Received Monday, October 22, 2007
I am certain this was a nanny and not an auntie or grandmother. The child was a medium complected, African American boy of about 3.5 wearing navy khakis and a white polo with a gold crest/symbol in it. He had an Afro of at least 3" depth, very attractive child and wore a home made/hand crafted bracelet made from twine and stones on his wrist. He was with a heavy set African American female who was dressed in a gauze-style shirt that went to her thighs. She was wearing blue jeans and Keds. The boy was very active, he had ton of energy to burn off. The nanny or babysitter seemed okay until I noticed that she was asking him about something. She then told him not to sass her. He said "I am not sassing you" and she whacked him on his bottom twice pretty hard. This was also witnessed by a mid thirties, Asian female who was watching her two children at the playground at the same time. It seemed like she hit the boy pretty hard but he didn't cry. He looked around like he was embarrassed- to see who had seen. He was pretty ashamed so I averted my eyes. I know this was not the parent because of the way she spoke to him at other times. There was little connection. The nanny may have had a slight Island accent. The carried themselves quite differently, you could tell that the boy came from a well to do home and that she was the sitter. And please don't say it is okay to smack kids or that kids need to be smacked. It's not okay and they don't.
68 comments:
next time do something!
I would love to know how you learned so much from the way a 3.5 yr old boy "carried [him]self".
dh has forbidden me from involving myself in other people's quarrels and disputes. particularly while i am out with dc.
and i am not op. i'm just saying. i can't be the only one with a protective dh.
Oh dear, now the politically correct police are going to come in and go absolutely berserk over you referencing noticing a difference in "class". People, settle, settle, take a deep breath, it doesn't even have to be about money (I've known some extremely poor people who were raised very well, and were extremely intelligent and held themselves very well.) It can be about anything, even education, that causes us to notice a difference in peoples demeanors and how they carry themselves. Let's not bring money into this, let's just say that there may have been a difference in how they presented themselves to the world, a difference in their culture and up bringing. Is that correct OP? I minored in Sociology (to dumb it down, the Psychological study of people and culture) so I am not attempting to step on anyone's toes (especially considering I am not a millionaire myself LOL) I am just stating another way to view what the OP said, so that this post doesn't get as far off track as so many others have...
Ok....the bottom line here is that she hit the child and she should be fired. Let's hope the parents SEE this!!!!! Good post, OP.
This post is BS...you don't even know if it's the nanny or not. This could very well be the parent, and she's darn right! Kids shouldn't talk back..there is nothing wrong with a little smack on the bottom to show kids who the boss is. Maybe if you all whacked your kids on the bottom more often, and didn't let them talk back to you now, they wouldn't be such little smart a**es and disrespectful terrors with no manners. I don't know what's wrong with these new age parents, but when you think you're doing right, your kids are 100% awful. You let them do whatever they want, let them make their own choices(at age 2...some choices are OK, but when you let them wear tights with jeans and a turtle neck in the dead of summer "because she just had to" and she scremed about it...all of that reflects on you), let them act up, talk back to you, curse, have sex in your house...everything. Then when they grow up to be monsters you wonder what happened, but you don't worry because you're highly medicated, whether legally or illegally. Think about it.
1:25, You seem to have a good point to make..about excessive permissiveness and "looking the other way" causing children to become spoiled and unpleasant to be with...not to mention that they often end up lacking a proper sense of right and wrong and the ability to forsee and take responsibility for their consequences.
HOWEVER, although I swatted my own kids on behind, I would never want a babysitter, teacher, or anybody else to hit them. I spanked at times I thought were appropriate, but did not whack at them for every little misdeed. There are other ways to get a point across to a kid and I would not take the chance of opening up that door to somebody else's discretion.
I would NEVER allow anyone to hit my child, but I have babysat for kids (even as a teeanger) where the parents would say to spank the child. I never did. I think this is terrible, but am also not completely convinced this was not a parent. OP, how are you so sure?
why is spanking such a controversial subject?
