Friday

This is not a nanny question, but...

Received Friday, February 22, 2008-Perspective & Opinion
This is not a nanny question, but I really need some advice, please. About 2 wks. ago my 5 y.o. son came home really upset and I could tell that he had been crying. I asked what happened and he said a Teacher in the cafeteria at his school yelled at him to eat because the class was running late and needed to head back. He told me he didn't get a chance to eat and I was very upset.I went to the school the next day and spoke to one of the other Teachers that my son said was in the cafe at the time. She verified my sons story completely and said that she would keep an eye on him and make sure he got to eat. (She is very nice and is very fond of my son).

Today, my son said the same Teacher as before grabbed him by the back of the neck (not hard, but still left a tiny scratch) and told him to "eat now"! My son started to cry, never got to finish more than 2 or 3 bites (and was starving by the time he got home), and another kid took his icecream.

I am so pissed, I don't know what to do. I'm afraid of going in and saying the wrong thing and getting my son ostracized, but I can't believe this woman is putting her hands on my kid! And on top of that, I'm worried she's going to cause my son to have an issue with food because he says: she forces me to eat.What should I do? My husband says to go to the Principal, but I think it might make it worse. I would go back to the other Teacher that helped my son last time, but he said she was there and did nothing this time! At least I have the weekend to cool off because right now I know I'd say something I'd regret.Please help me. What should I do?

57 comments:

erics mom said...

I am curious, I wonder if your son was fooling around. You know how kids like to goof around. Maybe, your son is on the sensitive side. And he took it harder the lecturing than another child would.

You mentioned the other teacher adores your son. So if the teacher was doing anything abusive I think she would say something.

Also, I had a hard time in school. I was on the very quite side. I remember teachers being mean. They seem to like to "bully" the quiet ones.
I never forget my math teacher in fifth grade. I was terrible at math. I would shake when he made me go up to the class to do a math problem. If I got it wrong, he would start yelling and screaming. I remember erasers flying across the room, books, etc etc. Not just me. Other kids as well were bullied by him. Maybe, thats why he had a heart attack a year later. And he wasn't the only teacher like this.

It bothers me to this day. And I never will forget. Maybe, thats why I don't buy into that crap. Teachers are so great, blah blah blah. Some are, but there are evil ones out there too.

erics mom said...

But go talk to the principal anyway.

cali mom said...

If this "teacher" is physically and emotionally abusing your son, SHE or HE should be ostracized, not your son. This is unacceptable behavior and I don't see why anyone would hesitate in going to the preincipal about it.

Lindsey said...

I don't know about anyone else but I have a little bit of a temper when it comes to people mistreating my children, hence why I can't bring my self to put them in child care.

The second my son came hold and told me that his teacher put her hands on him, I would have flew down there and in fron of as many people as I could confront her and tell her if she so much as looks at my son funny I will put my foot so far up her ass that she'll get athlete's foot of the mouth! Don't ever let any one treat your child like that, ever!

My brother who is now almost 21 had a similar incident when he was in Kindergarten. He was 5 I was 10 and I remember it well. My brother had smart mouthed the teacher, I think he said something like "your not my mom." When she was telling him to do something. She grabbed him by the hair and dragged him to a chair for timeout. My brother came home and told my Mom. My brother wasn't home even 2 minutes before my mom was out the door and on her way to the school. My mom went into the class and right up to that teacher and asked if she pulled her son's hair. The teacher was trying to explain herself and my mom interupted and said "just tell me if you pulled his hair." The teacher said "Well yes, but...." Thats where my mom grabbed her by the hair and dragged her to a chair and told her if she ever put her hands on her son again it would be the last day she did any thing with her hands. I was so proud of my mom lol. While she may have not went about it the right way I was happy she was my Mom.

~Lindsey, SAHM in California~

A Fabulous Nanny said...

I don't think you should involve the second teacher any further. I think that a) she might have a biased opinion, one way or another, and b) it might be putting her in an awkward position- b/w the parent and a coworker...

Go to the principal about this matter. And don't fear your son getting ostrasized- if the principal has any sense, he'll see the truth of the matter. There is NOTHING to fear when standing up for your child.

Sarah and Mitch said...

Absolutely go to the principal about the situation. Obviously the ice cream thing you could consider another incident, but isolated from the other teacher. I would mention it, but really the focus I would have would be on borderline child abuse. Honestly, if she held him hard enough to leave a scratch?? That is ABSURD and completely unacceptable. I would go so far as to file a formal complaint/charges against her to the school district. You never know if this is the final one they need to boot her. People like that don't seem to isolate their behavior, and maybe if you say something and bring attention to it, more people can come forward.

Anonymous said...

Try to find out if your son is telling the truth.

Regarding the eating incident, in a situation involving many children and a limited amount of time, if your son doesn't follow the schedule, he misses out. Don't expect anyone to wait for him.

