Tuesday

Outside Caffe Buon Gusto in Brooklyn Heights

Received Tuesday, November 27, 2007
Description of nanny: Very petite, wearing a grey jacket, black jeans and black hooker boots. white with long, straight dark hair. Attractive.
Description of child: olive complected white child, bundled in pink snow pants, pink jacket with white stripe and pink hood.
Description of incident: Nanny was unable to control the child. She picked the child up and carried her like a suitcase and then lost her balance because of her shoes and tumbled, dropping the child. The child was wearing a lot of padding, but seriously? And wait for it, there's more. The nanny was walking with and talking with and flirting with a Hispanic man who looked like he worked at a grocery store. What store has those green shirts? If the nanny was paying more attention to the child and not flirting with unknown males, I don't think the child would have had the fit.
Location of Incident: Outside Caffe Buon Gusto in Brooklyn Heights-(THE BH Enrichment Center is 4 doors down).

39 comments:

Anonymous said...

Hooker boots??? And talking to some man? Who may work at a grocery store? Call the snob police, I think someone out there has a job! The horror! I say - who the #%^& cares what she was doing and what she was wearing. Was the child hurt? No. MYOB.

Meme said...

How old was this child. Even the most well behaved children with the best mom or caregiver have to be carried kicking and screaming away at least once. You dont know the situation or her relationship with this man. This could be a bad sighting, but there's not enough info. And what exactly are Hooker boots?

Anonymous said...

shut your stink mouth

Anonymous said...

I love how the children mentioned on this site are always darling angels who are only acting up because their nannies are doing something wrong.

Seriously, I'm not trying to offend the OP, but this is kind of ridiculous! There are so many assumptions here, it's laughable. Okay, she dropped the kid she was trying to carry (who was throwing a fit) How old was the child she dropped? How far did she fall? Was she injured?

This post sounds less like a bad nanny sighting and more like someone passing judgment on a total stranger. Seriously? Hooker boots, a Hispanic male (who works at a grocery store no less) What an outrage!

I also noticed you said she was flirting with "unknown males" Was there more than one, or is this just something to add to this nanny's whore-ism?

Anonymous said...

I agree, this post is verging on ridiculous, overwhelmingly full of assumptions, and quite offensive (hooker boots??? Come on now, you sound like a total prude btw.) How do you know this *gasp* unknown grocery worker wasn't nannies boyfriend, or husband? How do you know the charge isn't a total spoiled brat and being carried "like a suitcase" so the nanny can get her under control and avoid being hit and/or kicked in the face while doing it? AND how can you even blame a fit that you know nothing about on a nanny, that you also know nothing about? You make so many assumptions, that it's blatantly obvious that you don't have any real facts to make this a horrible sighting. Next time, spend less time stalking petite hooker boot wearing nannies, and look for an actual sighting...or you could always get a life.

mom said...

Well, you never know. I have seen exceptiions, of course...and no child is perfectly well mannered at all times. But as a general rule, the kids I have known who are raised lovingly and with consistent, fair discipline tend to be calm, loving, well behaved and not prone to frequent tantrums for the most part. I had a few tantrums from my kids when they were little (sometimes kids just have a meltdown) but none of them ever hit at me, or any other adult. When a child this young hits, screams and is uncontrollable, there is likely a problem somewhere in her life. With one tantrum sighting it is impossible to tell if the child has an emotional problem, or whether the parents or nanny treat her so consistently badly that she acts this way generally in response. Also, we don't know whether this child is raised by her parents, or almost exclusively by the nanny. The age of the child would be a big clue to me. A two year old out of control is no big surprise. A five year old being "uncontrollable" speaks to more serious parenting/caregiver issue.

melanie, oh said...

Great response, Mom.

I don't like to see older children having tantrums because the parent or nanny caring for them usually acts like the child is just awful and the people observing the sight are usually angry with the child, but sometimes a child acting out is a cry for help. It isn't normal behavior in an older child and is absolutely a reflection of a parenting/caregiver issue.

Three cheers for all the mothers, fathers and caregivers who have the number one goal of providing a loving atmosphere with calm, consistent and fair discipline.

kim said...

oh come on, even I have hooker boots.

thigh-high boots said...

oh, yeah? Well, I AM a hooker!

mom said...

