Thursday

TB or not TB?

OPINION
I have a question about vaccinations. I live in a state that accepts philosophical exemptions and I refuse to allow my daughter to be vaccinated. But what about your MB wanting you to get a flu shot? I like my job very much but haven't told MB my views yet. Please tell me how I should tactfully approach this? - Anonymous

44 comments:

RBTC said...

i agree with with your philosophy about caution with vaccines, but - there are people who are very strict in wishing to enforce them - hopefully she will be tolerant - let us know what happens if you have time

flu shot is for wimps said...

This is such a difficult position to be in. A few years back when swine flu was at its peak, my boss wanted everyone to get the shot. I was the only one that insisted against getting it. I got the swine flu and was out of work for 2 weeks.

You don't have to get a vaccine if you don't want. You better be diligent about hand washing and keeping things extra clean. The last thing you need is for MB to have a big fat "I told you so" hanging over your head.

Calanna said...

I don't see the need to go into any detailed explanations (no matter how tactfully you do it, you may come across as preachy).

If this wasn't mentioned as a condition prior to you being hired, I would simply say, "I'm sorry but I do not want to get a flu shot. I will make every effort and take every precaution to avoid being exposed.".

Personally, I myself have never gotten the flu shot and I have never had the flu. I would find it offensive if my MB pushed me to get one.

Village said...

The next time they do it, get down on their level eye to eye, and tell them that hurts your feelings and they mustn't do that anymore.

Ask them if they would like to develop a happy routine for saying hello to you. The more fun it is to greet you, the easier it is for MB or DB to leave as well. Children love to be individually greeted as adults, and they crave routine and repetition as well.

You might want to give MB a heads up, as you want her to be supportive, not surprised.

Village said...

A nanny who doesn't value vaccinations shouldn't work for a family who does.

Her vaccinated charges, although not sick, maybe be carriers of germs which the nanny then takes home to her child/ren.

If one doesn't vaccinate, every contact becomes a potential exposure for a child, and the child is left completely exposed.

Lyn said...

My Husband gives me mine every year. Sometimes he brings them home from the hospital to try a "sneak" attack lol! I hate shots. I have nothing against the vaccine but I am a 5 year old when it comes to shots. Ugh.

So your MB wants both you and your daughter (who I assume you take with you to work) to get a flu shot? Correct?

If so, are you okay with getting one yourself and just against giving one to your daughter? If so I'd let your mb know that you will be getting a flu shot this year but that you are morally opposed to giving that particular vaccine to your child but will make sure that you continue to properly and often wash her hands (or use alcohol based sanitizers), bump up the amount of vitamin C that you give her (recent medical studies say bumping up to a large dose MAY prevent you from being as susceptible to many strains of the flu). --That last part was not from me. You can thank Dr. Husband for that last one. Although, he still recommends getting a flu shot. But I see where you are coming from.

BrooklynMomma said...

You have the right to refuse a flu vaccine (and any vaccine for that matter). If it would make MB feel better, you can point out that the flu vaccine only protects against a specific strain and does not guarantee that you wont get sick from a different strain. As well, basic practices like washing hands frequently, covering your cough/sneeze and not coming in to work when you are obviously ill would provide protection against the flu. MB cannot make you get the vaccine, this is totally up to you.

a mom said...

As a mother, I wouldn't hire a nanny that didn't believe in vaccinations to care for my children. I guess if you want to keep your job you should keep your mouth shut....but frankly, I think if you refuse to vaccinate, you have a moral obligation to 'warn' others of your decision to put yourself and others at risk for vaccine-preventable diseases. I also have a dear friend who lost her 4 yo daughter to the flu so I'm a bit biased.

yaurn said...

Man, I expect you'll get a good argument going here... though at least it should be better controlled with moderation.

My parents were very anti-vaccination when I was growing up, so I didn't get a lot of them (Tetanus and Polio being the exceptions). I understand their reasons, but nonetheless got measles, mumps, rubella when I started making my own medical decisions (at which point the vaccines had been around long enough that I trusted them more or less) - this is just to give you some background on my vaccine perspective (it's kind of mixed).

I'm now a nursing student. Before I started school, I *had* to get updated on all the vaccines I was missing - another dose of MMR, Hepatitis B - or have proof of immunity. I also have to have yearly flu shots (which I would honestly never otherwise get, since there are so many bazillions of strains of flu and the vaccine is purely guesswork). BUT I chose a profession that requires it. There is no wiggle room. If I want to be a nurse I need to get the shots, and so I decided the pros outweighed the cons.

