I am at my wits end and could really use some advice. I work from home and my husband and I split our time between London, Argentina and New York for his work. Because we move from house to house every three months, and because I work from home, I have a live-in nanny for my 11 month old daughter. She has been with us for 5 months and she is fabulous on many, many, levels. I trust her with my daughter completely. I tell her that all the time. I am a first time mom and I have learned an enormous amount from her. I have tried to educate myself to see things from the nanny's perspective, as living with a family is hard, particularly with a SAHM (which is why I love this site). She has an extremely generous salary, 6 paid weeks of vacation a year, bank holidays off, health insurance and taxes taken care of...she is Spanish and very close to her family so I encourage her to go home for long weekends outside of her paid vacation so she can get a break (and I love my baby and like to be with her, I just need a nanny as I have to work!) I completely respect her when she is with the baby and don't go in and bother them, and I back her up on any kind of discipline. None of which is too hard as we are often on the same page!
Here's the problem: as I said, she is Spanish and English is her second language. I really don't think she understands a lot of what I say and this has caused huge problems! For example, I often take the baby for a few hours in the afternoon. Technically, M works from 7 am - 6 pm but I know it can be exhausting and I LIKE spending time with my child. So I often take her for a few hours for a playdate or to the park or just to play with me alone in my room. I once found M crying and was very concerned, I thought maybe something had happened to her...she said she thought I thought she wasn't doing a good job, and maybe I should find another nanny! I was horrified and told her I loved her and that sometimes I take the baby to give her a break and because I enjoy spending time with DD. I thought the situation was sorted out but every time I take DD my nanny sulks for about 24 hrs after! I cannot understand it! And it has gotten to the point where I hate the negative energy coming from her and seeing her sulk so I just wait for her days off to spend time with DD. My friends say this isn't normal. But it gets worse.
Once a month - like a CLOCK - not only does she get into a horrible mood but she tries to pick a fight with me and my husband. Example (this is just one of many): we had a dinner party (very rare for us as I am not social and don't often have people over!) I was cooking and some guests were in my kitchen, but we were going to sit down in the dining room. I told the nanny to cook her dinner whenever she wanted: she certainly didn't have to wait until everyone left which would have been very late! She said, oh there are too many people downstairs. I told her I would prepare her a plate and leave it for her. I left the plate out, I told her it was there, we had dinner in dining room, I cleaned up kitchen, plate was still there. By now it was midnight and I didn't want to disturb her as her lights were out. The next day she was in a FOUL mood - so bad that even my husband noticed. We were both concerned and went to ask her what was wrong. She flipped out and yelled at us that she had never been treated so badly by a family, that she didn't eat dinner, that we were 'mean and horrible people'. This is not the first time she has said that. Another time when she was in a bad mood and I asked if everything was ok she told me I was a mean person because of my tone of voice (?) and that I was a bad mother because I didn't spend enough time with my baby. Well I burst into tears - it was so hurtful! I tried to explain that I want to spend time with the baby but I had toned it down when she was working because she made such a big deal about me taking the baby. She just kept saying I was evil (!)
When my husband got home I told him what she said - we all sat down the next day and I tried to explain that she had REALLY hurt my feelings when all I had done was ask if SHE was ok. I asked her to apologise. She refused and said 'this is what I think'. I couldn't believe it. I got pretty angry then and asked if she was trying to get fired or if she wanted to quit. She said no. I again asked for an apology, I told her 'at least say your sorry for hurting my feelings'. She finally did so. It was like dealing with a toddler. Why haven't I fired her? She is AMAZING as a nanny. She would throw herself in front of a bus for my child. I completely trust her judgement. My child adores her. She has taught my child so many things..she is clean, discreet, trustworthy..I have heard so many horror stories that I don't know if I should put up with this behaviour (which literally happens once a month..there have been 5 incidents since she started working 5 months ago). Or do I take back my self-respect and move on? I am really open to suggestions! I have tried talking to her in the times between the moody periods and she just gets defensive and acts as if I am criticising her job performance - which I absolutely am not. It's just how she treats me sometimes, and my husband! - Anonymous
44 comments:
That's really strange behavior. How old is your nanny?
i had this happen with a hispanic housekeeper,she was my grandma's employee and then when my grandma died, she stayed on for a while - every week she would come she would yell at me and threaten me physically
i took her to a bi-lingual psychologist - she would be VERY calm and happy after talking to the doctor, but then angry the next week
the doctor finally told us both we needed to part company as it was unhealthy - BIG relief to me - so - she lost her job because of acting weird to me
you seem to be doing well financially - take her to a bi-lingual psychologist and it will at least help you understand why she is acting the way she is
IMO - she haas an anger management issue - anger brings endorphins so people sho have that issue get mad at nothing to bring the endorphin high
let us know what happens
I couldn't even finish reading this post. This nanny is not the right nanny for your family. You shouldn't have to walk on eggshells around your nanny, just as a nanny shouldn't have to either. She should not have said these things to you. If this is seriously monthly like clockwork, then she may have PMDD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premenstrual_dysphoric_disorder
This still does not excuse her mistreatment of you. If you really want to try to work things out, then try suggesting she see a doctor. There is medication for this disorder.
