Tuesday

Nudity Crackdown?

Received Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - Perspective & Opinion
I sent my nanny and my 3 y.o to the park midday today, (5/27). It was blustering hot. I sent a change of clothes for the 3 y.o so could go in the fountain. My nanny came home and said she could not change the 3 year old's clothes at the park. She let her go in in the clothing she was wearing and they came home wet. Hardly a big deal, but I am just concerned about her reasoning. She claims the park department is cracking down on naked children at the park because of pedophiles hanging around and perverts standing around taking pictures? Has anyone heard of this? I was at Diana Ross Park on Saturday, (5/24) and there was water to be played in. Many kids were playing in it. Most had clothing on but 2 or 3 were absolutely naked. I thought this was a bit weird given that it was the weekend and there were fathers a plenty hanging out with their children. What are your thoughts on this? One of the young children I saw on Saturday was too young to have been potty trained and I was concerned about him eliminating in the pool. Has anyone heard of a crack down on changing children at the park?

129 comments:

Anonymous said...

boring post

Victoria Anne said...

If there is not a crackdown there needs to be. I am so tired of going to the beach, the playground or wherever and seeing people who have their children swimming and playing nude. Aside from pedophiles, what are you teaching your children about respecting their bodies??

Anonymous said...

I get the whole pedophile angle and keeping your kid dressed but respecting your body? What sort of uptight repressed Victorian crap is that?

Anonymous said...

Sorry, I don't think that teaching children to respect their bodies by keeping their privates PRIVATE is uptight at all. Sure, my kids enjoy a naked romp IN the house now and again, and I walk around topless IN the house regularly. But, when in public I feel they should be covered. A child under maybe 2 years old could be changed outside, no problem, but any older needs to use a restroom with privacy.

Anonymous said...

Maybe your nanny has a firm grasp of common sense and she realizes that a nude three year old girl in public in this day and age might not be the wisest choice. She could have cited the "crackdown" just to spare you the embarrassment of not knowing any better.

just anonymous said...

There are too many pedophiles, especially at a place like this. I think it is a good idea not to let your child go nude in public.

anyasnew said...

I have to agree with 6:04, perhaps your nanny was simply trying to protect your child without embarrassing you. Whether there is an actual "crackdown" or not, shouldn't be of relevance. What is of relevance, is the fact that it is not wise in this day and age to let children run around in public nude. Unfortunately, schools and playgrounds are exceptionally easy targets for pedophiles (as obviously this is where an extremely large number of children congregate.) Not all pedophiles have to approach your child to be "appeased", some just watch blending in with all of the other parents and caregivers...which honestly disturbs me just as much. Keep your children safe, protect them from what they can't possibly understand, and don't create any more reason for a person who is already disturbed to prey on them.

mom said...

Are there bathrooms to change in? if not, nanny did the right thing.
How about sending her in a swimsuit with the clothes over it next time. Then she can dry off quickly and put her clothes back on without ever being naked in public. I agree. I would never want some perv even looking at my naked child momentarily. Yuck!

Sarah said...

Another point about not letting young children be naked in public is that is not helping to socialize them. We are helping them become adults. I certainly do not get to swim in the park nude. Why would I teach my child that that is what people do?? It is not and I am trying to help my children become adults.

Anonymous said...

Good point sara. Also, who wants to swim or romp in somebody else's pee or poop. Gross.

Anonymous said...

Boring post, yes.

Does it matter if there is a crackdown? Don't you want your child to stay safe, and not be nude in the public eye? Remember the picture of the kid whizzing on the street? What if someone posted a pic of your nanny changing her charge?

marypoppin'pills said...

Perhaps your Nanny made an executive decision, and for the welfare of your child, kept her dressed?
I agree with Mom. Next time put your daughter in a bathing suit under her clothes.
Personally, I think your Nanny did a good job. She had your child's best interest at heart.

Anonymous said...

Sheesh.

Your nanny was following park rules AND trying to protect her charge from the prying eyes of any possible pervs.
Give her a break.

Sue Doe-Nim said...

Not to name names but it's possible that Victoria Anne, 5:57 PM, 6:04 PM, 6:24 PM,6:38 PM, 7:38 PM, and the rest of them got all Sanctimommy on your nanny and she's sick of their shit but too polite to tell you.

Let the flames begin... I won't respond, I'll just sit around knowing that y'all are going to be embarrassed one day soon about how tediously overbearing and nosy you are.

Anonymous said...

Uh, sue .... you did not make one lick of sense.
Step away from the pipe.

Anonymous said...

How could they have gotten Sanctimommy on your nanny? They don't even know her, so how could she be sick of them?

Did you drink too much tonite??

Sprak said...

uh, I believe it's Maggie that likes to tip a few. Please don't read anything into that. I love Maggie. So, she likes to imbibe. She's honest enough to admit to her vices!

Anonymous said...

Seriously?

What is wrong with you people? I am in the NYC area and I have not heard of a crackdown. True, nanny could be sparing a not so bright mama's feeling, but also it could be that nanny was lazy. Changing a child's cloths requires effort. The most effort I have seen a nanny display was wrangling the wrapper of a Mr. Goodbar in the 95 degree heat. She used her car keys, teeth and eventually, just her tongue. Oh I wish I had that photo!

Anonymous said...

"Hello Pot! It's me...Kettle"

that's for you, Sue.

Anonymous said...

Sprak
So then what do you think Sue's problem was last night, lol?

lizz said...

anon 12:57...are you serious? not every nanny is lazy...it cannot be possible that the most effort you have EVER seen is nanny trying to open a candy bar...maybe you are overexaeratting just a little bit?(even though i would love to see that picture too)you should see me sweating in 95 degree weather at the park chasing and playing with ym 18 month charges. It also couldnt have hurt that child to be wet for more than 5 minutes.

hellcat said...

How old was the one who was too "young to have been potty trained"?
This subject always amazes me. Some consider age 3 absolutely normal, but all (but one) of my siblings and I (there are 5 of us) were fully potty trained at by a 1.5, which most people don't even know is possible.

Marissa M. said...

