In The News...

Thursday, July 23, 2009
3 Children Found Starved in Hotel Bathroom - Dallas
Three children were kept in a hotel bathroom for about a year and were "horribly emaciated" when police found them earlier this month, authorities said. One claimed to have been repeatedly sexually assaulted. The children's mother, 30-year-old Abneris Santiago, is charged with injury to a child. Her 37-year-old live-in boyfriend, Alfred Santiago, is charged with aggravated sexual assault and continuous sexual abuse. (continued)
Special thanks to Easttxmomof3 for Submitting this Article.

Babysitter Sex Scandal - Video
A 28-year-old woman faces charges that she had sex with a 14-year-old boy that she was hired to watch in August 2007. Summer Nelson was charged Monday with four counts of lewd conduct with a child. (continued)

Missing 11-year-old Girl - Video
Lindsey Baum disappeared while walking home from a friend's house one evening between 9:00 and 10:00 pm, June 26. (continued)


pray for lindsay said...

Let's pray for Lindsay's safe return to her family.

Hopefully the kids from the hotel story will get the help they need to overcome such an horrific year.

The babysitter is disgusting. I'm really shocked when I hear about these women who sleep with underage boys (yes I understand men do it too) but I'm just always so disgusted by the fact that a grown woman could find a guy who is 14 sexually attractive, its just gross.

Marypoppin'pills said...

I agree... especially since women are supposed to be nurturers, not pedophiles.

CuriousDad said...

Hope they find lindsey alive and Well, Hope the #1 people get the electric chair.

CuriousDad said...

This is a two parter becuase I want to seperate one side of my thoughts with another. As far as the Babysitter and the 14 year old.

She was in a position of responsibility over him. She should get jail time.

Marypoppin'pills said...

Ok, I have to say it: Lindsey Baum had a 10:00pm curfew. Who besides me thinks this is too late for a young girl of 11 years old?

CuriousDad said...

The whole older person with a younger person thing. I really wonder statements like this comes from sometimes: "I'm really shocked when I hear about these women who sleep with underage boys (yes I understand men do it too) but I'm just always so disgusted by the fact that a grown woman could find a guy who is 14 sexually attractive, its just gross."

Umm hello this is NOT pedophilia; we all were 14-17 at one time and that is when our interest in sex started (ok for some, it starts a little earlier). It is when we become sexually attracted to Name your choice of sexual orientation (opposite or otherwise). It is ALSO when people start becoming physically sexually attractive. It is only till after we are 18 and older that that age group becomes Taboo and Illegal. This is a matter of protecting those who have not fully become able to protect and work on their own at an "adult" level. So no, I am not shock she became attracted to a fourteen year old and wanted to have sex with him. I do think she should be charged because she took advantage (willing or not on his part) of her closeness to him to "get with him" and what she did was illegal as it is considered rape.

How many times have you saw a sexy person and thought Yummy then found out he was under 18? Now it is your responsibility to not act on it once you know the persons age. But the attraction can easily be there.

CuriousDad said...

10pm on a summer evening? When it does not really get dark till 9:30ish?

Unsure depends on the responsibility level of the kid. I had a Curfew of "when it starts to get dark you should be heading home" when I was 9-13. No real curfew after I hit 14. It was just something I did not abuse often by staying out way late.

Marypoppin'pills said...

Where do you live that it does not get dark until 9:30? Maybe 8:30... but I guess I will pay attention to the time tonight when it starts to get dark... But still, I think 11 years old is too young for a girl to be walking several blocks home from a friends house at 10:00pm.

Daylight Duration - MPP said...

Sunset at 8:18 PM in direction 296° West-northwest

Duration of day: 14 hours, 14 minutes (1 minute, 28 seconds shorter than yesterday)

Marypoppin'pills said...

Curious Dad
One more thing, sorry... I don't know how old you are but I will hazard that we were probably born within 10 yrs. of each other, just from reading your posts, but it was a different time when we were kids. It was much safer, and my Parents used the street light as our curfew too, but at 11 years old, I had to stay on my own street. My freedom didn't come until I was about 13, but maybe that was because I was a girl, who knows?

CuriousDad said...

I am in Virginia:
Begin civil twilight 5:35a.m.
Sunrise 6:05 a.m.

Sunset 8:27 p.m.
End civil twilight 8:58 p.m.

BTW the "official" sunset time does not mean it is actually dark, just when the sun is below the horizon. Civil twilight time is the period between when the sunsets and there is still enough light to see by due to air diffusion of light from the sun. So yes my 9:30ish was off by a good hour. Either way around here there is usually still enough light to see by after 9pm due to the nearby city.