She was however wrong when she scratched him. That said, nails can be sharp . Babies scratch themselves all the time without feeling any pain.

i got the apple! said...

erics mom, I completely agree with you, and ironically enough, that's why I became a teacher! I too had one too many teachers bully me, and hurt my self esteem (even though I was at the top of my class) and yes, still to this day, it can plague you! To make a long story short, the reason I am a teacher today is because I vowed to be the opposite of what I've endured. None of my students are ostracized by me, or anyone else, and bullying by anyone-teachers included, is not allowed on "my watch"!

OP, please go to the Principle, remain calm, think over what you are going to say before hand and just explain in a rational matter your concerns about this teacher and your child. No child deserves this kind of treatment, and it's very frightening for a child when hostility comes from an adult. Protect him in an intelligent, intellectual manner, as this is what will get the Principle's attention, but please don't assume this will just "go away" on it's own or simply resolve it's self (from my experience it often does not) and never be afraid to protect your child! He's so young, that I can't see this making anything worse.

My mother has often said to me her worst regret was not "protecting" me from a certain teacher I had growing up...please, don't let that be your worst regret as well.

I'm rooting you on! :)

Anonymous said...

Lindsey, Your mom is my hero.

OP, Even if you don't take such drastic action, you DO need to follow this up with the teacher in question and the principal. Do it now before it escalates....

just anonymous said...

I am not defending that abusive teacher, but my first thought is that your son is talking with friends instead of eating his lunch everyday. I would tell your son that it's good to talk with friends during lunch, but he also needs to make sure he is eating. This teacher on a power trip must have little patience, and should not be in a child-related field. I would go to the principal asap.

Anonymous said...

It does seem like the child is chatting rather than eating, BUT under NO circumstances should a teacher put her hand on him...it's actually illegal in my state. This sounds like parental intervention is needed. Also, in my school, we need to address the teacher first and then the principal. This situation certainly warrants a visit by the parent..........

§mpp§ said...

I remember when I was in 2nd grade we were watching a film for class. Another kid asked me a question and I whispered back. The teacher came up behind me and with full force hit me with his knuckles on top of my head.
I remember trying not to cry it hurt so bad, and it left me with a huge bump.
I don't know why, but I was a good student, and this teacher was always picking on students. I remember one little boy by the name of Scott that this teacher use to 'pick on' all the time.
I guess they feel they can do this kind of crap and get away with it ... and I'm with "just anonymous/7:55" - I think a lot of times it must be a power trip.

Anonymous said...

You should take a picture of the mark on your child's neck and bring it with you to meet with the principal. Let him know you are documenting physical abuse by one of the teachers at the school and if immediate actions are not taken to keep this woman away from your son, you will be filing a formal complaint against the school district. Following the meeting, you should also send a letter to the school's superindendant to notify them that there is an issue at the school with one of their teachers that you have made the principal aware of and you expect immediate action to be taken. As much as you may want to, do NOT confront the teacher directly. You don't want to be accused of being the aggressor.

mom said...

I like Chick's advice.
Although you are mad, and I would be too, you need to appear rational. Go to the principal and have a frank, but calm discussion. (This will bode well your ability to get help with future incidents involving your son's needs at school...and there will be more along the way, since he is only 5.) Take a picture of the mark today so you will have evidence. It is not OK for her to put her hands on him and you need to make that very clear.
As for him not getting time to eat, it could be one of two things. Either he is goofing around and not eating, or he is waiting too long in the cafeteria line to get his food and there is not enough time to eat. (This was a problem at my children's elementary school sometimes. Packing his lunch may be the answer to his prpoblem there.) Go in with an open mind and discuss this issue with the principal in order to find out which it is. There might be other kids who are also not getting time to eat and they may need to do something different. But just in case it is your child wasting time, you don't want to go in with both barrels blazing right up front and end up looking foolish. Again, you don't want to be "that mom." It's a really delicate balance and you want to be taken seriously every time...because the next issue...or the fifth one...might be even more important and you want...NEED... them to see you as an interested and involved parent...not the one who thinks her kid can do no wrong. (Unfortunately, the growing number of "those moms" have made it really hard on the rest, because they make it really hard on the administration on a daily basis and so they are always feeling in a defensive position and really sort of turned of to parental complaints right off the bat.)

Anonymous said...

Dear OP, I think most of what has been said on this thread has been rather useless, except for the last comment which was made by 11:47am.

This is a very serious situation. You said your son is 5 and mentioned a principal. Therefore I assume your child is in kindergarten. I'm assuming public school from what you said. It sounds like the "teacher" who did this to your son is really not a teacher but is instead a teacher's aide. Teacher's aides are usually the ones who supervise the lunchtime and playground times for children.

