Received Thursday, August 2, 2007
I saw an Asian nanny wearing a short jean skirt with two blonde twin boys at Wicker Park in Chicago yesterday 9/01/07. One of the twins was throwing a tantrum so she strapped him in his stroller and turned the stroller so that it didn't face the rest of the park. He was obviously distraught and was struggling to get out. She did this twice. Where in her right mind did she think that restraint was going to calm him down!!! She finally (after 1/2 hour of this abuse) left the park with the two boys.
You don't know why he was throwing a fit. He might be the kid of kid that throws himself around and hits or bites. I don't think it's a big deal, she put him in a time out that he couldn't escape until he calmed down it sounds like.
ReplyDeleteI meant kind of kid.
ReplyDeleteI agree, this doesn't sound bad at all...some kids need to be physically restrained to sit properly in a time out, and calm down.
ReplyDeleteWell it would bother me. If I was that child's mother, but I am not- so it does not matter. Nor does it matter that the two of you are aokay with this. Unless of course you are that child's mother?
ReplyDeletewould you have rather this be asighting about the nanny hitting th e child. she put in in the stroller to calm him i hope, of course sohe could have held him but ever so oftern as we all know kids throwing a tantrum will not let themselves be held and it defeats the purpose, so you have to kind of let them work it out by leaving them be. of course the real issue should be why he was throwing a tantrum dont you think
ReplyDelete12:14- huh? Is there a point for your comment?
ReplyDeleteAs for the original poster, you have no idea what was going on before you arrived. Was she abusing him? Hitting him? Screaming at him? Endangering him in anyway? From your post it doesn't seem like that. What did you expect her to do? Of course he was distraught- he was having a tantrum about something. And when kids are in time out, they are usually trying to get out of it, so it was smart thinking on the nanny's part to strap him into the stroller, so he could not hurt himself.
When my child is having a tantrum, sometimes the only way to calm him down is to walk away and ignore him for 30-60 seconds. I'll walk back, say "when you can stop crying and are ready to talk, I will listen, but only after you stop crying." If he still doesn't stop, I'll walk away again. By the second time I come back he is always ready to talk and listen.
Maybe you should have intervened and called CPS on this horrible nanny who was trying to manage her way out of a tantrum. Or here's a better idea, MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS unless there is a sign of abuse!
I can already foresee that this child will have severe claustrophobia later on in life and not know why.
ReplyDeleteHow old was this child? Whether this was bad or not depends on the tantrum too. if my 2.5 year old was throwing a tantrum and being naughty for no good reason, I might do this. It's called a TIME OUT.
ReplyDeletea time out usually doen't call for restaining straps. I don't call that a time out. That's what they do to mental patients in mental hospitals.
ReplyDeleteyes mental patients that are spazzing out and that may cause harm to themselves or others, kind of like a tantrum throwing child who could throw themself on the sidewalk and hurt themself or bite their nanny. This is just the way this nanny dealt with the tantrum but it isn't abuse.
ReplyDeleteRestraining anybody like that, unless absolutely necessary, is wrong, wrong, wrong
ReplyDeleteWOW...those of you who are against her restraining him are idiots..I have been there, done that with MANY toddlers and I have seen my fair share hurt themselves by throwing themseleves down on the hardwood, or cement ...I would have put him in a safe place to, his stroller and to keep him from falling out I would have strapped him in...no harm no foul. And the fact she left with them after a bit shows she knew the tantrum wasn't ending anytime soon so it was time to go, she didnt keep him wailing in the stroller for 8 hours. She's seems like a good nanny good for her!
ReplyDeleteThis nanny is just doing her job. I see no problem with her restraining him to the stroller since a)children are strapped to the stroller all the time for their safety and b)the boy was throwing a tantrum and needed the time out.
ReplyDeleteIf a mother did this to her child, people would call it tough love but since it's a nanny, people are more quick to judge.
Its usually the ones that dont believe in restraining him while in a time out that let their children rule the house. Kids cry, and throw tantrums, especially at their age... What else was she to do? With a whole playground at his feet he is not going to sit nicely in the corner.
