Saturday

Parents Indepependently Contract Stupidity

OPINION
I have been the nanny for a wonderful family for almost one year. When I started work last year, we agreed upon and signed a contract. The parents asked me if I would mind being an independent contractor. Being naive, I accepted this. I had no idea then what I was getting myself into. The last year has been amazing. My charge is great, and his parents treat me well. I had no complaints about my job. Until Tax season rolled around.

I went to a tax professional. We went through the whole tax process, she told me how much I owed. I expected to owe money, but not as much as I did. But I paid the IRS, and life went on. A few weeks ago, I learned some information. I was told that a nanny is NOT an independent contractor, and that if I was smart, I would bring this to my employers' attention toward the end of our one year contract. I know that I agreed to be an IC for one year, but at this point, I just don't think it's fair. I spoke with my MB who told me that I have to be an IC because I'm not a "real" nanny, She stated this because I do not drive my charge around. She said that I only clean up after him and not them (MB&DB), so therefore, that only puts me at babysitter status. I disagree.

An IC works for many clients, sets their own hours and pay, and does the job how they want to. I work full time at the hours they set. The pay me what they can afford (in fact, they are cutting some hours so they can pay me less), and I have to do the job the way MB and DB ask me to. I plan on bringing this information up this week, as I want to get this conversation over with before the contract is up. Everything I said at the conversation was shot down by MB. Does any one have any advice as how to handle this? P.S. I am not trying to get out of paying taxes. I believe it is my duty to pay them, and I only plan to ever have jobs that are legal. I only want to know whether I am being completely unreasonable by believing I should be considered a household employee instead of an independent contractor.

76 comments:

SLNanny said...

So here's the deal. They listed you as an IC to avoid paying their share of taxes. It has nothing to do with you being a "real" nanny. Wow at that comment by the way. What they are doing is illegal. I would try again to renegotiate but it sounds like they have made up their minds. Good luck.

workingMom said...

Your definition of IC is correct; for tax purposes, you are NOT an IC.

If they do not agree to change your status and pay you accordingly at your contract renewal, you should be prepared to quit.

Sam said...

Theyre cheap, Id quit on them

N is for Nanny said...

You are correct that a nanny is not an IC, but rather is a household employee.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of nannies out there who either do not understand the difference or do not care...and they can quite easily replace you with one of them. You could suggest that they talk to their accountant or tax preparer, but they might feel that IC is legal "enough" (they are wrong) or a legal household employee is too expensive. If you want to keep the position, I think that they only way you are likely to work it is if you suggest that they either:

1.) keep you at the same rate for year two, taking on the extra "expense" of employing you legally in lieu of giving you a raise - when it comes down to it, this will give you a 7.5% raise, as they will be paying their portion of taxes. Yes, they should have been paying them all along, but had you not agreed to be an IC, they may have offered you a lower rate, to keep their bottom line the same. (And while this part is not your problem, they might point out to you that they will have additional expenses associated with being an employer, such as maintaining an appropriate insurance policy, should you get hurt at their home.)

2.)Offer to take a pay cut, to keep their bottom line the same. Similar to #1, but #1 assumes you receive an annual raise.

Ideally they will realize that you are right and that they are wrong and not make their error your financial burden. However, I would be prepared to take what you've been paying in taxes as a paycut. Good luck!

Village said...

If you report to the same place everyday where your duties are commanded and controlled by another and you don't own the place, and the services are performed continuously for the same payer, you can't be an IC. (Google it)

What they are doing is illegal as (*)(*). You could turn them into the IRS and plead ignorance on your part, but don't do that under any circumstance without professional advice and support. You were part of the conspiracy as well, and ignorance of the lay is no excuse. At best, they enticed you to commit a federal crime.

If they want to continue to steal from their employees and lie to the government, let them, but don't be a part of it. The IRS doesn't like cheaters. You can be fined and/or imprisoned for tax evasion.

Dr. Juris said...

Actually, in order to commit conspiracy, you have to have the intent to commit the crime.

Just My Two Cents Just Now said...

Wow...

Just My Two Cents Just Now said...

When working as a Nanny, you are most definitely a Household Employee vs. an Independent Contractor. I am sure your family knows this, but they are trying to convince you otherwise so they can pay less taxes. This is very shady to me.

Also, the comment that you are not a "real" Nanny just doesn't sit very well w/me.