SO you can discuss with your MB about why you personally object to getting the vaccination, and if she changes her mind, then great - no shot (and with the flu shot in particular, I really do think it's a conversation worth having, since the reliability of the vaccination is so iffy to begin with). However, she has a right post-conversation to still ask you to be vaccinated, and then it's your choice - job or shot. Children are very vulnerable to disease, and I understand her desire to protect her child(ren) in whatever way she sees fit. Likewise it's your right to choose not to vaccinate yourself or your daughter.

Wow, I just wrote a ton - I'm obviously kind of torn on the subject of vaccination (I see both sides). Short-version advice - read up on flu-shot pros, cons, everything before going into the conversation so that you're as well-informed as you can be before talking with your MB. But be prepared to make a decision yourself if she sticks to her view.

melissa said...

My MB just asked me to get a flu shot. The thing is, I'm kind of anti- flu shot as well. I don't have any awesome reasoning other than the one time I got a flu shot, I had the worst flu I've ever had that year. Honestly, if I were you, and if your MB hasn't brought it up, don't bring it up either. My families in the past have never said anything to me about it, so maybe you'll get lucky.

Caring Mom All Day said...

A mom, if the vaccinations work, why would you fear being around someone who isn't vaccinated, if you are?

We chose not to vaccinate our youngest & that's the route were more comfortable with overall. I wouldn't say though that I am against ALL vaccinations in ALL situations. An example would be a nurse. She or he is around a vulnerable population where disease spreading would be easy, given the toxic environment of the antibacterial drug resistant hospital grounds. Hospitals are filthy. A nurse would be at a higher risk of catching AND spreading disease. Another example FOR vaccination would be for one travelling to a country were a given disease is common place. I wouldn't have to warn someone who has vaccinations....don't they believe in their vaccination?

I'm just not willing to take the risks associated with most vaccinations anymore-at this point. A certain portion of the population WILL be damaged by vaccination. Proven by the fact that the government routinely pays vaccination victims money for damages caused by vaccination. Id rather take the risk of the disease. Especially when you talk about things like the HPV vaccination. The vaccination has caused sudden death in healthy children. HPV never causes sudden death. If you're sexually active, you should be getting a yearly pap. HPV is easily caught early & HIGHLY treatable. So many vaccinations are new (bc ingredients are changed often) so you're being experimented on. Same thing goes for new drugs (every couple of years lawyers place ads on tv to assist victims of drugs that were found to be dangerous-once released in the open public). Just like birth control such as Yaz, it takes the open population to try out the drug or vaccination before the truth of the side efffects are known. I'm not willing to be experimented on.

Its an interesting topic. If the family doesn't vaccinate their children, but the nanny is vaccinated (or vise versa) I don't see the conflict. Because each side has accepted a level of risk, in their decision.

Disclaimer: I am interested in hearing peoples opinions re:vaccination. I am not trying to tick anyone off. I think we can all agree to disagree peacefully. Its an interesting topic. I just don't want anyone to think I'm trying to be a lil pill. :) I enjoy intelligent discussion & enjoy hearing all sides of the spectrum.

We need peace & unity.

Anonymous said...

You can just say you got it already- I mean she won't ask for proof. That way you can just say they didn't give you a paper as proof.

But honestly as a nursing student- just get it. I highly recommend it. You don't want to be out sick for an unpaid period of time over not getting a $20 flushot. Sure you can still get a different strain but the more immunity you have the better you will feel. A student nurse.

Dr. Juris said...

HPV is not highly treatable. It may clear some people's systems, but not all are that lucky, and no treatment or cure for high risk HPV exists. I wish the vaccination had existed when I was a child. (I also think all children should be vaccinated against it, as 80% of all women will have some form of HPV in her lifetime.)

I don't like the anti-vaccination movement, honestly.

a mom said...

caring mom all day: I would be fine with my nanny not getting a flu shot (assuming I don't have an infant under 6 mos)
...but this nanny said she is against all vaccinations and that her dd has not been vaccinated. This is what I would have a problem with. Even if my kids are vaccinated, these days with all the anti-vax crazies out there, there is still a chance that my vaccinated kid could contract a VPD - although I'm sure it would be a milder case. That's the risk of living, I supposed...but I'm not OK with putting them at risk with somebody that I am paying to be their direct care-giver.

Bethany said...

Has she even mentioned thiss t you or are you assumming she wants you to?

Either way I would handle it the way Lyn suggested for both you and your daughter.