ReplyDeleteYou're out of your mind if you think she didnt handle it properly.
What really gets me is.... In situations like these the nanny is usually doing what the parents have told them to.
It's hard to make a judgement call b/c we don't know the ages of the boys. This might be appropriate for an older toddler but not OK for say, a 9 month old.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it depends on the nanny's demeaner. The exact same actions could be done patiently/lovingly or it could have been done with hostility and cruelty. There's not enough information here to say which was the case.
So it's okay to strap a child into his stroller for a walk to the park for his saftey, but it's not okay to strap him into the same stroller while he's throwing a (possibly dangerous, flailing, tantrum) for his safety?
ReplyDeleteI'm so sick of parents who let their kids run all over them just so they can be temporarily happy. Sure it might work as a momentary fix to give him an ice cream before dinner, but what about after all those years of doing it, he wants to drive before he gets his license, you going to do it then so you can make him happy? So many parents forget that their job is not to only make their kids happy, but to also keep them safe now, and teach them lessons for later in life. Grow a backbone!
I think a stroller time out is appropiate IF it was deserved, but why turn him in the other direction? That's *ucked up.
ReplyDeleteSounds like everything the nanny did was right.
ReplyDelete1. She attempted to stop the tantrum.
2. She allowed the other child to continue playing (good to not create sibling rivalry)
3. The nanny looked frustrated... HOORAY!!!! She's got feelings... good for her!
If anyone thinks that taking a screeching and flailing child aside and waiting out their tantrum is "abuse" I would sincerely BEG you not to bring your children near me. It's called discipline and it keeps them from turning into manipulative little shits. Sounds like a great nanny.
5:17 - Well said, and 100% correct.
ReplyDeleteRight on 5:17 & 5:37 - I have done the same thing with my children. Putting them in the stroller and turning it around is not abuse in any way. You need to change the scenery to help calm themk down, why do you think that parents have time out areas? OP - you don't have a clue, do you even have a child?
ReplyDeleteI agree. The nanny was probably doing what the parents believe in, which is the time-out technique. It's especially difficult with twins because you don't want to punish one twin for the other twin not behaving and just go home. Multiples are not easy to take care of and I'm assuming the OP has no idea!
ReplyDeleteI'm going to strap one of you lazy nannies here in a chair and turn you in the other direction so you can ponder whether or not you've just been abandoned.
ReplyDeleteTwo twins you say? ah. I never would have guessed there'd be two twins.
ReplyDeleteAs for the rest of this ridiculous sighting, you need a hobby. She had 2 children and if one was throwing a tantrum, it was probably safer for him to be in his stroller so she could easily look after his brother.
Get a life.
OP do you have any idea what ABUSE is? Because abuse this is NOT.
ReplyDeleteNote that the nanny was not just dealing with the child throwing the tantrum, she had to keep an eye on the brother simultaneously. I think she handled a difficult situation in an appropriate way. Children are used to being strapped into strollers, car seats, and highchairs daily. How is this abusive restraint?
ReplyDeleteQuestion: those of you who don't approve of her use of the stroller for time out, how would you have handled him, and the 2nd child?
8:38:
ReplyDeleteWhy turn the kid away? No one bothers to answer, of course, because this part of the sighting is abuse.
You turn the kid away so they are completely away form the fun or action for a time out....the same way at home you would put a child in another room to completely remove them from the other kids until they can calm down and conduct themselves properly.
ReplyDeleteI's hate to see to see the behaviour of any of the children of you moms/nannies that think this sighting is abuse. This is soooo far from abuse.
ReplyDelete9:42:
ReplyDeleteOh. I got it now. I stand corrected.
FOr those who object to strapping the child in: have you ever put a definant child in time out. Often time, the child has to be chased down and put back in the chair a couple times before they will sit there. What was this nanny supposed to do out in public? Put both children at risk chasing the one having a fit? Get real!
ReplyDeleteanyone who thinks this is abuse needs to get real. this sounds like a simple time out NOT abuse. GET REAL. i applaud the nanny for taking action and keeping both kids safe.