I know you say that this family is wonderful, however I beg to differ. It seems they want you to pay higher taxes so they don't have to plus they are implying that you are "less" than a real Nanny.

I would quit. These are deal-breakers to me.

Good for you OP. It sounds like you did your research and are a lot smarter than your boss is giving you credit for.

MissMannah said...

Quit, and when your boss asks why, tell them you want to work for real employers.

Penny said...

OP been there done that! My family screwed me on taxes once and I ended up owing $4,000 because they simply didn't have me fill out a W-2 when they hired me. It was a live and learn for me so please no tounge lashing I clearly cross my T's and dot my I's now. It was about the principle, when you hire someone for over 40 hours 5 days a week it is the employers responsibility to have their employee fill out a W-2 and proper paper work. Nowhere did they say in my interview or in my first year of working with them did they mention taxes once. I'm sure worrying about getting introuble was a small fraction of concern for them but I'm not stupid I know they wanted the extra $5,000 tax break. Needless to say, had they done the right thing in the first place when they hired me it would have saved us all a lot of friction, headache, and would have saved me a lot of financial trouble. What was the most shocking thing about it they didn't understand why I was mad! I mean 4 days before tax day I find out I owe $4,000 just weeks after my wedding I was thrown under the bus without any hesitation. If only they knew what sort of strain that put on my husband and I!

Bethany said...

Haha, Mannah!

You are completely correct about the statust of nannies as household employees.

I'd love to see your employers expalin to the IRS that you are not a "rea" nanny.

If these were reasonable people you could have a discussion with them about the tax issues.
They don't seem reasonalbe and I also think they know exactly what they are doing expecially since they suggested IC to you.

I would quit. Don't give up on working on the books either it's hard work, but their are employers that will pay the legal way.

Tales from the (Nanny)Hood said...

Get documentation listing the penalties for employers who pay their household employees illegally. Get further information on how easy it is for employers to pay legally. Find out the tax benefits to them for paying you legally.

Figure out what you have to make gross to cover ALL taxes as an IC. That's their share of SS/Med and YOUR share of SS/Med. Give them that figure, and explain that you will continue to work for them, although you will NOT lie on your income tax forms (i.e., you will not list yourself as an IC, but as an employee) if you are paid the new gross weekly amount, as long as they are willing to take the risk of paying you illegally.

IOW, YOU do the right thing without eating the costs THEY are obligated to pay.

Or, leave after you find a job with legal pay and legal status.

♥ Amy Darling ♥ said...

Funny Miss Mannah. LOL.

What your family is doing OP is illegal and is just like working under the table.

Either they make you their household employee or you leave.

ericsmom said...

So sad. I guess these employers have no thought about your future. I mean they have to pay taxes on you and you likewise. If you work any job under the table how do you get social security benefits? I know the system sucks as it is. But I would hate to work not paying taxes and when I am 62 have no social security to lean on. Remember if you don't have enough work credits you don't get anything either at retirement age or if you have a disability. So sad!!

OP said...

Thank you all so much for your advice. I plan on talking to them on Tuesday and stating that if I can't be legal, I'm not staying past my contract date. The tax stuff is only the tip of the iceberg. They've taken advantage of me in other ways a well.

I have a few websites bookmarked as ammo to show them if they try to argue with me, including the official IRS website.

different alias said...

Hi OP

Thanks for the update.

What I did I know this sounds terrible. I had to go to the IRS building in my state and pay my taxes when I was a live-in nanny. My young days. The family was a nightmare to work for. So the IRS asked who I worked for. I gave them their name and address. I hope they got screwed as well. Bad thing they were both lawyers.

OP said...

By the way:

Mannah, that sounds like a great suggestion! I love it!

Penny, I'm so sorry that happened to you! That is a large chunk of money. I only had to pay $1,620.

I will tell you how it goes on Tuesday.

I just hate the idea of having to go through the job hunting process again. Its such a stressful headache.

Penny said...

OP yes it did suck a lot and it was super stressful! My advice is to get an accountant stick and ask him/her questions on what your rights are exactly and what sort of leverage you have it'll be worth your time and money to consult with a professional CPA. Get the financial matter cleaned up. Second I know it sucks and is difficult but I would quit on the spot, listen if they are going to be that rude, low, and shady about something so basic and important I would have a hard time trusting my employer going forward. Get out now before you get screwed even more, and tell them that too! Tell them you can't work for cheap shady rude people, your quitting what don you have to lose!

Penny said...