She can not force you to vaccinate, but she can choose to employ a nanny that will comply with her request. If it comes down to that you'll have to decide how much you need this job.

I would also suggest that in the future you discuss vaccinations during the interview process.

Caring Mom All Day said...

If its not highly treatable, why doesn't the medical community know this? I just pulled up a seemingly endless amount of medical web sites that say "HPV is highly treatable." HPV doesn't cause sudden death, but the vaccination can. Also, HPV "usually" clears up on its own, without treatment. Personally speaking, I am not "anti-vaccination." I am anti-assuming every vaccination is neccesary & worth the risk. I think its wise to be an informed patient, to take into consideration MORE than just the CDCs reccomendation, but also the facts. One reason why we may now have so many more food allergies is because were "too clean." Were consantly washing our hands & being vaccinated for everything. Our bodies are literally forgetting how to build immunity!! Doesn't that scare you? It should! Vaccinations can and do cause horrible life long side effects, in some of our population, as proven by the government routinely paying out large sums of money to vaccination victims.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this one! :o)

Caring Mom All Day said...

If the caregiver has a VPD, your kids who have had the vaccination wouldn't get it. If they could, it wouldn't matter whether or not the nanny had the vaccination. Because in that case, the vaccination isn't preventing that disease. I think its judgmental to call people who don't get all vaccinations as "crazy." But maybe I'm just as bad because I think not taking the time to research the benifits & risks and allowing a doctor to inject g-d knows what into your growing child is...crazy..Although I wouldn't call the actual person "crazy."

Id like to hear Miss Mannahs view on vaccination. If she sees this? :o)

MaryPoppin'Pills said...


I don't usually comment but I had to get into the mix here. I remember a few years ago when getting my son vaccinated the controversy surrounding the link between Autism and the MMR vaccine. I asked my son's Pediatrician about it and he had a pamphlet at the ready. He also gave me some papers about vaccination lawsuits/settlements, etc. I was really shocked and all it served to do was for me to pound the good Dr with questions. Thankfully, I got "I wish all parents were as concerned as you..."

After much study I decided to get the vaccinations. However, I agree with CM about one thing in particular... "We're constantly washing our hands & being vaccinated for everything. Our bodies are literally forgetting how to build immunity". The sanitary hand wipes and germ-free lotions I think in the long run will only cause problems. There is nothing wrong with ordinary soap and warm water.

Our kids used to climb trees and scratch in the dirt but now everybody is afraid of any and every little germ. Antibiotics were being given at such an alarming rate, to the point of the WHO warning Drs of it's misuse and abuse.

I do think most vaccines are necessary but we need to be more mindful of what we are putting into our bodies. Read, read and read some more... be informed.

nycmom said...

Lyn,

You should get the flu mist. I have been giving this to my kids as long as it has been available for their age. My husband also hates shots so always gets the mist. I prefer the mist too simply because it is live attenuated virus so some potential for herd immunity, though I am fine with getting shots.

Anita said...

Nycmom could you explain what 'live attenuated virus so some potential for herd immunity' means? Thanks!

Lyn said...

NycMom, Shhhhh, the shot is 60% of my excuse for not getting one, don't tell! ;)

While I don't have a problem with other people getting the flu vaccine it's just not something I personally am okay with getting. If I get the flu, I don't really care. I think it's "good" to let my body get and be sick sometimes.

But you and my Husbands and the nature of your careers both think people like myself are a smidge crazy and I understand why I'm okay with that, haha! :)

Caring Mom All Day said...
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MissMannah said...

CMAD: I did see this and I specifically did not post because I knew it would ruffle a few feathers. I am actively pro-vaccine and I am glad I work for a boss-family who also is. I think OP is taking a huge gamble with her decisions she's made for her family. That's all I'm going to say on this matter.

nycmom said...

Anita,

I'll do my best, but am not an epidemiologist so apologies if this is not well-explained. I also just started a new job and am too tired to do the proper research!

Live attenuated virus is one that has been weakened such that it is alive, but not strong enough to cause significant damage. You can get the flu, though rare and generally mild, from the mist. The flu shot is a dead virus so it cannot cause one of the included flu strains (though you can still get an immune response which some people mistake for the flu).

The live virus has been shown to cause cross immunity or transfer immunity to those individuals who have not been immunized. Thus, we are creating a larger scale herd of immunized people who are effectively protecting those who are not immunized The live flu mist offers this extra protection which is why I prefer it.

Rhiannon said...

Mannah, I am with you!