CuriousDad said...

10 years? that makes you from 30 to 50 ;). I will think 30 from now on :). I am 40. Yes, it was a different time in some ways. I am unsure if it is so much that there is more danger on our streets or that we are treating the danger differently now days because we are aware of the danger, constantly provided by the national news.
My sisters in many ways were more restricted then I was when we were young but that was because they would get into a bit worse and different trouble then I would. Nobody ever thought guys could or would be kidnapped/rapped etc.. Where they would worry about their daughters that way.

mom said...

The people involved in the #1 incident both deserve serious prison time. Good thing I'm not a judge. I would give them both life with no parole.

Babysitter. Sick. No, I have never mistakenly found myself sexually attracted to an underage boy. But then a lot of what attracts me to a man, besides his being good looking, is what's between his ears...and face it, a 14 year old isn't much of an emotional equal....nor is a 20 year old, to somebody even in their 30s. To me this is just gross. I think it is a fact of nature than men are attracted to visual stimulus, and so would probably find themselves sexually attracted to post pubescent women of all ages, and would therefore occasionally be shocked to find the object of their desire is, in fact, jail bait. For normal women, this is not the usual, or natural, scenario. I think that's part of why it seems particularly gross. That and the fact, as MPP pointed out, that women are by nature supposed to be more nuturing and, therefore, not abusive.

As for a 10 year old wandering around alone at 10:00 PM, I wouldn't allow it. I know this is a more rural place where this happened, and that people are typically more relaxed in those areas...but they shouldn't be, because this type of thing happens everywhere. As to whether this happens more now than when we were kids, or it just seems so because of the media attention it sometimes attracts, I say either way is very scary. Even if the numbers turn out in reality to be no greater than in the past, there are absolutely enough cases of this happening today that we all need to take notice and protect our children. If it turns out to be the case that we are simply more aware of this issue because of the media hype, all it would say to me is that we who roamed free and unscathed so many years back were part of an "ignorance is bliss" era. (Although a 12 year old girl who was in my same grade at my same school and lived just several houses down from me was raped and murdered on her way home from school one I lost that "it's safe to wander around alone in broad daylight", feeling right then and there.) Some of you will say that child abduction is too rare to get up in arms about, and that we should not overprotect our children. But as for my children, because of what those kids typically suffer when they are taken, I have always chosen to take every precaution to make sure mine are not among the estimated 500 children taken by STRANGERS in this country each year.

ericsmom said...

I am so sick of these lawyers trying to excuse cases of child abuse. This thug of a mother (see the gang writing on her neck). Could have gotten help if she really wanted too. She didn't want to. She was working everyday. So while at work she could have called the police. If its true that the boyfriend was mentally controlling her.

No she came home every day and cared for her one year old with this man. The one year old was fine, sounds like he or she was a very healthy baby. While she let her three kids get abused. And I believe she had to know her 11 year old was sexually abused. Its just hard to believe that she didnt' know this wasn't going on.

I can't imagine going into the bathroom and seeing your child crying and not doing anything. Your son and daughter have bruises all over their body. Their bones are protruding. How can you not do anything????

And I would never let me child walk around late at nite. I am sorry, but the world is a crazy place!! Even in the day I wouldn't want her walking alone. If she wanted to go somewhere I would want her to go in a group.
There are sick people looking to prey on the weak and vulnerable.

I hope she will be found alive!!

ericsmom said...


You sound like my mom when I was growing up. I would get so annoyed! Because I felt like I had no freedom. She always seemed to be there. If I was at a friends house she would call to make sure I was okay. If I babysat for someone in the area, my dad would write down the license plate number, etc.

Yeah, as a child I was embarrassed and thought I had the worst parents. But as I grew up and had my own child. I understand all they did for us was out of love. I have two younger sisters and they still worry about us. If I travel anywhere, she worries. Wants to know the exact name of the hotel we are staying at, phone numbers, etc. Just a moms love.

Marypoppin'pills said...

Nice to have a fellow Virginian on board, Curious Dad.

And I was extremely close in guessing your age... I will not disclose mine, but it is on the underside of yours. ;)

WTF? said...

MPP, you have to remember that it's summer and very far north. My kids just have to be home before it's dark out and that's around 9:30pm so it's not AS bad as it sounds, expecially for a few blocks away in a tiny little town.

