Sunday

Comment leads nanny to reevaluate her position...

Received Sunday, August 3, 2008 - Perspective & Opinion
I am a nanny with three years experience. I have been working at my job for almost four weeks. This week, the Mom boss told me to take "K" to the toy store and let her pick out some new toys, so we had some 'fun stuff' to play with around the house. "K" is almost 4. K wanted two dolls, a pretend purse, a vacuum and a maid cart. The maid cart is complete with trash can, spray pump, vacuum, mop, broom, bucket, etc. We accomplished the task and K had a lot of fun with her toys. "K" had so much fun with her maid cart and vacuum that "K" said "I'm gonna be like Edith when I get big". Edith is their longtime housekeeper. She has been with them since before they were married. I told the mother on Friday how much fun the new toys were and what "K" said about wanting to be like "Edith". The mom boss said, "Let's not encourage that, shall we". I looked at her kind of confused, unsure of whether she was joking or not. It was then that she replied, "I am not paying 18 thousand dollars for preschool so she can clean some one's toilets". The look on her face was pretty surely disgust. My face was frozen. I did not respond. I thought it was such a nasty and bitchy comment to say. I was particularly upset that the mother said it in front of "K". It doesn't seem to me Mom thinks too highly of their housekeeper of 12 years. I have no strong feelings one way or another about my job. It is a wait and see thing for me, but this comment- I thought this comment was completely vulgar. Is this a warning sign for a nanny?

69 comments:

NannyP said...

I say let her play, Right now she is just playing pretend, and is showing what she has been around. in a couple weeks she will probably be imitating you, saying she wants to be a nanny. or imitating mom and dad. Just let her play and make sure youplay with her.

chick said...

Yep, that was a nasty thing for the mom to say, no doubt. It seems to me that one should at least PRETEND to respect someone who does work in your home that you don't care to do yourself.

Is it a warning sign? Hard to say. If she keeps spouting stuff like that, especially in front of her child, I would say that it's fairly likely MB doesn't respect you, and eventually her attitude will rub off on her child.

Don't quit yet, but don't be too concerned about leaving if this continues.

And by all means, keep playing with the "maid" toys. Unless MB throws them out for fear of her daughter enjoying actual pretend work, lol!

Seriously? said...

Wait a minute. She didn't say anything disrespectful to or about her maid; she said she didn't want her daughter to grow up to be one. I don't want my sons to grow up to be boxers, but that doesn't mean I have no respect for them. Tell me ONE parent that says dreamily, "I want my daughter to clean up after other people when they grow up!" EVERY parent has high aspirations for their child, and it seems like Mom is trying to provide her daughter with the best.

Now, saying it in front of her daughter was highly inappropriate, to be sure. The child should be allowed to play without being made to think that she is doing something wrong. But, in my opinion, there is nothing to be "warned" about here. Mom expressed an opinion about what she expects for her daughter's future. Just smile and nod and allow the child to pretend until she gets bored with it.

Yaya said...

I would take it as a warning for things to come. I agree w/ above commenter...sure, you dream big for your kids...but it sounds like the way in which she said it was disrespectful to anyone who would choose such a lifestyle. If this is how she feels about the housekeeper than it is also how she probably feels about the nanny. You are merely 'hired help' to her and she seems like the type of employer that will always make that known. (Just my read on the situation...been through enough 'bad' families to know by now!)

Marissa M. said...

Snob alert. I say run, run as fast as you can...

Emily said...

Do you know if your boss grew up rich, poor or somewhere in the middle? If she's worked her way up in life economically it may make her more sensitive to the idea of her daughter saying things like this. Also, perhaps she's grown very comfortable with you and she doesn't censor herself when something touches off a deep fear/insecurity. Neither of those possibilities makes what she said acceptable, but we all have moments when our prejudices come out. If this is a one-time thing, I'd try and not let it worry you too much.

Manhattanmamma said...

My mother worked as a maid and grandmother worked in an old fashioned laundry. Both would tell us all the time "God Forbid you should have to clean up anyones filth to earn a living!"

I have nothing but respect for them, and I respect anyone who who does an honest days work for an honest day's pay. but would I want my kids to grow up to be maids? Absolutely not! That's not being a snob, that's just wanting the best for my children.

AnyasNew said...

To be truthful, I don't think any one WANTS their child to grow up to be a maid/housekeeper, however they typically don't respond to normal childhood play with such disgust.

"Mommy" DOES sound quite snobbish, and this does not relate to the simple fact she wants "more" for her child, but HOW she decided to portray this want. (Even from the most lenient stand point, at the bare minimum, her comment was entirely inappropriate, and quite conceited.)

