Tuesday

Diagnosed with diabetes....

Received Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - Perspective & Opinion
Advice from parents, nannies needed!
I have a wonderful nanny of nearly 2 years. My children adore her. We've a great relationship and I can count on her for everything. My problem. She went for a check-up and discovered she has diabetes. She is overweight but active with my kids. Since I know little about the disease, I looked up information online and am alarmed about leaving my children alone with her now. Since we only discussed it in passing, I did not get the full details, although I know she said she can be managed by a daily pill and weight-loss. When I told my husband, he suggested we look for a new nanny. He says she can't be relied upon anymore because she could pass out at any time. What do you guys think? Is it appropriate to sit down with her and ask involved questions about her diagnosis? Should I request a note from her doctor saying it's OK for her to continue in her position as a nanny to young children? Should I start looking and just give her a generous severance package and bonus? I am at a loss as to what to do.

139 comments:

Anonymous said...

Quite honestly, a HUGE number of people in America have diabetes. And they work in all sorts of jobs--from performing brain surgery, to being a nanny to children. The threat of diabetes is to your nanny's health. High blood sugar has no symptoms and continued high blood sugar can cause damage to her vital organs if left unchecked. But you have a nanny who's very responsible about her own health because she sought medical care and is following through. The only "danger" would be if she was an insulin dependent diabetic and took too much insulin. Then, she could suffer with low blood sugar and disorientation. Still, that's very rare--and most diabetecs (my father is one) know when a sugar low is coming on and "cover it" by taking special glucose tablets. I would absolutely leave your children with a diabetic nanny. I'll be there are thousands of nannies that have diabetes and their employers don't even know it. Your children are in no danger at all. RELAX!

ManhattanMamma said...

A lot of what 9:22 is true but you are right to be concerned about this matter.

You have every right to ask for a doctor's note stating that your nanny is capable of continuing in her job. As much for your protection as hers. I must disagree with the statement that high blood sugar has no symptoms, however. There are many symptoms including, excessive thirst, fatigue, weight-gain or loss and increased urine output. Since you mentioned she is over-weight, she might have an exceptionally high sugar count and until it's regulated by her medicine, she is, in fact, in danger of passing out or becoming so tired after a meal, she could fall asleep. In fact, the only symptom my Aunt had was that she would unexpectedly fall asleep in the late afternoon when her sugar dropped. She attributed it to getting older and slowing down until she fell asleep behind the wheel of her car! Fortunately no one was injured! A heart to heart is advisable in this case. Find out as much as you can before making any decisions.

I'm not sure about the laws in your state, but not many states allow the employer to ask the employee for detailed information about their health, but a lot of the laws don't cover domestic employees anyway so check with your state.

9:22 is right in saying that millions of Americans have diabetes and it doesn't stop them. But I understand you are only concerned about one American in particular right now. She who is responsible for the safety and well-being of your children. And where children are concerned, one can never be too careful. Since you have a good relationship, I suggest opening the lines of communication, your nanny is likely to be relieved that she can open up to you. After you have all the facts, you can make an informed decision with your nanny and perhaps her physician's input. It sounds to me as if your nanny will be able to continue working for you for as long as you need her to. Best wishes to you and your nanny.

Anonymous said...

9:46: You're mixing things up here. You're right that excessive thirst, fatigue, weight-gain or loss and increased urine output are caused by high blood sugar. But your Aunt falling asleep when her sugar dropped is low blood sugar. That's not a symptom of diabetes.

Anonymous said...

This is exactly why you should never be honest with your employer about things like this. See what it gets you/ After years of good loving care, she will end up without a job!

UmassSlytherin said...

I think it's really wrong of your husband to automatically decide that you should fire your nanny due to a medical condition like this that can be managed.

How would you feel if the situation were reversed and you or your husband were fired for having diabetes? Requesting a doctor's note is one thing: I can almost guarentee that the doctor will say she is fine to continue working for you. But at least give your nanny that much respect. If you do not, you may end up with a worse situation.

Just my two cents.

Anonymous said...

Dismiss your Nanny, if you will, but not because of her diabetes. She has type II, and is non-insulin dependent. Her risk of passing out from an overdose of insulin is negligible.

How intransigent is her weight problem? Changes in diet that you could encourage, such as an increase in resistant starches, or excercise, such as a mandatory daily outing requiring walking, could help the diabetic condition improve or even disappear.

If she is very morbidly obese, gastric bypass, even when weight has not yet improved, or is regained,
has been shown to almost immediately have an extremely positive effect on type 2 diabetics. It bypasses a part of the digestive tract involved in secretion of insulin. Insulin sensitivity is often restored, sometimes to normal levels, almost immediately after surgery.

For now, so long asthe diabetes is managed with insulin-sensitivtity increasing drugs only, and your children are being actively attended to, the diabetes should not trigger alarm for the safety of your chldren.

ess said...

Are you and your husband doctors? Do you have any medical training? Did you present this situation to a medical professional, and ask their opinion? I'm not trying to belittle you, but why would you trust online information and uninformed opinions - including those of posters on this site? You probably should ask a real doctor whether a caretaker's diabetes presents a health risk to your children.

And the answer you will get is no. After all, your children's nanny has probably had diabetes for some time. Now that her condition has been detected and managed, the situation is safer than it was before. Your nanny is no longer suffering from an untreated, undiagnosed medical condition. She's under a doctor's care, is taking steps to improve her health, and there's no reason her diabetes compromises the safety of your children.

I hope that you wouldn't terminate an employee because of a "dangerous medical condition" on the basis of a layperson's opinion and information you found on the Internet.

Anonymous said...

She's already been working for you for months--possibly even years--with untreated diabetes. Has she "passed out at any time" up until this point? Of course not! And now that her diabetes being treated, you're going to get rid of her? Even though she's a WONDERFUL nanny. You and your husband are so misguided that it's not even funny! Get her doctor to write a note, if you must. You are badly in need of a reality check.

mom said...

I didn't read all the comments, but a lot of people in my family have diabetes, and I have not known any to pass out. They all have jobs and o not seem ot be affected, other than having ot really watch what they eat, and some take shots.
I would definitely ask her to speak with her doctor about what to expect, and address specifically the issue of passing out if that concerns you. (A parent always has a right to be concerned about anything that makes them nervous.) But my suspicion is that you will be greatly relieved by what you hear from the doctor. and not need ot replace oyur nanny at all.

Anonymous said...

Yes, sit down with her. Talk to her about your concerns and about her concerns. Ask her anything you need to ask her to make her comfortable.

Also, ask her for a note from her Dr. Tell her that it is because you are concerned for her health. If she has a problem with this, then think about letting her go. Also ask to talk to her Dr. about her condition (her Dr. will need her permission).

Just remember, many people with diabetes do not just pass out. She probably has mild diabetes because she just found out and because it can be controlled with diet.

Anonymous said...

I agree that you have very little to worry about if her condition is controlled with pills and diet changes. As a matter of fact the diet changes alone could stop the course of the disease. Diabetes is not a lifelong illness if proper changes are made. Instead of firing her help her make beter choices by limiting the junk in the house and buying things she can eat. It will be best for the entire family anyway.

As for her passing out, that sounds unlikely. If it does happen your children, if old enough, should know waht to do in an emergency anyway. Educate them as you would for any household emergency then trust the nanny to make herself beter through better choices. Giveing her time to get to a gym or allowing her to join on your family membership will help too. Just think she did not have to tell you at all. She was honest so give her some credit for taking control of the situation herself.

Rebecca said...

I could be completely wrong here, but I suspect it may be illegal to fire someone for a medical condition unless you can PROVE it has affected her ability to do her job.

Anonymous said...

first:
is it me or is it weird that there is a banner for type 1 diabetes on the bottom of the screen?

second:
how overweight is your nanny?

Anonymous said...

10:45
The reason her Nanny hasn't passed out yet is because she hasn't started taking insulin yet. Just having Diabetes doesn't make you pass out ... it's the medication.

