby ass?

OP said...

10:33, that was just too funny, but be warned. The high strungs, here, will think you're uneducated and a classless nanny for cursing. Be mindful of your words--even while you're not on the clock. Oh, and they can't take jokes, either.
You've been warned, lol.

Anonymous said...

ct nanny
YOU ARE A NUT! Are you serious? Or are you trying to get a rise out of us by making us believe you ACTUALLY watch kids??? I hope to God that your charges mom finds out what a screwball, low-life you are. Was there no way to get your point across without being so crass??? You are disgusting!!!

Anonymous said...

wet-spots? you are gross!!

Anonymous said...

Op
I think ct nanny is in a different class of her own. I wouldn't compare myself to her if I were you.

Anonymous said...

CT nanny, I hope you are not truly a nanny because the thought of you watching someones children is worrisome. I think its funny that you think it would be so disgusting if you ever made a bed, but for a housekeeper to do it - oh, that's fine because you are so above them.

Anonymous said...

Why are you coming down so hard on NYC Mom. She clearly states that the nanny straightening out her bed is an extra she does not expect. Personally, I value my privacy and leave my bedroom door closed, but my nanny does do plenty of little extras we do not ask for but make our lives easier. Valuing these extras does not make me or NYC Mom bad employers.

I gladly accept the extras my nanny does for us--but don't expect them--and make sure she knows they are recognized as above and beyond and that we appreciate her. From little things like replacing empty toilet paper or paper towel rolls, and yes, emptying garbage cans when full, to big things like putting together bags of old toys for donation for charity as children outgrow them (she even made a game of it for the kids so I came home to much less cluttered playroom, and the kids looking forward to passing on their old things to new owners--I've always had to sneak things off to charity at night to get the kids to part with them). She even sewed a hem for a favorite outfit after my daughter tore it (I HATE sewing). I would have done these things myself if my nanny hadn't taken it on herself to do them, but the fact that she does makes her an exceptional nanny. Not only is she an attentive loving caregiver--she looks around and figures out if there is anything she can do to make it easier for my husband and I to devote our free time when we come home from work to the kids rather than taking care of household tasks. I am a very lucky nanny employer.

Anonymous said...

I worked in the past for a terrible family. One time I came in on a Monday morning. First thing out of their mouthes were "oh Zachy pee pee in his bed again". So your going to have to change the sheets again and wash them. And they were laughing like it was a joke.

I wanted to say to them go f- yourselves, and clean the bed yourself. Needless, to say I was at that job for less than six months. But not just for that, it was a very abusive house. And thats why I vowed never ever work in the childcare field.
And they never wanted to pay tax for me either. I declared what I made. And I made sure I put down who I worked for and their address and phone numbers. After I quit. These were lawyers mind you.

Anonymous said...

"7:31, do you seriously sit there at your job and bite your nails and freak out at the thought that your trash can at home might be almost full? Like you or your spouse can't just put it out when you come home from work???..." LOL-This is spot on Cali Mom, and you actually had me laughing (literally) out loud, with visions of 7:31 chomping her nails to the wick as she franticly raced home through traffic to take out her *heaven forbid* overflowing trash can!

On a side note, I am a professional nanny and I don't do house work-period. I went to school for four years and studied Education and Childhood development, not house keeping. I will put all toys/games/crafts away after using them, I will clean up any mess my charge makes, I will wipe down the table/stove etc after feeding my charge and I will put his dishes into the dishwasher. However, I am not required to run the dishwasher, empty it, take out the trash, do laundry, or any other task related to the up keep of my "families" house. My focus is on my charge, not cleaning the house. I love children, not cleaning...if I had half the passion for cleaning as I do for children I would have become a house keeper or maid. I can't imagine how much valuable time is taken out from some "nannies" who actually have to do these menial tasks! I am being paid to give one on one quality care to my charge, and that is what I provide. I didn't go to College for four years to make your bed, or touch your (nasty, might I add) garbage. I went to enrich your child's mind, to nurture them, and help them grow into a healthy, successful adult.

Anonymous said...

Cali Mom: I think you missed my point at 7:31pm. It's called sarcasm. But, to answer your question, yes it would worry me if I was at work and thought the trash in my apartment was routinely overflowing onto the floor because I had a nanny who refused to empty it. This is because I have a young baby who loves to put things in his mouth and I live in NYC where too much garbage = roaches.