All children play games like this: grocery store clerk, maid, "mommy" or "daddy", cook, grocery shopper, lawn mower etc...this behavior is even something you see in animals: role playing; the young mimic the "old", and play in ways that will somehow relate to the real word as they age. In other words, they almost 'practice' adulthood in play. This form of pretend/play, is very healthy, and I hope her mother won't take away the joy of just being a child, and blissfully pretending to do the tasks we all to often grow to adhere as an adult. Ironically the same parents, who cry out that children are growing up to quickly in this day and age, unknowingly 'steal' little bits of childhood with their negative/jaded behavior and view points of the world.

Personally, I would be a little concerned by this comment. Why? Because if she views the maid (the other "hired help) this way, she most likely also views YOU this way. I guess, that comes down more to pride than anything else, but if I were a nanny I would want to be treated with respect as a teacher and mentor, not treated as if I was scraping the bottom of the barrel babysitting for a family that had "real" skills, which I somehow did not posses; as evident by my chosen profession.

The part that I find the most humorous? That 'mom' doesn't see the irony of her ways: she views her "hired help" as less, YET they are who do a vast majority of raising her child, and developing her mind. I'm surprised she's not running around in a blind panic afraid that you will taint her daughter with a deep seeded disgusting urge to be a *gasp* nanny. Ugh, it's just ridiculous.

westchester nanny said...

I would just keep observing the situation. Of course as everyone else said I'm sure she doesn't want her child to clean up after others to get by. Frankly I don't want my children to either and I've been a nanny and nanny/housekeeper (scrubbing toilets) for nearly 15 years. She should not have said it like she did in front of her daughter that was snobby and rude. If you're in a "wait and see" situation do just that. You spend more time around the mother than the housekeeper I'm sure and you'll be able to gauge her personality right away.

mimi said...

It's time to be done...The undertones of such a conversation are that mom believes she's more of a person than the maid. Which I can tell you (and I bet every dollar I have on it) YOUR on the same level as the maid. To others and her husband your position and worth are on the same level as the maid in her eyes ....although I in no way agree, You are a SERVANT...and I am positive this is how your portrayed to her friends.

I was kinda in the same position as you. I worked for a very wealthy couple...mom went weekly for nail appointments and pediacures. When she was away she was missing time with her child ...but I guess she didn't care. THEN came our trip to Maine to their house on an island off the coast of Bar Harbor...I was bored stiff, there were nearly no toys, it was FREEZING and I mean FREEZING outside...we didn't even have crayons and paper...Since we were traveling to this second home I thought for sure it was stocked up, but it wasn't ...meanwhile to use up some time we painted our fingers and toes...(I should mention she was almost three and had her toes and fingers painted before) WELL mom took one look at the finished product and starting screaming at me in front of the child that there is more to life than spending time painting your toes and fingers and that I was "ruining" her. What? YOU leave her to get yours done!!! I was interacting with HER!!!!

Bottom line, I worked for a lunatic who also portrayed me as a "servant" ...they even called me "nanny" and no other name...Your too good to be in a situation where your secertly looked down upon...it's time to go!

snarkymama said...

No one wants their kid to grow up to be a maid. She is a mom and you are the nanny, you can disagree but must raise her children the way she sees fit. Ask her if you should put the maid cart away. Otherwise ho cares, the kid is just playing and mom has every right to say what she wants in her house with her kid around.

ericatomten1 said...

OMG! My daughter wanted Santa to bring her a cleaning station. It never entered my mind that she would be preparing for her future job as a housekeeper!! She was 6 and so excited to play with the vacuum. Children learn by doing! The Mom of K sounds like a piece of work-- especially with the 18K for preschool comment!

UmassSlytherin said...

What I want for my child? I want her to be happy and healthy. I would not be ashamed of my child if she was a maid. I would be proud of her for having a job. If my child grows up and chooses not to go to college, and is happy doing what she is doing, and gainfully employed, and not doing anything to hurt herself or others, I would be happy. That is what I want for my child. How much money she or her future husband (or wife, for crying out loud) makes is not important to me.

Geez, maybe I'm just in a pissy mood but so many people seem so freaking snobbish. I wouldn't want to work for a snob like that. Don't know if I'd quit right off the bat, but I'd sure start looking elsewhere. There are wonderful, nice people who employ nannies. If this woman thinks that about her housekeeper, what must she think of the nanny? What happens when the little girl says, "I want to be a nanny like my nanny." Mom will probably say the same thing about that.

Aliana said...

the mothers is a snob, and her role model idol is probably Victoria Beckam. lol

Manhattan Nanny said...