When I was younger you got spanked all the time and ya,,, it was embarassing and then you learned not to do it again
come on people...stop all this new agey stuff
let's get back to basics
My bosses have told me they want me to spank thier children because that is how they prefer to punish them. I have yet to do it but what if another nanny is put in that position? If I try to tell them thier child acted up all they say is "Why didn't you spank them?"
407 PM
I hope a pair of vultures shits on your collective boss's heads.
What qualifications were the looking for when they hired a nanny? A pupper doesn't need to have a brain.
I don't have a problem spanking my own kids, but I wouldn't want someone else doing it for me
It was a good post and just because a nanny is a brute does not mean it's called for nor does it say anything negative about the parents other than they may not chosen wisely in a nanny.
I would never work for a family that believed in spanking. Does it teach a child not to hit, but to use his words? To care about other's feelings? To be honest, and admit it if he has done something wrong? No, it teaches him that if you are bigger and stronger, you can hit. Yes, a spanking that is painful or humiliating enough will stop the behavior, or at least they will be careful not to get caught again.
There are much better ways to teach socially acceptable behavior, and good manners than hitting.
A Nanny
People who spank so rarely have the money needed to pay for a nanny. Do you think that is a coincidence? Or that spanking/hitting child is a sign of lack of class?
9:06
...and do you also notice that that class of children are more well behaved?
You never see them embarrass their parents do you.
If something is not broken, don't fix it. What worked years ago still does today.
Remember margarine versus butter?
Instead of eating less they find 'better' ways to eat more...only, it wasn't really better was it?
What worked yesterday (not abuse) still works today.
I got spanked as a child. I got over it- not to mention I knew my parents loved me.
Don't wait for the next generation to realize what a mistake we have made with our 'new age' way of thinking.
9:04, EXACTLY. All that spanking teaches is that whoever is bigger and stronger should smack around whoever is smaller to get what they want.
12:16 must be a neanderthal if it truly believes there is no value in teaching kids about COMMUNICATION (using words over violence), RESPECT (you sure don't respect someone that you smack around at the drop of a hat, so why should they respect you?) and EMPATHY over revenge (you just made me mad so I'll hurt you to make myself feel better. Because I can.) Attitudes like THAT is why there is so much teen anger, violence, and lack of respect for parents. Would you really respect someone who hurt and humiliated you up all the time just to show who's boss? Why is it fine for parents to do it to a child and not fine for a husband to do it to a wife?
Sorry, meant to say Would you really respect someone who hurt and humiliated you all the time just to show who's boss?
anon @ 1216 am-
actually 99 percent of Inmates in Arizona, Utah and Colorado were spanked as children.
Wouldn't that be a great motto for your whole "Bring back spanking" campaign?
And screw you and heaven help the tiny children you bat around.
End the cycle of madness.
Parents who hit their children should cease to exist.
I agree that spanking is useless. It's a quick "fix", and just teaches children to not do the act IN FRONT of you again. It eventually leads to children sneaking around, lack of communication, and hiding actions from you. Children are smart and they will adapt. Since when have we decided that it's best to teach someone by "hitting" them? Next time you anger your spouse maybe he should smack you to let you know it was wrong??? I was NEVER spanked as a child, and was raised by parents who used their words with me and realized I had a brain. I got straight A's in high school and college, and can honestly say I was never once sent the Principles office, and I've never so much as had a parking ticket! I am also an extremely calm person (not quick to anger), and at the age of 24 already extremely successful. I respect my parents (they are my role models) more than any one in the entire world, and value that they took the time to teach me via their words and actions, rather than humiliating me to temporarily quiet my actions. Those of you who spank, are fooling yourselves Psychological studies HAVE proven that children who are spanked DO have more issues than children who are not!
I spanked mine on the rare occasion it seemed appropriate. Not hard, but a swat on the behind does send a message in the event 1) it is a rare occurence, so the child realizes they have really crossed a line, and 2) you are not hurting them. Each of my children has probably been spanked less times than I can count on a hand, and they are all perfectly fine.