You know what...even I just got a pair of them thar "do me" boots. Of course, I won't be wearing them around town to do my errands... but I do look forward to giving them a whirl one night soon!

erics mom said...

You can be the best parents on the block and still have a child that will have a tantrum. Or seem to others out of control, and get judged as having a wild child with no discipline. Not all tantrums are because of parents not knowing how to control their child. If anyone knows anything about Autism or ADHD they know what I am talking about.

? said...

yes eric's mom. autism is a problem, is it not. that is how i read the comment. either the kid cannot control himself or the parents are monsters behind closed doors and the child's little voice seeks to scream in the middle of walgreens, "help, help me" and when people look away in disgust, the child tackles a display of bubbles and hula hoops and the workers scoff in disgust. The parent grimaces, grabs his hand and yanks him to the car; the abuser so sure of her craftyness that she looks to and finds sympathy in the eyes of the onlookers while the child gets dragged out of yet another store, not saved, only to return to the same horror he faced horrors before at the hands of this madman, this mother of his.

Anonymous said...

How is the fact (if it is) that the nanny was talking to a "hispanic man" going to help the parents identify the nanny?

I thought this site was supposed to help parents... it seems more like troll and flame bait?

If you're looking to generate more revenue through site traffic, this is a pathetic way to do it.

Anonymous said...

maybe the nanny's employers will recognize the boyfriend.

what an idiot you are.

how is one sighting of a hispanic male supposed to drive traffic?

this site is all about DESCRIPTION of people

Anonymous said...

When my son was 5 y.o. (and even before then) had fits in public, I could feel other peoples eyes burning a hole in my back. I didn't understand what was wrong, because when he behaved he was a perfect angel. I was afraid CPS would come knocking on my door after any trip outside the house. He kept getting in trouble at school, and I got notes home from his Teachers on a weekly basis. I decided to take my son to the Dr., who at first glance suspected ADHD/Special needs. I knew how bright and sweet my son *could* be, so I said, "No way" ....
I was then referred to a Specialist who over 3 wks. time ran several tests. Come to find out my son had certain allergies that when exposed to them, made him react both physically and emotionally. As soon as these allergens were removed, guess what? Our family experienced a new lease on life, our son was never happier, or healthier for that matter. We just had no clue, and neither did the Drs. I am just glad we kept on with it. He is now a bright, well-adjusted, straight-A second grader with many friends, and the Teachers adore him!

mom said...

Oh my gosh 3:49! I forgot all about that. My oldest son reacted like that to chocolate when he was young. It was so bad that we were able to make the connection when he was a toddler and so we were able to almost completely aleviate the problem. He turned into a completely different child. Scary.
One day when he was in 2nd grade the teacher mentioned to me that my son had, very uncharacteristically,stood up on his chair one day in the middle of class and thrown an eraser all the way across the room! We were both completely aghast because it was so unlike him to misbehave at school. Finally, I said, "It sounds like he got a hold of some chocolate." The teacher looked stricken and said she had given the kids candy bars as a treat that day!
Even without a medical problem, every kid has a meltdown now and then anyway. That's why you can't make a judgement based on seeing one tantrum in the street.

Anonymous said...

Mom -

I find your assumptions very misinformed and quite rude.

I am the nanny of a 4 year old boy, who most of the time is a completely gorgeous little angel who gives me kisses and hugs, plays well (although he is very high-energy), and is well spoken. However when he gets tired, he will throw MASSIVE fits. As in he'll hit, scream, kick etc.

Now according to you, that would have to mean that his caregivers (ie. myself and his mother) must be doing something wrong because he is "acting out". This could NOT be further from the truth, his mother is one of the most caring mothers I've ever met, she is consistent and calm with him and very in-tune to him. And I am exactly the same with him. However he still has tantrums. It's just part of his PERSONALITY because he is a very high-energy child.

Now, before you accuse me of not reading your post properly - I am aware you wrote that there are "exceptions" to the rule at the beginning of the post.

Let me just say though that I have had charges before who are exactly the same as this. So although I agree with you that problems in the home can cause children to act out in this way. I think it is unfair of you to assume that if a child does, then as a general rule there must be problems with the caregivers. I think you are being biased and basing you opinion only on your OWN children, who as you said had only infrequent minor tantrums.

So I just ask that in future, before you lump "all tantrum throwing children" together in the "abused" category, remember that maybe your kids arn't the only example of how a child can act :)

mom said...