I've been following this case because it occured during the same time my 12 year old was attending camp in the same area, and to me the police really botched this by not immediately issuing an Amber Alert for the child. The initial conclusion was that she'd run away and was likely still hiding out with friends in town because she was angry her parents were separating.

WTF? said...

I don't think parents do their children any favors by making them believe they're unsafe walking or biking around their own neighborhoods. Do you really want to raise people too afraid to walk out the front door? I'm more of the free range philosophy myself. Stranger abduction is extemely rare (And Mom, 500 is wrong. More like >100).

WTF? said...

Today civil wlight ends at 9:32pm and it was even later than that a few weeks ago.

mom said...

eric's mom,
You know, I expected that my children would be upset by my protectiveness...especially when there are always friends out there whose moms seemingly let them do anything and everything...but so far we have had very little push back.
Oddly, my oldest son, who is the most adventurous of the bunch, and the one who requierd the most wrangling, just seemed to accept it when we said no to something that seemed too "Out there" for our comfort...which always shocked me. He never argued back, which I eventually took to maybe mean that he really didn't want to do some of those things too badly himself, and maybe enjoyed the "protection" of our saying no. Maybe a year or so ago I was talking with my oldest son (now age 23) and asking what he most liked and disliked about his childhood. I was surprised he didn't have a bigger grievance list (all parents can just expect some grievances after the fact, no matter how much we try to be good parents) but when he mentioned that he felt I was too protective over certain things, I have to say I expected that one. What I wasn't expecting was his answer to my question, "What kinds of things that I didn't let you do bothered you the most?" I expected a list of priveleges events he had missed out on because of my rules. He said that he never understood why I wouldn't let him wear black tennis shoes, those giant legged pants, and all black clothing, as was the custom of the scarier looking kids in his Jr. High. I said something to the effect of, "That's it? How I let you dress?" He said yeah, that was his biggest complaint. I asked if he felt he had missed out on any fun experiences that I had said no to, and he said he really had not been bothered by the safety rules, but just the clothing. I told him that he was my first child to want to dress that way and I just hadn't wanted him to look like one of those kids who we sometimes see who look "scary." (I did help him tint the tips of his hair blonde and let him wear big black shirts and the wide leg jeans...although not the super ridiculously wide ones, and did require that they actually fit....but I always said no to the black shoes. Not sure why exactly that those were such a big deal to me. I would not think twice about them today. OH well, we practice on the first one sometimes. I meant well.) Then I had to ask him if, looking back on what fools some of those kids looked like, if he wasn't a little bit glad in hindsight that I had said no. He started laughing and told mne that I make an excellent point.

My husband and I try to make our kids' lives as normal as possible, but just do what we can to make things a bit safer. For instance, our daughter LOVES concerts. We let her go see most anybody she likes who comes to town (I even took her myself to NY earlier this year to see a band she really loves), but because she is 15, her daddy or one of her brothers always accompany her. I have always called other parents to check up on invitations and what kind of supervision will be taking place...and a couple of times said no based on the answers I have gotten. The one time my daughter completely freaked out about an invitation I declined on her behalf ("Everybody elses' mom is letting them go!") it turned out, as we found out after the fact, that "everybody else's mothers" had actually also ended up saying no too. I had only had the unfortunate distinction of having been the first to refuse. (That one went a long way in my favor in "proving" that normal mothers DO care what their kids do and whether they are safe and supervised, contrary to popular teen lore.) But because we are careful, my husband and I have made a point of making ourselves VERY available to ferry our kids from place to place, or accompany them wherever, etc., so that they don't miss out on normal things. So far, so good.

mom said...

Well WTF,
That is a statistic I had heard a few years back. I had assumed it was probably at least the same, if not more prevalent by now. However, even if 100 children per year suffer unspeakable things (I still believe it's more), and many of them eventually die at the hands of that stranger, that's still 100 families per year completely destroyed...forever. And 100 innocent children who are hideously tortured and possibly murdered. I think that's a lot...especially when doing something like picking your child up aftre dark, or keeping a good eye on them at the playground COULD make the difference between your child being safe or being the victim of an unthinkable crime. After all, who are these sick perverts picking up? Kids walking beside their mothers? No. Many times its a crime of opportunity...and if your child is roaming alone somewhere when a perv comes along, they are at risk. I know when I go to my children's friends houses to pick them up after dark they will not be available for an opportunstic kidnapper on the way home.

Marypoppin'pills said...

Thank you, WTF. I figured there would be a slight difference, but not much. It is 8:55 right now and almost completely dark where I am.