Having seen some of your old posts, I'm sure you took offense at my SAHM reference and felt the need to lash out. I assure you I have no strong feelings on SAHM vs WOHM - whatever works for each and theirs. I do, however, have strong feelings about people like Maggie who judge the employer/employee work agreements of others. And those who pick and choose a single comment from an entire post and abstract it to represent the entire character of the individual posting. As 9:44 said, Maggie always angers people. It's a special skill of hers.

9:44 said...

1:39
Aside from cali moms tacky attempt at humor (normally I love your posts, but that one shocked me) -
Your post 1:39, makes the perfect argument on Nanny housework: to clean or not to clean. Personally, I believe that other than duties directly aimed at picking up after the kids - it shouldn't be done, making up a bed, or otherwise.

brookline nanny said...

um a housekeeper isn't beneath a nanny, per say-it's just that housekeeping is part of the housekeeper's job that is why she is a housekeeper and why she should make the bed. And if you don't have a housekeeper, you should make the bed yourself. I once went to get my charge out of his parent's bed as he had slept there all night and there were lots of little stains and little curly hairs. I about vomitted then and there. And there was an odor waifting off the sheets, too. And nanny who makes their employer's bed is a joke and any employer who asks, expects or allows her nanny to make her bed is a jerk.

paul the intern said...

RE: Maggie's sister & Greenwich nannies.
One word. Hedgefunds.
Until they crash and burn, there will be a set of people who can shell out boo yah dollars for their nanny. Nannies, enjoy it when you can. Hedgefunds are bad for the economy and ruining America and they won't be around for long. I'm not saying you don't deserve your $, in any field, you should get as much for your service as you can, but save your $.

marypoppin'pills♣ said...

Can I just say here and now - Enough of the stinky, nasty, stained sheets commentary? I've almost wretched a half dozen times. I don't know how all of you ladies can stomach this stuff.
And nobody is saying one profession is better than the other (nanny vs. housekeeper), it's all about the pride you take in your job.

Anonymous said...

Cali mom, my 8 year old daughter has Aspergers, its a form of Autism, you insensitive bitch, If one of your grandkids is born with Asperger's or autism touches your family in some way, then you maybe will get a clue. You are the asshole here.

And BTW, undiagnosed forms of Autism are extremly difficult to treat in adults and most are unaware they even have it. They just go through life looking like obnoxious, insensitive, know-it-alls...Maybe Cali Mom should be evaluated????

Cali Mom should try picking up a book and reading up on a subject before running her big mouth and letting everyone know how ignorant she is.

Anonymous said...

I am the nanny who posted I do no housework. The children I care for are all old enough to pick up after themselves and I enforce that. Of course, If I work late, and prepare dinner, I will do our dishes, that goes without saying but the parents I work for never require me to do so! I also sit for several families on a rotating basis and if the child is 3 years old or older, they are very capable of putting away the toys they take out, unless it's something they can't reach. Not teaching children to pick up after themselves is half the reason why the kids today are spoiled, lazy brats. AND I make my ways and methods very clear to the parents who hire me and they love it!

Anonymous said...

10:33
I had a feeling cali moms post was going to highly insult someone. I understand this is a very sensitive issue, and I also know someone with Aspergers.
I feel for you - but note that cali mom probably had a momentary lapse of reason when she made that tacky joke, she's normally o.k.
I wish you well, and hope your daughter is doing fine.

Anonymous said...

Op, here. 10:33...I bet your daughter is so bright, isn't she? she just has to build her social skills, correct?

Anonymous said...

I make my bed myself and expect to do so as long as I am able to make it. But I am a bit worried about nannies who think that taking the trash out or cleaning up is beneath their duties. Maybe they work for super-rich families where somebody else is in charge of that, but even so, what kind of an example does that set for the children? Also, to suggest out of the blue that somebody's rudeness is due to a very specific condition is purely ludicrous.

Anonymous said...

Are you seriously saying you are worried about the example that might be set by a nanny that doesn't take out garbage? You'll have enough problems already explaining to the children that you are their parent, even though you outsourced their care. And if you can outsource the care of your kids, you can damn sure outsource the care of your beloved fucking garbage.

Anonymous said...

OP asked if nannies are paid when employers go on THEIR vacations.

I have been a nanny for over 8 years, and know many nannies all over the US. They are all paid when their employers go away.

Point being, if you, as the nanny are ready, able and willing to come to work- and the parents prevent you from being able to do your job- meaning they take the kids away- that is no fault of your own- espcially since you have no control over what days they decide to take vacation.