So maybe she was lazy. Point is your kid she be changed in a restroom or somewhere private. No one wants to see their vagina's and penises hanging out. Unless you want some creep taking pictures of your child and "getting exited" to it in the closest bush. Have some common sense mom

Marissa M. said...

excuse me, i meant to say should not she

Anonymous said...

Wherever there are fountains, there are nude little kids. It is completely innocent and in NYC, you are not allowed in the playground without a child AND you best be sure some man lurking around the perimeter would be chased down and given a serious ass kicking! I mean come on, people. We are not this hard and cold. There is still innocence to being a child and playing in a fountain, surrounded by other moms.

mpp said...

9:24
I'd like to think there's still an innocence, too. I remember when I was younger it was nothing for the little 3 and 4 y.o. girls to run through the sprinklers in the neighborhood, and no one ever gave it a second thought.
It's sad that now it seems like it's turning into a thing of the past.

mom said...

Sadly, with high powered lenses and the proliferation of child porn on the web...it has to become a thng of the past. But yes, incredibly sad nevertheless.

UmassSlytherin said...

Sad but true, mom. :(

Anonymous said...

I cant believe this nonsense.... do we really live in such a ridculous uptight fearful world that changing a toddlers clothes at the park is considered inappropriate? that we are worried about them being seen by pedophiles? any child over two should be dressing in private? teaching them to respect their bodies? give me a break, thats teaching them to be ashamed of thier bodies. It is a sad, sad thing that we have become so fearful, and so inhibited.

undercover regular said...

1:12
It IS a "sad thing that we have become so fearful, and so inhibited" .... that's the only way to be nowadays.
Who wants to be uptight.
Who wants to be looking over their shoulder for that "high powered lense"?

We have been given NO choice. Times have changed, and we have to adjust to it .... we are now made aware that it isn't as safe as it used to be. These kinds of things aren't swept under the carpet like they were 20 years ago.

We have to do what we have to do to protect our children. Period.

cali mom said...

1:12 I agree. It likely depends a great deal on location. I'm thankful that apparently NY is much different than the Bay Area. At Totland, one of the biggest and oldest local playgrounds, in hot weather there are usually several kids runnning around naked. No one thinks twice about it or freaks out. The playground is surrounded by houses, and moms, dads nannies and kids go there. Some parks where there is usually a resident homeless and/or crazy person, the situation would undoubtedly be different. But to be THAT paranoid about changing a diaper? How sad.

To Marissa who is so grossed out by the penis or vagina of a 2 year old? Get your mind out of the slimy filthy gutter. What the hell is so disgusting about a young child's body?? And how is it "respecting" our bodies to be taught that no one should be subjected to the sickening sight of them, and if they dopn't find the sight of them sickening it's only for evil, twisted sexual reasons. That's just teaching fear and shame.

undercover regular said...

Cali mom
I wasn't going to go that far, but you took most of the words right out of my mouth.
And marissa, your post was just a tad disturbing. The mere thought that 2 yr. olds have "vagina's and penises hanging out"? I don't think I would've ever been able to construct that sentence, let alone think it.
I don't understand your thought process, or how your mind functions, but it's kinda creepy sometimes.

Anonymous said...

I live in NY and don't know if there is a crackdown or not per se. But, as someone who takes care of children, I would not let a 3 year old run around naked nor would I change a 3 year old in public viewing in a park. A young baby-maybe, but not a child older than 1 or so.

I think your nanny used good common sense in not letting your little girl be naked in the park!

Anonymous said...

THE SKY IS FALLING

THE SKY IS FALLING

THERE ARE PEDOPHILES WITH HIGH POWERED LENSES AND ERECT PENISES!

They are children. People have been having them for eons.

Get over yourselves.

Anonymous said...

undercover regular..you ares oooo wrong..I have watched you and so many of your "Liberal,regular,fellow posters" for years now and I have got to tthank you all for getting us where we are today.

You all jump down my throat every time I post..I never see things the way you do and let me just tell you..we do have a choice..but thanks to %&44##@@ voters like yourselves..instead of taking care of things and keeping our families safe..you all do your liberal magic and these damn pedophile's..discusting shits that they are get out after rehabillitation..and over 60% of them violte again!!

How do you vote MMP, mom, Cali Mom, UNdercover regular, manhattan mama,sprak??

Tha bastards,if found guilty beyond a doubt should be hung..and then perhaps we would be able to take our children to the park, school or beach without worrying so much!!

Your posts anger me to NO end..you are all the same PC jerks who have caused this problem!!

And don't for one second try to play it off like you beleive in the death penalty ..you are the ones who vote to set these freaks free!!

Your posts over the last few years give you away!!

you are all anti spanking anti death penalty, pro ilegal alien, pro positive reinforcement PC dummies who have made our sick worl what is is today!!!

Kill the pedophiles and rapists,
close the borders
spank your child and get this country back in order!!

or stop bitching ..afterall you are the ones allowing them on the very streets your children play on!

Anonymous said...

um, sprak is strom thurmen's niece

Anonymous said...

and as for all my typos.go to hell if thats what you think is the most important thing to comment on!

Anonymous said...

355..well somebody needs to tell sprak that!

Marissa M. said...

Disturbing? Are you kidding me???? How else would you phrase but naked kids in public?

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my "sentence construction". Though I don't see how it's innaproprite at all. What I meant was that I find it innapropriate and gross to to expose yourself in public. If I used a nickname for their privates or didn't call it penis and vagina your asses would be all over me right now for using "kid names" for them. Like the "wormy" post a while back.

Give me a break already. And no I don't think it's inapropriate to say : i don't want to see a kids ( or anyone's)"privates" hang out period. SO put a bathing suit on your kid, they come in all sizes.

The days of us running around outside naked is over.

And for the record I don't think kids or adults body's are "disgusting" you are putting words in my mouth. I didn't even use the word. If you don't know how to interpret sentences spend time practicing some comprehension.

Anonymous said...

3:55 and 3:56... u are the same poster, idiot

Sarah said...

Thank you Marissa. I, as well, do not want to see your children's privates, or yours! There is no reason to teach children that in the real world, at parks or wherever, it's okay to show everyone your vagina. It's not! I don't get my tits out in central park, why would I teach my children that they can.

