I am writing to extract some perspective on my situation. I happen to have an enviable situation with a wonderful nanny that we trust implicitly. She has been with us for 2.2 years and is still going strong making all of our lives better just by being here. She is a live-in and for that I am grateful because I have many mornings I have to leave very early and I would hate to have to count on a commuting nanny. Our live-in set up is not as grand as some of my friends and associates, but it does afford her some privacy. Her private room and bathroom is located off the kitchen. All of our bedrooms are located on the second floor. This brings me to our situation. Our nanny has been dating a young man for 10 months and she knows he intends to propose on Valentine's Day. We live in Danville (* spell check had changed this to Danbury) and he lives in San Francisco. Our nanny has been spending most of her weekends in the city, but she would like it if when "Bob" came out during the week to take her to dinner or a movie, if he could spend the night with her here. Part of me says I shouldn't have a problem with this because she is a respectable, responsible adult and the other part of me is somewhat squeamish because I have three daughters, ages 6-12 and I wonder about the example this might be setting. My husband is also not crazy about the idea of having another man in the house. Has anyone been in this position before? Advice?
Monday
Should Nanny be Permitted Conjugal Visits?
Received Monday, January 5, 2009
I am writing to extract some perspective on my situation. I happen to have an enviable situation with a wonderful nanny that we trust implicitly. She has been with us for 2.2 years and is still going strong making all of our lives better just by being here. She is a live-in and for that I am grateful because I have many mornings I have to leave very early and I would hate to have to count on a commuting nanny. Our live-in set up is not as grand as some of my friends and associates, but it does afford her some privacy. Her private room and bathroom is located off the kitchen. All of our bedrooms are located on the second floor. This brings me to our situation. Our nanny has been dating a young man for 10 months and she knows he intends to propose on Valentine's Day. We live in Danville (* spell check had changed this to Danbury) and he lives in San Francisco. Our nanny has been spending most of her weekends in the city, but she would like it if when "Bob" came out during the week to take her to dinner or a movie, if he could spend the night with her here. Part of me says I shouldn't have a problem with this because she is a respectable, responsible adult and the other part of me is somewhat squeamish because I have three daughters, ages 6-12 and I wonder about the example this might be setting. My husband is also not crazy about the idea of having another man in the house. Has anyone been in this position before? Advice?
I am writing to extract some perspective on my situation. I happen to have an enviable situation with a wonderful nanny that we trust implicitly. She has been with us for 2.2 years and is still going strong making all of our lives better just by being here. She is a live-in and for that I am grateful because I have many mornings I have to leave very early and I would hate to have to count on a commuting nanny. Our live-in set up is not as grand as some of my friends and associates, but it does afford her some privacy. Her private room and bathroom is located off the kitchen. All of our bedrooms are located on the second floor. This brings me to our situation. Our nanny has been dating a young man for 10 months and she knows he intends to propose on Valentine's Day. We live in Danville (* spell check had changed this to Danbury) and he lives in San Francisco. Our nanny has been spending most of her weekends in the city, but she would like it if when "Bob" came out during the week to take her to dinner or a movie, if he could spend the night with her here. Part of me says I shouldn't have a problem with this because she is a respectable, responsible adult and the other part of me is somewhat squeamish because I have three daughters, ages 6-12 and I wonder about the example this might be setting. My husband is also not crazy about the idea of having another man in the house. Has anyone been in this position before? Advice?
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63 comments:
If she is a responsible adult, there should be no reason why you wouldn't allow her to have him stay over, ESPECIALLY if they are to be engaged. If you are worried about what activities she may engage in, talk to her about it beforehand. Or maybe ask her to wait until the children are asleep before he comes in. Is there a side/back door he can come in which would make it less obvious to the children he is there?
Or, offer to pay for a hotel.
You will probably end up losing her as a live in sooner or later anyway, because people who are engaged....tend to want to live together.
Tough question. At my previous nanny position, I was a live-in. My boyfriend would spend the night occasionally (maybe 5 times tops the whole time I live there for over 2 years). My bosses had no problem with it because I lived there. I would always let them know beforehand if he was coming over and if he would be coming back with me late at night( after a play, dinner, etc). They had him over for dinner and talked to him , liked him and got to know him. They had no problem with him coming over anytime and knew he was great with their son. I know that not everyone would be comfortable with this but if a nanny lives in, shes an adult and is respectful of boundaries, etc there is no reason he cant sleep over just one night. If its really an issue with the girls, hubby, etc is there perhaps a spare room he can sleep in? Its a sticky situation because if she lives there, its her house too. You don't want her to resent you by feeling you are treating her like a child? I say, let her have this one night, I don't see the big deal of it all, shes an adult.
RE-POST FOR ANONYMOUS:
Anonymous said...
I am a not so conservative nanny, but not a wild one either. I do not feel confortable with the idea of the guy spending the whole night, in other words sleeping with her. It is Not a good example for the almost teenager because they are NOT married. When your daughter's crazy yrs comes trust me she will bring it up. She will definetely remeber. As for just visiting, I think that will be OK and nice and somehting new to experience with your family, but not sleeping with the nanny at your house. When they get married, is another story, and chances are u will loose her, or she'll become a live-out, or now the husband can move in and the rest... willbe OK!!!