This is totally unacceptable. You must go to the principal immediately. This is so important. If you have a photo, bring it. But don't worry if you don't have a photo. Your report of the incident is more than enough. At the end of the meeting, hand the principal a letter documenting what happened in writing. Be brief and succinct and stick to the basic facts, like, Ms. X grabbed 5 year old by the neck, yelled at him to eat, left a scratch mark, etc. Say that this was the second incident that was HIGHLY inappropriate. Then explain the first incident, that she yelled at him when he was upset that he didn't have enough time to eat.

There is no way a "teacher" or teacher's aide or any staff member should ever yell at a child, particularly at that age. He should never have been crying that day. The situation should have been handled quite differently.

It is very wrong that the child did not have enough time to eat. The school needs to insure that all the children are able to eat, even the ones who "play" and even the ones who are disruptive in some way.

What is also surely going on here (if it is public school especially) is that they don't have enough staff members to help the children stay focused and get a chance to eat. The staff that assists with lunchtime needs to help children unwrap, etc. and help them in a nice way to eat and redirect them if they spend too much time socializing.

Teacher's aides are paid notoriously little. The wage in my son's district is only $10 per hour, and this district is considered the absolute cream of the crop for public school. Still, the aides on the whole are very poorly qualified and have poor judgment. There are a few who are good, of course. That is lucky.

When the pay offered is so low, the most qualified individuals are not the ones that are attracted to the job.

My college student sitter makes more per hour than these teacher's aides.

Regardless of all this, you need to see that principal ASAP. YOu need to be your child's advocate and DO NOT allow this to happen again. Make sure the principal assures you that nothing like this will ever happen again. At the very least, the principal must assure this.

If it is a teacher's aide she will probably lose her job, as well she should, for having behaved this way toward your son.

Try not to be hot headed or overly emotional (such as in tears) when you see the principal. Being passionate is fine, but remember to stick to the facts and insist that the principal remedy the situation immediately. By all means bring your husband with you to the meeting. The principal will surely pay even more attention with two parents involved instead of just one.

Please keep us posted as to what happened and good luck. Have courage. Do not let anyone intimidate you into feeling like you should not speak up for your son. It is imperative that you speak up for him.

I would not worry at all about him being ostracized. I think someone mentioned that on this thread. Look what is happening to him now! This is terrible and needs to be stopped, yesterday.

And one more thing. You say that your son said that the other helpful teacher was there, but did nothing. Well, I'll be the other teacher was there, meaning she was present. But she probably was unaware of what was happening. Children often think that all the adults in the room know what's happening and don't realize the dynamics of a room.

mom said...

12:26 Good post, but I sort of disagree with one small point. IF it does turn out that the child is not eating because he is messing around instead (which is not to say he is "misbehaving"..he is five years old and probably doesn't understand having to sit quietly and talk at only the right times just yet), I think he will soon learn that. although he may not be particularly hungry at lunch, he will not feel well by the end of the day if he doesn't eat his lunch. Although I can't help but feel very sad for how he has felt at day's end (he's such a little guy), he'll catch on quickly. Sometimes we moms (myself included) are too quick to make things easy on our kids. My son wouldn't eat his lunch at his preschool (and sometimes his meals at home also) and the teachers were always so upset about it. I called my doctor and he said that a hungry child will eat and not starve himself to death...and that the best course was to serve him and then take it away after a period of time. That advice worked beautifully for us.
Of course this only applies if this boy form the post is not eating his lunch because he is distracted. If he is really not given enough time to eat and spends his afternoons hungry as a result, that is heartbreaking. His mom will find out on Monday morning which situation it is with her son and either have it corrected immediately (if it is the school's fault) or have a discussion with her son about eating his lunch (if he is not using his lunch break well.)

Obviousluy, I agree with what you say about the abuse and the schools not necessarily checking all employees well enough. Nobody has a right to touch him and that should be addressed immediately. I liek the written report idea. I would also send that to the district head.

Anonymous said...

Hi Mom, This is 12:26. I understand what you are saying about not eating lunch. I agree that children especially those that are on the young side may not eat because they spend their time socializing when they really should be eating. I agree with you totally on this.

However, I do think it is immaterial for the OP, for this post. It doesn't really matter if the kid is eating lunch or not when he's supposed to. The actions in question are the adult's. The kid is doing normal kid things. There is nothing wrong with that. Even if the kid is misbehaving (which he wasn't but I'm saying supposing he was being bad) then it doesn't matter. There is nothing the kid would do that makes it okay for the "teacher" to grab him etc. and do what she did. He should not be yelled at either. This is not how teachers are supposed to act and they should never grab children or do something so inappropriate.

Thanks.

cali mom said...

12:26, you are essentially right on but I don't see how everthing else that's been said here is "useless" because you pretty much repeated everything people have already said, though in a few more words.

