Oh lord have mercy do I have a sighting for you. This nanny took the childs belt off the child and whacked the child with it across the back. Three times! The child was not listening, but STILLLLLL! This happened this morning at JJ Byrne Park in Brooklyn. I was so disturbed. I was going to call 9 1 1 but the nanny hit him with a belt to get him in his stroller and then jetted out of there. Ok, so this nanny had kind of cinnamon colored hair in a short style, but full, almost like soft curls, her complexion was medium AA, she had on no jewelry or makeup but a soft, wide face that was pleasant. Good teeth. Wide set eyes. She was wearing a white t-shirt that said Jamaica on it with some dancing people across her chest. The child was a boy of 2. Maybe 3. He had dk red hair, freckles, Anglo. Wearing a safari style short set, top and bottom matched and top buttoned up and had some safari netting accents. The stroller she was trying to get him into reminded me of a lawn chair because the fabric seemed thicker, like eighties lawn chair fabric, and was stripes of dark green, mint green and white. The body of the stroller was white and dinged up but the fabric part was new.
Monday
JJ Byrne Park in Brooklyn
Received Monday, July 5, 2010
Oh lord have mercy do I have a sighting for you. This nanny took the childs belt off the child and whacked the child with it across the back. Three times! The child was not listening, but STILLLLLL! This happened this morning at JJ Byrne Park in Brooklyn. I was so disturbed. I was going to call 9 1 1 but the nanny hit him with a belt to get him in his stroller and then jetted out of there. Ok, so this nanny had kind of cinnamon colored hair in a short style, but full, almost like soft curls, her complexion was medium AA, she had on no jewelry or makeup but a soft, wide face that was pleasant. Good teeth. Wide set eyes. She was wearing a white t-shirt that said Jamaica on it with some dancing people across her chest. The child was a boy of 2. Maybe 3. He had dk red hair, freckles, Anglo. Wearing a safari style short set, top and bottom matched and top buttoned up and had some safari netting accents. The stroller she was trying to get him into reminded me of a lawn chair because the fabric seemed thicker, like eighties lawn chair fabric, and was stripes of dark green, mint green and white. The body of the stroller was white and dinged up but the fabric part was new.
Oh lord have mercy do I have a sighting for you. This nanny took the childs belt off the child and whacked the child with it across the back. Three times! The child was not listening, but STILLLLLL! This happened this morning at JJ Byrne Park in Brooklyn. I was so disturbed. I was going to call 9 1 1 but the nanny hit him with a belt to get him in his stroller and then jetted out of there. Ok, so this nanny had kind of cinnamon colored hair in a short style, but full, almost like soft curls, her complexion was medium AA, she had on no jewelry or makeup but a soft, wide face that was pleasant. Good teeth. Wide set eyes. She was wearing a white t-shirt that said Jamaica on it with some dancing people across her chest. The child was a boy of 2. Maybe 3. He had dk red hair, freckles, Anglo. Wearing a safari style short set, top and bottom matched and top buttoned up and had some safari netting accents. The stroller she was trying to get him into reminded me of a lawn chair because the fabric seemed thicker, like eighties lawn chair fabric, and was stripes of dark green, mint green and white. The body of the stroller was white and dinged up but the fabric part was new.
If you were going to call 911, why didn't you? There is no telling what happened to that child once he got home. A picture would've helped other people and the police identify the nanny....
ReplyDeleteLet's not make the OP feel guilty. I think witnessing what she did and reporting it here was the best she could do, given the circumstances.
ReplyDeleteOP and others that live in this neighborhood, please post this siting to the parent boards and blogs so this nanny can be found.
I hope either the parents see this or someone who knows this child's family does. MissDee..maybe OP did not have a camera at the park, etc. Do not make her feel worse than she probably already does.
ReplyDeleteOnce while I was in the park with my daughter in her stroller, there was a guy who was drunk and staggering around the park. We left immediately and called the local PD. They appreciated my description of the man.
ReplyDeleteOP should have called the cops and still should. If you witness an incident of child abuse, you should call. If the cops laugh it off, at least you have done all you can.