However, with what you are offering, there are plenty of great nannies who would love to work for you! Don't settle!
I also immediately thought of PMDD while reading your post. This nanny needs to get some help and it is not your job to ensure she does. It is your job to protect your family and her screaming that you are evil is not protecting. Find another nanny.
It sounds like the nanny gets really bad PMS since you said it happens like clockwork each month.
Borderline Personality Disorder sounds like to me. Not just an "Hispanic" issue. I personally would have no choice but to let her go, but if you do have the resources to help her access mental health support, this may be a wonderful parting gift.
A bilingual translator/ mediator may help get all info on the table so that you can make the best informed decision, but really from what I hear this is not healthy for your family.
Are you kidding me? Get a cam so you have evidence in case shes trying to get fired for unemployment, and get rid of her!
This is coming from a fellow nanny, not a mom. I would *NEVER* say these things to my employer. You guys sound great, I would love a job like that. It sounds like she's abusing you. Most nannies are trustworthy, love children, and would jump in front of a bus for them. This one sounds really unhappy and terrible. After only 5 months, it's not worth investing any more time in to.
As nannies, we need to screen families as much as they screen us. Therefore, I've never taken a job I was unhappy with.
Does she have really bad PMS? That is the first thing that came to mind, haha. But she should not be saying those things to you and should be able to handle adult conversations. I wonder if you should talk to her with a third party present and figure out what is wrong? She may be a wonderful nanny that your daughter adores but can you deal with her moods?
It isn't just a matter of conflict between you and the nanny. It is scary to think of someone that emotionally unstable caring for a preverbal child. Get her help as suggested above if she is willing, but you need to replace her. You don't know what happens when you are not there. Your 11 mo will be walking soon. How do think she will handle it if for instance he throws a screaming tantrum at the playground and refuses to get in the stroller? There are wonderful nannies out there and that is what your chid deserves.
This is the OP. Thank you so much for your responses! I guess I've read so many bad nanny sightings on here that i thought I should take her mood swings because she seems so great with my baby. But even writing my story made me realize how crazy I have been to put up with this for so long. She had another explosion with me yesterday when I asked her if the baby had napped ok, saying that she had done nothing wrong, that everything was ok. When I gently tried to say, I wasn't criticizing you, i was just asked and I'm worried there might be a language barrier here as I really just said "how did the baby sleep", and she LOST it. She said I was so mean to her, that I had bad energy and then she held out her arm and said "can you see how you have mad me feel by your tone of voice"...I guess she got goosebumps or something? Well, when someone is acting really irrationally my response is to get SUPER calm, so I asked her "if you hate me so much why don't you quit?" and she walked away. I took the baby for a long walk to give her time to cool down and have a think on how to proceed. Then my husband called me - she had emailed him that she was quitting because she can't seem to please me! Argh this makes me sooo upset because I have NEVER thought she was doing a bad job and I feel so frustrated as if we could only communicate this somehow could be avoided. Or maybe she just really dislikes me!! Anyway, onward and upward. It is so good to hear your responses and know there are good nannies out there! If anyone lives in London and needs a job please let me know!
How horrible to go through all of this, but it's great that she won't be working for you anymore. As defensive as she is, I am starting to think maybe she IS doing something wrong that you may not be aware of. I grew up speaking only English in an area that was mainly Hispanic. They are really wonderful people and ive never seen any language barrier cause someone to flip out like this over something so small as asking how a baby napped. She has something going on specific to her, not to her race or culture (as was insinuated above). Good luck finding the perfect nanny for your child!
I'm in the US BUT I would MOVE to work for you lol. You guys sound like amazing bosses to work for. I bet your LO is adorable and oh so precious!! Good luck. Your nanny needs help. You can steer her in the right direction. Her choice to accept it though.
Well. I'm having a hard time believing this is an actual truthful post.
On the chance that it is it's time to get a new nanny.
Just not a good fit.
She needs help sounds like severe PMDD. Not your problem to get her help.
Hope you find a stale nanny soon.