Anonymous said...

Cali mom, I think people did not say what I said. There were generally a lot of anecdotes. I think the OP is asking for real help. Anecdotes are nice but real advice is what she was looking for. The OP is looking for real concrete advice that she can actually use. This is what I meant. There was a lot of chitter chatter. But to me this seems serious so I wanted to offer serious concrete advice.

pam tremani said...

I would go to school Monday morning and report it.

However I would say to the effects of:
My child came home and reported that Ms. X grabbed 5 year old by the neck, yelled at him to eat and then showed me where she had left a scratch mark, etc.

And I would summarize it all in a letter ad advised before. Instead of outright calling it a highly innaprroriate, I would say "I wasn't there, but I am inclined to believe my child who is not one to make things up and I am very alarmed that this is going on"

I think you have every reason to be there and be upset as to how your child is being treated, but by not being so absolute, you appear more reasonable. You go in to discuss what happened and why, not accuse.

That follows.
Get started on it Monday.

Also, does your son have a friend in the class, do you know any other mothers? Just curious.

Anonymous said...

I second 7:55. You need to speak with the principal about the mean bully teacher, but in a calm and reasoned way.
Many children eat little of their lunch at school because they are talking instead of eating. If another kid had time to eat his own ice cream and your son's too, it isn't a lack of time. Talk to your son about that. Tell him as soon as he gets to the table to eat and try not to talk until he finishes what he wants!

12:26 again here said...

To Pam Tremani, I don't think it is a good idea to say as you suggest, "My child came home and reported that . . . " and, "I wasn't there, but I am inclined to believe my child who is not one to make things up and . . ."

I think those things should just be left out. Instead, the OP should just say, as you suggest, "Ms. X grabbed . . . " and "I am very alarmed . . ."

I think the OP would be doing a disservice to her child by presenting it with the other phrases Pam suggests. Why should the OP bring up the possibility that the child is not being truthful, or that this story, as the OP reports it, is not the whole truth? This is not a suggestion that should be made by the OP who is the child's advocate.

If someone else (such as the principal or the evil teacher herself) decides to bring up the issue that the child may not be being truthful then by all means this should be addressed. But I don't see how it's productive, or meeting the goals of the OP, to go in to the meeting with already making the suggestion that the child may not be being truthful.

One needs to be calm and reasonable, for sure. But if you show some doubt right off the bat, when you go in with your report of what happened, they are not going to take you as seriously, for sure.

Just be matter of fact. Don't give any ammunition that could be turned against you. Don't bring up the possibility that the child is lying. Leave that for your adversary to do.

Anonymous said...

Op here.
Thank you for all of the advice. I really need it.
My husband and I sat my son down this morning and asked a few more questions to get a better handle of what's going on before I go in Monday morning and confront this Teacher.

Firstly, this is a regular Teacher that stood in for one that was out sick that usually monitors the Cafe. I'm not sure about the nice one, but she's always there.

My son (who's very articulate for his age), said he had not been talking too much. He also said the lunch line was slow (and I'm guessing he was probably close to last and that's why he didn't have much time to eat).

What alarms me (and it's taking everything in my power not to look her up right now), is my son said that at other times she's also "grabbed me by my arm", and "pinched me". I almost lost my mind. This is a lot more serious than I thought, and I am flipping out right now.
Just what I'm going to do, I don't know yet. But this Teacher is a bully!

mom said...

12:26
First I am amazes that you were even able to decipher my post. I just reread it and it is so full of punctuation errors that it barely says what I meant to say! Oops! Sorry guys!

I agree that why he is not eating is relatively unimportant in relation to the potential abuse he is suffering.
I just thought it would be best for OP to consider other possibilities before storming in and casting blame about why her son is hungry. This is because the more information she presents that is absolutely CORRECT, the more likely the principal is to take EVERYTHING she says seriously. I just thought there might be more to that part of the story.

OP, since your son has now told you more, you definitely need to write down everything he says to you and have it ready to give to the principal, as well as to send in to the district head. You might consider having your husband sign and notarize the letter if he is unable to appear with you. Two parents in the principals office first thing Monday morning would make quite an impression.(I might also think about contacting the police if you are certain your son has not embellished at all and your school does not take swift and severe action.)Pictures will be a great help. Take them immediately before his neck heals at all.

I also tend to agree with the poster who said you ought not cast doubt on your son's story. They know he is five. Only address that possibility if they bring it up first. Ask to have him brought out of class (only if necessary) to tell his story to the principal. If he is articulate, as you say he is, that will help with credibility.

