Received Saturday, April 12, 2008- Perspective & Opinion
I have worked with my family for almost 3 years now.
In December the mom and I sat down and discussed me getting a raise, since I had not gotten one in 2 years and they were expecting a second child. We did some calculations and she ended up telling me that she could afford $14/hour or $700 a week (at 50 hours). I have been paid the money quoted since January, but I wasn't paid on the books. I had requested to go on the books a couple of weeks ago and was told that we would figure things out.
Mom comes in yesterday and tells me that she is willing to pay $650 ($13/hour) on the books. I was surprised ... hadn't we agreed on $14 ... and hadn't they paid me $14/hour for the last 3 months? Whenever I brought up that we had agreed on $700 per week, she had some lame excuse ... mainly that she didn't know what I was being paid, as she was at home and her husband was dealing with the money. I am not buying that ... I am sure she knew exactly what her husband paid me every week (they have a business together), but she is just trying to find an excuse.
What should I do? How should I address this situation? I do not have a signed contract (she doesn't have contracts for anyone working for her), just her word. I have been counting on the money ... $50 a week are $200/month that I am not getting paid (I just purchased a new car and my car payment is that much). Any advice on this? Thanks!
As a nanny and not knowing any better...I did not have a contract...and lost vacation and
ReplyDeletesick pay because of it...ooh and
the family charged me to clean the
carpeting in my bedroom after I left it was deducted from my paycheck as well as cleaning the bedroom and bath....unreal....I didnt fight it I was soo upset
after it all happen....
soooo if they want to change your pay with no contract I would now
state to them about a contract
and job hunt in the mean time...
its not fair what happen to you but...its pretty standard what people will do...and most i think
will state here that even a contract doesnt help you either...
but its a start....and this women/boss she knows what you are paid and she is playing stupid....
but....communication is key and telling them that you have bills
and were counting on that money
might help....good luck
Stick to your guns, get it in writing, or leave. You've got plenty of evidence that they don't value your services - off the books, no raise in two years, going back on their word.
ReplyDeletePS-whether mom knew what you were being paid is irrelevant. She knows what they agreed to pay you.
Looks like you have three choices:
ReplyDelete1. accept the lower pay rate to get on the books.
2. keep the higher pay rate and stay off the books
3. start job hunting -- and make sure you look for a job offering a contract and paying you on the books
Girl... borrow a few hundo from the rents for about a month, WHILE YOU FIND A NEW JOB.
ReplyDeleteNo raise in 2 years!? And now she is trying to do this to you? LEAVE!!!
ReplyDeleteI also just want to add- $14 an hour is really not that much if you live out. If I were you, I would cut my losses and find a new job. You can find a family that appreciates you, and pays you both legally and fairly. Just try to leave on a good note so that you can get a good reference!
ReplyDeleteGood luck!
Your employer is not being honest, and is trying to take advantage of you. Why would you stay with someone like that? It will only get worse. Time to look for a new job, with a contract, and on the books!
ReplyDeleteThat is so odd. If anything they should pay you more on the books so that you are taking home the same. I would look for a new job.
ReplyDeleteI would try to renegotiate the higher rate that was originally agreed upon. Since you will be on the books you will be making significantly less than the $14 you were making off and going down to $13 is unreasonable. Additionally, you take care of two children for 50 hours a week - you should be making at least $14 an hour, if not more.
ReplyDeleteAs the employer of a nanny I truly believe your employers are taking advantage of you. If you cannot successfully renegotiate I would accept the current pay offered but immediately begin looking for a new job.
Good luck.
Why don't you do $650 on the books, the other $50 cash and job hunt in the meanwhile.
ReplyDeleteOr just do this off the books til you find a new job. But what ever you do, do not stay if she see's your leaving.. even is she offers you $700 on the book. Shame on her.
Stick to the rate that they have been paying you for 4 months, request a contract, and stick to that! You deserve it, and for her to be taking advantage of a nanny she has had for 3 years is absolutely wrong of her!
ReplyDeleteIf she isn't willing to go with you on all of the above, especially since she previously agreed to it, that is wrong and you should leave. She can still pay $700/week too with you on the books, but you will be taking home less. If you knew that ahead of time, then you should make it clear to her that you are aware of it.