I only said that because I was curious to know if she had time to get a pic....
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine how awful OP must feel after seeing this child get hit. I witnessed many years ago a child getting smacked inside of a grocery store and that vision is still with me.
ReplyDeleteOP, thank you for sending this in. All we can do is hope word gets back to the parents.
Great sighting! Post it on the Park Slope Parents board - that is frequented by parents in that area.
ReplyDeleteCalling 911 wouldn't have done any good, hitting a child with a belt isn't considered abuse unless it leaves marks.
ReplyDeletePoor kid :( I really hope the parents see this or someone else saw what this nanny did who happens to know the parents. My charge has made me so mad I wanted to scream, and I've had to count to 10 a couple of times but never ever ever ever ever have I hit her, let alone with a belt! That lady does not need to be watching any child.
Hey op, are you from the south? I just love the first few words you said Lord have mercy, that's something that's said often down here. :)
ReplyDeleteTC,
ReplyDeleteyou are mistaken. hitting a child who is not your own child with a belt is not legal. you can't do that.
da, no it's not.
ReplyDeleteI got into a confrontation with a lady at Toys R Us one time and she called the cops on me. It involved my 5 year old cousin who was misbehaving and a threat to spank on my part and the cop basically laughed at the lady. Now it did complicate things because the cop had to verify that I was indeed my cousin's guardian at the time (I had a note notarized by her parents) and he did place a call to my cousin's parents but that was it.
It is allowed if the parents allow it. In my cousin's case her mother did allow it, and for the record I never spanked her it was just a threat. It was the same for another child I used to nanny for. Again I never spanked him but the parents allowed it.
Found the link explaining it
ReplyDeleteIs spanking okay?
Texas law allows the use of force, but not deadly force, against a child by the child's parent, guardian, or other person who is acting in loco parentis. Most parents do, in fact, use corporal punishment (in the form of spanking) at least occasionally, and most do not, in fact, consider it abusive.
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/AG_Publications/txts/childabuse2.shtml
@TC: I feel very bad for you, if you don't know another way to handle a missbehaving child then threatening it with spanking.
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't matter how bad a child behaves, spanking or just the threat of it, shows off your poor raising skills.
Poor you, poorer child
tc, go back to school, you dumbass.
ReplyDeletea "guardian" or someone acting in "loco parentis" means a LEGAL guardian of a child. not a babysitter.
TC- you say yourself that you had a run in where the cops were called and then went through the effort to ensure you had the authority to punish your cousin by spanking him/her. That is likely what would have happened in this case, so calling 911 would have still done some good if the nanny did not have the authority to hit this child.
ReplyDeleteFrom the OP's post, it is clear that the authorities wouldn't have gotten there in time, in which case I do think they would be useless. So posting here was the next best thing, so good job OP!
I refuse to engage anyone who feels the need to curse.
ReplyDeleteLoving nanny, I don't feel bad for myself nor do I have a problem with spanking :) Besides this isn't about me this is about the op who witnessed something horrible. I used my story to explain that indeed someone other than the parent can spank a child with the parents permission.
TC, you ASSUME this caregiver had parental permission to "spank" (and I use the word "spank" quite liberally here, as most do not consider losing control, and using a seat belt as a weapon, proper disciplinary etiquette). Why do you make such a vast assumption? Simply because you have had permission to do so in the past?
ReplyDeleteI do not spank, nor would I EVER give my childcare provider (be it my sister, sitter, or the Pope) permission to do so. There are plenty of parents such as myself who are against spanking for various reasons. There are also plenty of parents whom are not opposed to spanking, however would not allow a "third party" to do so (this includes: nannies, sitters etc) in other words, only mom or dad can spank.
This nanny fled too fast for cops to arrive, but had she stayed and a call been made, perhaps when the parents were phoned their reaction would have mirrored my own. I don't even allow hand spanking, so the usage of a belt would have sent me THROUGH the roof.