Edith is probably a much better role model for K than her mother. I guess you have to accept the fact that your MB looks down on the help, and that includes you. If you can have a sense of humor about that, and not let it affect your self esteem, or your attitude toward your charge, then stay. If it really bothers you, you'll want to move on. Unfortunately, this kind of snobbery is not always easy to spot when you interview for a new job, and is not uncommon among employers of housekeepers and nannies.

And come on folks, nobody seriously thinks if your kid plays fireman he'll never grow up to be an investment banker!

ABC/123 said...

"If my child grows up and chooses not to go to college, and is happy doing what she is doing, and gainfully employed, and not doing anything to hurt herself or others, I would be happy. That is what I want for my child. How much money she or her future husband (or wife, for crying out loud) makes is not important to me. "

And then you woke up and smelled Mrs. Weasley brewing coffee right?
If your child is working in McDonald's making minimum wage and their S/O is working in Burger King making Minimum wage, THEY WONT BE HAPPY VERY LONG. You need a college education just to get a $13.00 per hour Customer Service Rep position these days.

Get your nose out of the fantasy books and your head in the real world or your poor kid won't stand a chance.

OP, the comment was bit snobbish and it's clear your employer doesn't respect the maid very much. It's not so much what she said but how she said it and who she said it in front of. She sounds like a real winner.

UmassSlytherin said...

abc,
you're an asshole. sorry, but you really are. My child has already learned to appreciate literature and that is because I love it.

My mother, god rest her soul, gave me and my siblings that advice: "It doesn't matter what you do as long as you're happy and you're not hurting yourself or others." I think it's great advice to live by. Your argument, if you can call it that, sucks. you say if my child and her significant other are both working making minimum wage they won't be happy long...well then if they came to me and said, "ma, we're not happy," I would do whatever I could to advise them and help them to be happy. Duh. I said, as long as they were happy. If they are UNHAPPY then they're not happy. My mother's advice was sound: all of us kids are making enough to support ourselves and our families. Ironically, the two out of five of us who do NOT have college degrees are making the most money. Funny, huh??

Maybe if YOU read more Harry Potter books, your reading comprehension skills and your intellect would not be so questionable.

lovesthegirls said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
lovesthegirls said...

Geez... I am so over the capitalist BS that pervades our society. It disgusts me. Chances are "Edith" is a hell of a lot better person than "K's" mom. UGH! NO BODY IS BETTER THAN SOMEBODY ELSE..... whether they sell stocks on Wall Street or scrub toilets in Queens....

NNJ said...

I agree with ABC. Its not easy to make a living out there. And not having a degree is even harder. I didn't go to college. And I regret it. I am not putting down the nanny profession. But without a degree the most I am making is $15 per hour as a nanny. I don't have health coverage in this field.

I see housecleaners that the families I work for hire. They look so miserable. Who wants to clean out someones toilet...and pick up other peoples trash. Maybe, its depressing working in these huge beautiful homes. Taking care of them like they are your own. But reality is you will never have your own house.

UmassSlytherin said...

nnj,

sorry but that is ridiculous. I run my own business and two of my best clients own their own home and neither of them went to college. Many lenders will work with you if your combined income is high enough, which is entirely possible to achieve if two blue collar people have jobs (cleaning, childcare, etc.) To say you will never own your own home if you do not have a college degree is just false.


Many cleaners who work for companies do pretty well and have benefits. To some people, money is not the most important thing in the world. My original point is that not everyone is the same. Some people are happy doing blue collar jobs. Not everyone has the need or the desire to go to higher education. Does it make it easier to find a job? Sure, but that still doesn't mean that everyone must go to college in order to make a decent living. It's simply not true.

NNJ said...

Yes, I somewhat agree with you Umass. I know alot of people without a college education that have their own business and are doing great! We hope to open our own business one day soon (restaurant)

No one in my family went to college. And all I have ever seen them do is struggle and fight over money. Growing up we always had our own house, but it was a constant strain.

maid with money said...

For those that think housekeeping is a lowly job, let me tell you a little about myself.

My Aunt started her own cleaning business about 12 yrs. ago.
I had just gotten laid off from one of my jobs and desperately needed money. I've never been afraid of a little hard work, and I know cleaning other people's houses can be grueling work. So, I called my Aunt, and she put me to work for $7.00 an hr.
I would spend approx. 3 hrs. on a house with 2-3 other girls, depending on the size. The big houses would usually fetch about $100-$150 to clean.
I worked my ass off for my Aunt for about 2 yrs. and one day she pulled me aside. She said I had earned my own houses, and set me up with my own business.
I started out small, and had only one other person to help me. For a long time I was afraid to go big like my Aunt.... but one day, when she needed a new car, I saw her plunk down cold hard cash for a brand new Lexus. Paid for.