Also OP, I want to clarify to you that like I said I was stupid to not cover my ass when I accepted the job. Needless to say the wool has been lifted from my eyes. When I reviewed my contract with my employers I stated that they are responsible for FICA/MEDICARE and I (per their request,) am responsible for State/Federal, I receive my W-2 no later than January 31st, that they pay me every week via direct deposit (then this way there is a proper "paper" trail,) and that in anyway they default I they will pay any financial consequences I may encounter. Being paid on the books is beneficial for you in many ways 1.) You will be able to establish income for purchases like homes, cars, loans, etc, you HOPEFULLY will receive SS if it still exists by then, and also if you get hurt on the job or fired for non menacing reasons you can obtain disability or unemployment. It's a shame they threw you under the bus it sounds like they may be losing a great nanny!

Amber said...

OP, I wouldn't stay until my contract date if they are doing this to you.

I know looking for a Nanny job is tough, but in the long run you will be better off w/out working for such shady people.

Good luck.

la said...

Amber, can't they sue me if I don't stay? or does the illegality of the situation void the contact?

Tales from the (Nanny)Hood said...

OP, if they try to sue you then their illegal acts would be open to the courts. So I would guess that any threat of a suit would be a bluff that you could easily call by saying that you will let the court know that you left early because if the compensation issue.

And in general, especially in "right to work" states, you are employed "at will", which means you can be let go at any time for any reason. I honestly don't think nanny work agreements are all that legally binding.

In your shoes, I would start looking ASAP, and once you have found other work (and gotten the new employers to sign a work agreement!), give the current employers notice. You want to keep things professional, especially if you need references.

nycmom said...

Yes, and the IRS has ruled on it in legal cases before too - 4nannytaxes has the references I believe.

Don't just point out the potential risks of back taxes. Those are actually not huge. But as a ft employee, and often pt in many states, they were also obligated to be paying Workers Comp/Disability. THAT is where the IRS hits employers with HUGE penalties.

I highly doubt you will convince this employee. Not sure if you mentioned location, but in NYC something like 85%+ of employers pay off the books. However, if they get nasty you DO have leverage to get some of your money back. You can refile your 2011 taxes as an employee, own up to making a mistake (your penalties will be nil or minimal since you already paid IC taxes), and name them as your employers.

Then notify the IRS of the oversight and they will have a lot of headaches to deal with for a while and a lot of money to pay. I don't think it is worth being vindictive just for the sake of it, but if they fire you immediately or threaten a bad reference, consider it. You absolutely have the upper hand here.

get a moniker said...

repost for anon

Anonymous said...
Here's what I did as an IC. I told my bosses that it's fine to keep me as an IC but my take home pay still needs to be 'x' $amount. After 20% taxes, I was making 'y' $amount and the job wasn't working out then. So they increased my salary 20%!!! So now my check is 'z' $amount, but I put 20% into a separate acct so that I'm still making 'x' $amount.

I highly doubt this will work out for anyone else, as I don't think anyone else's bosses are this ..'smart." :)

op said...

Oops. I posted a comment under "la" instead of OP. But I guess you all got the point. I will initiate the conversation Tuesday and see how it goes. If it doesn't go well, I will be prepared too give my notice.

♥ Amy Darling ♥ said...

OP: I do not believe your contract is legal since they are doing something illegal on their side which is employing you as an "Independent Contractor." If one party is doing something illegal, the contract is null and void. If you choose to leave at will, you can.

I mean, it is not illegal to fire someone w/no notice. Employers are not bound by some law stating they need to give their employees a 2-week notice to leave, so why should Nannies?

If you want to leave la, then leave.

I would.

UmassSlytherin said...

OP,
These people are jerks. you do not want to work for them.

You sound like a great caregiver. You can find better employers.

MaryPoppin'Pills said...

Looks like I've got my own secret re-poster running the board for me, lol.

Thank you!

nycmom said...

MPP,

Sorry! I always thought you deleted anon posts unless another poster reposted it before you saw it. First time I've ever done it as I happened to be on at the right time.

Now that I understand, I will leave it to you. Thanks.

nynanny said...

Tales, WA/contracts are legally binding, even trumping laws, I just read a big article about it. I will see if I can dig it up. Honestly, I found it surprising but it's true.

MaryPoppin'Pills said...

NYCmom,

Anonymous posts ALWAYS get deleted (unless it is a relevant comment on a Sighting).

