Received Saturday, November 22, 2008 - Perspective & Opinion
I find myself in a very difficult position. We hired a very sweet nanny about nine weeks ago. She moved in with us and lives in. She quickly immersed herself in the nanny circle and made acquaintances and scheduled play dates. Because she was social so quickly, I thought to ask her if any of her nanny friends knew anyone who would want to work on Thanksgiving dinner, assisting with prep, serving dinner and most importantly cleaning up. The nanny thought about it and returned to me saying that she would do it because she didn't have plans. I asked her if she was certain, she said she was. I asked her what she thought was fair money wise. Mistake number one. The second mistake was perhaps not explaining my needs thoroughly enough. I have a four year old daughter who quickly caught wind of the fact that "D" would be here on Thanksgiving and has been talking non stop about where "D" will sit. In listening to these conversations, it seems that "D" does in fact think she will be sitting and eating with our family. Now, before you jump down my throat, realize that I was not intending to hire "D". "D" volunteered. I have in-laws coming down from Boston and my sister coming up from Georgia and it simply will not work to have the person we hire sitting down and 'enjoying' dinner. I need someone who will serve throughout the meal. How do I resolve this without hurting anyone's feelings? What would be a significant enough hourly rate to off place any hurt feelings I could possibly cause? I just want to reiterate, the nanny is new, very sweet and my daughter loves her. I would really appreciate some words of advice on how to word this so I do not hurt the nanny's feelings. Thank you.
85 comments:
How about:
"I am so thoughtless and rude. I'm so sorry that I didn't make myself clear when I said that I needed you to just serve, and not join, our family dinner. However, to make up for my obnoxiousness, I would like to offer you $30 an hour".
How's that sound?
Or this:
In the spirit of Thanksgiving:
After you've spent all morning cooking, please do not feel that we can lower ourselves to allow your servant self to mingle among us as we are incapable of serving ourselves.
Why not tell "D" to take her own plate in her room so she can have Thanksgiving by herself in front of the tv? That way, you can enjoy your company without any riffraff in your circle and you won't have to worry about what your guests think. Tell her to eat quickly so she can come out and clean your dishes.
I think you're screwed. No amount of money is going to make the live-in nanny feel better about this rejection.
I'm a little surprised that you didn't ask her to join the dinner to begin with. I can only imagine the hurt when she told you she had no plans and even then you didn't bother inviting her. What did you think she was going to do if she didn't work on Thanksgiving? Was she supposed to just be banished to her room, or be barred from the house for the day? No THANKSgiving for that!
I'm pretty sure the comment about letting the person you hired sit down to eat is more about the person you hired to SERVE the dinner sitting than about the person you hired to nanny your child sitting. As in - who will serve the dinner if the server is sitting down to dine?
Like I said, you're screwed. You should, and I mean you REALLY SHOULD find someone else to serve the dinner, and tell the Nanny that you just didn't feel right about her working so hard on her first major holiday with the family, that she should eat and enjoy with everyone else since you are so THANKFUL that your daughter has such a good nanny.
Place an ad on craigslist, or maybe put up a flyer at the local community college (even better if you've got a university locally) or library with the job info. If it's a huge dinner production, sure the nanny can help with prep and clean-up, but the load should be carried by someone else.
I must repeat: NO amount of money will take away the pain of this rejection.
I think you have to let her sit with you. It's wrong not to offer your live in nanny to eat with you anyway. She probably feels like she found people to share her thanksgiving with. Its not right for you to not let her eat dinner with you. Fit her into your table somewhere. And trust me when I tell you, your nanny will quit soon enough if you keep treating her like a servent.
I know you said not to "jump down your throat" but truthfully your post was hard to read. Your nanny said she had no plans for the holiday, and you STILL did not extend an invitation for her to eat w/the family. What difference would one more dinner guest make? Also, it is obvious your daughter wants her to eat w/the family, can't you take your daughter's feelings into account here beside your own?
This person cares for your child when you cannot and she obviously takes good care of her as well. Have you read any of the "horror stories" on here from time to time? Be thankful and show some gratitude. And you cannot even share your turkey with her? If she has no plans, then obviously she will spend the day alone. Dosen't that bother you at all?
You seem very selfish and for your sake I hope your nanny dosen't go on this website...If I did, I would walk out as soon as I could no matter what the pay was.
For the record, I usually do not write such blunt responses, but yours was over the top. What kind of person are you to act in such a manner over the holidays? I can't imagine what your example is teaching your child.
Okay...I will stop now. Maybe I should write a separate rant. :)
There is nothing you can do. Say Nanny I want you to enjoy thanksgiving with us so I want to hire someone else to cook and clean up.
In our family EVERYONE pitches in to help set up and clean up after and there are usually 50 of us sitting down to a holiday dinner. You could do the same, it would save you money and save you from hurting your nannies feelings.
If your family lives close by then you can do what we do. Make a list of everything you want for thanksgiving dinner and then ask people to bring something on the list....it's worked for us rednecks for 30 years now.
OP:
Focusing on the issue at hand, I understand that your nanny offered to help you on thanksgiving day. However, her offering to help you also propably came with the mindset that she would also eat with you and your family. You need to let her do so. She doesn't have plans. Also, it would be a great opportunity for her to meet your family and to migle with her on a more social basis. She lives in your home, your little girl loves her. You really need to let her eat with you. It's one more chair at your table. I think you seemed a little cold and rude when you said she wouldn't fit into your plan to sit with you guys. It's just not right. I would be hurt if my family did this to me. And no amount of money an hour could make up for it. Just my opinion.