I started picking up more houses, and hired a couple of more people. I continued to work my ass off, but wanted to be like my Aunt. She had gotten just big enough that she was able to stop going in these houses herself, and was making big bucks.

I'm still not as big as my Aunt, but if I want a day off I take it. I pay my own health insurance and taxes, and still clear several thousand a week.
How's that for a maid with no College education?

maid with money said...

Oh, and let me say, we usually would clean 3-5 houses a day. We start at 8am and go sometimes to 5pm. And the big money is with "move-outs". That's where people move out of their house, and need it cleaned top to bottom. Those fetch anywhere from $200 to $400. And we get at least 2 a week.

maid with money said...

sorry, I'm tired. That's 3-4 houses a day. Not 5! Smaller ones take about an hr. and a 1/2 with 2 girls.

Robin said...

Years ago I nannied for a wealthy family whose children had picked up on their snotty attitudes. Once the mother was instructing the eldest son to remove the youngest son's wet bedding and drop it down the laundry chute, as the housekeeper couldn't make it in that day. The boy curled his lip in scorn and said, "Why should I do that? I'm not the hired help!".

Kid's pick up on parental attitudes.

does this moniker make my butt look big said...

umass, My honey & I are blue collar workers. We own our home and have vacationed all over the world.

My mom is proud of us too..she is so happy that her kids lead happy lives..she does not care that we do not have college degrees with a higher paying salary..she just cares that we take care of each other and enjoy life.

You are a great mom umass..though you are young, you sound like my mom and she is the most admired women on my list!! Your daughter is lucky to have you.

Money mike make life easier but not better..just easier!

ABC/123..where there is a will there is a way! You are a jerk and have no business telling anyone to give their kid a chance!! yeah asshat fits well!

cali mom said...

OP, your boss sounds somewhat snobbish, but in reality, if everyone who thought their boss was a mildly distasteful person in some way or another was able to just up and quit because if it...we'd all be millionaires. Or unemployed, depending on how you look at it.

So, K is having fun PLAYING, acting out what she sees happening around her a lot. Which is, interestingly enough, someone (not her mother) that she likes, doing things that she thinks look fun. While the mom's sentiments are understandable, her comment was rude (to K and to the housekeeper) and it is a regrettable attitude for her to take towards her child's imagination. AND towards people that she conducts business with.

But again, if we could all walk out of a job because our boss said something about someone that we thought was obnoxious, or felt that our bosses viewed us as (GASP!) nothing more than employees, we could all count ourselves very lucky.

Waa? said...

My charge wants to be a horse when she grows up. Another wanted to be a daddy (a girl).

Does this mother honestly think anyone really grows up and aspires to be a maid? It's not usually the kind of job high on anyones list. I could see if the kid was 16- but little kids? I would say it's a big red flag that the mother can't even separate that reality. Her snobbery goes just that deep? Completely ignorant. Next time she says something like that- respond innocently and in a surprised tone "do you HONESTLY think she will WANT to be a maid as an adult from playing with toys as a child?!" What the kid was expressing is how much she loves the housekeeper- so much so that today (that day) she wanted to be JUST like her. Kind of telling, she didn't want to grow up to be like mommy.

anonymouse said...

I didn't finish college and I make $55,000 a year AND get health care as a nanny.I pay taxes and I'm proud of my life. I go on several trips a year including twice this year to London already. You don't need to have a college education to make good money. You do however need to be a hard worker with a strong work ethic. If I could do it all over again, yes of course I would finish college. The only reason I would finish it though is so I can proudly display my diploma. I would only want it for personal reasons. I make more as a teacher with their masters degree in my area so no need for me to pay to finish my degree.

UmassSlytherin said...

thank you blb: I think the same of you! **hugs***

abc/123 said...

"abc,
you're an asshole. sorry, but you really are. My child has already learned to appreciate literature and that is because I love it. "

Yes I can see how literate you are, vulgarity always makes one seem so much more intelligent.

And I have read all the harry potter books, gone to every midnight showing and book party. While I enjoy them very much and I believe they teach valuable lessons, I don't subscribe to the 'everything I need to know I learned from...(insert tile here such as Harry Potter, Star Wars, Star Trek, Batman or what have you)

It's YOU who has trouble with reading comprehension. Perhaps if you read something above that which is written for level 4 readers, you would have picked up that the point and emphasis of my post was about the importance these days for a College education.