11:35 AM
If your daughter remembers later and brings it up as another poster has mentioned, let her know that your nanny was a responsible adult who happened to be living in your home, while she, on the other hand, is a child that belongs to you. BIG DIFFERENCE. If random guys were leaving your house every morning, I would be worried about a bad example being set, but an adult having her boyfriend spend the night is not a big deal.
I'm just a little confused. You and your nanny live in Danbury (Connecticut)?? And her boyfriend comes all the way from San Francisco to visit her during the week? You didn't mean Danville, not Danbury? And she spends her weekends in what city? "The city" often refers to San Francisco, so you mean she flies to San Francisco from CT every weekend??
Anyway, this is a tough question. I'd say also that if you have a guest bedroom you should put him up in it, if you think his overnight presence would set a bad example for your daughters. It is her home as well as yours, BUT she still has to abide by whatever house rules you have in general, so you'd be well within reason to just say you aren't comfortable with the idea. This might be the time however, for you to discuss with your nanny what her long term housing preferences are when she does become engaged, and of course, when she gets married, you can't expect her to live in. It sounds like you guys have a lot to figure out here.
I have to agree with Anon. If this happens and your oldest girl catches on, she will more than likely use that against you when she becomes a young adult. I am a live-out but if I was a parent with a live-in and three impressionable young girls, I would only allow this if the boyfriend came over after the girls were asleep and left before they were awake.
I agree with Anon. If this happens and your oldest girl finds out about it she will definitely have something to try to hold against you later in her teenage years. As for me, if I had a live-in and three impressionable young girls, I would only allow this to happen if the boyfriend left before the girls wake up in the morning.
This is a tough situation because your nanny is an adult. I am 23 years old and I know many people who (even not engaging in activities outside of marriage) spend the night to save the drive back etc. I have absolutely no problem with that.
I think where this gets sticky is because of your girls. I do not think it would be setting a good example for them to have him spend the night with her. Is there another place he could sleep such as a guestroom or the couch? Or to be sneaky if he could come in after they were asleep and leave before they wake up. I just don't think it would be a good example for your girls to see, especially your 12 year old. Kids now a days know so much and I baby-sit a 9 year old. Some of the things she says, I have to redirect her to the more correct way that her parents would want, not the way the kids on the bus are :) So your daughter may already be hearing things etc. and for her to know that her nanny has her bf spending the night is probably not a good idea.
So would you have to say, yes you can have him spend the night, but please avoid fornicating under our roof? Or are they allowed to have relations?
A good friend of mine was a live in nanny for a family for close to four years before moving on. She also had a boyfriend that she had been dating for two years before she started the job and remained with him until she left. The family would let her have the boyfriend stay the night, since she lived there full time. She was really respectable, an amazing nanny and they had met her boyfriend several times before he began staying the night.
I think you should let her. I mean, I understand that the situation is kind of odd but if she has been with you this long and you still trust her with everything AND highly respect her, what's to worry about? I highly doubt they'd have sex IN your house, in her room. She'd probably be waaaay too weirded out to let that ever happen. (Cos nothing says "I'm hot and bothered!" like three young children asleep above you and the possibility of a parent coming in the kitchen for a late night snack.)
Use your best judgment and know she will use hers. She sounds like a devoted nanny, which is hard to find a lot of times, right? It also probably took her a lot of guts to even broach the subject and ask about it. It isn't like you will awake one morning to see her and the boy getting it on on your breakfast bar or anything.. Also, if it makes you feel better request that the boyfriend either leaves before your kids wake up *or* make it appear like he never slept there and have him "arrive" in the morning dressed and ready to go, so they don't ask questions or try to use it against you later in life. (which I HIGHLY doubt they would do in the first place.)
Good luck and let us know how it goes!
I think you need to prioritize whose well-being comes first, your daughters or your nanny's. It sounds as if you and your DH are concerned about the example this would be setting for your girls, and I think they need to take priority.
In your position I would NOT allow sleepovers, but I would offer to subsidize a hotel room for them when he spends the night in your town. That will, of course, mean a chance nanny might be late arriving at your house, but IMO it would be better to have a slightly late nanny and no awkward questions about why "Bob" sleeps in nanny's room.
I have no idea if you could make provisions for her to have a more private living space. If so, and there was less chance of your girls running into "Bob" when he would stay over, that might help.
FWIW, as a nanny, I wouldn't have asked you for permisson to have "sleepovers", I would have asked to discuss the hotel option with you.
Remember if you are not accommodating it WILL play into her decision to move in with him- as it will become an issue I'm sure. I agree with the idea of allowing it as long ad he leaves before the children wake up and comes in after they are asleep. If they don't know then what's the harm? If it helps you keep your amazing nanny then it may be the best solution.
I think a good compromise will be a good idea here. In these situations, a little give and take is necessary so that everyone involved is content and no one feels they are getting the short end of the stick.
A good compromise would be for the BF to be allowed to stay over, however since there are impressionable children in the home, it would be best if he slept in separate quarters...even on the living room sofa if need be. OR they can stay in a nearby hotel which the employer can either pay for or subsidize for.