If it's ok to have your kids naked in public, then when is the cut-off date? I certainly can't have my 10-year-old girl nude in public, but what about my 7-year-old? Can someone tell me the last day that it is okay to show my children's privates to strangers. If it isn't okay for older children, why is it for younger children??

Anonymous said...

2:57

exactly

just because there is constant publicity about pedophiles doesnt mean theres one looking over your shoulder right now

mom said...

5:30...maybe not...but then again...MAYBE so.
For the record, when my kids were little I didn't freak out about the occasional diaper free moment at the beack or changiing at the pool. But there wasn't the internet then...and a lot fo other things have changed as well.
Now, I have ALWAYS been against any stranger photographing my children anywhere, clothed or not.

For the person who asked me to vote above. Not sure which of your many points you were asking about...but as for pedophiles..I htink they should NEVER be let out of prison...EVER. It is a noncurable problem. (Unless you castrate and I have serious ethical problems with forcibly castrating anybody, no matter how horrible they are.)

cali mom said...

3:53, I must assume that our parents regularly smacked you into Kingdon Come and back to have planted such violent tendencies in you.

Not that it's any of your business, but if you had been paying attention here instead of fantasizing about killing pedophiles and beating children, you'd know that I for one am 100% against illegal immigration. And THAT problem has little to nothing to do with pedophilia.

Also, I am strongly in favor of the death penalty. I believe our limited resources are better used for the deserving, productive people among us than to provide room, board, entertainment and medical care to people who would do us all a favor by removing themselves from the earth. If a pedophile is convicted a 3rd time, they are locked up for a LONG time thanks to the 3 strikes law, which I guess you missed because you were lost in your violent daydreams. But please, do give me the heads uop next time my vote is required to sentence a convicted pedophile to death instead of giving them some jail time.

cali mom said...

Actually Mom, castration does not cause erectile dysfunction, so it would in no way hinder a pedophile's activities. In the Renaissance, "eunuchs" were VERY popular as lovers because they could do everything but impregnate their female partners, and perhaps it was a big conspiracy between all the women of the time to make sure the menfolk never knew this, as it was also a common practice to put them in charge of guarding the women that someone thought needed to be guarded.

Marissa M. said...

Sarah, you couldn't be more spot on. Thank you

cali mom said...

Typo in my post to 3:53, meant to say "YOUR" parents smacked you.

Anonymous said...

cali mom..you are ridiculous!! Violent tendencies??

btw you can take your 3rd strike and shove it!! So,if a perv does your kid in a bathroom at the movies..you think he should get 2 more shots to prove himself??

You are some kind of parent..oh excuse me ...or is it different if it's YOUR kid?????

I didn't miss shit.....

You do this every post..you change the focus and attack the poster instead of dealing with the real issue which is as UR states "we have NO choice" when it comes to living a certain way..again the subject..nudity and children..we do have a choice and most of these posters..like yourself choose to give them 3 turns at screwing a kid before locking them up..how is that even thinkable???


Its great that you want to kill the pedofiles..even if you are afraid to say it in a politically incorrect way..make sure you dot your I's and cross all your t's sweetie..we would not want anyone getting the wrong idea and for the record I think you are a ridiculous poster...

are you for the killing of pedofiles or the 3 strikes law?????
In case YOU missed..they are not the same!!!!!!!!!!
but since you know it all..let me let you in on a secret regarding spanking..when the public schools started informing children that if their parents spanked them they could go to jail..criminal activities soared as did drinking and driving amoung teens..as did teen pregnancies..you can look the stats up yourself..you are not worth my time!

Not all people who spank their children were beat as kids or had horrible lives..stop trying to make a case for your weak argument!
you don't want to spank your kids...don't..your discipline is your business..
You don't like me because I have the guts to offend people by stating out loud that I spank my kids and That rapists and pedofiles should be killed.For that matter anyone breaking into my home..where my children sleep..should be prepared to die to.. I am not scared, unlike yourself, to admit that I can think for myself and protect myself and my family and I also am not fearful of being tossed out of the popular girls table..so my little blond haired blue eyed califonia cheerleader..next time you want to guess at some one's childhood ..take on a sissy pc poster..maybe you can handle that!!
And I'll do you a favor..If anyone EVER harms my child or any child I know..I'll kill them ..then that is one less sicko you have to worry about spending $$ on or harming your precious kids

and If you want to think I am crazy or in a vilolent fantasy world because I dream of a day that we have someone in the white house with balls enough to change the law and get rid of these sicko perverts //so be it..cause I wonder the same about you..how can any parent think of something so vile and not have the same obviously angry & violent feelings????

Anonymous said...

to the blog police I posted 356...but not 355..once again..stop acting like you know who is posting..you don't silly little one!!!!

cali mom said...

3:53 and 6:43 screeched angrily at the top of her lungs:

Kill the pedophiles and rapists,
close the borders
spank your child and get this country back in order!!

And then tried to deny her thirst for violence. Are you seriouosly like this, or just typing this stuff for our entertainment? It's priceless!

Peace.

Sprak said...

Whoa lady, you're attacking me and I haven't even posted my opinion about the topic of this thread. Of course, I am referring to you, hysterical anonymous at 6:43. Sure, I get angry about Pedophiles. No, I don't get angry or bother about spelling errors or typos because I make my share, I'm sure. Just once, did I remark about an anonymous poster who was calling another poster names but couldn't spell them right. Now, really, if you are going to call someone a name, it should be spelled correctly. That's respect.

But to get back to the subject. I would not want my child or grandchild to romp around on the beach sans clothing. My grandkids are so very young that they'd be in the age group likely to partake in this activity. It isn't just the high-powered lenses about which we need worry, but there are many perverted people living somewhat normal lives, relatives and friends that you deem normal, but their minds may not be so normal. Among this group of family men (and it is mostly men) who are at the beach with their children, nephew, niece, grandchildren, etc., sordid thoughts may be brewing in their sicko minds, and it is the very thought of this which makes me want to see children dressed in some sort of beachwear.