No, I don't have one, nor does my husband. Yes I do quite well and so does he. It is NOT an option for our child to choose not to attend college. She is in 8th grade. By the time your child reaches college level about the only jobs available without a college education will be off the books nannies, Wal Mart greeters and cashiers, Fast Food work, and the like. And even to move up to management levels they require college now.

Teaching your child to do what they love and be happy above all else is very valuable. but that must be balanced with what will help them make it in the real world. Of course, if a child is dead set against college, you can't force them to go and do well. But the way you raise them will strongly influence that.

Especially as the mother of a daughter you should realize that women who don't go to college have twice as hard a time in the real world as men without college education.

Women who don't got to college are more likely to end up in relationships with men who struggle with substance abuse problems.

Women who don't attend college are more likely to end up as emotionally and physically battered wives.

The divorce rate in married couples who are making $75,000.00 per year or less is twice as high as those who earn more than that.
Of course earning potential on increased greatly if you have some college and even more if you hold a degree.

Obviously, as a parent you would want to help your child if they were unhappy. But you do realize the odds of a person starting college after 25 years of age is greatly diminished, right? The odds go down even more if they are divorced after an unhappy marriage, and if they are female and have a child. All of which usually happens when they don't go to college, marry young, and marry a man with no college education.

So while it is very noble of you to teach your child you will accept them as they are, I would think you would do your daughter a much greater service to teach her what real life is like. Because there is no magic spell for success.

Again, this is coming from someone who
Never went to college,
Married at age 19 to a man who never went to college.
Lived in "wedded Bliss" Bouncing from low paying job to low paying job, too ignorant to realize at that age that earning $10.00 an hour in 1987 was not a "Good paying job"
Survived to make a success of our lives finally.
Celebrated 21 years of marriage last year despite the fights, tears, more fights, angst and loathing, both towards ourselves and each other all because of our financial situation. Nothing like going for interview after interview for some BS job you know you can do only to be told they went with someone with a degree. Oh yeah, it's great to worry how you will pay your rent this month or wonder which bill you will put off so you can buy food. And our free-spirited, 60's bred parents, who told us college was for the man never had an inkling we were anything but happy! We were too proud to let them know.

So think about it.

I'm not saying someone can't make it without college. There are plenty of success stories there. But being realistic, you are better off today with than without.

You know, I wondered why you were so disliked by some people here and now I see why. You are an arrogant, nasty little piece of work. Anyone who disagrees with you is treated to obnoxious remarks like "Duh" and called and Idiot or has their intellect questioned. Reading Harry Potter doesn't place you at genius level, sweetheart, I have news. So please, get off your high Hippogriff. I hope your idea of instilling a love of literature in your child goes beyond the HP books and will extend to having her read Shakespeare, Hemingway, Orwell, Homer, and Poe to name a few.


As for earning 55k a year, anonymouse, and I mean no disrespect here, that barely enough to qualify to rent a decent two bed room apartment here in NNJ at most middle-class quality community complexes. I know because our next door neighbor's daughter, who didn't want to attend college, earns 52K at her job and has just been turned down for her third place she applied to even though she has excellent credit and at least 6 months rent saved. In order to buy a home or condo, most real banks now require that 3 years of your annual salary equal the cost of the home. So that may be a great salary where you live, but in the NY Metropolitan area and places like it, it's just about enough to survive.

UmassSlytherin said...

abc,
I did not ask for your life story. And your perception of me is without a doubt misguided. Sorry to sound crude, but in the "real world" even intelligent people call an asshole an asshole. And you are an asshole. You attack people for their parenting skills based on their opinions and posts. That is being an asshole. Sorry, but it is. I never claimed to be a genius and I certainly do not think I am. Of course there is a wide world of literature out there, and my child has been exposed to it. I have an English degree and I love literature of all kinds. Your intellect is questionable because you choose to attack people unfairly, and choose to make comments about the way they parent saying "their child doesn't have a chance." You can make a point without insulting someone. Well, some of us can. You obviously cannot. And that makes you an asshole. An ignorant asshole. So duh. Duh all over you, chief. Go sell it somewhere else cus I ain't buyin. Your first post was a deal-breaker. You think you're a lady cus you don't say asshole? You're not. A lady doesn't attack someone's parenting skills for no good reason.

Have a nice day.

bebe said...

Abc
You are a nasty, nasty little creature.
Umass is by far one of the most popular posters here.
Don't hate.

does this moniker make my butt look big said...

ABC/123 Aren't you a ray of sunshine. Who the hell do you think you are lady?? I stopped reading after about the fourth or fifth ridiculous paragraph.