As a parent or nanny, I would feel both situations were indeed fair.
I don't see what the big deal is. She's been dating the guy for almost a year. They are planning on getting married. Why would it be setting a bad example to the girls? Two adults who are committed to each other (not to mention planning on marriage) should be able to sleep in the same room.
And, yes, maybe one or all of the daughters will bring it up in the future and try to use it against you, but big deal. They are going to try to use a lot of things against you. Don't let them. She is an adult. You are her employer, not her mother. Her personal life should be just that.
I do have to say, though, I would DEFINITELY not be sneaking anyone in or out of the house. If one of them sees or hears something you are trying to hide, it becomes a much bigger issue than it needs to be.
If your daughters bring it up in the future, the answer is, the nanny was an adult, with a job, and no longer living with her parents. When the time comes, and you are no longer living at home, and are supporting yourself, Dad and I won't be able to tell you what you can and can't do. Until then, you follow our rules.
Its not a good idea. I met a family in the past that had a great nanny. They really loved her, etc. She started dating this man for 8 months. The nanny had a separate entrance to the house. It was actually a walk-out basement situation. But really nice, like her own apartment.
Well they didn't think anything of her having guest over. Until, one day (they had nanny cams in the house) the guy was seen going thru their things during the nite. He never went after the kids. BUT he did go in their rooms and was seen looking thru the stuff on their dressers. What does a 4 and 6 year old have on their dressers that he would want. YOu got me.
But very scary situation.
Well, my position is going to completely different from those expressed here.
The whole thing is icky to me.
Why would a nanny want a boyfriend in her employers house. I would never do that. i would not even need my employers to pick up the tab for a hotel.
If I were dating someone and they even suggested or seemed comfortable to ask to spend the night in my employers home I would be very wary of him, lol, but I am conservative and would not be having any 'relations'
I dated someone once and my employers devised every way to meet him. I was very annoyed.
It's my private life and my business.
If my male friend cannot afford two nights in a hotel, something is seriously wrong with his finances.
Unfortunately for you too OP, the nanny's space is quite awkward. I can't imagine that being comfortable. It's like she really is a part of your family, and yes, that would be a bad example for your girls.
Sine you do like your nanny, this is quite the pickle.
Yes,, the hotel idea is the best solution, and clearly your nanny will not be paying for it.
I can not imagine asking an employer to subsidize my boyfriend spending the night in a hotel. I think most employers would rightfully think anyone with this request was way over the line, not to mention the aforementioned "ICKY" and tacky. And no, I would not have him spend the night with me in my employers' house either. GET A ROOM - AT YOUR OWN EXPENSE (OR YOUR BF'S) EXPENSE!!!!
I still can't believe this nanny. Talk about poor taste.
If I knew I would be wanting to have ''relations' with my significant other, I would seriously rethink live-in jobs, or go local hahaha.
How can any nanny think that this is appropriate.
See, here is the problem; there is a school of thought that live-ins should make less...say what?
Perhaps that's why she feels it's the employers responsibility to provide a space for her boyfriend, who is apparently 2 years old and can't take care of himself.
Who is doing who a favor here. For some reason some parents think they are doing you a favor...well they are not. It is a sacrifice on most nanny's part to come live in your home and give up certain luxuries for the most part.
The right to entertain is largely a part of that sacrifice.
I used to turn down all live-in jobs, but I've made a conscious choice for the moment to live without certain things.
I would never accept less money to live in someone's home, unless that home includes a separate detached space that is exclusively mine.
I have an entire floor where I am now, but it's still not the same. I would not dream of entertaining ladies nor gents here.
It's not that bad of a drive... 45 minutes without traffic tops, so honestly they shouldn't complain if he is leaving at night. Or he can take Bart, which leaves out of the Dublin/Pleasanton station.
I wouldn't feel comfortable having another male in my house, even if it were her brother. It just would feel wrong to me to be a nanny and have my fiance over to spend the night at a place that wasn't my own. Weird.
Honestly ... you know and trust her. I think it's perfectly reasonable to say you do not know him well enough to host him as an overnight guest. Anywa, don't you think they would be more comfortable in a hotel.
I would assume that the employers have met the boyfriend/intended fiance. In which case, this would be my policy, and only for a long term nanny with a man she was especially serious about. If nanny and boyfriend had late night plans in my town, I would request that she let me know that it might be possible he would stay over. Beyond that, I would let her know that I wouldn't want the children or even my husband to run in to him, morning or night, so they should time his arrival and departure to accomodate that.
I cannot imagine that anyone would find that much to do in Danville that they would drive out and need to stay over more than once in a blue moon.
The set up sounds somewhat removed from the family, so I think it would work.
I had a nanny who got engaged to her boyfriend two months after starting work. They had been together 4 years. She was a live-in and I knew we were going to lose her, I could just feel it. Because of that, we tried to be especially accomodating to her and her fiance. We even invited him to go skiing with us several times.
He was a great guy and she the best nanny we ever had. She ended up staying with us until the wedding at which time she started living out. Having a live out was less convenient to us, but it was worth it to us because we had her. She left us when she was seven months pregnant and we still hear from her.
