Thursday, June 14, 2007
We hired a new nanny in January and she seems to be a pretty good fit. I have just a couple of issues with her punctuality and remembering things but she is young and has great energyand spirit which matches that of my children. The problem is my children start day camp the week after next. The children are gone throughout the day so the nanny doesn't need to do anything, however as she agreed she will pick them up from camp and work until 8PM every night. I decided I would drop the children off in the morning so she wouldn't even have to get up in the morning. In the back of my head I know that the Fall schedule is going to be brutal with three boys in the different schools and lots of extracurricular activities and appointments. So, I thought it great that she would have an easy time of it for 7 weeks. Yesterday, she tells me that "X", a mother who has a child in one of my son's classes has asked her to babysit this summer. She has a child that is not yet camp age. So my nanny has accepted what basically comes out to a full time nanny position (and with a woman who makes a habit of leeching off of people). She is going to be working from 8:30-3:30 every day. She told me that "X" understands that if one of the boys is home ill, her obligation is to us first. My nanny is a live-in nanny and she has one of our vehicles 7 days a week. I am sitting here getting angrier and still angrier by the minute. By the by, camp gets out at 4:00, so I do have to be concerned with her punctuality. Additionally, will she have any energy left for the boys who like to come home and play soccer, swim and ride bikes? If I fired her for this, I could handle the summer schedule myself and I would have plenty of time to find a nanny for fall. But quite frankly, the search that led to finding her was a grueling three month ordeal.
154 comments:
Let me get this straight. You're paying this gal a full time schedule to work part time?
And this live-in nanny has chosen to moonlight on YOUR time (not on her off day)?
Are you serious?
Some of these young people these days have cajones, that's for sure.
I say let her go work for the leach. And let her live with her too.
She is only your Nanny during the hours you agreed upon. Just because she is live-in does not mean you own her the rest of the time. BUT... She does have an obligation to be there at the time you both set. What she does with her free time should not concern you, unless it involves drugs or something that could put you or your family in danger. But it doesn't so she can babysit whoever she wants on her off hours.
If she is late picking up your boys, or the mother of this other child keeps getting home late, in turn making the nanny late, then you have a right to be pissed. You then let her know that she either quits watching the other kid, or can ask them if she can move in with them :). Only if it intefers with you and your children is it any of your buisness.
~Lindsey, sahm~
sounds like a mess waiting to happen. you started to say "we give her a car to drive 7 days a week". was that a thought you didn't finish? because if it were me, i would have a huge problem with her leaving my house in my car everyday to go work somewhere else.
I was going to say that you should be paying her for those hours when she is working somewhere else. It was a very generous and courteous thing you were doing by offering to pay her full time, even though you did not need her to work most of those hours. But, now that I think about it more, I just don't think this situation could be rectified and it would be best to let her go. And start looking for a new nanny. Your nanny has taken advantage of your generosity and has made a poor decision to moonlight on your time. These things mean that she may not be reliable to make good decisions in the future, so you might as well nip it in the bud now, while you have some flexibility with the summer schedule to find someone else.
Sorry to hear about this and good luck to you.
AND TO ADD TO 2:14 DRIVE AN OTHER CHILD ( ACCIDENT AND YOU ARE SCREWED).....
LET HER GO ...MOVE IN WITH OTHER FAMILY..SO SHE GETS PAID 2X..GREAT FOR HER... SUCKS FOR YOU....A TIERED NANNY IS NOT A SAFE NANNY...YOU WERE NICE NOT TO CUT HER PAY IN SUMMER FOR NOT WORKING ALL DAY AND THEN SHE DOES THIS..let her go BYE DONT LET THE DOOR HIT YOU ON THE WAY OUT..THIS NANNY HAS A LOT TO LERN
GOOD LUCK YOU SOUND LIKE A VERY NICE PERSON SO IT SHOULD NOT BE TO HARD TO FIND A NEW NANNY...
it's none of your concern if your employee has more than one job.
if she slacks later, you warn her- then fire her. but otherwise everything and anything she does while she's not in charge of your kids is her issue and not yours.
I don't see what the problem is. What the nanny chooses to do during her free time is not her employer's business as long as she is performing her other job well.
I wouldn't allow it, no way
Are you paying her during those hours already? Because if you aren't paying her (even if she is allowed to use your house and your car) it is still technically her free time, and as argued on here before she can do as she wishes in her free time and work for another family as long as it doesn't impact her position with you. Maybe give it a trial run, if she is late ONCE picking up your boys tell her she needs to choose which job because it is a problem for her to be late, big time!!
But if it is her free time she should be allowed to do as she wishes, including working another job. If you don't want her to use the car then you could tell her that, but if you already said she could have it during her free time it is kind of wrong of you to tell her no now.
Just my opinion. Good luck. Don't jump and do anything rash though.
You need to have a conversation with your nanny and let her know that you are giving her the time off to rejuvenate and enjoy the summer because the fall will be a long one with the children being all over the place. If she doesn't understand this, you need to get rid of her because she is totally taking advantage of your generosity. Also, whatever you do, do NOT let her drive your car during her time off as she might get into an accident while she has the other child in the car and it would be your responsibility.
I am speaking from experience. I believe in being nice and bending backwards for my children's caregiver because I know how hard it is to care for children for long hours. However, it seems that the nicer that I am to them the more they seem to take advantage of my kindness and the less they do for me. My friends, who are kind of nasty at times to their nannies, get everything they want from their nannies. These nannies can't seem to do enough to please them. They complain a lot behind their bosses back but they do everything just right. I don't understand it but ...
This is not to say be rude to her or anything like that. You sound like a nice person so continue to be that way, but let her know that you will not be taken advantage of. If she leaves as a result of you telling her this, you have plenty of time to look for another nanny during the summer. Don't let yourself get angry. Let her know now while you have the time to look for someone else.
Good luck and I hope that everything works out for you.
You have two options:
1. tell her that she cannot work for anyone else as she is employed by you and you are going to need her for your family's needs. end of story. she doesn't get 2 paychecks, living off of you in the meantime.
2. end your relationship with her.
pick yr poison.
Jane Doe,
please don't print the comments of people who type in all caps. If they are that lazy that they cannot go from upper to lower case, their opinion is not relevant.
And with regard to the situation at hand, if she has your permission to use her vehicle 7 days a week (as mine does) then you like I have already assumed the risk for any passenger she may have in her vehicle.
"she seems to be a pretty good fit"
No, not really. She doesn't. A very good friend of mine (who treats her nanny like gold) told me... if you find a good nanny, hold on to her like grim death.
That might explain whe she has the same nanny 7 years later. And she is kind to her nanny and treats her like a part of the family, so the nanny is more invested in doing a great job. I know Lucy Kaylin thinks it is okay to hire robotic nannies, but that never REALLY works.
Lindsey:
You're smoking crack.
This nanny will collect 2 full time paychecks and not have any rent or other expenses.
The OP is generously paying her full time for part time hours for a reason, and that is so 1.) the nanny rejuvenates and 2.) she's "on hold" for the fall so no one else steals her away.
I think the OP would be nuts not to have a freak out.
From my point of view (former nanny with a child on the way) while it's not right to get into dictating what she does on her off time from your kids, it is only fair to be concerned about this situation. I find it odd that she took this job without even discussing it with you first. Perhaps she did this with good intentions and hasn't been in the job force long enough to realize that this is offensive, but it is.
I would have an honest discussion with her, be open minded but remind her that you have to think of your own family's needs first. Ler her know your concerns and let her know it wasn't o.k. for this woman to have approached her like this- I think I have seen it referred to as "nanny poaching" on here. Give her a chance to make it right, and if she doesn't, then you will know what to do from there.
what a nanny does on her own time is her own business. what would the difference be if she were training for a marathon? That would be exhausting too. The real issue here is the presence of another woman and you classist fools thinking that A) this is somehow cheating on you and B) that indentured servitude still exists.
Why is it anymore your business what this nanny does in her off time than what your crack smoking husband does while hanging out with trannys on the LES?
Exactly.
Draw the line, or this could become very messy. I once worked long hours (separately) for two families, and before I knew it, both families needed me for more hours, and it became a tug of war. It got messy, and I had to choose only one family. Feelings were hurt, and the two families never spoke again. All the children are adults now, but I don't think I will ever forgive myself.
This is what I would do about your situation:
-Free Her: Let her live elsewhere for the summer while she works for the other employer. It will be very awkward if she wakes up every morning from your place, drinks your coffee, then drives your car to go work for someone else.
-Give her the option to work for you from 4pm to 8pm evey weekday, and pay her just for those hours. If she is working 35 hour a week for someone else, she is no longer your full time employee, therefore you don't owe her full time pay, and she is no longer 'on call' before 4pm.
-Confirm Fall Schedule: Find out exactly what her plans are for the Fall, so you know soon whether or not you need to start interviewing nannies. Also if you are able to speak to the other employer, find out from her (the employer) if she will need the nanny for more hours in the Fall.
I hope all works out.
