Saturday

CL - WTF?

CL-WTF on ISYN Saturday, April 11, 2009
.... What?!

1) Blessed is my Baby sitter (Detroi)
The ideal person for this position will be loving, caring, kind, open minded and gentle. She will also be social, inspirational and know our lord and savior jesus christ as her personal savior, she will have hit rock bottom on the verge of being homeless, she will have been victimized, lied on, cheated on, and discouraged in many ways. she will be strong, understanding and compassionate about herself and others. she will have learned from her mistakes, but untouched by them at the same time.She will have a desire to rise above her despair and have the courage to make the neccessary sacrifices to achieve her dignity through her primary focus and willingness to find contentment in her personal rightousness. She will have common sence and will not be discouraged by the fears that others seem to magnify through what they think ' might be in her best Interest. God, must be present in her heart as she makes her decision while in transition. If you feel that this sounds, much like you' than you may very well be the person that we are looking for. we are a christian family deeply rooted in a non denominational faith, as christ as the head of our house hold we are currently seeking a ( live in baby sitter ) who will love and care for our only son, we will offer you room and board in exchange for these services, as well as a vehicle and cell phone for the purposes of transporting our son to all appointments, also if you are employed in the evenings and or weekends you will have use of one of the vehicles as well, the hours will be monday through friday 9 to 5, you will have saturdays and sundays off. Our reasons for choosing someone down and out is because we are compelled by the spirit of God to help others in despair, who are in need of true help, someone who will eagerly appreciate our concearn and interest for their personal welbeing, we are not perverts or psycho people looking to violate or extort youg women and we are not gay or intersted in the indulgence of a third party freak. We place our ads where ever we chose because we are adults obeying the word of god, and although the devil displays his disgust through the demon oriented mortal man, we will triumph as you have in over coming your past experiences. this position is not intended for people who do not follow the word of god, nor is it intended for those who seek money for their services. The housong and job markets are bad in many places, and we understand the strees, pain and hardship on normal, regular, average, every day poor people, we cannot save the world, nor can we help everyone in need, but our mission is to pass on the love and care to others, in hope that it will make a diffence in their confusions, a difference in their lives, their goals and the hope that live deep within. More often than i care to admit' it seems rather alarming to find the level of negativities amongst those" who seek their passions in life. It's almost' as if ' they are searching for something' special' and when they find whatever it is that they are looking for " they simply" discard it, with a vengence, a plague, often administered by the workings of demons all around them, remember the story' little boy who cried wolf" what an interesting concept. The average person' works a 9 to 5 job, and when their paycheck, is recieved' they go out and spend it on their bills, and whats left, is barely enough to get by on' owe' yes' they truley mean well' and will spend years in that circle, simply becoming use to their fundamental attempt to grasp a difference in their bank account and or rationalizations for fear, and their ever present loved ones. It seems that the only way out is an ice cold beer, vodka and gin, 520 friendly, a pack of newports and relentless desires and passions for sex, the hot guy or the hot girl. God takes a back seat until, the end is almost near. we send this message in peace and love, if you want a job. lets us know. we live in Boston, get a one way ticket, and we will be there" praise the lord.
Original URL: http://detroit.craigslist.org/kid/1086069350.html
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Special thanks this week to: Amy - for our Feature Ad, MissDee, Michelle, austinmama, philly and nc... all of you did a great job! Remember: CL-WTF will be Posted every Saturday... please send next weeks Ads HERE.

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70 comments:

  1. #1 sounds like Carrie's mother, you know from the movie Carrie?
    #6 nanny must be named Creamora!
    What's wrong with #25?

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  2. Nanny Taxi
    I forgot to add the compensation, lol. Thanks for catching that! :)

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  3. LMAO @ #1 -520 friendly? dude you guys are an hour late! HAHAHAHA!

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  4. LMAO! Yeah, I caught that.. good one glamnan!

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  5. Ugh, the single dad ads are always so skeevy. Do y'all who find these ads ever see single dad ads that aren't skeevy?

    It's like every one of them has delusions that they are going to find some nympho-nanny hybrid out there who's willing to work for the privilege of slobbing on dad's knob after putting the li'l darlings to bed.

    Just gross.

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  6. #14 can afford a LOT more than that. That area of town is the 'rich' area of town and I wouldn't work for less than 1000 a week in that area.
    The homes in that area are million dollar homes.