I have had four nannies since then and while I would never let a less than stellar nanny remain in my employ, these nannies have all been different. In that, even if they were engaged, they are just different then our conjugal visit nanny. She was a lot like us, and always tried to put herself in our shoes.
*Our nanny had a private room and bath in the basement which also included a large playroom and gym. When he slept over, he slept on the sofa in the playroom.
To Em who said:
"If I knew I would be wanting to have ''relations' with my significant other, I would seriously rethink live-in jobs, or go local hahaha."
Why do you assume the nanny is trying to have sex with her boyfriend at her employers house? Are you that ignorant to think that people who sleep in the same bed who happen to be together HAVE to have sex?
He comes from OUT OF TOWN and is her fiance you twit.
It's probably because you're conservative. Blech.
OK, Danville is maybe 40 minutes from San Francisco absolute TOPS anytime after 9:00 PM. No reason in the world BF can't just drive on home. Your nanny is displaying a lack of professionalism by even proposing this and I suspect she has one foot out the door already. (Not necessarily to leave the job, but on her way to wanting to live out). When exactly do they plan to get married?
To allow your nanny to have her boyfriend stay the night,engaged or not,would be irresponsible on your part as a parent. You have 3 daughters who are old enough to observe what is going on in your home. Promoting premarital intimate relations( sex or even simply sharing a bed) shows a lack of judgement on any adult figures part. Children often learn what they live. If you are okay with your daughters learning that it is okay to share a bed with a man that they are not married to,then allow it.
Nothing wrong with being conservative when it comes to our children these days though and I would highly suggest that you encourage your nanny to engage in sleep overs elsewhere.
Also,while you trust your nanny and may even know this young man..lets not forget about the staggering amount of single moms who bring men home only to find they were after their young daughters..this could apply to nanny too..as outrageous as that may seem..why take a chance? It's simply NOT worth it. Nanny needs to get her groove at at the Motel 6!
Seattle,any idea of the staggering amount of teen pregnancies in this country? Perhaps a little conservative parenting could help in that area?
I was a single mom for 10 years. Dated a lot but never once allowed a man to stay the night when my child was in my home. I was re-married before my son ever saw my then boyfriend,now husband and I share a bedroom or bed!
Best of luck OP!! Good old fashioned morals and values never hurt anyone!
I am most amazed at the posters suggesting that the employer pay for the BF's hotel! Is this to be just for a grown man's room, or for the nanny and her BF to spend the night together? Either way, who in world thinks this is something an employer should pay for? Not only does it make the BF look like a total loser, it is just plain wrong!!!! Have him drive home, or get a room that you or BF pay for and come back to work in the morning. No one said she had to spend the night there, I imagine she is free to come and go.
OP, I personally think your nanny has bigger balls than her BF to even ask if he can stay the night!
You should really think twice before allowing this, and the off-chance that your daughters may witness it and the impact it could have on them.
Sarah too, I could not agree more; this is my problem with this scenario. Clearly, this type of nanny would make it the employers' responsibility to pay for her hotel.
She has already put the employer in a spot with this request.
I definitely don't think that's the employers' responsibility, but it's better for Op to accept that responsibility to save herself the embarrassment; but then there's the precedent being set here.
Maybe boyfriend will want to come more often- Good Lord, what have we gotten ourselves into here. Now we need to budget for boyfriends???
Here's what Op could do...tell nanny that because of your girls you didn't think it would work, though you really like her and really want her to be comfortable, but....
I think she will understand that; then don't offer any solutions, after all we are talking about 2 grown people of which at least one is a loser, but that isn't your problem now is it?
I don't agree with the sneaking around either, though I would not be surprised if nanny and silly boyfriend went for this idea.
If you do go for the latter, I hope the bathroom is in the room.
yuck! loser boyfriend.
That's a whole lot of luggage in your home- pun intended!
I'd suggest have your kids meet him as a guest in your home and then make it obvious that he will stay in the guest room as he well should,and this is normal to have guests over, but your husband doesn't want him there...enough said, problem solved.
Seattle:
what I said was a joke. Of course I know that 2 people who are together can lie in the same bed and not have marital type relations. I should know this, I live this life. There is a reason I put 'lol' at the end of that sentence. I do know there are many different values out there.
He comes from out of town and is a twit? this I agree with, but guess what, I don't care if he's from out of town, state, country, or space,or twitland, he needs to grow up and take care of his own responsibilities.
Who cares where he sleeps, he is a grown man, he can sleep in a car for all I care, as long as it's not Op's car.
By the way, fiancee and boyfriend are one and the same in my book when it comes to having sex or the lack of sex.
...and yes I'm conservative, and??
I believe posts express individual opinions? and that's mine, I could care less what yours is, but that's what makes life interesting, we all have different opinions, and I will always state mine.
I could tell you what I thought of your values, but that's not what this is about is it? Nevertheless, let's make it crystal clear that I will not hesitate to give it if needs be.
You do want your nanny to feel at home in the house. She should be allowed to have guests and those guests should be allowed to stay overnight from time to time.
There is nothing wrong with a fiance of a nanny staying overnight with her so long as he isn't ramming her head in to the headboard all night long.