Here is an example; My first son at the age of 2 1/2 all of a sudden started hitting other kids...all the time. I had to stand right beside him at all times at the park, or anywhere he was with other kids. I was horrified and did not know what to do. He had never been spanked in his life and I did not like the idea of spanking such a small child, so I didn't. I called the pediatrician (several times) throughout the 6 months that this went on. I followed his advice...talking it through with him at each occurence and giving him time outs on the spot. I also spoke with my son often at other times about not hurting other people...and he seemed to understand perfectly...until we got around kids again. It was a nightmare. I pictured my son turning into the next Hitler. I read books...tried to learn and employ every possible strategy other than spanking him. Nothing worked. People told me that his hitting was probably a result of frustration, as children in that age range often have difficulty communicating with words and so they apparently hit instead. But, as much as that idea may have eased my mind about my son's character, it didn't do much to help the innnocent kids at the park. I stood right beside him all the time, and yet he still managed to reach out and hit, or throw a handful of sand really fast, etc. Finally I said to my husband that I thought I might try giving him a swat the next time he hit a child. He agreed. So, at his third birthday party my son pushed a little boy hard into the bushes. Not prickly bushes, but still it hurt and the child cried. I took my son aside, swatted his behind (not really hard, but enough so he was surprised.) I said to him, "When you hit and hurt other people, that's how it feels to them." That's all I said, but his eyes grew very wide and his bottom lip came out. And his hitting behavior stopped completely at that very minute. It was night and day, the change I saw in my son. I sat happily with the other moms at the park after that, watching my son interact kindly with the other children, and I never once saw him hit or throw sand again. (Thank God the other moms didn't hate me by then! I can only assume it is because they saw how hard I was trying to keep him from hitting, although I bet many of them wished I would simply stay away from the park altogether!)
My criteria for giving a spank was very stringent. I reserved it for absoulte outright defiance and situations where there was an immediate danger and somebody would not follow safety instructions. (Such as, I say to the child, "stand here with your hands on the side of the car while I take the baby out of her seat,so that you won't be hit by a car," but the child turns and runs into the parking lot anyway. So you go get the child and tell him again to stand with his hands touching the car, but he runs again. I would swat in that instance if I knew the child knew better and was simply being defiant.)
The thing is, if you do it responsibly, kids take notice, and you don't have to do it many times. When a kid knows there are definite limits to what you will allow, they accept it pretty well. My preferred method of punishment was time out, or even going home from a fun activity, and those almost always worked. And I wonder if that is because they knew there was one more level we could take it to if necessary?
Oops. I left the 10:43 comment, so all of you who wish to call me names will know who to address.
PS I was spanked as a child and younger sister was not. Somehow in the four years between the time I was born and she came along, my parents decided that spanking was cruel and ineffective. Oddly, they kept on spanking me as we grew.
When I did something wrong, I had immediate and painful consequences. I quickly learned that following the rules and being nice to other people was the way to go.
When my sister did something wrong, they attributed it to her probably "feeing" a certain way, and excused her. Sometimes they just blamed me for being older and not stopping her when I could have, and I got punished. She learned that anything she said, or did, no matter how bad was "OK." (Or maybe even somebody else's fault.)
Anyway, I am a pretty normal person, living a pretty normal life, following the law and raising my children in a pretty conservative way. I was respectful to my parents and teachers and got mostly A's in school, even through college. My husband and I take sole responsibility for our lives, our finances and our children. Our children are also respectful, caring and good students.
My sister was a wild out of control teenager, stole from my parents, destroyed their property out of carelessness and selfishness, and had wild parties in the house every time she was left alone for any length of time. (Always excused, by the way.) She got terrible grades, was suspended from school once, and ended up in therapy. She dated dozens of unsavory guys, exhibited very loose morals and had no regard whatsoever for the law. (She "needs to be herself" my mother defended.) She once went to the police and falsely accused my mother of child abuse. ("What did I ever do to deserve this?" my mother cried. "Nothing" was the obvious answer.) My sister is now an angry and bitter woman, deeply involved in a religious cult, married to a man who is only sporadically employed, the mother of three children (all of whom have "issues"), and barely enough money to put food on the table. Her family has been evicted from their residences more than once. She blames all of this on whom? My parents,of course, because they could give her more money and they don't. Everything she does is OK, and everything wrong is somebody else's fault.