T.C- you should start another rant. Lets go wit:
Should Nannies share holiday with the family in their care? Yes or No?
How did the OP give birth to a wise and caring daughter? Perhaps she should take lessons from this child.
Also, OP. If you decide to take all of our advice and let her sit with you, make sure you make her feel like you want her to and make her feel welcomed. She will get a akward feeling if you let her sit with you only because you feel like you have to and not because you actually want her at your table. No worries, we won't tell anyone that you really wont want her at your table.
Ugh. I keep commenting on this one, but this one got to me. OP sounded so cold in her post. Soon enough at this rate, the "Servent" will quit. And rightfully so.
Oh this is really easy.
Tell her that you really value her as a part of your family and that you think it would be better if she sat down with you on Thanksgiving as apposed to working.
You can't have her sit down while she works. That would make things to hard for everyone.
The purpose of help would be to serve things, clear plates, get stuff blah blah blah.She can't do that AND eat at the same time.
Tell her that you think it's more appropriate for her to join in as apposed to work and that if it would be OK with her if you got some other help.
Let me put this into perspective for you, OP.
My husband just fell victim to the economy yesterday and lost a job he was very successful at. I am a SAHM and I am disabled. I cannot work. There will be no Thanksgiving or Christmas for us now. We will probably lose our home. Neither one of us has family to go to for support or help. We are on our own.
Now, let me ask you... would it be too much for you to ask the woman that your daughter adores so much, that even YOU say is really sweet, to sit down with your family at Thanksgiving... and count your blessings together?
When you say serve, what do you mean? In our family we bring the food, put it on the table, sit down to say grace, then eat. Are you expecting someone to plate the food and bring it to each person? Can't you put the bottle of wine on the table and allow each person to refill their own glass when they choose? Or better yet, as the hostess, YOU keep an eye on the wine glasses and graciously pick up the bottle and ask, "Mom, would you like a little more wine?" I think that would mean more to them then having someone else do it.
I don't get the serving part. Technically, your nanny could help with the food prep, sit down and have dinner with all of you, and then clear the table and join you all for coffee and dessert. Then she can do the heavy-duty cleaning up the next day--all paid for, of course.
Or you could do what others suggested and tell her it's more important to you that she join the family for dinner and you just don't think you can bear the thought of her working instead of relaxing and sharing the day with your daughter.
If it's THAT much of a project, you need to hire a catering staff who has experience and the means to "serve" the family. Otherwise, like I said, you technically can make it work.
And why were you just finding out that she had no plans for the holiday when you were looking for help? I find it hard to believe that you wouldn't have at least asked in the course of every day conversation and out of kindness what her plans were for the holiday, especially if you know that she has no family in the area.
I see you having three options.
1. Go ahead and pay your nanny to help, especially if she feels she needs/wants the money. Structure the dinner so that she CAN sit and enjoy the meal and dessert with the rest of you. You can easily do that w/out asking the rest of your guests to lift a finger (which is what I think you are shooting for).
2. Hire someone else, or a small staff, depending on your expectations, and make it clear to the nanny that you are doing so because you want her to join your family.
3. Stick with your current plan and not only hurt your nanny deeply, but ruin your daughter's entire day. I can see your daughter being crushed by having Nanny there but watching her work w/out the chance to sit down and join the family. To me, that's what T'giving is really about. If you stick with this option, as someone who has been in fine dining for many years, I'd say $300 would be appropriate. I can plan on making $200 in 4 hours on a holiday and that's as a server—I'm not expected to assist with prep or do the dishes.
Let us know what you choose, and best of luck with your decision.
You make my heart hear with your snot-nosed behavior. Apparently you tout classism. Please don't teach your daughter this. On a side note-- I am a LOVE OUT nanny who has been invited to thanksgiving, and yes they are VERY wealthy.
Think about your choice-- please and how that choice can become a butterfly effect. Especially for your impressionable daugter.
Lastly, I think your nanny was offering out of kindness-- NOT to make money. So think about that as well.
Finally, an idea-- Let her sit with your daughter,who is probably better company anyhow, at the kids table.
NANNIES ARE NOT SECOND CLASS CIIIZENS. DAMMIT. THE MORE I THINK ABOUT IT THE MORE PISSED I GET. MY HEART ACHES FOR YOU; YOUR PRECIOUS DAUGHTER AND YOUR NANNY :**(
Happy Holidays snob, may God bless you with empathy.
NJ Nanny I just think it's sad that she doesn't want the nanny to join them. Thanksgiving is for giving thanks for what we have, it's for having a meal with the people that are closest to you, it's not a time to be snobby and not include someone who is essentially a part of your family.
This thanksgiving I am thankful I work for a wonderful lady who would never think of not including me in a holiday if I didn't have anywhere to go, I'm thankful to work for a lady that treats me as an equal and not just the hired help.
TC- I totally agree. I work for an amazing family and can't imagine being with another right now. My family treats me with love, kindness and respect. I am a live out nanny and still get invited to holidays. I spend every Christmas eve with them! And go over on Christmas morning to share in the joy when the children open their gifts. In return for the way they treat me, I love the entire family with my whole heart and even sometimes take the children on outings on my day off. I am thankful for having them in my life. They are truly a blessing.