I read a post where someone suggested it is a sick mind who would think as I do and some other posters on here, although some seem to have gone a bit overboard. However, here's another thought. Maybe some of us have had first hand experience with one of these sick-minded individuals and as a result, we are cynical, suspicious and more knowing than we wish to be. We must protect our children, and whatever that takes, it is worth it, ultimately.

Also, are you seriously demanding to know how some of us "regular" posters vote? You seem to be very anti-liberals. Rest easy for I am a conservative, good buddy, although not nearly to the degree I used to be. However, I am still against the death penalty in that I do feel it is wrong (on many levels), but unfortunately, it is necessary. Violent crimes against children are the worst of the worst, for sure, and many of these criminals get a special kind of justice while they are in prison.

Anonymous said...

sprak, you are right, the death penalty is necessary!!

Anonymous said...

cali mom, when your 4 yr old is raped by her pre school teacher..then you can talk to me about Peace!! you are a naive bitch with big opinions and a big mouth and no experience in the matter.When you sit in a courtroom and face a disgusting excuse for a human being who admits that having sex with your 4 yr old gets him off then you can judge weather or not my anger is a "thirst for violence"

yes, this really did happen..look it up..manhattan beach, ca.--- pre school..probably when you were a snot nosed brat!!

yes, bitch, I am seriously like this!*must be fun to live in fantasy land where things like this never happen and you can judge others on subjects you know NOTHING ...NOTHING about!
go back to dreamland sweetheart..

Yes I screach kill the rapists and kill the pedofiles..please I really would love to hear what you would want to see happen to someone who violated your child.

go ahead ..tell us Cali mom

Anonymous said...

yeah cali mom lets hear what you think should happen to a sex offender with charges of raping a toddler..

Anonymous said...

angry 820 poster here again..I just want to clarify one thing...I think that most of you who post do so one sided..and for many of you..unless it has happenned to you.. you are not capable of opening up your minds..

as angry as I sound..I would never wish this on any of your children or families and if it means people like Cali mom keep posting ignorantly(literally)..and kids are safe and free from this kind of pain..then so be it!

post away from your happy place!

Sprak said...

angry poster, why not use that as your moniker as it surely suits you. Why are you so angry? There are various opinions about how rapists and pedophiles should be punished. I believe they should receive the harshest punishment and there was even a time when I thought I could kill any pervert who harmed one of my children. Now, I realize I wasn't thinking right about that. There are some things that we must allow our justice system, imperfect though it is, to handle. Your comments to Cali Mom are way too harsh. She is only stating her views, and that's ok. She seems to be a very caring mother and I like reading her posts.

Do you realize that your anger is hurting you? You are allowing this rage to fill you and it can destroy you, and all for naught. There are some things that we cannot control.
I think you should simmer down a bit. We are not your enemies.

Sue Doe-Nim said...

I'm sorry to interject reason here but I grew up in Manhattan Beach and was a teenager there during the witch hunt where children were abused by the system and led to believe that the Mc Martin family and Mrs Gooch's had an intricate labyrith of underground passages where children were routinely abused.

No one was convicted.

Look it up.

Oh, and shut up because the crazy spout is unbearable.

anyasnew said...

"Maybe some of us have had first hand experience with one of these sick-minded individuals and as a result, we are cynical, suspicious and more knowing than we wish to be. We must protect our children, and whatever that takes, it is worth it, ultimately." Thank you Sprak! And to the person who threw me into the "paranoid" pile, not only do I educate myself on the world around me, I have first hand experience with this subject matter. I wish it were uncommon, but wishing won't save a life.

Anonymous said...

hey sue..you must be right..the system said it didn'y happen so it didn't happen!

Sue Doe-Nim said...

I was there. Born in 1970 attended La Marina Elementary and then Foster A Begg. Attended the Manhattan Beach coop nursery school and I know what did and didn't happen because they terrorized a community.

By they I mean the investigators and the media.

My neighbors yards were dug up and my best friends were bullied by investigators.

Where were you?

mom said...

Sprak, I think you are making excellent posts tonight!

Sue do nim..I remember the Mcmartin thing well. They were never convicted. I have always felt a little uneasy about the whole thing for several reasons...both in favor of and against the McMartins. I'm not sure we'll ever know for sure what did or didn't happen...but they were not found guilty. (Then again...neither was OJ.) Either way, because of the uncertainty, I don't theink the McMartin case makes a good exapmple to prove anything on either side of this argument.

Cali, why do they practice chemical castration on willing sex offenders then? I'm not saying you're wrong...just wondering why, if it doesn't work. (Plus, I have always wondered why they would trust the guys ot keep taking the pills once they are released anyway.

Pedophiles are the lowest of the low. I used to feel that they deserved the death penalty...but as I have aged I also start to wonder whether we have the right, as human beings, to kill anybody. But then again, I can't help being glad that we do use it sometimes.

LindaLou said...

i'm still trying to figure out how someone's vagina *hangs out* when it's an internal organ. do you mean *vulva*, the external part of the female anatomy?

i'm always amazed when people try to link non-political beliefs to partisan politics. are there actually people so foolish that they believe spanking is a partisan issue? or being against pedophilia? or the death penalty? the catholic church is known to be highly socially conservative and they are completely against the death penalty.

i am personally against the death penalty and i'll tell you why. it's not about THEM (the horrible murdering criminals). it's about us, as a society, and how we treat the least amongst us. killing people is wrong and i'm not going to let a desire for retribution turn me in the the thing i despise. we, the good people of society, ought to be better and more moral than the worst people.

oh, and i'll do a quick change on my 3 year old at the water park. my big kids hold up a towel. pedophiles are just as interested in clothed children and children in bathing suits as they are in naked children. supervise, supervise, supervise. and teach your children to trust their instincts. if an adult makes them feel uncomfortable for any reason, there's probably something to that. honor the inner voice.

mpp said...

3:53

I don't know how I got dragged into all of this ... but I consider myself to be one of the least controversial posters on this board.
I feel like your blasting me just because I'm a regular.

But, since you asked ...

As a victim of child abuse myself, I do believe in the Death Penalty.
Nothing would ease my mind more than to know my abuser wasn't still walking around free right now, because he is. I think our tax dollars could be put to better use than to house child abusers ... more specifically pedophiles, who are given the luxury of 3 squares a day, a commissary where they can buy any kind of candy bar they want, let out after serving a minimal sentence, almost always to re-offend.