Forgive me for thinking discipline, even spanking when absolutely necessary, is the better course.
There is nothing wrong with spanking a kid. When I was growing up and I tell you I did this one time, I was about four and I smarted off to my mother, she bopped me in the mouth, not hard enough to do damage but it did sting. To this day I never smart off to my mother. Ever.
Spanking works, my son once was bad and wouldn't calm down and he was crying cuz I was yelling at him. I told him there are worse things then yelling, swatted him on the behind. Ever since that day we talk when there is a problem and he has never gotten out of control again. He knows there are worse things than being scolded when he does something wrong.
Nothing wrong with spanking I guess it is a matter of who controls who. I don't let my kids mouth off to me, they have respect, for myself and other adults. Maybe it is just a culture thing.
No, it's not a culture thing.
It's a class thing.
You illuminate yourself clearly by your use of "cuz".
Do you understand the concept of evolution? Parents who spank their children have not evolved, hencefore and ergo they are inferior beings. There is a chance however that their children will be the missing link and evolve to such great heights as to comprehend that intelligent people do not need to use physical force to discipline.
I understand evolution. I understand that we have evolved into a society where an alarming number of kids have no morals, no self respect, no common decency, no compassion, no value for other human beings, and no respect for authority or the law.
What they do have is an enormous sense of entitlement, a lot of pent up anger and an inability to forsee consequences. And some of them are pretty scary human beings.
A couple of generations ago kids were routinely spanked to a degree that we would now consider criminal beating. (I am not suggesting that is in any way OK, so spare me any lectures.)My parents generation was also spanked to a degree that I would never dream of doing today. I would also not spank with the frequency, or to the degree that I was spanked. However, when you ask people of any of these generations about their upbringing and what it taught them...you will rarely find a person who feels that they were abused or mistreated. They will most often tell about how they didn't do more than a few wrong things before they knew what to expect for bad behavior. Then they usually go on to credit their parents for giving them a good sense of right and wrong. Then they go on to compare the kids of today with the kids of their generation and cannot understand how kids today get away with the crap they do. Then they express fear for the future of our society. Anybody raised in a household where the parents were in charge,instead of the kids, will tell you that "I would have never DARED...speak to my parents that way...do such a thing, etc."
So, although we may not want to hurt our kids feelings, sometimes the "favor" we think we are doing for them actually turns out to be their destruction.
I think it is a matter of evolution. When animals have children, they behave like animals.
When refined people have children and raise them with strict morals and solid words, they grow up to be refined and accomplished adults.
I have three children 14,18 and 20. No one was spanked. Slapped or hit. There are plenty of other punishments to hand out to a children. Responsible parenting involves consisted discipline and setting a good example.
I know the heathens out there of which you speak. The apple falls not far from the tree.
I highly doubt your children will grow up and spank their children.
It isn't good, okay, acceptable or "the way". It's a shortcut that suggests violence as a solution.
If only you knew my children, you would understand just how absurdly disgusting your suggestion is that children need to be spanked to grow up right.
I pity your children.
I agree with Mom on this one point. Reserving spanking as the ultimate punishment for SERIOUS infractions is not a bad practice as long as both parents agree. It should not be done in anger or retaliatory manner, but as a consequence of behavior that endangers the health of the child or others, it is an effective punishment as long as it is used very rarely. I don't know that I would class slapping other children in that category, but that is up to Mom (both the poster above and any Mom). I would NEVER offer spanking as a punishment option to a nanny or babysitter.
My children are 21, 17 and 14. If you knew them you'd probably also see my point. They were spanked, but rarely.
Not long ago my 21 year old saw an ill behaved child in action. He said to me, "I would never NEVER DARED to act that way."
He is responsible, law abiding and has a remarkable work ethic and is a very compassionate person. He realizes that what he gets in life, is probably what he earns. He is one person who will never think the world owes him a living, and will never be bitter about his upbringing. And at 21, he already can't understand what's wrong with so many kids today.
BUT YOU DIDN'T HAVE TO SPANK your children to get them to act like that. Are you STUPID?
I AGREE with SYL.