I agree with lovesthegirls. OP is a snob.
I think you need to suck it up and deal with the fact that you have invited, albeit inadvertently, your nanny to share Thanksgiving with your family. If your issue really is that you want someone to WORK the meal, then this is easily resolved. Say to your nanny, "I've thought about Thanksgiving, and it isn't fair to have you both working and enjoying the meal with us. I'm going to hire someone who can just be helping out in the kitchen & cleaning up while we eat. You should just join us at dinner and help out with the children. They are very excited that you'll be joining us."
You didn't think this through and now you have to pay for it. You're entitled to your snobishness, but for the sake of your family I think you need to rise above it right now.
Because of this misunderstanding, you now have to just have her for dinner and hire someone new if you do not want any hurt feelings. If she thinks she is included and finds out she is not, she will be VERY hurt no matter what compensation you offer her. She'll be hurt if you offer her a million.
Like others said to..I don't understand why OP can't do the serving. You fill everyones plate and glass, you sit down and eat. Anyone who wants seconds, just has to speak up and pass the food down the table. Its not rocket science.
OP-
Nannies aren't servants! What the hell? WHy would you even ask her to do this in the first place? I would be shocked and offended if my bosses asked if I could serve their Thanksgiving dinner.
As for your predicament if she's from out of town you should try and redeem yourself by buying her a plane ticket so she can fly home and spend time with her family.
I feel like we're being a bit too hard on the OP, or at least too hard on her for the wrong reasons. It's not bad for the OP to want to pay someone to help her. There aren't rules about how Thanksgiving dinner has to go down, and if you have the money to pay for help, go for it.
If it will damage your social cred with your relatives to have nanny actually join you all for a holiday meal, maybe you could simply suggest to her that you would not want to have her working on a holiday, and then ask her where she plans to go to be out of the way. Then, if she has nowhere to go, you can offer up the names of some fabulous shelters that will be serving a meal to those unfortunate enough to have no home and family to go to for thanksgiving.
Or you could do the kind and human thing, and say, "Oh nanny, I wouldn't feel comfortable having you do all the work on Thanksgiving! I want you to join us for dinner, and I will gladly pay you to help out with my child and her cousins, instead of paying to have you grub in the kitchen."
Then hire a server from a favorite restaurant or a catering company employee, so that the "service" will meet your and your family's expectations.
That way nanny makes a little extra $, you have a "professional" doing your dirty work, and you get to compare servant horror stories with your relations while nanny plays in another room with the kids.
Original Justsaying, the OP DIDN'T ask the nanny to do the serving, she asked if she knew someone who could.
We all need to actually read posts, people!
Abbey-
I read it correctly the first time. The OP should have never asked this of her nanny even if the nanny offered.
Excellent post, chick! I was thinking the same thing. OP doesn't want to ruin her social cred by having her lowly nanny sit at the table with everybody. How damn sad.
OP sounds like a snob in denial...I honestly do believe she feels bad that she hurt nanny's feelings...I just doubt she's capable of looking at her HELP as anything but..
Her concern for the nanny's hurt feelings are all relative to what she knows and how she perceives life in general. To most of us, this is borderline appalling (not to sound dramatic) and our hearts are breaking a little bit for this nanny and the situation she got herself in...For someone like the OP though, it's almost impossible to empathize with the nanny...so I don't doubt that OP feels bad, on the surface, for hurting her help's feelings, but I don't think it will ever affect her the way it is affecting the rest of us.
OP, I understand your nanny offered to help, but, like others said, I have a feeling she also viewed this as an invitation to join you and your very important, upper-crust family for dinner. As much as it pains you, you're going to have to pretend to be gracious and caring and allow your peasant to dine in style with the rest of the very elite.
After reading all of the these comments. I want OP to comeback and let us know what she has decided to do.
Dayum, jersey! I like your post. Clear and concise and straight for the throat!
NJ NANNY
That would be great, but I don't think OP will have the nerve after getting jumped on so badly.
NY Nanny..hahahahaha.
I think my first post was pretty mild mannered, but then as I kept posting, I was getting more and more upset at what OP wrote and how she is treating her nanny in this situation. I think I commented more times on this post than I did over the course of a couple months on anything.
Not a Park Slope Nanny..
You are probably right. It would've been interesting though.
NJ NANNY
I know, right? Stick around, though. I like your comments!
This is a post for WTF
I just reread the post and I really feel people are twisting her words or intentions.
OK for one, it is so rude that you didn't invite nanny to TG dinner.I guess I would like to know how that decision was made. Did you intend for her to join if she wasn't offering her services? But because she wanted to work and you wanted solid serving help you couldn't go both ways? I'm just trying to make sense of it.
I would like to say that not everyone has the handson kind of family who jumps in. Some people have the lazy or snobby kind who doesn't grasp gratefulness and tact and assisting.
Some people, who I know, enjoy hosting dinners and parties and because they would rather find joy and relaxation in sitting down and not being bothered by the food or wine temp, if the plates are set up and cleaning; they just get help. It provides an income, it is a job or extra cash for some and completely appropriate if it is your style. I have helped out many times at occasions like this. Some people have their food catered because they don't cook.some people aren't into Thanksgiving prep and they just want to eat.