Next time, instead of lumping me with others in your rant, why don't you just ask me how I feel about something? You might be surprised by my answer.

Anonymous said...

wow ... with all of the activity on this thread the past 2 days ... and then all of a sudden it stops dead in it's tracks! lmao
ya'll must've gone to your neutral corners!

Sarah said...

Actually it was because we go to bed, and it was late. Only a few people were talking about all the prison stuff, anyway.

Anonymous said...

sue, you are a real peice of work.

If you re-read the post and read between the lines, angry poster was there too. Not only there but involved with her young four yr old child.. Just because your friends had their back yard torn up and were bullied does not mean you know anything about what happenned.as well as just because a panel of judges never convicted anyone means they were not guilty.

I pray that your child is never molested and you are unable to prove it..it is heartwrenching .

As a parent..you know when something is terribly wrong with your child. You see the changes in them overnight..you see the difference in their eating habits and sleeping habits. You see that they have withdrawn when once they were a friendly and outgoing child.
They are now fearful and unhappy.Afraid to lv your side and fearful of the adult/adults that abused them.

Your child describes sexual encounters and your family doctor documents abuse. But nothing can be proven!

You stated a few facts posted on every web page for anyone to read...but forgot to state a few crucial one's.Things that those involved knew.
Like, the whole tunnel bit as well as witches on brooms and flying in hot air balloons was invented by the McMartins to discredit the children's stories of sexual abuse.
As well as the fact that children were able to describe certain physical attributes on adults that had they been properly clothed, children never would have been seen.You also neglect to mention what a small town MB was in the 80's and that everyone knew everyone and there was no way that that family was going to be convicted..ever.

sue, you were a child..you don't know anything about what happenned unless you were actually involved which you have made very clear..you were not..you heard what adults and friends repeated and that is all.And at that young age my dear you were simply impressionable at best!

as far as telling posters to shut up..I'd rather hear a bunch of angry,truthful spout than a bunch of lies, repeated from a 12 year old memory who was as impressionable then as she is now.

Anonymous said...

cali mom very dissapointed you turned tail and ran. You have huge opinions as to how everyone else feels but won't tell us what you would like to see happen to a molester of one of your children.

Still waiting.very curious if you still feel the same once it is applied to your child.

Dee said...

How is having your child naked in public ANY different than posting a dozen nude photos of your child on the internet? I GARUNTEE pedophiles are going STRAIGHT to these parks KNOWN to have naked kids frolicking about- cameras and cell phones ready. Next stop? Online. If you think things ARE any different then you are incredibly naive and do not deserve to have children in your care.

Allowing your kids to be naked in public = it's ok with you for people to take pics of them to do whatever they wish.

Dee said...

How is having your child naked in public ANY different than posting a dozen nude photos of your child on the internet? I GARUNTEE pedophiles are going STRAIGHT to these parks KNOWN to have naked kids frolicking about- cameras and cell phones ready. Next stop? Online. If you think things ARE any different then you are incredibly naive and do not deserve to have children in your care.

Allowing your kids to be naked in public = it's ok with you for people to take pics of them to do whatever they wish.

LindaLou said...

i thought those mcmartin allegation were all eventually proven to be false...

Anonymous said...

a saw a who show on it. Some of the kids are grown up and say it never happened, some have no memory and others are not sure. Maybe it did maybe it didn't? WHo knows but the people who are being accused?

Anonymous said...

anon 129 ..I am sure you meant to say" who knows but the people who are being accussed AND the children who say they were abused"
whoops!

Anonymous said...

lindalou..no that is not true..they simply never convicted anyone..big difference!

Jane said...

Here is some information on the McMartin Preschool case.

Anonymous said...

Some of the accusations were bizarre.
It was alleged that, in addition to having been sexually abused, they saw witches fly, traveled in a hot-air balloon, and were taken through underground tunnels.[4] When shown a series of photographs by Danny Davis, the McMartins' lawyer, one child identified actor Chuck Norris as one of the abusers.[3] There were claims of orgies at car washes and airports, and of children being flushed down toilets to secret rooms where they would be abused, then cleaned up and presented back to their unsuspecting parents. Some children said they were made to play a game called "Naked Movie Star" in which they were photographed nude.[1][4]

"What surprised me as an investigative journalist was that nobody looked beyond the seemingly fanciful nature of the disclosures. Nobody tried to interpret what the disclosures might mean through a child's frame of reference and perception. Nobody searched for plausible explanation....children talked about...improbable events like jumping out of airplanes and seeing a horse killed. Yet, investigators did not track reports that Raymond Buckey had a friend who ran a special effects studio or that Virginia McMartin's sister owned a horse ranch."[5]

Media coverage
Wayne Satz, at the time a reporter for the Los Angeles ABC affiliate television station KABC, reported on the case and the children's allegations. He presented an unchallenged view of the children's and parents' claims.[13] Satz later entered into a romantic relationship with Kee MacFarlane, the social worker at the Children's Institute International, who was interviewing the children. Another instance of media conflict of interest occurred when David Rosenzweig, the editor at the Los Angeles Times overseeing the coverage, became engaged to marry Lael Rubin, the prosecutor.[14]

I too, lived in that general area. It sounded much like a witch hunt to me. All started by one person who was going through a bad divorce and sought to charge her husband with sodomizing her son. The husband was friends with the grandson of the preschool founder.

My feeling on this are that it never happened. A lot of people, including the children were put through a lot of grief because the people who started the investigation didn't know what the hell they were doing.

lauren said...

Thanks Jane, I will check that out. What I would like to end by saying is that while it is possible that a predator is lurking at the edge of the park hoping to get a snapshot of your child, the unfortunate truth is that there is so much child pornography out there that sick pedophiles know where to go and get it. Everyone should have a camera at a park. If I saw a stranger lurking, a park worker or even a mother or nanny acting strange or inappropriately, I would snap their picture and take it to the police. Yes, do everything you can to protect your children, but dont get caught up hypothesizing. Live in the now. Do everything you can this minute to protect your child from all of the dangers out there.