Lastly, OP, you did wonderful to report this (and in these circumstances) what you could do. I'd like to second (or third) posting this permission on the Park Slopes parenting board. If OP does not return, can someone please copy and paste it in? I would do so myself, but am from the North and am not familiar with the board or the area. I do know one thing, this nanny needs to be found out.
** The word "permission" in my last paragraph, should state: "sighting". I'm doing several things at once, and managed to type the word I was saying out loud rather than the word I meant to post.
ReplyDeleteI am baffled as to why TC is defending this nanny. Are you insane, TC? and it is true that you were not correct in your assessment of a guardian. A guardian is a legal guardian, not a nanny.
ReplyDeleteYou have problems.
Good post, OP!
food for thought I never assumed this caregiver had permission to hit the child. Never once did I say that. re[read my FIRST comment. I said it was horrible the child was hit with a belt and that I hoped the parents see this
ReplyDeleteSome of you people need to go read my very first post. I never defended the nanny.
ReplyDeleteThis was my FIRST post: TC said...
Calling 911 wouldn't have done any good, hitting a child with a belt isn't considered abuse unless it leaves marks.
Poor kid :( I really hope the parents see this or someone else saw what this nanny did who happens to know the parents. My charge has made me so mad I wanted to scream, and I've had to count to 10 a couple of times but never ever ever ever ever have I hit her, let alone with a belt! That lady does not need to be watching any child.
Jul 5, 2010 4:18:00 PM
My 3rd and 4th posts were directed to da who mistakenly thought unless you are the parent you can not spank a child.
AGAIN I REPEAT I NEVER DEFENDED THE NANNY. I do not condone using a belt for a child, let alone a child who simply wouldn't get into a stroller.
tc,
ReplyDeleteI was not mistaken. you can't hit a child unless you are the legal parent, which means legal guardian, which means not the babysitter.
you are the one who is mistaken and misinterpreted the definition of "guardian."
The overall tone of your posts is indeed defensive of people and caregivers who hit their children. How can we take your opinion seriously when you yourself admit that you are biased and that someone called the cops on you??
Don't make me laugh. Run along.
I don't think TC was condoning what this woman did at all. I personally do not have a problem with spanking, though I would never do it unless they were my children. However, I believe it should only be done with an open hand and not with objects such as a belt, wooden spoon, etc. What this woman did was out of line, and I am truly hoping someone else will call the police or at least find a way to contact the parents. Thank you, OP, for posting this!
ReplyDeletethe only thing hitting a child teaches that child is that you are bigger and stronger and can hurt them if you want to. it teaches them that hitting is ok.
ReplyDeletepeople who hit children do not do it to teach children anything: they do it out of frustration.
in my opinion, there is never a time when it is ok to hit a child. with your hand or anything else.
repost for anonymous:
ReplyDeleteYou all are nuts. You're bashing on TC for something that he/she said, maybe it could be a simple mistake. Let's just focus on the OP and the terrible nanny who chose to berate the child.
Idiots.
Not sure why my previous posts didn't show up
ReplyDeleteA Guardian and a Legal Guardian are two different things. The simple definition of guardian is a person that takes care of another person or property. That means every babysitter, every nanny, every daycare worker, every teacher is indeed a guardian. That basically means they are in charge of the child at that moment in time. Now a legal guardian has more rights when it comes to the child, they have the right to decide which school the child goes to, where the child lives, what shots the child gets at the doctor etc. The passage that I quoted did not say LEGAL guardian. It said GUARDIAN, since it quoted the actual law that it was not a mistaken when it left off legal guardian.
Once more I will say I do not condone what the nanny did, in fact I said she shouldn't be working with children. There is absolutely no reason to hit a child with a belt because the child wouldn't get into the stroller.
Now the reason I threatened to spank my cousin was because I was holding her hand in a crowded store and she bit me to get me to let go of her hand and then she ran off. So yes I threatened to spank her if she ever did that again, now I never spanked her and never had to. It was a threat because I knew it would work to emphasize to her the importance of staying with me and not running off.
Spanking is hitting, you are EXACTLY right.
ReplyDeleteCongratulations TC. You succeeded in teaching your cousin that if she bit you, you'd hit her. And that the reason she should not leave your side in a crowd is because you'd hit her.