If another Reader decides to re-post then it was very thoughtful of them to do. I try to re-post when I can but usually I am too busy... unfortunately, a lot of good comments go in the trash bin.

Please, if you want to help, be my guest!

And thank you! ;-)

MissMannah said...

Nycmom, I do it too if I happen to catch an anonymous post. I don't know why people can't follow basic directions.

Glad yall got a giggle out of my smart-ass suggestion! OP, I really have my doubts that this conversation you will have with your boss is going to go well, but good luck anyway!

bostonnanny said...

I say you just stay until next January 2013 and file your taxes as an employee. they will get hit hard and you will have time to find a new job.

Phoenix said...

you are not 1099 income. Just because your employer thinks you are doesn't mean they are right.

You are correct in your evalution of an IC.

If you were to lets say take them to court for what has happened regarding your tax situation they would be in a lot of trouble.

Nannies are domestic employees. You should tell your employers that you want to sit down together with them and consult a CPA. That way they can hear it from a professional.

ELam said...

You're right, they're wrong (and they know it), end of discussion. If they refuse to change it, quit!

ericsmom said...

Phoenix I know you are an accountant. Did you ever in your past see situations like this? Where parents didn't want to pay their fair share. Or thought they could get away with this?

Phoenix said...

ericsmom,

what I found is that most employers simply do not know. Half the time if they hire a cleaning lady she would more often then not come from a cleaning company. That company would be responsible to pay the housekeepr W2 income and withhold the proper tax.

Not only is it un-wise to pay your nanny 1099 it will create an opening for the nanny to take expenses on their tax returns, thus lowering her adjusted gross income which will affect how much tax this person owes. the gov't doesn't like this.

A nanny is an employee. A PP stated the definition best. A contract worker sets their own schedule, is their own boss, and it continues. A W2 employee is an emplyee, period. She doesn't get to decide what she wants to do and she has a schedule she must adhere to, and she has a boss.

There are some employers who have done their homework others have and they don't care. But the most trouble people run into that I've seen is that the employers don't know.

If you are hired for a job and you arrive on your first day bring with you a blank W4 form. You can usually buy these at staples or office max. Make sure you indicate the amount of tax you want taken out. Remember more now, means more refund later. Afer handing them your W4 that will be filed make sure to indicate that this is for "my W2 information so you know the exemptions I take) This way you are casually bringing it up BEFORE you begin to work

NoTaxNanny said...

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! I gotta love these posts. These government loving tax crazies always throw one of these out there every few months. Let the ISYN tax wars begin!!

Phoenix said...

What tax wars are you reffering to? The statements made to the OP about how she should legally be paid and what steps to take and what to look for.

if a nanny is paid 1099 over W2 she will pay out the ass in taxes when she files.

And no one said they loved the gov't nor did anyone say we like taxes.

Crazy much?

op said...

Phoenix, I think she is crazy. I haven't seen any "wars". In fact, we are pretty much in agreement.

Mn Nanny said...

I don't think NoTax is crazy. It seems like we often get these posts where someone tries to convince us that we are doing something terrible by not paying taxes. First it was "Pay taxes because it's the LAW!!!" Now it's "Pay taxes or you will get SCREWED!!!" I'm tired of hearing it, I assume NoTax is too.

I have never paid taxes as a nanny. I have never met a nanny who pays taxes. Yet whoever posts these is trying to convince me that most nannies are on the books? I don't think so.

Get over it guys. Some of us are never going to pay taxes. Accept it and move on.

Mn Nanny said...

And oh yeah....so funny how people always say stuff like, "I pay taxes because I believe it is my duty to pay them." Does anyone actually talk like that in the real world? No one pays their taxes because they feel it is their duty, they pay them because they can't get away with not paying them.

op said...

Im not saying shes crazy because she doesn't pay taxes. I was saying she's crazy because she assumed we were all fighting and at war.

But it doesn't matter. I'm going to keep paying taxes so I can have things like parks, libraries, nice roads, and police officers

MissMannah said...

Mn Nanny, just because you and other nannies you know are cheaters and losers, doesn't mean we all are. As a matter of fact, I do believe it is my duty as an American citizen to pay my taxes and I am glad to do it. I agree wholeheartedly with the OP, I rather like having police officers, parks, libraries, et al paid for.

NoTaxNanny said...

Ok, fine, so there was no fighting this time...I didn't read the comments, usually people argue about taxes more.

