Update:
Kid Dumping
An 11-year-old Florida boy was abandoned at a Nebraska hospital Wednesday, the 31st child abandoned since Nebraska’s “safe haven” law took effect in July. It was intended to protect unwanted newborns from being left in dumpsters, like safe haven laws in 49 other states, but unlike the others, Nebraska’s law doesn’t set any age limit.
The Legislature opens a special session Friday to fix the law. Most legislators have already agreed to add an age limit of 3 days.
What are your thoughts on closing the "loophole" to this Law? Will older children face certain abuse or neglect by these Parents now that they can't leave them anymore?
Link to previous Discussion: "Is Nebraska becoming new dumping ground for unwanted children?" on 10/14.
43 comments:
That's a scary thought: taking away the one safe place a stressed-out parent could leave a child? It turns my stomach because if mom or dad could just dump them off and be done with it, they most certainly have the propensity to harm their child, especially now if they feel they have no way out. They will take their anger and frustration out on the child.
I think they should leave the law alone!
They need a safe haven law for women. So their husbands and boyfriends stop killing them.
and what about caylee? she was three. Better her mom "dumped" her in nebraska than killed her.
Women have shelters they can go to for safety. They are old enough to seek help, should they choose to do so.. (which I happen to think is more the problem!)
As for Caylee? My sentiments exactly. Except since it's too late for that now, someone needs to find a good place to dump her mother.. where she'll never be found!
I think there should be an age limit but not 3 days. I would think more like 5 years. I think it is a lot easier for parents to abandon a child than it is to kill them. Just because a parent would abandon a child does not mean they would hurt them. We have to remember how much it hurts a child to be abandoned. The parent may just be overwhelmed and frustrated. If they wait a day or two they may feel totally different. My husband used to work in law enforcement and get calls from pissed off parents wanting their kids to be taken away. He would go talk with them and mediate the situation. He would go back the next day to check in and everyone would be fine and dandy. Teenagers are unruly - parents need to deal with it not abandon them.
What these particular parents are doing is making a mockery of a law that was intended to save lives of children being abused, neglected and beaten by parents not equipped to raise a child.
Corn Husker: if an 11-year-old is being abused or neglected by an ill-equipped parent, do they have less of a right to being saved than an infant?
I am so sad that parents are abandoning children so old...an 11 yr old!! I can't imagine the trauma that this child will experience his whole life. Shame on the parent...that is a cowardly act. At least when a newborn baby is abandoned, they have no memory of their abandonment. But an older child will definitely have memories and pain and that is why I call their parent a coward because they have to take those additional things into consideration.
Truthfully, I don't know how I feel about the age decision. One one hand I can see how people are using this "way out" to their advantage. It is wrong to just leave your parenting responsibility at the door w/no penalty. I am more sympathetic to leaving an infant because an infant has a much better chance to get adopted than an 11 yr old. But on the other hand I wonder if these parents will just go on a abuse their children instead.
I can see a lot of angry parents threatening their kids..."If you don't listen to me, then I will abandon you....it is the law and I have the right to do it....!!"
An 11 year old child is old enough to dial 9-1-1 and be placed in foster care in their own state.
What an 11-year-old could possibly do wouldn't console me if they ended up in the hospital or dead at their parents' hands. Parents--both good and bad--are authority figures in their childrens' lives. Abused kids very rarely report their own parents.
I think all children should be protected equally by the law.
This is such a hard subject to sit judgement on:
I know several families - coast to coast that have adopted russian babies. For the most part there have been smooth transitions. Some have had to seek therapists for bonding issues. 3 cases that I found down right frightning. One case, I would not trust the child with a pet or smaller children. Case 2, I have not seen him do anything to harm anyone, but he does have a temper and sociopath traits. When he glares at his mother chills run down my spine. She is now on prozac and admits that maybe she should not have went into the adoption blindly but she shrugs and says what can I do? We took him into our home and he is mine for better or worse. I pray it is never for the worst for her. Case 3, at 12 she tried to burn down the house and kill her mother. They did not want to put her into foster care because they feared one day she would seek them out for revenge. Instead they told her they were visiting her homeland. After a few days of touring they took her back to the orphanage and left her there. They do not regret that decision.
PS She was 15 when they took her back to her homeland
My heat aches for the children that have the ability and cognition to grasp the concept of being left. It just aches. Can you imagine how they must feel? As for the abuse, that is truly an enlightening perspective-- but what about other family members... friends? Although, yes, I would rather them be safe in a hospital without a shread of familiarity if it means they get a chance to live a life unharmed. I can't imagine how scared and unsure they must feel.
Here is an answer to our problem-- Tests. Seriously. You need an F ING licence to own an animal. Not that animals aren't important... but... well, you all know what I am geting at..