Give me a break. You are so anal..you can bad mouth others on here, but it is your child whom I feel sorry for."it is NOT an option for our child to choose not to attend college"????

I am sorry your life has been so miserable. I would love to know after 21 years of fights, tears, angst and loathing..what the hell did you have to celebrate? I have never heard a better pity me story in my life!

It is obvious you have control issues. From your post about your daughters future and from your judgment toward others.

You can deny it all you want but your post wreaks of money, money money..that is very sad.

You better wise up or mark my words..you will lose your daughter as soon as she is old enough to leave. You cannot force children to live the life that you did not!
and I quote" again this is someone who never went to college".

Lady, You are miserable and it is not beacuse you do not have a college degree or because you don't have more money..it is beacuse your priorities are in the wrong place and you are judgemental brat!

Umass has a happy life, a husband who loves her and a daughter who will no no doubt feel free to come to mom and dad when the time is right and let them know what she has decided she wants to do with her future.Because she knows that no matter what she has the support and love of her parents.

What do you have?

Jeesh..get over yourself

UmassSlytherin said...

Thank you, bebe, I think the same of you. I felt abc was unfair in accusing me of calling anyone an idiot who disagrees with me. I don't think I do that at all. I only defend myself when attacked. Her first post towards me was very condescending so I felt the need to speak up.

UmassSlytherin said...

thank you blb you are too kind! **hugs**

UNOME said...

ABC

Of all the noobs we've gotten in the past year, you are my new favorite.

Your post was eloquent, spoken from the heart and made many valid points. Although I don't agreee with some of what you said, overall it was fantastic!

Thank you for an excellent read!

bestillmyheart said...

Awww, the socially retarded anons are making friends! How cute!!

whosaidthat? said...

yes,abc/123 you are one of my favorite boobs to .

UmassSlytherin said...

she's one of my favorite lubes.

:)

t.r. said...

Umass,
Keep your tone in check. We both know you have a very large mean streak. It's not every woman who can make her husband cry.

mimi said...

I went to nanny school and never finished my degree at another college....My hubby has an associate's degree but doesn't work in the field with that degree. I run a homebased daycare and make *almost* 50,000 a year. My hubby works at a plant as a press operator and makes 26.00 an hour which makes him nearly 63,000 a year. We don't have degrees OR the huge school loans to back back. (and his associate degree field the going rate is 11.00 an hour)

My sister went to hair school, she's now one of the most sought after hairstylists in Columbus...she made 100,000 her first year and that figure has only gone up every year since.

All 3 of our cousins attended private school...and then private college and all 3 got B.S degrees in various things...NONE are working in thier fields. One is painting hand painted wall paper (apparently what a art degree gets you) The other is a supervisor at a distribution center (so much for the accounting degree) Their parents have to help them with bills every month, and they have 10 year old cars ...and STILL are paying back school loans!!

It's not education that gets you anywhere...it's the drive behind it! If you are a smart person and you want a stable life then you have to choose your profession wisely and no college degree is going to give you job security.

UmassSlytherin said...

t.r.

you must have me confused with someone else. I am not a mean person. And I don't really know what you are talking about.

manhattanmamma said...

As someone who was involved in a bit of a rough start myself here, I can look past the jabs both you and Umass are guilty of and see the intelligent yet different opinions in both of your posts.

All of you others commenting is really not necessary and serves no real purpose other than to derail the thread and fan the flames. Of course, I dare not say it's not within your rights to behave in a very juvenile fashion, but as neither Umass nor ABC seem like they need champions, it would be nice if whatever differences they have remained between them.

My children will have the choice to attend college or not. but if they choose to not attend, it will be with the understanding that, within six months, they must be gainfully employed, full time and fully supporting themselves including paying rent if they are planning to remain living under my roof, If they don't or can't find work, and refuse to attend some sort of continuing education program full time, then their option will be to become responsible adults and take care of themselves.

I have watched my sister and her husband support both their children, one of whom is 28 and one of whom is 27, neither of whom wanted to further their education for over a decade since they left High School. My sister pays their car payments, insurance and for food and clothing. The oldest has announced her engagement to another High School graduate who works as a hospital porter at 31 one years of age. This is his 11th job in 12 years. They are not worried how they will pay rent as both sets of parents are covering whatever their miniscule paychecks don't. If I might add, neither my sister or the man's parents are wealthy, so I suspect once the gravy train runs out of steam so will the marriage.

I agree with unome, you made some very good points, ABC. Particularly when referencing the statistics regarding girls who don't pursue higher education.