If they expect your services year round- they need to pay you year round.

When my bosses go away- I have volunteered to come check the house, do extra things that are difficult to accomplish when the kids are there- such as do a complete clean out/organization of their toys and closets.

As for nannies making employers beds- I have never been asked to do that- I make it clear I am a nanny/not a maid/housecleaner or chef. But once you know the family for a few years- it personally does not bother me to do some things that are above and beyond, just to be nice to them, and I don't mind doing little extra things for them every now and then.
Just goes to show- each nanny/family realtionship is unique.
And the families/nannnies set the boundaries.

Anonymous said...

Yes. If you are a salaried employee, you get paid regardless of whether or not your services are needed. However, we do try and coordinate her two weeks vacation time with ours so that we are covered when she wants to go away. We discuss it at the beginning of the year and then try and set up time that works for all of us. If I take unexpected time off, I pay my nanny even though she does not work those days. Afterall, I get paid when I'm on vacation or if it's slow at the office (like between xmas and New Years). I hired a professional nanny and she is treated as a professional, just as I am by my employer.

Anonymous said...

I am a nanny and get paid 2 weeks vacation. One week of my choosing and one week when they go away. If they don't go away that year (and the family I work for does not go away every year) then I get to pick the two weeks.

Anonymous said...

OP, my daughter is an A+ student and remembers everything she is told facts wise. She has a 100 average in spelling because if she sees the word once, she can spell it backwards and forwards. But if you are wearing a dress she doesn't like, or get a haircut, she will tell you flat out. "That dress is ugly " "your hair looks terrible." She once went up to a complete stranger- a woman-and asked her why she looked like a man. This is the problem with Aspergers kids and people, They are usually brilliant, but they lack social skills and common sense. My daughter still has to be reminded to flush the toilet after she goes.

I am sorry I flipped out on Cali Mom the way I did. I apologise and it is a very sensitive subject if one lives with it everyday. Once, my daughter was having a melt down in Nordstroms, and a woman said "See that's why I won't have kids-who needs a brat like that?" I thought I had developed a thicker skin but apparently I need more work in the support group LOL.

And I only suggested AS because the father sounds very much like an aquaintance of mine who acted very much the same way. When my daughter was going through her issues, he contacted me and asked for more information because a mutual friend had been talking about my daughter to him and he began to wonder about himself. I gave him some books to read, he went for an eval and long story short, he had it as well. That was several years ago and he has since put his life on track and even got married. He was in his late 30's and had never been able to make a relationship work because he seemed so insensitive. I don't believe the rise in autism is due so much to it increasing so greatly but more that we are able to recogize the more subtle forms of it. I also think it is a bit misdiagnosed or overdiagnosed.

Anonymous said...

3:17, do you get bonuses?

Anonymous said...

OP, here.
3:29, I've def. had my share of working with a child with AS. The child amazed me--oh, the things he knew. However, the child has to attend a special school because he's difficult to work with and has no friends. Did your daughter have trouble learning to use the bathroom, and how old was she when she was potty trained? Was she a messy eater?
While I'm fully aware that AS exist, it's of course, not my area of expertise. Is it hereditary?

Anonymous said...

3:29
I don't think you should feel bad. You were insulted.
You are doing a great job educating some people on here. Your story is very interesting and we'd love to hear more about your little girl, if that's o.k.?

Anonymous said...

Find a better job and quit this one. You're entitled to overtime after 40 hours a week. However, you are also obligated to pay income, social security, and Medicare tax on your income.

Consider getting a legitimate job that puts you "on the books" and will pay for health coverage. After three years of experience you should be able to get a job that includes benefits and paid time off. Maybe you could work for a family that has even more money.

Anonymous said...

I've heard versions of the advice above before on this site--just go to a family that makes more money. From what I've seen and heard, it's wrong. I live in a very affluent Westchester village and I can tell you that many of the richest families here (well into seven figure income and often with SAHM and or SAHD) are cheap and rude to their nannies while families of more modest means (still well off--generally mid to high six figures and often with both parents working) pay more and treat their nannies with much more respect. I was at a holiday party recenly where a very wealthy Mom was bragging about how she doesn't have to give her nanny of three years anything more than a gift certificate at Christmas because after all she has the benefit of living in her wonderful home. This is not only acceptable, but common among the wealthiest families.

mom said...

Wow! You girls have been busy.