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  7. The religious people who want to 'help' by working someone like a slave without paying them reminds me of certain religious people who, instead of leaving an appropriate tip at a restaurant, leave a religious pamphlet. Cheap in the name of religion. Thanks, but no thanks.

    It's amazing that people think they are helping others by not paying them.

    And to the nanny seekers, board is food. Room and board means room and food. No need to offer both board and food.

    Did anyone else notice the horrific spelling, poor punctuation, and sentence fragments? Assuming these posters went to high school, what did they learn? It's wasn't how to compose.

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  8. glamnan. I know that cracked me up. 520 friendly. Awesome.

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  9. #1 and #3 are the same people. They both want someone down and out, have one son and live in boston. Only difference is the religiousness and in #3 they can drink. And why is it in San Fran Bay area craigslist and then they talk about getting out of Iowa and they want someone from Arizona. That makes no sense, so obvs. their nuts (also like #1) I don't know it seems too similar. I have a bad feeling about these people.

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  10. @ Village

    I totally agree with you that the spelling and grammar in these ads are atrocious.

    1) - if you are listing on Craigslist you are online, if you don't know the spelling, just google it, then copy the correct spelling if you need to. (ex. - I didn't know how to spell atrocious)

    2) - IIRC from the couple times I listed on Craigslist, you are able to edit the ad if you need to. Mistakes are kinda understandable if you can't edit your post, but they CAN edit...

    argh!

    I'm no perfect poster when it comes to spelling and grammar, but jeez, if I was posting an ad to hire someone, or be hired by someone, I'd take the time to proofread what I wrote.


    --- and for entry 1 - the religious one - these sound like the sort of people who try to become foster parents so they can "save" someone - but the sav-ee ends up being locked in a closet and beaten with decorative crucifixes (as opposed to actual crucifixes?) - I'm guessing they tried that route but the local foster care system turned them down.

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  11. Number one and number three ARE the same person. Look at the e-mail address. Soooo they are VERY misleading in the second ad aren't they. They must be posting in different craigslist all over the country. I bet if you check Iowa craigslist or Arkansas craigslist you will find similar ad's.

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  12. @ Isha

    Did you read this line in number 1:

    "We place our ads where ever we chose..."


    --

    Sounds like someone called them on the fact that they post in a few different places. But he explains why they place the ads all over when he continues with:

    "because we are adults obeying the word of god, and although the devil displays his disgust through the demon oriented mortal man, we will triumph as you have in over coming your past experiences."

    --
    ahhhh, now it makes sense. I kinda figured that was why...

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  13. Maybe one of us should e-mail #1 the following:

    Dear Craigslister,

    Please leave the nice nannies alone.

    Thank You,
    God

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  14. Wow, some googling of number 1's email gets me a phone number, googling the phone number leads me to this:

    http://us.anuncioo.com/jobs/offering/media-marketing-sales/massachusetts/framingham/acn-video-phone-represenatives-wanted-framingham-1246061

    ACN represenative is now hiring students in Boston MA. All you need is a plane ticket and some English."Thats Right"I am giving a few studens the oppurtunity to come to Boston and stay at my home and work as a ACN Rep. ACN is the first Video Phone service in the U.S.A. and is now willing to train, house & feed anyone who is willing to take a leap into the future in America and become a top sales person for ACN.

    --- And then the guy calls himself a doctor. Creepier and creepier...

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  15. Wow, and googling another email that turned up I get THIS:

    http://www.google.com/search?q=%22steviedwilliams@hotmail.com%22&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7ADBR

    --- a whole bunch of other "nanny" ads that he listed...

    wowsers....

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  16. Village

    I know what religion you are talking about. And I am part of it. No I don't leave pamplets. I leave a 20% tip if I have good service. If the service is okay I still leave 15%. Because I know they get a lousy $2-3 dollars an hour. And they have to survive

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  17. Snoopy...woah....the weirdest part is that every one is so specific in what they are looking for. Some want Asian for example or Cape Verdean. Some talk about the religious thing and some don't. There is even one on Mexico craigslist.

    How big is their house if they are going to house students and a nanny. I mean they are searching worldwide. It's just too strange.