I wish I had the resources to take all these cocnizant children in to my home and hold them. :**(
***Side note, I am not some communist loon... but I think some aptitude test before parenting would be good. Or better our sex education program, so kids are not caring for a sack of flour for a week and not a thing more said about it.....
Emily
Before I had a chance to even comment on corn husker, you beat me to it, and with the exact feeling also. Excellent comments!
Snips & Snails
What is with these Russian children? Is there catastrophic abuse going on in the orphanages over there? I know of 2 different families that adopted Russian children. Both girls. One was 2, the other 4. Both have serious issues. Both are driving their parents to the edge... and they don't know what to do. I know therapy is involved. But why are these children so angry/difficult? I was too afraid to ask my associates. I felt it was too personal, but if you could shed some light, I would really appreciate it!
I think allowing parents to dump their children off to be wards of the state at any age is absolutley ridiculous! Most siblings are seperated, and grow up in foster care. I hate to say it, but some foster families are worse than the ones that they came from!
Maybe what needs to happen is a two tiered law. Infants could be handed over with no questions. Older than 1 year would require a "cooling period" and then a consent to allow the child to be adopted (no longer anonymous for the parent, which might cause a few people to rethink their choice).
Can't help but think that Family Services should have caught many of these older kid situations before they were left in Nebraska.
OT
the mrs.,
Some, I hesitate to say majority, are children of prostitutes, alcoholics and/or drug addicts. That is an issue in itself, but then add to it some of the other factors, such as, when the kids are in the orphanage there are so many other children that not every child will get the same amount of handling. The staff may tell you differently, but think about it. Like it or not we all have our tipping point. Do you want to rock happy, gurgly baby or fussy baby that you have rationally tried everything and the back keeps arching or the crying becomes worse? If there is a quiet baby that seems to be fine and isn't seeking extra attention the tendency is to let them be, which isn't good, either. It is so hard to put a finger on the 'why". If you are lucky you adopt one of these children while they are still just months old and can form bonds. The older ones that are becoming cognizant of their surroundings a bit more difficult, but add the other issues, who knows? Was there any abuse? Likely, you will never know. Nor will you be told if the mother or father had other psych. issues. I listen and that is something you can do for your friend. Also tell her to locate other parents that have adopted from Russia and having issues. There are different kinds of support systems out there not unlike this website.
Tired but happy mom, excellent idea!
I have recently changed my stance on this issue, having recently seen a mother on tv who was being criticized for driving across state lines abandoning her teenage daughter under this loophople. Apparently the girl had Oppositional Personality Disorder (and to an extreme degree at that) and the parents had tried everything to get her help, but whoever they went to said there was no help and no therapy. They refused to admit her to the hospital during one appranetly severe episode and so the mom took her to Nebraska, and when they also wouldn't help she said to them that she was invoking her right to abandon the child at the hospital. She said she did it so that the child could get care and because she simply could no longer deal. That was the mom's story anyway, and if it was true, you can see why she might be at wit's end with a child who could be destructive or violent...especially if she had other children in the house...and esoecially being told there is no hope for it to ever get better. I did have a couple of questions..like whether this family had any medical isurance, or whether they were trying to get free care...which may have been the sticking point. Because I know that most doctors and hospitals will jump at the chance to treat a heavily insured patient for whatever complaint they might have. In fact, mental facilities especially are notorious for doing this. I have some relatives who need mental health care, but are sometimes denied hospital admission, even in emergency situations, because there are only so many free beds available at any given time.
And what is with the Russian babies? I am incredibly curious since just this weekend we were discussing the idea of adopting some children from Russia. I guess I had an inkling of trouble in the back of my mind because I did say to my husband that I would be more comfortable adopting girls to lessen the chances of bringing a potentially violent child into our home. My guess is that the way they leave them in cribe day in and day out with no human contact pervents them from having a full capacity to love or feel empathy for other people. But that's just a guess. Any facts anybody could offer would be most welcome.
Snips and Snails
Thank you so much for the insight. How sad that these parents who want children so much, think to adopt from places like Russia or China, and the child is basically 'damaged goods'. There is no other way of putting it.
I have seen pictures of children in China chained to their beds or shoved in dark closets, barely even given a thought, much less hugged or cuddled or talked to. I believe it does something so irreparable to their little psyche, that it's almost next to impossible to heal from it.
Also, I don't know if anyone else has heard of China's "Dying Rooms", but it is tragic. It is when a child (I believe mostly girls) are left abandoned in rooms and not given food or water. They are basically left to die because of China's strict one child policy.
These children are sometimes found left in fields by their parents and taken to these orphanages because the parents are too afraid to claim the child out of fear of being penalized for breaking the law.