Since you say she gets really moody like "clockwork" once a month, I am going to assume she has PMS. A severe case of it. I would recommend a good Dr. in the area and have her evaluated and treated if possible. This is the only option for her monthly moods since talking with her does not seem to do anything.
Regarding everything else, perhaps there is a breakdown in communication because of the language differences. I am not sure how bad or good (for that matter!) her English skills are.
She seems rather sensitive, moody and a little unstable if you ask me.
If she refuses to get evaluated by a professional, let her go....
I wouldn't let someone who acted like this around my cat...let alone my kid.
But how will she get home from London ;)? That would be an interesting way to make your point.
This is the OP..for anyone who asked, she is 44...and yes I thought after the first 3 times that it was PMS too which is why I ignored it...it was almost like dealing with a teenager who you know is really moody and doesn't mean the things they say..when she is 'on' she is super 'on' and bubbly and cheerful and generally wonderful. My husband thinks it might be a combination of PMS and the language difference..it's as if she wants to pick a fight and if I say ANYTHInG she might not understand she twists it and works herself up and I can't calm her down to try and make her understand. Oh the hours I have spent analyzing this! I would almost suggest / send her to a psychiatrist just to find out what it is! But for those who suggested that, I just feel it is too personal a matter to raise. Or maybe she just really really hates me and once a month she can't control herself and it all comes out. Or maybe I am a bad mom! Who knows? Either way, she will be leaving and I can stop spending house analyzing and worrying whether she is happy / whether I have offended her that day!
I'm a nanny and have been for 8 years, and I would NEVER talk to any of my bosses that way! There were a few HORRIBLE ones too and you don't even sound like a horrible one. She needs to learn to be respectful and professional when it comes to you, this all sounds ridiculous! There's no way you should give up any time you want to spend with your baby because it bothers her. She's getting paid time off while you do it, plus it's healthy and a beautiful thing for you to spend time with your baby when you can.
As a nanny, I would say fire her rude butt and make sure to be clear about why, that way hopefully she'll learn from her mistakes and rotten attitude and not do it again to some other family.
I've had awful families to work for but I RESPECTFULLY voiced any concerns or complaints I had and then quit if they weren't changing. I don't think her being of another culture/language should matter. Rude is rude.
She told you you are a bad mother and you and your husband are the meanest people she has ever met? I'm sorry, why is this woman still in your employ????
I would change all the locks on the doors. She sounds crazy. Even your daughters bedroom make sure that window is locked. She is screwy.
She sounds like she may be the type to turn physical. Not sure.
Why she gets upset when you take the baby for a few hours is really weird. I would think any nanny would love that break! It seems to me that she thinks she is the mother. She feels like your a terrible mom and she can do a better job. Thats just my thoughts that she is making herself too much like a mom to your daughter?? Maybe, she wants to push you out of your own family. You know like the Hand that Rocked the Cradle movie.
Well you must have alot of patience. If anyone called me a bad mom I would flip on them.
Take care hope you find someone awesome
But as a nurse.... she sounds as bat shit manipulative as my bipolar sister in law. Personally I think she has a mood disorder of some kind. Is she in her twenties? If so anticipate this to potentially get worse.
Now let's assume she has no mental disorder.... her behavior is irrational. Are you seriously considering not firing her? Her issues with people downstairs are her own issues- not yours. Her awful words calling you a bad mother are vulgar.
You need to let her go, just pay her and give her 2 weeks severance, book her into a motel for 2 paid weeks, or more if you please and get her away from your child. I can't imagine how she will treat your child "once a month" once the kid gets older and starts giving her a hard time.
As a nurse, I can tell you this is heading to the land of resentment and trouble...
Best of luck to you.
OK can I just say, I just read your update and am so happy to hear she quit. When is she leaving? I suggest using a nanny cam or not leaving her home alone until she leaves. I am truly concerned about your baby.
You seem like a nice and compassionate employer (maybe too nice.) Please do yourself and your family a favor. Get a new nanny. Your nanny is acting unprofessional and irrational. Find one that you can communicate well with, both language and personality. Your nanny should be a good comfortable fit for your family not a nightmare.
I would defiantly move to London to be your nanny, your family sounds amazing and supportive. It is terrible that you had to deal with such an insane nanny!
i agree with ericsmom - change every lock. Give her some severance pay just to be goodhearted as you can afford it
you are off the hook! you did well, you called her on it - but stay out of her way
this will be over soon - you have handled it well - keep us updated so we will know you are ok
I didn't really read all the comments but I'm thinking PMS. I know people who turn into a monsters once a month too...
You only cried because you know it's true. You don't spend enough time with your daughter.
