I was at the Bronx Zoo today (7/ 19/10), along with what seemed like a billion day camp outings. While most made no impression and a couple even made very positive impression based on the counselors + campers attitudes + behaviors (Happy Dragon, Tutor Time, + Asphalt Green- I'm looking at you! You seem to have quality employees!), there were two camp groups who made me worried for the children in them. The first were all wearing shirts that read "WES JCC". Most of the campers were Hispanic or African American, as were their counselors. There was an older Caucasian woman whom I took to be perhaps the camp director. They were split in to large groups, girls in one, boys in another. The female counselors seemed competant, the male counselors not so much- although the director woman stayed with the boys it seemed. I constantly heard the male counselors cursing in front of the kids, calling them liars, complaining when a child needed to be carried (the child was judging by size maybe 5 and obviously had Down's Syndrome). I don't think the counselors were trying to be mean, but they definitely need ALOT more training, and that JCC that sponsers the daycamp should be aware- I just can't find them on the internet. The second camp was "Ohr Avner Day Camp". Just awful. They had alot of very young children- and alot of VERY young counselors. At one point, I was next to 3 little boys, no older than 6-7, who were being watched by a girl who looked about 10. Granted, she seemed kind, caring, and quite diligent- but she was 10! Watching 3 younger children by herself! In the Bronx Zoo- in NYC!!! I kept hoping the rest of the group was around the sea lion enclosure, but not so much. They were completely on their own. (And yes, I was at least a mother's helper by her age, and had even babysat alone, but a home in the suburbs 18 years ago is quite differant than NYC, so please don't jump on me for having issue with her age.) The rest of the counselors for that camp were not much older, looking on average about 14-16...shouldn't they be maybe CIT's? Not by themselves? Because they obviously needed someone who knew what they were doing + more training, because the kids were running rampant (climbing up on ledges in phone booths, running through the wooded areas of the zoo). The interactions with campers by counselors that I observed tended towards negative + loud, without giving proper guidance or discipline. Again, probably not "bad", but in definite need of more training. I know these aren't nannies, but they are childcare, and people are paying money for their services + trusting that they are being well taken care of, so I wanted to let people know that perhaps these camps are not the best.PS- And for those that worry about it, most of the best counselors that I saw were male college aged counselors! Good work guys!
I see things like this all the time where I live and it drives me nuts. I wish parents would show up unannounced to field trips and see just how their daycares treat and act around their kids.
ReplyDeleteI've called and complained to daycares about their staff but when you see the director acting just like everyone else you know it's a waste of time
WESJCC
ReplyDeleteThat would be the Westside Jewish Community Center.
www.westsidejcc.org
I'm glad you mentioned the good ones you observed as well. I am a member of Asphalt Green, and will show the camp director your post.
No- I agree. 10 is too young- especially outside in the world. I would contact the camp where she was from- its illegal. The person, who watches the kids- have to be certain age- (16 or 18), have legal paperwork- signed when they hire in, and CPR Certified- would she know what to do; in an emergency?
ReplyDeleteManhattan Nanny- thank you for the website link, I will get in touch with them. And I put the good ones in there for that reason, hoping people connected to them (or parents looking for good camps) would see them- childcare, including being a good camp counselor, is hard work + I wanted them to be recognized.
ReplyDeleteNanny who agrees- I have searched on the web, but can't find a website for them. It seems to be a popular name, used for a Jewish educational program. Based on their apparel, the group were definitely observant Jews (if not Hasidic, very conservative). If anyone reading this blog finds me contact info for that camp, I'd be happy to be in touch with them.
How do you know that the girl was 10? If she was, I am sure she was not a counselor. Regarding age, you really cannot tell how old the adults are.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, by "cursing" what exactly was he saying?
Sounds like a bunch of typical summer day camps where the staff is underpaid, inexperienced, and overworked.
And you sound like a busybody. With all the observations, how did you find time to have fun with your child?
Camp is children taking of children. Sending your child to a camp you need to realize that.
ReplyDeleteAlso, it is very hard to tell how old someone is just by looking at them. I highly doubt she was 10... or possibly someone was nearby who was with them
Yes, previous posters, you're right...maybe she wasn't 10 (that would actually be illegal, since she's not legally employable), but the point is that she was very young and couldn't manage the group of children she was supposed to supervise.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, many times camp counselors are young, but usually they are least older teens or colleges students. And the level of competence needed for a field trip to the Bronx Zoo may be different than what's needed at their own facility.
don't 10 year olds need to be watched? why would you put a little child in charge of other little children? might as well pick a kid out of the herd and make them in charge
ReplyDeleteUsually with camp, since the kids aren't babies or toddlers, they come home and tell their parents when things are amiss. I know that my son and his friends do that...we hear all the stories!
ReplyDeleteAlso, the "counselor" may have been older than 10...she could have been 14. When I was 17, I looked much younger than I was. Unless you ask the person directly, you don't know their age.
ReplyDeleteI have a friend who is very petite and quite thin. She is 22 and was recently thought to be 12. I'm just saying, appearances can be deceiving.
ReplyDeleteAgain, people busting on the OP. I'm so damn sick of it! Why can't you assholes just take what is reported and comment on that instead of tearing apart the unimportant stuff? And if I hear the same question: "Well, how do you know.....?" I'm gonna scream!