I just laughed because this post is so much like so many others on ISYN, and seems like a total crock to me. If you went to a tax professional, why are you looking at this site for advice? Seems like just another made up story to make us worry about taxes.

Every few months we get someone being sanctimonious about taxes, and I have often wondered if it is the same person each time. No one has ever been so pro taxes as the person or people on ISYN, most people would never pay taxes if they didn't absolutely have to.

Mn is right, no one really pays taxes because "it's the right thing to do." When people talk that way, I just can't take them seriously. I just have to laugh because there are people out there who waste their time trying to pressure nannies to pay tax! I'm glad I have better things to do.

NoTaxNanny said...

Actually, I wonder if MissMannah is the tax lover who posts all these...

la said...

I went to a tax professional who told me what I owed and didn't care if it was legal, as long as I paid her her fee.

And no. MissMannah didnt post this. I did. I've been reading this site for a while, never posting. I've just recently come out of my shell.

And why on earth are you talking about her anyway?

Rebecca Lubin said...

Mn Nanny,
There has been a total three submissions about taxes in the last six months, and I wrote one of them with a byline and a photo. It is an issue that comes up a lot in the nanny industry and creates a good debate among the posters. Household employees and Taxes will always be a hot button issue, and i for one enjoy reading everyone's perspective.

Different Tax said...

Actually, income tax is not what pays for roads and libraries and cops. You guys are thinking of property tax. Income tax is supposed to pay for social security and health care, but what your income tax dollars are paying for now are the huge salaries of polititians and to keep sending our military into wars that have no purpose.

Phoenix said...

the reality is no one likes taxes but you have to pay them. people get arrested all the time for tax evasion and they are put behind bars longer than ever people who committed 2nd degree homicide.

you can't just decide not to pay taxes. what an idiot

Phoenix said...

oh yeah dumbass the people who pay taxes get social security because we've been paying into it for decards, you miss I am too good to pay taxes will not be eligable for those benefits (no matter how small they are) and you won't get unemployement. There are many reasons people pay taxes. You fucking idiot. You yourself will never be able to get these benefits. The only way you would get social security is if your spouse has worked and thus parts belongs to you as well.

MissMannah said...

State income taxes pay for state roads. You're right, property taxes pay for cops and libraries. However, both income and property taxes pay for public education, which is one I do wish to support.

Tales from the (Nanny)Hood said...

MN nanny and no tax nanny, just because you have gotten away with being tax cheats doesn't mean you will always be so lucky. Hope your audits don't destroy your lives!

(P.S. Your employers? they will throw you under the bus in a millisecond when THEY get audited. "She insisted on being paid cash, and we couldn't ever convince her to be legal!")

No one here claims that many/most/almost all household employees pay taxes. The vast majority of employers are tax cheats, and the vast majority of employees play along, either because they are too scared to speak up or because they are happy taking home all their money and joining their employers in the cheating.

No one here, as far as I can remember, has said they LIKE paying taxes. Those of us who follow the law do so for various reasons. Here are some of those reasons:

--Appreciation of the idea that one must play by the rules

--Fear of being caught and bankrupted after being audited

--Being raised to do the right thing, even when it sucks and dings your wallet

--Knowledge that government at all levels does, in fact need money to function, and the desire to not turn into Europe where in addition to income taxes they pay HUGE sales taxes on every single thing they buy. (That sort of consumption tax will be the fault of tax cheats like you both when it does come to the US.)

NoTaxNanny said...

And now, you guys have proven my point. A few of you get SO crazed over us not paying taxes...I think it is funny that something like taxes becomes such a big issue. It's funnier that you think you can change our minds. I'm sure a bunch of nannies are going to rush to the IRS and say, "Here, I want to pay taxes now because some people online called me names!!!"

Nanny Jenn said...

Everyone is talking about how Nannies can get audited and face still penalties for working off the books. Okaay....when was the last time you turned on the news and saw a Nanny being handcuffed and taken to jail because she was working under the table??! Huh??

It's the same thing as downloading free movies/music online. People know it is illegal, yet they do it anyway. Same thing when paying a Nanny under the table.

I work on the books because I have to in order to establish credit for my apt and car payment, but I used to work under the table when I first started out.

I see no reason why people should judge others for the decisions they make.

Susannah said...

1. People can and are audited all the time. It's actually becoming more common as our economy is tanking royally. It doesn't involve handcuffs. You most likely won't see it on the news. Unless it involves a celebrity or huge corporation.