Listen I'm not saying what she did was right by any means but let's not call someone a snob for getting help on Thanksgiving. Or because she doesn't want the help for that day to sit down. That defeats the purpose of getting help.
We are a small family and we are able to do things ourselves but when we get older, have a bigger space such as a large kitchen and diningroom we will very likely, on occassion, make use of servers.
I am giving you the benefit of the doubt:
That if another person helped that your nanny would of had been offered a seat at the table. Please prove me right.
I do suggest you give nanny a choice though. If she really wants to work for a serving fee then make sure she knows you'll need someone on full service and that would mean she won't be able to eat with you. And that you would rather have her join as a guest if she was interested, as you would like for her to be apart of your wonderful day. And say to your 4 year old that nanny already ate and doesn't want to sit down but will do something special with her later to make up for it. Such as a baking activity or such- if that is what nanny chooses.
Simple. You ask her to help you cook dinner and then you put it on the table and let your family serve their damn selves. You then let your live-in nanny( who should be treated like one of the family) sit down and eat a nice thanksgiving dinner. Get over yourself.
OP is an a-hole with more money than class.
And you should take that 'thanksgiving pickle' out of your butt.
Sounds like your daughter is more compassionate than you. I guess it takes a child to understand that we are all created equal.
Why do you need someone to serve dinner anyway. I have had some very large holiday dinners and no one has ever served us. Everyone helps cook some dishes and dinner is on the table for every to pass to each other. I am getting form your post that this is a family dinner not a formal event for coworkers or the boss.
Relax and try taking care of yourself for the day. Let the nanny sit with the family. Maybe she can have an entertaining or intelligent conversation with your family. Have her sit next to your daughter to help her at the table. I am sure the nanny will respect your family time and head off to her part of the house when appropriate.
But if you insist on hurting her feelings and making a servant out of her you should call a local catering company and find out what they pay their serving staff for a large party, then pay her that.
If the nanny is from out of state which it sounds like. She's not going to know alot of people in the area. Or have family to have dinner with. Sad thats she will not be included. Especially, since she live in your house. And I am sure during the interview you used the phrase: "we want you to be part of our family"
Perfect solution: Surprise with a last minute plane ticket to spend time with her family. For three days. If its really that terrible for you to have her around. That can be another way to get her out of the house.
I'm sorry OP but I agree with everyone else. It does seem that you meant for help with preparing etc. and since your nanny had no plans she offered to help you.
I honestly cannot understand why you need someone to "serve" for thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is about giving thanks for all we have and to have someone serving you kind of miscues that message.
Now really I don't think any amount of money you pay an hour would make her feel less hurt. So, as I see if you have two options.
1. Let her know that you actually need someone to serve, hire someone else and still invited her to dinner.
2. Put the food on the table like most people do, have her help with the preparing and still let her sit with you.
Since the nanny does not have plans and is live in and is not going home, it really makes no sense to me why you would not have invited her in the first place. Obviously your post hit a nerve with a lot of people and I agree. You cannot possibly have someone "enjoying" their meal.
Honesty I cannot think of anyone (if your nanny didn't offer) who would want to serve people on thanksgiving and then eat dinner all by themselves. That is just sad. So really I cannot understand why you would think the nanny would think any differently.
If I were you I would be thankful I have such a great and helpful nanny, a daughter who loves her nanny and family coming into town. The nanny should be able to sit and eat with you and can probably help with preparing as well.
Lisa
This isn't an Ad. Someone actually wanted our advice here. (Although, I don't know why.)
I usually try to be non-judgemental, but asking how much money will spare your nanny's hurt feelings is a bit much for me. Um, no amount of money can heal hurt feelings, the only way out of this is to suck it in, and accept the fact that your nanny will sit down at the table with you. I suspect that your in-laws and your sister might raise eyebrows about this, so you need to put on your freshest smile to breezily explain it to them. As for hiring help, I do not think it should be too difficult. You could try the caterers in your neighborhood for a start.
I know a lot of people have suggested a caterer, but I think it is way too close to the holiday for OP to actually get one. This may be why she asked her nanny if she knew anybody that wanted the job. (Or, she could've wanted to do it that way to keep costs down, as catering isn't cheap, especially on a holiday).
I don't fault the nanny for wanting to hire help, heck if we could afford it we would too but I do fault her in her choice of words, her expectations and how she treats other people.
Again I reiterate we always have 50 people over for our thanksgiving supper and we make do without any outside help.
This is how it works in our family.
About 2 weeks before hand my grandmother has the master list of all the food and she calls everyone to see who is coming and what they plan on bringing. If it's a relative that lives out of town then they bring something that doesn't need to much attention, like the bread, or a salad...something they can pick up on the way to the house.
Then around 11ish everyone starts showing up with the food they made, and the first people there help get the house ready as in bringing chairs from downstairs, pulling out the tables and setting them up in the living rooms, putting table cloths on the tables and setting food out.
Then we all eat and it's set up buffet style. You get in line and get your food and find a place to sit down.
When it's all over EVERYONE pitches in, there have been a few times in the past when someone thought they were too good to help clean up but a little comment like HEY! ____ help me with the table always did the trick.
Then we all say our goodbyes and we head off to our own homes.
Hell half the time we invite people that aren't related to us but need a place to come to for dinner. This year an ex boyfriend of mine is coming to dinner because all of his family moved away.