    I just hope there are no ill intents involved with this, cause it seems like they are "luring" people in if you ask me. Creepy

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  18. Ok, now I see what's wrong with number 25. You know what? A family I know asked me if I can come work for this summer. 4 kids ages 9,7,6 and 2. 3 boys, 1 girl. All kids involved in summer activities. Lots of driving around. Employer pays for gas. I lowballed them at $350, $400 wkly and they said I scared them away with such a high salary request! Nope I think I'll stay working part time with my current employer. 1 kid.

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  19. What e-mail address Isha? I read both and didn't see one. And although both ads are similar, I think they are by different people.

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  20. I'm shocked that no one is picking apart number 2! Wasn't there someone last week that said they thought this homeless nanny was a scam artist? Well, they nailed it! And her ad is still up!

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  21. Oh figures, I just went to check it again and it was taken down by the homeless nanny herself, no matter, the ad is in last weeks CL-WTF.

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  22. Um what about the one selling a kid or putting it down and the police didn't care?? WTF

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  23. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  24. ok so my curiosity got the best of me and I emailed ad #1 and got a phone number the area code and first three digits can be traced to Framingham, Massachusetts. The number also showed up in a Google search for a rental type site

    http://www.bostonhomestaysearch.com/host_profile.php?ID=126

    The whole thing seems very strange. Be careful nannies!

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  25. world's best nannyApr 12, 2009, 2:12:00 PM

    Hi Bella,
    That was me. I said she was a scam artist! This is what someone said about my observations.

    another keen observer said...

    WBN
    Ever the pessimist..

    Nope. I just been around the block too many times not to hear B.S. when I hear it. or in this case read it.

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  26. Thank You Said . .

    I was talking about the southern religion.

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  27. a southern religion.

    Sorry for the type.

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  28. @ SM

    The emails aren't listed here in the post, you have to click over to the original url on craigslist.

    1 and 3 both use decoder101@hotmail
    - which in itself is odd because craigslist lets you choose not to list your own email...

    @ my moniker...
    yes it's very very strange... and that he (or they) are looking for people - young women specifically who are down and out with nowhere else to turn makes it seem like he's surely up to NO good.

    And judging from the pics in most of his ads, the home is a standard size (smallish) apartment.

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  29. I have to ask what is 520 friendly?

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  30. cali mom:

    It's actually supposed to be 4:20 - which is slang for smoking pot. If somebody says, for example, "you down with 420?" they are asking if you smoke. The ad poster missed it by an hour.

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  31. OMG, #5. She seriously believes that she is teaching an 11 wwek old baby to POTTY TRAIN? I guess she'll be in potty training mode for the next 5 years straight then. Serves her right! And yeah, she'll get a lot of responses with her tone. Not.

    I've never been able to figure out how to reply to posts on CL. How do you do that?

    And it's sad, but for all the angry nannies commenting to posts that are offering $3/hr or whatever, someone desparate, unqualified, and probably illegal, will apply for the job, and get hired.

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  32. Ah, thank you Big Bong!

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  33. I have had family friends who practiced infant potty training and assisted an employer with training her infant. It does sound weird and good luck finding a nanny patient enough to do it for you, but it REALLY does work!

    Click on my name to follow the link to a popular infant potty training site

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  34. Cali Mom - Replying to a CL post is just emailing them from your own email. They either list their email or chose an anon email through CL which forwards it to their email. You copy/paste it and email it from your personal email. There is no 'reply' button or anything.

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  35. @DenverNanny:

    I read that website.

    ...it's really creepy. LOL.

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  36. What I don't understand about that infant potty training thing is if you start at 6 months and they say it takes about two years of constant working at it, couldn't you just start potty training your kid at 2 years old and have them grasp it in 6 months? I mean is there any real proof that for the first couple years until their of normal potty training age that really its just luck and the baby has no idea whats going on?

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  37. Ha ha ha #1 said 520... she is really really in the dark about a lot of things

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  38. Jaqueline:
    Based on how I used the method, you're essentially classically conditioning your child to pee.

    In Pavlov's experiment, a bell was rung each time before the dog was fed and eventually the dog salivated when the bell rang. In this case, using cloth diapers, I made a "ssss" sound every time I felt the baby pee. Then, eventually, the baby pees whenever you make the sound... So you can set them on a potty chair as soon as they can sit up and YES-- they will walk to the potty when they can walk. So, if done properly, the average 11 month old could be potty-trained.