Several thoughts:

First, while I have immensely enjoyed the lengthy discussion on whether a nanny should or should not take out the heaping mounds of rotting waste in people's trashcans before they get home from work, I can't help wondering how all of these many trash cans come to be piled to overflowing with crud that has time to fester and rot so thoroughally during the course of an ordinary workday. Sounds more to me like a passive aggressive game of "chicken" (but with trash) to me. People, if you would simply empty your own garbage at the end of the evening, or before leaving for work in the morning, it would likely not reach biohazard proportions before you make it home from work at the end of the day. It's such a small and silly thing...and definitely NOT worth having a standoff with your otherwise good nanny over.

Next, I took Cali Mom's comment about Aspergers to be more defensive than offensive towards Asperger's patients. I kind of thought she might have been offended that that diagnosis was placed on such a horrible sounding man, when there are plenty of people who suffer from Autism who are not at all unkind. I personally know three teenagers with Aspergers and, while they do lack certain "filters" when they speak sometimes, none of them is rude or condescending, as this man sounds. Perhaps he does have it...as I understand there are so many different behaviors that may be associated with this...but my first reaction when I heard the comparison was also to be defensive. Just a thought....

And OP, I have to sort of agree with Eric's mom. I think that the language we choose to use tells a lot about our judgment, intelligence and, yes, whether we have any class. Especially when you come to a blog where your only chance to make an impression one way or the other is by the words you choose. (This goes to judgment.) Your initial choice to use some profanity was perhaps excusable...could have been overlooked as some overzealous venting perhaps. But your vulgar and overly hostile responses to those who objected were not only unpleasant and unnecessary, but took away any doubt as to your general level of class. While it is true that this does not necessarily indicate your level of education, it does indirectly point to your probable level of intelligence, because most people who posess a reasonable level of intelligence, and bother to become highly educated, also learn along the way that one's personal conduct (language included...in fact, especially) reflects directly upon the way the world is going to perceive them...and therefore likely also upon the success they can expect to achieve in any profession. Therefore it generally follows that highly educated people of exceptional intelligence who display both class and good judgment do not usually use the kind of language you have here. Yes, you do have the right to speak as you wish. Go ahead. But don't blame others for making the rather obvious assumptions that generally go along with that behavior about you. If your language, and the impression it leaves about you, do not accurately reflect you, or the person you wish to appear to be, you might want to think about making some changes. Just saying....(Oh, and you might want to steer clear of insisting repeatedly that "we don't know you." Most offensively of all, it might cause people to confuse you with, or at minimum lump you in the same category with "she who..."

Anonymous said...

OP, my daughter was not fully potty trained until she was almost 5 years old, yet she was begging for a real microscope at 4. She was bounced from school to school because no one knew what to do with her. They wanted me to put her on aderal (sp?) a drug similar to Ritalin and just let her be classified ADHD but I knew it was something else. She would rock, blink her eyes rapidly and flap her hands, none of these behaviors indicate ADHD but it was an easy out for the district had I accepted it. She would also throw tantrums that would last for 4 hours or more (literally until she wore herself and us out) It's still a struggle but we finally found the right school and therapists and we are seeing improvemnet. When she is doing well and all is going right in her life she is an angel. Sweet, kind and caring. But if it's one of those days, or things go wrong for her we all have to dive for cover!

Anonymous said...

Shall not be named?
Are you talking about me again mom?
Are you bored?

cali mom said...

Mom, I suppose my comment about AS was due to the brief description given of it in relation to the OP's employer who truly just sounds like a pr*ck, AND the way that various other unacceptable behaviors have lately been attributed to "this or that" syndrome. I forget what name was assigned to it but not too long ago I read about some Syndrome someone has put a name to that supposedly "explains" why someone experiences road rage and decides to throw someone's puppy into oncoming freeway traffic or shoots someone to death because the other driver didn't yield the right of way, or cut them off, or whatever. If that's the "symptom" of that particular "disorder", I think we can all agree it's just a fancy way of explaining that the person is an asshole with a short temper.

OBVIOUSLY, a young child is still developing their social skills and cannot reasonably be compared to the pr*ck that OP works for, or some other pr*ck with road rage. Also obviously, there is presumably much more to AS than what was mentioned here. And my comment was not meant personally towards anyone who is personally affected by the disorder. Especially any *child* who is disadvantaged by it.