To 4:10 - it is her business what her nanny does during the hours of her employment. Which is the case here. She is paying her nanny full-time during the summer, even though her kids are at summer camp. There has been no suggestion here of cheating or servitude and you are simply projecting your own biases.
To all those who say she is making two full time salaries:
Where does it say she is being paid for full time hours all summer while working only part time? I don't see that in the post anywhere.
I'm getting paid for my corporate job, yet I can't freelance on my lunch hour or on holidays to earn extra money. A nanny can earn exra money on her day off, but as far as i am concerned these are not her days off. The op is paying her a RETAINER FEE.
It sounds like you are letting the prospect of another grueling ordeal of finding a nanny color your perspective on your situation and what your nanny has done. It will be difficult to find a new nanny, especially when X is virtually poaching yours, but maybe you can give it one more shot before firing her.
I think you should try talking frankly ASAP with your nanny. She has been with you since January, so for that reason alone, it is worth this attempt to set things straight. You should tell her very directly, and ASAP, like tonight, that you are unhappy about what she has told you -- that she has made an arrangement with X, etc. In this conversation, review with her your reasoning and purpose in deciding to take the kids to camp yourself. You mention that she forgets things. Maybe she forgot what your point was in deciding to take the kids to camp yourself. Or maybe you did not make it clear enough when you first explained it to her. So, explain to her in great detail your purpose in taking the kids to camp yourself, as if you are explaining it for the first time to a person who does not understand.
Also explain that it is inappropriate for her to take a job with X (or anyone else) without checking with you first. Explain to her that, had she checked with you first, you would have said no to this arrangment. And, explain that you would like for her to undo the arrangment she made with X, and why this is not okay with you.
With any luck, if she is as decent a nanny that you think she is, she will be aghast at her own transgression, will apologize and will tell X she can't do a regular babysitting gig for her.
If not then it does not sound like this will work out. She has shown poor judgement in accepting a job with someone else without checking with you first. It is even more egregious because she lives with you, but would still apply if she lived out. Furthermore, there is no way she should use the car for another job (particularly one that you did not first approve).
Good luck! Please let us know what you decide to do!
Lots of good points made, especially about the use of the car leaving OP's family open to liability, and the way the nanny planned this REALLY tight day for herself when she already has a punctuality problem.
I was the champion for MYOB when it comes to nannies doing moonlighting. In this case it really does sound like it's doomed to failure. Plus, she's living rent free, using a free car to run other people's families around, and using up the best part of the day's energy on someone else's kids. It just not polite, at the very least. She should be giving the best of herself every day to the employer that supplies her with all these perks, then give what's left over to another family. It sounds like the OP is about to get taken.
Ok, she should have talked to you first before accepting the babysitting job, but I think firing her is a bit harsh. She did say you are her first priority and if turns out she can't handle both she should quit the other gig. I remember when I was just starting out as a nanny and didn't make much money, I would work 60-70 hours a week just to pay the bills. Why don't you try communicating, if you can't do that then she's better off with another employer.
I know a lot of commentors above have made the assumption that this second job is during time when she's not being paid by you, but that wasn't my impression at all. Only the worst of employers (who don't deserve any loyalty from their nannies) would stop paying their full-time nanny while the kids are in summer camp.
So, based on my assumption that you are still paying her full weekly salary, you are completely correct to have a HUGE problem with this. Also, the fact that she didn't ask you if she could take on this extra work, but just informed you of her decision, that's a terrible red flag. Perhaps it can be explained by her age and inexperience, but to me, common courtesy (especially to the person signing your checks!) is not gained with age.
In my opinion it would not be unethical for you to fire her for what she's done. However, more importantly, you need to examine your own actions and learn for the future. When she first told you about her plans you should have immediately told her that this was unacceptable to you. Bottling it up has made things worse for everyone, especially you. Women have a difficult time dealing with their nannies as they would an employee at their jobs, and it's something you want to try and work on at every opportunity.
I wish you luck!
why don't you bring your concerns to her? I would hate for you to loose a nanny that you like because she took a job during her time off. Maybe make a deal with her that if she slacks on your children then she should quit the other job or something like that. Although, if she would have your children she would have them full time and may be burned out as well, so I do not think being burned out because of her doing the day job is as much of an issue as her being late to pick up your boys.
Also, it never was mentioned if you were paying her full time, just assumed above. Maybe if you were you could discuss a reduce in salary for the weeks where she is also being paid by the other family for time you are also paying her for?
4:10 What you don't seem to understand is that it is NOT her "free time." The nanny is being paid by OP for that time -- she just does not happen to be working which is actually incredibly generous of OP. OP is probably paying her so that IF she is needed by OP's family, she is available (e.g., one of the chiidren is sick and home from camp) and OP would like the nanny to use that time to refresh and rejuvenate herself for a busier time in the family's life.
If OP were only paying her from 4-8 p.m., of course nanny would be entitled to do whatever she wants (without using OP's car, of course).
And your penultimate paragraph just reveals you to be incredibly jealous of your employers and it's not pretty.
Let me speak from the perspective of the nanny....She was looking forward to a whole summer of nothing to do. From her point of view she was utilizing her time wisely. She probably sincerely felt that this time was her time. To do with as she wanted to!! Just the same as taking a evening babysitting job, and it sounds like she set it up to not interfere with you at all!! to even be available in the morning if you needed her! It is true that she should not take another job while working for you, but if you didnt comminicate that to her, she probably didnt know, and she definately didn't know how you would react to this!!
I think that you should definately speak to her about this! Talk about what you felt this summer would be for her, and that you feel that she is double dipping!! Ask her what she was thinking/feeling. As a nanny with a busy schedule, I would go nuts to have an entire summer off, maybe she is the same. Then maybe you can present some options, perhaps moving her to an hourly rate during the summer and discussing the use of the car (the comments regarding driving other peoples kids around are worth considering), or perhaps finding something else to occupy her time when she is not working with your boys, for example seasonal weeding of the toys/clothes, organizing the playroom/bedrooms, taking some classes or something like that. Please do recognize her smaller but still real obligation to this other family.
I think that it is very important to work through this with her though!! As you can see all over this website, finding a good nanny is very difficult. Use this opportunity to build the relationship between you, instead of throwing away what may be a long term high quality nanny. Remember nannies like moms dont come ready prepared for the job! We need to be trained to your expectations and the responsiblities of the job. Utilize this opportunity!!!
BUt after you have explained where the boundries are, if she then gets snotty or breaks your rules!! Fire her, THEN you have a reason
Hello,
I am the person who sent this in. First, I am paying her the same salary per week she has been making since January. During the school year, she works 730-600. When I interviewed her in January, I told her that I would like her to work from 4-8 every afternoon in the summer. I really believe in working hard to hold on to a good nanny. I have friends with nannies who have been with them since the children were born and when the children are in camp all day, the nanny is off. To me, that demonstrates how much the family appreciates the nanny. And to clarify the nanny would be driving my vehicle to work (4 minutes away) but would be using "X"'s car to transport the children if she wanted to take them to a beach or park. I am kicking myself because I do realize that more than anything it does feel like a territorial issue. I think I would mind less if she got a job at Starbucks in the morning. Just for something else to do. I didn't speak to her about it tonight, but tomorrow is Friday and I intend to speak to her tomorrow. Unfortunately as "X" is already involved, if I fire the nanny for this, "X" will find this story to be great fodder for her insipid gossiping.
And to the people who said that I was a generous employer for not reducing her salary during the summer, I am almost shocked. I have never heard of this. It sounds desperately unfair to the nanny. A salaried employer should be able to count on making her salary 52 weeks per year.
And looking for a nanny does seem so overwhelming. The search for our current nanny was exhausting and all consuming. I really don't want to start over. I'll have to sleep on this tonight. Thank you to all who answered.
One tiny point: OP mentioned that she would be handling the camp dropoff in the mornings so that the nanny could sleep in. But instead the nanny has taken on a job with hours beginning at 8:30.
So now we have a situation where OP is "filling in" for the nanny at job #1 so that she can go to job #2.
Op is paying for a job but then doing it herself so that X can have the same job done for her. In a way, OP is becoming an employee of X (by taking on tasks so that X can have hers done).
I think you already answered your question OP .... you said, "I'm getting angrier and angrier -
I don't think it would be possible for you to accept your Nanny taking this other job. And territorial or not, you are paying her full-time. Look at it as one of the above posters said, "a retainers fee". You want her to be available to you completely when the new school year starts .... so she continues to earn the same. I do not think it's a good idea to let "X" "borrow" (or even ultimately poach), your Nanny. She has a problem being late as it is -what do you think will happen with only a half hrs. room for error? As for the gossipy Ms. X, maybe your Nanny can come up with a good reason (lie), to turn down the job?
OP, are you a sahm?
That is what I am getting if you can handle the drop off and the summer schedule.
I really take issue with the poster who said that OP is doing the nanny's job by dropping the nanny off at camp.
I take my children to school everyday before I go to work. And to camp. It means the world to them! So if the mother can do it, for whatever reason- she should do it! These are the things your children will remember in 15 years.