2. It's interesting that youu choose illegal downloads as an analogy as there are many cases of people being prosecuted for that.

3. Pet peeve of mine telling someone that their behavior has consequences and not patting them on the back for doing something illegal is not judging them.

Tales from the (Nanny)Hood said...

NoTaxNanny, I know you'll continue to cheat and lie. You enjoy the results. I have no illusions that anything said to you or about you here or elsewhere online will change your behavior.

And FYI, I am not at all upset about your personal decisions. Live your life, reap the consequences.

Speaking up about why being a lying scum-sucking tax cheat is wrong is something I will continue to do, because it's possible that someone less self-satisfied with their own criminal activity than yourself will see what people like me write and make the decision to do the right thing.

So relax. It isn't all about you, although since you live a selfish and self-centered life as a tax cheat I can see why you might have that delusion.

TTFN!

Village said...

Did the OP talk to her employers, and if so, what happened?

Now back to the regularly scheduled argument about taxes.

la said...

I haven't talked to them yet. we're discussing it today (when MB gets home). I'm SO nervous, but I know I have to do it.

I'll let you know later.

Why the fighting? said...

I don't care at all which nannies pay taxes and which don't. I can't understand why you all get so mad about it. Why does it offend you? You call nannies awful names like "lying scum sucking cheats," but I would be much more upset to hear about nannies who steal from their employers, or lie to them, or neglect the kids, etc. They all deserve to be called lying scum suckers much more than an under the table nanny. Why aren't you going after all the truly bad nannies instead?

Paying taxes is the law, but just because something is the law doesn't make it right. The law used to let people own other people as slaves. The law used to allow a man to hit his wife. The law still says gay people can't get married. These are all laws that are completely sick and twisted and wrong, so this ongoing litany of being told to pay up because it's the law is just getting ridiculous.

Why don't we all focus on things that really will make the nanny world better for all of us?

Lissa said...

Good point, why the fighting?

Just because something is legal, does not make it right/ethical.

Yes, in some states it is illegal for gays to get married which is wrong. Yet the law stands.

It is illegal for a Nanny not to pay taxes, but many do it. People should stop attacking those that work under the table....because each and every one of you out there has one time or another broken a law or two. NO?? How about the person who sneaks candy in the movies???!

Phoenix said...

for me is has nothing to do with doing the moral thing. It has everything to do with not getting in trouble and getting my sweet tax refund at the end of the day. People who don't pay their taxes will eventually get hosed. i don't think you understand how it works. If you employer gives you 1099 income they are required to submit information to the IRS with your SSN on it. So the IRS already has how much they paid you. It might take them a couple years to figure it out but they will eventually notice that Joe Shmo with SSN has been reported at receiving income but yet hasn't paid taxes.

The IRS is not a simple credit collector. One of my aunts friends is an IRS repo-specialist. He will get an assignment regarding a guy who hasn't paid their taxes and they owe this and this. He will go to their house and if they don't have the money. He will repossess the house, cars, once he ever hooked up somones speed boat to his truck and drove away.

I don't like paying taxes. I think its a crock of shit. but everyone has to do it. No one is special. don't know why some people on here think they are above paying taxes. YOu aren't. You look like idiots who don't know how the system works. I used to work for a forensic CPA and that was what we did. figure out which people were trying to skirt by.

Your not special, your so dumb I can't stand it

Phoenix said...

i bet like hell you're going to wish you paid your taxes when you retire and have no benefits.

Phoenix said...

I break the law all the time. Every flippin day i do it. but if you want to live on the edge and be a 1%'r you should try something else besides not paying your taxes.

Do you know why most mob bosses were locked up? Not because they linked them to organized crime it was because of tax evasion. The dude that invented girls gone wild, prison for tax evasion. If you are going to break the law your reward has to outweigh the risk and in this case it doesn't. If you don't pay and they find you, you are going to lose your entire life. They take away everyting. I've seen first hand what happens to people who go trough audits. its not a good thing

MissMannah said...

Why do we get all up in arms about nannies not paying taxes? Because it is exactly what Tales said about Europe having high tax rates--we don't want that to have to happen here. And it will, if enough people stop paying their taxes. The government has to make up the money somewhere. Look at Greece and the shithole they've dug themselves into--nobody pays their taxes there! I'm sure plenty of their citizens were quite pleased with themselves with their fat paychecks with nothing taken out for years but now they are causing their country to go bankrupt.