    Especially if using cloth diapers for the first year, infant potty training could save thousands of dollars on diapers & wipes--along with saving quite a bit of space in the landfills. This also helps avoid the child getting "used" to diapers (part of the challenge with traditional potty training) and your child's potty trained BEFORE hitting the "terrible twos".

    I would be hesitant to try theis method as a nanny-- Just because it takes near-perfect consistency and that's often hard to achieve. However, I know I'll be using cloth diapers on my children and prob use this method as well.

    In all honesty, even today I'll make that "ssss" sound when I can't make myself pee! Works like a charm...

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  39. Thanks for decoding the "520 friendly" part. I was just about to ask. I guess I am old. When I was a kid, peole just asked, "Do you smoke pot?" Ahhhh...such a simple time.

    I only read #1, but what a fruitloop! How considerate of them to help a down and out person by letting them work for them for free. True Christian charity at its best. I know at our church they are always encouraging us to let homeless people come work for us an not pay them....NOT.

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  40. just another mommyApr 13, 2009, 8:39:00 PM

    #1 sounds like he's in a cult trying to get a bunch of young girls together. I wonder if we'll see a big suicide pact go down in a couple of years in Farmington, Mass. Then we'll all look back and think, "Oh yeah, I remember that guy's ads.

    Scary, Scary, Scary!!!


    And the baby selling one, that was weird. Was the person who placed the first ad trying to be funny? Because threatening to murder a baby is not a joke and I do hope that the police actually follow up and can take the baby away based on that information.

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  41. #18 really annoys me. I'm 18 years old and I never get paid minimum wage (7.15 where I live) at the daycare where work I get paid $5.85 (legally) and when I babysit I get paid $3 an hour. The parents can't afford more and it doesn't bother me. It's nice that people want everybody to be paid more than "slave wages" but when the parents only get minimum wage themselves how do they afford to feed, clothe, and house themselves and their child if they also have to cover child care at the same pay they're earning? I know some say "well don't have kids if you can't afford them" but it's obviously not that simple and why should the rich be the only ones to have kids?

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  42. My Moniker---I went to the home for rent web site. How can this person be legit. They change thier values and beliefs on every ad. And that picture looks like one off of a brand new picture frame!

    The pictures DO look exactly like most apartment homes. I don't think I have ever seen a luxury home that looks like that.

    I can only deduce that this person is attracting people to his home (especially down and out ones) to exploit them in some way. In fact I can't imagine a different scenario. So honestly I feel afraid for whoever answers the ads and I hope that there aren't a bunch of dead bodies in a basement in Massachusetts.

    Hope we didn't uncover some sort of awful horror.

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  43. Isha,
    This reminds me of Charles Manson for some reason. I guess recruiting young girls with nowhere else to go and twisting their minds into believing God Knows What. No decent religion I know of talks about gays, or anybody else, the venemous way this guy goes on to do after he is finished going on and on about what a stellar Christian he is.

    And what's scarier is that no normal, thinking person is going to answer this ad. Anybody who answers it is going to be the type who already lacks good reasoning and discernment skills...so they will be all th emore likley to go for whatever crap he feed them.

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  44. A search of the email for #1 also gives this Craigslist ad...

    http://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/com/1114216525.html

    Scary.

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  45. Ok, so a further look into #1, this person claims to be a Dr. Steve Williams from Boston but when you look up that Dr. online you get this guy:

    http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bu.edu/cms/www.bumc.bu.edu/rehab/files/Images/SteveWilliamsMD.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.bumc.bu.edu/rehab/our-training-program/&usg=__0Q-wjEkHskx1aqAkuiz86j6f1Gw=&h=113&w=100&sz=14&hl=en&start=4&um=1&tbnid=o_kiLVQf6Fk8kM:&tbnh=86&tbnw=76&prev=/images%3Fq%3DDr.%2Bsteve%2Bwilliams%2Bboston%26hl%3Den%26um%3D1

    Not the happy little fake family from their home rental site. This is getting creepier and creepier!

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  46. 1 and 3 are so creepy...the fact that he says to buy a 1 way bus ticket. Wow. I am genuinely scared for the women who might respond.