I posted above too.

LindaLou said...

i saw a documentary about the mcmartin case that made the whole thing sound like a witch hunt by one overzealous police officer. you do know that the two girls who started the whole investigation have recanted, right? the whole thing sounds spurious, imo. i tend to doubt that it really happened.

lorenza said...

I agree with you Linda Lou, that child molesters are interested in children whether clothed or not, but they are certainly more apt to be titillated by the sight of a nude child. The thought of these vile minded perverts getting stirred up by these innocent frolicking children makes me want to retch. Do not think it doesn't happen folks. We cannot see the darkness inside of someone's mind.

Anonymous said...

There actually was NO signs of any kind of sexual abuse in the McMartin case. It was a witch hunt and some of the cildren have come forward and say they wre coached,
Yet it does happen and will continue to happen again and again.
We do have to watch and prtect our kids,and letting them run naked in the paek is really not too wise.

mpp said...

12:09
Another huge sign: bedwetting.
Children that had not been bedwetters and suddenly start after having been potty-trained have also been found to be victims of abuse/molestation.
I'm not saying "always" ... because there are occasions where it is found to be a medical condition, but it is definately NOT something to ignore.

mom said...

12:14 I haven't read all of the posts, so don't even know if cali mom eventually responded. But my guess is that she found it totally distasteful to have her child dragged into this discussion...even hypothetically. IMO It's just way too personal when you talk about somebody's actual kids on here.

Not cool.

mom said...

And the McMartin case...it was all too weird for me to form any opinion one way or the other.

On the one hand some of the children's claims seemed impossible (although I was unaware until just now about the movie special effects connection...that's definitely interesting....)

On the other hand, several of the children independently told strikingly similar stories.

Was there something questionable in Raymond Buckey's past also? I can't remember, but I have a vague recollection of something like that too.

The truth is it is very hard to get reliable information out of children...one way or the other. They are easily lead into believeing things...and they are easily scared out of telling secrets.

I'm not making any judgements either way on this one.

mom said...

PS I grew up in So California...a few beaches up (or down) the coast from Manhattan, so, in keeping true So. California "newscast" style, we were bombarded with details of the case for most of every scheduled newscast, as well as multitudinous "emergency" station breaks every single day for months on end. It was a real head scratcher even then.

Do any of you Southern CA bloggers happen to remember one of the "Storm Watch (whatever year)" coverages several years ago where it had been raining for like a whole day (HORRORS), everybody freaked out (as they always do) and they interrupted coverage on every channel solidly for a couple hours hours to offer solid, up to the second, coverage of a helicopter trying to rescue somebody from a car that had run off the road into standing water? As I recall the occupant of the car wasn't even in mortal danger. It was ridiculous!

Anonymous said...

hey mom..in re: to your post at 632..you are right..everybody wants to boast their opinions and tell others that they are "violent and must have been abused for having such feelings" yet..when you put a real twist on things..they run! Reality is ..MOM..that real kids are raped and beaten and until it happens to your own child..don't sit here behind your safe computer and tell me that I must have been abused as a child by my parents because I want to see the jerks that do violate kids Killed!!

I could not agree with you more..but she is not being objective and being very judgemental..the only way I can possibly think that she might understand my veiw is for her to come out from behind her rose colored glasses and taste reality and that is...my kid was hurt and for her to voice that the rapist should get 2 more chances at someone else's a kid just tears me up!! I bet if she put her own kid in the picture..things would change



BTW..I was not aiming for cool!!!

Anonymous said...

lets face it..as long as these children remain faceless and nameless..it continues to provide entertainment for all of us..when we actually put a name or face along side reality..it no longer is fun to make snide ,judgemental remarks.

"not cool" mom are you kidding me?

mom said...

7:58 Your post about your child definitely explained your feelings about abusers...feelings which I atually share, by the way...even though my children were lucky enough to have escaped being victimized.
And I also understand why you felt hurt. (Although I don't think the post I referred to was the one on which it would have become clear that you were the same person who wrote the post to which we are now both referring about your child.)

What I meant was that even I cringed when I read those things written about a specific child of a mom on the blog. Cali mom writes things on here about her little guy on here, and just by virtue of that, those remarks felt too personal and violating even to me. I cannot imagine how she felt, and so I made my comment.

No matter how we feel about one another, or any post somebody makes, I have never liked when people say anything negative about anybody else's kids. I don't think that's cool.

And, for the record, I am very sorry about what you have been through with your own child. I cannot even begin to imagine the pain. I owuld not wish that on any hiuman being...and I think I coul dmaybe kill the perv myself if it were my child. (Despite my feelings about our right,or lack of, to kill.)

cali mom said...

Trying to catch up on this long thread...

12:14, sorry to disappoint you. I went to bed, then spent a long adventurous day with my little guy, and then spent some family time with him and hubby when he came home. But now I am here to satisfy your demands, so cheer up.

If I actually caught someone in the act of sexually abusing my child? I'd probably kill them myself by whatever means I had available. If someone were arrested and convicted for it? Not sure if they should be sent to jail to serve as the special plaything for all the biggest meanest guys in the cell-block (because I hear that IS the special honor reserved for molesters of children, in particular), or simply sentenced to death so they can then spend 30 years on the taxpayers' dimes, being fed, clothed, medically attended, entertained AND played with before all their appeals are exhausted. Did that answer your question?

Oh, and Angry Screecher, PLEASE pay attention or STFU. You've made a couple of statements to me that have proven your ignorance about me, so your assertions that you "know" anything by what I've written here are just laughable. And as Sprak has pointed out, your anger CAN hurt you. I'm actually fine with that, because we can use fewer crazy people in this world, so keep on festering until you your anger destroys you. Just don't take anyone else down with you.

Mom, I have wondered also about why the chemical castration, because the info I had was from a course on Renaissance life and times, but I don't know the instructor's source for that, so maybe he was mistaken? I wonder if it simply dulls their sex drive so the theory is that they will be less driven to commit their crimes?

cali mom said...