Isn't it sad that we're just talking about American children being abandoned and no one stepping up to take care of them in the same breath as we address adopting children from Russia and China?
It's tragic what happens to children all over the world--not one of them is worth more or less than an American child--but why is it that foreign adoption is all we're talking about? These abandoned American children need loving families as well.
I feel that there should be a law that you could take a child of any age to your local Children's Services and leave them. If you are unable to care for your children or fear that you may hurt them, then you should be able to take them somewhere that they will be safe and not face criminal charges as long as the child is unharmed!
Sometimes the parents are dropping off there kids because the parents are afraid of their kids. This is not uncommon when teenagers start to get older.
My mother-in-law moved away from my husband when he was 16 because she was afraid for her life. She just packed up and left and didn't tell him where she was going.
I think there should be no age limit to protect everyone involved, and somethimes that means the parents.
Emily
"These abandoned American children need loving families as well."
Of course American children need loving families, too.. but we just happened to go in the direction of foreign children and adoption.
My goodness Phoenix! Your husbands mother moved away because she was afraid for her life! I hope there's no residual effect left from his childhood because of this and he treats YOU well! Did you know this before or after you married him??
Yes... when he was younger he was in a gang and was not quite violant. He had some major life changing experiences and is now a devoted husband and father. He can still be hot tempered but so am I but he is not the same "boy" he used to be.
The Mrs.: Yes, we went in that direction and my comment was to hopefully get us all thinking a bit more about WHY we went immediately in that direction.
I meant he was quite violent.
Remove the not
Only for those that can handle it, here is the Documentary of China's "The Dying Rooms".
(In 4 parts: Approx. 40 min. long)
I don't know why Emily. It's ALL painful. Whether they are American babies or not. I feel sorry for ANY baby that's left unloved.
I totally support this. I grew up in an abusive home. My mom did not want to have kids or be a stay at home mom, but she did, because it was expected of her. She had 3 kids in 3 years, living out in a rural neighborhood with no friends or family within 20 miles, and took out all her frustrations on me.
When I hear the stories of the safe haven laws, it's hard not to wonder how different my life would have been had I been adopted.
I think there are women out there who are not emotionally equipped to be mothers, but they got pregnant, and oops, they're stuck. And to corn husker, an abused 11 year old probably does not have the werewithal (sp?) to call 911. I know I didn't. I felt utterly powerless and had no ability to trust others.
Naughty teens be warned. A trip to Nebraska may be in your future.
Anonymous said...
I got a random call when I was a teenager to babysit a boy who one of my girlfriend's had babysat before. This was well before cellphones and text messaging. When I called my friend to get the scoop she was not home, but her mom verified that she had babysat for that family before. I went. What a nightmare. The boy threw a knife at me. It stuck in the wall behind me. He was 11 and was wearing jeans that were big enough around for a man to wear, but pant legs rolled up. I had to call, now this will date me, the drive in movie theater and have the mother paged to come home. She did not respond and came home when it was all over. I feared for my life, but held my ground, never thinking to call the police. Any wonder, I never sat for that child again. In today's day and age I would have called 911 and I certainly would not hold it against ANY parent who dropped this kind of monster off at a safe zone.
5:55 PM
RE-POST FOR ANONYMOUS!!
To the person who posted about China Social Welfare Instutes...that film you referrenced is very outdated. There are better sources of information available than that film. I have very perosnal experience with this topic and absolutely hate it when people disseminate misinformation about the process and the children who live in SWI's.
ChinaLove
That video clearly has the date on there, and everyone can see this was taken in 1995-1996.
I am sure the conditions are better, but you can't hide what happened to those poor children.
Besides, you have no proof that there aren't still some abuses going on in those orphanages. People need to know!
Americans are lined up ten deep to adopt American babies, and there aren't enough to go around, so that's why we don't have such fear for them as we do for kids in other countries.
Older American kids...that's a whole different story.
Truth hurts,
I actually said that I have very personal experience with Chinese SWI's. I do know that conditions have changed and to make an across the board accusation is very damaging to the International Adoption process.
There are 40,000 families outside China waiting to adopt Chinese children, and there were 30,000 domestic adoption in China last year. There is an 6-8 year wait for a healthy infant for non-Chinese citizens. 10 years for a nation that is developing so quickly like China is very outdated for a film
I have been in these SWIs and have seen what is happening. The myths and misunderstandings about the treatment and conditions in China are something I face everyday. Also the misunderstandings about the Internation Adoption program.
For more information please read...
Wanting a Daughter Needing a Son.
It is so much more complicated than the One Child Policy, which by the way is not as strict in some areas as others, or for some ethnic groups as others. China does not have a legal way to place a child for adoption. There is also tremendous pressure from family members. There is so much more going on than women abiding by a One Child policy.