As for any employer of a nanny who expects the nanny to take out their garbage, do their laundry, or change any sheets, that's like having your secretary pick up a birthday present for your wife, or your refills at the pharmacy, or walk your dog for you on the clock..

fg said...

Sounds like the job from Hell. Why would anyone stay in circumstances like these. There comes a time when we must think of what is best for us as no one else will.

Anonymous said...

Mom, my bosses husband, "the prick", holds a PHD in a rare science field, and is a top proffesor at an extremely prestigious school. He comes from a family of extremely prestigious and succesful proffesors, as well. He has graduated from top Universities, hold high awards, is held in high regards, and appears on many scientific TV shows. etc.. I would say he's overly-well educated, one of the brightest people I've EVER encountered in my life He's also a "prick" that uses profanity like a sailor on a daily basis. Sometimes he speaks and vents more candidly than I did in my original vent. What makes him more classy than I am. Would you agree that he's well educated?

Although your most recent post was well written, it's matter of opinion and unfortunate jugement. Never judge the person on the other end of your cyber conversation by the words they type. You must remember, you all are the makers of the charecters. So just because your mind reads "Oh, this is an uneducated nanny because her message board comment was loaded with profanity and grammar mistakes.", doesn't mean it rings true.

That's why they're called generalizations.

Anonymous said...

OP, I am generally in sympathy for you, though I believe the only solution to your problem is to leave. Your boss, in particular, is not going to change.

However, you are dead wrong when you say "Never judge the person on the other end of your cyber conversation by the words they type". You are plenty bright enough to realize that this is the ONLY way any participant in a cyber conversation can be judged -- or analyzed, or responded to. It's all your reader has.

You reveal more than you know when you write. Mom 10:46's suggestion that you think about making some changes is a good one. You lack some essential maturity, but you're smart and quick enough to make the step up -- I hope you do. That would make you an even more awesome nanny, and an even more awesome person. And it will open doors for you which your current habits will keep closed. Staying in this toxic situation is probably a very bad thing for you, all around.

Of course your employer has no class. Just education (or just knowledge) doesn't automatically confer class. Neither does world-fame. Behavior does. He hasn't got it, and never will. You don't have it, but you can. That makes you tons better than he -- but only if you step up. You can learn in this area; he's clearly hopeless.

Anonymous said...

Ok, now that Cali Mom has explained herself in detail, I realize, she really is ignorant on this matter and I mean that in the truest sense of the word.

I forgot to answer OPs question about autism, including AS, being hereditary. The latest studies do seeem to show it's genetic.

Kids with AS grow up to be adults with AS. Autism, in any form, never goes away and no one who has it outgrows it. All the victims of it can do is learn to live with and control it as best they can. Those diagnosed with it young and who get all the right help may do better but there is always the potential that one day, they will slip up and yes, the consequences can result in bodily injury to themselves and/or others.

One expert psycologist described AS in particular as affecting those who have it as they have to put up with other people's stupidity on a daily basis. In other words, I may ask my daughter how she did on her math test today in school and she will respond annoyed or not at all. I may then ask about her spelling and science test and finally, she can't take any more and will tell me to shut up. When I ask what's with the attitude she will respond that I am annoying her with questions she already knows the answers to. In other words, she KNOWS she passed all her tests so why am I asking her to repeat the obvious. It doesn't dawn on her that I was not at school today and therefore could not possibly know she passed these tests. I then have to wait until she is calmer to explain the situation.

People with AS don't develop their Social skills to perfection, ever. Period. As I stated earlier, children with AS grow up to be adults with AS. They can, with the right interventions and based upon their own ability and willpower, control it but there is always a risk. A person with AS may fly into a rage and hurt themselves, as my daughter did one day when she used the wrong color on a school project and put her fist through the window glass in rage. As I was running to get a cold compress to put on her bleeding hand so we could take her to the hospital, she broke away from my husband and put her OTHER hand through more glass. The concept that she had just hurt herself badly absolutely did not register.

It's not common but people with AS or other forms of autism can be driven to such rage they could hurt ot kill. And those like my daughter do know right from wrong but they just can't deal with perceived injustice. So a person cutting someone with AS off may be perceived as having done something unfair. Then the rage builds and the person with AS can't control it and they explode. At the time, they are not aware of what they are doing. Once a fit has started, there is little chance of calming them down or bringing them back. The key is to prevent it from beginning in the firt place. My daughter and kids like her are constantly being taught in her school and group therapies to "talk themselves down" so to speak. To calm themselves when they feel one of theses fits coming on so it doesn't escalate.