Hi OP, It's 5:32 here. Thanks for your additional commentary. I can see why it feels like a territorial issue but I don't think it's really this at bottom. The nanny is overstepping her bounds and taking advantage of the situation while the kids are at camp. It's very different than taking a job at Starbucks (but even that should be okayed in advance by you, her boss). To those who said that your nanny has an obligation to X, I say no way. She just entered into this agreement yesterday and owes this woman nothing. It is not too late for your nanny to say no to X.
Forget about X and her gossipy, nanny poaching qualities. Who cares what she does or says. Don't waste your time thinking or worrying about what she will do. It's not worth it. People like that never are. It is highly inappropriate for X to approach your nanny without talking to you first. That is common courtesy. So forget her. It's about you and the nanny, and the happiness of your children.
As for the issue of the car, thanks for clarifying, but I still think that it is inappropriate of your nanny to assume that it's okay for her to drive your car over to X's house to work there, when you never approved this arrangement.
As a live in nanny, you are paying her a full time salary, plus room and board, providing use of the car, your home, etc. This means that she must abide by the situation as you set it and agreed upon it (in January). If you would like for her to lounge around the house, sort of being on call, and relax during the day, going on only short outings, then so be it. That is very reasonable of you.
After agreeing to accept the full time salary for the summer as you have set it up, the nanny cannot up and decide on her own that she is now going to work for someone else on a daily and regular basis. It is an obvious breach of agreement. At the very least, she should discuss this with you before accepting the job. More importantly, very few people would agree to her working for X daily, regularly, almost full time. No way. To me it's totally unacceptable for the nanny to work for X, especially without asking you first. So, I say talk to her in detail. If she insists upon it, then start looking for another nanny immediately, but don't fire this one until you have the next one totally lined up.
OP you sound like a very good employer. I usually defend a nanny's right to take other jobs in her free time, but this is a different situation. Since she is on retainer she should not have taken a job that is essentially during the hours you are paying her without discussing it with you first.
As she is young and inexperienced I think it was probably an honest mistake.
The total hours she will be working, 55, is a fairly common amount for nannies, even those who are getting long in the tooth. I don't think you need worry about her energy. What I would be very concerned about is her picking the children up on time. If you decide to go ahead with this arrangement, I think you should tell her that she absolutely must be there BEFORE pickup time.
Ultimately, do what is best for your children. If she is such a good match for them, and you think she will work out long term, sit down and have a good discussion. Communication is the key. Good Luck
A Nanny
wait....she has issues with punctuality but she's a live in??
Are you serious?! You want to pay someone full-time to work 20 hours a week! I want that job!
Look who cares. This post is useless. If it is bothering you that bad fire her. Why dwell on it. Its not like shes taking your kids with her while she works for the other family. Why not opt for a nanny share then? Work with her. Your nanny is a person too. Maybe she needs the extra money. If it bothers you that bad give her more money. Why come here? Why not just talk to her yourself?
What kind of parents do some of you nannies work for? The only questionable part of this post is that the nanny has only been there 6 months and she already gets the benefit of a virtually "free" summer. My nanny has had 8 weeks completely off for the past three years. We don't need her. We send the children to camp because they want to go, not for childcare purposes and we certainly don't want to lose our awesome nanny.
I think OP might feel differently 3 years down the road. And three years down the road, "X" would know not to approach your nanny. My nanny is known for being awesome, but I would take personal offense to anyone trying to cajole her in to working for them.
Mutual respect. Give and take. My nanny and I could write a book.
I don't care at all about what my nanny uses the car for. She is insured on our policy for a reason. If I couldn't trust her with a 4x4, why on earth would I trust her with my children while I was in France? That wouldn't make any sense.
I think the arrangement is inappropriate because we treat our nanny well and like a member of our family and the last thing I would like is some other person's children encroaching on her affection. Selfish? Maybe. But I love that she keeps up with my children on and off the clock. We're lucky that way.
We pay a very high salary compared to most. We also pay health insurance. Our nanny is paid on the books. Having a nanny is a luxury, it was never meant to be something that middle class America could afford. Evidenced on this blog is people attempting to live beyond their means. Knock off logo bags and faux nannies.
People call out the negative nanny sightings in Park Slope. Is it a coincidence that Park Slope employers usually 1) pay off the books, 2) don't offer health insurance and 3) "lay their nanny off" every summer? Parent boards are full of sleezey parents offering up their nannies for the summer in hopes that their nannies return to them in the fall. And so many will, no doubt because they love the children.
Any nanny who would tolerate being laid off during the summer or being paid a reduced rate (while a salaried employee) is either not a real nanny or does not understand that while there may only be a few of us, we are out there and for a bright, articulate and responsible nanny- we will gladly pay through the roof. After all, these nannies are taking care of our children.
I just can't figure out who makes me angrier on this board, the entitled and misguided nannies or the antitled and misguided employers.
7:13
You sound a bit "righteous" yourself, but you do make some valid points. I think that any Employer that pays a Nanny through the summer while the kids are away at camp, has every right to be "territorial". I agree that it may seem selfish, but the Nanny must look at the perks of a care-free summer, earning full-time pay, to appreciate why her Boss is unwilling to share.
tr...you are a mean b.....
would not want to work for you...crazy nut..
unfortunatly my keyboard was broken so i could not change from uppercase to lowercase...
opinion can be in lower case or uppercase...thats like if you are white or black who cares an opinion counts either way...
Grow up... and accept people as they are...
feel sorry for you...
I am a former nanny and now a parent. I was actually siding with the OP until she wrote that she would mind less if her nanny worked at Starbucks instead of taking this additional babysitting job. That just didn't sit well with me. Why? I don't get it. It certainly does sound territorial, which is stupid.
The real issues I first sided with you are:
1) I am assuming you are paying her the same rate of pay as in the fall.
2) She should only be using your car for work related purposes and perhaps personal but this should NOT include transporting other children.
I think you should let her go. It does not sound like a good match to me. I really do not understand as one poster said, why you need a full time nanny in the summer why you would want to pay one when you only need four hours of care. It doesn't make sense to me. What do you do for a living? Do you work?
I just don't get it. But definitely let her go, so that she can find a better situation and so that you can as well.
I disagree that nannies are a luxury. Maybe in the recent past, but over the last thirty or so years, it has become impossible for most families to survive on one income. So unless America is going to opt out of having children, childcare is necessary. And since we have aged out of the last generation of SAHMs-turned-grandmothers who used to watch children for free, we've gotta pay for it.
I think now would be a good time for the nation or individual states to license or register nannies. Many professions have done it. Clinical social workers were recently licensed in NY state, but anyone can still hang out a shingle and call themselves a "Counselor". If a profession is licensed, at least the employer or consumer can ask to see that certification. There will always people who will opt for the illegal, off-the-books completely unqualified nanny, but at least they will know what they are buying.
I was unaware when I made my comments that the nanny was still being paid a full time salary for only working p/t. In that case it is not her free time anymore, she is basically on-call for you. She is being kinda greedy then. I thought she was soing it to make up for the lost money. You need to sit down with her and tell her that having a full time job is not gonna work, and if she would like to do something part time that would be fine, let her know about the morning thing, your not gonna do her job so she can go do another its not fair. Also I commend you on keeping her pay the same, I would do the same. Most people take caregivers for granted and dont equate their jobs the same as the rest of us.
~Lindsey, sahm~
Nannies are NOT a luxury for the working mother. Nannies are a neccessity. If I had to rely on daycare I would lose my job because I can't make it home from work by 6 to pick them up. I am the only person supporting my children in my household. There is no one else contributing to their childcare costs, and there is no one able to pick them up and watch them between daycare and the time I get home. How is that a luxury, wiseass?
do you live in Ohio? I'll take that job :)
Is your nanny greedy?
Or could it be that you don't pay her enough?
Nannies are a luxury.
Real nannies.
Hoodrat nannies are a novelty enjoyed by many but at great sacrifice to your children.
Alot of greedy witches want a nanny so they can get her to clean and do a bunch of other crap. That isn't a nanny. That's a housekeeper who minds your kids.
Arrange your schedule so that you can be there when the daycare closes. After all with the shoddy nannies you are hiring off craigslist, it is completely unacceptable that they spend more than 8 hours at a stretch with your child.
Make sacrifices or don't have children.
The greedy nannies saying, "I'll take that job" based only on the fact that there is a time off/time to be lazy and get paid makes me sick. Whatever happend to working hard and just rewards?
I'll take a classist mother over a lazy, entitled nanny any day of the week. And twice on Tuesday.
I would talk to her and tell her you aren't comfortable with the arrangement and that you are disappointed she would agree to it without consulting you, since you are paying her full-time wages. If she gets defensive, that's the end. If she tells you she is glad you brought it up because she really doesn't want to cause any problem in this relationship, then she can quit the other job. She should tell the other woman she is unable to work two ft jobs, but will be happy to help her find another nanny, or whatever.