Some people like this know how to abuse right in front of other adults, and yet so discretely that they do not notice. As I have mentioned before, I found out that my dad's wife was pinching my kids' necks (like a spock, squeezing their limbs, and even spanking my daughter...all when I was nearby but not looking. She thought she was providing "discipline"...although I have to wonder why she bothered to hide it if she thought it was so very right. OBVIOUSLY she DIDN'T really! One talk with my dad ended all of that IMMEDIATELY. I also told my kids that they were to make a LOUD noise and tell an adult IMMEDIATELY if she ever did dare to touch them again...just to be sure. You might tell your son to yell out loudly if anybody ever touches him in a mean way...even his teachers or other adults he has been taught to trust.

OP. please let us know what happens with this.

Anonymous said...

Mom is spot on about teaching kids to scream yell and make a scene if anyone ever touches them in a way that is inappropriate. Abusers count on their victims being taught that it is bad manners to make carry on. Parents--teach your children to scream "NO. GET AWAY FROM ME" as loud as they can if anyone does anything that makes them uncomfortable. Better to call attention to an incident and have it sorted out later than have an abuser weasel their way into a child's life.

LindaLou said...

No teacher should be touching your child like that. Contact the principal at once and raise hell!

And a person who says they are a teacher ought to know how to spell
p r i n c i p al.

Anonymous said...

lindalou
when people start insulting others, that's how the flame wars begin. whether "i got the apple" spelt principal right or wrong doesn't mean anything, this isn't a classroom. she gave sound advice, and that's more important.

12:26 again said...

to anonymous 5:25am, I don't think Lindalou said anything bad.

Abd it's "spelled" not "spelt" by the way.

Mom, it was me who said not to cast doubt on the son's story.

GOOD LUCK to the OP as she goes to the principal tomorrow! Keep us posted.

supernannynnj said...

My sister works in a school a one on one aid and has seen many situations similar to the way yours sounds.

I am not saying your child is lying but the very real possibility is he could be. Be sure to question him again as well as other witnesses to the incident before doing anything that might cause grief to the teacher for no good reason.

About 10 years ago here we had a high school teacher commit suicide because 2 girls, angry at him because they were failing, made up a story that he was sexually abusing him. It started to look bad for him because their tale was so good, he killed himself. Sadly, as the girls pressed on their story began to unravel.

In another, not so drastic situation, a boy had accused his teacher of roughing him over and showed a bruise to his parents as proof.. In further questioning, the boy admitted his friend had bruised him but he was angry at the teacher for taking away his Nintendo DS so he made it up.

Finally, the girl across the street from us, angry that her father had forbidden her to date at 13, got her boyfriend to bruise her arm then told her teacher her dad had did it to her! DYFS was called and the father went through nearly 2 months of hell until his daughter admitted it was a lie.
Even my own daughter, during a fight, threatened to call DYFS on me and say I hit her even though I hadn't laid a hand on her! (I offered to pack her bag for her while she made the call since they would undoubtedly be taking her away and I didn't want a liar living in my home anyway. I also told her she could plan on leaving her IPOD Nano, Nintendo, TV and movies behind)

My point is, kids today are quite shrewd and aware that they can say a few of the right words and cause a heap of trouble for the authority figures in their lives that displease them. Again I am not saying this is the case with your child, but it does happen, quite often. Good Luck!

Anonymous said...

12:26
yes, i do think lindalou was a little bit condescending:

"And a person who says they are a teacher ought to know how to spell
p r i n c i p al."

in what way is she being kind by pointing out someone's mistake like that, like she's not allowed because she's a teacher?
but let's allow "i got the apple" to be the judge of that, i'm out of it.

and by the way - spell, spelt -- who really cares? are you THAT bored?? it's past tense, verb - an action that was already done - but if i'm wrong, do you REALLY think i'm losing sleep over it?

why can't people be nicer on this board, i'm so sick of getting picked on.

to supernannynnj
hello? the kid is 5 y.o. - do you think if the mom thought he was some big ol' liar she would have written to us for help? she's questioned him at least twice, and if she thought he was full of shit she wouldn't have bothered with us.
maybe you should allow kids that age the benefit of the doubt.

mom said...

Supernanny,
Ahhhh, the joys of raising teenagers! Yes, they are capable of just about anything during bouts of hormone induced insanity! I have seen even some really great kids pull some uneblievable crap at times...and then turn around and be incredibly sorry right afterwards. So I have learned that during the teen years it is better to never say, "Not my kid,"...unless you enjoy eating a lot of crow, that is. I think my kids are overall pretty great, but they have also at times more resembled creatures from the underworld than the beautiful innocent babies I remember giving birth to and raising. Then, just as I am about to go batty with wondering whether one or another of them is actually insane for real, my sweet baby returns and offers hugs and sincere apologies for being such a complete jerk before.
I had lunch last week with a friend of many years (I very closely raised my kids alongside hers, whose two youngest are the exact same ages as mine and grew up more like brothers and sisters.) Many times throughout the years she called me to check and see if my older son had done X, Y, or Z at the age her son's current age, or whether her son needed a psychiatrist immediately. (It was always the first, and she always breathed a sigh of relief...while I chuckled because her son has always been an exceptionally great kid...and she sees my older son as a great role model for hers.)So, last week she told me how her son sometimes just hounds her incessantly when he doesn't get his way...following her around and getting more and more belligerent...until finally she has to sort of wonder if he might actually be demon posessed. But other times he is the great, All American, Richie Cunningham kid....same as my 17 yr. old. Again we laughed and shared stories that nobody would ever believe possible of our outwardly ideal 17 year old sons...who are both really good kids who any parent would enjoy having (most days). Since I also have the 21 year old, I was able to tell her with assurance, "They return to human form by the time they graduate."