And Umass, that is not to say I don't see the validity and wisdom in some of what you said as well.

However, calling someone retarded-socially or otherwise-is never nice, BeStill.

UmassSlytherin said...

Thank you manhattenmama for a great post.

I do get heated when someone attacks my parenting skills and says my daughter doesn't have a chance because I enjoy reading Harry Potter and implies that I don't read anything else but. comments like that are made by someone who clearly desires an argument and flame war. But you are right, there is no need to fan the flames.

That being said, if we could all just make our points without attacking others, people would not feel the need to defend themselves. I am guilty of defending myself: I did do that.

Marypoppin'pills said...

That was a great post, ManhattanMama!

I was thinking everyone might need to go to a neutral corner, but it seems to have calmed down a little! :)

UmassSlytherin said...

mpp, cym!

Denver Nanny said...

I nannied for a 4 year old little girl who's favorite game was to pretend she was cinderella--and not the princess! She wanted to be bossed around and told to "scrub" things and "feed" her stuffed animals while her mom pretended to be the evil stepmother. It was startling to walk in on a toddler pretending to wash the dishes and do all the laundry--not to mention the mom acting like a witch--but the girl LOVED it.
the same little girl insisted she was going to grow up to be a nanny for my kids (when I have them) and the mom loved it!
my parents probably would've preferred I stayed with my pre-med major instead of becoming a nanny/teacher--but they know I love what I'm doing, so I'm happy=they're happy!
parents should never talk down about ANY profession in front of their kids!

Manhattanmamma said...

Thanks MPP and Umass. :D

I think the important thing to remember yet is often forgotten by many (myself being the biggest culprit) is writing things literally in black and white on the net is not like saying things in conversation. There is no immediate way to explain ourselves and tone of voice, which means a great deal, is lost. If we aren't the best at writing skills, we can come across the wrong way and not mean to. At least that's a large part of my problem! :D

anonymouse said...

ABC..

Anonymouse here...

I guess I've gotten lucky and "beat the odds." Cause you see at 30 years of age I have no children, no credit card debt AND an amazing 3br room 3bath condo that is brand new. i don't even have roommates OR a husband Hmmm... Yet you say at this point in life I should have children and be divorced and unhappy all because I have no college degree. I'm not going to disagree with your whole post but guess what sunshine? The pidly (in your eyes anyway) $55,000 I make a year is more than enough for me to live comfortably in my part of the world. I DON'T live in you part and if I did I would demand WAY more than what I make here. Thanks for the stats updates but I don't need them. CHEERS!

ABC said...

Well anonymouse maybe you should go back to school and learn how to read because I said nothing of the sort about where you SHOULD be.

anonymouse said...

"But you do realize the odds of a person starting college after 25 years of age is greatly diminished, right? The odds go down even more if they are divorced after an unhappy marriage, and if they are female and have a child. All of which usually happens when they don't go to college, marry young, and marry a man with no college education. "

Did I read it wrong pumpkin??

ABC/123 said...

I'm sorry BUMKIN, maybe I missed the part where I directed those stas at you in particular.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
anonymouse said...

Bumkin? I like it..

Well whom was your comment directed at? Looks like to me any female over 25 who didn't finish college and divorced early. No?

Anonymous looks like you're going to get deleted. Buh-bye!

anonymouse said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
anonymouse said...

ABC..

I just re-read your post and I apologize for coming out swinging. As a single girl who has worked her ass off to get where I am in life I get a bit defensive. I realize you weren't trying to pick a fight and I started one. I'm a bit grumpy today as well.

Anon.. You're right I was being a witch ;)

Sorry for being one to you as well.

ABC/123 said...

Anonymouse,

If I offended you or anyone else here, I too, apologize.

And to answer a question posed by someone else, having beaten the odds myself I have much to celebrate. I have raised a daughter who is now a high honors student and have a wonderful husband of almost 22 years despite the challenges we faced of growing up poor, wedding young, and being uneducated. Am I rich? No. not in tangible wealth. But we live comfortably and I have a happy family so I am anything but miserable.

Three days a week however I see plenty of misery.

I volunteer at two local Chapters of Shelter Our Sisters also known as S.O.S as well as for Oasis, a second chance organization that provides food, clothing, childcare among other things to single mothers. While anyone can become a battered woman, the odds do greatly increase when they are not further educated. Of the 90 plus clients the three chapters are dealing with right now, not a single one has any education beyond high school. At Oasis, our statistics of success is dismally low as we require any woman who wishes to use our services to enroll in state or privately funded further education programs and maintain a good GPA or standing in class. I believe most come in with the intention of doing better, but once someone falls into a rut of failure and poor choices, it becomes a battle for them to rise above it.