Quite honestly, I am shocked by you liberals. I thought you would be more well rounded. A nanny isn't a nun. She's a human being and the more like you she is, the better care your children are going to get.
Em brings up a good point, concerning the Hotel room. I would be highly embarrassed if anyone were to pay for my room for a rendezvous with my BF.
I think all of you are having so little sex that you sit around imagining all of the sex you think the rest of us are having. Believe it or not, most couples, especially those who have been together for 10 months can probably go a night without humping like wet dogs.
I asked my employer if my father could stay with me when he came to town. (I have an apartment connected to the garage with a seperate unit and my father was going to come out for two days). They offered to pay for his hotel. For whatever reason, they did and I was not embarassed by it. If my father could have easily afforded a hotel, I wouldn't have asked for him to stay with me. I hadn't seen him in two years (he is in the military). Everything worked out fine and no one lost respect for anyone.
So, in essence, calm down asshats.
Hahaha!
Father.
Boyfriend.
Biiiiig difference.
And I don't understand why your MB wouldn't let him stay?
Ridiculous.
But... it's her house.
Living in a suite of rooms as part of your compensation, even if you consider it your hame, does not give you free reign to do as you please, any more than do adult children who live at home with Mom and Dad. When I returned home at the age of 28, fiance in tow, to live for two weeks prior to our wedding (we lived across the country and were getting married in my home state)my fiance slept on the couch, or at a friends.I would never have dreamed of having him in my bedroom at my parents' home for any reason. I would NOT allow a strange (to me) man in my house, either in my Nanny's room or on the couch or in a spare room, especially with 3 young girls of my own, whether he was a boyfriend, fiance or husband. I would say no and that would be the end of it. I wouldn't get into his sleeping arrangements elsewhere (nor offer to pay) as they are not my business. I would, however, be really irritated that I had been put in this uncomfortable position by an immature and unthinking nanny even if I didn't show it overtly.
Mapquest says 32 miles fromm SF to Danville, so if the guy can't manage to drive home that far after a date, he shouldn't be getting married.
I would not let someone in my home as a houseguest (regardless of where they were sleeping) if I did not know them very well or have some kind of background check done on them.
Especially if I had teen/preteen daughters. You just never know what kind of weirdos are out there these days.
I am not a Nanny or the employer of one, but last time I checked a live-in nanny got paid less because her "rent" is taken out of her pay. When I rent a place, I should be able to have who I want come over. It is her room that she pays for, you are not her Mother. Your moral's or value's are not hers. While I assume she would be discreet, you should respect her as an adult to make her own decisions.
I am a live-in nanny and I do NOT get paid less.
If that were the case, I'd choose to just live out and manage my own money
I am fortunate because I have my own studio apartment within my employers house with a seperate entrance. My employers really like my bf, and have no problem with him sleeping over. However, if I only had a bedroom in the house, there is no way I would be allowing him to spend the night. I think that is just tacky. Whether or not we are or are not having sex, the insinuation is still there in everyones mind! My boyfriend came home with me over the summer, and slept in our guest room. I, like whomever said before me, would never have my boyfriend sleep in the same room with me at my parents house!
I thought I was going to be the only one here with this opinion...but things took a turn toward the end of the thread.
First, nanny is absolutely tacky and out of line to ask that her boyfriend come sleep with her in her employer's house. The guy lives 32 miles away for gosh sakes! We drive a half hour or more to get to a good restaurant for dinner on a regular basis...and we have never once felt entitled to sleep there after dinner. Since he lives so close by, I would also not offer my guest room or sofa to him. He can grow up and pay for his own hotel or drive his sorry butt home and sleep. You are not his parents. You don't owe him a place to sleep after a night on the town. Nanny can go sleep with him at his house if need be, and she can make the *GASP* half hour drive back to your house herself before work. And asking the employer to pay for his hotel...shameless...but more so of nanny than her boyfriend, since she was the one who actually had the gall to ask.
Tell her that you don't feel comfortable because of your girls and leave it at that. A real adult, if she is one, will take the hint and not argue with you. If she suggests sneaking so the girls don't know, or really anything else that would be asking you to compromise on the decision you have just given her, then you will know that you are not dealing with an adult, or a professional.
PS While it is true that people can sleep together and not have sex...I am sitting here thinking back to when my husband and I were much younger...and we weren't always so, shall we say...restrained. Heck, when given rooms with two twin beds in them, we always slept in one twin together. They're not an old married couple...these are young, hormonal people who don't see each other every day. This nanny lacks enough class to have made the suggestion that she have sleepovers at your house in the first place. I wouldn't be too quick to assume she has the class to keep from having sex in the room right off your kitchen either. You give up certain freedoms as a live in.
This is the Nanny's space, this is not someone who is staying in someone's house because they need a place to stay. I have rented a room from someone before, from an older couple who had their 2 grandchildren living with them a boy and a girl, girl was 9 boy was 6. I never once was told I couldn't have my boyfriend over, and I never asked. I paid for my space and it was mine to do as I please without damaging anything or disturbing others with noise. Now while having sex I did keep the noise on a private level, like I said its my space, so the noise shouldn't leave that space. I can't believe some of you women saying that this nanny has no class because she even asked. This is 2009 people. Its not like shes hosting swinger parties in her room. She is wants to have her soon to be fiance spend the night. It doesn't matter if he lives 32 miles or across the street. It is her space, that she pays for and should be able to have who she wants over. Employers are not parents to the nanny, she is an adult renting a room and should be treated as such.