OP, I don't care what others say, but you have a right to be concerned. You have people here that don't have Diabetes giving you advice. I HAD Diabetes, and took a pill. I watched what I ate, lost weight, and I'm now Diabetes-free.

I passed out quite a few times, especially after I was first diagnosed because I had a difficult time regulating my medication. You have to make sure you time your meals and meds perfectly. If you take medication and don't eat .... down you go.

My opinion, and I'm sorry, but I would look for another Nanny. She's newly diagnosed, and uneducated as yet, and anything could happen. I know posters are going to blast me, but I don't care. These are YOUR kids we're talking about. Give her a nice severence, and send her on her way.

Anonymous said...

One of the things not mentioned is Nanny's age which could be an additional risk factor if she is older. Also, presuming she has type II diabetes, and she is overweight, she could likely have hypertension, high cholesterol and a host of other medical issues when all factored together increase her risk for suffering a serious medical emergency beyond what your family would normally be prepared for. Especially if she exerts herself chasing after kids in high heat. A call to your family doctor with questions is in order. Followed by a frank discussion with your nanny about her over-all health and well-being. You and your husband are right to be concerned. The idea that she likely had this condition when you hired her and therefore should not be an issue now is ludicrous. If your kid was playing with a hornet's nest in a tree the day before and nothing happened would you let them continue to play with the nest once you found out? If you are driving a car that has a defective fuel line for two years and then get a recall notice saying the car might go on fire do you ignore the call for service and continue driving around because the car has been fine all along? of course not! I'm not in any way suggesting you fire this nanny but you do need to get all the facts and then make a decision. Good luck to all involved!

Cant sign my name to this one said...

May I quote you, "I have a wonderful nanny of nearly 2 years. My children adore her. We've a great relationship and I can count on her for everything. ". Focus on that. Don't expect your husband to appreciate that or recognize the significance of that.

Our nanny came to us at age 23. She was chubby, from Iowa and the sweetest gal you could ever meet. She was super with the children but her weight blew up, perhaps because she was so far from home and her friends. It wasn't to the point where she could not to run after the children, but to the point where she looked uncomfortable with herself. It was a sensitive subject, but after she had been with us for 1 year and 3 months, I brought it up. She told me she had struggled with her weight her whole life. She was in tears as she talked about how she felt about herself. My children were then 5 and 7. After a series of conversations, I decided to pay for her to have a bypass. We scheduled it for June so the children could spend some time with their grandmother upstate.

In retrospect, I probably should not have mentioned it to my husband. He was anything but understanding, suggesting that he "get her fat ass on Jenny Craig". Sadly, that is the empathy he was willing to extend to the nanny who took such meticulous care of his children.

OP, don't count on your husband to do the right thing here. I truly believe that heterosexual men are missing crucial brain matter when it comes to empathy, even my own darling husband. ;)

Anonymous said...

Dear can't sign
You're doing an amazing thing for your nanny, and I think you should be commended, but we're talking about Diabetes here. That's serious.
1:04
Excellent post!
OP
I think you should listen to your husband, he's right. My best friend had severe complications and just recently died from it. I'm not saying your nanny is that bad, but she could be if she doesn't take care of herself EXACTLY as she's told by her Dr.
That means taking her medication, eating properly, exercising ... it's a whole lifestyle change. And YOU would have to TRUST her that she would do it!

Liv said...

I have diabetes, and so does my father. He's had it for about thirty years and I was diagnosed three years ago. Neither of us has ever had trouble working because of it. I have been a nanny for about a year now, and I do my job exceptionally well. I have to take an insulin shot, and check my blood sugars throughout the day, but the children and parents have no problem with that. Of course, it will take a little while for your nanny to get used to the new medication and lifestyle change, but it is unlikely that this will cause any huge problems. Please do not jump the gun and fire your wonderful nanny. Remember that this is most likely a very difficult time in her life, and she needs love and support.

**By the way, neither my father nor I have ever passed out from low blood sugars.

Anonymous said...

First off, you haven't said whether or not she has type 1 or type 2. I'm assuming that since she's an adult, she's type 2. Type 2s generally have a partially functioning pancreas, just need a little help usually by the way of an oral medication. Generally type 2s don't have too many complications, but there are a few things you can do to help your nanny and ensure the safety of your children. Ask her to check herself often at work. You will need to help her by test strips becuase each individual strip costs about 75 cents to $1 a piece.

As for passing out, that can be from an extreme low (too much insulin), or an extreme high (too much insulin). Again, frequent testing will help prevent this. Keep small juices and gluco tabs on hand for your nanny. Get the Barbara Davis book to help her and you to understand the disease.

But as a nanny to children who've had this disease (type 1), I'm appalled that you would fire her for her disease. Does this mean those young adults I've cared for in the past will have to further walk through life feeling even more different?

Anonymous said...

Calif nanny here..I know one thing, if you let her go she wont be telling any other families her health history. She trusted you and confided in you and now you are going to use it against her to possibly fire her. Nice... And when she goes to get another job what then...you'll tell her prospective employer you let her go cause she has diabetes? What a can of worms that has opened.

Anonymous said...

liv
3 yrs. and you never passed out? I find that hard to believe. How about got really drowzy, then caught yourself by drinking a juice or taking a glucose tab?

I've never met anyone that didn't at least come close to passing out. And yes, if they have something w/ sugar close by, it will save them. But my dad, sister, husband and father-in-law all have diabetes, and it's happened to every single one of them. My FIL has the worst case, so his is harder to manage, and he's passed out twice in the 3 yrs. he's had it.

erics mom said...

1:14

Maybe you don't understand. But being overweight increases your chance of having diabetes. So getting surgery or going on a diet is great not just for weight loss, but the other ailments that are common with obesity. Diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.

If its type 2 diabetes, and careful with what you eat and keep yourself in a healthy weight range, you usually won't need medication.

Anonymous said...

I'm sorry, but it's silly to have people on this thread that don't have diabetes advising OP.
Only those that have it can really give her the sound advice that she needs.
OP, I would think long and hard about what you're going to do. A person can function properly if they do what they're supposed to, but this is a serious illness, and should not be taken lightly.

I've had diabetes for about 5 yrs. now, and for the most part I'm doing good, but it's really difficult sometimes. I'm in my early 30's with type 2, and my legs/feet hurt (neuropathy). I take good care of myself, but some things are out of my control. I don't know why I hurt so bad sometimes, but it's part of the deal when you have diabetes.
I've also come close to passing out - and it snuck up on me so quick, I didn't know what was happening. I felt confused, dizzy ... thank goodness my girlfriend, who happens to be a nurse, was able to rip open a liquid glucose tube and shove it down my throat. And just as quick as I started to fade out ... within a few minutes, I was my perky self again.

What a devastating disease. Damn.

Anonymous said...

eric's mom
I DO understand, thank you very much. But her nanny doesn't have diabetes. Yes, I know the surgery COULD prevent it, but maybe she would've NEVER had it anyway.
That's like saying every skinny person is anorexic. Well, they're NOT. Only a selected few would have the disease.
We don't pick the disease, it picks us!

UmassSlytherin said...

2:03,
Of course people are in the position to offer her advice. Some of us have close relatives with diabetes.

As some of us have said, she needs to ask a doctor about it, and get a doctor's note from the nanny if she is concerned.

If a doctor says the girl is fine to work, there is no reason for OP to fire her. If she did fire her after a doctor's ok, in my opinion that would be unethical and wrong.

2:03 said...

I get what you're saying Umass, maybe I was being too critical. This post just hit too close to home for me, and I'm not having a good day. Thanks.

Jess said...