ReplyDeleteLeave:
ReplyDeletethe reason is because everyone has an opinion and it will not always be the same as yours.
get used to it.
free country,
ReplyDeleteIt is awful hard to back up your own opinion when you were not there to see the situation. The OP is the only one who saw this and therefore others shouldn't butt in with unnecessary comments. Yes the girl may have been older than 10 but the OP felt that something was wrong with the situation and that is what prompted them to post it.
I also doubt this "counselor" was only 10 years old--I wonder if the counselors had left the kids alone and one of the older girls was just especially bossy, making OP mistake her for being in charge? Of course this is just conjecture and would make the situation even worse than it was!
ReplyDeleteDoesn't matter how old they were, even if these kids were of legal age, the point was they had no control over the campers and obviously needed training before taking children on a field trip. The parents need to be made aware because their children could have been put in danger.
OP again! Manhattan Nanny- I checked out that link, but it's for a JCC in L.A., so I think it's probably not the right one (unless they traveled really far for a field trip!). I've never known JCC to stand for anything but Jewish Community Center, but I'm starting to wonder if in their case it did, since I can't find any JCC that fits, not to mention that they didn't meet the typical JCC camper profile (please don't jump on me for that, just given the usual Jewish cultural slant off JCC camps, having an entire group of African-American + Hispanic campers seemed uncommon to me- + yes, I do know that Jews (like any other religion) are not just white).
ReplyDeleteAs for the "10 year old counselor"- Of course I didn't think she was an actual counselor! Obviously, some adult, or at least older teen, was not doing their job! I also have very petite friends, but I also have been working with children for a very long time, + trust me, this little girl had certainly not entered puberty. If the rest of the group was not far away, I wouldn't have minded, but they were not. I did not mention it before, but it has been in the back of my mind- the camp that the boys at least were from was a conservative Jewish camp, meaning all girls (+ female counselors) were wearing at least knee length skirts or dresses, + most boys were wearing yalmakas (spelling?) + had the strings of their prayer shawls showing (again, no disrespect, just not sure of the actual term). The little girl I saw in this situation was wearing fitted jean shorts + a tank top- which after thinking about it made me think she was not even part of the group. Out of the three boys with her, one was wearing the orange camp shirt + I saw later with the camp group. The other two boys did not have camp shirts, but both were wearing orange shirts (same as the camp). After thinking about it, my guess is the campers saw the sea lions + left, and this little boy followed the orange shirts that were near him- the girl + the two boys. (Again though, I saw no parents for these possible three siblings- perhaps their adult had gone off to tell a zoo authority that they had found a missing child while they remained in location?) I didn't put it together at the time, as I didn't see the camp group until later. This little camper even fell + scraped his knees while waiting with the other three- at which point the little girl made him sit + she rinsed his cuts with water from her water bottle- like I said, she was young but seemed like she was diligent. If what I am guessing is what happened, that camp group needs better training STAT! Losing a child at the Bronx Zoo??? They got off lucky by finding him with good people (even if they were young!).
PS- to those who think I am a busybody, nosy, or need to get over it- I've worked with children for a long time, + have the ability to pay fantastic attention to whatever child/children I'm with, + at the same time to be extremely observant of my surroundings...something you should be doing if you're spending time with children! Also, shouldn't one, as someone who cares about the well-being of children, be concerned if one sees children in circumstances that are negative? Perhaps I just have stricter standards about childcare than you do- for instance, I don't believe it is acceptable to curse in front of children, call them names, to jeopardize their safety- + I will continue to call out childcare workers (or parents, for that matter) who do those things. I'd rather be a busybody than be someone who observes + says nothing, to detrimental effect to the children involved.
Yes, OP, I was just thinking the same thing...that group you described didn't fit the typical population of a Jewish camp. I wonder if it could be a community college, maybe something in Westchester?
ReplyDeleteJust by the by, I've always heard the tassels called tzitzit/tzitzyot
OP, sorry, I jumped to the conclusion it was the JCC in Manhattan because it is on the west side. Their shirt
ReplyDeletelogo is J
Camp
C
I certainly don't want to dis the reputation of the Manhattan JCC unfairly! I've heard good things about them.
thank you so much, nice white lady! Those icky brown people sure do need people like you to tell them how to act in public. All your years guessing ages at the circus sure are paying off now, too!
ReplyDeleteExcuse me, Thank You So Much??? I sinccerely hope you are not implying racism on my part, as that is not what this is about. I also enjoy the way you assume I'm white. (I'm also guessing that you probably also think that I'm well-off or not a nanny.) Doing the right thing with children is something that is regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, sexual orientation, etc. As I stated, in one particular camp that I saw, the teenage male (African American + Hispanic)counselors needed more training, and that the woman who seemed to be their "boss" was Caucasian. Wouldn't that make her more at fault, being the adult responsible for said training + setting the tone for all of the kids (campers AND counselors) involved in the camp? The other camp that I pointed out as having questionable practices was entirely white. The camps that I pointed out as examples of well-run camps seemed to be racially mixed, with counselors who were for the most part NOT white. Also, for the record, the college age male counselors whom I especially thought were doing fantastic jobs- NONE of them were white. So, please, bring your racism paranoia elsewhere. Thanks!
ReplyDelete