Here is an example (which my son thought was hilarious, by the way.)I took him to register for high school just before the 9th grade, at a new school in a district he had not attended before. As the counselor was telling us about the school, I asked her how I could go about purchasing a lunch account for him (because my son had refused to take his lunch after a certain age in Junior High.) I think it was a peer thing, so I just went with it. (But before his "coolness" set in, I had been preparing really great sub sandwiches for both him and his brother every day *with the famed Boars head meat too, 'cause that's what my grocery sold at the deli...even though we apparently didn't properly appreciate how very high brow it really was...hehe* and packing them in *black, to assure the proper social standing* insulated bags with ice packs. Not too shabby.)

So, ANYWAY, the counselor goes into this long explanation about how he won't want to buy his lunch at this school because the long lines often make it nearly impossible for the kids to actually eat their food before the bell rings to go back to class. I am trying not to embarrass him by exposing his irrational belief that bringing a lunch equates to swift and certain social death, so I simply say, "I think I'd like to get him one anyway, in case he wants to buy some days." She sighs heavily, and once again launches into the very long speech she has just given us, and is clearly frustrated that I am not grasping her point. So, I am left having to say, "My son doesn't like to take his lunch." My son immediately snaps, "I DO like to take my lunch, but my mom REFUSES to make one for me." I sit there flabbergasted, imaginging that the woman is planing to call CPS on the horrible, lazy mom who refuses to make her son a lunch, even after hearing that he will likely be unable to eat anything whatsoever as a result. I say, mostly for her benefit now, "I made you great lunches every day, until you refused to take them anymore." He says, "NO! You never would make me lunch. I asked you all the time, but you always told me, 'No! I don't want to. Just buy instead.'" Now the counselor is staring at me, probably believeing I am not only a crappy mom, but a liar who has been caught in her web as well, and I have no idea what to say next. She then looks at my son and says, "Oh, the blame." (I take this as a good sign...although I don't know why...unless I am so desperate that I am willing to take anything less than berating as praise at this point.)Finally we leave. After we get out of her office, I look at my son, incredulous, and say, "WHY did you do that to me?!" He just snickers and shrugs. I said, "I made you lunch every day for years! Good lunch!" He snickers again and says, "I know." Then he smiled contentedly.

I try to tell my friends...especially when they try to gossip about something somebody else's teen has done, "Any teenager is capable of anything. The moment you start patting yourself on the back for being a superior mother, you will instantly find that you need that hand instead to answer the phone and hear about something really embarrassing your own kid did."

However, that being said, OP's son in this story is a five year old. He is not yet hormonal, and certainly not old enough to be capable of hatching any sort of plot against a teacher, or anybody else, that he may have a grudge against. He is at the age where sometimes kids make up or imbellish things, for whatever reason....but OP is the only one here who knows her son and what his "imagination" level is. She sounds like she believes him and we should give her all the credit for knowing him. As a mom, I knew which of my kids to believe at their word, and which I might need to "have a longer discussion with" to get all of the facts "straight." If they are honest with themselves, most moms know what their own kids are capable of...whether they all admit it or not. This OP sounds like she knows.

§marypoppin'pills§ said...

I agree, Mom. I don't think kids learn to manipulate properly at least until the age of 10!

Seriously though, I remember when I was little if I told my mom something happened at school, I would either be ignored or not believed. It hurt me a lot.
I feel sorry for kids who have Parents like that.

Anonymous said...

I feel so bad for op's kid, but happy that this monster-(that's what she is), will be stopped.
There is NEVER an excuse for her to touch a child in an angry way.
She is a BULLY.
I wouldn't be surprized if your complaint about her is not the first.
That being said, she will probably talk her way out of it this time.
She WILL hold a grudge against you & your son.
But it has to be addressed.
Doing it in writing could maybe be a threat for "if one more thing happens."
She should be told that she may not touch your son-ever, or bully him again, or else.
Then I would volunteer for as much time, even as a lunch time helper, as you can to show them that you mean business.

Anonymous said...