Um, I'm pretty sure that would be illegal to fire her for a medical condition, that is, if you pay her legally. And a TREATABLE, CONTROLLABLE condition at that! You should be thankful that she was not diagnosed with something serious like cancer or in need of an organ transplant. Type II Diabetes? Come on. And I'm sure all the information you found on the INTERNET is 100% accurate? I am a nanny that was diagnosed with a high blood sugar type II diabetes-related condition 2 years ago, and I've actually never felt BETTER since I found out and started treatment. I dropped 25 lbs just like that and never had any problems. I know how to control my sugar, and have never felt like I put any of my charges at risk. Both families I worked for have been supportive of this minor condition. I've actually had even more major medical issues than that, and they've been willing to work with me on it. So if you dismiss your nanny b/c of a health diagnosis, that she is not REQUIRED to share with you, then you don't deserve her. Imagine if you had the same diagnosis and told your boss, and then was fired the next day. What would YOUR reaction be???

Anonymous said...

OP- horrible post for someone who has been a great nanny. i ask this, if your parents had diabetes would you disown them or try to help them would you leave them withy your kids also. there are millions of people world wide who have hypertension, diabetes, etc that carry on normal jobs on a daily basis. you oare totally hypocritical for wanting to fire this person who has cared for your kids so well, in your own words, just for having diabetes and the gall of you to want to request a note from her medical doctor because of this. how dare you. i am assuming that you and your entire family are entirely 100 per cent healthy. answer me this, shold one of your kids be diagnose d with an illness and the decision were in the nanny's hand would you be mad if she took it upon herself to quit or would you be saying then they are only kids? in this world we live in now, believe me, everyone has some thing but when we have people like you and your husband for being so ridiculously judgemental and prejudiced, we should all be glad that we are at least ALIVE!

...just my 2 cents

Anonymous said...

Anon 2:03-perhaps you should invest in the sub-cu monitor like the one made by Dexcom or the glucose monitoring watch. Please don't ASSume that because some of us don't have diabetes we don't know what we're talking about.

My guess is if your low blood sugar came up on you quickly you weren't monitoring your food intake, your hormones, your exercise, and your blood sugars very well.

Anonymous said...

You can have your nanny pee on a stick every day. Ketone urine-testing strips, also called Ketostix are small plastic strips that have a little absorptive pad on the end. This will tell you if she is burning ketones. You can have her stick them in the stream of her urine or get a urine sample and dip the stick (reccomended). You can test your employees for drugs and alcohol. This is the source I use for my tests. I am most concerned about marijuana, having lived through an awful experience with a closet stoner nanny.

http://www.drugalcoholtestkits.com/fs_search.asp?urlparams=testdrugs=thc_catid=DRU_typeid=SUB_subtypeid=THC_portalid=GOO_BaseTerm=---urine_test_for_marijuana

Elizabeth said...

I wonder... if you're concerned that she will react adversely to the medication, or need some time to adjust to taking it, why don't you give her a week or two paid time off? I certainly don't think that you should fire her, but this might put your mind at ease.

Liv said...

1:51, I didn't say I never got dizzy. Of course sometimes I get dizzy, or just feel a little out of it. I check my blood sugars often, especially if I'm feeling a little funny. My blood sugars tend to run a little bit higher anyway, so my struggle is usually to keep them down. If you are monitoring your diet, exercise, blood sugars etc. then they shouldn't get so low that you pass out. Of course the nanny will have to learn to keep a close eye on those things, and it will take a bit of a transitional period. The truth is, none of us can say for sure how this will affect the nanny. Everyone's diabetes affects them just a little bit differently. If she is a nanny worth keeping, I think the OP should work with her to take control of HER diabetes.

Anonymous said...

Title I of the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 prohibits private employers, state and local governments, employment agencies and labor unions from discriminating against qualified individuals with disabilities in job application procedures, hiring, firing, advancement, compensation, job training, and other terms, conditions, and privileges of employment. The ADA covers employers with 15 or more employees, including state and local governments. It also applies to employment agencies and to labor organizations. The ADA's nondiscrimination standards also apply to federal sector employees under section 501 of the Rehabilitation Act, as amended, and its implementing rules.

Anonymous said...

Title I of the ADA also covers:

Medical Examinations and Inquiries
Employers may not ask job applicants about the existence, nature, or severity of a disability. Applicants may be asked about their ability to perform specific job functions. A job offer may be conditioned on the results of a medical examination, but only if the examination is required for all entering employees in similar jobs. Medical examinations of employees must be job related and consistent with the employer's business needs.
Drug and Alcohol Abuse
Employees and applicants currently engaging in the illegal use of drugs are not covered by the ADA when an employer acts on the basis of such use. Tests for illegal drugs are not subject to the ADA's restrictions on medical examinations. Employers may hold illegal drug users and alcoholics to the same performance standards as other employees.

Anonymous said...

I hope someone who knows OP's nanny sees this and shows this post to her. I also hope that nanny (like all proper nannies are) is being paid legally, and waits for the proposed firing and sues the living hell out of the OP for discrimination.

I have a friend who has had diabetes since she was a child. If she were to be fired or not hired because of her disease, people would cry discrimination. There is no difference in having a disease your whole life or being diagnosed as an adult. OP, I suggest you reconsider, and perhaps fire your inconsiderate husband?

anyasnew said...

I have to agree with Liv, if you monitor your diet, blood sugar, and eating properly, you should never pass out-even in the beginning stages of adjusting to having diabetes. My husband (type 1), Father (type 2), Mother-in-law (type 2), and Father-in-law (type 2) all have diabetes and none of them have ever passed out! It is entirely possible to monitor your body and prepare for "emergencies" (i.e: low blood sugar/high blood sugar) and keep yourself in check to insure this doesn't happen.

I also have to agree with everyone else, though I'm quite certain she can continue to do her job without any ill effects, just to set your mind at ease I would get a Dr.'s note-and take the time to go over your concerns and questions with the Doctor at this time. I would also sit down and talk to your nanny about your concerns (rather than going behind her back.) Firing someone on the basis of health is a really touchy subject (and even illegal any many areas). This also become an even touchier subject for you, provided you have a wonderful nanny which unfortunately isn't as easy to find as one might originally assume. OP, don't lose a good thing because you are uneducated about a disease that can be easily controlled. Speak with your nanny, schedule an appointment for you AND her to go in and speak to her Doctor, get the "okay" for her to work, and get ALL of your questions answered.

anyasnew said...

p.s: I didn't mean for "uneducated" about this disease to seem derogatory, and I hope it didn't come across that way. :) I hope you will take the time to educate yourself about it, and schedule an appointment for you and your nanny to go in and speak with her Dr.

Anonymous said...

If you are happy with your nanny, from what I have read elsewhere on this site, you should definitely KEEP HER.

You don't mention the ages of your children, but they can be taught what to do to keep themselves safe if there is an emergency (such as dialing 911--both of my kids learned this as young as two).

Kudos for seeking out further information! Since your children's safety is at stake, it would be appropriate to ask for a medical clearance that she's safe to be around the kids. You can help her manage just by being conscious of the environment she's in--this will ultimately help her manage her diabetes and keep your children safe, since your nanny will be less at risk of a crisis if her diabetes are under control. Things like not buying junk food and active activities for the kiddos are easy and cheap to do.

Best of luck! Remember, she didn't have to tell you, but she did. I hope you have the same consideration for her.

Nanny B said...

I think you should look at this from a positive angle. You know she has this condition, you think she is a wonderful nanny, so why put yourself though such a hard time of searching for another great nanny. Why don't you sit down with her, find out what you can about this condition and how you can help her. Maybe since she just found out she doesn't know all the facts either and is a little scared at the possiblility of being a diabetic the rest of her life. If you really want to help, maybe offer her a nutrition class to attend to learn how to best manage her diet, offer to stock the fridge with fruit and vegetables. Teach your children that by eating healthy they can avoid this in their future. In fact, make a positive change for your whole family. Offer to give her a raise when the time comes to help cover the dr expenses as they will certainly rise now. Be proactive in her quest for finding out information. But also be serious and tell her that you can not watch her condition worsen because she chooses to make bad choices. If she knows she has to loose weight and yet continues to scarf down ding dongs in front of you, then obviously she is not serious about maintaining her health. Make sure you both have researched and talked to drs to find out all you can and how it will now affect hers/and yours life.