ReplyDeleteThere is a chance the nanny was following her employer's instructions re: dealing with the child's tantrums. Perhaps they want him restrained while he works out his frustration.
ReplyDeleteThis is the WRONG way to handle a tantrum (in my opinion), but there are many people who think it's the appropriate thing to do.
Let me put it this way: I worked for a Scientology family years ago. They believed that an injured child should NOT be picked up, NOT be sympathized with or comforted and should be put through a series of Scientology "assist" motions in order to "handle" their injury.
As nutty as it may have seemed, I did my best to honor their wishes (I was young, naive & new to town) and follow their instructions.
But after a while it was just too creepy and I hugged the kids and got the heck out of there!
Good point you bring up.
ReplyDeleteA nanny has the obligation to herself and her own beliefs not to cause harm or participate in causing harm to a child. I have a nanny working for me now that worked for a family where she was encouraged, even applauded for mistreating the children, disciplining harshly and inappropriately and saying no. She told me she realized she was lowering her own morals to stay in the job to keep the mother happy.
There are a lot of bad parents out there. If they want your assistance in screwing up their children, don't participate. Run. Those children are going to remember you. When they are in therapy talking about all the people who stood by and let crazy/neglectful/abusive parenting continue.
This is a good time out.
ReplyDeleteTurn him away so he isn't staring at the playing kids and getting more and more upset that he is strapped down for time out.
And strap him, for SAFETY!! He is throwing a tantrum. He could so easily throw himself forward and right out if not strapped down. Or he is a runner, and she didn't want to chase him around and not be able to see the other boy while trying to put the first in time out.
She disiplined the child... I'm so sick of people acting like punishing a kid for being a brat is wrong. He knows not to be a brat now, and chances are he will grow up better than the spoiled terrors that belong to you calling this ABUSE.
So 12:58, what is the "right" way to handle a tantrum??
ReplyDeleteYou are missing one point, bad caregivers and parents effect bad behavior in children. I have witnessed caregivers and parents that antagonized the children just to get them riled up so they could punish them. A lot of sadistic people out of there. All the more reason to breastfeed the first 18 months of life, IMO.
ReplyDelete1:05, I'm confused.
ReplyDeleteHow does breastfeeding for the first 18 months stop people from being sadistic? (No, I'm not being snotty or anything. I know you can't hear my tone of voice for this, but I am truly confused on that point.)
another point is the parents of this child may not even be aware that the child tantrums like this. I am a huge believer of the fact that an intelligent person can handle children without letting trantrums get this far. How sturdy was the stroller? Maybe OP was concerned about child's safety in the stroller writhing around.
ReplyDeletelet's give op the benefit of the doubt as perhaps as she witnessed the incident, she saw something that troubled her or was not right.
The boy I used to sit for would be happy and playing one minute, then kicking and screaming the next.
ReplyDeleteIf he did something wrong and got told no or not to, he would throw a huge tantrum. It had nothing to do with how smart I am. It was to do with his parents letting him hit, kick, bite, throw things, and eat sugary foods (which they told me not to feed him.)
He often did it in public too, and when he did I plopped him into his stroller and he couldn't go play until he stopped screaming and sat for his 2 minutes of timeout for hitting/kicking/biting.
It is called punishment people. Not abuse. Not neglect. Should we let these kids do whatever they want whenever they want with no concequences?
Do you ever wonder why so many 11 and 12 year olds are in jail for murder? Cause they were raised being taught they ruled the world, and were above the law.
Can nobody say what the "RIGHT" kind of timeout would be in this situation?
ReplyDeleteWell, 1:04AM I would have given the screaming child a warning and if he continued tantruming I would have taken him and his twin HOME. Seems unfair for the calmer twin, but it would help him learn about cause & effect as well. I'd remove the tantrumer from any possibility of FUN and make sure he knew that this would be the consequence whenever he tantrumed. Followed by an official time-out at home (a minute per year of life) while the "mellow" twin did something FUN (reading, art, video, etc).
ReplyDeleteI've been a nanny for 20+ years and this technique works EVERY time...the child is shocked at first, then discovers that you're SERIOUS and in charge.