A Good book to read about growing up undiagnosed with AS is
"Look Me In The Eye" By John Elder Robinson. It's an easy read, very humorous and a very good look at someone growing up with AS undiagnosed and misunderstood.

jaquawn said...

Jaquawn thinks this nanny is making more than she deserves, based on her negative attitude and inappropriate remarks.

CAse closed.

Anonymous said...

9:13
Great post, thank you.
You seem to really have your hands full, but your daughter is very lucky to have you.
I personally know someone with Aspergers, and they are exactly as you describe, but I haven't seen them ever fly into a rage.
Are there different degrees of it? Are some people "worse" (for lack of a better word, sorry) than others?
I admit I am uneducated on this subject as well, so I really appreciate your time.

Anonymous said...

9:05, I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you. I meet many 'a folk online through message boards and chatting. We get in arguments, tiffs, and battles over simple mistunderstandings. Misunderstandings that are brought on by the way I, or they, mistook something that was written. Communication thrives on tone, and exspression as well. If I read most of your comments and took them for face value, I'd say most of you are lonely, classless, controlling, bitches. And also "uneducated" to the point of not being able to realize that you can't judge a book by it's cover. In this case, my venting. Cleary that is not the case, however, and I'd be a fool to believe it is. I'm sure most of you are wonderful people, that while you're negative, offer wonderful advice. Advice that I've taken and made a few changes in my work field. However your thoughts on my classyness, and my education level are pretty much beyond me, and I can't help the way you think. All I can say is "wow", and I hope you open your minds to more obvious problems that dwell outside of the virtual world. Some of your comments lead me to believe that you think anyone that's angry, uses profanity, and isn't writing a college thesis, is classless, and uneducated. Come on, this isn't real, but this is my opinion. You're def. entitled to yours.
I can't partake in this anymore, I'm more interested in the mom who has a child with AS, so that's what I have to focus on now, Thank you.

BTW, I understand that what people write online is the only way for us to percieve them, however, while thats true, if I plan on talking to them for quite a while, I offer phone or face time because situations such as this occurs. For instance, my boss told me she met her husband "the prick" online. She thought he was a complete Ass, but she had to meet him, feel him, see him, hear him, to know that he wasn't so bad, and she fell in love. See how reality works?

Take care.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Cara said...

Cara thinks Jaquwan needs to change that name

Anonymous said...

lol

mom said...

OP,
I believe I conceded in my original post that your use of foul language does not necessarily reflect your level of education. It does, however, give a pretty good indication of how much class you might have..or at least how much you exhibit around others...not to mention your sense of judgment. Do you really fault people for making the very obvious conclusions they have based upon how you speak? First impressions are very important and very hard to erase. I just thought you might want to know that your behavior does leave an impression on the people you interact with about what kind of person you likely are...and what that impression has been here. It's not particularly flattering, and you sounds like that bothers you. That's a good thing. Use it to your advantage. Don't waste time being mad at us for having that (apparently fairly universal) reaction to your language, and being willing to tell you. Instead, consider making the changes that you know will help cast you in the light you prefer. We all make mistakes and, hopefully, simply learn from them and go on in a more beneficial direction. Do that here, if you want to, that is. If you like to talk that way, continue doing so...only don't be mad at others for drawing the obvious conclusions if you do.

Your employer's husband is highly educated but has no class. (He may actually have some disorder...but this one sounds more to me like just a pompous creep.)I don't believe I have ever indicated that I think he might be "better" than you. But if I were you, I wouldn't put too much stock in his education and accomplishments. I think how a person treats others is a far more important measure of their "success."

And I definitely would NOT have published my contact information here for all to see. Your employer's "success story" is precisely the reason for that. How you do not see that for the cautionary tale that it actually is, I cannot comprehend. She immediately pegged his true nature based on his internet writings (hmmmm...weren't we just talking about something like that?), went against her first (and, BTW, CORRECT) instincts, met and married the guy, and is now married to the insensitive jerk that she knew he was the first moment she saw what he wrote on line. Yup, that IS how it works.

Cali mom, I think you may have misuinderstook my comments about you. I understood what you meant the first time. I knew that you were NOT trying to mock Aspergers victims...only our society's extreme need to label (and therefore excuse) every form of bad behavior. I don't like that either. I also think it takes away from the people who really do have these disorders and do not need to have it seem as though they are simply common, everyday, "quirks." Autism is a serious matter, and every "asshat" that comes down the pike does not need to be lumped in with these true victims.

mom said...