Jenna said...

Good advice Nanny B! If you support your nanny, and help her to find out the best possible ways to get healthy you can benefit your whole family! My mom was diagnosed with diabetes 2 years ago, and is now diabetes free. She lost weight through change in diet, a positive atmosphere, and exercise....it's entirely possible with support!

Anonymous said...

The law above states that it applies to companies with 15 employees or more. OP cannot be sued using the ADA.

Anonymous said...

Oh hell,
everyone knows that domestic workers have no rights. No rights at all. You can spit on your domestic workers, make them dress in high heeled clown suits and have them work 68 hours a week and sleep in a cardboard box. Domestic workers have no rights. In NY, a work at will state, domestic workers have less than nothing. You can be fired for being fat, smelling like toothpaste or having grey hair. No rights. none at all.

Anonymous said...

I know that dizzy spells and passing out are normal when getting your insulin under control. If she is newly diagnosed like someone above stated then she will have a period of time getting adjusted to the meds and eating properly. I would ask her to phone her physician and conference you and your husband in on the call. Truly only a doctor can tell you what the situation is and how her health will be affected in the first 6 months of taking this medication. Please be kind to her, I'm sure this is a shock for her and she will need emotional time to get used to this. Your husband sounds very abrupt about this matter, that will hurt a good nanny who has been good to your family. Your first priority is your children of course so just speak to nanny's doctor and find out the real facts about her condition because no matter what advice you get here or online everyone reacts to diabetes medication differently.

Anonymous said...

7:48
Grow up.

Anonymous said...

7:48 Hilary?
is that you?

O.P. said...

Ok first of all, I never said I would fire her, I said my husband thought we should and that was all. It was one from a list of my options which any employer has.

I spoke with my doctor, after reading the many worthwhile comments and suggestions here. They in turn allowed me to pose a variety of questions I hadn't thought of. I got a lot of good information. This is the most difficult time, as she is newly diagnosed with type 2 and changes in eating habits along with starting medications could cause her to pass out, become extremely dizzy or fall asleep abruptly as her sugar levels rise and fall. Whoever said low blood sugar is not associated with diabetes is severely misinformed, when you take medicine to control it, that medicine causes sugar levels to drop significantly. If you are not eating properly you can pass out or become disoriented.

Feel free to show this post to any nanny you wish in hopes mine sees it as I plan to have dinner with her tomorrow night and discuss her health in detail and how my family can help her. I am hoping she will be forthcoming and allow me to speak with her doctor. After speaking with my doctor, and reading the suggestion here, I plan to give her six weeks off at 80 percent pay and giving her gas stipend as usual. This way she can take time to rest and get herself on track with her new lifestyle and medication schedule. Pending clearance from her doctor, she can return to work after 6 weeks.

While I feel great loyalty towards this dear nanny, my primary concern is the safety of my children, the youngest is 2. Of course I would not disown my family or children if they had this or any other disease. However this lady, although dear to me, is an employee, not my parents or my child so there is no point in making these comparisons.

I thank those of you who cared enough to offer useful and well-meaning advice. Hopefully, it will all work out well and every one will end up happy! I will keep you guys posted!

Rebecca said...

OP, I think that's a truly lovely way to handle things. Of course you should care about your children above all else, but it's so great to see an employer who cares enough about keeping a good nanny to really try to make it work. This is great.

Anonymous said...

OP - are your kids old enough to know how to call for help? Could they call 911 if the Nanny had a medical emergency? If so, then I really don't think it is worth letting her go over.

Anonymous said...

9:46 - Good point. My friend is epileptic. She has only had 4 seizures in her life. But her children all know how to call 911 if they needed to, though I am sure they would be scared.

marypoppin'pills said...

OP
What an amazing and supportive way of handling this. I'm sure that as your Nanny takes this time to adjust to lifestyle changes, you will be going through some of your own without her there.
Keep in close touch with your Nanny so that you will know how she's progressing.
Good luck!

Anonymous said...

Depending on which state you live in, you can be sued for firing someone based on their health status, unless their status directly endangers you or your children (which diabetes does not...it's not contagious).
Be grateful YOUR pancreas is in good working order, and be compassionate toward your diabetic nanny. She's got enough on her hands with her new diagnosis...don't make things harder for her.
And by the way...do you provide her with any health insurance?
If not, you SHOULD!

Anonymous said...

12:19 if ignorance is bliss you must be one of the most euphoric people alive!

Anonymous said...

Hahaha!

Anonymous said...

I wonder how many people have diabetes and don't know it? Especially, people that are not insured......
I am thinking of the uninsured nannies. Lets face it how many nanny jobs offer coverage.

cali mom said...

Dear busy troll at 12:26: your point was?

nanny4hire2006 said...

I have had type 2 for the last 7 yrs. I first got gestional diabetes when I was pregnant w/ my 7 yr old. Then it went to full blown. the only time I have taken meds(insulin) was when I was pregnant. Since then I watch what I eat and Im in control of it. I also have been a nanny for the last 6 years. No one knows I am a diabetic since i chose not too tell anyone. why, because its under control. Me watching what I eat has no bearing on how I take care of a child. I watch my carb intake(pasta, rice, potatoes, bread)watch my sugar intake(soda, juice)and drink lots of water. I also test 3 times a day and my sugar is always normal. I test before work, when the child would nap and at night. This shouldnt change how she takes care of ur child. and imo a good nanny is very hard to fine. If your happy w/ her, keep her. If anything, maybe she will let u go w/ her to her next appointment so u can voice ur concerns to her dr and he can put ur mind at ease that it shouldnt be a problem...

Anonymous said...

12:26

do not drink and post.

BusyTroll said...

Dear Calimom,

My point was in response to 12:19's blissfully ignorant post

Here let me spell it out for you

12;19 said
"Depending on which state you live in, you can be sued for firing someone based on their health status,"

I don't know of a single law that protects a single domestic employee. Perhaps 12:19 can enlighten us as to where this law can be foubnd so nannies in that state may rejoice!"

"unless their status directly endangers you or your children (which diabetes does not...it's not contagious)."

Acutally depending on how well controlled the diabetes it could directly impact the children and nanny's well-being. 12:10 would have known this had they botherd to read the OPs update 4 posts above. Alas, since 12:19 didn't bother to do so it rendered the whole post MOOT anyway!

12:19 said
"Be grateful YOUR pancreas is in good working order, and be compassionate toward your diabetic nanny. She's got enough on her hands with her new diagnosis...don't make things harder for her."

12:10 would have known this had they botherd to read the OPs update 4 posts above. Alas, since 12:19 didn't bother to do so it rendered the whole post MOOT anyway!

Anonymous said...

1AM

got a life?

Anonymous said...

Of course it's illegal (immoral and just plain lousy) to fire anyone based on the fact that they have diabetes.

If the OP fires her nanny, I hope the nanny sues the crap out of her.

And 1 oclock needs to get to an AA meeting.

Anonymous said...

As a nanny employer in NYC, I can tell you that it is most definitely not illegal to fire your nanny for having diabetes. It may be immoral. It may be repugnant but it is not illegal. You can fire ANYONE for ANYTHING and so long as you are still working YOU HAVE TO PUT UP WITH WHATEVER THEY DISH OUT. Do you seriously think some scantily clad, mutant nanny with 7 strands of platinum blonde hair and an overbite will stand the chance against her wealthy employer in court, should it come to that? No. Nannies never, ever, ever win.

Sorry.

whatever said...

Even if the OP is going to have a sit-down dinner discussion with the nanny and give her time off to "regroup" or whatever, it still sounds like she might fire her eventually since she's just an "employee".

Whatever. Shame on anyone who has the misfortune of imperfect health.
How dare they!?!