AND as I said in my original post on nude kids, common sense must be excercised and a lot will depend on the surroundings. In a playground where there are NO surrounding tennis courts, basketball courts, dog-walk areas, park benches, nothing but babies with moms and nannies, I'm sorry but I will simply not assume that there is a perv with a zoom lens peeking through his curtains at the house next door. Each situation is different, and in my city, people change their kids diapers, have them run naked in water areas sometimes, and have their youg boys pee on trees if they are potty training and there is no bathroom in a playground. I'm not crazy about the peeing thing, but I won't buy into hysteria either.

I remember one news story of a young boy abut 10, who was lost in the woods and had been separated from his family, and luckily, they found him after a few days. It turned out he was there all along and was hiding from the rescuers because he had been taught to be SO fearful to ever talk to anyone because ALL strangers must be evil, that he almost froze and starved rather than respond to rescuers calling his name.

Anonymous said...

wow..cali mom ..I am at a loss as to what to say.

what a lovely post(958)

actually wishing more pain towards somone and I quote "so keep on festering until your anger destroys you".."we can use fewer crazies in the world"

"shut the F up"..??

I used to be a fan. I love sitting back reading these threads and have quite often been impressed with several "regulars " if you will..they are often, funny,knowledgeable and witty..you were one of them

you lost me with that post though

what a horrible thing to wish on someone..just horrible.

cali mom said...

Well, the angry poster seems to be advocating an eye for an eye and is attacking me (and my child) from all angles at her notion that I don't fully support her ideals of torture and abuse. So I guess I just have to say that I'm sorry if my post upset you, but Angry One got what she was looking for in this thread.

Anonymous said...

Marissa M. writes:

Give me a break already. And no I don't think it's inapropriate to say : i don't want to see a kids ( or anyone's)"privates" hang out period. SO put a bathing suit on your kid, they come in all sizes.

However when I click on her user profile I see pictures of the boobs she wants to buy.

I sort of thought you were stoopid but then you had to go and be vulgar and stoopid.

*Like shooting fish in a barrel*

marypoppin'pills said...

I'm not much of a believer of chemical castration. It is supposed to dull the sex drive, but what I wonder is ... since when is rape about desire?
It's about control and violence.

I'm sure many of you recognize the name "Depo-Provera" ... a birth control for women. 'This' is the chemical given to men to control their sexual impulses. I've heard of men "voluntarily" submitting to it instead of going to jail, and I think that's outrageous. Shame on the Judges that allow these criminals to do this.
The last thing they should be allowed is a choice!
Their victims never had one.

Personally, I think I have a cure.
Stick him in a small cell with 2 really big, hairy, smelly guys, and right after breakfast, lunch and dinner ....
he is the "dessert".

Sarah said...

Yes, and they are covered with a bra, and when she's at the park they'll be covered with a bathing suit top. That is our point..?

What is "stoopid," Do you mean "stupid?"

Anonymous said...

cali mom..no one attacked your child. You stated some pretty negative things and implied something about the angry posters childhood that you should not!

In retrospect , it was you who started the personal attacks because you the angry poster posted.
implying her parents must have smacked her as a child and implying violent tendencies.??

why would you say something like that just because some one else has a different take on things than you do?

the poster , it seems, was trying to help you feel empathy(experience her own pain) . She did not attack your child in anyway, but simply asked you, if it were YOUR child would you still feel that she must be some monster to want to see a pervert who molests children, killed?
you indeed stated in a post that if you walked in on someone molesting your child..you would most likely kill them yourself..
so you see you did navigate toward a different path once you thought about it.

the problem is that as strong minded individuals, we often have opinions based on everything except experience or empathy .

That works fine on an otherwise anonymous blog, but in reality it does not work.
we do not know why someone feels the way they do and instead of attacking them, stating that they must have had horrid parents who "smacked them to kingdom come and back to have planted such violent tendancies", we should accept that maybe, just maybe..they have a very valid reason for feeling the way they do and that reason has just as much validity as your reasoning.

your child has not been harmed, (thank God,)..how could you possibly form such strong opinions on a matter, thankfully, that is so far removed from your reality?
and ,how could you be so, so judgemental of others opinions on the matter?

oh and torture and abuse..

if you are seriously implying that you feel the death penalty is torture and abuse..you are right...but you might want to recall why they are there in the first place.

Anonymous said...

I meant to say because you dis agreed with something the angry poster posted.

cali mom said...

Um yeah. No attacks going on here:



"I have watched you and so many of your "Liberal,regular,fellow posters" for years now and I have got to tthank you all for getting us where we are today.
-----------------

You all jump down my throat every time I post
------------------

but thanks to %&44##@@ voters like yourselves.. ..you all do your liberal magic and these damn pedophile's..discusting shits that they are get out after rehabillitation
------------------


you are all the same PC jerks who have caused this problem!!
--------------------

And don't for one second try to play it off like you beleive in the death penalty ..you are the ones who vote to set these freaks free!!
--------------------

you are all anti spanking anti death penalty, pro ilegal alien, pro positive reinforcement PC dummies who have made our sick worl what is is today!!!
--------------------

or stop bitching ..afterall you are the ones allowing them on the very streets your children play on!
--------------------

cali mom..you are ridiculous!!
--------------------

btw you can take your 3rd strike and shove it!! So,if a perv does your kid in a bathroom at the movies..you think he should get 2 more shots to prove himself??
---------------------

You are some kind of parent..oh excuse me ...or is it different if it's YOUR kid?????
---------------------

You do this every post..
---------------------

like yourself choose to give them 3 turns at screwing a kid before locking them up..
---------------------

and for the record I think you are a ridiculous poster...
---------------------

but since you know it all..let me let you in on a secret
----------------------

stop trying to make a case for your weak argument!
----------------------

I am not scared, unlike yourself, to admit that I can think for myself
----------------------

so my little blond haired blue eyed califonia cheerleader..next time you want to guess at some one's childhood ..take on a sissy pc poster..maybe you can handle that!!
----------------------

cali mom, when your 4 yr old is raped by her pre school teacher.
----------------------

you are a naive bitch with big opinions and a big mouth
----------------------

probably when you were a snot nosed brat!!
----------------------

yes, bitch, I am seriously like this!
----------------------

must be fun to live in fantasy land where things like this never happen and you can judge others on subjects you know NOTHING ...NOTHING about!
go back to dreamland sweetheart..