Caring Mom All Day said...
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Caring Mom All Day said...
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Dr. Juris said...

I'm with you too, Mannah.

MissMannah said...

"You sound defensive? Im not sure why."

Because I can get very adamant about my stand on vaccinations and sometimes I find myself being ugly about it.

I do not see taking vaccinations as a gamble, I see it as a smart decisions. The worst side effect I've ever experienced was a low-grade fever and sore arm. Some people would say I'm lucky, but I'm not. I'm the norm.

Why did you have shots with your childbirth? I am very fascinated with the thought of having a natural childbirth (probably because everyone I know gets medication) so I would love for you to share your experience with me. If you don't want to discuss it on here, you can email me.

Nycmom, thank you for explaining vaccinations in a clear, factual way. The more people are educated about this matter, the fewer people we'll have dying from infectious disease.

Anonymous said...

Just to clarify based on MPP well explained comment- the autism research was pulled after 10 years. The physician lost his license. He faked his data. So I hope no one thinks this is about autism! There is no published research data on this anymore. Nursing student.

Mom in NYC said...

I have a question for the OP, which I think is the biggest reason for the vaccination. How old is your charge? I think if the charge is under 6 months and can't be vaccinated his or herself, then you NEED to tell the MB if you aren't going to get it. She may decide it's a deal breaker. The AAP recommends the following: The AAP recommends everyone 6 months or older receive influenza vaccine. Special efforts should be made to immunize all family members, household contacts, and out-of-home care providers of children who are younger than 5 years. Bottom line is, if your charge is an infant, you could be putting them at risk. In that case, I wouldn't blame your bosses for needing a caregiver who's gotten the vaccine.

MaryPoppin'Pills said...


Dr. Juris,
I received your comment with the link on Andrew Wakefield and actually would prefer to Publish it to the Blog. Thank you for giving me the option!

Caring Mom All Day said...
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Dr. Juris said...

No problem, MPP! I considered it extremely interesting.

Caring Mom All Day said...
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Caring Mom All Day said...
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MissMannah said...

Thanks for the story, I am really fascinated by labor and delivery right now. I think we're going to look into the Bradley method, which emphasizes alternative pain management.

Plus I get to start my next dose of fertility meds tomorrow! Fingers crossed this will be my lucky month!

Lyn said...

Youre going to be such a good momma mannah! :) I cant wait to see the news!

In memory of Tyler said...

Sorry to the OP for being off-subject but I wanted to tell Cmad that I too decided on home birth during a m/c. I wanted to feel everything during labor and delivery and as I read your story it sounded so much like mine. I knew my sweet little boy wouldn't make it (we lost his heartbeat at a regular appt so they rushed me next door to the hospital to be induced but I asked to go home) I felt I owed it to my son. I needed him to know I was there for him, not all drugged up and unfeeling. Before leaving the hospital a grief counselor came in and spoke with me. She thought I was making a good decision for me and that doing it my way would mean no regrets so it would help in my healing process. It only took about 7hrs of labor, 2 of them intense and painful, but I wouldn't take it back for the world. I was 2mos shy of full-term. My husband, me, my best friend and my mom were there. After I gave birth my husband and I held my baby for as long as we could and although it was such a short time I was able to bond with my baby. And the counselor was right, I had no regrets.

Home Birth Mama said...

My home birth was 6 hours from start to finish and absolutely beautiful. To this day, hands down, my most proud accomplishment. The sense of strength and gratitude for my body was life changing. Home birth has fewer complications than hospital births. This is a fact.

I respect all women to choose what they wish for their experience. Home birth is fabulous and needs to remain part of women's conversations...

For me, it was not about martyring in any way. I trusted my body and my midwives, and I will always cherish the experience. How many women who have hospital births can say that? Sadly, not enough...

Caring Mom All Day said...
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Caring Mom All Day said...
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Caring Mom All Day said...
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Home Birth Mama said...

Cmad-you raise a good point. There are very strict guidelines which midwives steadfastly follow in order to allow a home birth. Gestational diabetes is an automatic- no can do. So is breech. Proteins are tested at each and every visit. Ultrasounds. And age of mom is very much a factor to how midwives will approach.

So it's true, that hospitals are the place for women who are not perfectly healthy to give birth. MOST are perfectly healthy and capable. Midwives wholly believe this. Doctors tend to believe birth is a health crisis, no matter what the situation. With birthing centers here in California as an option, you can have a midwife AND give birth in a medical facility that is prepared for any unforeseen emergency. It's so great to have so many options for what works for us individually.