PS "She who..." has confirmed that she is here (11:24pm.) I only hope it is not OP. (The repeated "you don't know me," and several very defensive comments.) Just be aware...NO need to waste time there.

Anonymous said...

Another great post, 5:03.

I think OP's complaints about her employers are valid, but I would never hire her. Too many maturity issues, and way too much shooting from the hip. Good child-rearing requires judgment and perspective, neither of which OP has demonstrated. Over and over, she's demonstrated the opposite.

Publishing her contact information online? Not a good idea, especially since there's so much information about the family here.

I suspect OP and this family are actually a good match -- and that's why she hasn't left. She fits.

we need a nanny union said...

Quit. Quit. Quit. Quit. Quit. Quit. And, oh yeah, Quit. It's a nanny's market, don't settle until you're happy.

marypoppin'pills☼ said...

Op
While I agree with 5:13 that you may be slightly immature, your age may be a factor - how old are you, may I ask?
You seem to be a little impulsive, also. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that I would probably think you were pretty cool if I were to meet you in person.
I also agree though ... that putting your info up was not your best move. You might want to ask JD to delete that post ... for your safety.

jb said...

Yes MOM!
How you treat other people does in fact demonstrate just how much class one has or does not have.

I wish all the pompous bitch employers and bitter nannies realized just how foolish they looked.

cali mom said...

Mom, your last paragraph in your post at 5:03 is exactly whatt I meant, so yes, I did mean to agree with you and I did understand you. Sometimes a jerk is just a jerk and it doesn't mean they have "Jerk" Syndrome. And yes, that does put people with a real disorder at a disadvantage when every idiosyncracy is classified as it's own "Syndrome".

Reminds me of a boss I had that after awhile whenever I mentioned his name, my husband would start singing "oh the head bone's connected to the butt-bone and the butt-bone's connected to the head bone"...

Anonymous said...

Op, here.
Marypoppin'pills, that e-mail is a "play" e-mail. It's not my real name, or my main e-mail addy. I'm not worried either way :).
Thanks for the concern.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Anonymous said...

Wow, I did the same and found quite a bit of info. Anybody with some time on their hands could definately infiltrate your privacy.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
mpp said...

I am so glad all that was deleted!

Anonymous said...

9:07 PM
I think you are the one who is "clueless about professional nannies". A nanny does child care. That includes cleaning up after meals she prepares for the children, putting away toys and clothes, cleaning up after messy art projects etc. She may also do the children's laundry, shop for their clothes and other needs, arrange classes and Dr. appointments, plan birthday parties etc. Unlike a babysitter, she is expected to be knowledgeable about child development, provide stimulating age appropriate activities, guide social development, and with school age charges, supervise homework and music practice.
Making the parents bed, picking up after them taking out the household garbage etc does not make you a professional nanny it makes you a housekeeper/nanny. There is nothing wrong with that, it is what many families need. If you agreed to those duties when they hired you, that is fine.
My beef is with employers who ASSUME that a nanny is a general household servant/personal assistant.

Anonymous said...

11:07, were you glad that the information about the OP that was posted here was deleted?

That information was not private; that was information the OP herself put up on the internet, and which has been up since 2005. It was already public, long before it got posted here.

It's not a bad idea for all employers to run searches on email addresses and check other places where their nannies may have an internet presence.

Legitimate companies regularly check Facebook, etc. as a part of reference checks. It's a good way to see how your prospective (or current) employee presents her/himself, which may be very different from what you see.

It's also one way to maintain your own privacy, if you don't want to see your own identifying information turning up in a blog, for example. Or your children's pictures.

11:07 here said...

Of course I was. I think this OP may be slightly immature and impulsive, and I don't think she thought putting her Info up here through - because obviously she (or even JD), thought better of it and removed it. I understand she can be contacted through her blog and stuff, but why set up a direct line for it?
Either way - it shouldn't have been posted here.

Anonymous said...

Just a note, there wasn't a direct line set up to OP's information. The only direct line was OP's own post of her email address.

The other information was up on public websites, but nobody published the URLs for those websites, or even their names.

Anonymous said...

Um - that's what I was talking about. OPs direct line: (e-mail address). And she shouldn't have posted it.
Anyway, are we really having this conversation?
It's quite boring.
G'day!

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