Never mind all those strangers, and potential kidnappers, and the fact that she wouldn't be able to find her way home and might get hit by a car and be hungry, lost, cold and tired. That's beside the point. The main thing is, kids should stay with their guardians because otherwise, their guardians will hit them. That's also the reaon kids should never touch a hot stove or run into the street. It has nothing to do with the dangers of fire or large heavy moving objects that could kill them in a split second. No, it's because mommy/daddy/babysitter/etc. might hit them.
TC:
ReplyDeleteI "get" what you're saying and it seems that many other posters here can't help but bash others, instead of logically and intelligently discussing the issue. Which, in this case, is not spanking. But just because certain posters feel the need to rake you over the coals...
A: To spank or not to spank IS up to the parents and some parents DO ask the nanny/caregiver to swat/spank for certain behaviors
B: Hitting a child with any object (belt, spoon, or otherwise) is abuse
C: Hitting a child in anger is abuse
D: Swatting/spanking a toddler's bottom when NOT in anger NOR with an object AND when the choice/consequences are explained to the child is not abuse
Calimom: Call CPS. Tell them you saw your neighbor swat her 3 year olds butt and lemme know what they say...
And before anyone fires back, spanking isn't the issue (or wasn't anyway) because OBVIOUSLY hitting a child of any age with a belt is NOT spanking.
ReplyDeleteDenver Nanny,
ReplyDeleteYou are joining in discussing the issue of spanking. So don't tell us not to chime in as well. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Cali Mom's opinion is valid. I happen to share it. She said spanking is wrong, and I believe it is. She never said she would call CPS on people who spank, she simply expressed disdain for them, as she should. I firmly believe that nobody hits or swats or spanks a child for the child's good: they do it out of frustration, anger, or fear.
Sometimes a mom is so scared that her child almost hurt themselves that they hit them out of that fear: that is not ok. It is not necessarily abuse, but it is bad, lazy parenting.
Thank you Denver Nanny
ReplyDeleteI will try once again to explain myself. This was not a discussion on spanking. This was a discussion on a bad nanny.
DA erroneously stated that it is illegal to spank a child that is not yours. I gave anecdotal evidence to the contrary as well as a passage from the actual law and a link to the actual law for anyone that wanted to read it for themselves. I also explained, hopefully thoroughly, the difference between a guardian and a legal guardian.
I know spanking is a controversial issue and everyone is allowed to have their own opinion on it but we should be able to discuss our opinions without being catty and resorting to cursing. Just like everyone has an opinion on breastfeeding vs formula and cloth diapers vs disposable and when to start a baby on baby food and what shots kids need. We all grew up differently and that shaped our views on so life and how we perceive things but we should be able to discuss our opinions like rational adults.
Once again I will state what the nanny in question did was 100% wrong and she deserves to be fired immediately for it. I do not think hitting a child with a belt is ever appropriate nor do I think spanking a child for not getting into a stroller is appropriate either.
TC, it's funny that you are "taking the high road" on this post regarding cursing when you have done it in the past. You also do not always argue fairly, but when it is you that is being attacked, suddenly the attackers are being catty. Oh well, maybe you were PMSing at the time.
ReplyDeleteI never said I didn't curse, but I never cursed at someone like what was done in this post.
ReplyDeleteYou have nothing constructive to add to this post do you?
Denver Nanny, I'm not sure what you were referring to, maybe you have me confused with someone else but I have never seen any of my neighbors hit their toddlers.
ReplyDeleteI do say however that the only people who would teach a child that hitting is perfectly OK (as long as the person they are hitting is smaller than them), are morons who should not be allowed to breed in the first place. And by hitting your kids, that's ALL you're teaching them.
CPS won't take kids from their parents just because the parents are inbred drooling morons, and the police also will not arrest people for breeding while stupid.
So Denver Nanny, do you then teach your charges that it's fine for them to "spank" their peers as long as they are using only their hand, that the physical contact happens only on the clothed buttocks, and the reason is that they need to make sure their friends are listening carefully to them and do as they are told?