My children recognize bad behavior in other children and they are just 4 & 7. They ask in a confused way, "mommy why is that girl yelling at her mommy". "But why is she bad like that".
YOU DO NOT HAVE TO HIT YOUR CHILDREN. YOU CHOOSE TO. YOU HAVE A SADISTIC STREAK.
DEAL WITH IT.
I would suggest Craigs List Sexual Encounters for an S&M session with a consulting adult and NOT hitting your children.
SYL 3:55 PM
Dont judge too quickly for the use of "cuz" that is an abbreviation for because. I am sorry you don't understand that. I am a very well educated woman in the corporate work force. The use of an abbreviation does not give insight to social status. Spaking does not give insight into a persons social status either. It is just how some people feel they can raise their kids. They are not your kids. I don't pass judgment on anyone and I am sorry that you feel so horrible about yourself that you need to call others names, when in fact they are just expressing an opinion.
I would assume that your use of words to insult other people must tell me something about your social status. If you have money good for you, if you are upper class good for you, but you are not a classy person.
I most certainly will judge you based on your use of "cuz".
You certainly have no problem judging other people's children and assuming they have to be awful because their parents didn't "spank" them.
To SYl and 4:38,
Perhaps you are new to the site? We are just past a terrible weekend with a freak of a "nanny" who posted constantly and in very poor taste. Tacky is not what we're looking for.
Those of us who enjoy the blog would prefer not to take it into the gutter with such immaturity as name calling, vulgar language, and stupid insults.
If you disagree, fine. If you disagree strongly, fine. But please try to do it with a little class. This is a discussion, not a bar room brawl.
Your wonderful children would probably be ashamed to read your posts. And it's hard for us to take you seriously when you don't sound like mature adults.
SYL,
Go away.
I will not go away. I stand by my assertion that people who spank their children have no class. They are animals. They are not evolved. I find it sick, twisted and disturbing. There are other countries that are fast making it illegal to spank children. I am anti more government, but if we need government to make a law so that regressed people stop taking their anger and phsyical agression out on their tiny children, well so be it.
that was me
^^^^^ Syl
I understand that you feel this way. I too feel that it is wrong to take anger and frustration out on children. There is a difference between abuse and a little spanking.
Don't judge people based on abbreviations that is not appropriate. As adults we are all trying to express opinion. I will agree to disagree with you.
Spoiled, entitled, antisocial etc. behaviors are not a result of not spanking. They are a result of poor parenting, and lack of discipline. The alternative to spanking is not total permissiveness as some of you who defend spanking seem to think. It is possible, and desirable to raise well behaved, kind and happy children without hitting them.
3:50, aka the Big Bopper, you might not let your kids "mouth off to you " because they know you'll beat the stuffing out of them, but I'm willing to bet they mouth off ABOUT you plenty. And I'm also willing to bet you won't be trusted alone with your grandkids, if they decide to have any.
And the kids who "wouldn't DARE" act up in front of their parents are also the ones who wouldn't DARE tell their parents of an accidental pregnancy, a suspected STD, a growing problem with a chemical dependancy, or of bothersome emotional problems like depression. I guess you'd prefer they just go off and die politely somewhere than "mouth off" to you about their issues, huh?
Cali mom,
You are soooo wrong.
My kids aren't allowed to mouth off, don't mouth off, and also talk to me about just about everything in their lives, pleasant or otherwise.
As somebody reasonable above said, there is a big difference between abuse and a little spanking.
Cali mom,
By the way, are you a working mom or a stay at home mom?
'Cause if you have a nanny, your kids just might be well behaved, not because you are the world's best parent, but because your hired substitute mommy gives them a swat when they mouth off. Ever considered that?
Calimom is ***never*** wrong
The difference between abuse and a little spanking is the same difference between manslaughter and second degree manslaughter.
(not so much)
What is all this? It sounds like some of you are afraid of your own kids! Are you seriously afraid that if you discipline, even give an occasional swat to the tush, that you will be cut out of your children's emotional lives, or that you might not get to see your grandchildren?