If I were you, I'd start looking for another job. After three years if she still doesn't respect you, or keep track of how much you earn OR what you are truly worth, than it's definitely time to say "bye bye", and find someone who does. Because you will now be taking care of two children, one of which is a newborn, she should be offering to pay you more money, not doing everything in her power to "forget" how much you earn, and lower your rate-that's just unreal. I also find it a tad bit sketchy that she doesn't use contracts for any of her employees, without a "paper trail" it's a heck of a lot easier to screw someone over...no proof, and it's her word against yours! Move on, and ensure that this doesn't happen again- sign a contract, set your rates, and make all necessary needs known on paper!
ReplyDeleteI'll tell you, I know that MANY nannies get paid under the table, but kudos to you for wanting to get paid on the books. My employer offered me, 16/hour on the books, and I got it all in writing and when she realized that she had to pay a portion of employer taxes over the amount of 16/hour she was pretty upset. I ALWAYS tell families when I interview that I must be paid on the books and will require a w-2 arrangement. Some families are turned off by this, and some say, "Sure!!!" but a lot of families have no idea what it entails. Luckily for me, I had it all in writing and she had to go with what she agreed on. In your situation, it seems you can either leave, or sadly, take the lower amount. I would explain to your employer that you are disappointed that she was unable to hold up her end of the spoken deal. I would also let her know that while you have been with them for a long time, you do feel that cost of living is changing and you feel you are entitled to a raise. If she doesn't want to pay anymore, then you will be forced to look elsewhere. There is no reason to let someone push you around money-wise. If you let this happen this time, you will NEVER get a raise from her in the future. Once you let her think you'll be a door mat, you'll never recover.
ReplyDeletepersonally I would not take a job that was under the table. it is not a good habit to get into. also, it is illegal for you to be making that much money and paying no income tax. also, it is unfair to the rest of us hardworking, honest people who do pay taxes. I myself do childcare out of my home and we had to pay a lot in taxes this year because of it. but we are doing it the right way and not risking an audit flag.
ReplyDeleteregarding your employers, if these people do not value you enough to be paying into your social security, workers comp. disability insurance, etc. even the minimal amount, they don't sound like good people.
I would begin looking for another, more honest and professional family to work for.
just my two cents, and good luck to you...
I suspect that she's a liar (as opposed to the innocent she proclaims to be).
ReplyDeleteIf you were my sister I would suggest you place a phone call to an employment attorney.
Oh, and start lookin' for work. What scuzzy folks.
She probably wants to pay you less because of the taxes she now has to pay. Remind her that you will be having taxes taken out as well!
ReplyDeleteI am SOOOOO sick of hearing all the whining about people who take jobs under the table...You know everybody has a right to do what they want. Great thats your opinion that you need to be legal, pay your taxes...go collect your gold tipped wings and fly away..cause your an angel. I am soooo sick of paying taxes...yeah yeah yeah...its america, its part od life I get it...but it blows. I see nothing thrown my way for all the taxes I pay. My town runs out of salt in the winter, sends notices to me monthly about being fined by the EPA for not testing our drinking water...has every tom, dick and harry related to our sheriff working in the jail, yet no jobs there can be had if your not in the bloodline...and the sheriff wants us to pass a levy so he and all his family members can have a raise...Taxes...what????? Not to mention as an in home care provider in my state if I become disabled even though I have claimed my taxes all 3 years I have done this, I can't collect disability...nor the social security I pay into when I get old because it won't be there...Taxes??? In one week my husband makes 1200 on top and comes home with a check for 700....and yet...nothing to show for all the money they take!!! And great Bush throws us all a bone and hands out a stimulus check...wow..to bad many people who don't own bussiness don't realize that many taxes breaks we get were elimanited...which means less of a return, therefore with the stim.check we still are in the same boat as last year.....The goverment breaks all the promises they ever made...so if people wanna work under the table it's their D@MN CHOICE!!!
ReplyDeleteI'm a mom who has employed nannies. The woman is taking advantage of your inherent kindness. Previous posters have lots of good ideas. Personally, I would stick to your guns on the $14/hr. If she really needs you, she will pay it. She seems to be trying this because she thinks you will aquiesce. Though if you take this absolute route you need to be prepared for worst case scenario: escalation that you are out of a job. But you have to stand your ground or she will continue to chip away at your rights as an employee. If she does pay the money as agreed, I would also start looking for another job anyway. Anyone who is nickel-and-diming the person who is entrusted with their CHILDREN is not someone to be in business with. Good luck.