Anonymous said...

1:11

I'm a nanny. I was unjustly "dismissed" (FIRED) from my job.
I sued my wealthy employer.
I won.
Incidentally, I am a non-mutant, very straight teeth, have a full head of hair and am never scantilly-clad. Except at the beach.

cali mom said...

Hey MPP, here's that rich bitch again who thought she was better educated than you!

Anonymous said...

anon @ 1:11-
not in NY you did not.
NY is an employment at will state.

Anonymous said...

I'm the nanny who sued and won.

I do not live in NY.

BusyTroll said...

I think OP is going above and beyond for her nanny. Have any of you talking about the nanny being fired read Op's update? Can you read?

OP is going to ask the nanny to discuss her condition candidly, which I take to mean to make sure the nanny doesn't have other health concerns in addition to the diabetes, which is a worthwhile concern.

OP is going to be giving her nanny 6 weeks off paid at 80 percent of the nanny's payroll, that is the maximum any state disability payment would allow. AND OP is going to continue paying her nanny's gasoline stipend for those 6 weeks. TTD would not warrant this nanny state approved temp disability so nanny would be SOL if OP wasn't a caring employer.

OP wants to help nanny get well, just asks that nanny be upfront and get medical clearance. A wise move since allowing the nanny to work under stressful conditions if she has other related illnesses might cause nanny to suffer a heart attack or stroke. Also, now that OP knows nanny has TTD, could possibly open OP up for a lawsuit should nanny suffer a medical emergency directly related to job.

WTF is you people's problem, on here? And and 1:03 you're here too so you musn't have much of a life either!

Anonymous said...

Yes, there are 49 other states besides NY. Contrary to what most New Yorkers believe, New York is not the center of the universe.

Thank god.

Anonymous said...

I think people are sensitive and passionate about the health issue because there's such a disasterous situation for so many people regarding health insurance and health care in America.

People get sick and sometimes lose everything. Their jobs, their dignity and their savings.

Glad the OP is doing her best for her nanny. That's a step in the right direction.

BusyTroll said...

Actually, most states are employ at will. All 50 adhere to the doctrine to some degree. There are a few that are exceptions or have some differences but for the most part, employees have few rights. Lawsuits are won when employers say too much. In NJ, an employer can fire you for no reason what so ever. In fact, that's the best way to do it. Walk in and tell your employees it's not working out, you're fired. Offer no explanation and it's almost impossible to be sued.

Anonymous said...

^^^but fire your nanny after you tell her she doesn't "represent the social structure" you want for your children "because" she's "Mexican", and your ass is sued!

Anonymous said...

Yep.

"Most" states.

Not "all".

Anonymous said...

Another reason why N.J. sucks!

cali mom said...

California is also an at-will employment state but that doesn't meann employers are free to discriminate in ways that are specifially forbidden by law. Religion, race, ethnic background, pregnancy, medical ccondition, gender, etc.

So if you've been at your job for years and got glowing reviews and everything has been going swimmingly all along and suddenly, 2 weeks after you refuse your employer's sexual advances, announce your pregnancy or your medical diagnosis, you are let go, you CAN sue and it will be up to the jury whether you win or not, no matter how much your former employer likes her hairdresser and her dentist.

cali mom said...

Sorry, I just saw that it was Sprak and not MPP that 1:11 was tossing her expensive little curls at yesterday.

LindaLou said...

wow. some of you are real @$$holes... I have type 1.5 diabetes. I've never *passed out.* on occasion, my blood sugar has gotten too low and i've felt ill and had to quickly eat something. now i have a subQ monitor and am alerted if my blood sugar gets too low. being diabetic has never stopped me from working or carring for my three children. i can't believe that some are so lacking in compassion. if you jerks think you're somehow immune from getting a chronic and/or life threatening condition suddenly, you're delusional. i hope your bosses fire you for it!

LindaLou said...

oh, and to the original poster: what if your nanny doesn't want to be forced to take a 20% pay cut for six weeks just because you say so? what if she can't afford it? the decision as to whether or not she's disabled from working is between your nanny and her doctor. i can't believe that you think you have any sort of right to pry in to her medical status or speaj to her doctor. that information is private and it's none of your business. i'll bet she'll live to regret the day she ever shared that information with you. oh, and your husband sounds like a jackhole. that's chronic. maybe someone should fire him. i'm so disgusted...

Roll top desk said...

I know people with this disease. I think that if the nanny helped you so far, you can not just drop her, it wouldn't be fair, in my opinion. She has all the interest to keep her job and her health so I think from this point of view you can rely on her.

just anonymous said...

If you have these concerns w/ your employee then why are you posting them online to us instead of addressing her? These are honest concerns and I'm sure she knows the answers. She was truthful in telling you, now be truthful in talking w/ her. I can't believe you are even considering letting her go. I hope she finds this blog and sees your post and quits today so you're left high-and-dry.
Your post makes me sick. She has been a great and faithful nanny and you and your DH have no issues with throwing her under the bus. What lesson do you think that would teach your children?

ManhattanMamma said...

OP despite the morons who obviously have trouble with reading comprehension, as Busy Troll pointed out, you are definitely doing the right thing.

10 years ago I worked as an office manager in a small family owned business where all the employees were treated like family.

One of the mechanics who worked in the shop area became ill at work and to make a long story short, was diagnosed with a heart condition. I advised my bosses to obtain a doctor's note clearing him not only to return to work but to specify if he would be able to continue in his previous capacity there. they declined saying they didn't want to seem harsh.

About a year after he returned he was delivering some parts and suffered a heart attack. While still in hospital, he obtained a lawyer and sued for a ridiculous amount on the grounds that the employers NEVER GOT PROPER MEDICAL CLEARANCE FOR HIM TO RETURN TO WORK!!!! There's gratitude for you. As the trial started to look like it was going south for my bosses they decided on an 11th hour settlement on their lawyer's advice. The decision ultimately cost several people in the business their jobs as the amount paid out took a permanent toll on the business.

Oh and Linda Lou, Please explain what type 1.5 diabetes is, I never heard of it and can find no information on it. Also, I don't know what OP pays her nanny but from the sound of her posts I'm sure it's a living wage and 80 percent is the absolute maximum State Disability pays out, so add the gas stipend Nanny is still getting and she's doing pretty good. Oh and my Brother-in Law who has good old fashioned Type 2 passed out quite a few times during the first month of his diagnosis. Getting his body in Sync with his meds proved challenging but he is fine now.

LL is right about one thing though, in a way. HIPPA dictates that your nannies health is her business alone so tread delicately as you approach her on this subject. However, you ARE allowed to approach the subject if her health could adversely effect her job performance or cause injury to herself or others.

Anonymous said...

Manhattanmamma
Thank you for an interesting post!

onenannysvoice said...

OP, as a professional nanny who happens to have Diabetes 2, I think you are being very reasonable.

When I was diagnosed 5 years ago, I had a horrible time adjusting to my medicine. The first made me very ill and dropped my sugar so low, I passed out in a Sears. When I came to the in the ER, my sugar was in the high 30's. Even though I had spoken at length with my doctor and read books, I never imagined I could have such an extreme reaction because everyone said that sort of thing was extremely rare. It took almost three months to find a mixture of medicine that agreed with me and regulated my blood sugar properly. Everyone is different and will react differently to the disease an it's treatment. It is wrong and irresponsible for people to make declarations as to this particular nannies situation and what will or won't happen because not even her doctor can predict that with 100% accuracy.

Also I would like to ask why is it some people confuse us nannies with God? While I agree, if deserved, we should get a fair wage, respect, consideration and dare I say it love, I can't see any professional nanny expecting to be put above or even equal to the needs and well-being of his/her employers children. We are employees, and as such deserve proper treatment-not hero-worship. We should also be adults and as such realize that sometimes life may not treat us fairly and so we must move on.