Oh man, I'm hopefully moving to London next year, and I'd work for you in a heartbeat, you sound like a great MB. Too bad it's such a long way off :(
OP,
You are NOT a bad mother, and for her to tell you this is unacceptable. She sulks when YOU take YOUR CHILD for a few hours to play? Not ok. She sounds like she has some issues, and while she took good care of your baby, she is not meshing at all with your family. You should not have to spend your time worrying about if your nanny is angry,sad,sulky,happy,grumpy every day.
I am glad she has decided to leave, do not try to convince her to stay. If you want to be generous, pay her a small severance, and never look back.
You sound like wonderful people who compensate very well. You will find a new nanny soon. Your baby is still so young, they will quickly bond with someone new. Someone who is a better fit for your family.
Best of luck to you. I was lucky enough to find a great fit with a wonderful wahm family, and have been there 5 years now. I hope you find something just as great!
Oh, and dont ever let anyone treat you like that. The next time your nanny tells you you are mean and bad parents, tell them you are sorry they feel that way, its obviously not a good fit, and send her packing. I cannot even fathom saying something like that to my family.
Let us all not forget that OP may think shes just the sweetest thing,and she may just be, but she may also just be a very annoying first time SAHM. She simply might not even be aware that she is being overbearing.I find the idea of working for a SAHM terribly damning,and while many of the other nannies here will disagree, I feel she may have simply felt trapped by MBs presence.
I personally don't really like when families hire nannies where there will be a definite language barrier. I can understand wanting to give baby a head start on learning a second language, but if it makes general communication/conversation very frustrating and unpleasant; I feel it loses it's perk. Did you ever offer her an ESL course?
Of course I do not feel she should have yelled at you, but was there some truth to what she was saying? I feel there must have been. Also if I felt I was wronged in some way by my nanny family and my MB forced me to apologize, I would be SO gone.
I am not going to brandish you a martyr for employing this nanny for so long. I feel there is much more to this story then you're letting on.
This is the OP...I probably AM an annoying first time stay at home mom! To be honest,this blog has been very educational about how nannies feel about working for sahm and how hard it can be. As I said, I try to leave her alone when she is with the baby and when I'm with the baby I take her somewhere else so we aren't on top of each other. I am also the first person to admit I am not a baby expert and I look to the nanny for a lot of guidance. I ask her questions, want to know her opinion on things, if she says she thinks my daughter needs something .. A toy, a different toothbrush, different medicine,whatever, I am all for it. Of course I am not a saint and I'm sure I got on her nerves, but I definitely do NOT hover over her all day. I have to work. And she knew that I worked from home when I hired her.
As for the language thing, we spend a lot of time in Argentina and I thought it would be better to have a nanny who spoke the language so they wouldnt feel so isolated. Also, I thought she could help me if we had to go to the doctor and he didn't speak English or if we were navigating the grocery aisles looking for baby products. We aren't in buenos aides, we are in an area where nobody speaks English! And my husband is fluent in spanish so a lot of these conversations he was around and translating to make her understand I wasn't trying to criticize her work. Plus, I am learning spanish.
Look, nobody is perfect..I definitely have had a laugh with the nanny because I thought my babies cold meant she has typhus and had to be rushed to the hospital (I'm joking, please dont take that literally). As a nervous first time mom I am just trying to do the best I can.
To the poster who said that I was probably crying because when she accused me of not spending enough time with my child that it was probably true..of COURSE it is true! Geez, I work a lot of the day. I have someone else living in my house taking care if my kid. Do I spend as much time with my baby as I would like to? No. Does that make me sad? Yes. But I need to work. And I think full time moms are amazing but I also need the support of having an experienced nanny as I don't have any immediate family around to help or question. My theory is it takes a village and if the child is loved by everyone who takes care of him/her then maybe it will make up for mommy not being there 24 hrs a day. There is so much guilt that comes with being a parent. And being a nanny is such a hard job. I see so much on this board of immediately pointing fingers/passing judgement of the other side. I hear nannies bitch about their employers and I listen to my friends complain about their nannies. I wish everyone could just try to see the other sides' point of view and be united on raising happy, healthy little people.
OP- Ignore Moniker= big fat TROLL
Cheers to working together as a community to do right by our kids :))
Op - there are posters on this site that simply are rude, abrasive and accusatory - it hurts- it's simply what they do for fun -but be aware that the best rest of us- on this site ISYN - support you and your position - get away from this lady and run do not walk - she is the loseer not you - you are a nice sahm mom and you will find a nanny who appreciates you soon - and we hope you will tell us
katydid, besides yours being the type of comment I abhor, why is this post so hard to believe? You think every nanny is a perfect fit? You think every person is sweet as molasses? My story is slightly different but still in the realm of crazy but I know it to be true because it happened to me!