ReplyDeleteIf you would not teach them this, then how would you explain your logic that it's fine for grownups or older kids to do this to younger kids? Or fine for parents to do this to children?
OP: You should have called the Police, pure and simple.
ReplyDeleteAs for everyone else, honestly can't you all grow up and stop the attacks? No wonder people don't post sightings as often anymore, everytime they do people are attacked or name called. MPP can you please put a stop to this nonsense?
Katlee85
ReplyDeleteWe encourage debate between the Posters. Sometimes it does get heated and the name-calling is out of line... but we are the most concerned with the OP's. We do not want them attacked because without them... there would be no ISYN.
Spanking is hitting:
ReplyDeleteSo do you express disdain for parents who chose to let their infants "cry it out"? (Or insert whatever other parenting philosophy you disagree with)
Calimom:
Obviously, I have no idea who your neighbors are. Suggesting you call CPS on "your neighbor" was simply a way of making the point that spanking is not abuse. Beating a child in anger is abuse. Despite whether or not you agree with spanking.
Regarding your next post:
Continuing along your excellent line of logic, you must allow your children to put their peers in time-outs... maybe you let lil suzie send her brother to bed without dinner?
Please...
(And no, I don't have you mixed up with some one else. Suzie and her brother are hypothetical as well.)
Denver nanny, I can only ascertain from your post that what you are trying to say without actually saying is is that you CANNOT explain your logic of why it's OK for adults to hit kids but not OK for kids to hit other kids.
ReplyDeleteOr maybe you didn't understand the question. Why is it OK for you to hit your little cousin but nok OK for her to hit her smaller sibling?
Did she not dare to ask you that question for fear that you'd hit her?
Why is it OK for you to hit your little cousin but not OK for a police officer to hit someone that they have handcuffed? Or is it OK because they are the authority figure? Would it only be OK if the police officer was a blood relative of the person that they were hitting? And then only OK if the police officer is older than the handcuffed person? Say, 20 years older? Or do they just have to be bigger?
Well TC, people teach their kids plenty of stupid things that are not necessarily illegal or abusive but that ARE stupid nonetheless.
ReplyDeleteWhy in the world would you NOT want a young child to understand the real danger of running into the street (or riding your bike out in front of a car suddenly?) is that the car could kill them? You'd rather let them think the reason they aren't supposed to do that is becaue mommy/cousin will hit them?
Driving a car requires skill, concentration, responsibility and coordination. (Also the ability to properly reach the pedals and see out the windows). Reaching out and whacking someone because words fail you does NOT. That's why 3 year olds are not allowed to drive and that's why you have to take lessons anbd pass a test before you are allowed to drive.
Cigarettes can kill you. Parents who smoke are teaching their kids that if you're over 18, it's fine to give yourself cancer and all the other diseases that cigarettes cause, and teach your kids that as soon as they turn 18 they can do the same. No, it's not illegal, and debatable as to whether or not its abusive for parents to smoke around their kids, but that's what they're teaching them.
cali mom said...
ReplyDeleteWell TC, people teach their kids plenty of stupid things that are not necessarily illegal or abusive but that ARE stupid nonetheless.
~~~~~~~~
That's your prerogative and that's why I'm happy to live in the US where I can teach my child anyway I see fit.
I already stated why I wasn't going to tell her running into the street means a car will hit her and kill her. Small children don't always understand what we say. They take things very differently that you or I do. She and I never had the talk about running into a street because I never had to but I would have told her that she could have gotten hurt running into the street. I will not scare her needlessly and tell her that running into the street means a car will hit her and die. Just like I refuse to tell her, as well as my son, that if they run away some bad person is going to kidnap them. My grandmother pulled that crap on me and until I was older and understood what was really going on in the world I was terrified that some bad person was going to take me if I wasn't near an adult at all times, or if I got within 100 yards of a street some car was going to kill me. I refuse to scare little children like that.
Ok. You refuse to "scare" them by mentioning the notion of actual reality, but you don't mind hitting them or teaching them to hit.