In my opinion, the latter is definitely not the case with this nanny. Her employer is being more than agreeable and generous. If, down the line, for whatever reason, this employer feels the nanny must be released, then that's life. So long as ample notice is given and a generous severance package is offered, this nanny must accept the cards she is dealt and move on. Just as her employer would have to deal with it if the nanny decides she needs to move on in the future. Their relationship is that of employer/emploeee no matter how well they get along. For OP to state that directly is simply the fact of the matter and not a negative reflection on OP.

Thanks for reading.

Anonymous said...

This world is freaking sue-happy. OP protect yourself well. Talk to an attorney in addition tot he doctors. MMs story made me sick.
And I have my own to share.

My uncle served in WW2 where he met his lifelong best friend. They remained close, learning they lived only 2 towns away all their lives.

At 75, his best friend passed away, leaving his widow who didn't; drive with no way to do her weekly shopping or get to the cemetery to visit the grave. My uncle, kind soul, offered to help and every Saturday for over a year drove to her home picked her up, took her shopping, and to the grave then back home. Never asked for or was offered a dime as the widow was of limited means.

The widow refused to wear her seatbelt saying it was uncomfortable and my uncle foolishly allowed her not to. One afternoon they got into a mild fender bender. Uncle bump tapped the car in front coming off a red light. The driver of the car in front saw there was no damage so they went their separate ways. The widow had bumped her head causing a small bruise. My uncle wanted her to go to the doctor, but she refused stating she was fine.

3 days later, widow's son calls saying his mother needs a cat scan, MRI and a host of other tests the ambulance chasing lawyer he hired suggested. My uncle got fined for leaving the scene of an accident with injuries without filing a police report and his insurance settled for about 22 thousand dollars causing his rates to skyrocket. No good deed goes unpunished.

mpp said...

Cali
Yeah. I was going to say I didn't remember anyone telling me that they were better than me ... at least not recently.
;)

9:54
Unbelievable story. I'm sorry that happened to your Uncle, but I hope that didn't jade him from being the kind and giving person that he is.

Anonymous said...

Calimom

I am the rich bitch and had not actually posted here yet but thanks for the credit!

LindaLou said...

1.5 is adult onset *juvenile* diabetes.

http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_types/diabetes_type_15.php

Anonymous said...

link does not work, lindalou.

LindaLou said...

http://www.diabetesnet.com/diabetes_types/diabetes_type_15.php

Anonymous said...

are you checking this link after you post it here? it's not working. It says "error - page not found"
too bad, would've liked to read what you had.

spongebob rules said...

Post it like this. Put URL under name (moniker) so we can see the page.

LindaLou said...

just enter diabetes and 1.5 in to your search engine and thousands of hits come up. i don't know why the link doesn't show properly. it looks correct before i post it. i don't undertsand the comments of the person who *couldn't find any information* on it anyway. it's not that uncommon.

LindaLou said...

does this work?

Anonymous said...

thanks lindalou!

OriginalPoster said...

I had a talk with my nanny over dinner and it seems I have opened Pandora's box.

I learned she is on 2 oral medications for diabetes, Januvia and Glimmiporide, Lipitor For cholesterol and takes Azalopram (zanac) For panic disorder! She admitted she began having panic attacks about 8 months ago and feels the need to run out of places. She says she has it under control. She also admitted to falling asleep in the afternoon during TV time, a thought I do not relish as my youngest is only 2 and could be getting into all sorts of mischief. I really hate the thought of letting her go but this panic disorder thing and dozing on the job really has me worried now.

Anonymous said...

OP,
Close Pandora's box by terminating with a reference letter reflecting previous to this discovery. When you let her go, be careful what you say. Be as generous as you possibly can with her. It doesn't make you a bad person to let her go. I am sorry but if you don't have to take that chance, why would you? We take enough chances as it is.

LindaLou said...

it doesn't make her a *bad person*? are you kidding me? it makes her a person who is intentionally and knowingly breaking the law. and it's all documented right here.

i hope karma (or a really large lawsuit), hit you right where it hurts.

marypoppin'pills said...

You are certainly in a tight spot. Your Nanny felt comfortable enough to disclose details of her health that would have most Parents terminate her. I don't think I would feel safe having my child under your Nannies care, especially if she's falling asleep on the job? That is really serious. Not to mention she's taking an anti-anxiety med. to boot?
Xanax is a pretty heavy Narcotic/Tranquilizer.
I'm curious about what your Husband has to say now?
He must be having a royal fit.

manhattanmamma said...

LindaLou, I am trying to contain myself now and not be harsh.
You are correct in the fact that it's all documented right here. Op would have no trouble defeating any frivolous lawsuit once she produces the fact that the nanny is sleeping on the job! I know it's hard to see, but actually OP might be helping nanny out and preventing her from civil or criminal liability by letting her go. If something happens to the baby while nanny is sleeping or panicking, nanny could face legal
issues.

OP you have a very difficult choice to make and one that cannot be made quickly. Now more than ever your plan of paid leave is an excellent idea while you decide what's best for your children, they are your main concern. Not your nanny and not your husband.

Best wishes.

LindaLou said...

imo, what's documented right here is the fact that she's been fishing for a reason to terminate the nanny ever since she discovered that she's not in perfect health. it's illegal. i don't think the fact that the nanny fell asleep one time in two years during *tv time* is that big of a deal. of course, i fall asleep while nursing my son down for his nap about 50% of the time. yes, i know i'm the parent and not the nanny... i just feel badly for the nanny because she obviously TRUSTS this woman and is being completely honest and upfront and now she's going to be fired because of it. it's a creepy way to treat someone.

Metronanny said...

OP, please ignore LindaLunatic. She suffers Talkouttaherassitis.

You are in a mess, because it's clear you care about this woman. I got the impression she falls asleep more than once and you are correct in worrying about what your toddler can get into while nanny is napping.

Your nanny isn't a bad person, but her lifestyle choices (you said she is overweight) Have brought her to the place she is now.

You are not a bad person. You hired a woman who now suffers from several medical issues. You are worried for your children.

Since your nanny has been up front with you be up front with her. Express all your concerns and the fact that sleeping on the job is not permitted. As far as I know, no one is to be paid to sleep unless they are part of some research study. I think nothing less than a conference with her doctor is in order, and perhaps checking up on her from time to time. if you choose to keep her. If not, try not to feel to badly about your decision. You have to think of your children. Good luck.

mom said...

OP, I feel really bad for you...and for your nanny too.

What a terrible position you are now in. I can tell that you really like your nanny and would like to do everything possible to make this an easier time for her instead of harder. I can also tell that you have some valid concerns about what may happen to your children should she fall asleep or have a medical emergency while you are away. It might be one thing if your youngest was five and could be trained to call 911...but a two year old is a whole different matter.

What really hurts my heart about this is (and I'm sure yours as well, because you do sound compassionate) is that she trusts you enough to have willingly told you all of the things about herself that may lead to her own termination. Makes me want to cry thinking about it...and yet there is the two year old to consider....

Maybe within the time you have given her off she can get regulated well enough to be considered reliable again? And maybe the excessve fatigue is related to the diabetes and will clear up when she is correctly controlling it? And maybe the anxiety is also tied to it? Maybe that will go away too. Sometimes one thing wrong triggers a whole bunch of other things..and when the person finally gets treated for the core issue the others take care of themselves.
I was recently diagnosed with asthma. Lo and behold, once I got treatemnt for that, what I had assumesd to be an excessive sweating problem and and excessive fatigue problem "magically" disappeared. Because I was chronically working so hard to breathe and not even realizing it, I was perpetually sweating...and exhausted.

I love the idea of talking with her doctor...with her along or with her permission...and discussing frankly the issues that concern you...passing out, or falling asleep, and everything else that could possibly endanger your kids. Make sure she knows how much you value her and how far you are willing to go to make this work out for her to keep working with you. She should also understand your concerns about your kids. What about one of those life alert necklaces for her? Or some kind of device that alerts the hospital or doctor in an emergency. Do they have that for diabetes?

amy said...