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  47. just another mommyApr 14, 2009, 9:09:00 PM

    I really am starting to wonder now if we should report this guy from #1 and #3. It seems to me that we've uncovered quite the operation going on and that this is not normal. At the very least, maybe craig's list will take down all of his ads.

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  48. Just another mommy, I was thinking the same thing. But I wouldn't know how to go about it. Any ideas?

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  49. Isha, you can "flag" postings on CL and the administrators will decide if they violate certain terms.

    Simple, I answer postings all day on CL, but I meant that sometimes here and on CL itself, I will see an ad posted, and then a response to the ad, as if the responses are also appearring ON CL. When they're posted here, does that just mean someone here emailed the CL poster and then copied the poster's reply to this board?

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  50. @ cali mom, isha, just another, et al.... I wouldn't want to only flag it on craigslist... cuz he'd probably just place another ad. I'd want to report it to some higher up person of authority, the cops or something... a cyber crime unit or something, and I dunno if we'd have to contact boston or what...

    And the guy, whoever he is, isn't too smart himself... I read in one of his ads he told that his au pair of a *year* had to go home, and he needs someone to help with his 8 month old. -Does Not Compute-

    But who knows, gee, now that I think about it, maybe acting stupid, and putting his "actual" email on the listing, is just another way to make people trust him...

    I'll try to google some info on where something like this should be reported and see what the options are...

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  51. Yeah I was thinking that if craigslist just took them down or whatever than there would be no evidence that he ever did anything. I am not good with computers but maybe someone would be willing to put up a warning on the same craigslist as the ads are on. I dunno. It just feels a little wrong not doing anything. It keeps going through my mind that something bad is/will/has/had occured.

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  52. Okay here's an idea what about one of those cable crime shows, like Nancy Grace, aren't they always looking for tips. Would it be to much to link them to the stuff we found?

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  53. How about contacting the FBI? This is probably their jurisdiction and they probably have people on staff whose entire job is searching out these kinds of things. Call in with a tip. They'd probably take it quite seriously...and might have some way to track all of his ads everywhere he has posted them.

    Maybe you will even help locate some missing people.
    I watch those true crime forensic shows a lot. I remember a case where a guy was hiring young girls over the computer, luring them to other states to work, eventually murdering each one, and then going on to the next victim. It happens.

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  54. So I went to the Boston ad, which has a link to this site. http://www.freepsychiatrics.com/staff.html

    If you go to staff, there is a Dr. Stevie Williams.

    There's a link on the bottom of the site, for making your own website. It looks like this Steve Williams guy created the site. So the site in itself could be fake.

    And what a better way to lure in people who are in vulnerable and in need of help- through a psychiatric help service... CREEPY

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  55. Can somebody who knows enough about computers to get this guy's URL number, or whatever, please contact the FBI before he moves on and is no longer traceable?

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  56. Huh. I wonder if these are in any way 419 scams/"Nigeria Scams" - the freepsychiatrics.com site is clearly fake. The language is wrong, unprofessional, and often ungrammatical - not what a professional would put on the web. A financial scam is the BEST possible light for all of this, and you know craigslist is a home for many...

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  57. He also ran a fake "online dating" service, "My Own Kind Dating." They used to have a website, but it's down now. Still shows up in searches for the phone number. Dating, rooms for rent for signle students, free psychiatric help, live in jobs, live in nanny jobs - very troubling.

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  58. he also calls himself an actor. this page has pictures of him: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:gicJUP8WhzYJ:actorsville.ning.com/xn/detail/u_8f3xgdcdwsz2+freepsychiatrics&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

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  59. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  60. This is a video he made. He titled it "running from weed."
    So apparently he does know about 4...er..520...
    http://www.livevideo.com/video/DEAD6F13703D48E39FADC7F4E8A78F10/running-from-weed.aspx

    sorry for all the posts, i've just gotten so caught up in this saga...maybe he views all of this as some kind of acting exercise, but it is extremely weird and troubling.

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  61. I have been reading this site for about a year now on and off. I currently live in Japan due to my husband being in the military. We are moving back to the States in a few months and we will be looking for a nanny. This site has very good info. This post is very disturbing because many girls are taken from the states and other countries and being sold as sex slaves in Thailand and all over Asia. There are briefs regularly about this in our newspapers, etc. These people target runaways and people who are down and out. Just my two cents finally. :-)

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  62. I called the Boston PD and told them about these ads. There were 2 murders in Boston of women found on craigslist (not as nannies) and these ads just struck me as "off" so I reported them to the people working on that murder.