Maggie,
Is that your real picture? I've got to tell you, chief, it only adds to your bitchiness. You look like you're about to bite the head off a bat in it. You don't have kids, do you? Tell me you don't, please...
I waited until my husband came down and we sat down with the nanny and explained my concerns. It was helpful having my husband sitting next to me because he is quite calm and a great mediator. I was surprised to hear how this began. This is the first summer that I will have all three children in day camp all day long. One of the thoughts X put in my nanny's head was that I probably wouldn't appreciate her hanging out at my house all day. She further suggested that I flat out wouldn't put up with her using my pool. At the same time, she said how much her child (the young one who is not yet in camp) loved to swim and how she could use the pool all day long, play tennis, etc. I don't doubt this story because I know enough about X. My nanny said she would love nothing better than to have her days free but that X made her feel like she was going to need to find things to do everyday to be "out of my hair". (By the way, I am a SAHM). The Nanny called her about a half hour ago and left her a very nice message about needing to be on call for her full-time position. I feel a great deal of relief over not having to look for a new nanny (and having a sit down with the nanny to ask for her feedback on how she liked working with us). This incident has awoken still more negative feelings about "X".
This is just an curiosity thing, but if you (the op) are a sahm why do you need a full time live in nanny? I am also a sahm and would love to be able to have a part time nanny, God knows how difficult it is taking three boys ages 4, 2 and 2 months out in public alone. So it would be nice to have a few hours to run my errands. But I don't understand (again im just curious) if you are at home why would you need a full time nanny, let alone a live-in?
On the subject though I am glad you guys worked things out. Seems like X needs some talking too. I feel bad your nanny felt like she had no choice. Her quitting will be like a silent victory for you lol.
To the OP,
Not an attack, I'm just curious: why do you need a full time nanny if you are a SAHM? I myself and my husband are working class and I work from home so that I can be with my daughter. The time I spend with her is precious. We would love to have a lot of kids, but finances are such that if we did it would be tight. Things are comfortable now with us. We own our home, have a nice college fund for her, and we are happy. My question is, my time with my daughter is so precious, I have a hard time understanding how a woman who is lucky enough to not have to work and is able to spend alot of time with her kids chooses to have a full time nanny, and the time the nanny isn't there the kids are in summer camp.
Again, I'm not attacking you I just don't understand. Maybe you could explain it to me.
8:31PM,
OP has multiple children, you have one. I was a nanny for a SAHM who had several kids, and there is no way she could have taken two boys to hockey practice (with all their hockey attire), one little girl to ballet, and another little one to mommy & me class all in the same day three times a week. Even though kids generally have a different schedule during the summer, summer ends, and the hectic schedule always returns. I do in some cases (certainly not all) defend SAHMs with nannies. I don't defend the ones who have one child, a full time nanny, and spend the day shopping. :)
"why do you need a full time live in nanny?"
What business is it of yours?
I won't began to to tell you my experience, the number of children I have or how much I pay my full time live in nanny.
What I will tell you is that I pay her on the books. She and I both pay the applicable portion of taxes. If you want to come down on anyone with nannies, please come down on the lawless fucks and liberals that create a climate of comfortability for day laborers and illegals to prosper.
Do not ever judge anyone who hires an employee for any reason. I don't care if you hire someone to carry an umbrella for you. Just pay the person fairly and legally.
You can take great comfort in the knowledge that you are contributing towards the betterment of our country's financial picture. Providing jobs on the books. That's a GOOD thing!
Asshole
Maggie:
I think the "I'll take that job" comments were moms. That is a frequent comment on parenting boards when someone says they pay a high salary. They are saying in effect, wow, that even sounds good to me, way too good for a lowly nanny.
Right 10:44, said by mothers who are pissed that a nannies salary takes up such a percentage of their salary. Quit bitching and stay home with your children. Or send your child to daycare.
Wake up call, if the cost of a nanny bothers you, you are living WAY beyond your means. You sound a helluva lot like the douchebag driving the convertible nazi sled who has to give handjobs to bisexual Ibers in the Elmsford parking lot just for gas money.
OP:
Glad to hear you worked it out. Don't worry about X's gossip. I'm sure people cam see what a witch she is!
I'm sorry but to suggest that having a nanny is not a luxury is ridiculous. Working class people do not have nannies. (and by working class I don't just mean working) Only those who can afford luxuries have nannies. I was raised by a single mother with two other kids who worked full-time and we were in daycare,or with friends and family. In addition, I have worked as a nanny for 3 families over 12 years and they all lived luxurious lifestyles. If you are a working professional and you hire a nanny to care for your children you have chosen to sacrifice time at home for more income and hence more luxuries. If you are not a working professional you cannot afford to hire a nanny to give individual attention to your kids and you have to use daycare or other inexpensive childcare means. Having a nanny isn't always an indulgent luxury, but it is one.
To Kelly,
It's true that I only have one child. However, I have a sister who has three, twins plus one and she works from home also, like me so that she can be with her girls. They all have different activities, gymnastics, musical theatre, and soccer, all in different places and she manages. Again,my post was not an attack. However, I don't buy the multiple child argument because they all have different activities. There are plenty of people you can hire to merely transport your children and pick them up: a full time nanny is not really needed for transportation purposes. I am assuming that the children are not in the car 24/7, so why is there a full time nanny needed? And of course it's none of my business but this is an opinion board and I have the right to at least ask. I'm only curious.
p.s. My mother was a stay at home mom and she had five of us, and we all had different activities and she managed just fine. I just don't buy your excuse, sorry.
I am concerned that these "SAHM"s with nannies cannot express themselves without swearing, using the f word and such. It's funny. The people they look down on, minorities, low-income people, etc. are no worse than they are. Before my husband and I got married, we lived in a really bad part of town, the "ghetto" and I'm telling you, the black, spanish, and all of the poor white moms I knew didn't have such foul mouths as these wealthy privilaged women. It really makes you wonder. After reading 10:44's post, I'm thanking God that she does have a nanny, perhaps the nanny isn't a classless trashmouth like the mom is.
Just my two cents!
Classless trash talk aside, as a sahm with a full-time nanny, I would be somewhat annoyed at the ignorance of people who demanded an explanation. This is a national board. Perhaps where you live, such a thing sounds absurd, but where I live sahms with nannies are the norm. In fact shock and awe is expressed over any sahm without a nanny.
Oh honey, most sahms don't need nannies. I mean if they truly needed nannies; that would make them incompetent. Having a nanny is a luxury as I stated before. A luxury that is not denied to affluent SAHMs. And before you cry about how as a WOHM, you wish you could stay home with your child and that you didn't have a nanny, may I suggest this arguement is not for you. If you are working because you have to; hiring a nanny does equate with living beyond your means. In fact in so many such situations the "nanny" is not a nanny at all but someone relegated to the family's laundry and toilets.
If we could clarify once and for all who is a nanny and who isn't a nanny, I think this board would be called I saw your non nanny.
12:39,
I think you need to read more carefully. I never demanded an explanation. I actually just asked for one. There are actually many stay at home moms in my area who choose to have a nanny. I just wondered if someone could explain their reasoning. Why be so defensive? Either explain it or politely decline. No need to get defensive. It is in no way ignorant to ask someone for their point of view and to clarify their choices. No, you don't have to. But if you think it is ignorant for me to wonder, then you are the ignorant, intolerant one. I daresay your defensiveness stems from your guilt associated with your inability/lack of desire to raise your own kids. And if this is an incorrect assumption, then by all means explain yourself. That is, if you are able to do that without using the F word.
I am a nanny and have been for 13 years. I have no idea why this young woman thinks that it is ok to have accepted this job without first making sure you and your family were ok with it.
Is the woman picking her up or is she driving your vehicle? Will she receive her regular pay from you while also working for this other family?
I do no think of the time your kids are at camp her "off" hours as I have seen stated above. Off hours are days when you do not have to show up at work at all. What if one of your kids is hurt at camp or sick and needs to come home?
Also the other mother is at fault for not first, asking you before asking your sitter.
If she is good (which is hard to find) I would sit her down and explain to her that this is not ok with you and that you need to work out some special work arrangement for summer and then go back to your original agreement in the fall.
You have every right to be angry, I would be.
OP, I have not yet commented because I was waiting for you to speak to your nanny. I do not understand families not having an open line of communication in all job aspects. I speak to my bosses about everything, and in turn, they do the same, good or bad. In my contract it was suggested I not take extra babysitting jobs so that I could have down time when not working (55+hrs a week), and recharge for the next day. However with open communication, I asked them to reconsider some part time work on my off time and they are more than willing seeing how 3 years later they know I can handle it. It is all about open communication. Make it a point to sit down once a month or everyweek if you need to, so that all feelings of hostility are out in the open. I do not need to do formal meetings with my bosses, now I just tell them they are being slobs, lol. But great for you for speaking to your nanny. This may be a great time for her to take courses, do some projects, that sort of thing, so that she can have a summer full of memories. Good Luck
3:48 I am a SAHM with a full time nanny and 3 kids and I love it. Although to clarify, I actually have a nanny/housekeeper (in addition to a weekly housekeeper who does the heavy cleaning, ironing, etc). This means that I get one on one time with each child, I don't have to compromise on which activities my kids can do based on my ability to pick them up/help them with the activity, can make healthy, fresh meals for the family, host playdates freely, can take the kids to the doc one at a time, etc. AND I can socialize with my friends, rest if I'm sick or even just tired, work out, go to a movie with dh whenever we feel like it -- all of which makes me happier and a better mother.