ReplyDelete2:27:
ReplyDeletetry to grow up.
You should count yourself lucky to be healthy and able to work. You should also just accept the fact that it is not "their business" if they don't want to pay taxes. Sorry you have so many issues with your home daycare and how much money your husband makes, but it is your choice to do home daycare.
I am the poster at 9:56 and I stand by my original opinion that people who engage in tax fraud (as I suspect you yourself are doing) are scum. we all have our problems. My husband doesn't make much more than yours and I have all the same tax issues you stated. However, I am counting myself lucky to be able to be home with my child rather than having her in daycare. It was our choice to do home childcare. Do I get tired and irritable sometimes having three other children here all day, 50 hours a week, invading our home? sure I do. But it is our choice.
You are wrong if you don't claim your income. The fact that the government may be trying to screw us in so many respects is irrelivant. that's just life, and if you're not paying taxes, you're leeching off all of us who are.
you are probably the same type who says "well it's ok that I smoke pot because it's no worse than drinking...I'm a great mom, a great tax-evading, pot-smoking mom! yay for me!!"
with all due respect, get a life, and try to be a grown-up and set a good example for your kids.
Hey 2:27
ReplyDeleteDon't listen to 5:58
I understand what your going thru. Its true!! We pay all this money in taxes and what do we get in return.
Yes, I know we all need to pay money into the system. But its getting to be too much. How can we survive? My husband now has to pay $8.00 to get into the city every day. Between that and the gas prices. And food bills!! I am still in shock that a head of lettuce can cost from $1.50-$2.00 or one lemon for a dollar. One lemon. Unbelievable. You can spend $100.00 on food and your refrigerator still looks empty.
And what about all the moms that have to work. A good daycare center in my town can start from $300.00-a week. If your only making $35-40k a year,most of your money is eaten up.
And what if you don't have health insurance? With the tax money it would be nice if they set some aside for the uninsured. Or better yet with all the money they charge for the tolls, etc. Why not use this money for lowcost daycares and free medical care
I think the unchecked gouging by our oil and pharmaceutical companies, via the prices they charge, rakes in huge profits at the the misery of their fellow citizens. They have what we need and seem to feel we will continue supporting these enormously wealthy profiteers in their sumptuous life styles simply because they have what we need.
ReplyDeleteso, eriks mom, you are saying that you think there is nothing wrong with not paying income tax?
ReplyDeleteyou sound like an idiot.
I didn't "get" that Eric's Mom condones not paying taxes. It sounds more like she has empathy for someone who feels they must take such a job due to this horrible economy. I can't help but wonder what happenedd to all the drivers who could not afford auto insurance and did without, causing other drivers to take up the slack financially by buying underinsured or uninsured coverage on their policies. With the increase in gas prices, how can they continue to drive? I guess more people will resort to welfare just because it would cost more to drive to work and buy auto insurance in additional to paying the high cost of fuel than their jobs would pay. Don't forget that in most parts of our country, there IS NO public transportation.
ReplyDelete5:58
ReplyDeleteI love how you assume I have children...because ...I do not. And in fact I am not healthy...I have a supersellar brain tumor located in my brain above my right eye...AND I WORK... if you had read what you protested I HAVE paid all my taxes for the 3 years I have done in home daycare. Thats where my beef lies...I PAY taxes yet IF I have to claim disability for my surgery I CANNOT collect disability because I am self employed...even though they can track 3 years of my wage. I met with the state about this..and I do not qualify. SO why do I pay taxes...so the goverment can support fellow friends of mine who don't work and have children and get all types of federal assistance...meanwhile they dont pay taxes because they don't work....now I work and cannot get help....SOrry but thats why I am not paying taxes next year....be pissed if you want, but that cash is going into a savings that will work as my disability when I have my surgery.
And I would like to know how me not paying my taxes leeches off of you? You dont provide money for my food clothes or house...unlike the millions on welfare who ARE leeching off of you because your buying their food, house and clothes......It will be you that I will think of next time I am at walmart and watch a family ahead of me seperate thier groceries into 2 orders ...one that goes on the state food card and the other that they have CASH for...you know the 4 gossip magazines, the 6 pack of BOTTLE beer, the literal guart of margarita mix and the 2 packs of malbrough (sp?) cigerattes....there's your leech the one you put food in their kids mouth while they stay home with them reading their gossip mag. cig in hand drinking a nice alcohol bev....and you worry about me???