Cali mom, get a grip! This is exactly the attitude that is ruining the next generation. We are their PARENTS, not their FRIENDS. For their sake, do not let your ego get in the way of doing right by your children. Make friends with other adults. Your kids need RAISED. Dare to Discipline. (It's a book. read it.)
Sorry, I am opposed to insulting people as a way of communication, but you seem to be as dense as a door. Disciplining a child can be done effectively without resorting to spanking or physical means. You can succesfully raise a child without spanking a child. Who brainwashed you? Are you part of some cult or something? If I wanted to sit down to dinner with two people I know who spank their children, I wouldn't know where to look. Spanking is barbaric. And you will never convince me or any reasonable person otherwise.
Please, GET HELP.
What do you people do when your dog barks? Gouge his eyes out?
The California Legislature is about to weigh in on a question that stirs impassioned debate among moms and dads: Should parents spank their children?
Assemblywoman Sally Lieber, a Mountain View Democrat, wants to outlaw spanking children up to 3 years old. If she succeeds, California would become the first state in the nation to explicitly ban parents from smacking their kids…
“I think it’s pretty hard to argue you need to beat a child 3 years old or younger,” Lieber said. “Is it OK to whip a 1-year-old or a 6-month-old or a newborn?” …
Lieber conceived the idea while chatting with a family friend and legal expert in children’s issues worldwide. The friend, Thomas Nazario, said that while banning spanking might seem like a radical idea for the United States, more than 10 European countries already do so. Sweden was the first, in 1979.
“Why do we allow parents to hit a little child and not someone their own size?” said Nazario, a professor at the University of San Francisco Law School. “Everyone in the state is protected from physical violence, so where do you draw the line? To take a child and spank his little butt until he starts crying, some people would define that as physical violence.” …
“And if you never hit a cat,” Lieber said, “you should never hit a kid.”
Whip? Beat? Physical Violence?
This is how people now define a swat on the bottom?
Drama queens much?
Good grief! The world has truly gone mad!
I have not seen one post here that indicates anybody thinks it is a good idea to whip, slap , hit, beat, or even spank hard enough to hurt--even from those advocating an occasional swat.
Why all the drama ladies? It makes no rational sense. Why not at least wait for a real issue to go all ghetto at one another over?
Hitting is wrong. But the "wouldn't dare" stuff that Cali Mom is spouting is wrong too. You CAN raise kids who wouldn't dare mouth off, simply because you have raised them to respect you and don't let them get away with disrespect (not only are there consequences other than hitting that can be imposed, but kids really do tend to live UP or DOWN to your expectations). These same kids can also trust and love you, and turn to you when in need.
11:02, I am a SAHM with no nanny. My child is extremely well behaved and loving. People comment constantly on how sweet he is. He has his occasional moments of defiance, as ALL 3 year olds do. But I don't bust him in the chops for it, (or "bop him in the mouth", as you advocate). Know why? Partly because I am the adult and he is the child and it is therefore my job as a RESONSIBLE PARENT to teach him why that would be WRONG. And partly because he is roughly 1/4 my size, so it would be EXTREMELY wrong.
11:17, agreed.
12:06, I do agree with that. I didn't mean to say it wasn't possible for kids to love and respect their parents despite their parents disciplining them. That would be silly.
But I DO believe that no matter how "respectful" a child acts towards a parent who "bops them in the mouth" regularly, or how much they may love the parent despite being punched in the face by them throughout their childhood, they WILL look back on that in adulthood and there WILL be a great loss of respect as they move beyond their upbringing and reach the age where they analyze and reflect on the parenting skills, or lack thereof, of their parents. And when the parent dies, the child will probably forgive them for those mistakes.
How do you explain to your child that it is okay for daddy to hit him but not okay for daddy to hit mommy?
Cali mom,
Nobody is advocating bopping any child in the mouth (I hope), or punching in the mouth. Or hopefully not hurting them in any way. If this is what you think people are saying, then I agree with your earlier comments. Those children who are abused will certainly have every right to resent their parents, be afraid of them, and will hopefully NOT let their grandchildren alone with them to receive more of the same.