Anonymouse, you have indeed beaten the odds and you should be very proud of what you have achieved. I only wish there were more success stories like yours. Unfortunately, especially when you look at more urban areas, they are few and far between.

Not attending college is not an option for our child and I stand by that. She knows this. It's as much a rule she has imposed upon herself as one we have instilled in her. She works very hard to maintain her good grades, volunteers as a peer councilor at the shelters and involves herself in numerous activities that help the world we live in. At 16, she prefers to work at the shelter, or clean up a park or beach with her friends rather than hang out at. mall. She sees first hand the struggles that face a person, especially women, if they are young, poor and uneducated. Of course, she knows there are people who beat the odds, and strong work ethic is important to achieve anything in this life. These are all givens, but in day to day life, she realizes for every success story about 50 more-most with children-have fallen by the wayside. And that's very sad.

UmassSlytherin said...

abc,
I think that's amazing that you volunteer for that organization and that your daughter does as well. I also volunteer on weekends and I think it is sad that most people do not use their time to contribute their skills, time and kindness to their community.

I still think your comment: "Get your nose out of the fantasy books and your head in the real world or your poor kid won't stand a chance." was unfair to me and I still stand by my original opinion of you, although I do commend you for your volunteer work. I see you felt the need to be specific and detailed in what makes you a good person in your post. I have not been as detailed about what I choose to do in my life, so it irritates me when someone passes judgment on me with such a rude and presumptuous comment as you did. I understand that there are people who do not appreciate my "online" sense of humor, and if one is posting on a message board, one needs to be aware of the fact that people are going to make rude comments (like you made to me) and one needs to accept this as a fact.

I just wanted to express my opinion. As I said, your volunteer work sounds wonderful. And it's great that you expose your daughter to programs like that. But to assume other people do not expose their children to the "real world" and imply that they "won't have a chance" with the type of mom I am is hurtful and rude. I stand by that opinion.

The Poster Formally Known As Anonymous said...

How sad when someone misses an opportunity to rise above it all and display grace under fire because they are too ignorant or immature to do so.

UmassSlytherin, your last post was not needed. While ABC/123 was wrong to be so harsh on you, she did apologize. You had several choices--Stay quiet, accept the apology gracefully or blow it and you blew it. So you still think she's an asshole, great for you. But your last response reminded me of something posted a while back in this blog "When someone calls you an idiot, is better to remain silent then to open mouth and remove all doubt." I'm sure you think I'm an asshole as well, that's fine. Sticks and stones.

UmassSlytherin said...

She did not apologize to me. When you make a personal attack on someone, directing it at that individual, it calls for an individual apology. I did not recieve one.

And I don't think anything of you. It's so ironic when someone makes a statement like yours about remaining quiet, all the while running their mouth ridiculously, thereby contradicting themselves so spectacularly.

If I want to speak up, I shall. I don't really care how that makes me look to you or anybody.

Peace, anon.

watching the drama queens... said...

wow...for a bunch of people claiming to be extremely attentive parents, you seem to have plenty of time to start drama with strangers...maybe your time would be better spent with your children instead

UmassSlytherin said...

Yes, isn't it silly when people start drama? Scroll up and you will see who originally started it, drama queen. As far as spending time with our children, isn't it amazing how you have a crystal ball and know everyone's work/childcare situations and can pass judgement on it? You're awfully clever! :)

does this moniker make my butt look dramatic(whoops, Big) said...

hey drama queen..my kids happen to be napping..2 hours every afternoon (hot diggity damn!)and when they get up and we go outside..my laptop comes and while I play ball or run myself silly, I stop every once in a while and check ISYN for anything fun to repsond to! Some moms watch soaps all day, some do laundry, some do the mailman, I do ISYN.
Cheers!!

Marypoppin'pills said...

"Some do the mailman?"
Omg, BLB, you are hilarious!
Thanks for that one!

does this moniker make my butt look big said...

Why, you are welcome MPP!
that got my funnybone too! tee-hee

UmassSlytherin said...

I'm doing the mailman right now! j/k

blb you are a hoot!

Sprak said...

When my son was quite young, around seven or eight or so, he loved to help the grocery clerks bag our groceries. One of them asked him, while he was loading groceries into a bag, what wanted to be when he grew up to which he replied, "a professional football player" and paused briefly before continuing "or maybe a grocery bagger!". The clerk and I both laughed. It was one of those "moments" we mothers remember forever. He's neither football player nor grocery bagger, by the way, but works as a stockbroker on Wall Street.