Trade off is we don't spend a ton on clothes, vacations, meals out, fancy cars but spend it on the nanny/housekeeper as in investment in my family.
4:05:
My "hoodrat" nanny is better educated than you are, speaks eloquently, has tons of referenced childcare experience, a squeaky clean background check and is sweet to boot. I get compliments from half the neighborhood. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
I assume you are using the definition of Hoodrat nanny from urban dictionary? Disgusting.
As for sahms with nannies, most don't struggle with their bills. I don't know one who would pause to explain her choices to her neighbor, her mother-in-law, her own husband or her children. I do always wonder; what does a man think of the woman he chooses as a wife... to be the mother of his children...only to realize that she is incompetent and needs to outsource their entire upbringing? Perhaps that is just one more thing that drives him in to the arms of his lover.
Well put, J! Bravo.
J:
I think you're 100 % right. Of the couples I know, several are the sahm with nanny types. ALL of the husbands have complained to me privately at various points over the pst 7 years or so.
I would NEVER make the choice to sah AND have a nanny unless I physically or mentally incapacitated.
There is no justification for it unless you're a waste of space.
3:48 ~
I am surprised I haven't seen you get attacked yet for having a Nanny/housekeeper. For as long as I've been on this blog, the consensus has been that it is degrading to have your Nanny scrubbing your toilets. The only (light) cleaning she should be doing should be directly related to your children, like maybe picking up after your kids Arts & Crafts. Anything other than that, and I feel sorry for your Nanny.
10:13,
Sounds great, but in my opinion one of the problem with families today is that they just can't and won't say no to their kids. They want them to "have it all." In my opinion, call me old fashioned or conservative, there is nothing wrong with setting limits on what kids do and have. There is nothing difficult about making sure three kids get to three different activities without a full time nanny. If you only want one-on-one time with each child, it was pretty silly to have more than one. When I was a kid, we did stuff together, and my mom and dad gave us all individual attention but I don't recall a special "tim-trip" anywhere, we went as a family. Of course if there was a play I was in or a game of my sisters then we were all celebrated as individuals, and my parents treated us as individuals and praised us daily. The problem comes when the kids are over-scheduled and are allowed to do whatever they want to and the adults jump at their every whim. A family is a team, not a group of individuals who all put themselves first. I feel children should be taught about the family unit, and that for it to run smoothly you all need to work together. I think it is a big problem in society when moms say, well, we don't really have to work at this, we will just pay someone to do it. Part of any good marriage, any good family, is hard work. If you're not teaching your kids that nothing comes easily in life, they may grow up to be jerks.
Your situation may seem great now, but in the long run, all your children are learning is a sense of entitlement and that they have no responsiblity to anyone but themselves. (Kind of like you?)
I somewhat agree with you Ted. Except that I see these mothers on a daily basis. They get mani pedis on a weekly basis, have personal trainers 5 days a week (approx 125 per session = 625 per week), carry 2k handbags, spend 80k on a new wardrobe every season and their hair cuts cost 400. I could go on, but my point that these self indulgent people are so often busy living in their narcissitic me-me-me worlds that it takes bringing in a nanny for someone to recognize the basic needs of a child. (LOVE and affection).
10:13, your post made me laugh, sorry.
you wrote:
"AND I can socialize with my friends, rest if I'm sick or even just tired, work out, go to a movie with dh whenever we feel like it -- all of which makes me happier and a better mother.
Trade off is we don't spend a ton on clothes, vacations, meals out, fancy cars but spend it on the nanny/housekeeper as in investment in my family."
Come on, get real. First of all, I don't buy the "it makes me a better mother crap." Yes, everyone needs time to themselves, but how is taking on less responsibilty as a mom making you a better mother? I don't buy it.
Secondly, as far as your "sacrifices," well, we can read between the lines. You may think you are sacrificing, you may have convinced yourself, but take a harder look at yourself. For instance, you say you don't spend a "ton" on clothes, vacations and meals out: but you do spend some, and I'm willing to bet your "ton" is different from many people's idea of a ton! No fancy car? Is it used? I'll bet not. I'll bet it's not a sports car, but it is a top of the line, reliable, new SUV or the like.
Don't double-talk us. We may be nannies but we are smarter than you are.
Oh, and Ted? Well-said!
10:13 here and amused by your responses. You guys don't live my life (or live in NYC) so you can't really understand what having the extra help means to me or my family. I also have a feeling nothing I write would change your mind anyway and that's perfectly fine -- don't hire a nanny and a housekeeper if you don't want one.
As for digs about my competence, that's just low and mean (but I can understand it comes from a place of jealousy and insecurity, so I forgive you). I also realize thinking that it will result in a weaker family unit for me eases the pain of envy.
And J, if a man is going to cheat on his wife because she's hired household help he's not really worth having, is he?
10:09 what do you care what other people do with their time and money?
10:21 If you were smarter than I am, why are you working for me?
10:28,
You don't employ a nanny because you are smart, you employ one because you are lazy. The fact that you roped some dumb guy into letting you leech off of him and shirk your responsibilties says nothing about your intelligence, it only says you are greedy and were probably good in bed at some point. I don't doubt that your nanny is smarter than you are.
I don't care what you do with your money. I do understand 10:09's POV. I know many people who have nannies. Some of them are SAHMS but they are working hard to raise cultured children with integrity and high moral values. They do this by living a life that demonstrates compassion towards other people and intolerance of such things such as waste and hatred. These are very wealthy families.
The problem is.
Across town.
Across town there are very wealth families too. They complain about how their children are lazy and ungrateful and lack integrity. They scream at their children to tell the truth and study. Yet by example they lie, cheat and scam, even swindle. They cackle at jokes about minorities, laugh at minorities in peril on the evening news and treat their own parents like garbage.
Nanny or Not.
Sahm or Not.
Be an Example to your children.
And if you truly suck as a person as so many of you seem to,
please...
please...
hire yourselves a nice mormon or midwest nanny to instill some values in your children.
Whore are good in bed.
Men don't marry whores.
They marry the women they want to mother their children and build a life with.
As much as I know this is true, this does not explain why so many
women are outsourcing raising of their children. Perhaps it is because it has become socially aceeptable to do so.
In the future, it will be equally okay to outsource the sexual satisfaction of your husband. This, with the ever growing rate of male homosexuality will truly make heterosexual females superfluous.
paul you are wacky but I like you!
Why are you so angry, 10:45? Why so jealous? Do you work as a nanny? Are you a SAHM without any help? I have four children at three different schools so I have a fulltime nanny and a full time housekeeper because it just is not physically possible for me to get them all to school/activities by myself.
When I met and married my dh we were both students (I was in law school, dh in business school) and poor as mice. But we worked hard together and now I stay home. My husband loves me and his family and insists on me hiring as much help as I need/want. To be honest, 100k in housheld help salary/benefits is relatively insignificant for us (I know how lucky we are). Please don't even dream about talking about how much we love our kids. The ONLY reason I think it bothers you is jealousy. So work hard and get it for yourself if you're that smart.
as long as the children are being raised in a way that they have love, affection and someone to go to with problems and someone to look up to for moral guidance. As long as the children are safe and are aware of the suffering of others and demonstrate kindness and goodwill to others, what is the problem?
I agree, 11:17. It can only be jealousy. Which, "though shall not covet" Much?
11:17,
ted here, not who you were replying to, but I thought I would respond since you seem to be dead wrong.
Just because someone disagrees with the choices you have made does not mean they are jealous and it certainly does not mean they don't work hard.
I'm sure you love your kids, I would never say you don't. However, it actually bothers me that many women employ full-time help when they don't need to and try to make excuses for it and say it is better for their family.
It's great that 100k isn't much to you, but if I were in your shoes (my wife and I make about 60k combined yearly) I would be very careful to teach my children values, and to avoid putting material possesions too high on the list.
I also think that it is obvious that many of the SAHMs with full-time help are not that intelligent. If you went to college, you didn't really learn much about arguing your point. All you do is accuse people of being jealous, but you never really explain yourself. For instance, you say that you have three kids at three different schools, so you have a full-time nanny and housekeeper. Why must you have a housekeeper because of that reason? You don't make much sense, and you are actually the one who sounds defensive here.
As I said, I'm sure you love your kids and in your mind you are doing the right thing. But I agree with the posters who say simply, no you are not.
Be a mom, and stop making faulty excuses.
"aware of the suffering of others?"
Oh my god, I just can't take it anymore. You people are disgusting.