ReplyDeleteAnd yes, people do have the legal right to teach their children that people with a skin color different than their own should never be trusted, or that girls should have their private parts forciby mutilated when they reach the age of 11 out of respect for their "god" and their male relatives, and that if a husband hits his wife it's only because she "deserved" it. Thank god for freedom, eh?
Not sure where you are trying to go with the abusive husband and female mutilation because both ARE illegal and that has nothing to do with parents who do things YOU perceive to be stupid
ReplyDeleteAnd yes I refuse to teach my son and my cousin to be afraid of the world out there.
TC, for a husband to actually beat his wife IS illegal, obviously. But to ingrain the notion into your kids' heads that if it happens, it's only because the woman "brought it on herself", is not.
ReplyDeleteTo actually perform the "surgery" on the young girl is illegal in *this* country, but to teach your daughter that is her duty to God to let it be done to her, is not. To actually commit the act of rape is illegal, but to teavh your 12 year old girl that if she gets gang raped, it's because she somehow asked for it, and that if it happens, she is unworthy of life or parental love, is not. (There was actually a case where something like this happened and apparently no laws were techgnically broken by the parents but the girl was abandoned by her family after the incident.)
So yes, you are not necessarily breaking any laws when you use hitting to try and "teach" kids whatever you want them to learn, but my basic point is that, as Sopanking is Hitting said, the most basic lesson you are imparting to them is that hitting is a good way to solve your problems.
They are learnmiong by your example that you can do it to people when they won't pay attention to you. You can do it to people who refuse to do as they are told. You can do it when you are angry, if you are in a position of authority. Or if you are bigger and stronger than they are. ANd of course they can do it to their kids when they are grown-up.
Sorry for all my typos!
ReplyDeleteCali Mom,
ReplyDeleteI think you are wasting your breath on these ignorant people. But I agree with you wholeheartedly, obviously.
Calimom:
ReplyDeleteCould you please clarify something..?
I'm just trying to understand your last few posts.
It seems as though you trying to claim that parents who MAKE A PARENTING STYLE CHOICE to spank are as morally currupt and damaging to their children as parents who:
--promote female genital mutilation
--see nothing wrong with domestic violence
--abandon their daughter after a gang rape (which, btw, is usuallly a result of genocide/ethnic wars. Often the girl is abandoned b/c she was raped by men of a different ethnicity,which essentially deemed her "unworthy" by her family. Rape is used as a weapon specifically because the harsh cultural reaction to women/girls who have been raped by another ethnicity is abandonment. There was a case of a 8 y/o in the US recently, but it also turned out to be a family and a group of teens who recently immigrated from Liberia, an area with ethnic fighting. Please don't misinterpret this as support for this behavior, rather, simply trying to explain the history behind that specific case.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jul/31/liberian-arizona-rape-immigration
If I'm reading this correctly, I'm glad you aren't a judge. If a woman ran a red light with her kids in the car, you'd prob put her away for years for promoting anarchy--i.e. "teaching" her children to disregard authority...
Cali mom we all do things other parents deem stupid or irresponsible. Some parents teach their children that their self worth depends on the color of their eyes, the color of their hair, their weight and the clothes they wear. Some parents don't have a problem with toddlers playing with real guns, some parents don't make their children wear helmets on bikes or skates. Heck some parents put uncooked rice on the floor and make their child kneel in it as punishment. I may not agree with it all and some things I feel are damaging to the child but again that's why I live here in America where I am free to raise my child as I see fit.
ReplyDeleteIt's perfectly fine that you don't believe in spanking. That's your right as a parent (I assume you're a parent) to discipline your child as you see fit just like it's my right as my son's mother to discipline him as I see fit. I have my own guidelines when it comes to spanking, behaviors that warrant a time out, behaviors that warrant a privilege taken away and behaviors that warrant a spanking. I can say there are very few behaviors that warrant a spanking and they all involve dangerous situations.
Denver Nanny, you seem to have finally flown straight off the deep end.
ReplyDeleteTo both you and TC, yes. You may be within your legal rights to teach your children horrifyingly stupid things. Now get out there and have a field day. Because you can.