To bad y'all don't live down here, I would invite the nanny to our house, at least here she would be welcome.
Good God people, why so quick to jump all over the OP? She never intended to invite her nanny to a FAMILY dinner, nor should she be expected to. She also never intended to ask the nanny to work on what is most likely a paid holiday. Employers do not have to look out for and parent their nannies - even the live in ones. I have been a live in nanny and never expected to be invited or included in family events or holidays. I have also been a live out nanny and have worked on family events and holidays and was very clear what my role was: Employee. It is the OP's own business how she wants to conduct her holiday. I served Thanksgiving one year for a long term family of mine. It was the third year of my four year tenure with them. I did not sit with the family at the table. I never expected to. The children didn't suffer, I was not hurt, I WAS WORKING.
Now, please don't bash me, but as a professional nanny I actually feel bad for the situation the OP is in. Her Nanny offered herself up to work on her day off and then her child and the nanny made certain assumptions. The OP feels guilty because her nanny, who she obviously likes very much, has made it clear that she has no plans and that the OP is now somehow responsible for taking care of her. She is an employee, not another child. She was given the day off and not invited. As an adult, the message should have been clear. I actually think that it is the OP being taken advantage of.
So, with that said, OP, if I were you, I would take the Nanny aside and tell her that you feel horrible that you may have been misunderstood, but you want to be very clear that you need someone to WORK HARD on Thanksgiving, and that if she really wants to do it, here is the schedule and what the day will require...and the salary will be x amount. Then go and get her a really nice gift as a bonus for provding you with an extra day of work.
You mentioned that this is a new nanny. Set your personal boundries now. You don't want a tag along on ever family event and holidays just because she has no plans. Again, not your responsibility.
One last comment: I adore beyond words the family that I work with. I am beyond loyal to them and they treat me like gold. Our wonderful friendship is the icing on the cake. But that does not change the fact that I am their employee, not their daughter, their sister of the children's aunt...or their servant. I am their employee.
Sydney-
Thank you for your point of view. It was well wrote and very eye opening. It made me more sympathetic to the OP.
I found myself wanting to defend the OP as I read the first forty four comments, and only when I got to Sydney's did I find someone who seemed to see things my way. No, the nanny isn't a servant, but she IS an employee, NOT a member of the family. Etiquette doesn't demand that you invite employees to family dinners. If a family wants to have an intimate family dinner, I see no reason to criticize that.
Now, on the other hand, I do believe there's much to be said for the value of compassion. It would be a lovely and kind gesture if the OP decided to invite the nanny to Thanksgiving dinner. But the absence of that lovely and kind gesture isn't inherently evil nor heartless. If OP isn't looking to have a "like a member of the family" relationship with nanny, then I think it would be fine for her to not invite nanny to dinner. That said, it's too late now because of the miscommunication. When you ask your live-in to help with dinner without being VERY clear about the job, it's just sort of implicit that she'll be both helping serve and clean, and also able to sit for the meal. OP, I think you just have to suck it up and deal with it, because a non-invite is one thing, but an UN-invite is rude.
I', guessing the OP is intending a more formal dinner service. In college, I used to work for a cater waiter service. I worked in private homes serving dinner parties or holiday meals.
Rather than guests passing food, I would bring out the courses seperately,serve and clear plates, as well as different wine courses, and finally dessert and liquers. If that is the kind of dinner service OP is expecting, then she is right, it would be awkward for someone to serve. They'd finish one course, and have a couple minutes to eat before the next course and have to jump up every time someone needed anything.
I worked in lots of homes where people were used to having tons of 'help' around, and just didn't think to do things for themselves. I'm guessing that's the OP's situation. I think she's just not used to thinking of employees as members of the family.
But IMO, a live in nanny should be invited to all holiday celebrations if she doesn't have prior plans.
I believe you are a person who does not see her nanny as "part of the family". I don't know why you would even worry about her feelings if you didn't ask her to join you for the holiday after you found out she has no plans anyway.
If you really value her a lot of other people here gave you great suggestions, if not tell her she would just be at dinner to serve your guests and would be on call throughout the whole meal and dessert.
I don't know why your family wouldn't be appalled at by the fact you asked your nanny to serve them during the holiday. I know I would be. It's very tacky.
OK, FIRST OF ALL, how could you not INSIST on your nanny sitting down to Thanksgiving?
Please OP, explain to me why your family needs someone to serve them during the meel. I don't get it. Isn't the food already out?
I hope I never work for anyone like this. I do not wish to assosciate myself with these kind of people.
Sydney,
Unlike others, I did NOT find your post to be so great. It was really just cold-hearted.
"She is an employee, not another child. She was given the day off and not invited. As an adult, the message should have been clear."
Brrr! That's icy cold. You do realize what Thanksgiving is about don't you?
No one needs a definition of the employee-employer relationship. We all know that a nanny is not technically in the family and blah, blah, blah.
Nor do we need to hear how much you don't care. That's you. Some people are more sensitive.
The fact is, we are talking about what is the right, normal, decent, kind thing to do.
Maybe you should have a job writing employee contracts for human resources at a large, impersnal corporation.
Kate and Sydney
Thank you for a refreshingly different point of view. I don't agree 100%, but you make a really good argument that has also made me sympathize just a little with the OP.