I feel so bad for your kids, I really do. The cycle will just continue. And I'll bet you don't know your kids very well. How can you, when you are never taking care of them?
ORIGINAL POSTER:
1. Let that nanny go!
2. It was rude for that woman in the class to solicit to your nanny. Very unclassy.
Ted, I think you are confusing me with another poster. I have 4 children at 3 different schools and I have a fulltime housekeeper because I like having an immaculate, orderly home and so my nanny and I can focus on the children rather than be distracted by housework.
I have a question for you, Ted (and Paul). Are you mannies?
Ted here, no I'm not a manny. I am a father and husband. And yes, I work full time. My wife works from home. I don't think I would have the skills to be a manny, but I do admire nannies. My wife is a former nanny and they have a very tough job. I respect it completely.
And no, I don't have you confused. I feel that a SAHM does not require full-time childcare to transport four children to different activities. Part-time could be explained but the only explanation for full-time childcare is that you are unplugged from your family to at least some extent. Your children are most likely overscheduled and over-indulged.
So Ted, would you care to explain to me how (working fulltime outside the home) you are more "plugged in to" your family than I am as a SAHM (with help)? What about your wife who has to work? Do you have a nanny at all? How many children do you have? Do you live in Manhattan? Do you have family in the area to help out?
About "overscheduled" and "over-indulged", I don't know. My kids are passionate about some things and maybe they are over-indulged by me the extent that I do everything I can to help them pursue those passions. And we're talking about piano, squash, drama, photography and chess here -- not junk food and video games.
Also wondering how "plugged in" with your family you truly are given you've spent a big chunk of FATHER'S DAY arguing with me (my kids are at a show they've been wanting to see with their father, who's never even heard of this board).
well i think that if you are paying her because she is a live in nanny and since you are taking it easy on her for 7 weeks she still does not have the right to get another job she has a job with you, you are paying her and she is working for someone else on your time. tell you what make her wake her ass up and drop the kids off and give her things to do. since she has nothing else to do but use your car to go some place else. if she really want to work with the other woman tell her she can and that you wish her luck and that you will need up to two weeks to get her replacement see what she does then. you have every reason to be mad.
Not a manny. Happen to work in the fashion filed and the women I work with got me hooked on this blog. So from time, to time- I opine.
Ted at 8:56: Exactly what I was thinking. I don't doubt that most mothers (and fathers) love their kids, but they show that love in the wrong way.
Your children need to learn to accept being told no. They need to understand they are not the center of the universe. I'm all for loving kids, obviously, but many parents today are creating selfish, greedy children who think the world revolves around them (because their parents' world does).
Teach your children to think of others first, and not just what THEY want. See how many changes that brings about.
To Claire,
I think it's a perfectly natural way for a hard-working Dad to spend a "big chunk" (a few hours on my morning off) of father's day: relaxing, drinking coffee, and going online which I enjoy. I also enjoyed the card my daughter made me and the presents my wife got me from her, especially the Simpsons pajamas. Since I have been out of the house at dinner with my family all evening, I wonder what a "big chunk" of Father's Day is to you. I hope your husband and the kids enjoyed the show. Too bad he spent ten times as much as we spent going out for pizza, ice-cream, to the playground and over my parent's house for Father's day, and I'm sure we had more quality time to talk. How can you talk during a show? Just a thought.
I daresay I feel very plugged-in to my family and their needs, and the main reason is that I am a strong influence on my child's values and their life in general. A parent is the most important influence someone can have, I'm sure you would agree.
No, we do not live in Manhatten. (Who would want to? I prefer clean air to dirt.) I do not have a nanny: my wife babysits for another child at our house the same age as my daughter and so we are lucky that one of us is home with her at all times. It is a choice we made, even though my wife is a certified teacher and could be making alot more money, we decided it was more important to have a parent raise our daughter. It doesn't matter which one: my wife wants to, and I work outside of the home, spending as much time as possible with my kid, who I love more than anything. As an aside, I totally respect stay at home Dads, my brother-in-law stayed with my twin nephews until they reached pre-school age and he did an awesome job.
Yes, we have family in the area to help out if needed. Part of our choice in purchasing our home was that it was close to our family, as we believe that cousins, aunts, uncles and of course grandparents are very important to a family.
Piano, drama, and squash (Oh, my) yes, they do sound over-induldged and overscheduled to me. It actually sounds as if they could use a twinkie every now and then.
As far as your comment that your husband has "never even heard of this board," nice non-subtle way of telling me I'm a pussy because I post opinions here. How nice for your kids that you're sexist too. Congratulations.
Claire, I read your post and one thing stuck out to me. Not to attack you or anything (although I do agree with some of the above posters, you are not really a SAHM, you are sort of a WIFLIM, a 'when I feel like it mom') but anyway, about telling other people, well, you have family in the area. I think most people in your situation with your personality type wouldn't want to rely on family, you would rather have a nanny-type person who you have control over. See, family would be doing you a favor and that would be their choice. A nanny would be your employee. (Unless of course it's because your family can't stand you.)
I just thought it was interesting, that's all! :)
Ted,
I don't know 5 people who don't know about this board. From my father-in-law to the doorman to our own wonderful nanny.
And Claire-
my experience with stay at home mothers is as follows. The mothers hire the nanny and tell her that they will split the kids between them, that the nanny will never have both or all three of the children. Two months later, the nanny has both children on her lap while SHE (the nanny) is at her dentist appointment. But mom is still sticking to her story.
I have a lot of respect for moms who say, I don't want to give 100 percent of my time to my children. I have my own interests. Rather than have my children's on the sidelines, I choose to hire a nanny to keep the children's needs front and center.
And finally-
I think you are mostly all wrong about children being overindulged.
I know many affluent families and in every family where the parents lead by example (regardless of how many beach homes they have), the children are considerate, conscientious and wonderful people.
You cannot be a hypocrite.
You must lead by example.
heidi,
I agree with most of what you said. However, there are many affluent people who are the opposite of what you described. Have you read those books "gossip girl" about rich kids who live in New York City? It is very interesting, I read some for a class I was taking on contemporary teen literature and it was very eye-opening. It is based on true stories and it really shows that certain lifestyles are horrible influences on the morals of today's kids.
Hmm, let's see Ted. You posted at 8;56, 11:27, 3:46 and 9;24 today. Seems like you spent an awful lot of time surfing the web on Father's Day rather than interacting with your wife and daughter. But I'm glad you enjoyed your pizza.
As a fulltime, WOHD to 1 child who doesn't live in Manhattan I hardly see how you're qualified to comment on my situation. As to the interests I listed, they are the interests of 4 different children and I'm sorry squash offends you. It's actually a really great sport and my kids love it. You also mentioned that your wife works as a nanny -- what's wrong with the care she provides that makes you so opposed to hiring nannies? That's the only reason I can think of that you are so opposed to having two women who really adore my kids (me and my nanny) take care of them.
Emily K,
My older children will actually be spending the latter half of the summer with my parents at their home (in another state) and we always fly my mother in when dh and I travel together so, no, I have no problem with asking my family for help. In fact, in my family we don't see it as a favor at all -- we actually love spending time with each other. BTW, are you a nanny or a SAHM?
Ted, about my husband not knowing about this website -- it's not because of his gender -- he just doesn't enjoy spending time on the computer (the way I and, apparently you, do). It's nothing at all about gender so please don't be so insecure about your manhood. Just curious, have you ever lived in Manhattan that you think all it has to offer is "dirt"?
Heidi,
While that may be true in other households, that's not the way it works in my house. Our nanny (God bless her) has been with us for 12 years (since my first was born). In trying to see where you're coming from, are you a nanny, a WOHM or a SAHM without help?
Claire, you have mental problems. You must be really screwed up if you feel the need to answer every single post individually.
It also sounded to me, as Ted said, to be a sexist comment and nothing at all having to do with enjoying computers! (The comment you made about YOUR HUSBAND never having HEARD of this site.)
And I don't think the guy who you were referring to sounds at all like he is insecure. You're just pissed because he put you in your place! (which is obviously not with your kids.)
And just wondering: if your kids spend the whole summer with your relatives, when do you see these kids? Do you even know their names?
claire if your nanny has been with your for 12 years, what is she? Is she a homeless deaf mute that your found on the street and cleaned up? I can't imagine any normal person who would want to spend that much time with you.
It is quite ammusing the be reading the comments left on this post- most having nothing to do with the OP.
I personally do not think everyone should be judging everyone so much. Everyone is living their own lives and doing as they please and who cares if a SAHM has a nanny it is their choice. Of course people are going to have their own opinions and as long as the mother is still completely involved in the children's lives and feels they need help to get their children places, who is it to say whether that is right or wrong? Personally, I feel that the SAHM (and I don't even know if there are any on this board) who ignore their children basically 24/7 (as in the chick lit novels) should take a reality check as to who is raising their children- but again it is what they want to do.
That being said, same goes for working mothers who want to employ a nanny. Who are others to say they are "living beyond their means" when by reading a post you surely cannot come out with a ton of information to make that quick judgement. The working mother may be paying her nanny just as much or more than you and making sacrifices (or not) in other ways, and her "means of living" are the way she wants them to be. She may not place as much emphasis on somethings as other people.