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  63. Thank you Katherine. I think that was a very important thing to do. You may have saved lives.

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  64. I think so too. Good job Kathrine.
    And that police department will alert even more authorities if they find something to this.

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  65. Kathrine
    Thank you for being pro-active. Better safe than sorry. Police Agencies are beginning to respond and take more seriously complaints on possible internet crimes, so let's hope they take a look into what's going on here with this man... something just does not seem right about him.

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  66. I cut and pasted the following headline from this morning's top stories on AOL:

    "Police Search for Craigslist Attacker"

    This is about a man in Boston who hires masseuses from Craig's List, has him meet them at luxury hotels and then robs or kills them. The suspect (seen at two of the murder sites on surveillance...so probably the right guy) is clean cut and nice looking. You really can never tell when dealing with strangers on the internet.

    For example, I myself just finished shaving my balls and having an S&M session. Not really...but it could just as easily be TRUE. People need to WATCH OUT!

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  67. Wow, I checked out the freepsychiatrics site. Two of the doctors supposedly graduated from the Bain MIller school at the University of Chicago. I googled the university, and they don't have a Bain Miller School there.

    Also, what physician website would list patient's full names with their testimonials? That is a HIPPA violation. And there is no phone number. Suspicious.

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  68. I am the one who forwarded numbers 1 and 3. I am in Iowa and that is where I found the first ad. Since it was so strange, I googled and found similiar ads posted all over the place. It makes me sick to see that someone is trying to scam people(most likely worse). Many people in Cedar Rapids lost their homes, and for someone to try to take advantage of people in a situation like that, It makes me sick!! There is also a man that is targeting this area. He is saying he is a contractor from TX(I used his info to google him, and found he also claims to be from NY)and that he will be in the area to work on flooded buildings(which is very possible). He tries to get you to meet him at a local hotel where he says you will be caring for his 2 children. He goes by the name Hicks Cowell. Both the number he was using and email are no longer valid. He gave his address as being 1850 blvd,Audubon ave , Dallas,Tx. phone #(951)-808-5834. email hickswell@gmail.com. He claims he has two 4 year old daughters and his wife die in some accident. I am sure he has moved onto a new name, contact number and email..his main purpose was to get you to go to a hotel..what a loser!

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  69. Amy,
    I don't think 951 is an area code in use in any part of the Dallas/Fort Worth area.

    Yeah Iowa! I was just there last week. I love it there and go as often as I have the chance. I was in your neck of the woods last year, after the floods. (Went east to see the Amana colonies.) It was a complete disaster! The farms looked like lakes...literally. I really feel for all you guys have been through. FEMA had booked every hotel for miles and miles...and all the rental cars at Des Moines airport had been taken by them too. Shame on this jerk for taking advantage of the trust you had all built in the flood relief people! Why don't the police simply answer one of his ads and arrest him?

    Oh, and one more shout out for Iowa. During the floods, IOWANS...some who had lost a lot personally themselves in the flooding themselves...all pulled together and donated everything they could spare to help one another. Those who had already lost much shared what little they had left with those who had lost even more! Nobody was crying that they weren't getting enough help or money from the government...they just did what they needed to do to make sure they, and their neighbors, pulled together and got through it. IMO, that's why we heard SO much about New Orleans in the news and so LITTLE about Iowa. Believe me, their plight was no less serious than what happened in new Orleans. They just didn't rob and hurt one another, so it wasn't interesting enough to get much news coverage...or as many donations from around the country.

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  70. As long as I'm on my (off topic, sorry) soapbox, you might be interested to know that Obama has screwed with the small farm subsidies that were put in place to help the small family farmer stay afloat in the midst of these big corporations who have gone in, bought up huge, huge masses of land and farmed it commercially...making it hard for the small farmers to make a living.

    All I can say is...time for another round of FarmAid concerts. I think Obama will not be happy until everybody is in such financial straits that we are all at the mercy of the government and willing to submit to practically anything.
    Oh, and good luck finding any ammo if you have guns in middle America. Starting the day after the election people starded hording ammo. Stores can't keep it in stock and people buy it as soon as it goes onto the shelves. Happy times.

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