Children rarely ever tantrum for more than a few minutes after just one "GOING HOME" incident because they know the consequences are REAL.
Of course, the nanny in the OP may not have had her own transportation (or may have been following "employer's orders") so going home might not have been an option.
Yup 1:14.
ReplyDeleteTeach that twin that whenever he is mad at his brother, he can act up and have his brother punished by being taken home instead of him being punished himself.
Who can say whether or not he got a warning? This was the fair thing. He got a timeout and had to leave the fun and calm down.
1:18 AM, reread my post, please. The calm twin would continue to have fun at HOME while the tantrum-twin had his time-out.
ReplyDeleteAnd in case you were wondering, I've nannied for three separate sets of twins. I might actually know what I'm talking about.
So, the calmer twin should have to stop having fun there?
ReplyDeleteNo.
I have nannied for twins as well, and for sibling groups. If one child caused us to leave the others would be upset at that child for making them stop their fun, go home, and find something else to do.
Don't punish the one who didn't do anything wrong. The boy throwing a fit was punished. Timeouts work just as well in public as at home. Why make the others go home just for that?
1:21AM you know what you're doing! The go-home method is a classic and it DOES work.
ReplyDeleteI'm looking for a nanny right now and I'd hire you on the spot (doubt I could afford you at this point in your career though).
1:25AM, I don't think you get the point. But that's okay---there are nannies like 1:21AM who DO.
This is what the chatroom was for. why don't y'all meet up there & duke it out.
ReplyDeletelook up top
Thats okay 1:33. The families I work for like how I view these matters more than nannies like 1:21.
ReplyDeleteDifferent strokes for different folks and all.
1:33 I've used the Go Home and it worked so well I never had to use it again.
ReplyDeleteYou have to be willing to "inconvenience" yourself and the kids you're caring for sometimes so you can teach them a life-time lesson.
I'm surprised no one commented on the short jean skirt and whether or not that affected the nanny's decision to restrain.... *rolls eyes*
ReplyDelete'Not a sighting of neglect OR abuse......why punish the one behaving and go home? I have been to the park with 6 kids and if one doesn't mind they go in time out. If a toddler doesn't mind......a stroller for them! At home, they go sit in a playpen when they throw a fit. 'Same thing!
ReplyDeleteI just want to say that I do not believe in the GO Home method. think about it. You drive to the park, typically 10 mins away or less but still, you have to pack them up, unload them, ect. So if the kids do something at the park, and then you say okay we are going home,and THEN put them in time out, you are just delaying it and kids begin to think that it is okay. I believe punishment should be appropriate to the situation and should take place immediately following the action. So if I am at the park and my kids do something wrong, they get time out right away. Always in the stroller and always secured so they can't climb out. Kudos
ReplyDeleteHow very very interesting all of these comments are. I am the one who sent this in, in the first place. With that being said, I learned a ton from all of the comments and truly didn't think of all of the particulars in this matter. I think what bothered me most about the situation was how she faced the boy in a direction in which he couldn't see anything. I understand now, the points on how strapping him into the stroller could be viewed as a good thing, and although I don't think I could personally do that to my child, it will make me think twice if I see someone else do it in the future. I haven't walked in that nanny's shoes and don't know the background of the family and how they discipline. All comments were interesting to read - except for the one who commented on how I said "two twin boys." If anyone needs to get a life - you do- do you sit at your computer all day looking for people's comments to edit? If so - I am very sorry YOU have that much time on your hands. Pathetic.
ReplyDeleteOMG...1:05 Boob Nazi Alert! Some women can't breastfeed and the idea that children breastfed 18 months (6 months past what docs recommend BTW) makes them not throw tantrums is insane and unfounded.
ReplyDeleteI attempted to nurse, but had difficulties so both my kids were nursed only a couple months each...supplimented with the best formula. Neither of them behave like this in public and are both smart and well-behaved.
of crouse, an occasional tantrum is normal for ANY small child.
It's Baby Formula NOT Rat Poison!