Just as making a quick judgement on a SAHM with a nanny probably cannot be done from a quick post.
Really with these posts people are getting away from the real issues at hand and are so quick to judge and point fingers when all you are doing is reading a quick post and not living the persons actual lives. To some people nanny's are luxuries while to others who may not want their children in daycare they are neccessities and they arrange their spending to show that. No one mentions what they pay their nanny, so who knows who gets more. In regards to the "hoodlum" nannies- just because someone is a working mother does not mean they skimped on hiring their nanny, although who knows who skimps on hiring their nanny, by seeing some of these bad nanny sightings it seems like a lot of people do.
I just think less judging and more responding should be done. Oh and just in case anyone is wondering I am neither a mother or nanny, just a recent college graduate who enjoys this board :)
10:32 (and I suspect 10:33), responding to each poster who has asked me a question is, IMHO, polite. If good manners constitutes a mental problem in your book, carry on with your bad self, my friend.
And I am not "pissed" at Ted. I don't get "pissed" at strangers on the internet who have no impact on my life. But you seem pretty angry yourself -- why so grouchy?
Finally, what is your background and interest in this issue? Nanny? SAHM without help? I've put myself out there and tried to answer a question some posters asked -- why hide behind "anonymous" unless you're ashamed of what you're saying?
10:33 Let's say I did take a homeless, deaf mute off the street, cleaned them up and turned them into a nanny with a generous salary, paid all of her taxes (as well as my portion), gave six her weeks vacation, paid for health insurance and set up a retirement account (as well as purchasing a home for her in her native country which she can rent out), wouldn't that be a good thing? If I did that, I think an awful lot of people would be very happy to spend time with me.
What exactly do you have against homeless, disabled people? Not very nice of you. They're human, just like you and me.
A question for you: why so angry? and what is your background and interest in this issue? You know mine now -- what about yours?
10:32 -- Don't get mad at me again but I forgot to answer one of your questions so here's another post for you. I actually spend the summer going back and forth between NYC and my parents' home so I get to spend the summer with my parents (and kids) and dh comes out for parts as well. I think it's really important for kids to spend as much time with grandparents (and my aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) as possible and this is one way we can manage given that we don't live in the same area.
Anyone who knows anything knows you need to go West or North to get your nannies. You don't go South and you sure as shit don't go South-East.
This has nothing to do with anything. I'm just advocating for a better class of childcare provider. Try Boston, Main & North Dakota. I have friends who have luck with Northern Cali gals, but they tend to be a bit too crunchy to take to the club on special occassions.
I wouldn't write a blank check for every Boston nanny; wasn't that the hometown of the infamous stripper-porn star nanny? What ever happened to her?
To: 6:49AM:
It is not an 'excuse', it is an EXPLANATION based on actual events. You don't have to believe me. I was a nanny for many years, and I have encountered different sisuations, and that is why sometimes I defend parents, and sometimes I defend nannies. Just because you and your family can do it all doesn't mean that parents who need help should refrain from seeking it. I have said the following before and I will say it again:
-our ancestors got help from the enire village raising their children, so to think that we can do it without help is asking for antidepressants.
-just because a parent decides to stay home and raise his/her children does not mean that they have to be alienated and denied any help.
-Some parents are lucky enough to have family to help them with the kids. Others have to create a family by hiring paid help. Sad, but neccessary.
I addition to the above, I believe that any parent experiencing prolonged "baby blues", and is not fortunate enough to have family around should consider hired help if they can affort it. If full time help (not excessive shopping/party hopping) cures the blues, then get the full time help!
You are right about having your own opinion on things. However, that does not give you the right to imply that I am a liar. I did work for the mom whose situation I mentioned, and nothing you say will ever change that.
SAHM here:
I don't make as much as "clare"and some other posters, not nearly as much. However, if I were lucky enough to make that much money I would never dream of using it for anything but the betterment of my family. There are a lot of things that money could go to other than a nanny. Why not bank it and save it for your kids so that they can travel, put a down payment on a house?
You would be surprised by how many people I know who seem "well off" but financially are really dumb and their stuff is mortgaged to the eyeballs.
You can't judge a book by it's cover.
Kelly,
Well said. You make an especially good point about childcare being more community-based in the past and about the need to re-create that through family or through hiring help.
I am really concerned by the hostility I'm seeing toward women who choose to hire help -- why so much hatred and anger? And I have yet to see one good argument here for why it's not better for children to have one more loving, attentive adult in their lives in addition to their parents.
I firmly believe that if parents had more support in raising their children, either in the form of family or a great nanny, the incidence of child abuse/neglect in this country would be a LOT lower.
Lani,
I agree with you that people shouldn't overextend themselves financially at the cost of their children's future. But it's been my personal experience that our nanny's presence in our lives is for the betterment of our family. How could having someone as loving and smart as her in our lives not be? We are fortunate that we are easily able to provide for our children's future AND improve their present by having a nanny. Trust me, I know how lucky I am and I'm grateful for it every day.
Claire,
There is nothing wrong with having a loving person in your home in addition to the parents. But two things: first, she is being payed to love and care for your kids. The point about a village raising a child was when people did it for free, because they wanted to, not people hiring others to be their family member. Second, it is debatable how much time a SAHM with a full-time nanny and a full-time housekeeper spends with their family at all. Of course in your mind you are spending loads of time with them, and that may be true for you. It is not true for many, many wealthy mothers. I don't know you so I can't say about you one way or another, I would have to know you.
I don't have any hostility towards you. My family and I are no way rich! However, I think some people get really heated about it because it's a sensitive issue. We see so many poor people in our country, (I live in a suburb of Providence, RI) and I think it's hard for some people who live in different parts of the country, and in different areas of your city as well, to stomach a family who appears to be passing off their kids to hired help when they don't have to work, and when many of us work so hard. Again, I'm not putting you down, but I do understand why some people would be angry at your lifestyle when many mothers and dads work their butts off just to make sure their kids have food on the table. We tend as a society to see "working class" people (Like me and my DH!) and lower-income as lazy when in actuality it's just not true. I think you made a good point in one of your posts, or maybe it was someone else, well anyway someone said "you don't know me or my situation." Great point: we have no idea who has student loans and who never had to take any out because their parents paid for school, we don't know how many people when they were young were given a car as opposed to having to afford one, we don't know who has experienced depression or death, we don't know who has special needs kids.
To wrap up, I think many people are hostile towards you (I'm not!)because they see your lifestyle as over-the-top and crazy when you put it next to the many hard-working people who don't have cable tv, who's kids wear used sneakers, who are trying like hell to afford the rent and can't buy a home because of their credit which may have been ruined when they were young due to financial hardship and needing food! I myself struggled to repair my credit after a similar situation. I put myself through college by working three jobs (at a daycare full time, manager of a skating rink on weekends, and a night security receptionist at my college 20 hours a week) and I got my BA, but I went into debt not just because of student loans but because I needed money for food and living expenses. My mom had just died of ovarian cancer and my dad had a nervous breakdown so I had nobody.
It took me 7 years to repair my credit after I met my husband but I did it and we now own our home. (Yay!) We are good parents and work hard. We live a good, honest, healthy life. My point is it's true that you don't know someone until you have walked a mile in their shoes. You can see by my point of view why some people may be distainful of your lifestyle in light of their own. It is not right to be jealous, but it is normal to think, "wow, what did she do that I didn't?" And honestly, it's sometimes just the luck of the draw in life.
I wish you so much luck and pray that you will make the right choices with your good fortune and teach your children that hard work and not just circumstance brings rewards.
Dear M, I just want to thank you so much for your post -- your goodness and kindness shine right out. Looking at my posts in the light you present it I realize how it rubs people the wrong way, to the extent they would call me a mentally disturbed, lazy, stupid, a whore, the worst to me, a bad mother. I in no way meant to suggest that SAHM's who can't afford (or choose not to) hire help love their children any less than I do. My children are my life and I would give up every stinking thing for them in a flash. As I posted before, I wasn't born into this life and don't believe I deserve it any more than anyone else does (I wish every mother could have the support she needs) but we did work hard for it and, more importantly, were extremely lucky. I just don't want women who want or need support to feel like all the things I've been called here. Thanks and my best wishes to you.
Claire,
I think you rub people the wrong way more for your need to go on and on. You don't strike me as having too much at all. You don't even strike me as comfortable. Comfortable to me is paying 50k a year in property taxes to live in a beautiful NY suburb and then refusing to associate with the parents who live there who actually send their children to those very fine public schools. A part time nanny? How about a laundress, an errand boy, a personal assistant, a weekend nanny...
So calm down Claire.
10:47 you need to learn how to read and might benefit from those fine public schools. I don't know who you're referring to but I don't have a part-time nanny. I have a fulltime nanny because I'm raising 4 kids in Manhattan. As to those other things you've mentioned, I won't be disclosing any more about my life because it sure is bringing out the ugly in lot of people.
any sahm with 4 children who doesn't have a full-time nanny would probably be classified as "poor" in my circle.