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to lump them all together. (I'm TRYING to be a little shorter in my posts..by popular request! But that means I can't drone on forever detailing every little exception.)
No, my children didn't hit adults, but we had a couple of doozy tantrums.
As I said, any kid can have a meltdown from time to time.
And, of course, there are children who have special needs, such as autism, food alergies, and other undiagnosed ailments.
I still stand by my observation that GENERALLY kids who are raised with loving, consistent discipline tend to be calm, loving and well behaved in return.
I also think that a five year old who hits and kicks at adults PROBABLY has some sort of issue going on...be it abuse, ineffective or sporradic discipline, or some sort of innate issue with the child, such as I detailed above, or others. Hitting adults is a serious issue and goes beyond simple tantruming.

Maybe the boy you watch is one of the exceptions? But if you know he gets so overwrought that he becomes uncontrollable to that degree when tired, it is probably a good idea to make rest time a huge priority in his schedule. He sounds like he might become overstimulated very easily. That's difficult. I have a couple of friends who have had kids like that and it is a constant effort to keep a keen eye on them and be ready to head for home on a moment's notice at the first hint of trouble.

marypoppin'pills said...

Mom
Your revised post hit on a couple of topics that friends I had also experienced. Their kids would kick into 'nut mode' and all hell would break loose ... if they were overstimulated. Believe it or not, there are children that have sensitivities with that also.
I think the bottom line should be that any caring parent of a child that has behavioral problems just take that extra step to find out if there is a specific reason why.

mom said...

marypoppin'pills said...

Yes, you are right. What I didn't go on to say (because it's sort of painful) is that most of the kids I knew who had very involved, loving, and consistent parents, but still had those problems, went on to be diagnosed with real "illnesses" later on. One autism, and two others Aspergers (which is just a more specific form of autism.) Because autism can sometimes be very "mild", and because a lot of these kids are exceptionally smart, many don't get diagnosed until they and their families have suffered for years and years...trying all kinds of different parenting tactics and methods of discipline..feeling incredibly guilty all the while.

ADD was a factor for some, although in my experience there was less incidence of the behavior being so completely out of control that it involved hitting adults.

And there were also several kids who acted out simply because of how they were being raised. But those kids also seem to be able to "control" the extent to which they carry their antics.

The worst case I saw was with a woman from my playgroup. I have written about her on here before. Her child was BEGGING her, through his actions, to take notice of him and discipline him...as he saw all the rest of us moms doing FOR our children. She never did. His behavior was so bad that people in public would make loud nasty comments on a regular basis. He would misbehave in terrible ways and then look at his mother, I thought expectantly. All she would ever do was say, with sort of a chuckle, "Saaammm" She even let him abuse her younger children. The next youngest son had his arm ripped out of the socket so many times by this boy that the mom told us with a chuckle one day that the doctor finally just taught her how to put it back into place so she wouldn't have to come in so much. She told us one day, as if it were no big deal that she had taken her middle son to the clinic because he had a large bulge near his spine. The doctor said it was a deep contusion and all she could figure was that it probably came from two days before when her son came in crying and she saw her older boy weilding a golf club. She reported this with as much concern as one might show while ordering a hamburger. Then she had a new baby. One day at the pool I was holding her baby and noticed that his torso was very bruised. The group of us inspected the baby carefully and realized that the bruises were handprints. At that, the mom chuckled and said, "Saammm."

Again, if I were in that situation today, CPS would be called from my cell phone before I left the pool.

Autism is not a disorder said...

Autism and Aspegers are not a "disorder" per se... but merely different behaviors which are caused by remnant neanderthal genes which are expressing themselves.

They are the side effects of high IQ individuals marrying other high IQ individuals. Autism's mild form, asperger's syndrome is overly represented in high income western european descent individuals. When these people marry and procreate, Autism can show in their children.

The Neanderthal theory states that Homo Sapien and Neanderthal interbreeded in parts of the middle east and europe generations back. Neanderthal bred into Homo Sapien, leaving remnant genes. Neanderthal evolved with the same brain capacity as Homo Sapien, except he was acclimated for a cold environment.

I know this theory sounds impossible, but scientist are currently mapping the neanderthal genome.