Also, I would not even give a little swat to a child under three, since they would likely be unable to understand why you are even doing it. He would probably just be sitting there confused and thinking, "Why did mommy just hit me?" The point is not to confuse them, hurt them into submission, or make them afraid. Afraid is NOT what we need to make our kids to get them into line.
I did ocassionally give a little swat...and I mean a little swat...not a smack, or a whip, or a painful hit. I did it very rarely, and when limits were tested to the point that I wanted to send the message that they did need to obey the limits. It was because it was different and unusual, not painful, that it got their attention.
Ordinarily with my kids I would ask them to go "sit on the stairs" when they misbehaved. This was "time out" enough to make them cry and feel sufficiently bad to send a message...almost every time. But there was a time or two where they might "refuse" the punishment given...just to see what might happen if they simply rejected the punishment. A time or two where "talking it out" was unsuccessful. At those times we gave a little swat. Because it was different, it got their attention, and that was the end of whatever it was going on. Not because it was painful (it wasn't) but because it got their attention and let them know mom and dad expect them to listen and obey their instructions.
I am not advocating that any other parent spank their children. If other methods work for you, that's great. Every child is different and needs to be raised accordingly.
If a person is constantly batting and whacking at their children, not only is it out of line, but it has no effect because the child is always ducking a flying hand...as if that's a normal part of life. And if you feel need to drag your child by the arm while whacking repeatedly at his bottom as he wails and tries frantically to cover up, you are out of control. (I see this often in public and it is really stupid.) If you hit your child in anger it is probably too hard and it only sends fear.
There is a difference between fear and respect. Pain brings fear. Consistent and caring discipline brings respect.
If loss of privilige is a consequence because children dont like to lose priviliges and time out is a consequence because childen dont like to have their freedom limited, than what is the consequence of your swat?
If it doesn't hurt?
It has to hurt. On a child's level, it must bring pain and henceforth and ergo this pain brings fear.
Dear Henceforth and Ergo person,
That is actually a very good question. I spent some time thinking about it. My guess is that they understood it to be a level up on the punishment scale, as it was, as I have mentioned many times, very, very rare, and brought out only in the most extreme of situations. I have no doubt it hurt their feelings, because they knew they had really crossed a line and that we were very unhappy with their behavior at those times.
But I think we are getting way off the point here. Or at least you are not understanding what I am trying to say.
I do not ADVOCATE spanking children. If there is any other means that works for you, please go with that. That was always my policy too. If I add up my children's ages, I have more than 50 child years behind me. I am a stay at home mom, so I have been with them A LOT. I can count the total times I have spanked all of them combined on my two hands and have fingers left to spare. It was my last resort...but it worked for us the few times we thought it to be the best course.
As much as I tried to use every other avenue of discipline,there were just a few times when one of the kids got really out of control, despite our best efforts. In those rare instances, a swat worked for us. If it's not your thing, by all means, never do it.
I think it is possible to raise a wonderful child without spanking. But I think it is also very important to find an effective way to set limits.
I think what people are arguing about (and grossly generalizing) here is that most of times when you see a parent who is raising a little tyrant because they refuse to discipline at all, those same parents will usually tell you that they don't believe in spanking. That is not to say that parents who don't spank don't discipline their kids...but I very much suspect that, because the reverse is so typically true, everybody who doesn't spank often gets lumped into that same "ineffective parent" category.
There is no reason for anybody to push anybody else to spank their kids. Let's not insist that proper discipline must include spanking, and I think we can all get a long a bit better.
And if you ever do spank, I can tell you assuredly that pain is not the issue. You should never hurt your children.
cali mom...
you are not reading correctly. I said that I was bopped in the mouth as a kid, I don't hit my kids in the mouth, and by the way you are wrong about the kids not confiding in their parents. My parents hit me once "in the mouth" and I never smarted off to them ever again, and I still confided in my mother. So it doesn't matter in the end kids make their own decisions to confide in parents, it is not due to the fact that they were spanked.
Of course it is pain.
"
And if you ever do spank, I can tell you assuredly that pain is not the issue. You should never hurt your children."