Anonymous said...
i don't think the OP is a monster. i probably wouldn't have our nanny at all of our family functions either. good luck, OP. I do agree with the nanny though; you need to set your boundaries and expectations NOW.
6:37 PM
RE-POST FOR ANONYMOUS
YOU NEED A MONIKER!
I don't give a rats ass if OP wants to hire servants to lick her guests' plates. She can hire whoever she wants to do whatever. But if she is so snobby that she would rather hurt her nanny's feelings then allow her at the table because of what sister-in-law Mrs Howell is going to think, then she is a dink.
Daisy,
I am REALLY sorry that you feel my post was in any way offensive. It was not my intention to come off as cold, because I am in no way like that. It's just really important to me to be very professional in this industry because the boundries can be blurred so easily when you work with a family. I always remind myself that I am there for the family, not the other way around.
I love this site because so many different views can be shared. But I do wish that people would keep the meaness out of it. I was merely trying to "Stick to the facts". I did not mean to sound cruel or cold.
Thanksgiving means a lot to me. But I would never expect to spend it with the boss!
OP, I am sure you are not as bad as this post makes you sound. We all say and do things we wish we hadn't.
Now that you have gotten some sound advice, I do hope you take it. Nanny has no where to go and no plans for Thanksgiving, it is cold if you don't invite her. Imagine having to spend the holiday alone?
I really do hope you invite nanny to TG Dinner. Not because you were shamed into it, but because you simply weren't thinking when you posted and now you are.
If you really feel you can't have her at your table, ( I hope this is not the case and it just came out wrong) kindly make a reservation for her at a nice resturant then give a gift certificate so she may at least enjoy a gourmet meal without working.
Have a wonderful Thanksgiving, OP. And do let us know what you decided.
Sydney I appreciate your pov. I don't agree with it but it's nice to have another point of view.
I understand your reasoning behind keeping those lines clearly drawn, that's something that needs to be done or will cause major problems in the future (been there done that) BUT this is thanksgiving, this isn't a get together just because. This is a time to spend with friends and family and this late in the game I don't see why the nanny shouldn't be included. Even if she wasn't supposed to be serving the food where was she supposed to go for thanksgiving? How awkward and disheartening would it be to be sitting in your room while everyone else is enjoying a thanksgiving meal?
OP needs to show some compassion and allow the nanny to join her family for dinner and if she doesn't want this to happen again at Christmas she needs to come up with a game plan well in advance.
Op...we would all love to hear from you again! Have you taken any of our advice...or are we all beneath you as well?
TC -
I agree with you. Thank you for your prespective as well!
Wow OP, C U Next Tuesday. (Or Thursday, as the case may be.)
Now, if you have always been acustomed to spending Thanksgiving dinner sitting with your hands folded quietly in your lap waiting for someone to deposit food in front of you, spoon it up to your mouth for you if necessary, and make themselves otherwise invisible, then why don't you just do what you've always done and hire a chef and a catering staff? Are you just now experiencing the rude shock that children cost money, so you can no longer afford that approach, and that is why you are too concerned about the cost of feeding your nanny a plate of food on Thanksgiving?
As people have stated, it's simple. Pay your nanny to help you prepare the food and carry it to the table. Assuming your guests are all physically capable of lifting a serving spoon from a platter and successfully depositing the food onto their own plate, they can then feed it to themselves. You and your nanny can then clear everyone's plates and bring out the desserts. Again, capable adults should somehow manage to cut themselves a piece of pie without too much trouble, if the hostess has decided it is beneath her to assist them.
Maybe you should scrap your whole plan and spend the day helping to serve at a homeless shelter, to give you some idea of what you actually should be thankful for. You SHOULD be thankful that you have a sweet helpful nanny who has bonded with your daughter and who seems to enjoy YOUR company enough that she isn't repulsed at the thought of having to spend a couple of hours sharing a meal with you. Of course, if she knew how disgusted YOU were at having to actually share space with HER, she'd probably quit and your daughter would be devastated. But at least you wouldn't have to let her soil one of your dining room chairs.
I have also worked Thanksgiving dinners for past families and their friends, including preparing the food and dishing up plates or setting it out to eat buffet style. Clean up as well. I did it because I love to cook and love the people I work for..I was paid,,,not a huge amount mind you but I was paid. I also ate with them. I am so lucky that I have worked for such nice families that there was never a question that if I didnt have somewhere to go on a holiday I was more than welcome at their home. I have been a nanny for 11 yrs and this has always been the case. Thank god. If I ever was to work for a family who would be offended to have me sit at a dinner with them I would not be working there long. Thats just me.
"it simply will not work to have the person we hire sitting down and 'enjoying' dinner."
Wow, that is icky.
Who "serves" Thanksgiving dinner? I thought the whole point was to enjoy it all together? If I were your nanny I'd assume you needed help getting things together and keeping dinner running smoothly- but NO Thanksgiving I have ever heard of would require someone to wait on everyone! That's absurd!
First of all i think you should be praying that your nanny doesn't read your post. If she does she'll leave soon enough....
I can't believe that you won't invite her to join you for Thanksgiving. I started working for a family 3 weeks before Thankgiving and as my family were in another country i'd have been spending the day alone, this was fine with me as i'm English and don't celebrate it anyway. The lovely family insisted that i join them and i had the most amazing day...everyone pitched in and did something and we had a wonderful day.
I can't believe that you won't invite her join you on Thanksgiving.