Autism is rarely found in East Asian or Sub-Saharan African people. It is overly represented in European, the Americas (in all races in the Americas due to erupean male / African or Amerindian female racial mixings or slavery.

Read the page below with an open mind. It will help parent's frustration with autistic children, and help explain why we "aspie" adults felt different than others as children.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/asperger.htm

Anonymous said...

WOW autism caused from two high IQ people HAHAHAHAHA! I wonder what arrogant person came up with that one. If you further research autism you find stories of mothers changing their children's diets and what not and suddenly their children is a million times better... But hey at least we have food that stays fresh for rediculous amounts of time. Maybe if you pump your child up with more unnatural products they will get better. Then again maybe the high IQ theory is right!

mom said...

Actually, I have heard the hgh IQ theory too. It is being researched as a possible factor.

I have several (talk about epidemic..they are NOT kidding)friends with kids who are Autistic to varying degrees. Sometimes it is proven to be genetic. There are tons of theories as to what the other causes or contributors might be. Nothing has been proven conclusively, unfortunately, because it is hell on these parents who try to leave no stone unturned in helping their children, but have no real, concrete, proven cures to rely on. They try everything out there, and who can blame them?

Perhaps there are several factors that cause it...which may be why one treatment helps one child tremendously while the next is unchanged by the same treatment. You just have ot try everything until something helps your specific child.

I really feel for these parents. And I am so sad for the kids too, because we really don't know how aware they are of what is going on around them. Are they perfectly aware, but somehow "paralyzed" from communicating as they want to?

Anonymous said...

Not possible. The stupidest woman on the planet has an autistic child. I am talking so low is her iq, we wonder how low. borderline retarded. And her husband is no bundle of intelligence either.

cali mom said...

Who, Britney?

Anonymous said...

aw, cali, low blow! lol

cali mom said...

I actually really don't know who 5:42 was referring to, and that was just my guess! Who is it?

Anonymous said...

Cali
I have an idea who wrote 5:42, and I believe I know who they had reference to ... but why open another can of worms?

erics mom said...

my nephew was diagnosed with Aspergers. My sister had no idea what was going on. She knew when he was a baby he cried alot. She even asked the doctor at his wellness visits. But they just brushed it off. Oh hes just a baby, babies cry. She put her son in daycare at 2 1/2 years old. Twice a week he went. The director of the school is the one that approached her. Stated that she believes there was a problem, and wanted him to see someone. She had numbers and gave them to my sister. Low and behold, they put him in a special pre-k, and before he started kindergarten they diagnosed him with Aspergers. So now he has a shadow, and is doing great!
Now, I am going thru something with my son hes two. And my sister told me to get him evaluated thru the hospital. He is at a fifteen month speech level. And the head of speech had other concerns, but she didn't address them to me. She is going to set up an appt. for me to see the head doctor for childrens learning disablities, etc. So hes going to get help now as well.
Just wondering all these shots they give kids are harming them. I am going to skip the influeza vaccine next month. And in reality I wished I skipped the Hep B shot. As I learned from a teacher in a class I was taking babies don't need that vaccination.

sorry to write just stressed with everything going on.

Anonymous said...

you are in my prayers erics mom good luck with eveything

mom said...

Eric's mom,
DON'T start blaming yourself for any of this!
Nobody knows what causes autism (Unless its a genetic case), and vaccinations are only one of many suspects. Vaccines are a tricky thing. You take risks if you dont get them and possible risks if you do. And everybody has a different opinion. You need to do what you think is best for your son, which is what you did.
Don't be afraid before you have had him evaluated. He may not have Autism, or anything else really wrong. Some kids really do just develop more slowly...especially when it comes to speech and vocabulary. Whatever the outcome, you will do your best for him. I have read your posts all along and I know you to be a mom who cares very much for your child. I have friends with Aspergers children. There are challenges, but these are also great kids...and usually exceptionally bright. My own son had to take speech therapy in school. He caught up very quickly and is a very bright kid.

Anonymous said...

erics mom
My heart breaks for you. Please - make sure to do your reading concerning vaccines. I had the same concerns because my son was developing slowly and having speech problems. I thought at first it had to do with the vaccines because of the articles being published at the very same time a couple years ago in relation to autism. I decided to go ahead with them because whatever was done, was done, and I weighed the pros and cons with my sons Dr.
Now, 3+ yrs. later, my son has caught up (and then some!). He reads above his grade level, and is developing normally now. He still has some speech problems, but he has come such a long way with a therapist. Nobody can tell anything EVER went wrong with my child. All children develop differently. I will pray for you, and hope that everything works out for you. But do know that if there is, there are wonderful specialists out there to help!

erics mom said...