Op here

I decided to talk to the Principal and told him everything that had been happening. He said that he would look into it and speak with the Teacher. I was really nervous, especially when this Teacher just happened to see me go in to talk with the Principal. So, she knew I was there to complain about her.

I also found out that on another occasion she pulled my son into an office and yelled at him. My son has no classes with this Teacher ... why is she messing with my kid? Anyway, the nice Teacher in the Cafe told me that they'd been having other problems with her (like one of the posters here mentioned could have been possible) ... and I asked what they were. Of course, they wouldn't tell me. But I felt I had a right to know. Wouldn't you?

I have a feeling this is going to blow up and I'm really scared. I told the Principal that I was worried about what was going to happen now, but he said to not worry, he'll take care of it.

I'm going to show up every day for the next week just to make sure my son will be o.k., and to find out what's going to happen with this Teacher ....

Thank you so much for the support,
especially those that offered advice on how to approach this.

LindaLou said...

12:26
Either "spelled" or "spelt" is proper, the second is just less common here. Thanks for the support though.

It is one of my pet peeves that a teacher can't spell principal. Who can't spell the title of their own boss? It's weird. Whatever though... LOL.

hannah said...

re:
Who can't spell the title of their own boss?

Omarosa.(Piers)

food for thought said...

Children Lie.
It is done for attention, it is done through the power of suggetion by ill-intentioned adults.
People's lives become ruined because of an innocent child's lies. It is sad, it is awful, but it happens often.
Children especially lie when they are very young. Mostly for attention.
I knew of a 5 year old child who would tell her mother her father didn't feed her, and tell her father her mother didn't feed her. Both homes were full of nutritious food and three square meals prepared daily. Why did she lie, who knows. Did it cause problems between seperated parents, of course.
I worked at a home for abused and neglected children. These children often lie and must be questioned in a very specific way to assure proper treatment of factual abuse. You cannot always believe a child's exact words. You sometimes have to ask a lot questions and get a bigger picture. Then you can usually determine a lie or fact because young children have a hard time keeping the fact that their lying from leaking out after a series of gently asked, non-biased questions.
It's the difference between the father flying off the handle because he thinks his child is starving or the mother realizing the child is actually well fed and then proceeding to make sure by bringing up the story with the father. Then they see they have both been duped and can handle thier childs issues properly.
Child Abuse and the Law - False Accusations Of Child Sexual Abuse
There are some terrible things such as the stories on this link.

Be dilligent finding the truth when you have a child tell you a terrible tale, but don't take thier word for it, discover the FACTS.

Anonymous said...

How come all the other kids have time to finish their food but not your son? The teacher could have been less harsh and you need to address that but you also need to figure out why your son seems to eat only a few bites when the other students can finish their meal on time and without hassles.

Sue Doe-Nim said...

If it were me.

1. Go to the principal.
2. Be there each and every lunch hour (easy to do even if you work)
3. Alert the school in writing that you will file a police report the next time your child is assaulted.

Yes, assaulted.

There's no farking way anyone would put their hands on my child and stay out of the justice system.

cali mom said...

Sue Doe-nim, agreed completely!

Lindsey, I admire your mom's approach.

Food for thought, I'd bet your scenario happens much more frequently with children that are constantly experiencing severe turmoil, abuse and trauma than with an average kid who just likes to goof around with his friends and I see no immediate reason the OP should fly off and assume her son is a liar for no apparent reason.

4:28, the concern is NOT that the child didn't finish his lunch on time but the fact that the bully teacher manhandled and humiliated him, (more than once) which is not only WRONG, but illegal. Since this teacher is being paid out of OP's pocket, OP and every other parent whose child this teacher comes into contact with has every right to demand accountability for her/his unacceptable actions.

Anonymous said...

Sue doe-
you havent been around for awhile, may I ask what brought you back?

mom said...

Yes, welcome back. Now where is Meme?

Sue Doe-Nim said...

Insurance.

The only days I really have time to poke around on blogs are when I'm on hold.

Today I had to deal with a car insurance claim. :)

I read daily in a feed so I know y'all are there.

§marypoppin'pills§ said...

Long time, no see Sue doe-nim! ☺

Farking: I'll have to remember that, love it! (much better than having to use the 'other one'). lol

12:26 said...

Agreed that it is definitely assault. I don't understand the commenters here who are talking about threats about " the next time." She will be immediately let go when she is questioned and (hopefully) confirms she put her hands on your child. There is no next time. The school district will tell her to go quickly and quietly or they will call the police. It is 100 percent unacceptable.

And for those who think it's okay for a teacher to not know how to spell principal, when that's farking ridiculous. Teachers are PAID to teach kids to know how to spell principal!! Of course it is a basic thing to know how to spell.

Not like farking or anything . . . :)

fg said...