You know what you have to do...treat her with kindness and respect.
Cali mom, I hope you will not go the way of other regulars and disappear any time soon. We need you!
You are unbelievable. I hope she quits Thanksgiving morning and leaves you high and dry.
My two cents
I 2nd that!! And I hope Mom and a few others (you know who you are) stick around, too!
If you envision a formal meal service, you need an experienced server. You can probably get someone from a catering service, or call your favorite restaurant if it is closed TG, and see if one of their waiters is interested. Nanny can do the cooking, and eat in the kitchen, then clean up.
Otherwise, unless Charles and Camilla show up, you can have a real family Thanksgiving. Let your daughter make place cards, You carry the turkey proudly into the table, midst ohs and ahs. Dad shows off his carving. You go around the table and each takes a turn saying what they are thankful for. Father in law pours the wine. Pass the serving plates around, nanny helps your daughter, everyone eats too much. All the women hop up and clear, then serve dessert. Lots of chatter and laughter, and a little too much wine.
Which do you think your daughter will enjoy and remember?
OP I agree with all the people who said you need to hire someone else, and let her sit with you.
And I agree... think of what your daughter will remember the most? Being served by her nanny, and seeing her nanny being banished from joining her, or having her nanny right there with her?
Kids are impressionable, and easily hurt. If you could care less about the feelings of the nanny, I encourage you to think of your daughter.
As far as the money.... I would say whatever you pay her in weekly salary, thats what you pay her per hour. That might just be enough, for her to feel that she has the money to get out of there, and find a place where she really is PART OF THE FAMILY.
For God sake OP.... this woman is there to love your child, kiss her boo boos, pick her up, play with her, etc, etc, etc all when you are not there. And when you look down your pointed nose at her, she smiles politely and does it all again, all with out thank you, all because she loves children.
Oh and side note... I too hope your nanny doesnt read this... or that someone she knows reads this.... because I honestly think, that you will be without a nanny faster than that swinging door in your kitchen can shut in your face.
Happy TG op and do tell us how it goes... we all are dying to know.
my two cents, I don't plan on it. :)
Manhattan Nanny, you totally hit the nail on the head. I can't imagine approaching Thanksgiving as if it is just an occasion to show off your best china and crystal to your most snobbish in-laws, necessitating a leper to wait hand and foot on all the "real" people. It's about giving thanks for all we have, sharing the hospitality with those who may need some, and enjoying the company of people who are close to us. Maybe OP is just insanely jealous of the bond that nanny has formed with her daughter.
You know, some people don't necessarily do the big-family-warm-fuzzy-feeling-everyone-helping sort of scene. Our family has always treated Thanksgiving as just a very fancy dinner with friends and/or family, centered around a turkey (more or less), hosted at one of our homes. It's formal and quite stuffy and yes, we happen to prefer it this way. It's our tradition. Just like on Christmas Eve, we either host or attend another very formal dinner that we feel is very important socially; and no we don't discuss Santa or the Baby Jesus while Bing Crosby croons in the background.
Some of you need to recognize that people do things differently and Thanksgiving for everyone isn't necessarily a Hallmark Card.
I agree with Mrs. W - where are all of the Nannies that work for the upper class families on here? They should understand the importance of formal dinners where it would NOT work to have someone serving and tending to the guests and trying to sit and eat at the same time.
I would imagine the OP is not going to post again for fear of getting attacked again. People were more judgemental of the way her family celebrates Thanksgiving instead of focusing on the problem and offering sound advice.
I for one do not understand how the nanny could not have picked up on the fact that you are a snob already.
Nanny is obviously deperate for some one to spend the holidays with and since you offfered she grabbed at it.
I am sorry for your daughter. Thanksgiving is a time of sharing and loving together with peace. You dont seem to have any of this. I believe that is why your daughter loves this nanny.
I don't have time right now to read all the previous comments, but her eis what I owuld do:
You don't want nanny to feel at all awkward or to ever know there was a mixup and that she has invited herself to eat with you. So you must now act like you are paying her to help you prepare the dinner (so have her help you make everything, set up, and clean up), but that you intended all along for her to actually join you. Then have her join you fo rth emeal and treat her like an invited guest, or a member of the family. If your in-laws must act snobby, pull them aside and tell them quietly that they may not act like stuck up snobs in your home, for the sake of your child, but that they are welcome to gossip about you all the way home, in the privacy of their car, if they wish instead.
Love the regulars and my two cents...thank you.
I love this site...I'm just a bit busy these days so my "attendance" has been sporradic.
As we did our tree last night (I know...exceedingly early...but for a good reason...my son was home from college this weekend and would have otherwise missed out on our family tree decorating tradition)I saw all of the kids' Harry Potter ornaments emerge, and I started thinking about Umass. Has anybody heard from her yet?
At the risk of haivng people jump down my throat, I'd like to point out how I read the OPs post differently.
The OP said, "it simply will not work to have the person we hire sitting down and 'enjoying' dinner. I need someone who will serve throughout the meal."
I do NOT think she meant to imply that one's status as "hired help" would preclude them from sitting down at the dinner table. Rather, I think the OP meant that the person hired to help prepare and serve this meal would be busy with those tasks while the others eat.
I don't think that's unreasonable. As a caterer, it wouldn't ever cross my mind to sit down to eat with the people hiring me to put on the dinner - Thanksgiving or otherwise.