I've been diabetic since I had my child. I am not now nor have I ever been overweight or inactive.

I resent this,
"Your nanny isn't a bad person, but her lifestyle choices (you said she is overweight) Have brought her to the place she is now."

Anonymous said...

Amy, please. This nanny has issues that are clearly not helping, and have probably caused most of her medical issues. Find something worthwhile to resent.

Anonymous said...

I am fat and I have type2 Diabetes and have hypertension. My lifestyle choices have contributed greatly to my present medical condition. The truth doesn't offend me. I have always been very active but I love to eat.

It took a while to get it together on my meds and adjust my eating habits. It takes time to unlearn bad habits and adobt better ones.

Amy, you likely had gestational diabetes when you were pregant and are dealing with the rare instance that it doesn't correct itself once the pregancy is over and your body resets itself. You shouldn;t rent what Metronanny said, I don't think it was insulting. This nanny in questions suffers from similar issues as myself because we are fat. I would bet money that if this nanny were thinner she wouldn't have these problems. I know I wouldn't.

O.P. said...

I spoke with nanny this afternoon and put her on 10 weeks leave immediately. She doesn't feel comfortable letting me talk to her doctor and I respect that. She said she needs to think it over (letting me speak to her doctor) and I told her I respect that as well. She will be getting 80 percent pay and 100.00 per week gas allowance. I am aware that she may attempt a law suit (I hope it doesn't come to that) And I checked with my attorney. She can show anyone she likes this blog and it won't matter, she hasn't a leg to stand on. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to that.

I came home early today and let myself in through the back door. I found her sound asleep on my sofa. My older children were watching television and my 2 year old was running around upstairs
(the safety gate was not latched across the stairs)

My nanny started crying and said she simply cannot keep her eyes open around 2:00 PM. I feel badly for her but my baby could have taken a nasty fall. She agrees.

So both of us will take this time to evaluate the situation and see where to take it from here. If I can't speak with her doctor (With nanny present of course) I will likely terminate her employment. I plan to work from home as I do most summers and will have family pitch in on days I must go to the office. If we decide to terminate her or she decides to resign, I plan to give her 6 months pay plus a monetary gift for her loyal service. I will also consider keeping her on part-time for those 6 months to get the kids used to her not being around. This will be paid separately as she will get her 6 months severance pay regardless. Of course, I will give her a good reference and help her find new employment anyway I can.

I am still hoping we can find another solution because she has been a God-send to our family for so long, I truly can't imagine life without her. Thank you all for the great advice.

mpp said...

What a sad turn of events. But if you came home early and caught her sleeping, she needed to be let go. (I wish every Parent would do the surprise check-in once in awhile. If you're a good Nanny, you have nothing to hide)
I don't see how she could sue. You haven't technically "terminated" her, and you actually have grounds to do so! Your children were left unattended and could have been injured.
I think you have been more than generous. I hope she appreciates the time off you've given her, and gets her health together.
(I thought asking to see her Dr. was reaching ... I don't know many people that would consent to that, even those that have nothing to hide)

Keep us posted. Good luck ... and I'm glad you get to spend extra time with your kids! ☺

nashville nanny said...

as usual, i agree with mpp on all fronts here.

the children were in danger. she is exhausted. it is time for you guys to work out a new plan.

you are going above and beyond as far as finances are concerned. i commend you for showing your nanny how much you value her.

LindaLou said...

yes, metronanny, i'm such a *lunatic* because i don't believe in kicking people when they're down. @@.

Anonymous said...

lindalou
sorry, but what does @@ mean? you do it all the time.

LindaLou said...

@@ = eye roll

i just thought of another thing, OP, do you carry the nanny's medical insurance? How will she be able to afford care now that she's sick if she's unemployed and without insurance?

and what's going to be next? this woman started out as the perfect nanny but since you made your mind up to get rid of her, she's conveniently come up with a number of alleged faults. what will you post tomorrow: that you came home early and caught the nanny smoking crack in the laundry room?

uh. huh.

Anonymous said...

LindaLou what is YOUR solution?
Oh wise one, should OP keep the nanny and put her toddler in danger?
OP is in a tight position, as the nanny confided in her but the very information that was shared gave OP pause to reconsider the person she was employing. It's a sad state of affairs but it is what it is. OP updated us when she had her candid talk with her nanny and did the next logical thing. The nanny admitted to having issues and OP went to check up to see if they really were under control as the nanny claimed. Ok, so the nanny wasn't having a panic attack, which is what she said is under control, but the nanny was asleep and neglecting the 2 year old. How is the OP supposed to handle this situation? Should she keep the nanny and continue paying her and going to work like nothing is wrong and HOPE something bad doesn't happen while the nanny is asleep? OP is doing the absolute best any person in her position could do. She is giving the nanny PAID time off to get things together and do the right thing. If this nanny needs her job badly enough, and has the nothing else to hide, she will let OP talk to the doctor and have him/her disclose the true nature of the nannies health condition. Given the job required and the ills this nanny has, requesting to talk with her doctor, though unusual in most cases, is warranted here.

Give OP a little credit will you! She could have just fired this nanny with no explanation, no warning and no compensation. She certainly has grounds to do so!

Anonymous said...

You would think I of all people would have sympathy for this nanny. I have been in her shoes.
In my first nanny job, I had been there for almost a year. I ran into a health issue that required medication. I informed the parents because I needed a day off for a very important Dr. appt., so they knew what was going on and seemed cool about it. They really were nice people.
Anyway, I really thought I'd be alright, and went about my business.
Evidently I was wrong. I had a 2 yr. old under my care and late one evening we snuggled up on the couch to read a book. The kid fell asleep, and unfortunately, so did I.
Next thing I know, the dad walks through the door and I abrupty wake up. I immediately go to look for the little boy, and I found him in the library ... ripping to shreds his dad's very expensive shelf of books -- happily ripping out the pages, one by one. I was horrified, and I could tell by the look on the dad's face that I'd better exit stage left ... and quickly!
I got a call later that night letting me go.
Can't say that I blame him.

mom said...

Again people. we crucify moms here for leaving their children in potentially unsafe nanny situations. And we are now crucifying this mom for NOT leaving her child in a potentially unsafe nanny situation?

This is terribly sad for the nanny. We all agree on that, most of all OP. But there is a two year old involved, which ties mom's hands as far as options if she wants to be ceratin her child is in safe hands. It's just not a risk worth taking. By the way, it sound slike nanny agreed too, upon being found aslepp and the toddler running amok, upstairs, with the gate unlatched. Even if the gate was latched...two years olds have been known to drown in toilets...and die in any number of unforseen household accidents. Sleeping when one that age is on the loose is 100% intolerale.

Anonymous said...

ever since OP came back with an update, the only poster to rebut has been lindalou.
i'm curious if there are others that think this nanny should stay on?

oops said...

She DOES have a leg to stand on and then some. She WILL sue you and I'm sure she will have no trouble finding a lawyer who will be more than happy to add his fee to suit that YOU will pay in the end. I sued my former employer IN NY for a similar reason, $78,000 richer- thanks. You my dear, are screwed. I don't give a hoot if you call me "sue happy" because you're right, I am MORE than HAPPY to sue your ass for whatever reson I feel like- if I was so wrong- why did I win? RIGHT. Let us know when you get served OP.

oops said...

She DOES have a leg to stand on and then some. She WILL sue you and I'm sure she will have no trouble finding a lawyer who will be more than happy to add his fee to suit that YOU will pay in the end. I sued my former employer IN NY for a similar reason, $78,000 richer- thanks. You my dear, are screwed. I don't give a hoot if you call me "sue happy" because you're right, I am MORE than HAPPY to sue your ass for whatever reson I feel like- if I was so wrong- why did I win? RIGHT. Let us know when you get served OP.

mom said...

5:19, did you win or settle out of court?