You write such a thoughtful response but then you end it with that. Perhaps you realize the error of your ways and are trying to rectify the guilt you have. You can stop spanking your children at any times. If you make a mistake with your children, be it yelling at them, giving them false information, breaking a promise or disciplining them improperly, you can apologize to your children and explain. You raise better kids that way. No one is perfect. Great people recognize the error of their ways, strive to be better and admit when they are wrong.
Pascal Barre
Perhaps your idea of how to spank is to beat the child's bottom raw...but not mine.
Stop trying to ride the politically correct dead horse already.
Try to have enough common sense to realize that there are degrees to everything, and that some parents have enough self control to swat a bottom wihtout turning it into a beating.
Exaggerate much? Good grief!
Your husband must love you in an argument. I suppose leaving his dirty socks around translates to binding you into involuntary servitude? Raising his voice probably translates to unrelenting emotional abuse. Stepping on your toe could land him in prison for felony spousal abuse. Yup, you seem like a real treat to deal with.
Look up this new word in the dictionary and try to work it into your life: "moderation"
if you aren't hurting the child, what is the difference between one of your "spankings" and a hug?
you do realize you are insane, right?
spanking-pain inflicted in degrees by the controlled strength of the DOM, used to punish, control and shame the SUB.
1:46 Find something useful to do with your time, and an appropriate outlet for your misguided anger.
You are starting to sound like some sort of fanatical nutjob.
Here is a rule of thumb you might find useful for dealing with people: Making a lot of stupid statements (especially all in a row) tends to lessen your credibility and cause people to lose sight of (and interest in) your original message. It's called "moderation." Try it. Everybody else will like it.
Now, if you really just want to fight with somebody...anybody...there's a particulary scintillating discussion taking place in one of the threads above about synthetic hairpieces and the ability of the general public at large to identify them on sight--or whether claiming to be able to do so is simply another way to express latent racist tendencies. Sounds right up your alley.
1:46
For such a self-proclaimed peacenik, you do sound a little retentive.
Perhaps an enema is in order?
Hardly a peacey comment.
Could be. If getting one clams her up.
I think you ladies need to stop "bickering" or you'll get a "spanking"...lol.
It's time for all parents to understand that how people raise their children is their own buisness and that under no circumstances are they obigated to see eye to eye with your own parenting methods. If there was a "right way" to raise children, there would be an instruction manual on parenting.
You ladies have made a mountain out of this mole-hill...
"How parents raise their children is their own business." NO. It isn't. There are too many parents who don't seem to be able to do right by their children. Some children are abused, some are ignored, some are deprived of proper nutrition, and some are not dressed appropriately. In fact, this list could go on and on. When children are endangered in anyway, be it by a nanny, a sitter, a teacher or a parent, it is the duty of anyone who observes such to intervene. That includes being able to discern what is acceptable in the treatment of a child. If in doubt, decide on the side of the child. People such as you, who choose to bury their heads in the sand, are most often cowards, and any advice given by you or those of your ilk should be immediately dismissed.
Seriously people. Get a grip. My mother spanked me on a number of occassions, and I can't think of one that was not deserved. I still love my mother. I respect my mother and other adults, and she made sure that I knew who was the parent and who was the child. Every child is different. You can have identical twins and one be a monster and the other sweet as pie. I do not believe that spanking a child makes you a bad parent or an abusive parent. It's plenty of psycho parents who emotionally abuse their children, but never lay a hand on them. How are you going to police that type of violence? At what point are we going to realize that you can't group every person and every action in to one big category and name it A or B. I grew up to be a loving, caring and respectful adult. People tell me all the time that my parents must have raised me right. And they are absolutely correct, because they raised me to know the difference between right and wrong. And if I didn't get it from a conversation or having my toys taken away, then I got spanked. Some people need to realize the difference between raising your child to be a productive part of society and beating your child for your own joy and benefit. The difference is worlds apart.
Oh and the difference between daddy spanking little Tommy and hitting Mommy is that daddy is raising Tommy and not Mommy. I can't even believe how people can confuse the two. Spanking does not equal abuse. Beating equals abuse and I can't understand why people refuse to see that.
3:02
Well said.
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