We have no way of knowing whether the nanny would have been excluded from the dinner table had the situation merely been one of the live-in nanny not having any other place to spend Thanksgiving dinner.
Each family has its own traditions. Some do Thanksgiving as a buffet, some do it as a sit and pass, others do it more formally, with food being plated in the kitchen and brought to people at the table and some just go out. Who are we to judge how others may do it? Apparently this family does things more formally - more along the lines of a catered dinner.
I do appreciate this site very much, but I sometimes find that people are way too quick to jump to conclusions that people are being classist or racist.
As a child I remember getting dressed up and going to my aunt & uncles house every Thanksgiving. We were dirt poor and they were very wealthy. It was stuffy and formal and children were seen and not heard.
My brothers and sisters& I would have fun crawling underneath the two huge clothed tables where the desserts rested in the kitchen.The cooks were forever shooing us out! There was a childrens table for anyone under 15 and an adult table for everyone else. Dinner was served to you as was your drink.
I remember how my mother used to appear slightly out of place with her last years blouse and tattered shoes but my aunt & uncles family was loving never the less towards all of us.
We spent christmas in our own home. A cooked ham and a few potatoes and other yummies.We all ate at the same time and all served ourselves. Us kids argued over who had to peel the potatoes and who had to peel the HB eggs for the potatoe salad. Some sat on the floor,some on the coffee table ,some on the couch..but we were all scattered around the living room as we ate.One big happy,poor family.. Some still in jammies,some in our lazy sunday at home clothes.
Both holidays were enjoyable although drastically different. I have fond memories of both.
Just because some families celebrate formally does not mean they are snobs or rich and spoiled or bad people.Nor does it mean they don't know the meaning of Thanksgiving.My Aunt & uncle were two of the finest and most caring & greatful people I have ever known.They simply surrounded themselves with Proffessors and teachers and a different class of people than my own parents did.
Someone above made a good point..not all families celebrate the same way.For those of you judging..get over yourselves!!!
So, if Nanny comes and helps out and dines at the table, just like a member of the family, does she still get paid? Guests and family members generally aren't paid for helping out with cooking, cleaning, or time spent in eating their Thanksgiving meal.
Candella,
You do make an excellent point. And, thinking about it, I might feel a little hacked at having to pay one of my Thanksgiving guests.
Still, I think the most important thing here...in keeping with the true meaning of Thanksgiving...not to mention NOT hurting a person's feelings...is to include the nanny in the dinner as if she had been always and naturally expected to attend.
How about this as a compromise. OP, say something to your nanny like, "Nanny, I have been thinking about this and I really had intended for you to be a guest at our dinner and not have to work on Thanksgiving, but rather just enjoy yourself and be a part of the family. Still, my in-laws have come to expect a very formal Thanksgiving, complete with being waited on. That means I do need a waitress for the event...throughout the entire meal...and being the waitress would obviously make it impossible for you to join us for the meal...and we and *child's name* would be so disappointed if you don't eat with us. Do you think you have an acquaintance who we might hire to do the work part instead? If you really prefer to work instead of join us for the meal, I will understand, but I need to know pretty quickly so we can get somebody hired if that's the case."
That way, she knows she is first invited as a guest, and that she has the option to choose to work INSTEAD if she truly prefers the cash....and that it is not possible for her to do both.
And, as somebody else said above...if this is your usual Thanksgiving custom, don't you have access to professionals for this job? Maybe a caterer who could cook, serve and clean? That way you will get good food and professional service as well. One of your nanny's nanny friends may not know the serving etiquette and your in-laws may be put out anyway. And if they treat one of your nanny's friends poorly, and you do not put an immediate and public stop to it (how embarrassing to have to do to your in laws) it is not going to be good for your future relationship with your nanny.
OP, if you hadn't waited so long to hire someone, you wouldn't be in this situation. Poor planning on your part. You should have hired a proper caterer/waitress MONTHS ago.
Someone asked about those of us who work for the upper class, and I have to say as someone who's most exclusively worked for the upper class in her career, I've always been invited as a guest even knowing I have other plans. I've never been treated as a server.
As for those who say nannies are not servants, yes we are. I'm not sure why this distinction bothers people. I love to make my charges and their parents happy and that means serving.
I also agree that OPs comment could have been taken out of context and could have meant that she didn't her nanny could do both, serve and sit with them. I'm also not sure what's the issue is with people wanting a server. Why is that anyone's business to judge this woman or any family who are happy to pay double time for a server on a holiday?
Theresa B is right. OP should have had it figured out weeks ago. It's not uncommon to hire someone to do cleaning and serving during these dinners, but waiting until a week prior is ill concieved.
Kate:
No, etiquette does not demand inviting the nanny to dinner.
It does, however, demand not rubbing her nose in the fact that she is not invited.
As such, the breach of etiquette came when the OP asked her nanny if she knew anyone who would like to serve dinner for the OPs family.
This situation is of the OPs creating. If One discusses One's social plans with One's acquaintances, regardless of whether they are employees, One runs the risk of having said acquaintance assume they are included, and absolutely sends the message that One does not care if said acquaintance is hurt by being excluded.
OP, next time you hire a nanny, make sure they are Jehovahs Witness. They do not celebrate any holidays, and I am sure they would be very grateful and thankful to be your family's personal servant for whatever holiday you need her!
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