I'm English and have an Hispanic girlfriend, close to the OPs nanny's age (41) and the same thing happens with me. I thought at first it could be PMDD because like damn clockwork, every month, she goes on a tangent, and good luck to whomever is in her path.
Just this morning I asked a simple question, in a calm voice because that's me (AND now knowing about this "disorder" of hers) I didn't want to be a target, but she completely knocked me off balance and jumped down my throat! I walked away, literally crying, and that is not me. It takes a lot to upset me.
I stayed away most of the day but finally sent her an email letting her know I could no longer continue the friendship. Was it a language barrier? I'm not sure, I was always very careful to understand her and I thought, her understand me. Was it cultural (to her being Hispanic?) I doubt it, unless there is a unique illness that only inflicts that race.
I happen to simply think she (and probably OPs nanny) have some type of personality disorder. I cannot take the severe ups and downs of this relationship anymore and I am mourning the loss right now of someone I cared for very much because she was so kind and good-hearted the rest of the time. I completely 100% believe OPs story and I sympathize.
Keep your mind open. We will never fully understand the workings of the human mind and its emotions.
OP-
just another thing to keep in mind, even though she may love your daughter and take great care of her; if she has this negative attitude at times toward you and your husband, it will come out in one form or the other toward your child. Not even that she would be mean to your baby, but do you want your nanny saying negative things about you to your baby?
Get a new nanny. You deserve it and your baby does too.
OP, all first-time parents are hugely annoying to the rest of the world (although I suspect that you are not as annoying as you say you are), and this is the way it should be. Parenting is about worrying about silly questions and making your own mistakes. You need to learn to trust yourself.
OP- When will you be back in NY? I am a Nanny in NJ but would love to move/travel =) You sound like a great MB. I'm sure you won't have a lot of trouble finding a new nanny, but if you are still looking, I am 25 years old with a lot of experience and great references.
I think it is awesome the way everyone is already trying to apply for this job. OP, you sound like a really good boss and I think many of us would love to work for you. If I'm ever in London, maybe I'll look you up!
I completely agree with the posters who have cautioned you that this attitude might impact the quality of care. I consider myself to be an excellent nanny but after a year of mistreatment from the parents I found myself not being the best I could be. Now I don't mean that as if I were harming the child or having a nasty attitude with the child, I mean I just didn't go above and beyond the way the child deserved. Instead of planning some intricate project we colored or things like that. That was a large reason of why I finally left the job, because I realize that the children we keep deserve the absolute best and if I wasn't able to provide this then the children need another nanny. It sounds like I am a little more mentally stable than your nanny though, so she may not come to that conclusion, leaving you with no choice but to let her go. Best of luck in finding a nanny you can bond with, it makes a HUGE difference for the nanny, children and parent.
You sound like a great mom, OP. That nanny is bad energy and you are right to let her go! It rattles me to think of how she might treat the baby as he/she gets older..so much emotional manipulation!
Also, not sure if you were serious about the nanny job, but I'll be in London looking for jobs starting next month, and I would love to meet with you if you are still looking for someone! I'm hoping to look for jobs as soon as I land. I worked as live-in for my last family for 5 years, so would love to chat!
OP ,it is not you, it is the fruit cake you hired to watch your baby. Dump her. Give her 2 weeks pay and put her in a motel and get rid of her. If she hates you and has these rage problems you do not need or want her around a baby that cannot talk. Ignore the other fruit cakes in here that want to blame you for her BS. Of course you do not spend enough time with your baby you work that is why you hired someone. There isn't anymore to the story. As for you paying for a shrink for her?? WHY? It is not your responsibilty.I am sure she has had this problem for a long long time. Please don't pay any attention to the wanna be shrinks in here lol Trust your gut feels as a mom and do what you think is best for you and the baby. No one needs an enemy living in their home.
I haven't read the other comments yet.
If I were you, I would've kicked nanny to the curb the first time she decided to flip out (without reason); the "evil mommy" thing would've sent me into rage. Good thing it wasn't me. Seriously, take your "self-respect" and your money and find yourself another nanny. There's no need for you to deal with this and there are plenty of good nannies available (ahem, ahem, toot toot). All jokes aside, I would not want someone so unstable around (or living with!) my family. Your friends are right in saying that is not normal behavior and I kind of think the nanny now knows how far she can go because you guys have been allowing this nonsense for 5 months. Get rid of her. It's time.
Ok, just caught up on all the comments. Glad she's gone!! Admit it, you feel MUCH better now ;o)
She isn't safe. Fire her. She has mental issues & can not control her anger. This is a high risk situation.
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