Thanks Mom and 7:11 for your comments. I truly take all your knowledge to heart. And I am glad your kids seem to be doing well with the help they are getting. We are going to get help this April, can you believe the hospital is that booked up! Then we are going to get early intervention coming to our house.
I just came on now. My sister,came over with her kids, so my son was so excited to see them! Then grandma and grandpa came so the fun was just beginning!! We love getting together as a family all of us, in our small apartment : )

Anonymous said...

Eric's Mom:

First, I'm so sorry to hear that, but as 7:11 said and your sister's experience shows, it is amazing what early intervention can do. My youngest daughter was diagnosed as speech delayed at 15 months and received speech therapy twice a week for almost a year, at the end of which she was testing well above her age level.

But, I do have to say, as a working Mom who has sometimes been offended by some of your comments, I find it ironic that the one who first identified an issue with your nephew was a daycare provider. The one who spotted my daughter's issue at such an early age was also a daycare provider. Even though I took extended leave and spent every day of her first year with her, and she was not my first child, I had not noticed an issue. A caring knowledgable childcare provider sometimes has a better frame of reference to recognize developmental issues a Mom never experienced and a pediatrician doesn't pick up in a 15 minute exam. I know you are a caring Mom from other posts. I suspect your sister is also a caring Mom who selected a high quality childcare, as are other Moms who make the effort to find quality childcare. BTW, my daughter will be entering kindergarten in the fall and her pre-school teacher is amazed at her vocabulary and her writing skills at age four. (She now goes to a traditional pre-school since I switched from working outside the home to work-at-home with nanny assistance when she was 3). I'm keeping you in my thoughts and prayers--the diagnosis process was the most stressful thing I've ever gone through--but beleive you will have a happy ending. God bless.

Anonymous said...

And here is 10:56 ...
a prime example to why it is *ok* to have a nanny in the home. So much fighting back and forth on the issue (I've been guilty, too) but here is a good reason. Mom decided (in her childs best interest) to become a WAHM, and for added stability for her daughter, added a nanny to the family. Good for you 10:56.

erics mom said...

10:56

Why were you offended by my comments? Yes, a daycare provider diagnosed my nephew, he was going to a center twice a week. She did suspect something wrong but was brushed off. Shes a young mom with her first child at 22.
Yes, she was a SAHM and then a Working mom now a SAHM:
let me tell you the story: My sister was a stay at home mom. Her husband at the age of 34 suffered a heart attack, so to help with financial strain she decided to go back to work. She was torn because she was staying home and didn't want to leave them. But she was torn with a husband at a young age having a heart attack and a mortgage. Within, six months he had a massive heart attack at work and died. They tried to revive him but he basically collapsed and died. Now, I don't know about anyone else on this forum but what would you have done in this situation. Your husband at a young age suffers a heart attack, you decide to go back to work to help out, you put your child in daycare two days, and the other three days have the grandparents watch the child. She has two kids eleven months apart.
In this time frame is when problems with her son were being recognized. Imagine dealing with a loss and then problems with your children at the same time

erics mom said...

10:56

Thank you for your thoughts. And I am glad your daughter is doing well. Sorry, to get offensive I jumped the gun. I reread your comment to me : )

Anonymous said...

No offense taken. I was referring to past posts on other threads where you have sometimes taken a harsh position against working Moms who use nannies. (I've been on ISYN for more than a year now after having a bad nanny experience with the first person I hired--she only lasted three weeks, but she was a real winner--NOT). I shouldn't have brought it up at all in my post since I just wanted to let you know that these things often do work out just fine and that as stressful as the evaluation process is, there is a light at the end of the tunnel, and help if there is an issue found in the testing. Your post just reminded me of how awful it was and how I also blamed myself everyday for doing things wrong over the six week period I took my daughter to almost a dozen doctors, therapists and social workers. I agree with Mom--don't beat yourself up over anything you think you did or didn't do.
--10:56

erics mom said...

Oh I didnt' really I even took a harsh stand on working moms. Sorry, if it came across that way.