Kiss my ....
Maybe I will quit working for my money...why support myself when you can do that for me 5:58??? Your taxes might just pay my next grocery bill...cause I mean thats what you want right...me on welfare with you supporting me??? Rather than me supporting myself??? Your so smart...
I'm not sure what your point is Mimi. You are supremely pissed off that self employed people don't qualify for disability pay, but you seem to blame everyone else for your CHOICE of being self employed. Why is it everyone's else's fault who pays taxes that you don't get what you feel you are entitled to? I don't work (I'm a SAHM), but my husband does, and we pay taxes. If I needed surgery, I could not qualify for disability, and he would have to stay home with our son, but what sort of benefit would cover HIS lost wages?
ReplyDeleteMedical insurance is a horrifying situation in this country, agreed, but are you saying you have to pay for a surgery entirely out of your own pocket? Do ypuo not qualify for any group plans that could be bought for your business? If you've been turned down for health coverage because of your preexisting condition, your situation is understandable, but if you and your husband have decided to simply not try to get any so as to save the money, a financial medical disaster is entirely predictable. Or are you just pissed because you have to take unopaid time off? Hate to break it to you but almost any woman working FT in the U.S. who has to take time off to have a baby is in your same boat and most of them don't whine and moan about it and try to justify not paying taxes because of it.
Oh, and as a business owner, why can't you stipulate in the families' contracts that you get a certain number of paid sick days a year? That would at least cover the actual day of your surgery and a few days of recovery.
ReplyDeleteHi I am a nanny in Park Slope. I get paid under the table which is making 550 dols per week. I live in Bed Stuy and have3 chidrens of myown. Since my boss's not does not claim me I can get medi caid for me self and my kids. We also qalify for wick, foodstamps and I am on list for section 8. That means I qalify but dont have it yet. Its a big list. Heres the part you will appreshiate. I take my 8 year old to the same doctor as my boss. The same dr has an office in park slope and near me. My boss's knows i see the same doctor but she never thinkss about how i pay for it or how i would pay for insurans for my family. there is no men in the picure. and if my boss did pay me on the books i wouldnt get ths stuff but maybe halth insurance for the kids but i would be able to get free childcre for my kids. after schools my 13 yrs olds taks cares of her brothers. so if you pay your nanny under the table just think about what she is really making because of it. how oculd i ever go back to making on the boosk when i get so much like this.thank you uncle sam.
ReplyDeletedisgusting. mimi, nanny in park slope, and anyone who works under the table, approves of people working under the table. you all disgust me.
ReplyDeleteyeah life is rough, deal with it.
we all have problems, medical issues, elderly parents who must be taken care of, just lost loved ones, cancer running rampant in the family, domestic problems, our kids have fatal blood coditions, we do home childcare. and some of us with all those things happening to us, in the midst of it all, we pay our taxes.
anyone who thinks they have it rough and does not, you are just trying to justify something you know is wrong.
2:41, if you could cheat the system just a little more and get something beyond a 4th grade education, maybe you would be able to stop living life as a blodd-sucking criminal. You are no better than all the people who sneak across the borders illegally and proceed to have 14 kids who all get free everything at the expense of law abiding tax paying productive members of society. (Yes I know, not all immigrants for into this category–I'm referring only to the ones who DO.) And your boss is an a$4hole for allowing you to break the law along with her. Too bad you couldn't have used some of that illegal income for birth control. Maybe your daughters will turn out smarter than you though.
ReplyDeleteSorry, meant to say FIT into this category.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I don't like it, I do NOT condone a person that doesn't pay their taxes. But where is the empathy people? I completely understand park slope nanny, however I think she best not be riding a high horse because of her actions! When you start feeling comfortable and smug, that is when you will get caught!
ReplyDeleteAs for mimi, I feel nothing but compassion for her. I can only imagine how awful it must feel being an upright citizen, and getting nothing in return for it.
If she must quit her taxes for a year or two just to make ends meet and get her surgery, then so be it. It would come from the government anyway if she were to somehow be able to quit and collect disability. Six in one, half a dozen of another -- what does it matter?
OP here!
ReplyDeleteJust talked to the mom and voiced my concern about the whole money issue once again. I told her that I was 100% that we had agreed to $14 per hour and that her husband had been paying me that amount since January.