Susannah--that is a pet peeve of mine too. Telling someone what they are doing (or not doing) is illegal and wrong is not the same as judging. A few posts up when I called someone a loser--yes that was judgmental. I'm ok with that.

NoTaxNanny said...

Phoenix, you admit you broke the law???? Does that mean you are also a lying scum sucker? Or are you the only one who gets to decide that? Why is it ok for you to break the law, but you go completely ballistic at people online whom you don't even know?

You claim that you get up in arms about taxes because you don't want under the table nannies to get screwed. If that is really what you are trying to accomplish, why all the hostility? If you are really trying to help nannies not get screwed, perhaps a better attitude without all the infantile insults and name calling would work better.

Phoenix said...

of course I break the law. i text while i drive, I don't wear my seat-belt, I walk across the street with against traffic.

Everyone does it and if you say you don't then I can't help.

and I never said i was trying to help nannies not get screwed. i was advising on taxes, period.

i don't know why you make things up in your head. I also don't think you understand that there are different types of crime.

If you want to be paid under the table that is your choice. If I had the choice I wouldn't want to pay taxes either. But i don't have that option. I'm not sure why you think I care about whether people pay their taxes or not. I honestly don't care but people seem to say things about taxes and what they are for in the wrong way.

If you didn't have taxes you wouldn't have police or firemen. Who's gnna help you? Taxes suck they are apart of life and everyone has to adhere to them in every country. You are not special

NoTaxNanny said...

Yes, there are indeed different types of crime. For example, not paying taxes means that the government doesn't get my piddly little amount. The country will survive.

Texting while driving can get people Killed. You are risking the lives of everyone around you. Texting and driving has been proven to be more dangerous than drunk driving.

So yeah...I guess we are two very different types of criminals. When I break the law, no one is in danger.

OP UPDATE said...

UPDATE:

I talked to MB yesterday. It was basically the same conversation as the last time. She said she would talk to her husband and they would consider it. But she doesn't really see the big deal because all of her friends 1099 their nannies or pay them under the table. She said it would be expensive for both us us, because we'd need to hire lawyers and accountants.

She said she's leery of going ahead with this, because she doesn't really know how to go about it.

I also forgot to mention this previously because I didn't think it was important, but I do childcare for a church every Sunday for like 15 minutes while the Pastor gives his sermon. They pay me $10 per week. My MB said if we go ahead and do this, my church could get in a lot of trouble because I haven't been paying taxes on that $10/week. I'm not even worried abut it though, because I think I need to make like $700 before I have to report it, right?

Village said...

So now MB has established herself as a cheat and a liar, and possibly a extortionist. $10 from church 52 weeks a year is $520. That is not much of a tax liability, if it's a liability at all. She is threatening the nanny WITH HER CHURCH. Can she go any lower?

IMHO you should quit and go straight to the IRS. Let them figure it out for her, and tell her how much she owes in back taxes, and fines.

This sounds like a second grader. 'All my friends are doing it' doesn't make it right.

MissMannah said...

I thought you have to make like $3000 before you had to start paying taxes on it. Phoenix, help me out here?

I 100% agree with Village. This MB seems like a total bitch and she is not going to change her mind.

nynanny said...

Wow OP, I don't even know how to respond. Thankfully Village put it into words for us. And Missmannah was able to add to it.

She's a bitch, a cheat and a liar. You need to leave, asap.

a said...

Village: BEST blog advice ever!

Sarah said...

I think you should leave. MB is not going to pay you on the books. It's not hard, all they need is a payroll service, you can file your own taxes using TurboTax for free. The church money does not count, it's not significant. I think you should report your employers and file a wage claim with your state.

Sarah said...

I also suggest, since she "doesn't know how to go ahead with this" that you print out some information on nanny payroll taxes and services to hand to your employers when you revisit the issue. (But I think you're better off leaving.)

op said...

I found a form online. You fill it out with your (the employees) info and their (the employers) info. You answer some questions, and send it too the IRS. Tbey will then determine wether or not its fair to claim me as an IC. Ifthey find my employer has been doing it illegally, they will come at her for a bunch of back taxes.

My family is out of town next week, when they return, I'll ask her if we can finally do things the legal way. I want to give her a chance instead of just walking out on her. But if she doesn't comply, I'm telling her I'm filing this form.

I just dont want to be too hasty with telling the IRS, because I dont want her to try to drag me down with her.

Sorry for any typos. Im writing this from my phone.