When my daughter was in second grade, she informed me that her teacher, a male, was putting kids in the closet if they were bad. Sometimes when your child says stuff like that, you wonder and I didn't want to act unless I had proof. So, I told my daughter that should she be told to go in the closet she was to leave the classroom and go immediately to the office and have someone in the office call me. They knew me in the office, having a few kids up at the school and I knew that if my daughter told them she needed to call me, I would get a call. I also knew, knowing my daughter, that I was sure to get a call! Sure enough, it took about a week and I got the call. I headed down to the school and of course, all Hell broke loose, with the teacher coming very close to losing his job. I doubt he ever did anything like that again. Oh, I have other stories about school and staff and "incidents". This was just one.

TX Nanny said...

I think you should have a talk with the offending teacher and with the principal.
My second grade teacher didn't ever want to let us go to the bathroom and one day I pleaded with her and promised I wasn't going to fool around but really had to go, She finally let me go when I started to cry but it was too late. I peed myself and had to go to the front of class to tell her.
My mom brought me a fresh set of clothes and while I changed she told the teacher that I would be going to the bathroom whenever I needed and then went to the principal and told him the same.
Stick up for your son and trust your own judgement on whether he is being truthful, you know him better than anyone.

Anonymous said...

I would kick that teachers ass! Its completely inappropriate for a teacher, or anyone for that matter to touch your child.

Sue Doe-Nim said...

I'm curious about an update from OP.

I've thought about this post many times and I think it's important, OP, that your son sees you stand up for him. Perhaps even you and your husband together.

It will make him very secure knowing that his parents will stand between him and anyone who might harm him.

xoxo
Sue.

Anonymous said...

Why is his food not being consumed? he is 7yrs olf for goodness sake not 3/4! tell that little bastard to follow the schedule or lose out.

and as for the teacher, she should not handle it so nasty she should just shut up and let him be hungry if he isn't eating, he'll learn.

. surely there must be people who saw her? even kids? file charges against her ass asap. in fact post a picture of her on here and name the school if you really want some feedback. you might find more kids like yours who has suffered at her hands.

listen. he should not be abused, verbally or threatened. teach your kid to follow schedule a bit better though.

Anonymous said...

I strongly agree that you should make it very clear to your son that you are sticking up for him and supporting him and will work with the school to remedy this situation. It is important for his well being that he knows very confidently that you are on his side and you are sticking up for him.

OP, please tell us what has happened with your situation. We are all eager for an update. Thank you.

From 12:26

Anonymous said...

5:38
what's with the harsh language? ... little bastard?? Are you serious? I hope you're not a nanny! Next time pay attention, the boy is 5 y.o., not 7! And I think OP was more concerned about the ABUSE, not that he hasn't time to eat (although, what kid could after the way this horrible teacher treated him!!)

Anonymous said...

Update:
The last couple of days I have been at my son's school just to make sure everything is ok. And she is still there. However, she has been going out of her way to be very pleasant to both of us.

It has been extremely awkward, and when I asked what happened, all I am told was that she was severely reprimanded. I don't know what to say about that, but as long as she never puts her hands on my son again, I'm satisfied.

The nice Teacher in the Cafe and I had a very long talk yesterday and are actually becoming friends, and I trust her to look out for my son now when I can't be there.
I know she is going to pay special attention because of all the drama that took place this week.

I also had a long talk with my son and explained to him that if he ever had any trouble again, he is to go directly to the Principal, or to the nice Teacher in the Cafe and they will call me immediately.
He feels alot better now, and I think maybe safer, too.

Thanks to all who offered advice and support, I really do appreciate it. All of you are wonderful and this is such a great site to go to for help.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your update, OP. Please also assure your son that he is safe under the care of other teachers, school officials, etc.

If there was a day when the nice teacher and the principal happened to be absent, for example, it would be good if he knew that others are trustworthy.

from 12:26

Op said...

12:26
I hadn't thought of that, thank you!
I really appreciate your advice, you've been very thoughtful.

Cherri said...

Hello:

I am a formal preschool teacher and this is what i feel you can do without offending the teacher more. First, get a couple of block times during the day at the various hours from your work and go directly to the school for observation (without your child and teacher seem). Most schools SHOULD have OPEN DOOR policy and should welcome you at anytime, especially on the times you feel that your child is not receiving fair treat. Give it a few days (if this is just at lunch time). This is not only to observe the teacher but also your CHILD so you can get both side of the story. If things go out of line while you are there, you should step in without getting into an argument with the teacher and immediately inform the school director/supervisor (or anyone that's in charge at the time) and report it to local licensing for further investigation.

Hope this makes sense

Anonymous said...

that's a great suggestion! good post! i know my kid has come home with stories about their teacher that makes me wonder if they were being too harsh on them, you know? this would be a great way to see both sides, and to ease my conscience. my kids school is very cool about parents coming to observe, as i assume most are.