First she was confused and that she remembered me asking for $15/hour and her offerering $12 and then meeting in the middle at $13. I then told her that she was the one who brought up $15 and after calculations told me that she couldn't afford it, but that she could pay $14. She was still questioning my statement, but finally said that if she said she'd pay me $14/ hour then she will pay that amount, even though she doesn't recall it. She definetely sounded anry. Made me feel kinda weird, as if I was lying to her to get more money. The only reason I can think of why she can't remember what we had agreed upon, is that at the same time I asked her for a raise 2 other employees also asked her and she maybe got things mixed up. She was also 9 months pregnant at the time and still working full-time and not getting sleep at night because of the baby moving so much. That could all be reasons, why she can't remember.
At least she will pay me what we had agreed upon!
You need to leave this job, she's just buying time with that statement. I bet you, they are going to replace you with a new person, pay them less than you too and give you notice.
ReplyDeleteYou really need to go.
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ReplyDeleteIt might possibly be very uncomfortable to continue working for someone who resents the price they must pay for your services, and you should consider this aspect carefully as well as all the repercussions that are likely to follow. While you are to be admired for your assertiveness, you must also read the writing on the wall, and pursue employment elsewhere, using the lessons you have learned from this experience. Good luck to you.
ReplyDeleteUggh why do people who have multiple household employees complain about the expense TO them? Obviously you have quite a bit of money if you have SEVERAL people working in your home (i.e. a housekeeper, nanny, and personal assistant)...
ReplyDeleteIf you can't "afford" to pay them all a living wage, and give raises after appropriate amounts of time, pay taxes, etc. then you cannot afford one or all of them and you should let them go with notice! Maybe it's time for her to start doing some stuff around the house herself... empty the dishwasher or do laundry or run errands or whatever it is that she is paying so many people to do that she can not not afford to fairly pay her childcare provider!
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ReplyDeleteOP your employer may be a little hormonal considering her recent pregnancy. I have always been great at math and was horrified to find that I was barely able to figure out the proper tip for a restaurant meals toward the end of my pregnancies. My elephant like memory also suffered similarly. Plus, if she just had a baby she is probably somewhat emotional and experiencing some mood swings.
ReplyDeleteMaybe I'm wrong...but maybe I'm right too. Why not give her a little time to gather her wits and then reevaluate.
You might keep your eye out for other jobs but give this one a chance if you otherwise enjoy it and the pay you are now receiving is acceptable for the area where you live.
Maybe she did really forget due to her circumstances at the time. At least she agreed to pay you the amount, but it is not good that she was angry about it. I guess it depends on how much you like this job. If it's not that great, I would definitely start looking for another job. If you really love the job and don't think you would be able to find anything better, I would stick it out. Good luck!
ReplyDeletemom,
ReplyDeletei think it's so strange how many people on this site find you intelligent and insightful. but I guess lots of people liked Hitler, too.
everything that comes out of your mouth just seems dumb to me.
bad advice. extremely bad advice. yes, we are hormonal during and after pregnancy. still not a valid excuse for employer's actions.
p.s. I'm not surprised you cannot figure out the right tip amount.
Watch out-- your jealousy and insecurity are showing.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous (no surprise) L-O-S-E-R.
oh I'm so hurt that you think I'm a loser! because nobody except someone who is jealous or insecure could possibly disagree with yours or moms opinion! :)
ReplyDeletehehehe
Have you ever considered branching off on your own and starting an "I hate mom*" (*and other regulars that people seem to enjoy)blog? You could fill your days writing useless drivel on your one woman vendetta against a total
ReplyDeletestranger(s)--totally unopposed! Please do and spare us all.
1. always have a contract in the future.
ReplyDelete2. never work under the table. it will come back to haunt you in some manner.
3. if your family isn't willing to pay you and take out taxes, you do not want to work for them.
it seems that this family is now becoming "cheap" since they will have to end up dishing out money due to your taxes and such. it seems as if it's too much trouble for them. and without any contract, i would be VERY leery of what they may try to pull.
i would take the little bit of lower pay for now since it will be legal and start looking for a job with a family that will work on a contract with you AND be legal.
anon 1:37..you go girl!! I quite agree..once you voice a difference of opinion on this site..it is all over! You will forever be attacked by the regulars for not patting them on the back and agreeing with them!!
ReplyDeleteIt is a tenth grade clique all over again!