12:06,
Why? Won't some moms just choose not to have one? And would a SAHM without a full time nanny even be in your circle? Sounds like not if you call her "poor" behind her back.
What is your "circle" like? It doesn't sound like the type of circle I would want to belong to.
There are many kinds of "rich" and "poor" in this world.
Funny story: when I was little my dad had his own business which he lost during the recession in the 80's, but at his office he had so much white paper! I thought we were rich because my Dad brought me home all the white paper I wanted. Pretty funny, huh? It's all about perspective.
Get some.
There are all kinds of poor.
"Rye Poor"
means your children go to public school
"Greenwich Poor"
for Sahms with one child and no full time nanny.
"Mamaroneck Poor"
Mom is a part time nanny
"Ignorant."
Mom who judges people by how much money they have.
Ted:
Pizza and ice cream at one meal? That is a lot of the wrong kind of fat! For someone who is so critical of other's parenting decisions, that shows rather poor judgement on your part.
To anon @ 3:08
You are an idiot. Get off the boards.
It's wrong to fire her for the babysitting she does on her OWN time!! You can not tell her how to spend her free time.
If you are paying her by the week, not by the hour, then she should not be going off to another job.
hey 3:12 you feed your kid whatever kind of heartclogging cr@p you want but don't try to tell us it's a good choice. The thought of pizza AND ice cream at one meal makes me gag -- sheer gluttony.
you don't fire someone for being hardworking. give her the option of staying with you exclusively.
To 5:38,
I think the poster you are referring to said that he went out with his family to celebrate Father's Day. It's pretty common to go out and indulge while celebrating a holiday or special occasion with pizza, and a dessert too.
What do you give your kids for their birthdays? A birthday carrot? You sound like a barrel of fun! (Not!)
5:38
I highly doubt you've abstained from Pizza and ice cream your whole life. I bet you've even had both in the same day. It's called MODERATION. Everything in Moderation. BTW Pizza isn't that bad for you. He didn't say he went everyday for every meal. Get REAL!
lynne and lindsey -- I get the feeling you both could probably stand to lose a few . . .
anon @ 10:42, the pizza and ice-cream nazi,
You are grasping at straws here. You have nothing to say. Now get out.
10:56 -- No. Now go shove some more ice cream in your face.
pizza and ice cream make you gag?
what about pizza and ice cream?
prime rib and ice cream?
spinach salad and ice cream?
I think you are a tubster.
You have serious I S S U E S.
I eat ice cream most every night.
Spend my days chasing around twin boys & jog for an hour every evening.
Team Ted!
11:22 Better knock off the ice cream lard a$$ -- all that saturated fat is clogging your brain -- you're repeating yourself (FYI "pizza and ice cream" are the same thing as "pizza and ice cream", moron). I hope you have a smart nanny so your kids don't grow up to be as dumb as you.
7:54, (the "ice cream nazi", I love it!)
You must be the most pathetic person on this board.
Do you have any social opinions, or do you just like to call nameless, faceless people on the internet fat? I'm guessing you didn't go to college or if you did you didn't learn how to put forth an opinion that is interesting or intelligent.
I also eat ice-cream alot, and my kids love it! We always have Ben & Jerry's in the freezer and they love ice-cream sandwiches too. I am average weight and height and my kids are all at 50% for weight.
You sound like you either A)have mental problems or B)are trying to be amusing and are failing miserably. You're just not a funny gal. Try harder!
Melanie you are easily amused if you think "ice cream nazi" is funny. I shouldn't be suprised if you think college is the only place to go to learn how to put forth opinions. And what opinion are you exactly put forth here? That you regularly stuff your face and your kids with tons of saturated dairy fat? Way to go mom! As for average weight/height, in this country that's about a size twelve which, from a health and aesthetic perspective, is waaay too fat. Judging by your use of the term "gal" I bet you live someplace where everyone is as chunky or chunkier than you are so you don't even realize how fat you are. Trying living on the coasts and you'll see what I mean.
Actually, 11:50, "average" is determined by your physician, and your weight should be in tune with your height. A size 12 is fine for some people and healthy.
You sound very immature to me. I also thought "ice-cream nazi" was amusing, and a good name for you!
You sound pretty ignorant to me, not a very nice person.
Is there a reason you are on this site? I can't see the point in insulting strangers for your own amusement. It seems so sad to me. And you are always on here, at all times of the day. Are you unemployed? If so, you should change your attitude, maybe people sense how hostile you are and that is why they are not hiring you. I'm just guessing: I would have to know you to say, but from your many posts (we can tell it's you even though they are anon) it seems as if you are not the kind of person I would like to know. No offense. And I agree with above posters, I see nothing wrong with a little ice-cream once in awhile, pizza too, if it is done in moderation.
-m.
1150, wow, you sound like an a@@. Seriously, you're going to have children with eating disorders. Get some help, quick.
I think 1150 needs to sit down with a box of Twinkies. And while at it, should pull the one stuck up her you know what.
So which posts are mine, m?
I just let my 4 year old have a pizza hut pizza and a dairy queen ice cream. He loved it!!!
It looked great.
But, I don't eat ice cream every night. If I did, I'd be a size 12 and that is not healthy, no matter what people on this board say. Even slight amounts of fat on older women greatly increase the change of various forms of cancer. You have to choose and resist as an adult, lots of people don't get that and think just because the grocery store sells it, it must be ok to eat and the rest of us are just "nazis"
I just let my 4 year old have a pizza hut pizza and a dairy queen ice cream. He loved it!!!
It looked great.
But, I don't eat ice cream every night. If I did, I'd be a size 12 and that is not healthy, no matter what people on this board say. Even slight amounts of fat on older women greatly increase the change of various forms of cancer. You have to choose and resist as an adult, lots of people don't get that and think just because the grocery store sells it, it must be ok to eat and the rest of us are just "nazis"
to size 12 @ 2:56:
Your posts are not interesting enough to read twice. Just thought you should know.
As far as a size 12 never being healthy, are you a doctor? I doubt it and if you are you must be a crappy one. You should talk to your doctor about your misinformation about cancer and about your ignorance on body types. He/she will set you straight I'm sure.
1:21,with your info on different kinds of poor: Rye, Greenwich & Mamaroneck, YOU CRACK ME UP!! Too funny!!!!
from a mom in Larchmont :)
to mom in larchmont,
It bothers me that there is so much classism on this board and you people have kids that you are just passing it on to. They will grow up to be just like you, and that's too bad. I hope they don't become teachers or do anything that has an influence on kids: you are ensuring that they will learn your desire to label people and develop a limited perspective on life and people.
It bothers me even more that you are petty enough to feel the need to say where you live. It's not very impressive in light of your prejudice.
You may have a big house but you are still a small person.
The turn this post has taken-
regarding ice cream-
probably the worst turn a tangent has ever taken.
Thanks to dipshit who started it all. Collapse thread.
I think Larchmont mom said where she lives because she knows the areas spoken of in the "poor" comment.
Don't take everything so seriously.
signed,
Armonk Mom
2:56 I have to agree with you. Excess fat on the body -- even in small amounts -- is much more likely to lead to diabetes, heart disease, hypertension and cancer. This is particularly true in the case of the type of saturated fats contained in foods like pizza and ice cream (as opposed to olive oil, nuts, avocado, salmon, etc). I think the women who eat this way feel the need to yell nazi so they can continue to be in denial about eating their way to an early grave. Sure hope that nightly ice cream tastes good to them because it's going to cost them a LOT.
I enjoy ice cream
(and there are all kinds incl low fat and no fat and good ole all fat)
I run every morning.
I have a 7 percent bodyfat.
I agree with the ice-cream thread getting to be a bit much.
I love how these SAHM's who do not make the time for their kids but always find time to call people fat on the internet. Bravo. You suck as a mom. And you have nothing intelligent to contribute to the discussion, are completely unskilled and so all you can do is insult people and talk about what a great body you have. I hope you enjoy your body because your kids have an airhead for a mom. I would honestly rather be overweight than a mom who is unskilled and stupid.
Enough with the ice-cream. Can we please focus on the children? Who cares who eats what or who lives where? Very sad indeed.
4:17 Teaching children healthy eating habits and modelling it ourselves is being a good mom. I'm sorry your nightly ice cream pigout means more to you than the longterm health of yourself and your family.
And what are you doing on the internet? I sure hope you're not posting at work (as a nanny or wohm) because that would be STEALING from your employer (but consistent with your other piggish habits). Time to pry those fat thighs out of your chair and get back to work!
528-
you are the biggest asshole I have come across in a LONG TIME. Get back to the subject at hand or go to the chatroom.
Arffff
6:23 You're a dog as well as a pig? Very interesting. Oh well, I guess the truth really, really hurts.
To the ridiculous person who ripped up this thread, go post your banal observations on Craig's List. You have added NOTHING to this board or this thread.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
NO MORE!
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