Of course nanny can sue. Any idiot can file a lawsuit. Just look at all the idiotic prisoner lawsuits winding their way through our already congested court system. Sometimes the wrong side wins too...which is why sometimes totally innocent people settle even though they know they are in the right, just to avoid the possibility...and all of the legal fees. Stinks eh?

But I think there is a lot of wiggle room in letting a household employee go. Most of the employment laws apply to companies with over a certain number of employees, so I believe that unless you are firing your nanny because she won't have sex with you, complains when you beat her, or some other outrageous illegal situation, she's probably not going to have much of a case. (I think anyway. I'm not a lawyer. But OP has already checked with a lawyer who assures her she is in the clear...and he's probably more knowledgeable that a bunch of moms and nannies on the internet!)Besides, nanny was asleep when she came home the other day, with baby running unattended in a dangerous situation. That alone is more than enough cause.

Quit picking on OP. I am sick thinking about this nanny too, but as horrible as i feel for her, I would not leave my baby with her as things stand right now. Tragically, sometimes you don't get a second chance when you are negligent with your child's safety. As much as this whole situation stinks, I'd rather hear that nanny was sad than come on here one day to read that OP's two year old is dead.

mom said...

OH, and another thing. Didn't OP say she is giving nanny several months of severance pay? OP are you giving this up front, or monthly for the six months?

Because if you pay it monthly, nanny will likely not want to sue you while she is still on your payroll, because, unless you put it in writing, you are not required to give her this much severance and so could easily stop at any time. She probably wouldn't want to risk that gravy train on a longshot lawsuit. And if she waits six months to file a lawsuit, that is going to look suspicious, I would think, and hurt her case...making her simply look money hungry and like she is trying to work the entire situation to her advantage.

But then again, maybe this nanny is a really nice person who realizes she should not be caring for children during this time and will actually be very grateful to OP for such a nice severance package and not sue her at all. After all, not EVERYBODY is a money grubbing creep.

mpp said...

I love both posts, Mom.
Great job! ☺

UmassSlytherin said...

I too enjoy reading mom's posts.

OP, your situation is indeed a difficult one. I'm sorry this is happening to you.

But it is no longer, in my opinion, about diabetes: your children were unattended due to the nanny being asleep. This is simply unacceptable, especially with a toddler in the house.

Document everything. If she is not providing you with a doctor's note, (don't see the need for you to directly speak with her doctor, a physical form with signiature should be sufficient) then you have no obligation to her.

Yes, it is too bad for her. But you have to put your kids first. Toddlers can NEVER be left unattended. It's a safety hazard.

Good luck and keep us posted!

chick said...

OP, this is a horrid situation for you and your nanny. I feel for you both! That said, I think you are making the best possible decisions for yourself and your kids.

If nanny is falling asleep at 2 pm, she may be having a serious blood sugar drop after eating lunch, especially if she is taking in too many carbs. Someone newly DX with type II diabetes is likely to have that sort of issue while trying to get their meds regulated. This is a situation that may pass as nanny becomes more familiar with her disease and the way her body responds to meds and foods.

Just out of curiousity, how old are your older kids? Were they sitting there watching TV with sleeping nanny, or were they in another room? And why was your 2 yo upstairs *not* napping? No criticism intended, I just know the kids I've cared for have generally been napping at 2 pm if they were 2 yo, and would NEVER leave me sleeping if I did happen to doze off while with them.

In all honesty, I would be concerned more about the panic attacks if I were in your shoes. Is she seeing a therapist, or just medicating symptoms? Psychological issues, just like diabetes, can't be fully treated with drugs only.

I think you need to decide exactly what you must have from nanny in order to continue to employ her. If she is unwilling to have you meet with her doctor, would written correspondence suffice? If she is able to come back to work PT during her leave, and works effectively and safely with your supervision, would that go any distance toward allaying your fears?

Your current leave and termination plans sound extraordinarily generous, and I wish you both the best.

Anonymous said...

I love mom's stories, sometime's they're really funny
Watch out, here come's mpp, she's usually on the money
Next up is the one who speaks her mind, cali mom is so cool
But don't forget sprak, if you cross her, you'll look the fool
Umass is new to the game, and so far she's got what it takes
Coming around the corner is Ro, she calls out all the fakes
We can't forget lindalou, she's the one that usually stands out
Manhattanmamma, you had a rough start, but here you are now, we know what you're all about
I know I forgot some of you, but you are all the best
Because of you, we make this blog better than the rest!

Love all you guys!!

Anonymous said...

Hahaha, cute!

mom said...

I love the poem.
Are you the writer I asked to write more, because I like your writing?

Anonymous said...

No. I just like you guys, that's all. I was goofing around and it just came out. :)

LindaLou said...

obviously the sleeping is a problem (if it's true). at this point i wonder about the truthfulness of the OP. I feel as though maybe she made a decision to terminate the nanny and now she's inventing the cause. clearly, none of us know her so we'll never really know the truth. i did notice that she hasn't been back to anser the health insurance question...

mom said...

Well, good grief, why bother to come here and lie? She could have just as easily slunk off into anonymity and fired her nanny and we would be none the wiser.

Anonymous said...

Or maybe you are just so obnoxious LL, she can't be bothered responding to you.

Anonymous said...

The OP appeared to be looking for validation for her decision to axe the nanny. Wheb she didn't get it 100%, the story did change. I can see see what LL was saying.

6:23 = Another anonymous regular basher who need to get some cajones and a life!

manhattanmamma said...

9:53 and where are your cojones?
Are we on this nonsense about how only brave people use monikers again?

Linda Lou has been obnoxious from the start to this OP. The story hasn't changed, just gotten more specific.

Anonymous said...

MM
OMG, Lmao! .... sometimes I can't decide who I like more, you or lindalou! Right now, I think it's you. You're both very brash and honest, and I like how you play!

jennifer lecarlo said...

OP,
How are you doing now? You sound very kind. I hope everything has settled down for you. Don't be so hard on yourself. I've heard of nannies let go for ludicrous reasons, but you had very legitimate reasons. Who but you will make the best decision for your children?

o.p. said...

Hello Jennifer, thanks for asking.

Sadly, my nanny informed me last night that she can't get her doctor to clear her to return to her full duties in the foreseeable future. . She didn't care to elaborate further, and I respect her wishes. Since Summer is just beginning and I usually work form home more often anyway, I am going to do as I planned and use family and friends for days I must go into the office.

We agreed that I will give her a lump sum "gift' so she can go on disability.

I was not providing healthcare for her as I gave her the choice when we hired her, she could receive a higher salary or healthcare benefits, she chose the higher salary.

In August we will look at her situation again and see if she can be cleared to resume her duties. If she can't then unfortunately I have no choice but to hire another nanny. Mid-September starts our busy season and it runs through February and I simply can't stay home as often as I would like.

Lindalou and others. I appreciate your concern for my legal welfare but rest assured, I am well within my rights to do what I am doing. Moreover, I doubt any of you would do differently if it were your children in question. The bottom line is, my nanny can't get her doctor to clear her to watch my children safely. This protects me from any and all legal action on the nannies part, she decide to pursue any. In fact, to allow her to work in such a strenuous environment knowing her doctor wouldn't approve puts me in more legal peril then releasing her.

I thank you all for your advice and concern.

Anonymous said...

Good luck OP. You made a smart move.

mom said...

Thanks again OP. And, in case you haven't heard it enough yet, you sound like a wonderful person!

LindaLou said...

she probably asked her doctor write her off work so she could go on disability and not have to deal with the nosey employer who was planning on firing her. that's what i would have done.

Anonymous said...

OP ignore LindaLou, she is a vicious, evil person.

You did the right thing. And you have been very generous about it.

manhattanmamma said...

Lindalou, if what you said were true, And I doubt it would be. It would mean the Dr. is unethical, and the nanny devoid of scruples and a fraudulent thief and it is well that the employer be rid of her!

Thanks for the update OP!

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