Curious Dad, how about we meet in the middle on that one? :)

CuriousDad said...

My original said 9:30ish so I was actually not entirely sure when actual dark was and had to look it up when someone questioned my number, so either way it works for me. It was most definetly dark around 9:00. :)

WTF? said...

Mom, you'd be better off worrying about your child being hit by lightning. Statistically, there is more of a chance of that happening than a stranger abduction. So, would you keep your child inside 24/7 to make sure they never get struck? Of course not, because that would be ridiculous.

MinuteMuggle said...

On the topic of women and stat rape:

I think the only way that a grown woman would put the moves on an underage person is that she needs serious therapy. I think Curious Dad explained it best though: it's the fact if you KNOW the person is underage and if you act on it that it is wrong. Being attracted to someone does not make you a pedophile. However, if I were looking at a person and thinking they were cute and then I found out that they were underage, I would be embarrassed and turned off!

I have met many young men in my career who do NOT look like they are 16. But I do not know what is going through a woman's mind when she goes ahead and takes advantage of a young man. She needs serious help because she does in no way understand boundaries and ethics. The young man, at the time may think it's the best thing that ever happened to them of course, but maybe they would regret it later.

If it were my son I would want the woman to go to jail. There is a huge double standard when it comes to males vs. women in this situation.

Psyber Chica said...


I'd rather my child die from getting hit with lightning than to be tortured and murdered.

Psyber Chica said...


You hit the nail on the head. I have been with my husband since he was 16 and he is now 29. I have watched him grow into a man. Looking at his pictures from when he was 18, there is no way that my 27 year old self would be attracted to his 18 year old self, much less his 14 year old self.

mom said...


NO, but I do keep them in during lightning storms.

Kind of like how I don't keep them locked in the house 24/7, but do take precautioons when they go on outings that are more likely to pose a threat. Duh.

And there are ways of teaching your kids about safety without having to scare them. They don't need to know about child rape or be warned about child abduction and murder every time they leave the house. But you can tell them that some adults are not nice and sometimes they trick children into going places with them when their parents don't know, and sometimes they do things to them that are not nice, so to be safe from that they should:

(Insert you family's list of stranger danger rules here)

Why does everything have to be so black or white? There is a lot of gray area between keeping your children ignorant (and therefore, completely helpless) of the very real potential dangers they may face and teaching them that somebody is waiting to kill them every time they step foot outside. Either extreme is a really stupid way to go.

ericsmom said...


Yeah, for the most part I actually liked hanging out with my family growing up. Yeah some of their strictness drove me nuts! But all kids go thru that I know.

And I was laughing when I read your sons response. About you not letting him wear black tennis shoes, etc.

ericsmom said...

STATS my butt. Tell that to a family whose child was kidnapped.

Imagine, not knowing what is happening to your son or daughter. How scared they have to be!!

mom said...

Eric's mom,
Amen to that. It has to be the most horrific pain a parent can possibly endure. I cannot even imagine. In fact, I remember that the first time I held my first child in the hospital and was so overwhelmed with love for him that I could hardly bear it, it crossed my mind in that moment that the worst thing anybody could possibly do to another human being was to take their child away not let them know where he is or how he is.

And WTF, I have been thinking about your logic a bit. By your lightning/stranger danger comparison, it would also follow, by your logic, that since more children die from illnesses than being run over by cars, we should not bother protecting them in the street. In fact, going strictly by your logic, that means we ought not protect them from illnesses or being hit by cars...just leave it all to chance. Is that what you mean to imply?

Just because we don't have control over every possible danger, it by no means means we are not obligated to do our best to lessen our kids' chances of being harmed in those circumstances where just a little logic goes a long way in making something LESS dangerous. Not a lot of kids die by falling out of high rise buildings either...but there is no way in hell I would leave a low window hanging open in such a place with a toddler running around, just the same.

WTF? said...

I'm sorry your emotions on the topic are preventing you from understanding the pointof my post. Of course it's horrible and tragic when it happens. It's horrible when any child dies prematurely for any reason. The fact is that there are 63 million children under the age of 14 in the U.S. There are approximately 100 stranger abduction per year.60% of the time, the child is recoverd alive. So the odds of your child being murdered and abducted by a stranger are 40 out of 63 million. I'm not going to let numbers like that inform my decision about letting my children ride their bikes to the library on a summer afternoon. Obviously all parents should teach their children never to get in a car with a stranger etc... That's just common sense, but chidren aren't being snatched off the street willy nilly like the press would have you believe.

mom said...

To each his own...