Sorry for the double post, I clicked submit twice.
"Personal rights and freedoms" have taken the place of common manners in our society.
Lindsey, if you had an office job, would you have sex on your boss's desk? Because you had to work late and didn't want to have to drive home?
Renting a room from someone is essentially giving them YOUR business, same as buying a product from a store. If they are not good landlords, they lose your business. Being a live-in EMPLOYEE means that you are being paid for YOUR product, in this case your services as a nanny. IF you want your customers to keep giving you business, you defer to them sometimes out of common sense. If you don't care whether they want to buy your product or not, you can tell them to f-themselves and do whatever you want.
IMO, a professional nanny who had experiemce as a live-in, should clarify this question BEFORE moving into someone's house. "What is your policy concerning guests and/or overnight guests?" Depending on the area the nanny will live in and the family she is moving in with, the answer could vary greatly, and it hardly seems like an unusual scenario.
cali mom,
I think you are wrong. I think that the policy really should be no overnight guests, male or female- initially.
When a nanny starts she is a stranger and anyone she knows is even further removed.
Once you get to know the nanny and sense her responsibility and crowd of friends, you can change your mind or address the rules.
And male overnight guests are pretty much a no-no, except in special circumstance. We allowed our nanny to do such because we wanted to preserve her standing as a live-in nanny for as long as possible so her boyfriend (of 2 years) stayed over most Wednesday nights. He always left before the children woke. They knew he was at the house, but they didn't know he stayed over. The nanny's life was deeply intertwined with ours. When the BF would call nanny, she would be on speaker phone in the car and the BF would always say hello to the children. He came to their birthday parties and brought them birthday presents.
Some of you need to loosen up a bit. Of course you may be jaded by the fact that most nannies are in fact awful and shouldn't be working around children let alone rewarded with familial priviliges in your home.
We don't allow our grown son overnight girlfriends (exceptions made at Thanksgiving and Christmas or Summer visits when young ladies from school have used our GUEST ROOM)because we want to send a strong message to our two children still living in our house that we do not think its appropriate to sleep with boyfriends and girlfrtiends (which is quite a common thing for high schoolers to be tempted to do...in case that's a surprise to anyone here.)
It has nothing to do with the character of the people involved...its a matter of setting standards for our children and living them...not just yammering with our mouths.
And, no, you can't explain to kids that "Nanny X and Boyfriend Y are allowed to screw in the house (whether they do or not is moot...your kids will assume they do)because they are mature adults contemplating getting engaged in a few months." Why? because kids ALL think they are mature enough to make adult decisions, so they will then automatically deem it OK as long as they are "mature and responsible" (which they, by the nature of being teenagers, all believe themselves to be.) They also think they love and might marry every boyfriend that comes along until a certain age...especially those they prove their undying love to by giving them sex. Duh.
I for one don't want the first thought to go through my daughter's mind when some jerk tells her he loves her to trick her into sex to be, "Mom and Dad said that if I'm mature and we're in love it's OK. Maybe if I do this we'll get engaged ands get married someday like he says."
Tippy, you think I am wrong about what? I didn't say that nannies' boyfriends should automatically be allowed to spend the night in the nannies' bed. But I think YOU are wrong about "most nannies are awful".
Cali mom, the two scenerios aren't even comparable. I don't rent my cubicle, I am not paying for my "space" So no I would not have sex on my desk. A nanny is not being paid 24/7, once she is off the clock it is her time to do what she wants. As long as its legal and not harming anyone. She is not a child in their home, she is not a guest in there home. She is an employee, paying for a space when she is off work.
Tippy, I too would not let my boys ( I have 3) have ladies overnight when they get older unless they are engaged or married. But again this nanny is not their child, they have no right to tell she can't have sex before marriage.
Lindsey, she is still their employee, living on their property, and they CAN tell her she can't have premarital sex on their property. Just as a landlord can spell out guidelines in a lease agreement. Just because you pay some money to a landlord (which a nanny does not) doesn't mean the space is your property, and if she doesn't agree to the social limitations, she is free to find other living arrangements, and other employment, as well.
A live-in employee is NOT technically paying for her living space. She is being given room and board as part of her compensation for the product she is offering to her customers. It's not like she has the option of paying money in lieu of being the nanny. She has no "rent" which can be raised and she has zero utilities and zero commute costs. In return, the employers have to put up with someone sharing their property, but they get someone very accessible and yes, they do generally pay less. But I'd bet if you added the REAL cost of living (rent, heat, electricity, phone, cable, laundry, daily commuting), a live in employee still pays FAR FAR less for all this than an average commuting employee. That's the ONLY potential benefit to nannies who would choose to live in, as far as I can tell.