She came here looking for a fight and she got one.

cali mom said...

And, no I did not actually "navigate toward a different path once I thought about it." I had never STATED my thoughts on the subject of punishment for peophiles but Angry One ASSUMED she knew my opinion and based her attacks on me accordingly, blaming me and a few random others for what happened to her child and whatever sentence (if any) was given to the perpetrator.

Anonymous said...

cali mom and angry poster should both be ashamed!! One for highjacking this thread & spewing her angry feelings about this subject at everyone and refusing to let it go and the other for just being down right mean and insensitive as to why someone might be so angry!

we all need to remember** When children are hurt ..parents get crazy!

both need a break..go to your seperate corners for a while..it might help!

Anonymous said...

cali mom..are kidding me??
enough already..my God you can be insensitive..shit!

so she's a bitch and she's angry becuase her child was hurt and she is taking it out on us...my God..what she read on this blog hit home for her..of course she is angry.if my child was raped I'd be a bitch too!


give it up already!

Marissa M. said...

Sarah, Thank you.

Marissa M. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
mpp said...

I think this subject is way too sensitive and should be let go.
No more spewing back and forth on this, please.
I'm not going to label this poster "angry poster" because it does nothing to describe her pain.
And some pot-shots were made to Cali mom.
But now that we KNOW she's upset because it hit her personally, the BS needs to stop.

anonymous1 said...

actually MPP she labeled herself "angry poster" but no matter, I think she isn't going to let it ride and most everyone has gotten their views in here

Anonymous said...

I think we all know that, and I think she was just saying "she" wouldn't refer to her that way.
I don't know why someone would choose to label themselves that way anyway. It's so negative.

Anonymous said...

anonymous 1 at 1102pm..I let it ride last night with my last post at758pm?? Not sure what you are talking about ?

Anonymous said...

How can marissa m. delete her own post? -- 4:24
"removed by author"?

Anonymous said...

When you are registered with blogger, you can delete your own comments, kind of like how when you send an aol email to someone with aol email, you can always UNSEND it.

Anonymous said...

Hmmm. interesting. I wonder why marissa deleted that particular post then. Does anyone remember what it said?
The funny thing is, when a blogger has that kind of power to delete their own posts off someone elses blog, it can really F up a thread, and people can get lost.

Marissa M. said...

It was a double posting because I clicked twice while it was loading. Surely this has happened before to others on here?

Anonymous said...

Wow, cali mom needs a job.

Anonymous said...

Um, marissa ... why so senstive? It was just a question. No need to be so foul.

Marissa M. said...

I'm wasn't being foul.

anonymous1 said...

exactly how was Marissa foul? someone seems intent on starting trouble on here this morning

Anonymous said...

must be the same sick troll who is so anti ISYN. Today she revealed a clue- that she is angry about the press that ISYN has received. So who is she? I think I know.

anonymous1 said...

she seems to be attacking everyone for everything but adds nothing to the blog herself. I wonder if jane knows who it is? probably, my guess. there are so many jealous and vindictive people in the world. be careful, jane.

Marissa M. said...

Why thank you anonymous1, for a moment there I thought I almost thought I was *stoopid* haha we have quite some, dare I say, assholes her today who are just trying to be bitchy for no reason what so ever.

Anonymous said...

Just because someone asked one (or two?) questions 9:38/10:13, they are the same person causing trouble? Where is all the other trouble this morning?
Anyway, who is this "troll" supposed to be, and why would they hate the publicity that Jane's getting?
I know - too many "stoopid" questions, haha.

mpp said...

Anonymous1
I know Jane can pull up IP addresses and if she really needed someone tracked, she could find out who they were. That's why I don't get why some are so ballsy. Wouldn't they be concerned that if they took it too far they could get in a lot of trouble?
The internet is no place to joke around.
Throwing barbs back and forth is one thing, but threatening somebody? .... um, no.

Anonymous said...

.

cali mom said...

MPP, I missed the threats!

9:38 I *have* a job. A very important one.

mpp said...

Cali mom
I was only making reference to the one's made several days ago that Jane erased and to Anonymous1's comment. I didn't catch all of it but heard it was pretty bad.

Anonymous said...

I ran around naked on the beach til i was four. The kids I really feel bad for are the ones with the wet forty lbs diapers. so stupid. so repressed.

Anonymous said...

You forgot "So NOT plastered naked all over the internet."

PS "Try "Lil' Swimmers." They weigh a lot less when wet...and again, they offer your child the added benefit of NOT being plastered naked all over the internet.

Katrina said...

Oh man, this is rich! good to know that there is still no shortage of stupid people raising kids. It's funny that the flamers are so opinionated yet don't have the courage to post under something other than "anonymous." Oh wait, they're probably protecting themselves from all the "bad" people on the internet.

k said...

I don't understand people with nudity hangups. I grew up on the beach showering in an outdoor showers. And after I showered, I was never in any particular hurry to get dressed.

I always did wonder why the other girls didn't like me. And why their mothers started telling me to go shower at home.

t.r. said...

When my sister put bandaids over her 5 year old's nipples when she got naked with a group of children that included 4 boys ages 4,5,5 and 6 and one girl age 2, I'd just swear she drew more attention to the offending nipple. The boys never would have thought anything of her beeing in just shorts along with them. Some people try so hard to be uberamish and stuff that they miss the common sense boat.

misty said...

Sadly, girls today have DDs at 8 years old. Stop feeding your children dairy, but if you do feed them dairy, please make sure that at the park or playground they are always wearing appropriate clothing and adequate support.

Anonymous said...

In a public crowded place, it can be an issue. The innocence of that age can be preserved, however. What about a friend or family's backyard pool? What about your backyard sprinklers? Everyone is going to have their own opinion, but each can decide what is best for them as parents and for their children as children. But it is definitely possible to preserve the innocence without feeling encroached upon.

read it and weep naysayers said...

I saw this. You should read it. It takes OBSERVANT people to realize something is indeed WRONG