She had on a short skirt and there were two twins??? Meaning four??? OMG. j/k! Get a life people.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your update on your feelings of this incident OP. Nice to hear.
4:13-
ReplyDeleteThe AAP recommends breastfeeding for AT LEAST 12 months. The WHO recommends AT LEAST 2 years.
How is someone a "boob nazi" for thinking that a baby should be nursed for at least 18 months?
And for the record, it might as well be RAT POISON. Formula is substandard, period. 99.9% of the women who "can't" breastfeed could if they tried a little harder.
Where there's a will there's a way.
My children are above average in everything and extremely healthy. What would nursing longer have done better?
ReplyDeleteI must be one of those poor saps in the tiniest percentage because I tried everything short of drugs that are not aaproved in this country to be able to breast feed. Where did you get that statistic anyway?
For the record, I was not saying they were a boob nazi for wanting to breast feed 18 months....the implication that doing so would prevent a small child from having tantrums was what was ridiculous. As is your comment that formula may as well be rat poison.
If I fed my children rat poison, they would be dead instead of the beautiful healthy children they are.
How ignorant.
I agree with you, most moms who do not breast feed and cry that they could not, just didn't want to make the effort. Being a parent requires making efforts and not putting yourself first...
ReplyDeleteIf you don't breast feed for at the least the first three months of the child's life (and dont have a doctor's excuse) you aren't a mother in my book. My sister adopted a child from China. And induced lactation and breastfed that child.
When there is a will, there is a way indeed!
11:46...well then I am glad "your Book" hasn't been published yet. You are beyond ignorant.
ReplyDelete1:02. I cannot believe you bought that hook line and sinker. So many nannies use that line because, think about it, it makes them sound like Mary Popins and it also provides a perfect excuse for the family not to call the nanny's most recent reference.
ReplyDeleteI have four children and I have interviewed over fifty nannies and I have heard this line at least ten times.
What are the chances?
How dare you tell me I am not a parent because I may not have breast fed. I carried those babies, cared for them, nurtured them. You are the most arrogant and person I have ever seen....and that is saying a lot.
ReplyDeleteYou are probably one of those Le Leche league freaks who think it is okay to breast feed your child until they are 10. And I am not talking out my ass here with the numbers...check out their website.
Moms who berate and demean women who can't breast feed, without even knowing the situation are unkind and lacking in empathy, That does not bode well for their children, well nourished though their bodies may be.
ReplyDeleteThank you! Finally a voice of reason.
ReplyDelete12:01AM...are you by any chance a Scientologist? LOL at you either way.
ReplyDeleteThis is the nanny who worked for Scientologists speaking...Hey,12:01 are you trying to suggest that I didn't actually work for a Scientology family?
ReplyDeleteOr that it wasn't frightening, confusing and hearbreaking for me to leave the children?
Or that I made it all up so I wouldn't have to give a reference while interviewing for my next job?
You have NO IDEA what hell I went through.
You have NO IDEA how upsetting it was for me when I was so young and trying so hard to be a quality nanny.
And you have NO IDEA that the Scientology family called and offered to give me both written and verbal references even AFTER I quit.
I may not have agreed with their way of life (it was NOT my cup of tea, to be sure), but I was honest with them and with my future employers about previous work experience, etc.
I really resent your assumptions. Think before you post next time.
The "chances" are pretty damn good, 12:01. Especially if you live in Los Angeles (a whole mess of LRonHubbarders in that city!!). So chances are good most prospective nannies have worked for one of them at some point.
ReplyDeleteHaHa I can't believe this has turned into a breastfeeding debate.
ReplyDeleteMy Disclaimer-I forgot to mention that I am not personally a user of the time-out technique when I previously defended this nanny's use of it.
ReplyDeleteAnyways, as far as the breastfeeding debate-my husband was born severely premature and had a lot of health issues as an infant and one of those was that he was actually allergic to his mother's breastmilk (as well as several formulas). So, don't always 'assume' b/c it might just make an "'a**' out of 'u' and 'me''. Ha! I love that saying!
Sigh. Not sure where my post ended up from last night...