Cali Mom, Lets break it down like this the sq footage of one bedroom isn't very much. Lets say my apt was the exact same footage. I would expect to pay around $300-$400 tops, this would also mean that in this apt building there were communal bathrooms and kitchens. The utilities for said apt would be very small, maybe $20-30 for electric, phone is the same no matter where you live but you can assume she has a cell phone of her own that she pays for already. Maybe cable and internet $100. You are talking $600 incluing food, max for this space. Most of the jobs I have seen being posted are for significantly less monthly pay if room and board is included. Some offering $1000 a month and room and board. Sorry but if I am working 40 plus hours a months room and board plus $1000 is not enough a person making only $12 would still be getting just over $2300 a month. My point is this. She gets less pay, sometimes a lot less pay because she gets to live there. If in my apt my landlord tryed to tell me no sex or people over that would be absurd. This isn't any different. She isn't hurting anyone. She doesn't tell the parents she doesn't like them having sex. These are adults, not children. Just because they are her employer does not mean they can control her life. We can debate all day, obviously we have two very different opinons, and thats ok.
The parents are married and thier children live in the house. Nanny is there specifically to caretake the children, She is one of their primary role models. If mom and dad don't want their children's hired role model having sex, or having male bed partners, in their home, then she can't do it. If she doesn't like the arrangement, she can go get her own home, rent a hotel, stay at her boyfriend's house, or quit and get a job with people who don't believe that actions speak louder than words when raising children and modeling good values for them.
So, what if nanny likes to belt down a few in the sitting room, wearing mom's new snuggli? What if she likes having a nudie midnight snack in the kitchen "in her home?" What if she likes the dog to lick food off of her feet while masturbating on the couch...after hours of course...while everybody else is asleep and will not see?
When you are living in somebody else's house, you live by thier house rules and use exceptionally good judgment when there are kids in the house. And I would think, if you're the nanny, you might want to appear to have a little class to boot.
The fact that a live-in make significantly less is incorrect, especially in NY.CT suburbs. A live-in often makes the same as a live out.
Mom, all of those scenerios you us are things done OUTSIDE of HER space. If she wants to masturbate in her room, fine, as long as there is no offensive noises. If she wants to have a few drinks when she's off the clock IN HER ROOM, then fine, Having the dog lick food off her feet is just odd and if you think your nanny has mental problems then you should probably let her go, and the nude midnight snack?? againg this is something done outside of her space. You are all missing the vital point. She doesn't want to boink on the kitchen counter, or give him head with the children watching, or get bent over in the parents bed. She wants to have sex with her soon to be fiance in her room while she is off the clock. This is where she lives, do people expect live-ins to be nuns? and have no life? Yes when you live in someones house (even when rented) there are commone sense rules, I mean if they told her that she had to go to the bathroom outside, or only shower when no ones home, she should do it right???? I mean it is THEIR HOME and THEIR RULES.
Also, I live in Sacramento, CA and nannies get paid a lot less when live in. I've seen some offers for as little as $600 a month plus room and board.
Lindsey, your fantasy of the average citizen paying $400/mo for an apartment is silly. Anywhere within 150 miles of SF or NY, a 100 sq foot studio would cost you minimum $1000/mo, and you'd have hookers, junkies and homeless people going about their daily business right outside your windows. And that does not take into account the possibility of an actual mortgage payment. $20/mo for heat, electricty, gas (stove) and laundry? Not since about 1932. And you forgot about commute costs, assuming you are not within walking distance of your job. And internet requires a landline, about $50/mo.
But numbers aside, you are overlooking the most basic fact here: the nanny's employers ARE unquestionably, her landlords in some capacity. They get to decide if she is allowed to stay on THEIR property. And a lease agreement requires tenants to agree to certain rules, which, if broken, allows the landlord to evict them. If a person thinks the lease terms are ridiculous, they don't have to sign the lease and are free to look for a different apartment. Just because it is where you LIVE does NOT mean it is YOUR property. Even if you pay money or have a reduced salary in order to be ALLOWED to live there. And a nanny's employer is most DEFINITELY within their rights to reqiuire that the nanny set a good example for the children, WHILE ON THEIR PROPERTY.
I really just can't believe that any parents out there would not care about the example nanny sets for their children!
I suppose these are parents of not yet teens. Good luch with that when your kids grow up to have an "if it feels good, do it" mentality.
Well in Sacramento, to rent a room, because to find a space as small as just the space in 1 bdr doesn't exist. to rent a room here can be around $350-$500 depending on area, you can get a 1 bedrm apt with kitchen, bathroom, living room, etc., for $650. I know the SF and NY are not the norm. Did you just see the craigslist ad on CL WTF? For Las Vegas. Room and board plus $300 a month LOL.
Yes the employers can set rules in the contract, but if the OP of this letter had put in the contract "No overnight visitors, or No sex on OUR property, I can assume that she wouldn't be on here asking advice. So should they just be able to come up with random rules as time goes by?