Racism and ethnocentrism can only be reduced through education. Not spreading wrong information.
Chinalove
"I do know that conditions have changed and to make an across the board accusation is very damaging to the International Adoption process."
I seriously doubt my one comment will hurt any adoption process in China. So, let's be realistic.
I understand they are not as stringent on the "one child" policy, however, those that DO decide to carry on with the birth of an extra child are fined/penalized. Some can afford it, some can't. China is even kind enough to put the poor families willing to pay this fine on a payment plan.
Now as I said, I realize conditions are better, but you can't tell me, and I refuse to believe, that everything is what it should be. And I beg to differ on the 8 yr. waiting list for healthy newborns. I know for a fact that if you have enough money, you can adopt that child within 2 years.
You are very worng about adopting in two years. And newborns are not available, a child ust be at least 6 months to leave China for IA. The problem is that people like you giving out false statements as face will not hurt IA in China but it does hurt people like my child. When we get asked every day rude and intrusive questions like"how much did she cost?'
"What do you knwo about her background."
"I heard they chain them to potties to potty trian them in China."
"Was she let at the bus stop?"
You are making statement that are just not true. Money is certainly not moving the process along. Read and really educate yourself if you are going to make statements about something you do not have experience with. these are not statements that are new to China IA, families have been hearing them for years. Contact an adoption agency and just try to get into their China program.
Married 3 years. Proper weight. Asets of $80,000 or more. Not same sex couples, not single. Get in line behind 40,000 other families.
Please excuse the typos.
I obviously feel strongly and it is difficult to fight racism and cultural stereotyping daily. Some people insist on sticking to their way of thinking about this topic and I have realized over the years that it is fulite to try to change some people's minds.
Mom--while it may be true that parents are lined up "ten deep" to adopt perfect, white babies from American mothers who didn't do drugs it is completely untrue that it is difficult to adopt an American baby if you are willing to be a bit more open with your search. How do I know? Because my two sisters are both adopted from Lutheran Children Family Services, an agency that specializes in "hard-to-place" children. My sisters were infants, both under 6 months--not older children--and they were unwanted by most American prospective adoptive parents.
I don't condemn anyone who choses an international adoption, but it turns my stomach to think of all the babies in this country who are not as lucky as my sisters who found parents willing to look past the flaws that 9 in 10 couples found objectionable.
ChinaLove
Ok, I didn't know you would pounce on every word I wrote, but when I said 'newborn', I should have just said 'baby'. But it doesn't matter. You are getting really dramatic here. I haven't said ANYTHING racist. I am not the person you should pick your battle with. I think the assholes that walk up to you and ask "how much did she cost", should be bitch-slapped. I'm sorry you and your child have to endure idiots like that, but they come along every day, we all have to deal with them one way or another.
Emily,
Thank goodness for people like your parents. They sound very special.
You're right, I meant healthy babies are in high demand. Truthfully, I'm not sure whether other than white ethnicities have difficulty being adopted...although I know that some of the families I know who have adopted just wanted a baby, any baby of any color. Two have gone to China (where they obviously did not get caucasian babies) because they could get NO baby here.
One acquaintance who did get a beautiful daughter from China ticked me off because she was told by the people in China who turned the child over to her that she had first been abandoned by her birth mother, and then was put in a temporary orphanage type situation, and then was placed in a smaller home setting with a woman who took care of her until she was old enough to be adopted, and then was given to this lady...her "fourth mom." They told the new parents that, because of all of the "mothers" the baby had already lost, it was very important that she allow the baby a lot of good bonding time and not to leave her with babysitters too much or her ability to bond might be damaged. MY acquaintance followed up this story with, "So I told my babysitter that she must promise to be available to me on a regular basis and to not quit on me for at least two years"...as if she were a really great mom for making such arrangements for her new baby. This was so she could keep up with her exercise, tennis, luncheon, massage schedule...and apparently not be bothered to be the one to allow the baby to bond with her. And, mind you, this was not a nanny in her employ, but a job by job sitter that many people in the neighborhood used. "Bonding with her new daughter" didn't slow her down a step. All I could think was to wonder why she had gone to such trouble even to get her if she didn't even want to be there with her.
And Chinalove, I don't think truth hurts meant to be disrespectful at all. She was just offering her opinion, which includes many commonly held beliefs about babies in China. Thank you for clearing them up. I also believed what she said to be true until you enlightened us with updated facts. Don't be mad at her. But I would punch the next ignoramus who asks you a question like the truly offensive ones oyu have been subjected to. I can absolutely see why you'd be extra sensitive.
Thanks for the backup Mom. I wasn't trying to upset Chinalove at all, and I now understand why she was so sensitive.
Although Chinalove has reminded us that these atrocities are outdated, they still happened, and should never be forgotten.
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