ReplyDeleteFirst, anyone who thinks the nanny was being anusive has never actually been near a toddler fopr longer than 3 minutes, probably not even their own. Of COURSE the punishment (time-out) should immediately follow the misbehavior, not come 20 minutes later, and it's highly unfair and unreasonable to make the non-perps suffer for the bad behavior of one.
As for the ridiculous bullsh*t claim that 18 months of brestfeeding guarantees no tantrums EVER...bull. And it's just as ignorant to say that a mom who has tried everything and still cannot successfully breastfeed just "wasn't trying hard enough" and "where there's a will there's a way". If a couple who has tried for 10 years to concieve naturally and finally have to resort to some clinical assistance, do you pontificate that it's because they "just didn't try hard enough"?. There are MANY reasons, biological and medical why lactation, conception, and other bodily functions can be hampered. So that line of reasoning is utter bullcrap. It reminds me of those folks in Arkansas who just brought out baby #18.
Forgot to add also that it can be a good deterrent to bad behavior to warn a child that if they don't behave appropriately (whatever that is in the current situation) they will have to get back in the stroller for a period of time instead of participating in the current fun, playing at the playground, etc. If they still don't listen, then it's a time-out.
ReplyDeleteWow! The whole breastfeeding thing is just nuts. There are so many different reasons why some mothers do/don't nurse for a certain amount of time. I have a friend who wanted to strictly breastfeed, and I was by her bedside when she ordered the nurses to keep the formula away from her newborn daughter. Guess what, a few days later, she (the mother) got so ill and ended up on so much medication that she couldn't nurse. She was devastated, and I hope nobody ever tells her that she did not try hard enough. That would really break her heart.
ReplyDeleteAs a mom of 3, I am not a big fan of the going home technique. It punishes the other children who did nothing wrong. What I do is put the misbehaving child in time out in the park, but I use a different approach than this nanny. Trying to gather up the two children who did not misbehave while one is having a tantrum and inevitably producing a tantrum in the two who did not offend does not work. The tantrum needs to be dealt with immediately. Just as there is a "naughty step" at home, there is a tree we use as the "naughty tree" at the park. The offender sits against the tree with his back to the playground area. I sit on the grass a short distance in front of him where I can see he stays in time out while still being able to see the other two in the playground area. My middle child tends to test boundaries alot but this works for her. Just as in the nanny's approach, it changes her scenery, but she can hear the fun she is missing. It's very effective. I would not use the stroller, not because of the restraint issue, but because I don't want them to see their stroller as a negative place (same reason I don't use their room for time out at home).
ReplyDeleteWhere were you all when the nasty nanny took the twins to get ice cream and one of the twins knocked some ice cream on the floor. The nasty nanny took the cones away from both toddlers and plucked them in the garbage can. And not a single responding person understood why I thought this was so horrible.
ReplyDeletehttp://isawyournanny.blogspot.com/2006/10/cold-stone-creamery-sacramento-ca.html
ReplyDeleteGah. The nanny did the right thing. Consequence was immediate, it prevented the child from being hurt and allowed her to watch the other child.
ReplyDeleteThe problem with going home immediately is that if said child is throwing a tantrum because he doesn't like something about the park he merely learns that if he goes crazy when he doesn't like something; he gets to go home! Then we see kids like this in the supermarket, school, etc. By the time the kid hits school age he realizes how much control he has over his parents and becomes a royal brat because he wins every time.
Kids are brighter than we give them credit for. The point of time out is for the kid to calm down AND have the consequence of say, boredom and missing out on fun because of bad behavior.
Wow - all of you need to get out more and get a life. What a bunch of douchebags. I hope I get to meet your husbands someday because I'm sure they'll all be single soon.... and I'm not a nagging, whiny bitch like most of you. Can't wait to be your kids' stepmom!
ReplyDeleteROFLMAO, 12:30, you must be that snotty 14 year old.
ReplyDeleteI guess we should congratulate you on your good luck that you're not accidentally a mom yet? I guess if you had ever figured out who your own mom was you might have had better manners. Oh well.
12:30 LOL you are so right.
ReplyDelete