Mom - No I am not the mother of any teens, I have a 6 yr old, 4 yr old and a 2 yr old, all boys. Women who are Mother's of teens are probably not in my age group. I am 26 and so we probably think different then someone my age. Maybe I will change my opinion when I get older, who knows. But I already teach my boys that their are consequences for your actions. We haven't talked about sex yet, I think I have at least a few years until then, but I am no hypocrite. I am not going to lie to them. I had sex before marriage. I will let them know that while I did make the decision to have pre-marital sex that I wish I would have waited til I met their Dad. That sex should be between two adults that love eachother and have a commitment to one an other. I am going to tell them that we would like to them to wait until they are married, and that if they ever feel like they are curious or thinking about having sex, to come to us first. I don't intend to drill into my children that sex is bad. I intend to have them educated and prepared. I cannot be with them 24/7, and most kids regardless of upbringing, do some experimenting in High school. I hope that they do wait until marriage, but if not I don't want them heading into that territory unprepared and not knowing what could come of it.
Lindsey
Experimenting in High school? Maybe back in my day, but not now. Kids are getting their start in at least Jr. High now. And the children are getting younger and younger. It's not unheard of to start educating your children about sex at 8 years of age now. Especially if they go to a co-ed school. I can't help but still be shocked at some of the things my kid is finding out about, and he goes to a very elite school. You can only shield them so much.... depending on your child's maturity level, and the types of questions they are asking, don't let them go for too long without clearing things up for them. Also, I don't really think it should be your kids business that you had pre-marital sex. What kid wants to hear that? Just tell them the other half of it... that it's better to wait.
Lindsey,
Actually you sound very much the same as me in terms of parenting styles and beliefs/realistic attitudes about what kids and adolecsents are like and likely to do.
That's the same message we have taught since, as you said, starting just a wee tad older than yours are now. And, believe it or not, I have not changed my thinking or views much in the years between where you are now and where I am now....only now I am seeing first hand the unimagined value and benefits of having been moderate and conservative in the presence of my children starting all those many years back. I thank God that even in my young years struggling to do the best I could with my kids...guessing at times and hoping for the best...YIKES!...we managed to model things that they could hold onto now that they are becoming more independent. No, we weren't perfect...and those things we could have done better at also slap us in the face from time to time. (You can do your best...but we all make mistakes despite our best efforts and intentions.)
Because we have talked openly with our children all along, and they feel comfortable in sharing everything with us (even sometimes things that make me cringe on the inside as I am trying ot look perfectly calm on the outside), I know when my oldest son did what and when and with whom. (Really all of them, but there's nothing to speak of with the youngers yet...knock wood!) He even shocked the heck out of my husband and me the night he came into our bedroom after a date and announced that he had tried for the first time to french kiss his girlfriend...down to the last embarrassing detail of how she jumped away and then apologized and then said he could try it again. After he walked out, my husband and I looked at each other in shock (although we managed to have a normal discussion with him in his presence) and said, "WHY would he tell us that?!" So anyway, you get the point. I know what happens. I know son number one has splashed a bit in the blue lagoon, shall we say. I don't like it, but he's an adult, and he didn't do it until after high school. And he is not allowed to do anything at all inappropriate in our home. My second son is about to graduate high school and I know he has made a conscious decision not to have sex with his long term girlfriend. So far, so good. I hope, but am not unrealistic about the possibilities and temptations, that he and his girlfriend will continue that mindset in college. (They plan to go together.) My daughter, although not allowed to date until 16 anyway, has a very good attitude about boys and her body and what she intends to allow. (Again, Im also realistic about temptation, so I don't count on her virginity until age 30...but I'd like to prolong it as long as possible.) To make things a little tougher on them in terms of temptation, we have a rule that no opposite sex friends are allowed in our home when we are not there, and we have discussed this idea with our sons girlfriends parents who have agreed to the the same rule.
All of these things, including not having an unamrried nanny having sex in the house, contribute, in the long run, to helping kids "know in their knowers" what is right and what is wrong when those inevitable tough decisions face them. Nothing can totally prevent our kids from experimenting or falling off track in their lives, that's for sure. But having them at least equipped with the knowledge of what a good moral compass looks like is a lot better than not. It's line of defense where otherwise there might be none.
That's my point in all of this. It's not about nanny and what she wants or needs or should or shouldn't be allowed. Ther are kids in the home and I htink it is irresponsible of her even to suggest under the circumstances. Maybe it will not adversely affect OPs three little girls if dumbass boyfriend shags nanny next to the kitchen....but what if it does...even to just one of them? Is it worth the chance? NO!
Well Lindsey and Mom, I'm not even offering the opinion on whether parents SHOULD forbid the nanny from having boyfriemds stay overnight whenever, I'm just saying that as the landlords, they DO have the right to say yes or no to the question. If nanny/tenant doesn't like it, they can move on. And it doesn't seem like rocket science, IF you are seriously considering accepting a live-in job, to ASK about such situations before deciding to move in, just as you would want to review a lease agreement BEFORE signing it. Don't parents oR nannies ever even think of this stuff beforehand?
I don't think letting her boyfriend stay over night is exactly the answer to this . They need to rent a motel room ,but it is not a good idea for this to be going on in front of your children. So if they break up and she moves on to a new boyfriend what do you do then? Dont start what you can't stop.
Why can't your nanny go to her boyfriend's house to spend the night and just return to your house before you leave for work?
I would be squeamish too and I'm not by any means conservative.
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